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 13 2017-07-28T01:13:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] gmaxwell opened pull request #10945: Update defaultAssumeValid according to release-process.md. (master...201707-update-assumevalid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10945
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 53 2017-07-28T05:19:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #10946: Add chainwork to getchaintxstats (master...20170727_chainworkstats) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10946
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 57 2017-07-28T05:33:22  <gmaxwell> sipa: should I add updating ChainTxData to the PR I have for the assumevalid?
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 63 2017-07-28T05:50:24  <sipa> gmaxwell: ?
 64 2017-07-28T05:51:01  <gmaxwell> sipa: I have a PR open to update the assumevalid, I could update chainTxData too, I was reminded by your above PR.
 65 2017-07-28T05:55:54  <wumpus> profall: it's really useful for giving whole UTXOs away
 66 2017-07-28T05:56:33  <wumpus> (or alternatively, sending them to some other wallet of yourself, but the idea is to not have to add anything extra for fee, resulting in change)
 67 2017-07-28T05:57:04  <wumpus> this used to be a process of bisection
 68 2017-07-28T05:59:10  <sipa> gmaxwell: ah, i see!
 69 2017-07-28T05:59:22  <sipa> i just wrote thst PR to verify your nMinimumChainWork
 70 2017-07-28T05:59:55  <gmaxwell> sipa: yes, I responded to that PR to point out that the info is already in getblockchaininfo, the release process docs tell you how to verify it. :)
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 73 2017-07-28T06:07:40  <wumpus> "The fee rate (in %s/kB) used to discard change (to fee) if it would be dust at this fee rate (default: %s) Note: We will always discard up to the dust relay fee and a discard fee above that is limited by the longest target fee estimate"
 74 2017-07-28T06:07:44  <wumpus> this confuses translators
 75 2017-07-28T06:08:28  <wumpus> - "the dust relay fee" -- this sounds like a fee applied to relaying dust; is it?
 76 2017-07-28T06:08:37  <wumpus> - "a discard fee" -- this sounds like a fee applied when discarding something, which is probably isn't. Does it relate to the fee rate which seems to be the main topic of this string?
 77 2017-07-28T06:08:49  <wumpus> - "discard change (to fee)" -- perhaps the explanation in the parentheses could be more precise. Does this suggest that the change is added to the fee in case it is otherwise considered dust? Then perhaps the parentheses may say something like "(by adding change to the fee instead)"?
 78 2017-07-28T06:09:01  <wumpus> - "longest target fee estimate" -- which of the other words does "longest" relate to here? Could this be rewritten as "longest estimete of the target fee", or perhaps "fee estimate of the longest target", or something else?
 79 2017-07-28T06:10:12  <wumpus> is this a user-servicable option at all? if not, might I propose moving it to debug-help wholesale and not translating it?
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 81 2017-07-28T06:15:28  <wumpus> it uses too many internal technical terms that appear nowhere else, which indicates that someone that doesn't know internal wallet logic has no business setting it
 82 2017-07-28T06:16:36  <sipa> longest refers to long term estimate, i believe
 83 2017-07-28T06:16:55  <sipa> i would agree with making it an expert/debug option
 84 2017-07-28T06:19:54  <gmaxwell> I don't think the target thing should really be a user servisable option.
 85 2017-07-28T06:20:02  <gmaxwell> The discard threshold is.
 86 2017-07-28T06:20:51  <wumpus> this is about 'discardfee=<amt>'
 87 2017-07-28T06:20:57  <wumpus> well if so, it needs better documentation
 88 2017-07-28T06:22:26  <wumpus> this is from a person that has been translating bitcoin strings to Danish for a long time, I think it's a good indication that if he doesn't understand any of it, no other non-dev will
 89 2017-07-28T06:22:42  <gmaxwell> Right!
 90 2017-07-28T06:25:03  <wumpus> this again makes me doubt whether it makes sense to translate option helps at all. It's a bit like translating obscure error messages - having a variant of the technical terms in every language doesn't make it easier to look for
 91 2017-07-28T06:25:22  <wumpus> especially if the translators don't understand it and just do a literal translation
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114 2017-07-28T09:27:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] NicolasDorier opened pull request #10947: [Wallet] Bare segwit scriptPubKey are not considered change by the wallet (master...importaddresssegwit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10947
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127 2017-07-28T10:28:00  <promag> wumpus: I think #10885 is ready
128 2017-07-28T10:28:02  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10885 | Reject invalid wallets by promag · Pull Request #10885 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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130 2017-07-28T10:39:58  <wumpus> promag: thanks
131 2017-07-28T10:43:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #10948: p2p: Hardcoded seeds update pre-0.15 branch (master...2017_07_seeds_update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10948
132 2017-07-28T10:51:55  <sipa> wumpus: we have a number of obvious but invasive scripted refactors... what is your opinion on what a good time for those is?
133 2017-07-28T10:52:45  <sipa> i was thinking (assuming they're acceptable, of course), that right before branching may be advisable, so as to not hurt backportability of fixes
134 2017-07-28T10:53:45  <sipa> that does go against the idea of not having invasive changes after freeze
135 2017-07-28T10:54:14  <wumpus> sipa: well as long as they're not features, straightforward, and low-risk, it could be ok
136 2017-07-28T10:55:02  <gmaxwell> My view is that getting those kinds of safe refactors in before branching is good because it helps backports.
137 2017-07-28T10:55:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0b11a0784875...70888a39c43a
138 2017-07-28T10:55:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3ef77a0 João Barbosa: Reject duplicate wallet filenames
139 2017-07-28T10:55:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a6da027 João Barbosa: Reject invalid wallet files
140 2017-07-28T10:55:36  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d84e78e John Newbery: [wallet] Specify wallet name in wallet loading errors
141 2017-07-28T10:56:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10885: Reject invalid wallets (master...2017-07-prevent-duplicate-wallets) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10885
142 2017-07-28T10:56:41  <wumpus> well it seems to be quite quiet this time before branch, so it seems we could get around to that
143 2017-07-28T10:56:50  <wumpus> which ones is this about?
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145 2017-07-28T11:17:22  <sipa> wumpus: #10483 at elast
146 2017-07-28T11:17:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10483 | scripted-diff: Use the C++11 keyword nullptr to denote the pointer literal instead of the macro NULL by practicalswift · Pull Request #10483 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
147 2017-07-28T11:18:10  <sipa> #10607
148 2017-07-28T11:18:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10607 | scripted-diff: stop using the gArgs wrappers by benma · Pull Request #10607 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
149 2017-07-28T11:19:05  <sipa> i assumed there were more, but they're not scripted
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151 2017-07-28T11:26:27  <wumpus> tagged them for 0.15
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171 2017-07-28T13:24:17  <morcos> wumpus: re: -discardfee help
172 2017-07-28T13:24:31  <morcos> I agree it is a slightly involved concept
173 2017-07-28T13:24:59  <morcos> I originally had a shorter message but ryanofsky asked me to include the information about its interaction with dust and estimates
174 2017-07-28T13:25:32  <morcos> It's almost like that more technical information should only be included if you have showDebug
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177 2017-07-28T13:26:25  <wumpus> yes, the problem is not so much that there is extra information, but that it refers to all kinds of terms that are unknown to users
178 2017-07-28T13:26:26  <morcos> I kind of agree with gmaxwell that this is kind of a user serviceable option.  It's your tolerance for throwing money away to fee rather than creating a small output
179 2017-07-28T13:26:45  <wumpus> maybe that's a better help message :)
180 2017-07-28T13:27:02  <wumpus> those are terms everyone can relate to :-)
181 2017-07-28T13:27:42  <morcos> The only issue is where the correct place is to document how it interacts with these other things... but perhaps the code is sufficient
182 2017-07-28T13:27:48  <wumpus> but yeah the question is when someone would set it
183 2017-07-28T13:28:10  <wumpus> heh it's almost as if having only option documentation isn't enough anymore
184 2017-07-28T13:28:40  <wumpus> not that we have any kind of other documentation where this would be a good place for :/
185 2017-07-28T13:28:43  <morcos> I'm guessing they would set it if they wonder why they are occasionally paying a higher fee and they are really trying to avoid that
186 2017-07-28T13:28:55  <morcos> You know.. maybe we should just move it to be a debug option
187 2017-07-28T13:29:32  <morcos> Well I'm wiling to change it whichever way we think is best
188 2017-07-28T13:30:40  <wumpus> as I said, another option would be to never translate command line option help at all, I don't think descriptions like this will be improved by translation in most cases
189 2017-07-28T13:31:13  <morcos> Yes or could we just not have them translate the "Note:" part
190 2017-07-28T13:31:29  <wumpus> translation would be ideally used for things like UI messages that use normal english, and a set of defined common terms for the application
191 2017-07-28T13:31:47  <wumpus> there's not really any win in translating concepts we've made up ourselves
192 2017-07-28T13:32:29  <wumpus> yeah
193 2017-07-28T13:33:02  <morcos> The fee rate (in %s/kB) that indicates your tolerance used for discarding change by adding it to the fee. (default: %s) Note: An output is discarded if it is dust at this rate, but we will always discard up to the dust relay fee and a discard fee above that is limited by the longest target fee estimate
194 2017-07-28T13:33:06  <wumpus> what is funny, in practice the command-line options are only translated when you call --help through bitcoin-qt, not when using bitcoind
195 2017-07-28T13:33:17  <wumpus> (the latter doesn't contain the translation data)
196 2017-07-28T13:33:28  <morcos> s/used//
197 2017-07-28T13:35:03  <morcos> 1.) Change to above   2) Change to above and delete note.   A) Move to Debug option
198 2017-07-28T13:35:05  <wumpus> morcos: better!
199 2017-07-28T13:35:12  <morcos> I'm fine with 1,2,1A,2A or nothing
200 2017-07-28T13:38:12  <wumpus> I'm fine with all as well, but 1 seems best
201 2017-07-28T13:38:41  <morcos> will do
202 2017-07-28T13:44:39  <sipa> morcos: it is user servicable? things will may go badly though if you set if sufficiently different from the rest of the network, no?
203 2017-07-28T13:47:46  <morcos> sipa: how do you mean?
204 2017-07-28T13:48:14  <morcos> no, it is only used to increase what would be already thrown away by the dustrelayfee
205 2017-07-28T13:48:43  <morcos> which is also an option but i agree a non-user-servicable one that should not be changed
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207 2017-07-28T13:50:40  <morcos> actually not sure if we are there yet, but ideally once we have this option, then it should be fine to lower the dustrelayfee to accomplish greg's goal of no longer having that concept, as long as your discardfee doesn't go below the OLD dustrelayfee.
208 2017-07-28T13:51:02  <morcos> but there are some slight other issues there such as with fee estimation
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210 2017-07-28T13:55:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] morcos opened pull request #10949: Clarify help message for -discardfee (master...betterhelp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10949
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231 2017-07-28T15:15:03  <Lightsword> for #10301 should I leave getentropy via sys/random.h as OSX only or try and generalize it?
232 2017-07-28T15:15:04  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10301 | Check if sys/random.h is required for getentropy. by jameshilliard · Pull Request #10301 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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241 2017-07-28T15:38:40  <jonasschnelli> Lightsword: I guess it makes sense on OSX 10.12(+) ..
242 2017-07-28T15:42:57  <jonasschnelli> Lightsword: Do you expect other operating systems providing getentropy() via sys/random.h?
243 2017-07-28T15:43:49  <Lightsword> jonasschnelli, well looks like it’s there on solaris but I don’t really have a way to test against that, OSX also uses the weak import fork backwards compatibility
244 2017-07-28T15:45:02  <jonasschnelli> Lightsword: By "generalize" you mean removing the  && defined(MAC_OSX)?
245 2017-07-28T15:45:08  <Lightsword> yeah
246 2017-07-28T15:45:36  <jonasschnelli> I don't see a reason why not do to that.
247 2017-07-28T15:46:23  <Lightsword> well there was a glibc issue right?
248 2017-07-28T15:46:26  <jonasschnelli> But maybe ask cfields what he things
249 2017-07-28T15:46:29  <jonasschnelli> thinks
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259 2017-07-28T16:13:06  <wumpus> Lightsword: I'd make it macosx specific
260 2017-07-28T16:13:28  <wumpus> we should vet OSes where using getentropy is safe one by one
261 2017-07-28T16:13:30  <Lightsword> wumpus, yeah I went that way since there was an openbsd specific version
262 2017-07-28T16:13:35  <wumpus> right.
263 2017-07-28T16:17:59  <wumpus> I initially made it too generalized, which caused a few issues (with linux, for example) in the first place
264 2017-07-28T16:18:32  <wumpus> not serious issues with randomness, luckily, but build problems
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334 2017-07-28T21:44:14  <kanzure> sendtoaddress doesn't seem to do any chaining off of other sendtoaddress-constructed unconfirmed outputs. and getbalance doesn't have a flag to ignore amounts stuck in unconfirmed sendtoaddress-generated outputs. i think fundrawtransaction is my only option, is that right?
335 2017-07-28T21:47:34  <kanzure> i guess i could use listunspent minconf=1 and check if the result is empty and/or take the sum of the amounts if any.
336 2017-07-28T21:50:04  <kanzure> anyway, the getbalance RPC docstring could at least mention that it is a highly promiscuous definition of available, and the sendtoaddress docstring could mention the lack of chaining..
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340 2017-07-28T22:00:43  <sipa> kanzure: well getbalance follows the mempool's rules for availability... and long chains of dependent transactions don't get into the mempool
341 2017-07-28T22:01:45  <sipa> getbalance will aim to avoid spending low-confirmation count outputs, and avoid long-ubconfirmed-chain outputs if possible
342 2017-07-28T22:03:09  <kanzure> my use case was very simple, i had mined some initial blocks, needed to spend them somewhere, was spending a bunch of tiny amounts, exhausted available utxos; my test was checking getbalance and mining a block if the balance was below some threshold. but the balance is reported as very high despite having no sendtoaddress-spendable coins, oops.
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350 2017-07-28T22:49:22  <kanzure> also, how do i debug "insufficient fee" in regtest mode? the transaction is 3528 bytes paying 30 sat/byte (so 105840 sat).
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