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 10 2017-04-24T00:43:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] 1mbtxn opened pull request #10266: Update policy.h (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10266
 11 2017-04-24T00:45:34  <gmaxwell> the github review thing does not have a 'diapprove'
 12 2017-04-24T00:46:59  <BlueMatt> lol
 13 2017-04-24T00:47:07  <BlueMatt> wut
 14 2017-04-24T00:49:21  <gmaxwell> apparently everyone gets a gold star, you can only comment, approve, or request changes...
 15 2017-04-24T00:49:47  <BlueMatt> can you request that they close it?
 16 2017-04-24T00:50:06  <BlueMatt> :p
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 18 2017-04-24T00:54:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #10266: Update policy.h (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10266
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 24 2017-04-24T01:10:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof opened pull request #10267: New -readconfig argument for including external configuration files (master...feature-config-readconfig) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10267
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 55 2017-04-24T06:59:42  <wumpus> "using deep learning frameworks in bitcoin mining", that's hilarious, what bottom-of-the-barrel buzzword factory did that come out of
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 57 2017-04-24T07:00:48  <gmaxwell> lol
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 60 2017-04-24T07:06:50  <jonasschnelli> heh
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 71 2017-04-24T08:37:05  <emucode> what if... that was the deep learning that discovered asicboost? :o
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 96 2017-04-24T12:29:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1b25b6df0f08...342b9bc3907e
 97 2017-04-24T12:29:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c21cbe6 Pieter Wuille: Introduce FastRandomContext::randbool()
 98 2017-04-24T12:29:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 663fbae Pieter Wuille: FastRandom benchmark
 99 2017-04-24T12:29:13  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e04326f Pieter Wuille: Add ChaCha20
100 2017-04-24T12:29:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9792: FastRandomContext improvements and switch to ChaCha20 (master...chacha) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9792
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103 2017-04-24T12:52:22  <BlueMatt> wumpus: the same bottom-of-the-barrel buzzword bingo that came up with "using normal computers to simulate quantum computers to do bitcoin mining"
104 2017-04-24T12:54:00  <wumpus> BlueMatt: ah yes the "apply all the buzzwords to bitcoin mining, see what sticks" approach
105 2017-04-24T12:54:08  <sipa> BlueMatt: i'm almost done splitting up pertxoutcache into more reasonable pieces... prepare to review 25 commits :)
106 2017-04-24T12:54:50  <wumpus> "bitcoin mining on mars"
107 2017-04-24T12:55:45  <jtimon> uff, none of those are preparation commits that could be merged beforehand?
108 2017-04-24T12:56:25  <BlueMatt> sipa: god damn it
109 2017-04-24T12:56:43  <BlueMatt> jtimon: several already have been split out into separate prs, I think :)
110 2017-04-24T12:57:11  <BlueMatt> sipa: anyway, you're gonna have to wait until i spend two days on morcos' fee estimation stuff first, I think
111 2017-04-24T12:57:16  <jtimon> BlueMatt: what about using deep learning to come up with software optimizations that beat sha256d asics using gpgpu?
112 2017-04-24T12:57:36  <BlueMatt> sipa: I keep getting distracted because your stuff is easier for me to review, and I need to spend a day figuring out wtf fee estimation does
113 2017-04-24T12:57:37  * jtimon goes to read open PRs by sipa
114 2017-04-24T12:58:05  <BlueMatt> jtimon: sounds good, lets raise 10 mill and then tell investors it didnt work out the next day?
115 2017-04-24T12:58:11  <BlueMatt> can split the 5 even?
116 2017-04-24T12:59:09  <BlueMatt> or is that kind of overt scam reserved for ICOs now? :/
117 2017-04-24T13:00:59  <fanquake> Not sure what an ICO is, but I heard you could raise >10 times that just by building an internet connected juicer
118 2017-04-24T13:01:51  <BlueMatt> fanquake: I figured they just got so used to squeezing investors for money all they knew how to build was something that squeezed the contents out of bags
119 2017-04-24T13:01:59  <BlueMatt> *rimshot*
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121 2017-04-24T13:03:09  <wumpus> fanquake BlueMatt lol
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123 2017-04-24T13:04:12  <wumpus> the bags weren't even blockchain connected smart property :')
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125 2017-04-24T13:09:10  <BlueMatt> wumpus: clearly we can further optimize their buzzword-compliance
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129 2017-04-24T13:14:08  <fanquake> Since we seem to be giving Boost removal a good shot for 0.15, does anyone have suggestions for replacing GetNumCores? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/util.cpp#L881
130 2017-04-24T13:14:26  <fanquake> There is std::thread::hardware_concurrency(), but that seems to count virtual cores, which I don't think we want.
131 2017-04-24T13:14:51  <BlueMatt> fanquake: I doubt we'll do boost removal for 0.15
132 2017-04-24T13:14:58  <BlueMatt> shit like BOOST_FOREACH, sure
133 2017-04-24T13:15:07  <BlueMatt> but all of boost? doubtful, there are still things we need
134 2017-04-24T13:16:37  <fanquake> Yea sorry, not the whole lot, but we can remove a decent chunk. Just looking into what else needs to be done to replace some of the less involved Boost usage.
135 2017-04-24T13:16:43  <BlueMatt> fair
136 2017-04-24T13:17:14  <wumpus> yes, it makes sense to plan ahead a bit, without immediately doing it
137 2017-04-24T13:18:12  <wumpus> right, don't count virtual cores, that used to be the case but it makes no sense for our usage
138 2017-04-24T13:19:15  <wumpus> it'd create a swarm of threads overwhelming any machine with hyperthreading (+accompanying thread stack overhead), for script validation, and there was no gain at all for that
139 2017-04-24T13:20:03  <sipa> BlueMatt: don't worry, there is no hurry
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145 2017-04-24T13:59:10  <morcos> wumpus: i don't think that is correct
146 2017-04-24T13:59:24  <morcos> suppose you have 4 cores (8 virtual cores)
147 2017-04-24T13:59:24  <wumpus> fanquake: indeed seems that std has no equivalent to physical_concurrency, on any standard. That's annoying as it is non-trivial to implement
148 2017-04-24T13:59:35  <morcos> i think running par=8 (if it let you) would be notably faster
149 2017-04-24T13:59:59  <morcos> jeremyrubin and i discussed this at length a while back... i think i commented about it on irc at the time
150 2017-04-24T14:00:21  <wumpus> morcos: I think the conclusion at the time was that it made no difference, but sure would make sense to benchmark
151 2017-04-24T14:00:39  <morcos> perhaps historical testing on the virtual vs actual cores was polluted by concurrency issues that have now improved
152 2017-04-24T14:00:47  <wumpus> I think there are not more ALUs, so there is not really a point in having more threads
153 2017-04-24T14:01:40  <wumpus> hyperthreads are basically just a stored register state right?
154 2017-04-24T14:02:23  <sipa> wumpus: yes but it helps the scheduler
155 2017-04-24T14:02:27  <wumpus> in which case the only speedup using "number of cores" threads would give you is, possibly, excluding other software from running on the cores on the same time
156 2017-04-24T14:02:36  <morcos> well this is where i get out of my depth
157 2017-04-24T14:02:50  <sipa> if one of the threads is waiting on a read from ram, the other can use the arithmetic unit for example
158 2017-04-24T14:02:54  <morcos> wumpus: i'm pretty sure though that the speed up is considerably more than what you might expect from that
159 2017-04-24T14:02:59  <wumpus> sipa: ok, I back down, I didn't want to argue this at all
160 2017-04-24T14:03:34  <morcos> the reason i haven't tested it myself, is the machine i usually use has 16 cores... so not easy due to remaining concurrency issues to get much more speedup
161 2017-04-24T14:03:36  <wumpus> I'm fine with restoring it to number of virtual threads if that's faster
162 2017-04-24T14:03:54  <morcos> we should have somene with 4 cores (and 8) actually test it though, i agree
163 2017-04-24T14:03:58  <sipa> i would expect (but we should benchmark...) that if 8 scriot validation threads instead of 4 on a quadcore hyperthreading is not faster, it's due to lock contention
164 2017-04-24T14:04:20  <morcos> sipa: yeah thats my point, i think lock contention isn't that bad with 8 now
165 2017-04-24T14:04:22  <wumpus> on 64-bit systems the additional thread overhead wouldn't be important at least
166 2017-04-24T14:04:23  <gmaxwell> I previously benchmarked, a long time ago, it was faster.
167 2017-04-24T14:04:33  <gmaxwell> (to use the HT core count)
168 2017-04-24T14:04:44  <wumpus> why was this changed at all then?
169 2017-04-24T14:04:47  <wumpus> I'm confused
170 2017-04-24T14:05:04  <sipa> good question!
171 2017-04-24T14:05:06  <gmaxwell> I had no idea we changed it.
172 2017-04-24T14:05:25  <wumpus> sigh :(
173 2017-04-24T14:05:54  <gmaxwell> What PR changed it?
174 2017-04-24T14:06:50  <gmaxwell> In any case, on 32-bit it's probably a good tradeoff... the extra ram overhead is worth avoiding.
175 2017-04-24T14:07:22  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6361
176 2017-04-24T14:07:28  <gmaxwell> PR 6461 btw.
177 2017-04-24T14:07:37  <gmaxwell> er lol at least you got it right.
178 2017-04-24T14:07:45  <wumpus> the complaint was that systems became unsuably slow when using that many thread
179 2017-04-24T14:07:51  <wumpus> so at least I got one thing right, woohoo
180 2017-04-24T14:07:54  <sipa> seems i even acked it!
181 2017-04-24T14:07:57  <BlueMatt> wumpus: there are more alus
182 2017-04-24T14:08:38  <BlueMatt> but we need to improve lock contention first
183 2017-04-24T14:08:39  <morcos> anywya, i think in the past the lock contention made 8 threads regardless of cores a bit dicey.. now that is much better (although more still to be done)
184 2017-04-24T14:09:01  <BlueMatt> or we can just merge #10192, thats fee
185 2017-04-24T14:09:04  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10192 | Cache full script execution results in addition to signatures by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #10192 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
186 2017-04-24T14:09:10  <BlueMatt> s/fee/free/
187 2017-04-24T14:09:20  <morcos> no, we do not need to improve lock contention first.   but we should probably do that before we increase the max beyond 16
188 2017-04-24T14:09:26  <BlueMatt> then we can toss concurrency issues out the window and get more speedup anyway
189 2017-04-24T14:09:35  <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea, well in QT I thought we also diminished the count by 1 or something?  but yes, if the motivation was to reduce how heavily the machine was used, thats fair.
190 2017-04-24T14:09:56  <sipa> the benefit of using HT cores is certainly not a factor 2
191 2017-04-24T14:09:58  <wumpus> gmaxwell: for the default I think this makes a lot of sense, yes
192 2017-04-24T14:10:10  <gmaxwell> morcos: right now on my 24/28 physical core hosts going beyond 16 still reduces performance.
193 2017-04-24T14:10:11  <wumpus> gmaxwell: do we also restrict the maximum par using this? that'd make less sense
194 2017-04-24T14:10:50  <wumpus> if someone *wants* to use the virtual cores they should be able to by setting -par=
195 2017-04-24T14:10:51  * sipa flies to US
196 2017-04-24T14:10:51  <BlueMatt> sipa: sure, but the shared cache helps us get more out of it than some others, as morcos points out
197 2017-04-24T14:11:30  <BlueMatt> (because it means our thread contention issues are less)
198 2017-04-24T14:12:05  <morcos> gmaxwell: yeah i've been bogged down in fee estimation as well (and the rest of life) for a while now.. otherwise i would have put more effort into jeremy's checkqueue
199 2017-04-24T14:12:36  <BlueMatt> morcos: heh, well now you can do other stuff while the rest of us get bogged down in understanding fee estimation enough to review it :p
200 2017-04-24T14:12:37  <wumpus> [to answer my own question: no, the limit for par is MAX_SCRIPTCHECK_THREADS, or 16]
201 2017-04-24T14:12:54  <morcos> but to me optimizing for more than 16 cores is pretty valuable as miners could use beefy machines and be less concerned by block validation time
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203 2017-04-24T14:14:38  <BlueMatt> morcos: i think you may be surprised by the number of mining pools that are on VPSes that do not have 16 cores :/
204 2017-04-24T14:15:34  <gmaxwell> I assume right now most of the time block validation is bogged in the parts that are not as concurrent. simple because caching makes the concurrent parts so fast. (and soon to hopefully increase with bluematt's patch)
205 2017-04-24T14:17:55  <gmaxwell> improving sha2 speed, or transaction malloc overhead are probably bigger wins now for connection at the tip than parallelism beyond 16 (though I'd like that too).
206 2017-04-24T14:18:21  <BlueMatt> sha2 speed is big
207 2017-04-24T14:18:27  <morcos> yeah lots of things to do actually...
208 2017-04-24T14:18:57  <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: might be a tiny bit less big if we didn't hash the block header 8 times for every block. :P
209 2017-04-24T14:21:27  <BlueMatt> ehh, probably, but I'm less rushed there
210 2017-04-24T14:21:43  <BlueMatt> my new cache thing is about to add a bunch of hashing
211 2017-04-24T14:21:50  <BlueMatt> 1 sha round per tx
212 2017-04-24T14:22:25  <BlueMatt> and sigcache is obviously a ton
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214 2017-04-24T14:47:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 7 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/342b9bc3907e...fa1ac2881f2a
215 2017-04-24T14:47:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 71afe3c Wladimir J. van der Laan: wallet: Introduce database handle wrapper...
216 2017-04-24T14:47:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 071c955 Wladimir J. van der Laan: wallet: Get rid of fFileBacked...
217 2017-04-24T14:47:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master be9e1a9 Wladimir J. van der Laan: wallet: Reduce references to global bitdb environment
218 2017-04-24T14:47:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9951: Wallet database handling abstractions/simplifications (master...2017_03_wallet_dbwrapper) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9951
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223 2017-04-24T14:58:28  <wumpus> fanquake: re: #10260, how is homebrew versioned? should the instructions always apply to only the latest version?
224 2017-04-24T14:58:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10260 | [doc] Minor corrections to osx dependencies by fanquake · Pull Request #10260 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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252 2017-04-24T20:00:01  * BlueMatt is still so confused as to why he has to manually build util.cpp without lto to get a full-bitcoind lto build to work
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257 2017-04-24T20:37:01  <achow101> gmaxwell: any update on publishing that alert key?
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280 2017-04-24T23:08:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fa1ac2881f2a...c73af5416b66
281 2017-04-24T23:08:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 344a2c4 Pieter Wuille: Add support for std::unordered_{map,set} to memusage.h
282 2017-04-24T23:08:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e6756ad Pieter Wuille: Switch CCoinsMap from boost to std unordered_map
283 2017-04-24T23:08:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c73af54 Pieter Wuille: Merge #10249: Switch CCoinsMap from boost to std unordered_map...
284 2017-04-24T23:08:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #10249: Switch CCoinsMap from boost to std unordered_map (master...stdcoinmap) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10249
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