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 56 2017-07-31T05:01:35  <bryyan> if Bitcoin core is written in C++, why not support any kind of native interface directly (numbers as represented in memory going over tcp sockets as an RPC opposed to the serialised JSON RPC) ?
 57 2017-07-31T05:02:55  <gmaxwell> because either it exposes internal datastructures which are unstable and change from version to version to outside applications;  or it has to specify yet another encoding.
 58 2017-07-31T05:03:13  <gmaxwell> and we do already have a binary encoding for most thigns: use the p2p protocol.
 59 2017-07-31T05:04:23  <bryyan> I mean't like json but in a C struct
 60 2017-07-31T05:04:45  <bryyan> and not a char* but between applications you would include a .h file containing the structs
 61 2017-07-31T05:07:07  <sipa> structs don't have a well-defined serialization to bytes
 62 2017-07-31T05:07:20  <bryyan> on the same architecture they do
 63 2017-07-31T05:07:22  <sipa> different architectures store them differently in memory
 64 2017-07-31T05:07:32  <sipa> just a different compilation option may change them
 65 2017-07-31T05:07:46  <bryyan> yes, but why write bitcoin core in c++, a platform dependent language under many circumstances?
 66 2017-07-31T05:08:31  <bryyan> additionally its often feasible to have multiple AMD64 machines which use the same format for C variables
 67 2017-07-31T05:08:50  <sipa> efficiency, tight control over resource usage, high-level
 68 2017-07-31T05:09:08  <bryyan> JSON is kind of cpu intensive to cast back and forth between native types you know
 69 2017-07-31T05:09:20  <bryyan> directly copying 4 bytes of memory is far cheaper
 70 2017-07-31T05:09:20  <sipa> you can use REST
 71 2017-07-31T05:09:33  <bryyan> what is REST?
 72 2017-07-31T05:09:42  <sipa> for some data with well-defined serialization, Bitcoin Core has a REST interface
 73 2017-07-31T05:09:59  <sipa> you can fetch full blocks and transactions directly in binary network format over it
 74 2017-07-31T05:10:13  <bryyan> without having to send a bunch of ascii json around?
 75 2017-07-31T05:10:15  <sipa> to avoid the JSON encoding/decoding overhead
 76 2017-07-31T05:10:15  <sipa> yes
 77 2017-07-31T05:10:38  <sipa> but you still need a serialization/deserialization layer... it's not just a struct that gets sent over the network
 78 2017-07-31T05:10:51  <bryyan> yes, but I'm looking for just that
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 80 2017-07-31T05:11:24  <bryyan> I assume I have 2 machines of identical architecture and the fastest means of transfering data is in native format
 81 2017-07-31T05:11:33  <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/REST-interface.md
 82 2017-07-31T05:11:42  <sipa> there is no 'native' format
 83 2017-07-31T05:11:59  <bryyan> a C int type is native by my definition
 84 2017-07-31T05:12:12  <bryyan> will look identical on 2 AMD64 machines
 85 2017-07-31T05:12:16  <sipa> what's the native representation for a transaction?
 86 2017-07-31T05:12:35  <sipa> it has a number of nested data structure of variable size
 87 2017-07-31T05:12:40  <gmaxwell> none of the interesting data in bitcoin is just an int or a simple arrays of them.
 88 2017-07-31T05:13:01  <gmaxwell> and as I said above, we do have a binary seralization of data: the p2p format.
 89 2017-07-31T05:13:04  <bryyan> if you query for your balance, a float or double could work as a returned native type
 90 2017-07-31T05:13:07  <gmaxwell> all ready for anyone to use.
 91 2017-07-31T05:13:18  <gmaxwell> oh jesus bitcoin amounts aren't natively floating point.
 92 2017-07-31T05:13:29  <gmaxwell> one should generally not use floating point when dealing with money.
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 94 2017-07-31T05:13:56  <sipa> bryyan: the cost of computing the balance is orders of magnitude larger than running a json deserializers
 95 2017-07-31T05:13:59  <bryyan> you know, floating point has a certain number of digits of accuracy, just don't go too far
 96 2017-07-31T05:14:23  <bryyan> I don't think we're talking about the same thing
 97 2017-07-31T05:14:32  <sipa> fine
 98 2017-07-31T05:15:04  <bryyan> in a native binary (such as bitcoind) certain instructions are applied to do math with integers and floating point types, the format of those values in memory are the native types
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101 2017-07-31T05:16:31  <bryyan> pretty printed json is like 64 bytes to represent a 4-byte int
102 2017-07-31T05:16:34  <bryyan> very slow
103 2017-07-31T05:17:49  <bryyan> additional information is transfered over the network when keeping a header file with bitcoind and with the RPC client containing C macros which resolve to short 2-byte sequences for calls, and structs for reciving will take up far less thoroughput
104 2017-07-31T05:18:08  <bryyan> and after the word network there should be a comma I meant to put
105 2017-07-31T05:18:52  <bryyan> if you've written programs in C you would know what I'm talking about
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108 2017-07-31T05:25:37  <praxeology> bryyan: how about create software and find the RPC api as a bottleneck before you look to optimize it
109 2017-07-31T05:26:22  <bryyan> for one thing, C doesn't handle JSON very well
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111 2017-07-31T05:26:31  <bryyan> although thats more of a side problem
112 2017-07-31T05:28:41  <phantomcircuit> bryyan, the question you want to be asking yourself right now is
113 2017-07-31T05:28:43  <phantomcircuit> BUT WHY
114 2017-07-31T05:30:01  <bryyan> largely because I plan to make an operating system, and JSON puts in wayyy to much computational overhead compared to even a native-type conversion service
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116 2017-07-31T05:30:43  <bryyan> you can convert endianness, format, and signing polarity far quicker then serialising and de-serialising some json
117 2017-07-31T05:31:50  <gmaxwell> Go away earlygrey.
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119 2017-07-31T05:35:11  <bryyan> you could probably process 10s of requests in native format by the time a single JSON request completes
120 2017-07-31T05:35:28  <bryyan> maybe even 100s with a well-optimized binary
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125 2017-07-31T06:26:01  <luke-jr> bryyan: jansson handles JSON good enough
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131 2017-07-31T06:52:59  <praxeology> luke-jr: did you see he is making an operating system?
132 2017-07-31T06:53:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #10958: Update to latest Bitcoin patches for LevelDB (master...20170731_leveldb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10958
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142 2017-07-31T07:33:28  <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: The issue is that the last commit of #10853 conflicts with other pulls tagged for 0.15
143 2017-07-31T07:33:30  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10853 | [tests] Fix RPC failure testing (again) by jnewbery · Pull Request #10853 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
144 2017-07-31T07:33:45  <MarcoFalke> At this point I'd prefer if we didn't force a rebase on tagged pulls
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146 2017-07-31T07:40:16  <jnewbery> MarcoFalke: I'm happy for 10853 to wait until after rc1
147 2017-07-31T07:40:28  <jnewbery> Unless you want it before, in which case I'll split it
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150 2017-07-31T07:43:51  <MarcoFalke> Fine, let's defer it for now.
151 2017-07-31T07:44:05  <Oscillate> Hi,
152 2017-07-31T07:45:46  <Oscillate> New to bitcoin here, can somebody tell me if the split is neccecary fot bitcoin hardfork ??
153 2017-07-31T07:45:55  <sipa> Oscillate: #bitcoin
154 2017-07-31T07:46:00  <Oscillate> for*
155 2017-07-31T07:46:07  <Oscillate> thank you sipa
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159 2017-07-31T07:57:26  <luke-jr> wumpus: can I get access to bitcoin-devwiki? seems github is picky about pushing changes via git/ssh :/
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163 2017-07-31T08:12:41  <luke-jr> copypa;ted for no,
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167 2017-07-31T08:45:42  <jnewbery> Hmmm, https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/ seems to have a gap between https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2017-07-28/?msg=89162968&page=1 and https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2017-07-31/?msg=89185019&page=1 . Are there any other public archives?
168 2017-07-31T08:46:20  *** J-wolf has quit IRC
169 2017-07-31T08:46:36  <jnewbery> (I have my own logs, but it's useful to be able to send a URL)
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171 2017-07-31T08:47:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/70888a39c43a...2a50b11586a2
172 2017-07-31T08:47:13  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9a8b054 Gregory Maxwell: Update defaultAssumeValid according to release-process.md....
173 2017-07-31T08:47:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2a50b11 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10945: Update defaultAssumeValid according to release-process.md....
174 2017-07-31T08:47:15  *** J-wolf has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
175 2017-07-31T08:47:53  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10945: Update defaultAssumeValid according to release-process.md. (master...201707-update-assumevalid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10945
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185 2017-07-31T09:35:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2a50b11586a2...df3a6f4ee4e2
186 2017-07-31T09:35:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f0acedd Wladimir J. van der Laan: p2p: Hardcoded seeds update pre-0.15 branch
187 2017-07-31T09:35:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master df3a6f4 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10948: p2p: Hardcoded seeds update pre-0.15 branch...
188 2017-07-31T09:36:14  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10948: p2p: Hardcoded seeds update pre-0.15 branch (master...2017_07_seeds_update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10948
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193 2017-07-31T10:03:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/df3a6f4ee4e2...af563971fcbe
194 2017-07-31T10:03:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bdd5543 Alex Morcos: Clarify help message for -discardfee
195 2017-07-31T10:03:57  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master af56397 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10949: Clarify help message for -discardfee...
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197 2017-07-31T10:04:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10949: Clarify help message for -discardfee (master...betterhelp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10949
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200 2017-07-31T10:25:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/42307c4bf363d695c68a65ba7cbf8d6790079abf
201 2017-07-31T10:25:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 42307c4 Wladimir J. van der Laan: qt: Periodic translations update...
202 2017-07-31T10:32:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10961: Improve readability of DecodeBase58Check(...) (master...DecodeBase58Check-cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10961
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278 2017-07-31T15:05:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10963: [bench] Restore format state of cout after printing with std::fixed/setprecision (master...restore-format-state-of-cout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10963
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281 2017-07-31T15:24:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10964: Pass SendCoinsRecipient (208 bytes) and CConnman::Options (168 bytes) by reference (master...pass-big-parameters-by-reference) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10964
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293 2017-07-31T16:05:15  <BlueMatt> #8330 could get a merge, tbh, its a free few-10s-of-k memory win
294 2017-07-31T16:05:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8330 | Structure Packing Optimizations in C{,Mutable}Transaction by JeremyRubin · Pull Request #8330 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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324 2017-07-31T17:51:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10965: Use the noexcept specifier (C++11) instead of deprecated throw() (master...noexcept) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10965
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335 2017-07-31T18:50:37  <achow101> whoever runs the doxygen site at dev.visucore.com needs to update their ssl cert. it expired this morning and I can't access it
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337 2017-07-31T18:51:54  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: ^
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339 2017-07-31T18:53:27  <MarcoFalke> It is issued by let's encrypt... I thought the point of that CA was that such updates are automatically done
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349 2017-07-31T19:19:45  <sipa> MarcoFalke: they have automated the procedure for renewal to almost nothing, but there is stipl some script you need to run (potentially in a cronjob)
350 2017-07-31T19:19:52  <sipa> wumpus: ^
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386 2017-07-31T21:40:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #10966: Add walletnotify functional test (master...2017-07-walletnotify-functional-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10966
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