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  52016-05-26T00:31:44  <midnightmagic> wumpus: hello, is there a chance the payment protocol is going to go away?
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 182016-05-26T01:18:38  <luke-jr> midnightmagic: probably more likely if someone takes the time to replace it with a better one? ;)
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 322016-05-26T02:41:25  <midnightmagic> :-o
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 362016-05-26T03:08:31  <shesek> anyone read Aviv Zohar's new paper? http://arxiv.org/abs/1605.07524 "Hijacking Bitcoin: Large-scale Network Attacks on Cryptocurrencies"
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 552016-05-26T05:23:11  <GitHub60> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/47a7cfb0aa24...eb2f6f72db5b
 562016-05-26T05:23:11  <GitHub60> bitcoin/master 02ce2a3 Pavel Vasin: qt: askpassphrasedialog: Clear pass fields on accept...
 572016-05-26T05:23:12  <GitHub60> bitcoin/master eb2f6f7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8073: qt: askpassphrasedialog: Clear pass fields on accept...
 582016-05-26T05:23:21  <GitHub41> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8073: qt: askpassphrasedialog: Clear pass fields on accept (master...patch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8073
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 602016-05-26T05:24:56  <GitHub81> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/eb2f6f72db5b...e3a820751f11
 612016-05-26T05:24:56  <GitHub81> bitcoin/master 90963e5 fanquake: [doc] Add basic git squash example
 622016-05-26T05:24:57  <GitHub81> bitcoin/master e3a8207 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8034: [doc][trivial] Add basic git squash workflow [skip ci]...
 632016-05-26T05:25:06  <GitHub148> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8034: [doc][trivial] Add basic git squash workflow [skip ci] (master...contrib-squash) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8034
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 662016-05-26T05:33:12  <GitHub108> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e3a820751f11...6fc6325f77ee
 672016-05-26T05:33:12  <GitHub108> bitcoin/master a4d5855 21E14: CCoinsViewErrorCatcher raison-d-etre
 682016-05-26T05:33:13  <GitHub108> bitcoin/master 6fc6325 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8015: CCoinsViewErrorCatcher raison-d-etre...
 692016-05-26T05:33:17  <GitHub90> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8015: CCoinsViewErrorCatcher raison-d-etre (master...wrapper) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8015
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 822016-05-26T06:42:15  <assder> Question: Are unspendable outputs (such as OP_RETURN outputs) stored in the UTXO set? Will pruned nodes have to store them?
 832016-05-26T06:43:27  <sipa> they are not stored in the utxo set, but still occupy blockchain space
 842016-05-26T06:43:46  <sipa> pruned nodes store them as long as they're in recent history
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 872016-05-26T06:49:58  <assder> sipa: thanks
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 952016-05-26T07:36:42  <jtimon> so, phantomcircuit, can we decide with respect to #8077 vs #7985 vs #7947 before deciding about #8087 vs #7310 (or whatever number my next attempt at a "moveonly + doc + trivial fixes" gets)?
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1692016-05-26T13:02:36  <GitHub106> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6fc6325f77ee...c028c7b7557d
1702016-05-26T13:02:37  <GitHub106> bitcoin/master 581ddff Wladimir J. van der Laan: net: Add fRelayTxes flag...
1712016-05-26T13:02:37  <GitHub106> bitcoin/master 1ab1dc3 Wladimir J. van der Laan: rpc: Add `relaytxes` flag to `getnetworkinfo`...
1722016-05-26T13:02:38  <GitHub106> bitcoin/master c028c7b Pieter Wuille: Merge #8049: Expose information on whether transaction relay is enabled in `getnetwork`...
1732016-05-26T13:02:46  <GitHub121> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #8049: Expose information on whether transaction relay is enabled in `getnetwork` (master...2016_05_rpc_relaytxes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8049
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2022016-05-26T14:36:57  <CodeShark> sipa: wumpus: We should disable mining by default on nonrelease branches as discussed earlier. I started working on this idea: https://github.com/CodeShark/bitcoin/commit/34ec9e8af22f40abdcc49c32e7e153a050613ee1
2032016-05-26T14:37:38  <CodeShark> the IsDevelopmentBranch() method should check whether it is a release branch or not rather than just whether it's the master branch
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2052016-05-26T14:38:44  <CodeShark> is there a simple way we can determine this?
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2172016-05-26T15:02:34  <luke-jr> CodeShark: IMO mining is the least problematic use of dev branches..
2182016-05-26T15:02:47  <luke-jr> miners are used to patching and overriding stuff anyway
2192016-05-26T15:03:39  <luke-jr> might make more sense to disable wallet and/or bloom
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2212016-05-26T15:04:21  <CodeShark> luke-jr: the goal is to make it safer to merge consensus changes before releasing
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2232016-05-26T15:04:35  <CodeShark> if the changes are merged into master they will get more tested
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2342016-05-26T15:39:47  <GitHub162> [bitcoin] CodeShark opened pull request #8101: Disable mining on nonrelease branches. (master...disable_mining_on_nonrelease_branches) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8101
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2362016-05-26T15:52:10  <sipa> sdaftuar: what type is 'f' in the deserialize methods in mininode?
2372016-05-26T15:52:21  <sipa> or more specifically, can i test whether there are more bytes to read?
2382016-05-26T15:52:33  <sdaftuar> f?
2392016-05-26T15:52:41  <sdaftuar> oph
2402016-05-26T15:53:05  <sipa> i'm adding a test that fRelayTxes in version is correct (because it's currently broken in master, and no test detected it)
2412016-05-26T15:53:14  <sipa> but fRelayTxes is currently not deserialized
2422016-05-26T15:53:21  <sipa> and it's optional per bip37
2432016-05-26T15:53:25  <sdaftuar> ah ok
2442016-05-26T15:54:14  <sdaftuar> i assume it's possible to tell if there are more bytes to read but i don't know how off the top of my head.  f is a BytesIO i think?
2452016-05-26T15:54:39  <sipa> i am going to guess it has a eof() method
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2482016-05-26T16:01:39  <sdaftuar> doesn't seem to?  docs i'm reading suggest you just call read() and see if you don't get anything back
2492016-05-26T16:01:58  <sipa> yup
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2552016-05-26T16:18:23  * sipa curses extensively at python
2562016-05-26T16:18:40  <btcdrak> sipa: it needs feeding.
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2642016-05-26T16:41:37  <CodeShark> sipa: throw a mouse at it
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2662016-05-26T16:43:16  <sipa> sdaftuar: so the bug is that a connecting node currently never sets fRelayTxes... and it seems we have not a single test for that
2672016-05-26T16:43:31  <sipa> sdaftuar: the p2p tests only connect a testnode to a real node, and not the other way around
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2692016-05-26T16:47:43  <GitHub39> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #8102: Bugfix: use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode in version send (master...oopsrelay) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8102
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2712016-05-26T16:49:55  <sipa> sdaftuar: is that possible, or am i missing an extra condition that makes this harder to test?
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2862016-05-26T17:21:09  <sdaftuar> sipa: you're right that in the testing framework, testnodes connect out to real nodes and not the other way around.
2872016-05-26T17:21:14  <sdaftuar> i'm taking a look at 8102
2882016-05-26T17:22:39  <btcdrak> sdaftuar: is the list of cfpf related pulls #7600, #7960 and #7292? am i missing any?
2892016-05-26T17:23:35  <sdaftuar> btcdrak: just #7600 and #7598.  7598 is a refactor of CreateNewBlock; 7600 builds off it
2902016-05-26T17:27:33  <sdaftuar> sipa: i'm baffled that this breakage wasn't caught in our existing RPC tests.  surely anywhere we call sync_mempools() we would have seen a test failure?
2912016-05-26T17:29:49  <sipa> sdaftuar: perhaps there are more requirements before this triggers
2922016-05-26T17:30:37  <sipa> i saw this bug when syncing over thr internet... perhaps the rpc tests run fast enough
2932016-05-26T17:30:50  <sipa> it is related to responses to version messages
2942016-05-26T17:31:57  <wumpus> I'm not going to be able to attend the meeting today probably
2952016-05-26T17:32:12  *** ghounds has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
2962016-05-26T17:33:28  <sipa> wumpus: ok
2972016-05-26T17:35:08  *** Cory has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
2982016-05-26T17:37:42  <sdaftuar> sipa: aha, we do have a travis issue.
2992016-05-26T17:38:17  <sdaftuar> check this out: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/129694378
3002016-05-26T17:38:44  <sdaftuar> looks like the tests hung, and then at some much later point the instance shut down(!)
3012016-05-26T17:38:47  <sdaftuar> and no failure was reported
3022016-05-26T17:40:04  <sipa> ugh
3032016-05-26T17:41:09  <sdaftuar> i've been meaning to fix up the sync_() functions in util.py to be more robust for a while now.  we can do that at the least.
3042016-05-26T17:41:27  <sdaftuar> separately we should also figure out what's going on with travis here
3052016-05-26T17:42:13  *** PaulCape_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3062016-05-26T17:44:12  <btcdrak> sipa: could you please restart the two error jobs on https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/builds/133144138
3072016-05-26T17:45:01  <sipa> will do when i get home in 15 min
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3112016-05-26T18:03:06  <sipa> btcdrak: won't work, master is broken
3122016-05-26T18:03:23  <btcdrak> oh
3132016-05-26T18:03:28  <sipa> merging 8102 now
3142016-05-26T18:03:31  <sdaftuar> sipa:
3152016-05-26T18:03:39  <sdaftuar> 8102, you default fRelayTxes to false in mininode
3162016-05-26T18:03:41  <sdaftuar> shouldn't that be true?
3172016-05-26T18:03:52  <sipa> sdaftuar: good point!
3182016-05-26T18:03:55  <sdaftuar> otherwise p2p tests that test receiving tx inv's would break
3192016-05-26T18:04:00  <sdaftuar> we might not have any though (yet)
3202016-05-26T18:04:00  <sipa> let me merge that without the mininode changes
3212016-05-26T18:04:04  <sdaftuar> ok sounds good
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3252016-05-26T18:15:36  <GitHub132> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c028c7b7557d...425278d17bd0
3262016-05-26T18:15:36  <GitHub132> bitcoin/master 52b02ec Pieter Wuille: Use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode one
3272016-05-26T18:15:37  <GitHub132> bitcoin/master 425278d Pieter Wuille: Merge #8102: Bugfix: use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode in version send...
3282016-05-26T18:15:45  <GitHub160> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #8102: Bugfix: use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode in version send (master...oopsrelay) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8102
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3402016-05-26T18:41:07  <GitHub124> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #8104: Tests: add timeout to sync_blocks() and sync_mempools() (master...improve-rpc-sync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8104
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3482016-05-26T19:00:28  <sipa> meetink?
3492016-05-26T19:02:10  <jonasschnelli> Yes.
3502016-05-26T19:03:04  <CodeShark> let's do it
3512016-05-26T19:03:12  <sipa> waiting for some more people
3522016-05-26T19:03:23  * btcdrak raises hand
3532016-05-26T19:03:25  <cfields_> here
3542016-05-26T19:04:48  <paveljanik> here
3552016-05-26T19:05:12  <cfields_> sipa: interestingly: on the net refactor branch I'm rebasing, it magically quit working after rebasing to (this morning's) master. after nabbing your fix, all is good now
3562016-05-26T19:05:34  <sdaftuar> here
3572016-05-26T19:05:45  <sipa> kanzure, sdaftuar, luke-jr, morcos, jl2012, gmaxwell, nickler, instagibbs, jtimon, petertodd: ping
3582016-05-26T19:05:49  <sipa> !beginmeeting
3592016-05-26T19:05:50  <gribble> Error: "beginmeeting" is not a valid command.
3602016-05-26T19:05:53  <sipa> !meetingbegin
3612016-05-26T19:05:53  <gribble> Error: "meetingbegin" is not a valid command.
3622016-05-26T19:05:56  <sipa> !meetingstart
3632016-05-26T19:05:56  <gribble> Error: "meetingstart" is not a valid command.
3642016-05-26T19:05:57  <sdaftuar> startmeeting i think?
3652016-05-26T19:06:00  <btcdrak> # startmeeting
3662016-05-26T19:06:00  <sipa> !startmeeting
3672016-05-26T19:06:01  <gribble> Error: "startmeeting" is not a valid command.
3682016-05-26T19:06:03  <btcdrak> without the space
3692016-05-26T19:06:07  <sipa> #startmeeting
3702016-05-26T19:06:07  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu May 26 19:06:07 2016 UTC.  The chair is sipa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
3712016-05-26T19:06:07  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
3722016-05-26T19:06:11  <sipa> yay
3732016-05-26T19:06:13  <sipa> topics?
3742016-05-26T19:06:16  <kanzure> zurich transcript coming soon
3752016-05-26T19:06:17  <btcdrak> sipa was wardialing
3762016-05-26T19:06:23  *** ghounds has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3772016-05-26T19:06:32  <btcdrak> kanzure: I can push it now if you like
3782016-05-26T19:06:35  <kanzure> we can copy-paste topics from zurich for follow-up
3792016-05-26T19:06:40  <kanzure> btcdrak: sure let's do that
3802016-05-26T19:07:12  <sipa> i have a topic: segwit vs netrefactor
3812016-05-26T19:07:27  <kanzure> i believe the conclusion from zurich was that sipa promised everyone tree sigs and poly sigs within 4 days
3822016-05-26T19:07:40  <btcdrak> kanzure: zurich meeting notes https://bitcoincore.org/logs/2016-05-zurich-meeting-notes.txt
3832016-05-26T19:08:02  <kanzure> ouch no anchor links. well, okay.
3842016-05-26T19:08:31  <kanzure> btw i heard from someone that they were surprised that libconsensus refactoring was considered lower priority than segwit
3852016-05-26T19:08:37  <kanzure> just some interesting feedback.
3862016-05-26T19:08:42  <btcdrak> kanzure: could be arranged.
3872016-05-26T19:08:51  <btcdrak> sipa: ack
3882016-05-26T19:09:16  <cfields_> sipa: sure. Though i suspect the (my, anyway) answer will be "segwit comes first, hands-down"
3892016-05-26T19:09:22  <sipa> cfields_: ok, settled :)
3902016-05-26T19:09:44  <sipa> kanzure: good feedback... i think it's mostly that segwit has much more buy-in as a roadmap (but i'm biased here)
3912016-05-26T19:09:45  <btcdrak> was that even a question. segwit first.
3922016-05-26T19:10:15  <cfields_> sipa: for sure. I'm working on it in parallel, but I have no desire to slow segwit down for it in any way
3932016-05-26T19:10:21  <kanzure> right, right. it's more of a long-term note--- but eventually we will have to bite the bullet and absorb the pain of the refactor impacting everyone's branches.
3942016-05-26T19:10:21  <CodeShark> libconsensus is strategically at least as important as segwit - but the coordination issues required are considerable
3952016-05-26T19:10:32  <wumpus> what do segwit and net refactor compete on?
3962016-05-26T19:10:37  <sipa> wumpus: code :)
3972016-05-26T19:10:56  <wumpus> which parts? does net refactor give you significantly more trouble rebasing?
3982016-05-26T19:10:59  <CodeShark> also, libconsensus isn't as glitsy :)
3992016-05-26T19:11:01  <sipa> probably not
4002016-05-26T19:11:11  <kanzure> what is the status of net refactor things?
4012016-05-26T19:11:28  <btcdrak> where does compact blocks fit in?
4022016-05-26T19:11:30  <sipa> libconsensus refactoring worked well in the 0.10 window, because it seemed there was a clear goal (getting script exposed) and a clear way to do it... further refactors seem to be more one-person shows (not that i blame those people, but if we want them to happen, i think we'll need to agree on a plan beforehand)
4032016-05-26T19:11:41  <wumpus> well I can understand how libconsensus conflicts with segwit
4042016-05-26T19:11:57  <kanzure> wasn't aware of previous concerns about libconsensus plan synchronization, good to know
4052016-05-26T19:12:01  <sipa> libconsensus conflicts with everything :)
4062016-05-26T19:12:18  <wumpus> there's also some network changes for segwit, but they're at a message level
4072016-05-26T19:12:29  <wumpus> whereas cfields' network refactor is at a lower level
4082016-05-26T19:12:40  <sipa> yeah, network refactor probably hurts compact blocks more than it hurts segwit
4092016-05-26T19:12:40  <cfields_> kanzure: see #8085. I addressed wumpus's notes from Zurich, but that made it rough to read. I'm working on another version of the same thing with a clean history, done by tomorrow for sure
4102016-05-26T19:12:47  <CodeShark> as much as it pains me to sacrifice on architecture, I think holding up segwit right now is much more costly in terms of the public's goodwill
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4122016-05-26T19:13:25  *** fengling has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4132016-05-26T19:13:31  <jcorgan> +1
4142016-05-26T19:13:39  <wumpus> I agree progress in the protocol is more important, I think segwit even affects the proposed libconsensus API
4152016-05-26T19:13:52  <sipa> worse, it affects the current libconsensus API :)
4162016-05-26T19:14:21  <sipa> ok, other topics?
4172016-05-26T19:14:37  <sipa> i have a few more
4182016-05-26T19:14:55  <sipa> CPFP will also need to go in at some point, and also conflicts with many in-flight things
4192016-05-26T19:15:06  <sipa> and a whole range of relay improvement
4202016-05-26T19:15:08  <wumpus> libconsensus feels more like some checkbox people want checked than something that will actually have a lot of users but feel free to prove me wrong
4212016-05-26T19:15:29  <sdaftuar> if we think segwit will be backported to 0.12, then probably CPFP should wait until afterward?
4222016-05-26T19:15:35  <wumpus> it should be done but unless someone has a clear example of an application using it and contributes to it it has not much priority
4232016-05-26T19:15:41  <sipa> when i talk about libconsensus i mean "abstracting out consensus logic"... not so much an actual API exposure
4242016-05-26T19:15:42  <sdaftuar> to avoid dealing with the CNB refactor in 0.12
4252016-05-26T19:16:27  *** molz has quit IRC
4262016-05-26T19:16:35  <wumpus> sipa: that's what I mean right, I'm not sure other people talkinga bout it mean the same thing
4272016-05-26T19:16:50  <wumpus> at some point it becomes just a buzzword... :)
4282016-05-26T19:16:51  <sipa> maybe i should formulate the question this way: segwit, compact blocks, CPFP... all for 0.13?
4292016-05-26T19:16:59  <wumpus> that's a bit much
4302016-05-26T19:17:18  <wumpus> for just before the feature freeze
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4322016-05-26T19:17:42  <sdaftuar> sipa: yes!
4332016-05-26T19:17:50  <wumpus> (2016-06-16)
4342016-05-26T19:18:13  <sipa> i would very much like to have at least compact blocks in before segwit, to alleviate the extra relay latency
4352016-05-26T19:18:21  <wumpus> I don't think we should make a habit of merging such big things just before a release
4362016-05-26T19:18:48  <sdaftuar> segwit is clearly the heaviest lift here to review...  i think the otherw two things can be knocked out very quickly
4372016-05-26T19:18:55  <wumpus> segwit is obvious
4382016-05-26T19:19:07  <sdaftuar> but that's the thing where it's not clear to me if it'll be sufficiently reviewed by 6/16
4392016-05-26T19:19:17  <wumpus> yes that'st he thing what counts
4402016-05-26T19:19:46  <btcdrak> compact blocks would be good in 0.13
4412016-05-26T19:19:57  <wumpus> segwit should be merged soon so that we can do 0.12.1 before 0.13
4422016-05-26T19:20:03  <CodeShark> on that topic...
4432016-05-26T19:20:30  <sipa> we can merge segwit with no softfork defined for it on mainnet
4442016-05-26T19:20:51  <wumpus> we've already moved the release for 0.13 with a month so I'd really like to not move it again
4452016-05-26T19:20:53  <sdaftuar> sipa: interesting!  i hadn't considered that
4462016-05-26T19:20:57  <CodeShark> sipa: indeed!
4472016-05-26T19:21:14  <CodeShark> and even once we do add the segwit softfork we can disable mining on it until release
4482016-05-26T19:21:15  <sipa> #idea merge segwit without defined softfork
4492016-05-26T19:21:35  <cfields_> hmm
4502016-05-26T19:22:12  <wumpus> sure
4512016-05-26T19:22:22  <sdaftuar> i guess the thing to worry about is if we have testing gaps, things might break without anyone noticing?
4522016-05-26T19:22:23  <wumpus> just to have the code in?
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4542016-05-26T19:22:30  <luke-jr> need vb gbt before segwit tho..? maybe not if left undefined, unsure
4552016-05-26T19:22:37  <sipa> luke-jr: yup
4562016-05-26T19:22:42  <sipa> luke-jr: will look at that
4572016-05-26T19:23:13  <wumpus> sdaftuar: well the tests need to cover it
4582016-05-26T19:23:30  <wumpus> if there's a testing gap it should not be merged in any case
4592016-05-26T19:23:31  <sipa> all the segwit tests use regtest
4602016-05-26T19:23:31  *** davec has quit IRC
4612016-05-26T19:23:37  <wumpus> right
4622016-05-26T19:23:52  <wumpus> for that it doesn't matter whether a softfork is defined on mainnet
4632016-05-26T19:24:01  <sipa> indeed
4642016-05-26T19:24:11  <sipa> and for script/tx tests, the softfork is not relevant
4652016-05-26T19:24:16  <luke-jr> sipa: should I look into merging vbgbt w segwit?
4662016-05-26T19:24:19  <achow101> what benefit would there be to not define the softfork when mergin segwit
4672016-05-26T19:24:48  <sipa> achow101: segwit conflicts with a lot of code, having it in would simplify further development on the branch
4682016-05-26T19:24:51  <btcdrak> sipa: we should merge without mainnet, because it will allow people to test on testnet now (it's already been activated in testnet).
4692016-05-26T19:24:53  <wumpus> achow101: to have the code in, so that development happens on top
4702016-05-26T19:25:08  <wumpus> achow101: and so that people acn use it on the regtest/testnet network
4712016-05-26T19:25:12  <sipa> btcdrak: another good reason, indeed
4722016-05-26T19:25:27  <wumpus> btw: should we keep the segnet?
4732016-05-26T19:25:35  <sipa> no, i want to drop it
4742016-05-26T19:25:38  <btcdrak> wumpus: no segnet should go
4752016-05-26T19:25:42  <sipa> unless there is a good reason to keep it
4762016-05-26T19:25:43  <wumpus> ok
4772016-05-26T19:25:54  <wumpus> (no opinion either way just wondering whether that's supposed to end up in master)
4782016-05-26T19:26:12  <btcdrak> sipa: there's no need to drop it in merge to master right away imo, but certainly before we add parameters to mainnet.
4792016-05-26T19:26:14  <wumpus> yes as it has been triggered on testnet
4802016-05-26T19:26:39  <sipa> i will prioritize the testnet dns seed filtering, vb/gbt changes, and doing another batch
4812016-05-26T19:26:49  <kanzure> merging segwit without activation might lessen the pressure on reviewers
4822016-05-26T19:26:54  <kanzure> which might be a negative side effect
4832016-05-26T19:26:59  <sdaftuar> kanzure: agree
4842016-05-26T19:27:32  <wumpus> anyhow if the segnet network helps testing I don't have problems with temporarily having it in master, as long as it is clearly communicated that people shouldn't rely on it
4852016-05-26T19:27:54  <sipa> i wasn't planning on including it in master
4862016-05-26T19:28:09  <wumpus> well playing psychological meta-tricks on reviewers doesn't play much of a role imo, we should do whatever is practical
4872016-05-26T19:28:29  *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC
4882016-05-26T19:28:42  <wumpus> if merging segwit helps make progress on other fronts so that 0.13 can be a better release
4892016-05-26T19:28:44  <wumpus> we should do that
4902016-05-26T19:29:10  <wumpus> also having it merged in master usually means it gets more testing and review, not less
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4922016-05-26T19:29:12  <sipa> i'll do one more batch, and if there are some ACKs then, i'll squash
4932016-05-26T19:29:30  <kanzure> so it would be active in testnet segnet and regtest when merged, but not mainnet, and letting others maintain segwit for other 0.13 changes?
4942016-05-26T19:29:49  <sipa> kanzure: don't understand the last part
4952016-05-26T19:30:04  <sipa> if there are changes necessary to the code post-merge but pre-release, they can just go in master
4962016-05-26T19:30:04  <kanzure> the ideal of merging soon is to let others maintain segwit for possibly conflicting 0.13 changes?
4972016-05-26T19:30:20  <wumpus> there's not *that* much time left for 0.13, it's good to decide now what we still want to have in and focus on that
4982016-05-26T19:30:31  <sipa> kanzure: to let others rebase their own patches on top
4992016-05-26T19:30:45  <wumpus> well not 'maintain segwit' but work on top, yes
5002016-05-26T19:30:57  <btcdrak> kanzure: the only difference is not having activation params on mainnet. it would really help by not holding up other work.
5012016-05-26T19:31:23  <sdaftuar> sipa: would you still plan to backport to 0.12?
5022016-05-26T19:31:30  <sipa> sdaftuar: yes, but after merge in master
5032016-05-26T19:31:40  <sipa> (but before defining activation)
5042016-05-26T19:31:42  <sdaftuar> ok
5052016-05-26T19:32:05  <sipa> ok, other topics?
5062016-05-26T19:32:10  <gmaxwell> The non-merged status of segwit has kinda been holding up other work, unfortunately.
5072016-05-26T19:32:14  *** Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5082016-05-26T19:32:46  <kanzure> maybe bip151 things?
5092016-05-26T19:33:11  <sipa> status bip151: waiting for implementation
5102016-05-26T19:33:13  <sipa> i'd say :)
5112016-05-26T19:33:19  <instagibbs> sdaftuar, is that list of testing gaps public somewhere?
5122016-05-26T19:33:22  <kanzure> ok
5132016-05-26T19:33:24  <instagibbs> (sorry, backtracking)
5142016-05-26T19:33:39  <kanzure> https://gist.github.com/sdaftuar/0469a2583f33989cf8196d2f26d99114
5152016-05-26T19:33:48  <sdaftuar> instagibbs: yes, now :)
5162016-05-26T19:34:07  <luke-jr> lol
5172016-05-26T19:34:15  <instagibbs> not really my meaning, but ok ;P
5182016-05-26T19:34:40  <petertodd> re: bip151, I mentioned it today at the conf I was at to some cryptographers, and their response to it not being an off the shelf standard was horror :) might be a pr issue
5192016-05-26T19:35:02  <sipa> petertodd: it's openssh's chacha20-poly1305 exactly
5202016-05-26T19:35:07  <kanzure> were they horrified about the current implementation at all
5212016-05-26T19:35:38  <petertodd> sipa: good, we should make that 110% clear then
5222016-05-26T19:35:39  <sipa> petertodd: maybe that needs to be made more clear
5232016-05-26T19:35:48  <gmaxwell> it's pretty clear in the BIP now, I thought.
5242016-05-26T19:35:57  <gmaxwell> maybe it could be moved up to the top.
5252016-05-26T19:36:16  <petertodd> gmaxwell: yeah, move it to the top - I just looked at it and didn't see that
5262016-05-26T19:36:28  *** frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5272016-05-26T19:36:45  <sipa> #action jonasschnelli make it more clean that bip151 uses openssh's chacha20-poly1305 standard
5282016-05-26T19:36:46  <btcdrak> ok make that an action point for the logs
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5302016-05-26T19:36:56  <sipa> jinx
5312016-05-26T19:37:27  <petertodd> make it clear that the standard *describes* a subset of openssh's standard, and that bitcoin's use of it is identical and can reuse the existing code
5322016-05-26T19:37:39  <kanzure> pus or minus licensing issues?
5332016-05-26T19:37:43  <kanzure> *plus
5342016-05-26T19:38:16  <jonasschnelli> Ack. Will do
5352016-05-26T19:38:26  <petertodd> kanzure: https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/blob/05855bf2ce7d5cd0a6db18bc0b4214ed5ef7516d/LICENCE <- looks like BSD at least, no GPL code
5362016-05-26T19:38:47  <sipa> the actual cipher is public domain code
5372016-05-26T19:38:51  <sipa> the glue into openssh is BSD
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5402016-05-26T19:41:18  <kanzure> petertodd: thanks for checking
5412016-05-26T19:42:09  <sipa> anything else?
5422016-05-26T19:42:18  <sipa> (mental note: type #topic next time)
5432016-05-26T19:42:41  <btcdrak> no just #topic
5442016-05-26T19:42:46  <kanzure> child-pays-for-parent?
5452016-05-26T19:43:07  <kanzure> and wasn't there something activating soon that we were looking at
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5472016-05-26T19:43:28  <sdaftuar> happy to talk about CPFP, are there any questions?
5482016-05-26T19:43:31  *** moli has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5492016-05-26T19:43:33  <sipa> #topic child pay for parent
5502016-05-26T19:44:05  <sipa> i think the blocker is just the refactor for CNB
5512016-05-26T19:44:15  <sipa> which will conflict with segwit
5522016-05-26T19:44:40  <sdaftuar> right
5532016-05-26T19:45:00  <luke-jr> so maybe target 0.14
5542016-05-26T19:45:04  <luke-jr> ?
5552016-05-26T19:45:23  <sipa> at the latest, i'd say
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5572016-05-26T19:45:30  <kanzure> oh i forgot about the testing infrastructure stuff for sdaftuar
5582016-05-26T19:45:35  <kanzure> sdaftuar: something i mentioned in person a few days ago, https://www.terraform.io/
5592016-05-26T19:45:37  <sipa> but yes, it may miss 0.13
5602016-05-26T19:45:37  <sdaftuar> i will be sad if it is necessary to push it back that far
5612016-05-26T19:45:45  <sipa> me too
5622016-05-26T19:46:25  <sdaftuar> has anyone tried to test or review #7600?
5632016-05-26T19:47:13  <sipa> i started looking at it, but not in detail
5642016-05-26T19:47:53  <sdaftuar> alright, well no point in talking about blockers until it's been reviewed
5652016-05-26T19:48:04  <gmaxwell> I beleive I applied it to a node and started it. (but then switched out of it to test something else) It's on my list.
5662016-05-26T19:50:11  <sipa> other topics?
5672016-05-26T19:50:34  <CodeShark> sipa: your suggestion seems superior to 8101 :p
5682016-05-26T19:50:38  <CodeShark> at least for now
5692016-05-26T19:50:50  <CodeShark> I was going to bring that up...but perhaps we can defer that discussion
5702016-05-26T19:50:50  <luke-jr> sdaftuar: I'll be sad too: it's been waiting since like 0.4 :p
5712016-05-26T19:51:38  <sipa> luke-jr: well, feel free to help review/test 7600 already
5722016-05-26T19:51:46  <gmaxwell> I will be sad to not get CPFP in soon if that happens, especially considering all the work that it's taken to get it this far.
5732016-05-26T19:52:10  <sipa> so i would encourage people to review
5742016-05-26T19:52:53  <sipa> #endmeeting
5752016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu May 26 19:52:53 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
5762016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2016/bitcoin-core-dev.2016-05-26-19.06.html
5772016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2016/bitcoin-core-dev.2016-05-26-19.06.txt
5782016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2016/bitcoin-core-dev.2016-05-26-19.06.log.html
5792016-05-26T19:52:59  <gmaxwell> [OT] There appears to be an emergent effort to flood reddit with recursive posts about BIP 151: http://imgur.com/xId5scH
5802016-05-26T19:53:13  <luke-jr> bbiab
5812016-05-26T19:53:47  <petertodd> gmaxwell: you guys suck at mixnets
5822016-05-26T19:54:06  <gmaxwell> adam's post is the best so far https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4l74p5/jameson_lopp_lukejr_gregory_maxwell_eragmus/
5832016-05-26T19:54:36  <btcdrak> LMAO
5842016-05-26T19:57:01  <sipa> i for one welcome the new recursively compressing overlords
5852016-05-26T19:57:18  <sipa> s/compressing/encrypting/
5862016-05-26T19:58:27  <petertodd> I for one welcome sipa's welcoming nature
5872016-05-26T19:58:43  <btcdrak> +1
5882016-05-26T19:59:38  <petertodd> C-C-C-C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker!
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5902016-05-26T20:12:13  <gmaxwell> sipa: why didn't warnings save us from the global aliasing bug you fixed today?
5912016-05-26T20:14:06  <sipa> gmaxwell: #8105
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5932016-05-26T20:14:26  <sipa> and travis didn't warn because of #8103
5942016-05-26T20:15:28  <gmaxwell> LOL
5952016-05-26T20:16:15  <sipa> "oh, machine shutdown
5962016-05-26T20:16:26  <sipa> "oh, machine shutdown... ALL TESTS PASS"
5972016-05-26T20:16:30  <gmaxwell> Perhaps we need to make sure all commiters have access to super fast machines, and make running the full tests part of the merge script?
5982016-05-26T20:16:39  <gmaxwell> sipa: "No failures detected."
5992016-05-26T20:16:52  <cfields_> hmm, we've seen that before. thought it was fixed on their end.
6002016-05-26T20:16:53  <cfields_> checking
6012016-05-26T20:17:04  <sipa> fair enough, that's a subtle but relevant distinction
6022016-05-26T20:17:51  <cfields_> one thing we could do is add the rpc-tests to 'make check'
6032016-05-26T20:18:35  <cfields_> especially once the java blocktester is replaced in python, that'll make it so that travis would basically just be running 'make check', same as what everyone could do manually
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6052016-05-26T20:19:06  <sipa> cfields_: ack
6062016-05-26T20:19:24  <cfields_> sdaftuar: how's that replacement coming, btw?
6072016-05-26T20:19:31  <sipa> together with parallel checking, it's even not that painful anymore
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