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 33 2017-11-18T03:36:57  <meshcollider> should doc/files.md reflect what would be created on a clean install, or should it take into account legacy locations in use for compatibility?
 34 2017-11-18T03:38:00  <meshcollider> Specifically, for #11466, should I only mentioned wallets/database/*, wallets/db.log and wallets/wallet.dat ? Or does it need a node that they might be in the root dir instead?
 35 2017-11-18T03:38:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11466 | Specify custom wallet directory with -walletdir param by MeshCollider · Pull Request #11466 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 36 2017-11-18T03:38:14  <meshcollider> s/node/note/
 37 2017-11-18T03:55:30  <sipa> noded.
 38 2017-11-18T03:57:07  <luke-jr> meshcollider: see the existing entries..
 39 2017-11-18T03:57:15  <luke-jr> there's separate section for old files
 40 2017-11-18T03:58:05  <meshcollider> luke-jr: Oh true, thanks
 41 2017-11-18T04:00:18  <meshcollider> luke-jr: but I'm unsure, because if you upgrade an existing node to, say, 0.16.0 when it is released, it will still use the old file location. This change only effects new installs
 42 2017-11-18T04:00:38  <meshcollider> Should that still just be in its own section at the bottom?
 43 2017-11-18T04:00:42  <luke-jr> not sure
 44 2017-11-18T04:01:13  <luke-jr> IMO do what makes sense to you, and see if anyone complains on the PR
 45 2017-11-18T04:01:33  <meshcollider> Alright sure :)
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 58 2017-11-18T06:24:18  <jonasschnelli> sipa: how can you leak specific data in ECDSA's r and s through nonce generation? Try and error until you have a couple of desired bytes at the end of r or s?
 59 2017-11-18T06:25:42  <gmaxwell> no.
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 64 2017-11-18T06:26:52  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: does it require to generate a bunch of signatures?
 65 2017-11-18T06:27:05  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: for a very dumb example,  set the nonce to be k = H(message hash || constant the attacker knows).   Now the attacker sees any transaction signed by this device, he instantly knows the nonce, and can determine the private key.   That was is kinda boring because other people could learn the value and steal those too.
 66 2017-11-18T06:27:59  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: so we can do better,  k = H( xQ || message)   where x is the user's private key, Q is some attacker public key.   now only the attacker can derrive the nonce and steal the users private key.
 67 2017-11-18T06:29:14  <gmaxwell> To send a message, do any of the above schemes, but steal some bits of the nonce (like 16 bits) have the attacker try all of them and you send 16 bits of additional data per signature, while also giving the attacker each private key you signed with. For example the additional data could leak the chaining code, so the attacker could derrive all past and future keys as well.
 68 2017-11-18T06:30:18  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: but how does one extract the nonce from the signature?
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 70 2017-11-18T06:31:58  <gmaxwell> in the first example the attacker just does the same computation the wallet did to generate it.  In the second example,  the attacker takes his private key x'  and multiplies it by the users public key that is signing. k = H( x'P || message).
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 73 2017-11-18T06:32:36  <gmaxwell> x'P == xQ   because  Q = x'G  and P = xG  so both of them are  x'xG.
 74 2017-11-18T06:32:44  <gmaxwell> (thats just ECDH)
 75 2017-11-18T06:33:16  <gmaxwell> so user and attacker compute the same shared secret, hash it with the message being signed.. and use that as the nonce.
 76 2017-11-18T06:33:40  <gmaxwell> so the attacker knows the nonce, and with the nonce can just derrive the secret key.
 77 2017-11-18T06:34:58  * jonasschnelli reading and thinking... 
 78 2017-11-18T06:38:17  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: first Q. Why is H( xQ || message) better then H( attacker-constant || message)? Is there a difference if one learns the constant versus attackers pubkey Q?
 79 2017-11-18T06:38:55  <jonasschnelli> or is xQ ECDH?
 80 2017-11-18T06:39:03  <gmaxwell> imagine that some third party, not the attacker, and not the victim gets their hands on a backdoored device. They disassemble it and they learn the attacker-constant... then they could steal the coins themselves.
 81 2017-11-18T06:39:12  <meshcollider> jonasschnelli: you need the attacker's private key not the public key
 82 2017-11-18T06:39:34  <jonasschnelli> meshcollider: okay. I see. What notation is xQ? Multiplication?
 83 2017-11-18T06:40:11  <gmaxwell> with xQ  (the users private key times the attackers public key) then a third party which only knows the users and attacker's public keys, at msot, cannot steal the coins.
 84 2017-11-18T06:40:24  <jonasschnelli> Okay. Got that
 85 2017-11-18T06:40:26  <meshcollider> yes EC scalar multiplication
 86 2017-11-18T06:40:52  <gmaxwell> so use of the ECDH is better because it makes the attack exclusive for the attacker.
 87 2017-11-18T06:41:08  <jonasschnelli> Yes. Indeed
 88 2017-11-18T06:42:18  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: And with the 16 stealed nonce bits, you could export the devices 256bit master seed (requires 16 signatures)...
 89 2017-11-18T06:42:53  <jonasschnelli> But an attacked would have to try all 16bit combinations from all public known bitcoin signatures?
 90 2017-11-18T06:43:56  <gmaxwell> yes, so for each transaction he wants to check, he's have to do 2^16 hashes... which would take like.. a microsecond. :)
 91 2017-11-18T06:44:06  <jonasschnelli> okay.. I see
 92 2017-11-18T06:45:01  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell, meshcollider: Thanks. Got it. Thumbs up for the explanation...
 93 2017-11-18T06:45:12  <gmaxwell> given bitcoin transaction rates perhaps he could plausably steal 32 of those bits per signature instead of 16.
 94 2017-11-18T06:46:16  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: More stolen bytes = longer computation time? Thats the only limit, right?
 95 2017-11-18T06:48:02  <gmaxwell> yes, but it goes up exponentially.
 96 2017-11-18T06:49:12  <gmaxwell> to steal 4 extra-bytes per signature the attack is doing 2^32 work ... one thing an attacker might do is steal 16 bits in the first signature of a txn, and then 32 in all subsiquent signatures... so they can identify transactions relatively fast.
 97 2017-11-18T06:49:38  <gmaxwell> so a transaction with three inputs would leak 10 bytes of data.
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 99 2017-11-18T06:51:34  <jonasschnelli> And I guess if he got around 200bits of the HWW master seed, he can calculate the seed by deriving keys and compare against the signatures...
100 2017-11-18T06:52:39  <gmaxwell> also there is an extra fun trick,  if the attack code picks the extra data by indexing   short  chaincode[16]; ...  extra_data = chaincode[messagehash%16];  then he might need to see many more than 16 signatures to steal the whole chain code.  But if first the chaincode is expanded up with error correction,  then the stolen data is a random chunk of the much larger error correction data... then
101 2017-11-18T06:52:45  <gmaxwell> the attacker will almost certantly be able to recover after seeing 16 signatures.  (for a 32 byte extra-secret).
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103 2017-11-18T06:52:58  <gmaxwell> and of course in all of this, a single signature always leaks the private key of the public key it was signing for.
104 2017-11-18T06:53:24  <gmaxwell> so the only reason to steal extra data is to just get a master secret for other accounts, or so it can steal coins for addresses that are only used once.
105 2017-11-18T06:57:20  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: I don't understand the "pick extra data by indexing". But if a signature can leak 16 bits, wouldn't it always be sufficient to have 16 signatures to leak 256bit? Under the assumption the leak-data code does sufficient up-count of the "already-sent-index" (maybe through EEPROM usage to avoid power-loss reset)
106 2017-11-18T07:02:45  <aj> jonasschnelli: yeah, if you didn't have EEPROM to know which bits to leak, you could pick the data to leak based on the hash you're signing, but then you'd need >>16 sigs to leak 256 bits
107 2017-11-18T07:03:10  <aj> jonasschnelli: but if you do erasure coding, you could leak 256 bits in 16 sigs without needing an EEPROM
108 2017-11-18T07:04:03  <jonasschnelli> Ah. Now I got it (partially understand erasure coding).
109 2017-11-18T07:06:29  <jonasschnelli> Conclusion: Only HODL with HWW's until sipa's proposed scheme is available. :)
110 2017-11-18T07:07:56  <jonasschnelli> I mean the MCU on the PCB could be tempered. Could have 512kb flash instead of 256kb and could shadow the bootloader/firmware... hard to impossible to detect I guess.
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118 2017-11-18T08:00:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipsorcery opened pull request #11713: Fix for mismatched extern definition in wallet tests (master...externfix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11713
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121 2017-11-18T08:06:12  <gmaxwell> aj: if you use a counter to choose the data your signature is no longer determinstic, so that might be obvious.
122 2017-11-18T08:06:59  <gmaxwell> aj: if you use the message hash to index, your signature is determinstic, and externally indistinguishable from normal behavior.
123 2017-11-18T08:11:20  <aj> gmaxwell: good point
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128 2017-11-18T08:57:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jamesob opened pull request #11714: [tests] Test that mempool rejects coinbase transactions (master...test-mempool-rejects-coinbase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11714
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134 2017-11-18T11:06:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/142913296f00...938863965f14
135 2017-11-18T11:06:37  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dcfef27 Wladimir J. van der Laan: cli: Reject arguments to -getinfo...
136 2017-11-18T11:06:38  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9388639 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11710: cli: Reject arguments to -getinfo...
137 2017-11-18T11:07:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11710: cli: Reject arguments to -getinfo (master...2017_11_getinfo_args) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11710
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151 2017-11-18T13:03:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/938863965f14...49667a77e76a
152 2017-11-18T13:03:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f94c2ec Aaron Clauson: Fix for mismatched extern definition in wallet test classes which was breaking msvc linking.
153 2017-11-18T13:03:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 49667a7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11713: Fix for mismatched extern definition in wallet tests...
154 2017-11-18T13:04:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11713: Fix for mismatched extern definition in wallet tests (master...externfix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11713
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157 2017-11-18T13:14:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #11718: tests: move pwalletMain to wallet test fixture (master...2017_11_wallet_test_fixture) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11718
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165 2017-11-18T13:41:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 7 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/49667a77e76a...d080a7d5030e
166 2017-11-18T13:41:53  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0530ba0 MeshCollider: Add -walletdir parameter to specify custom wallet dir
167 2017-11-18T13:41:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 80c5cbc MeshCollider: Add test for -walletdir
168 2017-11-18T13:41:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d987889 MeshCollider: Add release notes for -walletdir and wallets/ dir
169 2017-11-18T13:42:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11466: Specify custom wallet directory with -walletdir param (master...201710_walletdir) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11466
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236 2017-11-18T19:39:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] tjps opened pull request #11722: Switched sync.{cpp,h} to std threading primitives. (master...tjps_sync_antiboost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11722
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245 2017-11-18T19:57:21  <Lauda> Is the "spend unconfirmed change" feature not supposed to allow you to spend unconfirmed amounts coming from elsewhere?
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247 2017-11-18T19:57:34  <Lauda> That should probably be added as well IMO.
248 2017-11-18T19:58:28  <sipa> no, it's about unconfirmed *change*, meaning money coming from yourself
249 2017-11-18T19:59:21  <Lauda> What do you think about adding a option for all unconfirmed outputs?
250 2017-11-18T19:59:36  <Lauda> i.e. is there a reason why the wallet does not have this?
251 2017-11-18T19:59:52  <sipa> yes, you know you won't doublespend your own money
252 2017-11-18T20:00:10  <sipa> you don't know that about money coming from elsewhere
253 2017-11-18T20:00:24  <Lauda> Well as an advanced feature, I know what I am doing. :P
254 2017-11-18T20:00:24  <Lauda> The use cases is probably just sending money to yourself from a second wallet
255 2017-11-18T20:00:28  <Lauda> and then wanting to move it elsewhere quickly
256 2017-11-18T20:00:33  <Lauda> as is, you have to wait
257 2017-11-18T20:00:46  <sipa> right, as an expert option i don't object
258 2017-11-18T20:00:56  <sipa> you can do it anyway through raw transaction interface
259 2017-11-18T20:01:27  <Lauda> The wallet tab is all expert features anyways. I think this would be a decent addition. + is likely to be needed post multiwallet GUI interface
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261 2017-11-18T20:01:51  <Lauda> needed more often*
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263 2017-11-18T20:08:26  <Lauda> I've opened an issue requesting such a feature.
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293 2017-11-18T22:15:59  <merehap> Hi all, I just ran "make cov" on bitcoin core, looking for low hanging fruit for writing new unit tests. I found that src/rpc/blockchain.cpp has low coverage. Are there any objections to me adding unit tests for this file? Any caveats?
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296 2017-11-18T22:29:48  <sipa> merehap: by all means!
297 2017-11-18T22:31:30  <merehap> sipa: Awesome, will get started on that now then.
298 2017-11-18T22:32:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 6 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d080a7d5030e...0d89fa087793
299 2017-11-18T22:32:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2613c54 John Newbery: [tests] fix flake8 warnings in sendheaders.py
300 2017-11-18T22:32:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f39d4bb John Newbery: [tests] tidy up BaseNode in sendheaders.py
301 2017-11-18T22:32:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 25fd6e2 John Newbery: [tests] refactor check_last_announcement() in sendheaders.py...
302 2017-11-18T22:33:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #11707: [tests] Fix sendheaders (master...fix_sendheaders) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11707
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