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  9 2016-09-17T00:14:12  <GitHub128> [bitcoin] pstratem closed pull request #8585: [Wallet] Move IncOrderPosNext to CWallet::AddAccountingEntry (master...2016-08-24-cwallet-incorderposnext) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8585
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 17 2016-09-17T01:11:36  <phantomcircuit> sipa: so they're not compatible with each other?
 18 2016-09-17T01:11:43  <phantomcircuit> that's weird
 19 2016-09-17T01:16:12  <sipa> phantomcircuit: every c++03 valid program is valid in c++11
 20 2016-09-17T01:16:32  <sipa> because >> in templates can never be correctly interpreted as a shift
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 23 2016-09-17T02:04:05  <phantomcircuit> sipa: ok
 24 2016-09-17T02:05:04  <phantomcircuit> sipa: can you check 8695
 25 2016-09-17T02:11:29  <midnightmagic> lol is it my imagination or has gdb actually gotten worse for c++ over time
 26 2016-09-17T02:11:51  <midnightmagic> what do people use these days to debug coredumps and running C++ programs?
 27 2016-09-17T02:12:57  <sipa> gdb has gotten a lot better over timr
 28 2016-09-17T02:13:06  <sipa> you can now inspect vector elements etc
 29 2016-09-17T02:15:02  <sipa> phantomcircuit: yes yes, when i get back
 30 2016-09-17T02:24:08  <midnightmagic> sort of.
 31 2016-09-17T02:24:52  <midnightmagic> $foo.genesis.vtx._M_impl._M_start.vout._M_impl._M_start.scriptPubKey.begin() ?
 32 2016-09-17T02:24:55  <midnightmagic> :-/
 33 2016-09-17T02:27:23  <midnightmagic> or do you mean the pretty-printer that doesn't describe the actual data structure elements in a way that can be references without tab-completion (which only in like 2015/16 got the surprise-you-have-to-wait-for-a-global-million-member-search fix)
 34 2016-09-17T02:28:14  <midnightmagic> (which means almost no machines with gdb installed have it yet)
 35 2016-09-17T02:28:17  * midnightmagic gripes
 36 2016-09-17T02:35:42  <sipa> midnightmagic: i mean foo[0]
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 41 2016-09-17T02:42:16  <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic: printf
 42 2016-09-17T03:16:39  <jl2012> luke-jr: I just chose "don't show my email address"
 43 2016-09-17T03:16:51  <jl2012> updated
 44 2016-09-17T03:17:20  <jl2012> luke-jr, sipa: I found it. It's not STRICTENC, it's part of IsStandardTx
 45 2016-09-17T03:17:44  <jl2012> the SIGPUSHONLY flag is not used
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 49 2016-09-17T03:28:55  <luke-jr> jl2012: kinda ugly to affect git like that
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 52 2016-09-17T03:33:32  <jl2012> luke-jr: it's github's function
 53 2016-09-17T03:33:48  <jl2012> i didn't pay attention to that
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 55 2016-09-17T04:05:04  <midnightmagic> :-/ printf won't give me a pretty-printed struct dump!
 56 2016-09-17T04:10:11  <sipa> how recent is your gdb?
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 67 2016-09-17T04:36:45  <NicolasDorier> sipa: Have you tried to limit disk access by not writing on disk every time you validate a block ? The idea would be that we can skip lots of IO by caching in RAM an ongoing patch to the UTXO DB that we commit only once every hour during IBD or if there is memory pressure. I think we can skip some IO because if a UTXO is opened and closed during the same
 68 2016-09-17T04:36:45  <NicolasDorier> patch, it would consume no IO at all.
 69 2016-09-17T04:36:45  <NicolasDorier> It would also make database corruption less likely, as a corruption would be only possible if bitcoind savagely quit just when the patch is applied to the disk.
 70 2016-09-17T04:37:28  <sipa> NicolasDorier: we don't write to the utxo set frequently
 71 2016-09-17T04:37:52  <NicolasDorier> ah so you are already doing that ? :(
 72 2016-09-17T04:37:57  <sipa> depending on your dbcache setting you can do full validation from scratch without ever writing to the chainstate
 73 2016-09-17T04:38:04  <sipa> yes, it's a massive speedup
 74 2016-09-17T04:38:13  <sipa> we've been doing that since 0.8
 75 2016-09-17T04:38:30  <NicolasDorier> I thought dbcache was only for read from chainstate
 76 2016-09-17T04:38:32  <NicolasDorier> not writing
 77 2016-09-17T04:39:01  <sipa> it's both
 78 2016-09-17T04:39:33  <sipa> if a utxo entry is spent before being written to disk, it can be completely dropped, and will never even touch disk
 79 2016-09-17T04:40:45  <NicolasDorier> interesting thanks, I thought that things were written to disk every block
 80 2016-09-17T04:45:28  <sipa> with default settings it's maybe written every few dozen to a hundred blkcks
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 84 2016-09-17T05:14:06  <midnightmagic> sipa: 7.7.1-0ubuntu5 :-( so, a bit older I guess. Don't mind me, I'm just griping. :)
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 92 2016-09-17T06:06:56  <rebroad> I'd like to talk about Whitelisted nodes
 93 2016-09-17T06:07:22  <rebroad> I have a bunch of changed I'd like to work on but before I can there appears there needs to be some clarity on what a whitelisted node is supposed to be
 94 2016-09-17T06:07:29  <rebroad> changes
 95 2016-09-17T06:07:49  <rebroad> for example, I'd like to make a change that says if a whitelisted node says a block is good then that block is treated as checkpointed
 96 2016-09-17T06:08:03  <rebroad> saving CPU for the node catching up
 97 2016-09-17T06:08:34  <rebroad> should I create a new category of node called "trusted" node, or would it be the same thing?
 98 2016-09-17T06:12:05  <rebroad> luke-jr, thanks for the cc earlier (just noticed it, irc didn't highlight it for some reason)... did I miss some conversation previously? you seemed to be replying to sipa but I didn't see any talk about printf between my question and that response from you.
 99 2016-09-17T06:15:11  <gmaxwell> rebroad: we would not accept bypassing validation. It would hardly make things faster in the common case, and it would drastically increase the risk of corruption or misconfiguration turning into contagion that casues massive outages.
100 2016-09-17T06:15:49  <gmaxwell> you should assume all the checkpoint whatever will be removed in the next couple major revisions.
101 2016-09-17T06:16:13  <gmaxwell> they're largely rendered pointless by prior software improvements.
102 2016-09-17T06:17:59  <gmaxwell> the whitelisting is intended to bypass resource limits, for cases where trigger happy anti-dos rules might isolate or slow down a node of your own from its gateway to the outside world.
103 2016-09-17T06:18:38  <gmaxwell> (the intended usage is primarily that-- nodes that act as gateways for other nodes of your own which can't directly access the outside world)
104 2016-09-17T06:19:06  <rebroad> gmaxwell, if someone was running multiple nodes over a VPN for example... would they not want to reduce their overall CPU usage by letting the nodes share the work of validation though?
105 2016-09-17T06:19:43  <rebroad> gmaxwell, VLAN i meant to say
106 2016-09-17T06:19:56  <gmaxwell> because it wouldn't avoid any at runtime. When a node is running almost all the transactions are verified and cached long before the block shows up. The cpu spent when the block shows up is all hashing and database manipulation which can't be avoided.
107 2016-09-17T06:20:18  <rebroad> gmaxwell, I'm speaking of an IBD situation
108 2016-09-17T06:20:27  <gmaxwell> and beyond that, why even run multiple nodes when any disfunction/corruption/misconfiguration will silently spread and corrupt between them.
109 2016-09-17T06:21:08  <rebroad> gmaxwell, if we're talking IBD then the validation could at least be saved
110 2016-09-17T06:21:31  <rebroad> gmaxwell, or is that negligable compared with the hashing and database manipulation?
111 2016-09-17T06:22:02  <rebroad> gmaxwell, I guess for IBD specifically then you are going to suggest rsync as a better way :)
112 2016-09-17T06:22:18  <gmaxwell> Not compeltely negligible, but it's not so great anymore with libsecp2561k... and even that still can get another 20% faster.. and on hosts with many cores other upcoming changes will make that part a couple times faster.
113 2016-09-17T06:22:33  <gmaxwell> I suppose rsync is an option too and _much_ faster.
114 2016-09-17T06:22:36  <rebroad> gmaxwell, good to hear. thanks
115 2016-09-17T06:22:47  <gmaxwell> NP.
116 2016-09-17T06:22:51  <gmaxwell> (no problem)
117 2016-09-17T06:23:05  <rebroad> gmaxwell, I am not up to speed on the overall roadmap of core.. I have seen the scaling roadmap, but is there an overall roadmap?
118 2016-09-17T06:23:37  <gmaxwell> The roadmap is what people will actually work on, largely.
119 2016-09-17T06:24:11  <gmaxwell> there are many things which people would like to, I'd suggest reading through the bitcoin core zurich meeting notes for things people are working on/planning on working on.
120 2016-09-17T06:24:40  <rebroad> gmaxwell, also, hope my comment to your issue on BU was ok - I was thinking that perhaps they were of the mindset that SegWit might be unlikely to happen/fork, so was trying to pre-empt that possible assumption (Which might lead to them not even responding).. plus I think it's valid question - there does appear to be an assumption that SegWit will happen, but I'm not so far aware of the information behind that
121 2016-09-17T06:24:41  <rebroad> assumption
122 2016-09-17T06:25:41  <rebroad> gmaxwell, I'd like to read those notes - where would I find them please?
123 2016-09-17T06:26:03  <rebroad> luke-jr, ah.. it only highlights me to messages that start with rebroad it would seem
124 2016-09-17T06:26:06  <gmaxwell> google, sorry, I can't really provide links right now. Don't have a working pointing device.
125 2016-09-17T06:26:41  <rebroad> gmaxwell, you have your finger but you're lacking the interface to your current working pointing devices ;)
126 2016-09-17T06:27:22  <gmaxwell> rebroad: response to me from discussion on the lists and with many users tells me that it will be activate for certian. If not, I don't much care, but I don't want anyone to be unnecessarily left behind.
127 2016-09-17T06:27:41  <luke-jr> rebroad: I don't recall the conversation. sipa replied to you across 4 or 5 lines, which I was adding to
128 2016-09-17T06:28:07  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: if you could find the transcribe for rebroad that would be really helpful.
129 2016-09-17T06:28:32  <rebroad> luke-jr, oh.. for some reason it's not showing up in my window (sipa's response)...  erm.. might you be able to point me towards the archive of the logs so I can try to find his reponse? weird.. my computer has been connected between my question and your reply..
130 2016-09-17T06:28:46  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: not easily unfortunately; about to board leg 2 of 3
131 2016-09-17T06:29:00  <luke-jr> rebroad: /topic
132 2016-09-17T06:29:14  <rebroad> luke-jr, /topic?
133 2016-09-17T06:29:42  <luke-jr> rebroad: the logs are linked in the channel "topic"
134 2016-09-17T06:29:59  <luke-jr> typically at the top of the window
135 2016-09-17T06:30:23  <rebroad> luke-jr, gmaxwell I am fascinated to know what you are travelling so much for... I am wondering if perhaps I might attend the meetup in Milan
136 2016-09-17T06:31:14  <rebroad> luke-jr, gmaxwell not meaning to imply I'm at your level of expertise or anything (I know I am not)
137 2016-09-17T06:31:51  <luke-jr> i think this was zurich: https://bitcoincore.org/en/meetings/2016/05/20/
138 2016-09-17T06:32:37  <rebroad> found the logs (https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/)
139 2016-09-17T06:32:48  <rebroad> luke-jr, ah, thanks
140 2016-09-17T06:33:52  <gmaxwell> rebroad: I didn't respond to you on the BU github before because when I tried to reply I got a red "You can't comment here at this time." box. I tried again just now and it worked.
141 2016-09-17T06:34:03  <luke-jr> rebroad: I do consulting for various Bitcoin stuff, but I try to minimise travel even then :p
142 2016-09-17T06:34:34  <gmaxwell> rebroad: Many people would love to see you in milan. Though I think it's sold out right now.
143 2016-09-17T06:35:58  <luke-jr> bbl
144 2016-09-17T06:36:02  <rebroad> gmaxwell, ok, was not expecting that response. well, there may be other opportunities. please feel free to let me know of future opportunities - I do feel I've not been communicating well, and I know from experience that I come across to people much better in person
145 2016-09-17T06:37:01  <rebroad> gmaxwell, also my workflow is pretty terrible and could do with some refinement - I would rather not be submitting commits that don't compile/run correctly :-s
146 2016-09-17T06:37:11  <gmaxwell> The same is true for many of us.
147 2016-09-17T06:37:15  * gmaxwell out &
148 2016-09-17T06:37:21  <gmaxwell> :)
149 2016-09-17T06:37:30  <rebroad> lol , you backgrounded your outness
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153 2016-09-17T07:07:26  <btcdrak> ping rebroad
154 2016-09-17T07:07:32  <rebroad> LOLing at this channels chat logs from March 23rd :)
155 2016-09-17T07:07:37  <rebroad> hi btcdrak
156 2016-09-17T07:07:44  <btcdrak> hi, PM
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172 2016-09-17T09:55:17  <GitHub88> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #8750: [qa] Refactor RPCTestHandler to prevent TimeoutExpired (master...Mf1609-qaRefactorTimeout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8750
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175 2016-09-17T11:04:01  <rebroad> cfields, just heard you are working on refactoring the p2p code... may I have a look? I have various improvements I've been working on since 2012 which I think will help, primarily with IBD
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198 2016-09-17T15:45:01  <GitHub101> [bitcoin] afk11 opened pull request #8751: RPC: Add parameter to addmultisigaddress / createmultisig to sort public keys (master...sort-multisigs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8751
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