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 39 2015-12-10T06:50:29  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: ping
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 46 2015-12-10T08:04:43  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr : yeah. Now here.
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 48 2015-12-10T08:06:16  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: re isolating "Bitcoin Core" to fewer places.. there's 8 instances in the .ui files; I could move those to the equivalent .cpp, but it would look not-so-nice in Designer; thoughts?
 49 2015-12-10T08:06:59  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: hmm.. we could place a "placeholder" in the .ui files and populate them over code?
 50 2015-12-10T08:07:10  <Luke-Jr> that would work
 51 2015-12-10T08:07:11  <jonasschnelli> Or let the "placeholder" be taken care over the translation files.
 52 2015-12-10T08:07:18  <Luke-Jr> ?
 53 2015-12-10T08:07:24  *** Guest1234 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 54 2015-12-10T08:07:30  <jonasschnelli> Na. Bad idea.
 55 2015-12-10T08:07:37  <jonasschnelli> Let's just populate it over code.
 56 2015-12-10T08:07:41  <jonasschnelli> with your new var
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 58 2015-12-10T08:08:07  <jonasschnelli> It is really a good idea to isolate the application name. Thanks for doing this!
 59 2015-12-10T08:08:29  <Luke-Jr> ok
 60 2015-12-10T08:09:17  <Luke-Jr> do you know if src/qt/res/bitcoin-qt-res.rc can use PRODUCT_NAME?
 61 2015-12-10T08:10:05  <Luke-Jr> it has includes, but it's not quite C++ O.o
 62 2015-12-10T08:10:52  <jonasschnelli> hmm... i think it can't
 63 2015-12-10T08:10:58  <jonasschnelli> Let me have a look
 64 2015-12-10T08:11:30  <jonasschnelli> In that file we have things like CLIENT_VERSION_MAJOR
 65 2015-12-10T08:11:36  <jonasschnelli> that seems after autoconf stuff?
 66 2015-12-10T08:11:43  <jonasschnelli> So.. should work i assume.
 67 2015-12-10T08:13:02  <Luke-Jr> I guess I can throw it through gitian to make sure
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 72 2015-12-10T08:21:26  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: yes. I think that would show if it works or not. If you push/update your PR, i can also kick my gitian-builder again.
 73 2015-12-10T08:24:11  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: ok, pushed the rc changes; not done with ui ones yet, but that presumably needs no testing
 74 2015-12-10T08:24:26  <Luke-Jr> (* not literally no testing obviously)
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 76 2015-12-10T08:26:02  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: okay. Restarted the build: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/pulls/7192/
 77 2015-12-10T08:38:35  * Luke-Jr :| "Could not connect to host bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch: SSL negotiation failed."
 78 2015-12-10T08:38:53  <jonasschnelli> ja. Known issue. :P
 79 2015-12-10T08:38:56  <Luke-Jr> <.<
 80 2015-12-10T08:39:12  <jonasschnelli> I extra bought a SSL cert,... but still seems to be not covered by common CAs!
 81 2015-12-10T08:39:21  <jonasschnelli> To hell with CAs!
 82 2015-12-10T08:39:43  * jonasschnelli needs to look at http://letsencrypt.org
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 84 2015-12-10T08:40:19  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: maybe you installed it wrong? usually I at least get the option to ignore..
 85 2015-12-10T08:45:48  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: i think the installation is okay: http://i.imgur.com/wVeQTTX.png
 86 2015-12-10T08:46:23  <jonasschnelli> i guess some operating systems don't have the "AddTrust External CA Root"
 87 2015-12-10T08:46:26  <Luke-Jr> I know nothing about installing SSL certs :/
 88 2015-12-10T08:46:37  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: your server should provide the CA root key, I would think?
 89 2015-12-10T08:46:41  <jonasschnelli> the problem: me neither!
 90 2015-12-10T08:47:04  <jonasschnelli> ah... maybe i need to add the CA to the apache.conf somewhere. right.
 91 2015-12-10T08:47:52  <jonasschnelli> However: At least you have a gitian sig with my signature... :)
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 93 2015-12-10T08:51:34  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: hm, sizeWarningLabel seems to have a precedent for placeholders in the .ui .. still think I should move them?
 94 2015-12-10T08:52:01  <Luke-Jr> gitian sig isn't useful when I can't even establish the connection :p
 95 2015-12-10T08:53:32  <jonasschnelli> sizeWarningLabel: what about using %1 for the application name and add the new var to tr().arg()?
 96 2015-12-10T08:54:36  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: makes sense. Maybe I should do that for all 8 instances?
 97 2015-12-10T08:55:04  <jonasschnelli> Yes. Makes sense probably. I just check if there is a preprocessor like thing for the .ui files...
 98 2015-12-10T09:06:10  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: i think placing it over a %1 var is the best option we have so far.
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104 2015-12-10T10:07:12  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: does contrib/macdeploy/DS_Store have some purpose being in git?
105 2015-12-10T10:07:41  <jonasschnelli> Yes... the DS_Store files defines the background and position of icon for the mac disk image.
106 2015-12-10T10:07:55  <jonasschnelli> I can take care of the renaming there....
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108 2015-12-10T10:18:18  <Luke-Jr> I can't.. easily. :p
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113 2015-12-10T10:54:45  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: do you know what the font is in background.png?
114 2015-12-10T10:58:35  <GitHub121> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/00b4b8d1c47a...5dc63ed1ca8a
115 2015-12-10T10:58:36  <GitHub121> bitcoin/master 9fc6ed6 Wladimir J. van der Laan: net: Fix sent reject messages for blocks and transactions...
116 2015-12-10T10:58:36  <GitHub121> bitcoin/master 2041190 Wladimir J. van der Laan: test: Add basic test for `reject` code...
117 2015-12-10T10:58:37  <GitHub121> bitcoin/master 5dc63ed Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7179...
118 2015-12-10T10:58:45  <GitHub67> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7179: net: Fix sent reject messages for blocks and transactions (master...2015_12_fix_reject_message) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7179
119 2015-12-10T11:11:15  <GitHub163> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to 0.12: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b2d7ada3727f...44fef99e666e
120 2015-12-10T11:11:15  <GitHub163> bitcoin/0.12 96e8d12 AlSzacrel: Coinselection prunes extraneous inputs from ApproximateBestSubset...
121 2015-12-10T11:11:16  <GitHub163> bitcoin/0.12 44fef99 Wladimir J. van der Laan: net: Fix sent reject messages for blocks and transactions...
122 2015-12-10T11:14:39  <Luke-Jr> (or anyone else..)
123 2015-12-10T11:29:51  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: looking for the font...
124 2015-12-10T11:30:35  <jonasschnelli> Helvetica Neue "Thin".
125 2015-12-10T11:31:07  <jonasschnelli> But don't tell me you want to add some imagemagick script for the background.png?
126 2015-12-10T11:31:18  <Luke-Jr> yes, why not?
127 2015-12-10T11:31:44  <Luke-Jr> at the very least, using a free format rather than Photoshop would be nice :p
128 2015-12-10T11:32:03  <jonasschnelli> Hah. Right. Agree....
129 2015-12-10T11:32:10  <jonasschnelli> Yes. Try it...
130 2015-12-10T11:32:27  <jonasschnelli> It could be, that the font looks crispy or the anti-aliasing is bad... but you need to try.
131 2015-12-10T11:32:41  <jonasschnelli> But don't make things to easy for altcoins... :)
132 2015-12-10T11:33:49  <jonasschnelli> Helvetica Neue is a font that requires licensing... *duck*
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134 2015-12-10T11:34:08  <Luke-Jr> :|
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136 2015-12-10T11:34:45  <jonasschnelli> But i guess there are opensource alternatives that look similar.
137 2015-12-10T11:35:05  <jonasschnelli> Helvetica Neue Thin is just so nice. I had to use it...
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140 2015-12-10T11:52:45  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: close enough? http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/bccore.svg
141 2015-12-10T12:01:32  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr : get a 403 forbidden
142 2015-12-10T12:02:05  <Luke-Jr> try now
143 2015-12-10T12:02:39  <jonasschnelli> Liiiitle bit different. But i could live with.
144 2015-12-10T12:02:45  <jonasschnelli> What font? Robosans?
145 2015-12-10T12:02:55  <jonasschnelli> Raleway,...
146 2015-12-10T12:04:06  * Luke-Jr now has to figure out how to get this to render the gradient right outside of a browser.. >_<
147 2015-12-10T12:05:40  <jonasschnelli> Are you sure it's a linear gradient? I think it's a circular
148 2015-12-10T12:05:57  <Luke-Jr> <linearGradient id="gradient" x1="0%" y1="0%" x2="100%" y2="100%">
149 2015-12-10T12:05:59  <jonasschnelli> no.. it's a linear.
150 2015-12-10T12:06:11  <jonasschnelli> (i mean in the original png pictures)
151 2015-12-10T12:06:14  <Luke-Jr> oh
152 2015-12-10T12:06:39  <jonasschnelli> But thanks for doing that!
153 2015-12-10T12:06:55  <jonasschnelli> Even if there are some differences. A SVG makes much more sense.
154 2015-12-10T12:10:17  <Luke-Jr> does the macdeploy stuff need to work outside gitian?
155 2015-12-10T12:14:03  <jonasschnelli> hmm... macdeploy stuff is not really used i guess.
156 2015-12-10T12:14:26  <jonasschnelli> I can't think of a use case where someone wants to build the mac dmg without gitian.
157 2015-12-10T12:14:36  <jonasschnelli> Also not sure if it really works
158 2015-12-10T12:14:46  <jonasschnelli> (nobody uses it, very likely to break)
159 2015-12-10T12:17:43  <Luke-Jr> cool, so I can just make the font ttf be an input? :P
160 2015-12-10T12:18:10  <Luke-Jr> (seems silly to include it in git just for this)
161 2015-12-10T12:23:36  <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr: I think creating the background.png could be a manual step/sciprt
162 2015-12-10T12:23:56  <jonasschnelli> otherwise run the script withing the make deploy target
163 2015-12-10T12:25:26  <Luke-Jr> sure, my point is getting the TTF into the gitian VM
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166 2015-12-10T12:48:35  <michagogo> Luke-Jr: depends package please
167 2015-12-10T12:48:55  <michagogo> The inputs/ dir shouldn't be used when it can be avoided
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190 2015-12-10T17:19:38  <wangchun> should multiple signrawtransaction runs to the same unsigned transaction return the same signed hex or not?
191 2015-12-10T17:20:32  <morcos> wangchun: i'm not sure, but i think it should in later versions of bitcoin core
192 2015-12-10T17:20:49  <wangchun> morcos: it has changed?
193 2015-12-10T17:21:04  <wangchun> before i remember they are different despite the same input
194 2015-12-10T17:21:16  <wangchun> now they are all same, is it safe?
195 2015-12-10T17:22:57  <morcos> wangchun: see PR #5227.  It looks like that went in for 0.10, which makes signing deterministic according to RFC6979
196 2015-12-10T17:24:08  <morcos> wumpus: suggested topics for todays meeting: 1)  BIP 68 questions - a) semantic change to assume MTP  b) implentation approach change to #7184
197 2015-12-10T17:24:41  <morcos> 2) mempool containing only txs valid for the next block : is this something it would make sense to relax in the future, under what constraints?
198 2015-12-10T17:49:47  <GitHub99> [bitcoin] SuriyaaKudoIsc opened pull request #7197: Set link from http:// to https:// (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7197
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200 2015-12-10T18:10:24  <morcos> wumpus: gmaxwell:  #4906 which removes extraneous inputs disturbs me a bit.  I see gmaxwell commented earlier on about some concerns, and it wasn't really clear to me how disproven those concerns were with the code that got merged.
201 2015-12-10T18:11:31  <morcos> there is not a lot of coherence around wallet logic and what our goals are, so its a bit concerning to have a change like this without realy understanding that its better
202 2015-12-10T18:12:06  <MarcoFalke> morcos, coin selection code is independent of MIN_CHANGE, at least in the scope of AproximateBestSubSet()
203 2015-12-10T18:12:14  <morcos> thats not to say i'm convinced it's worse, but just throwing it out there
204 2015-12-10T18:12:22  <MarcoFalke> If this was your concern
205 2015-12-10T18:12:53  <morcos> MarcoFalke: that PR is near the top of my list to review but what does that have to do with #4906?
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207 2015-12-10T18:13:45  <MarcoFalke> I was talking about https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4906#issuecomment-55669171
208 2015-12-10T18:13:53  <MarcoFalke> Did you as well?
209 2015-12-10T18:15:51  <morcos> yes i'm talking about that too
210 2015-12-10T18:15:54  <MarcoFalke> The discussion in this PR covered far more than the actual commit changed
211 2015-12-10T18:16:33  <morcos> yeah i suppose they are tied together a bit, in MIN_CHANGE and not removing extraneous things both serve the same purpose
212 2015-12-10T18:18:05  <MarcoFalke> You could still NACK 4906, though. And say it is preferred to keep some low value coins in the inputs to put downward pressure on the utxoset.
213 2015-12-10T18:18:40  <MarcoFalke> But then again the transactions are larger and user pay more fee, which is also not wanted.
214 2015-12-10T18:19:17  <wumpus> with regard to privacy it's better to include as little inputs as possible
215 2015-12-10T18:19:21  <morcos> 4906 is merged
216 2015-12-10T18:20:00  <wumpus> and also to generate smaller transactions where possible
217 2015-12-10T18:20:01  <morcos> wumpus: i was a bit confused by the sorting direction confusion, but if big inputs are removed first thats obviously better
218 2015-12-10T18:20:08  <MarcoFalke> I still think it's good to have it and focus on different approaches to reduce the utxoset
219 2015-12-10T18:20:29  <morcos> well gmaxwell's point was over the long haul it might be better to have larger txs and merge small inputs now rather than later
220 2015-12-10T18:20:38  <wumpus> I'm a bit doubtful about changing selection 'for the good of the utxo set'
221 2015-12-10T18:21:27  <morcos> ha, you mean not changing.
222 2015-12-10T18:21:38  <MarcoFalke> You'd need to make the selection algorithm work on more than just nValue of each coin
223 2015-12-10T18:21:46  <MarcoFalke> But I am planning to address this...
224 2015-12-10T18:21:49  <wumpus> (at least when it interferes with local concerns)
225 2015-12-10T18:22:00  <morcos> i don't think its just utxo set, i think its a question of whether its going to grind your wallet down into small inputs yourself which is bad for you
226 2015-12-10T18:22:28  <MarcoFalke> Are you referring to  6696 now?
227 2015-12-10T18:22:30  <morcos> like perhaps it would be better to remove at most one input
228 2015-12-10T18:22:41  <morcos> no i'm only referring to 4906
229 2015-12-10T18:24:21  <gmaxwell> wangchun: They are the same now, because we use derandomized DSA now, it's safe and has been this way since 0.10.
230 2015-12-10T18:24:23  <morcos> wumpus: mostly i think given the fragile and complicated state of wallet logic and the many competing goals, its probably preferrable to be conservative in merging small one-off changes of dubious benefit
231 2015-12-10T18:25:10  <morcos> i agree with you that perhaps something shoudl be done to avoid egregiously adding tons of small input txs that turn out to be easily removable
232 2015-12-10T18:25:17  <MarcoFalke> In most cases the diff does not affect the selected set at all.
233 2015-12-10T18:25:21  <morcos> but maybe that thing is a bit more nuanced than jsut removing them all
234 2015-12-10T18:26:10  <morcos> anyway, i'm not suggesting to revert, just trying to make sure its an area where we're particularly careful of unintended consequences.
235 2015-12-10T18:26:26  <MarcoFalke> I agree it was merged a bit too fast
236 2015-12-10T18:26:38  <wumpus> too fast?!?!
237 2015-12-10T18:26:41  <MarcoFalke> I haven't even had time to look at each commit
238 2015-12-10T18:26:48  <wumpus> it has been open since 2014
239 2015-12-10T18:26:51  <MarcoFalke> When he did the rebase
240 2015-12-10T18:27:02  <wumpus> has been the oldest pull for quite some while
241 2015-12-10T18:27:15  <MarcoFalke> Then two or three days wouldn't hurt ;)
242 2015-12-10T18:27:35  <wumpus> at last I prefer not including unnecessary commits, I admit other people may have different opinions, but that's the annoying thing about having one wallet implementation bound to bitcoin core
243 2015-12-10T18:27:42  <wumpus> commits->inputs
244 2015-12-10T18:28:03  <morcos> anyway, that's all i wanted to say.  on another note please see my topic suggestions above which i put in the wrong channel.
245 2015-12-10T18:28:37  <MarcoFalke> I was only referring to the "dirty diff" when saying "merged too fast"
246 2015-12-10T18:28:39  <wumpus> anyhow if people are serious about wanting it reverted I'll revert it
247 2015-12-10T18:29:19  <wumpus> but next time if a pull is open for more than a year and you disagree please NACK it
248 2015-12-10T18:29:24  <morcos> if gmaxwell doesn't chime in then just leave it i say.. will be more real world data to help build even better algorithms
249 2015-12-10T18:29:43  <wumpus> I checked the logic for correctness but assumed no one was strongly against it
250 2015-12-10T18:29:52  <wumpus> (because of how long it was open)
251 2015-12-10T18:30:18  <wumpus> may be better to close old pulls no one cares about unmerged, I don't know
252 2015-12-10T18:30:58  <morcos> it could be part of the weekly meeting, to suggest a few old pulls that either need new attention or to be closed, and people could look at them in the following week
253 2015-12-10T18:31:05  <morcos> if no action happens, they get closed
254 2015-12-10T18:31:13  <wumpus> sure
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257 2015-12-10T18:48:16  <wumpus> re: privacy, one concern has been that people have been sent small 'tracing' amounts on purpose, in the hope they will include it in a transaction. Removing unncecessary inputs makes this less likely. Of course, when it wouldn't link further inputs including them is less harmful.
258 2015-12-10T18:58:09  <gmaxwell> wumpus: to prevent that we should be selecting by link-group, and adding all the coins in a link-group whenever we spend.
259 2015-12-10T18:58:16  <morcos> wumpus: oh thx for mentioning that, i've never understood its value, is that something that is supposed to help pierce the obfuscation of coinswap or join or what have you?
260 2015-12-10T18:58:23  <morcos> otherwise i don't understand its purpose
261 2015-12-10T18:59:15  <gmaxwell> morcos: people pay small amounts to random addresses that have been spent from completely; so that when they spend from other address in the future, they will pick up the small amounts, and then show common ownership of the new address and the only one.
262 2015-12-10T18:59:29  <wumpus> morcos: well you send a small amount to an address someone gives you - they'll link it with other coins when they send
263 2015-12-10T19:00:02  <morcos> what gmaxwell said about a spent address makes sense
264 2015-12-10T19:00:07  <wumpus> morcos: which reveals some outputs belonging to theirw allet
265 2015-12-10T19:00:14  <morcos> but otherwise why not just watch existing ocins in the address
266 2015-12-10T19:00:22  <wumpus> there may be none
267 2015-12-10T19:00:26  <gmaxwell> E.g. you want to know who owns 1apple but can find nothing, 1apple has no coins assigned. You keep paying 1apple 0.00001 BTC whenever it runs out of coins, in the hopes that it gets spent at the same time as another address you can find out something about.
268 2015-12-10T19:00:49  <gmaxwell> also the more small coins the more likely linkage happens.
269 2015-12-10T19:01:02  <morcos> yeah, ok.. yeah thats what sdaftuar just explained to me as well
270 2015-12-10T19:01:07  <morcos> sigh.. people
271 2015-12-10T19:01:20  <gmaxwell> the whole coinselector in bitcoin core appears to have been written with a strong assumption that an address isn't used more than once. :(
272 2015-12-10T19:01:21  <sdaftuar> meeting time?
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294 2015-12-10T22:21:16  <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: any easy way you could test a modified DS_Store file?
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