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 52 2016-06-14T05:32:01  <whu> Is there any plan to move from POW to POS for bitcoin ??
 53 2016-06-14T05:35:19  <helo> by the mentally unsound, whu
 54 2016-06-14T05:36:35  <whu> So you guys dont see any merit in it ?
 55 2016-06-14T05:37:22  <helo> #bitcoin is better to discuss trivialities like this
 56 2016-06-14T05:37:51  <helo> this channel is for nuts-and-bolts dev, not musings
 57 2016-06-14T05:39:22  <whu> I wanted to know what the core devs thought of it. Could you give me a one line answer on whether it is on the pipeline and I'll vanish.
 58 2016-06-14T05:40:10  <helo> whu: PoS has been considered as thoroughly and discarded
 59 2016-06-14T05:40:38  <whu> Thank you...
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 64 2016-06-14T06:33:09  <GitHub116> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/be9711e59707...36b74002f840
 65 2016-06-14T06:33:10  <GitHub116> bitcoin/master fa26c42 MarcoFalke: [qa] util: Move check_fee_amount out of wallet.py
 66 2016-06-14T06:33:10  <GitHub116> bitcoin/master fae1d06 MarcoFalke: [qa] fundrawtransaction: Fix race, assert amounts
 67 2016-06-14T06:33:11  <GitHub116> bitcoin/master 36b7400 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8201: [qa] fundrawtransaction: Fix race, assert amounts...
 68 2016-06-14T06:33:19  <GitHub6> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8201: [qa] fundrawtransaction: Fix race, assert amounts (master...Mf1606-qaFundraw) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8201
 69 2016-06-14T06:43:57  <jonasschnelli> sipa... hm... testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch seems to run but doesn't return a result.
 70 2016-06-14T06:44:05  <jonasschnelli> I'm running master with an old database...
 71 2016-06-14T06:44:13  <jonasschnelli> I guess i need to delete the database.
 72 2016-06-14T06:44:20  <jonasschnelli> Had to re-setup the server yesterday.
 73 2016-06-14T06:53:13  <jonasschnelli> sipa: Okay. testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch is up and running again.
 74 2016-06-14T06:53:38  <jonasschnelli> I missed to install tor (which I used to bypass the malware scanner from my server center operator)
 75 2016-06-14T06:55:00  *** xiangfu has quit IRC
 76 2016-06-14T06:55:21  <GitHub151> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #8200: [Tests] Fix fundrawtransaction feerate test (master...2016/06/fix_frt_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8200
 77 2016-06-14T07:02:08  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: windows gitian builds still broken? https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/nightlybuilds/2016-06-14/build-win.log (check bottom)
 78 2016-06-14T07:02:20  <jonasschnelli> checking whether the C++ compiler works... no
 79 2016-06-14T07:08:02  <GitHub28> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/36b74002f840...8c1d5ebd1706
 80 2016-06-14T07:08:02  <GitHub28> bitcoin/master 01a9904 fanquake: [trivial] Ignore split-debug.sh
 81 2016-06-14T07:08:03  <GitHub28> bitcoin/master 8c1d5eb Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8197: [trivial] Ignore split-debug.sh...
 82 2016-06-14T07:08:12  <GitHub102> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8197: [trivial] Ignore split-debug.sh (master...ignore-split-debug) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8197
 83 2016-06-14T07:14:04  <GitHub69> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8c1d5ebd1706...cca1c8cff011
 84 2016-06-14T07:14:04  <GitHub69> bitcoin/master fa61756 MarcoFalke: [gitian] set correct PATH for wrappers
 85 2016-06-14T07:14:05  <GitHub69> bitcoin/master cca1c8c Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8194: [gitian] set correct PATH for wrappers...
 86 2016-06-14T07:14:14  <GitHub108> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8194: [gitian] set correct PATH for wrappers (master...Mf1606-gitianPath) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8194
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 91 2016-06-14T08:57:23  <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: The windows build should be working now
 92 2016-06-14T08:57:26  *** Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 93 2016-06-14T08:57:41  <MarcoFalke> Try the new descriptors from master
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 98 2016-06-14T09:31:52  <jonasschnelli> Okay. Testing now with the new windows descriptor: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/pulls/7636/
 99 2016-06-14T09:40:39  <GitHub13> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7186: [WIP] Backports for 0.10.5 (updated to 93ca5a3) (0.10...backports-for-0.10.5) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7186
100 2016-06-14T09:45:00  <GitHub46> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cca1c8cff011...b67a4726dfc3
101 2016-06-14T09:45:01  <GitHub46> bitcoin/master f190251 Jonas Schnelli: [Wallet] Add simplest BIP32/deterministic key generation implementation
102 2016-06-14T09:45:01  <GitHub46> bitcoin/master c022e5b Jonas Schnelli: [Wallet] use constant for bip32 hardened key limit
103 2016-06-14T09:45:02  <GitHub46> bitcoin/master 17c0131 Jonas Schnelli: [Docs] Add release notes and bip update for Bip32/HD wallets
104 2016-06-14T09:45:06  <GitHub22> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8035: [Wallet] Add simplest BIP32/deterministic key generation implementation (master...2016/05/simplest_hd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8035
105 2016-06-14T09:45:11  <jonasschnelli> Yes!
106 2016-06-14T09:48:43  *** shangzhou has quit IRC
107 2016-06-14T09:50:01  <GitHub55> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b67a4726dfc3...520161480eb1
108 2016-06-14T09:50:01  <GitHub55> bitcoin/master 0e209f9 fanquake: [trivial] Sync ax_pthread with upstream draft
109 2016-06-14T09:50:02  <GitHub55> bitcoin/master 5201614 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8198: [trivial] Sync ax_pthread with upstream draft4...
110 2016-06-14T09:50:06  <GitHub4> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8198: [trivial] Sync ax_pthread with upstream draft4 (master...sync-pthread) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8198
111 2016-06-14T09:55:03  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: bah, if this continues we'll have no 0.13 release for windows :p
112 2016-06-14T09:56:11  <wumpus> getting all OS builds to work should probably be focus #1 after the feature freeze
113 2016-06-14T09:56:11  *** proslogion has left #bitcoin-core-dev
114 2016-06-14T09:57:29  <wumpus> as well as getting qt 5.6.1 to work
115 2016-06-14T09:58:01  *** proslogion has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
116 2016-06-14T10:00:46  <wumpus> I really like the new parallel rpc test launcher
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119 2016-06-14T10:08:45  <wumpus> anyone recognize this issue with gitian? http://www.hastebin.com/xununifuxa.txt
120 2016-06-14T10:09:29  <wumpus> interesting, just repeating the gbuild seems to get past it
121 2016-06-14T10:10:16  <wumpus> lxc is weird
122 2016-06-14T10:17:14  <btcdrak> wumpus: it happens randomly and you just have to run the command again. It's been like that for as long as i remember
123 2016-06-14T10:17:17  <wumpus> it's building the dependencies, this couuld take awhile
124 2016-06-14T10:17:49  <wumpus> btcdrak: yes I also remember seeing it before
125 2016-06-14T10:20:08  <wumpus> it's half-panic every time, debugging issues with gitian is tiring as everything goes so slow, I use this VM for nothing else to make sure (hopefully) nothing breaks it
126 2016-06-14T10:21:14  <wumpus> I wonder why we have no "upgrade gitian base image" step? doing a system upgrade before every build seems... overkill
127 2016-06-14T10:21:45  <wumpus> I know apt-cacher is caching the packages so there is no bandwidth overhead but it is still slow
128 2016-06-14T10:27:35  <GitHub83> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7230: BIP-draft:  2mb blocksize step (master...2015_2mb_blocksize_step) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7230
129 2016-06-14T10:33:40  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I'm trying to get a bucket of random testnet hosts by looking up testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch manually, but none of the node IP returned seem to have port 18333 open, am I doing something wrong?
130 2016-06-14T10:34:22  <wumpus> or just incredibly unlucky, one time I even got only ipv6 addresses :)
131 2016-06-14T10:36:31  <wumpus> oh it must be the address obfuscation, of course
132 2016-06-14T10:38:22  <sipa> address obfuscation? i thought we never adopted that
133 2016-06-14T10:39:50  <wumpus> I don't think so either
134 2016-06-14T10:40:27  <wumpus> I don't know then - using another seed gave me valid addresses, btw
135 2016-06-14T10:41:54  <sipa> maybe all testnet seeds are short lived?
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137 2016-06-14T10:43:07  <wumpus> well I checked about 30 addresses returned from jonasschnelli's seed, none could connect, the first one I tried from petertodd's seed was a hit
138 2016-06-14T10:43:24  <sipa> hmm
139 2016-06-14T10:45:25  *** mkarrer has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
140 2016-06-14T10:46:31  <wumpus> *yawn* now my testnet node hangs at 40% verification
141 2016-06-14T10:46:40  <wumpus> I should go back to bed, everything goes wrong today
142 2016-06-14T10:46:48  <sipa> awww
143 2016-06-14T10:48:00  <sipa> i see a stream of questions on stackexchange about unconfirmed transactions (mostly created by old software)... i really hope we can get some "fee increase" mechanism in
144 2016-06-14T10:49:14  <wumpus> well https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7865 is tagged for 0.13, but I doubt it is ready yet
145 2016-06-14T10:49:50  <wumpus> ugh, why would a node with checklevel=0 hang while doing the initial verification, I don't get it
146 2016-06-14T10:51:06  <wumpus> oh of course, let attach gdb, great idea, thanks ubuntu for making it so difficult I first have to become root or enable a flag...
147 2016-06-14T10:51:35  <sipa> ha, yes, after doing that a dozen times, i changed the default in sysctl.conf
148 2016-06-14T10:52:02  <sipa> my guess is that leveldb is compacting
149 2016-06-14T10:52:06  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: I think the windows build works again: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/pulls/7636/
150 2016-06-14T10:52:09  <wumpus> I forget that every time, normally I just start bitcoind in gdb, but thought I was donig something so trivial now that it would be unnecessary - wrong :p
151 2016-06-14T10:52:43  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: re seeder, I started the testnet seeder with a new database this morning. Not sure if the seeder already results enough data.
152 2016-06-14T10:53:11  <sipa> jonasschnelli: perhaps you should delete the db and start over?
153 2016-06-14T10:53:24  <jonasschnelli> yes. I did this this morning ~9oclock
154 2016-06-14T10:53:30  <sipa> ah
155 2016-06-14T10:53:43  <jonasschnelli> ah.. wait... I guess it's scanning mainnet. :(
156 2016-06-14T10:53:49  <sipa> ha
157 2016-06-14T10:53:52  <btcdrak> lmao
158 2016-06-14T10:54:06  <wumpus> oh, nm, I was looking at the wrong log
159 2016-06-14T10:54:09  <jonasschnelli> fooled by the subdomain. :)
160 2016-06-14T10:55:25  <jonasschnelli> Okay. removed the database and started in testnet mode
161 2016-06-14T10:55:28  <wumpus> yes, windows build seems to work
162 2016-06-14T10:55:54  <jonasschnelli> sipa: [...] i really hope we can get some "fee increase" mechanism in
163 2016-06-14T10:55:55  <wumpus> current master: 291be202508e518646116677cc99cb1333739d52e2c4ae7259359b3bd3729e0c  bitcoin-0.12.99-win-unsigned.tar.gz
164 2016-06-14T10:56:03  <jonasschnelli> sipa: you could review the bumpfee command.
165 2016-06-14T10:56:22  <jonasschnelli> I'm not entirely sure if taking a txid and autobump it is the way to go though.
166 2016-06-14T10:57:17  <sipa> if CPFP gets in, there is an easier solution
167 2016-06-14T10:58:19  <sipa> jonasschnelli: i don't know how to make this easy to use
168 2016-06-14T10:58:29  <wumpus> how is addnode supposed to work? I added a few (seemingly functional) testnet nodes, but they all stay at "connected": false in getaddednodeinfo (testing #8113)
169 2016-06-14T10:58:35  <jonasschnelli> I'm planing on extending the HD feature. Importing/starting a wallet with a xpriv key. How should we do that. I guess having a -xpriv= startup argument is very bad.
170 2016-06-14T10:58:42  <sipa> wumpus: it cycles every 2 minutes
171 2016-06-14T10:58:46  <wumpus> let's first worry about having some mechanism in, and then about making it easy to use
172 2016-06-14T10:59:10  <sipa> wumpus: and then tries to connect to one of the unconnected addnodes
173 2016-06-14T10:59:17  <wumpus> there's only two days left before the feature freeze so we need to make some choices
174 2016-06-14T10:59:24  <wumpus> sipa: okay, thanks
175 2016-06-14T11:02:06  <jonasschnelli> would ./bitcoin-wallet be a tool where users could create a wallet(.dat) with a xpriv?
176 2016-06-14T11:02:17  <jonasschnelli> Everything that goes over RPC is somehow not ideal
177 2016-06-14T11:02:56  <wumpus> that's the eternal question - command line isn't the ideal interface either though, especially if you're not writing shell script
178 2016-06-14T11:04:31  <wumpus> I think having wallet creation commands on RPC makes some sense, at least once there is multi-wallet support
179 2016-06-14T11:04:57  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. But right now, we create the wallet before the RPC is ready.
180 2016-06-14T11:05:10  <wumpus> yes, right now, I'm sure that needs to be changed
181 2016-06-14T11:05:13  <wumpus> is there a hurry?
182 2016-06-14T11:05:18  <jonasschnelli> No hurry.
183 2016-06-14T11:05:34  <jonasschnelli> Certenly not something for 0.13
184 2016-06-14T11:05:46  <jonasschnelli> But need some brainfood for afk time. :)
185 2016-06-14T11:05:49  <wumpus> decoupling the wallet further would mean that node RPC could be ready, before the wallet even starts loading/creating
186 2016-06-14T11:06:06  <wumpus> especially if the wallet has its own entry point
187 2016-06-14T11:06:15  <jonasschnelli> yes. I'm working on removine the splash screen and add this state
188 2016-06-14T11:06:46  <wumpus> removing the splash screen? I'd think we still need it during initial verification
189 2016-06-14T11:07:23  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. But you can access the wallet during this time. Get addresses, list transactions, etc.
190 2016-06-14T11:07:27  <wumpus> there's something to be said for having a wallet as an external tool/library, but the scope for doing that within bitcoin core is very small
191 2016-06-14T11:07:49  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I don't think that's a very good idea, even being able to access the wallet during *synchronization* caused a ton of confused users
192 2016-06-14T11:08:34  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: but decoupling the wallet would result in such states. I guess all SPV wallets allow address/tx access in out-of-sync state.
193 2016-06-14T11:08:35  <wumpus> e.g. 'I downloaded bitcoin core and sent from *web wallet provider* to a new address, now my transaction doesn't show!'
194 2016-06-14T11:08:42  <jonasschnelli> Sure, we might want to add a SPV mode first.
195 2016-06-14T11:09:10  <wumpus> possibly, but I don't think - right now - there is any benefit to removing the splash screen and showing a (mostly dysfunctional) GUI instead
196 2016-06-14T11:09:21  <jonasschnelli> But its annoying that you need to go through verification/checkblocks if you want to get a new address
197 2016-06-14T11:09:55  <wumpus> possibly... checkblocks takes too long by default, that's aother issue
198 2016-06-14T11:10:13  <jonasschnelli> IMO the (wallet)GUI is fully functional during init-verification
199 2016-06-14T11:10:25  <wumpus> I think validating the last blocks is a good thing, but the default depth setting is overkill
200 2016-06-14T11:10:41  <jonasschnelli> Yes. But the node (validation) is not tied to the wallet/GUI.
201 2016-06-14T11:10:58  <wumpus> that's true...
202 2016-06-14T11:11:04  <jonasschnelli> But right. We need more prominent warnings if the wallet is not in sync
203 2016-06-14T11:11:22  <wumpus> but it won't start syncing blocks until that part is done, so people will still complain 'why isn't it synching!!!'
204 2016-06-14T11:11:36  <wumpus> WHHY IS THERE NO BLOCK SOURCE AVAILABLE
205 2016-06-14T11:11:51  <jonasschnelli> Heh... yes. probably.
206 2016-06-14T11:12:10  <jonasschnelli> Step by step...
207 2016-06-14T11:12:19  <jonasschnelli> For 0.14 i'd like to focus more on the UI
208 2016-06-14T11:12:28  <wumpus> you're right that creating an address can be done without any node functionality, but then, people can't see transactions to the address without it, or being in sync
209 2016-06-14T11:12:48  <sipa> i think we should disable that feature by default
210 2016-06-14T11:13:06  <wumpus> which is arguably the part people care about, actually receiving coins
211 2016-06-14T11:13:08  <sipa> not show a receive address until sync is done
212 2016-06-14T11:13:26  <wumpus> well for a start it should show a big red warning in the transaction pane when not up to date
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214 2016-06-14T11:13:32  <wumpus> I don't think you need to actually disable it
215 2016-06-14T11:13:44  <wumpus> but just warn better
216 2016-06-14T11:13:50  <sipa> perhaps make it greyed out with a button, and if you click it it first asks you "are you aware that you'll only receive once you're synced?"
217 2016-06-14T11:14:04  <wumpus> there is no indication right now excapt for the extremely toned-down out-of-sync triangles
218 2016-06-14T11:14:27  <jonasschnelli> Wouldn't this be to much handholding for expert users?
219 2016-06-14T11:14:37  <jonasschnelli> (not the warning)
220 2016-06-14T11:14:48  <jonasschnelli> (just the fact that you can't get addresses when you are not in sync)
221 2016-06-14T11:14:57  <wumpus> yes, i think that's too much babysitting
222 2016-06-14T11:15:25  <jonasschnelli> IMO even the fact that you need to wait for the init/checks before you can list transactions or get new addresses.
223 2016-06-14T11:15:26  <wumpus> lots of people do know that, it's just new users that don't, maybe we should add a tutorial mode on first use
224 2016-06-14T11:15:42  <sipa> right
225 2016-06-14T11:16:03  <sipa> yes, just thinking through how a first time user sees all this
226 2016-06-14T11:16:55  <jonasschnelli> This is the difficulty: make it useable for basic/new bitcoin users but also make the experts happy.
227 2016-06-14T11:17:08  <wumpus> yes
228 2016-06-14T11:17:39  <wumpus> in any case, adding a warning wouldn't hurt and is easy to do
229 2016-06-14T11:18:07  <GitHub179> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/520161480eb1...fb0ac482eee7
230 2016-06-14T11:18:07  <GitHub179> bitcoin/master 1c2a1ba Francesco 'makevoid' Canessa: Add address label to request payment QR Code (QT)...
231 2016-06-14T11:18:08  <GitHub179> bitcoin/master fb0ac48 Jonas Schnelli: Merge #7636: Add bitcoin address label to request payment QR code...
232 2016-06-14T11:18:12  <GitHub124> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #7636: Add bitcoin address label to request payment QR code (master...request_payment_qrcode_address_label) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7636
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234 2016-06-14T11:20:00  <wumpus> how exactly is up to the person implementing it, I guess
235 2016-06-14T11:21:06  <wumpus> there's enough place on the "receive" tab to add a warning, and in the transaction pane I suppose it could show an overlay if there are no transactions yet and it is syncing
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238 2016-06-14T11:26:28  <MarcoFalke> Anyone seeing OOM for gitian builds?
239 2016-06-14T11:26:34  <MarcoFalke> in main.cpp
240 2016-06-14T11:27:19  <wumpus> no, though adding of debug symbols in #8167 did increase the memory requirements for gitian a bit
241 2016-06-14T11:28:00  <MarcoFalke> How does gbuild set up the ram of the vm?
242 2016-06-14T11:28:20  <MarcoFalke> I could try to increase it, I guess.
243 2016-06-14T11:29:08  <wumpus> -j5 -m5000  where -j is the parallelism and -m is the memory size in mb
244 2016-06-14T11:31:28  <wumpus> what is the expected behavior when addnoding a seed?
245 2016-06-14T11:32:34  <sipa> very fuzzy
246 2016-06-14T11:32:49  <sipa> i think it won't make any connection if you already have 8 outgoing ones
247 2016-06-14T11:32:58  <wumpus> for me it works with IPs but not with hostnames
248 2016-06-14T11:33:09  <sipa> it should work with hostnames
249 2016-06-14T11:33:44  <sipa> wumpus: is this in #8113?
250 2016-06-14T11:33:55  <wumpus> the expectation is that it looks up the address for the seed then connect to the first address, I suppose?
251 2016-06-14T11:33:59  <wumpus> yes
252 2016-06-14T11:34:07  <sipa> it randonly tries one of the returned ip addtesses every 2 minutes
253 2016-06-14T11:34:18  <sipa> if one fails, there is another attempt 2 minutes later
254 2016-06-14T11:34:29  <wumpus> it stays at 'connected': false all the time
255 2016-06-14T11:34:47  <sipa> do you have 8 outgoing connections already?
256 2016-06-14T11:35:02  <wumpus> yes
257 2016-06-14T11:35:13  <wumpus> should I kick some other connections?
258 2016-06-14T11:35:53  <wumpus> ok disconnected all nodes, let's see what happens
259 2016-06-14T11:36:48  <sipa> the addnode logic should be integrated into the normal outgoing connection logic, and be protected from eviction
260 2016-06-14T11:37:21  <wumpus> yes, I suppose so, how badly this works I wonder if anyone was actually using this functionality and whether it makes sense to spend time on it
261 2016-06-14T11:38:54  <sipa> i think after we have p2p encryption and authentication, we may want to encourage it
262 2016-06-14T11:40:45  <MarcoFalke> looks like it is using 2000MiB as default. In case the default is no longer enough, it may be worth to adjust https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md#build-and-sign-bitcoin-core-for-linux-windows-and-os-x
263 2016-06-14T11:40:51  <wumpus> I set up a hostname for a known-working testnet node, lets see if it wants to connect to that...
264 2016-06-14T11:42:22  <wumpus> evicting all other nodes again
265 2016-06-14T11:42:44  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, I guess so
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267 2016-06-14T11:44:08  <wumpus> it didn't work automatically, though I could force it to connect with "addnode hostname onetry"
268 2016-06-14T11:44:16  <wumpus> now it shows up in getaddednodeinfo
269 2016-06-14T11:45:09  <sipa> over long periods of time, it will end up connecring to the addnode nodes when other outgoing connections die
270 2016-06-14T11:45:36  <wumpus> but I disconnected all other nodes; I don't see why I would have to wait longer than 2 minutes in that case
271 2016-06-14T11:45:57  <wumpus> in any case I managed to force it to connect and it shows up in getaddednodeinfo correcty
272 2016-06-14T11:47:02  <wumpus> I still hope Matt can give #8113 a try
273 2016-06-14T11:47:12  <wumpus> and check it still does whatever he expects from it
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279 2016-06-14T12:28:18  <murch> sipa: Perhaps you remember that we talked about the Coin Selection algorithm a little bit about a month ago. I'm now indeed writing my Master's thesis about that problem. :) I was wondering if someone could confirm or deny my understanding of the current algorithm's behavior.
280 2016-06-14T12:28:23  <murch> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fb0ac482eee761ec17ed2c11df11e054347a026d/src/wallet/wallet.cpp#L1863
281 2016-06-14T12:29:27  <murch> Do I understand correctly, that this actually uses the sorted list (decreasing) of available UTXO and selects each UTXO with a 50%? That would easily explain the growth of the UTXO set, if I'm not mistaken.
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284 2016-06-14T12:30:31  <sipa> murch: i can't say that i've ever looked at the algorithm in detail
285 2016-06-14T12:32:04  <sipa> murch: it looks like it does 1000 iterations over all UTXOs twice, stopping when it goes over the maximum
286 2016-06-14T12:33:31  <murch> sipa: But vValue is sorted in decreasing order by size, and it starts at the front selecting UTXO with a random binary chance. That would significantly increase the chance for large UTXO to be selected as inputs, especially since the maximum should be reached quickly when big inputs are added first.
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288 2016-06-14T12:34:26  <murch> I used to think that it randomly selected from all UTXO with equal chance (that's what I simulated two years ago), but I just realized yesterday, that it doesn't seem to do that (anymore?).
289 2016-06-14T12:35:22  <murch> Unless I'm jut confused about what's happening there, because that seems like a really easy explanation for the UTXO growth.
290 2016-06-14T12:35:45  <sipa> murch: it's in increasing value, i think?
291 2016-06-14T12:36:23  <sipa> CompareValueOnly does a < for the value
292 2016-06-14T12:36:47  <murch> sipa: sort() puts it in ascending order, and it is reversed afterwards: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fb0ac482eee761ec17ed2c11df11e054347a026d/src/wallet/wallet.cpp#L1962
293 2016-06-14T12:37:02  <sipa> oh, right
294 2016-06-14T12:37:04  <instagibbs> it used to be a much more ocnfusing rsort....
295 2016-06-14T12:38:08  <murch> instagibbs: Yeah, I proposed to at least split it in two lines for better readability. :)
296 2016-06-14T12:39:34  <murch> sipa: Now don't fix it today though, I still want to write my thesis on it! ^^
297 2016-06-14T12:39:53  <sipa> murch: i'm not going to fix anything; i hope you do :)
298 2016-06-14T12:41:04  <murch> sipa: But, it would be very helpful to me if you could tell me whether I understood correctly what it does there, and I'm not overlooking something glaringly obvious. Because my next step would be to simulate how much of a difference it would make to pick randomly instead of from the front.
299 2016-06-14T12:41:36  <murch> Seems like a good idea to check the facts before I spend a bunch of hours on something useless. :)
300 2016-06-14T12:41:51  <sipa> i think you've looked at it better than i have
301 2016-06-14T12:42:55  <murch> Yeah, but my overall familiarity with the Bitcoin Core is slightly behind yours. ;) But I guess, I'd count that as an "I haven't seen anything that contradicts Murch". :)
302 2016-06-14T12:43:19  <murch> Then… coming up next, simulation results, I hope.
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304 2016-06-14T12:46:17  <murch> sipa: Thanks
305 2016-06-14T12:47:13  <MarcoFalke> murch: Correct
306 2016-06-14T12:47:28  <murch> MarcoFalke: Thank you
307 2016-06-14T12:47:43  <MarcoFalke> The first pass is selecting a coin with prob .5 as long as the target is not reached
308 2016-06-14T12:47:43  <sipa> perhaps you should talk to MarcoFalke instead :)
309 2016-06-14T12:48:05  <murch> Yeah, I believe we've collaborated on this last time around as well. :)
310 2016-06-14T12:48:07  <MarcoFalke> The second pass will select anything that is not included as long as the target is not reached
311 2016-06-14T12:48:26  <NicolasDorier> might be useful to see the votes http://api.qbit.ninja/versionstats
312 2016-06-14T12:48:58  <MarcoFalke> But in any case it will always "unselect" coins when the target was reached to try to "hit the target better" by trying with smaller coins
313 2016-06-14T12:49:03  <murch> MarcoFalke: I didn't realize this before, but that approach significantly biases towards selecting large UTXO. Do you remember whether the algorithm used to work differently? That would explain the accelerated growth of the UTXO set, no?
314 2016-06-14T12:49:33  <murch> Aaah, right. I had forgotten about that.
315 2016-06-14T12:49:54  <MarcoFalke> I think this is still the way satoshi wrote it
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318 2016-06-14T12:50:14  <MarcoFalke> (you could check git log -S or something)
319 2016-06-14T12:50:48  <instagibbs> murch, you have to remember that excessive amounts of inputs take longer to verify
320 2016-06-14T12:50:58  <instagibbs> might be taken into account
321 2016-06-14T12:51:02  <_anthony_> morning all
322 2016-06-14T12:51:07  <MarcoFalke> The problem is that zero-fee (free) transaction were more common back then
323 2016-06-14T12:51:32  <MarcoFalke> Right now transaction with no fee (trying to "pay" with priority) are impossible to get through
324 2016-06-14T12:51:38  <sipa> if you're not trying to hit the target exactly, i think you can limit yourself to only choosing a certain number of utxos from within a range around the target value (say [0.1*target...3*target]
325 2016-06-14T12:51:40  <MarcoFalke> but coin selection was not adjusted accordingly
326 2016-06-14T12:52:07  <murch> instagibbs: I solved that by outsourcing the selection to a binary array that flags selected inputs, instead of directly creating sets. That made it much faster. (or do you mean for confirmation on the network?)
327 2016-06-14T12:52:38  <instagibbs> murch, signing the txn requires hashing the txn over and over for each input.
328 2016-06-14T12:52:49  <instagibbs> (pre-segwit)
329 2016-06-14T12:53:49  <murch> instagibbs: Ah, now I get what you mean. Yes, I'm aware. There are also a bunch of other incentives why you don't want to use too many inputs such as fees, and privacy. I'm working on properly writing up all those constraints and requirements for my thesis. :)
330 2016-06-14T12:53:58  <_anthony_> I have a question: as far as I can tell, script versioning lets you put arbitrary data in the blockchain (just use an unused version number). Is this right?
331 2016-06-14T12:54:00  <instagibbs> I'm almost sure it wasn't the original idea though, just saying. As sipa said you can simply make sure it doesn't do that by bounding input size
332 2016-06-14T12:55:28  <instagibbs> _anthony_, the block cost is still static
333 2016-06-14T12:55:52  <MarcoFalke> murch, you are welcome to do a presentation on your results during a irc meeting
334 2016-06-14T12:56:01  <MarcoFalke> they are every thursday
335 2016-06-14T12:56:43  <_anthony_> hmm, yeah, I guess it isn't really much of an advantage
336 2016-06-14T12:57:25  <murch> MarcoFalke: Thank you, I'd be happy to. I'll get in touch when I have something to present. Perhaps not this week, but next week.
337 2016-06-14T12:57:36  <instagibbs> _anthony_, otherwise someone today could send a v16 segwit transaction, and stuff 8GB in it
338 2016-06-14T12:57:39  <MarcoFalke> no pressure :)
339 2016-06-14T12:58:15  <murch> MarcoFalke: Well, this time I'm fairly certain that I'll have something to present, as in October, I'll have to present some fifty odd pages of work. :)
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341 2016-06-14T12:58:29  <instagibbs> murch, will it include a PR? ;)
342 2016-06-14T12:58:57  <MarcoFalke> We should look at the new model first
343 2016-06-14T12:59:12  <murch> instagibbs: That's the plan, although my advisor scolded me last time that it's not part of my thesis, just an added bonus for myself. :)
344 2016-06-14T12:59:13  <MarcoFalke> Otherwise the pr will receive no review and bitrot instantly
345 2016-06-14T13:00:01  <_anthony_> yeah I caught that part....I was thinking of how you could make an altcoin using script versioning, but really it wouldn't provide any advantage over regular anyone-can-spend txes
346 2016-06-14T13:00:21  <murch> instagibbs: Main goals of the work are a comprehensive overview of the problem, the different parameters and approaches how it could be solved, and an evaluation of said approaches. Whether or not it gets adopted by Bitcoin Core is not part of my thesis, but a personal goal. :)
347 2016-06-14T13:00:32  <_anthony_> you'd have to have support of >50% of miners or else anyone could spend your altcoins out from under you
348 2016-06-14T13:03:46  <murch> MarcoFalke: Noted. :)
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365 2016-06-14T14:24:23  <Chris_St1> Is there a reason the user agent inside of a version message would change when connecting to nodes within a 5 second period? On testnet..
366 2016-06-14T14:24:58  <sipa> the agent you sent send, or receive?
367 2016-06-14T14:25:18  <wumpus> at least bitcoin core doesn't change the 'user agent' on such conditions, no
368 2016-06-14T14:26:02  <Chris_St1> I'm sending a version message to a tesnet dns seed, and receiving their version message back. If I do this within a 5 second period I'm getting different versions on that same node
369 2016-06-14T14:26:24  <wumpus> although you should avoid connecting to nodes too intensively
370 2016-06-14T14:26:41  <Chris_St1> i.e /Satoshi:0.12.0/ then 5 seconds later /Satoshi:0.11.2/
371 2016-06-14T14:26:48  <wumpus> 'change your user agent' isn't a very useful defense against that
372 2016-06-14T14:27:15  <wumpus> you're connecting to the seed, as in the DNS name? that resolves to a different host every time
373 2016-06-14T14:27:31  <Chris_St1> mmm yes that could be it
374 2016-06-14T14:27:42  <sipa> pretty sure that's it :)
375 2016-06-14T14:28:00  <Chris_St1> Yep. Doh!
376 2016-06-14T14:28:05  <Chris_St1> Thansk
377 2016-06-14T14:31:11  <sipa> no results from x9.testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch :(
378 2016-06-14T14:31:57  <jonasschnelli> sipa: this means no NODE_WITNESS nodes...
379 2016-06-14T14:32:20  <sipa> indeed.
380 2016-06-14T14:32:22  <sipa> that's pretty bad
381 2016-06-14T14:32:33  <sdaftuar> i have one if you want to connect to it
382 2016-06-14T14:32:50  <instagibbs> sipa, where should ACKs be going for segwit pr
383 2016-06-14T14:32:57  <jonasschnelli> sipa: I guess in master the dnsseed.dump does not list the service flags?
384 2016-06-14T14:33:02  <sipa> jonasschnelli: it does
385 2016-06-14T14:33:18  <jonasschnelli> ah .. yes. second last col
386 2016-06-14T14:33:31  <sipa> under svcs
387 2016-06-14T14:34:23  <wumpus> instagibbs: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7910
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390 2016-06-14T14:35:07  <instagibbs> wumpus, roger
391 2016-06-14T14:36:30  <sipa> wumpus, instagibbs: yeah, let's keep everhthing on 7910... thoughit's 8149 that would be merged, i guess
392 2016-06-14T14:37:03  <instagibbs> that's fine
393 2016-06-14T14:38:43  <btcdrak> maybe you can put an ACK transfer list in #8149 like was done in #7524
394 2016-06-14T14:40:43  <jonasschnelli> sipa: Yes. There are no nodes with 00000009
395 2016-06-14T14:41:03  <jonasschnelli> Could it be because I scan though tor? I guess should result in ~the same when scanning not through tor
396 2016-06-14T14:41:35  <sipa> i guess there just are very few
397 2016-06-14T14:47:15  <sdaftuar> i believe there are very few
398 2016-06-14T14:47:51  <sdaftuar> i hacked my code recently to only connect to witness peers, and let it run for a long time (~hours) without finding anyone
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500 2016-06-14T22:53:03  <GitHub116> [bitcoin] nathaniel-mahieu opened pull request #8203: Clarify documentation for running a tor node (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8203
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