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  7 2017-07-01T00:53:25  <AdrianG> whats the alt stack for in bitcoin script?
  8 2017-07-01T00:54:19  <luke-jr> AdrianG: an alternate stack
  9 2017-07-01T00:55:12  <AdrianG> so its a two-stack pushdown automata then?
 10 2017-07-01T00:55:57  <AdrianG> are the stacks fully equivalent?
 11 2017-07-01T00:56:21  <sipa> bitcoin script is not a pushdown automata
 12 2017-07-01T00:56:31  <sipa> because it has OP_PICK
 13 2017-07-01T00:57:51  <sipa> code has access to all elements, always, not just the top
 14 2017-07-01T00:58:05  <luke-jr> AdrianG: no, the alt stack is wiped between scripts, and has fewer opcodes to use it
 15 2017-07-01T00:58:19  * luke-jr OP_PICKs sipa
 16 2017-07-01T00:58:25  <AdrianG> sipa: that sounds like it would be a superset of a PDA then?
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 18 2017-07-01T01:07:21  <sipa> it also follows intructions, not a state transition table
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 32 2017-07-01T02:31:20  <gmaxwell> AdrianG: you can rewrite any script using the altstack without it (just using pick).  The altstack is there for the same reason that it's there in any forth implementation-- its a convenience and can result in fewer operations for some things.
 33 2017-07-01T02:31:39  <gmaxwell> apparently you've heard this craig wright stuff, it's pure gibberish.
 34 2017-07-01T02:33:23  <gmaxwell> (he was sending it to me on reddit several weeks ago too: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/temp/DSScamamoto.png )
 35 2017-07-01T02:34:07  <gmaxwell> AdrianG: his gibbering is basically trying to argue that script is universal but you don't need any of this technobable to show that, all you need to show is that it has a controlled-not.
 36 2017-07-01T02:34:39  <gmaxwell> That doesn't mean much of anything interesting though because there are very tight limits on how much computation you can do (which is why it isn't turing complete)
 37 2017-07-01T02:36:25  <gmaxwell> Wright is doing some pattern matching with finite state machines, where there is a well known result that one equipt with two 'stacks' (which are not like the forth-like stacks in bitcoin, but are simple things where you can only access the top elements) can be universal.
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 42 2017-07-01T03:43:22  <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no wonder wright hates you....you dont trivially fall for stupid technobabble like so many others
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 54 2017-07-01T06:50:28  <wumpus> craig wright hates us all
 55 2017-07-01T06:50:46  <wumpus> but yes that's a good thing
 56 2017-07-01T06:52:49  <wumpus> results from yesterday's benchmark sync up to block 430241: 0.14.2 took 08:12:29 (29549s), master took 06:20:57 (22857s), so ~23% faster
 57 2017-07-01T06:53:46  <wumpus> really neat
 58 2017-07-01T06:55:18  <wumpus> both with default dbcache setting
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 63 2017-07-01T07:37:16  <wumpus> going to time catch-up syncs from there to tip as well
 64 2017-07-01T07:39:01  <wumpus> might be interesting to plot the validation times per block w/ debug=bench too
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 66 2017-07-01T09:01:40  <wumpus> not only is the sync faster, it seems to have less impact on the rest of the system, catching up the chain used to make any other things like browsing impossible on this system. Doesn't seem to be so much a CPU difference  (CPU wasn't maxed out in either case) but memory usage/IO related.
 67 2017-07-01T09:05:23  <gmaxwell> yea, I've noticed that too. Some of it I think might be the big peak memory usage and gigantic all at once writes was blowing out buffers.
 68 2017-07-01T09:06:39  <wumpus> indeed!
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 71 2017-07-01T09:23:45  <phantomcircuit> the configure scripts dont seem to be able to find db5.3 on gentoo
 72 2017-07-01T09:23:47  <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, any idea what's wrong here?
 73 2017-07-01T09:24:23  <phantomcircuit> (and yes i know it's supported to be db 4.8 but i have a wallet that's 5.3)
 74 2017-07-01T09:24:46  <luke-jr> nope, sorry
 75 2017-07-01T09:24:58  <luke-jr> I assume you used --with-incompatible-bdb?
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 77 2017-07-01T09:25:31  <phantomcircuit> yeah
 78 2017-07-01T09:25:47  <phantomcircuit> checking the config.log there's no mention of even looking for 5.3
 79 2017-07-01T09:25:55  <phantomcircuit> i wonder if something got removed on accident
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131 2017-07-01T23:36:13  <kanzure> "frustrating that the RPC isn't versioned and massively breaking changes like this are just introduced without any versioning and/or flags"  i guess something like that could work, shouldn't getblock start throwing up warnings at least even if not versioned?
132 2017-07-01T23:36:34  <kanzure> s/shouldn't/couldn't/ is more accurately my question.
133 2017-07-01T23:42:30  <sipa> kanzure: ?
134 2017-07-01T23:42:34  <sipa> what is the context?
135 2017-07-01T23:42:47  <sipa> we try very hard not to break RPC
136 2017-07-01T23:42:54  <kanzure> btcd issue tracker someone is complaining about getblock/testnet/segwit
137 2017-07-01T23:43:02  <sipa> oh, btcd
138 2017-07-01T23:44:15  <kanzure> yes but the complaint is about bitcoind rpc versioning not btcd rpc versioning
139 2017-07-01T23:44:46  <sipa> hmm, what was broken?
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