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32017-12-21T00:07:33 <valentinewallace> \query jonasschnelli Hi, you commented on one of my PRs yesterday. Are you available for a question?
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82017-12-21T00:17:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #11921: Fixing env variables/arguments in OpenBSD build instructions (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11921
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282017-12-21T01:08:32 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #11967: Add script to test the dns seeds (master...2017/12/seed_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11967
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342017-12-21T01:13:29 <bigboytimc> hey got a quick code question for you guys
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412017-12-21T01:19:33 <meshcollider> bigboytimc: "don't ask to ask, just ask" - pieter ;)
422017-12-21T01:20:27 <bigboytimc> haha sounds good, my question is just that I'm looking through the source code and I'm trying to find where the segwit extended block structure is
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442017-12-21T01:20:50 <bigboytimc> I figured it'd be in primitives with block.h, but there's nothing there that looks like it
452017-12-21T01:21:00 <bigboytimc> so I guess I'm just wondering where the extended block is in the code
462017-12-21T01:21:08 <echeveria> 'extended block'?
472017-12-21T01:21:23 <meshcollider> what do you mean by an extended block, the block structure hasn't really changed
482017-12-21T01:22:04 <bigboytimc> doesn't segwit include an additional structure that isn't on the blockchain?
492017-12-21T01:22:10 <gmaxwell> no.
502017-12-21T01:22:28 <bigboytimc> like the change involved moving some parts of the block into a separate structure to add more transactions?
512017-12-21T01:22:34 <gmaxwell> the blocks are totally unchanged.
522017-12-21T01:22:38 <gmaxwell> bigboytimc: nope.
532017-12-21T01:23:04 <gmaxwell> There is a new field in transactions, called the witness field, which is after the outputs and before the nlocktime.
542017-12-21T01:23:28 <meshcollider> bigboytimc: transactions are serialized and hashed in a slightly different way now, but they are still included in blocks the same as they used to be
552017-12-21T01:23:29 <photonclock_> How well is Bitcoin holding up to the mempool overflow? Is everything working as expected?
562017-12-21T01:23:44 <gmaxwell> New nodes know how to strip out this witness field from the transactions befor passing them along to old unupgraded nodes.
572017-12-21T01:24:03 <gmaxwell> photonclock_: yup. things are working very well.
582017-12-21T01:24:06 <bigboytimc> interesting, I guess reading about segwit made it sound like they took the witness stuff and added it to a different structure
592017-12-21T01:24:16 <gmaxwell> bigboytimc: there is a lot of misinformation out there.
602017-12-21T01:24:54 <photonclock_> gmax I know this is not the room for general Bitcoin chat - can I chat you up on the Bitcoin channel?
612017-12-21T01:25:22 <meshcollider> bigboytimc: there are a number of bad actors who like to mislead people into thinking segwit does things which it doesn't, mostly because they themselves are uneducated. Try http://segwit.org/
622017-12-21T01:26:05 <bigboytimc> thanks!
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1142017-12-21T02:07:51 <meshcollider> for this command line arg registration thing, whats the cleanest way to have a pointer to a variable whose type is not known currently
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1182017-12-21T02:09:55 <meshcollider> or I should just use UniValue for the globals
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1202017-12-21T02:10:40 <instagibbs> did someone say command line registration of args? meshcollider pointer to PR/issue?
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1222017-12-21T02:11:57 <meshcollider> instagibbs: working on it atm, was discussed here: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2017-12-14/?msg=94674799&page=9
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1252017-12-21T02:12:20 <meshcollider> issues 11819 and 1044 are directly related
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1272017-12-21T02:12:37 <meshcollider> still solidifying the approach in my head atm
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1492017-12-21T03:20:53 <jonasschnelli> valentinewallace: sure.. shoot your Q
1502017-12-21T03:24:04 <sipa> jonasschnelli: why are you awake? :)
1512017-12-21T03:26:54 <jonasschnelli> sipa: I'm usually awake at 17:26. :)
1522017-12-21T03:27:18 <jonasschnelli> Don't assume I'm always in CH. :)
1532017-12-21T03:28:28 <sipa> oh.
1542017-12-21T03:28:50 <sipa> hawaii?
1552017-12-21T03:28:56 <jonasschnelli> Jup
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1642017-12-21T03:33:43 <SomeBuggyCode> Hello
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1662017-12-21T03:37:38 <SomeBuggyCode> I just wanted to ask and see if there might be anywhere to start besides reading the bitcoin docs. Is there any good way to start contributing? Thank you
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1682017-12-21T03:41:47 <jonasschnelli> SomeBuggyCode: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues
1692017-12-21T03:42:34 <SomeBuggyCode> True enough
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1712017-12-21T03:43:03 <jonasschnelli> Look also for the "good first issue" tag:
1722017-12-21T03:43:03 <jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22good+first+issue%22
1732017-12-21T03:43:47 <SomeBuggyCode> Oh wow
1742017-12-21T03:43:54 <SomeBuggyCode> Didn't know about that
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2272017-12-21T05:34:34 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Varunram opened pull request #11969: logs: Improve "mempool min fee not met" error (master...mempoolfix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11969
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2312017-12-21T05:49:57 <mcorbettsr> hello all having prob with core 0.15.1
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2332017-12-21T05:54:03 <jonasschnelli> meshcollider: maybe #bitcoin?
2342017-12-21T05:54:20 <jonasschnelli> sry, mean mcorbettsr but he left
2352017-12-21T05:54:56 <meshcollider> heh all good, I never understand why people ask questions and then leave before they get a response
2362017-12-21T05:55:25 <gmaxwell> maybe he solved his problem
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9252017-12-21T08:07:18 <ryanofsky> jonasschnelli, i think if you're using pcoinsdbview you don't need cs_main, but if you using pcoinsTip you do
9262017-12-21T08:08:02 <jonasschnelli> thanks ryanofsky
9272017-12-21T08:08:38 <ryanofsky> i was also wondering if #9306 might be useful for what you are doing
9282017-12-21T08:08:40 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9306 | Make CCoinsViewCache::Cursor() return latest data by ryanofsky · Pull Request #9306 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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9322017-12-21T08:12:14 <jonasschnelli> ryanofsky: I'm implementing UTXO scans (provide pubkeys, xpubs, get unspents, total, etc.)
9332017-12-21T08:15:13 <jonasschnelli> ryanofsky: Can you explain the benefits of 9306?
9342017-12-21T08:17:18 <ryanofsky> 9306 just lets you scan pcoinsTip instead of pcoinsdbview. pcoinsTip has current utxo data, pcoinsdbview has older utxo data from the time of the last flush
9352017-12-21T08:18:34 <jonasschnelli> If you FlushStateToDisk(); and then loop with the curser will give you the same results?
9362017-12-21T08:19:23 <ryanofsky> yeah, that should basically be the same
9372017-12-21T08:19:56 <jonasschnelli> Are there any performance implications/benefits?
9382017-12-21T08:20:07 <ryanofsky> meshcollider, for command line option registration, can't you require the type of the option when registering it? this would let you enforce the type during parsing
9392017-12-21T08:20:09 <jonasschnelli> Scanning the whole set takes a couplf of mins here
9402017-12-21T08:20:28 <jonasschnelli> *couple
9412017-12-21T08:20:48 <ryanofsky> jonasschnelli, i don't know the performance tradeoffs. if calling FlushStateToDisk() is an option though, I would go with that because it seems simpler
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9432017-12-21T08:22:40 <jonasschnelli> ryanofsky: I'll open a PR soon (next week maybe) and happy if you have a look for possible optimisations...
9442017-12-21T08:22:42 <jonasschnelli> thanks
9452017-12-21T08:23:12 <ryanofsky> sounds good
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9472017-12-21T08:28:22 <sipa> flushing just to perform a wallet operation sounds like sething we should avoid
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9492017-12-21T08:30:50 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/604e08c83cf5...7a11ba7e01f3
9502017-12-21T08:30:51 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b798f9b Wladimir J. van der Laan: contrib: New clang patch for install_db4...
9512017-12-21T08:30:51 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c0298b0 Wladimir J. van der Laan: contrib: Make X=Y arguments work in install_db4...
9522017-12-21T08:30:52 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d95c83d Wladimir J. van der Laan: contrib: FreeBSD compatibility in install_db4.sh...
9532017-12-21T08:31:25 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11945: Improve BSD compatibility of contrib/install_db4.sh (master...2017_12_contrib_bsd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11945
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9722017-12-21T09:49:07 <meshcollider> ryanofsky yeah that's what I thought, but I can't think of how to pass a type as a parameter in the registration
9732017-12-21T09:50:05 <meshcollider> Without using a variant or univalue or whatever
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9752017-12-21T09:51:38 <ryanofsky> is registration just declaring a global variable? if so the type should just be part of the variable type, maybe a template argument
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9922017-12-21T10:24:17 <meshcollider> But you have to pass a pointer to the global variable to the arg manager right, so I'm just confused as to the best way of accepting a pointer to a variable of unknown type
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10342017-12-21T11:44:29 <ryanofsky> meshcollider, probably through subclassing. you could have list<unique_ptr<Option>>, with IntOption, BoolOption, StringOption subclasses, for example
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10422017-12-21T12:03:52 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 8 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7a11ba7e01f3...711d16ca4a91
10432017-12-21T12:03:53 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cdc260a MeshCollider: Add GetCScripts to CBasicKeyStore
10442017-12-21T12:03:53 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b702ae8 MeshCollider: Add CScripts to dumpwallet RPC
10452017-12-21T12:03:54 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ef0c730 MeshCollider: Add scripts to importwallet RPC
10462017-12-21T12:04:17 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11667: Add scripts to dumpwallet RPC (master...201710_dumpwallet_scripts) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11667
10472017-12-21T12:05:22 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #11970: Add test coverage for bitcoin-cli multiwallet calls (master...pr/mcli) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11970
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10502017-12-21T12:14:20 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10051: adhere to `-whitelist` for outbound connection (master...whitelist-outbound) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10051
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10602017-12-21T12:49:55 <DSidH> When creating a transaction by hand, how do I decide the scriptPubKey contents? Do I just look at the first byte of the pubKeyHash and decide that its either P2PKH or P2SH ?
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10682017-12-21T13:12:31 <DSidH> nvm: got the answer. (yes)
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10832017-12-21T13:47:21 <Varunram> If I may ask, what's the reason in some of the license banners being old? (e.g. bitcoinconsensus.h has a 2009-2016 banner)
10842017-12-21T13:49:02 <wumpus> Varunram: usually we do one "update copyright years" PR at the end of the yera
10852017-12-21T13:49:08 <wumpus> if the file is touched that year
10862017-12-21T13:49:27 <Varunram> was just curious, thanks!
10872017-12-21T13:51:34 <wumpus> it's certainly allowed to update the copyright year of a file together with your change, but almost no one bothers to do that, and it might even result in merge conflicts/rebases as it's a single hotspot per file. There's just no urgency in updating them.
10882017-12-21T13:54:05 <Varunram> yep, got the "don't update copyright until the file is changed" part, but just wanted to know the rationale behind it :)
10892017-12-21T14:01:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Varunram opened pull request #11971: [docs]: include README with binary releases (master...bindoc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11971
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11432017-12-21T16:36:07 <ilanosortap> Hey guys, i would like to contribute to this project. I understand that the first step should be to build it on my system, how can i do so?
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11462017-12-21T16:37:38 <ilanosortap> Also, since i am beginner how can i choose bugs to work on
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11492017-12-21T16:40:05 <mikestovlensky> Anyone here?
11502017-12-21T16:40:12 <mikestovlensky> I've got a quick question
11512017-12-21T16:43:09 <ryanofsky> ilanosortap, list of good first issues is https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?q=label%3A%22good+first+issue%22, build instructions https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/README.md
11522017-12-21T16:44:47 <mikestovlensky> Hi Ryan
11532017-12-21T16:45:09 <mikestovlensky> Have you had any contact with the people at Coinbase about when they plan to support Segwit?
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11552017-12-21T16:49:13 <BlueMatt> mikestovlensky: dont think this is the place, #bitcoin
11562017-12-21T16:49:23 <ryanofsky> sorry, i don't know anything and i don't think coinbase developers are active here
11572017-12-21T16:49:28 <BlueMatt> also, answer is probably no
11582017-12-21T16:50:40 <mikestovlensky> I asked Coinbase, they just ignore me
11592017-12-21T16:50:48 <mikestovlensky> Just checking in case they have a line in with you folks
11602017-12-21T16:51:25 <wumpus> no, not at all
11612017-12-21T16:51:40 <mikestovlensky> thanks folks. Keep coding ahead. We'll win this battle. Roger Ver and his cronies got nothing on the hard work you lot are doing
11622017-12-21T16:52:11 <mikestovlensky> The community believes in you guys. Your vision is the way forward. I'll leave you lot to plug back in. Merry Xmas in advance
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11642017-12-21T16:52:21 <wumpus> thank you, same to you
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11692017-12-21T17:01:42 <ilanosortap> Thanks a lot @ryanofsky
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11752017-12-21T17:16:00 <goatpig> Is there a version of SPV that keeps track a record of the last 1000 blocks or so?
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11772017-12-21T17:18:07 <wumpus> no, there is no SPV mode in bitcoin core at all at the moment
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11802017-12-21T17:18:44 <goatpig> oh, what about pruned mode?
11812017-12-21T17:19:00 <wumpus> there's https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9483 which could use review and testing
11822017-12-21T17:19:07 <wumpus> yes, there is a pruned mode
11832017-12-21T17:19:42 <goatpig> thanks
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12012017-12-21T18:13:12 <luke-jr> goatpig: pruned mode isn't SPV
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12032017-12-21T18:14:32 <goatpig> i know, im just looking into alternate node modes and thinking forward
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12092017-12-21T18:29:16 <jonasschnelli> goatpig: what are you building?
12102017-12-21T18:29:37 <jonasschnelli> IMO the most straight forward way if you want to run multiple wallets away from a Core node would be an RPC proxy.
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12122017-12-21T18:30:39 <eck> can i get any book recommendations for practical/applied cryptography for an engineer who has an undergraduate or so level of background in mathematics
12132017-12-21T18:30:40 <jonasschnelli> The (new) wallet app could hold keys, and therefore do the signing. That app would create new wallets via RPC (proxy) (which would create a watch-only-wallet on your node).
12142017-12-21T18:30:59 <jonasschnelli> Which would also work with pruned peers.
12152017-12-21T18:31:21 <jonasschnelli> So a single pruned peer node could server (maybe) hundreds of wallets.. no index required
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12172017-12-21T18:31:38 <jonasschnelli> Backup recovery is only possible via UTXO-set sweep
12182017-12-21T18:32:49 <goatpig> not building anything yet
12192017-12-21T18:32:52 <goatpig> working on my supernode
12202017-12-21T18:33:11 <goatpig> thinking of a hybrid mode where clients bootstrap on a public supernode then run off of a lite bitcoin node
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12222017-12-21T18:36:35 <jonasschnelli> goatpig: what is a supernode?
12232017-12-21T18:36:47 <jonasschnelli> what is a lite bitcoin node?
12242017-12-21T18:37:00 <goatpig> db that tracks all blockchain history undiscrimnately
12252017-12-21T18:37:20 <goatpig> can handle any arbitrary history request quickly
12262017-12-21T18:37:36 <arubi> I can just feed it any blockchain and it would index it?
12272017-12-21T18:37:38 <luke-jr> archive node?
12282017-12-21T18:37:47 <goatpig> basically yes
12292017-12-21T18:37:47 <jonasschnelli> goatpig: fully indexed? Like an electrum server?
12302017-12-21T18:37:48 <luke-jr> oh
12312017-12-21T18:37:53 <goatpig> yes
12322017-12-21T18:38:05 <arubi> well, sounds like free for all dos
12332017-12-21T18:38:07 <jonasschnelli> Okay. Yes. Pretty inefficient if you just want to run a handful of wallets
12342017-12-21T18:38:07 <luke-jr> goatpig: so that assumes the blockchains in question are minimally compatible with Bitcoin in some way?
12352017-12-21T18:38:13 <jonasschnelli> But ideally for a large backend
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12372017-12-21T18:38:33 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: IMO it should be a goal that Core does something similar long-term
12382017-12-21T18:38:33 <goatpig> luke-jr: this is targetted at Bitcoin, i dont do alts
12392017-12-21T18:38:46 <arubi> oh ^
12402017-12-21T18:38:54 <webuser8434> Hey I just wanted to say that I think maybe at some point in the future you guys might want to consider dissolution of the "Core" brand thing. As much I support everything you do and how you do it the whole "Core" idea is Bad and you'll never stop paying price for it and by extension the entire Bitcoin community. It's divisive in its nature and it gives opponents a tangible target. Unless of course it goes away. It was
12412017-12-21T18:38:56 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: Yeah.. I started to change my mind about indexing... it may should be in Core
12422017-12-21T18:38:57 <webuser8434> The only label there is is Bitcoin. Maybe use a section of bitcoin.org to communicate development .. whatever, details are not import. Core needs to die for Bitcoin to live!
12432017-12-21T18:39:01 <luke-jr> goatpig: that contradicts the "undiscrimnately" part.. invalid blocks aren't Bitcoin
12442017-12-21T18:39:03 <goatpig> arubi: any public facing service has to, but this can also be used internally by businesses
12452017-12-21T18:39:05 <webuser8434> Ah, and please please release this bloody Segwit yesterday.
12462017-12-21T18:39:11 <webuser8434> Good holidays chaps!
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12482017-12-21T18:39:19 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: for example, by tracking BCH's chain, we can use "total known hashrate" as a security metric
12492017-12-21T18:39:44 <wumpus> eck: 'cryptography' is kind of general
12502017-12-21T18:39:45 <arubi> goatpig, I'll have to see what you mean by "any blockchain"
12512017-12-21T18:40:12 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: this is useful because if we know hashrate is mining BCH, we know it isn't being used to make an attack reorg chain
12522017-12-21T18:40:21 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: hmm... thats interesting... though "known" hashrate is probably not enough for a security metric... there could be hashrate sitting around in non BCH/BTC chains
12532017-12-21T18:40:25 <goatpig> arubi: im not saying that, this is based on Bitcoin, i dont care about other networks/chains
12542017-12-21T18:40:36 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: yes, but it's an improvement
12552017-12-21T18:40:37 *** Soligor has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
12562017-12-21T18:41:04 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: if you attack BTC, then you would just have to "hide" the hashrate until it drops out of BTC hash security algo, then attack with that hidden hashrate
12572017-12-21T18:41:26 <eck> wumpus: well eventually i'd like to understand things like pederson commitments, ring signatures etc. at a deeper level, my current understanding is superficial. doesn't necessarily have to be a book that covers those things specifically, but i'd like to build a more solid theory foundation.
12582017-12-21T18:41:37 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: it's harder to hide 50%
12592017-12-21T18:41:40 <arubi> goatpig, alright, but I don't think I understand the usefulness if it's targeted at bitcoin specifically
12602017-12-21T18:41:55 <goatpig> my users run against fullnodes
12612017-12-21T18:41:57 <goatpig> this lets you do
12622017-12-21T18:42:09 <goatpig> 1 fullnode -> 1 db -> any amount of clients
12632017-12-21T18:42:09 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: but for example, if 50% of miners switch to BCH, we wouldn't want to false flag this as a security problem in Bitcoin
12642017-12-21T18:42:18 <jonasschnelli> goatpig: I'm currently in favor of a direct backend. Means, you pass in new just created pubkeys in oder to track them (like a wallet), means you don't need block history, means you can run on pruned peers
12652017-12-21T18:42:38 *** sis has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
12662017-12-21T18:42:39 <provoostenator> In theory you could feed the client any sha256 hash from any source and it couuld figure out how much went into it. So you can feed it headers from anything that's completely different from Bitcoin, as long as it has a trustworthy timestamp, and it only cares aobut estimating total work in the world.
12672017-12-21T18:42:43 <arubi> goatpig, so the clients aren't fully validating?
12682017-12-21T18:42:51 <jonasschnelli> goatpig: if you don't care about the backup recovery, you can run endless wallets on a 4GB pruned peer
12692017-12-21T18:43:17 <provoostenator> (known work, and the trustworthy timestamp bit doesn't seem trivial)
12702017-12-21T18:43:22 <wumpus> eck: in that case it might be useful to focus on the math underpinning it, group theory etc first
12712017-12-21T18:43:40 <goatpig> arubi: maybe some context is lost, the supernode is for armory, i was asking about litghter nodes for users to interface with while they bootstrap off a remote supernode
12722017-12-21T18:43:51 *** intcat has quit IRC
12732017-12-21T18:44:13 <goatpig> arubi: the armory stack is full node, db, client. im looking into possible ways around that
12742017-12-21T18:44:43 <arubi> ah, you're right. yea I understand now. I missed context
12752017-12-21T18:44:57 <wumpus> eck: one of my fav books in that regard is Victor Shoup's A Computational Introduction to Number Theory and Algebra, it's free for download too at http://shoup.net/ntb/
12762017-12-21T18:44:59 *** intcat has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
12772017-12-21T18:45:08 <eck> great, thank you for the recommendation!
12782017-12-21T18:45:14 *** Gloata has quit IRC
12792017-12-21T18:45:15 <goatpig> jonasschnelli: as long as i can deliver a good service with armory, Core wouldn't need to work towards that
12802017-12-21T18:45:19 <wumpus> eck: besides I really enjoyed "applied cryptoanalsys
12812017-12-21T18:45:30 <wumpus> eck: but that's as off topic to cryptocurrencies as it's possible :)
12822017-12-21T18:45:44 <eck> i might enjoy it anyway, i'll take a look
12832017-12-21T18:46:00 <jonasschnelli> "applied cryptoanalysys"... is that the new word for hacking?
12842017-12-21T18:46:03 <jonasschnelli> :-)
12852017-12-21T18:46:20 *** nelruk has quit IRC
12862017-12-21T18:46:59 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it's about breaking rsa in some edge cases, timing attacks, and breaking various historical ciphers, so yea sort of
12872017-12-21T18:47:31 <wumpus> but not the expoitation kind
12882017-12-21T18:50:06 <provoostenator> I doubt this is reproducable, but I just managed to crash QT while it was doing a reindex (in order to get -txindex=1 to work). At the next launch it decided to just redownload the whole blockchain...
12892017-12-21T18:50:35 <wumpus> eck: http://cryptopals.com/ has some fairly interesting challenges re: applied cryptography things
12902017-12-21T18:50:54 <wumpus> provoostenator: uh oh
12912017-12-21T18:51:28 <wumpus> provoostenator: are you able to get a traceback?
12922017-12-21T18:51:33 <provoostenator> I'm not entirely sure how I managed to crash it. I was running the eclair lightning test suite, so it's possible that that interfered.
12932017-12-21T18:51:58 <provoostenator> wumpus: where would I find that?
12942017-12-21T18:52:32 <wumpus> well if you ran it in gdb it would be easy, otherwise, did it dump a core file?
12952017-12-21T18:53:19 <wumpus> linux also prints the crash eip to dmesg in case of a segmentation fault but I've found that fairly useless usually with ASLR
12962017-12-21T18:53:23 *** sis has quit IRC
12972017-12-21T18:55:12 <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: I guess you ran in the OOM issue? It's still in master AFAIK
12982017-12-21T18:55:17 <provoostenator> OSX applications sometimes create crash reports. Maybe that's something we can / need to enable? At least in debug mode.
12992017-12-21T18:55:30 <jonasschnelli> The crash report should be stored somewhere
13002017-12-21T18:55:37 <provoostenator> I'm on sipa's SegWit branch and I set a pretty high dbcache
13012017-12-21T18:56:02 *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
13022017-12-21T18:56:17 <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: reindexes on current master causes OOM (on my 32GB machine it did): You need https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11824
13032017-12-21T18:56:25 <jonasschnelli> 11824 should probably by hi-prio
13042017-12-21T18:56:58 <jonasschnelli> I did a reindex 4-5 days ago and had the OOM crash on debian with 32GB ram
13052017-12-21T18:57:07 <provoostenator> Why would an OOM cause a new IDB?
13062017-12-21T18:57:10 <provoostenator> IBD
13072017-12-21T18:57:10 <provoostenator> IBD
13082017-12-21T18:57:34 <promag> does it cause ibd?
13092017-12-21T18:57:39 *** jtimon has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
13102017-12-21T18:57:52 <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: I think you may end up with a corrupted db.. even if you souldn't (in theory)
13112017-12-21T18:58:03 <provoostenator> Oh I was monitoring memory usage, and that was about 30 GB during the reindex (I have 16 GB physical)
13122017-12-21T18:58:21 <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: yes. Its fixed in 11824
13132017-12-21T18:58:35 <jonasschnelli> reindex in master is currently not usable
13142017-12-21T18:58:37 <provoostenator> promag: I don't know if it caused IBD, but it certain started an IBD after this happened
13152017-12-21T18:58:39 <wumpus> apparently the validation queue fills memory
13162017-12-21T18:58:48 *** LIndvidu_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
13172017-12-21T18:59:57 <provoostenator> So only a re-index should cause this crash, right? Not the new IBD? I might just let this IBD finish and then do another re-index to see if it crashes, before cherry-picking that fix.
13182017-12-21T19:00:03 <promag> guess I'll check 11824 too
13192017-12-21T19:00:46 <gmaxwell> it would effect IBD too
13202017-12-21T19:00:47 *** Ylbam has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
13212017-12-21T19:01:05 <luke-jr> depending on bandwidth?
13222017-12-21T19:01:09 <jonasschnelli> I haven't looked at the code of 11824 to be honest...
13232017-12-21T19:01:11 <cfields> meeting?
13242017-12-21T19:01:13 <wumpus> #startmeeting
13252017-12-21T19:01:13 <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 21 19:01:13 2017 UTC. The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13262017-12-21T19:01:13 <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13272017-12-21T19:01:18 <provoostenator> gmaxwell: ok, that's "great"; saves me time to reproduce. So far it's only using 1.1 GB of RAM in ~2013...
13282017-12-21T19:01:19 <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag
13292017-12-21T19:01:28 <jonasschnelli> hi
13302017-12-21T19:01:38 <Chris_Stewart_5> hello
13312017-12-21T19:01:40 <provoostenator> hi
13322017-12-21T19:01:41 * BlueMatt is betting on low attendance
13332017-12-21T19:01:42 <promag> hi o/
13342017-12-21T19:01:55 <kanzure> hi.
13352017-12-21T19:01:58 <luke-jr> why?
13362017-12-21T19:02:08 <gmaxwell> people travling for holidays
13372017-12-21T19:02:14 <luke-jr> oh
13382017-12-21T19:02:22 <sipa> oh, look, a meeting
13392017-12-21T19:02:23 <provoostenator> Without taking their laptop? Lame.
13402017-12-21T19:02:26 <promag> or buying gifts
13412017-12-21T19:02:34 <wumpus> seems there are enough people to warrant a meeting
13422017-12-21T19:02:41 <cfields> hi
13432017-12-21T19:02:50 *** LIndividu has quit IRC
13442017-12-21T19:03:12 <wumpus> but yes holidays is a good topic, I won't be there for next week and the week after that meeting
13452017-12-21T19:03:42 <promag> on my side just want to let know that I've made some progress on the activity feature, hope to submit PR next week
13462017-12-21T19:04:39 <jonasschnelli> topics?
13472017-12-21T19:04:43 <jtimon> hi
13482017-12-21T19:04:50 <wumpus> segwit wallet merge? please? :)
13492017-12-21T19:04:57 * sipa is in favor
13502017-12-21T19:04:57 <jonasschnelli> Yes. Please
13512017-12-21T19:05:00 <gmaxwell> plz
13522017-12-21T19:05:03 <jonasschnelli> xmas present
13532017-12-21T19:05:09 <sipa> but also please review first
13542017-12-21T19:05:10 <wumpus> #topic segwit wallet
13552017-12-21T19:05:18 <wumpus> what is left to do?
13562017-12-21T19:05:34 <BlueMatt> I think it needs more review still? I havent checked since my last round but there were a number of papercuts that needed fixing
13572017-12-21T19:05:34 <sipa> ryanofsky made a nice list of todos in a comment (all for other PRs ino)
13582017-12-21T19:05:46 <wumpus> yes, I mean for this PR
13592017-12-21T19:05:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: i've responded, please review
13602017-12-21T19:05:59 *** bitinvestor has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
13612017-12-21T19:06:00 <BlueMatt> yes, will try to get back to it this week
13622017-12-21T19:06:06 <wumpus> there's plenty of things that can be done after merging it
13632017-12-21T19:06:12 <sipa> cool
13642017-12-21T19:06:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: did you look into that multisig still using p2sh thing we discussed?
13652017-12-21T19:06:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: yes, fixed, and added tests
13662017-12-21T19:06:42 <BlueMatt> oh, yes, it def needed more tests
13672017-12-21T19:06:51 <aj> ryanofsky's todo's: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11403#pullrequestreview-83563917
13682017-12-21T19:06:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: also addressed, i think
13692017-12-21T19:07:02 <BlueMatt> kool
13702017-12-21T19:07:06 <wumpus> #link ryanofsky's todo's: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11403#pullrequestreview-83563917
13712017-12-21T19:07:55 <sipa> ah yes, there are no address_type parsing tests yet
13722017-12-21T19:07:59 <sipa> i'll add those
13732017-12-21T19:08:16 <wumpus> great
13742017-12-21T19:09:07 <wumpus> any other topics?
13752017-12-21T19:09:18 <jonasschnelli> gitian build are broken
13762017-12-21T19:09:18 <jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11935
13772017-12-21T19:09:23 <jonasschnelli> *builds
13782017-12-21T19:09:34 <BlueMatt> review 0.16 stuff!
13792017-12-21T19:09:35 <jonasschnelli> (I think its not a local issue)
13802017-12-21T19:09:39 <BlueMatt> (not just segwit wallet)
13812017-12-21T19:09:42 <wumpus> oh no not again
13822017-12-21T19:09:52 <cfields> mm, will have a look
13832017-12-21T19:09:54 <jonasschnelli> I think its one for cfields
13842017-12-21T19:09:58 <cfields> jonasschnelli: thanks for reporting
13852017-12-21T19:10:18 <cfields> jonasschnelli: oh, i see
13862017-12-21T19:10:29 <cfields> it's missing -static-libstdc++ for some reason
13872017-12-21T19:10:30 <Chris_Stewart_5> is there still a memory leak on master?
13882017-12-21T19:10:37 <wumpus> oh the symbols check fails
13892017-12-21T19:10:49 <jonasschnelli> Chris_Stewart_5: yes see 11824
13902017-12-21T19:10:50 <gmaxwell> Chris_Stewart_5: it's not a memory leak, but yes its still there.
13912017-12-21T19:10:53 <sipa> Chris_Stewart_5: not a leak, but memory is growing unboundedly
13922017-12-21T19:10:59 <wumpus> yes, it shouldn't dynamically import libstdc++
13932017-12-21T19:11:01 <cfields> yea, the stdlib is just linked shared. Will get to the bottom of it.
13942017-12-21T19:11:21 <wumpus> cfields: thanks
13952017-12-21T19:11:22 <cfields> nice to see that got caught!
13962017-12-21T19:12:34 <jonasschnelli> it's broken since dec. 1st if that helps track down the relevant commit
13972017-12-21T19:13:38 <wumpus> two PRs were merged that day, #11804 and #11337
13982017-12-21T19:13:39 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11804 | [docs] Fixed outdated link with archive.is by TimothyShimmin · Pull Request #11804 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
13992017-12-21T19:13:41 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11337 | Fix code constness in CBlockIndex::GetAncestor() overloads by danra · Pull Request #11337 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
14002017-12-21T19:14:14 <cfields> thanks
14012017-12-21T19:14:35 <jonasschnelli> Build 2017-12-01 00:00:10 UTC failed... but build 2017-11-30 00:00:10 UTC succeeded
14022017-12-21T19:14:43 *** intcat has quit IRC
14032017-12-21T19:14:49 <wumpus> ok many more things were merged the day before that
14042017-12-21T19:15:36 <sipa> dec 1st in what tz?
14052017-12-21T19:15:45 <jonasschnelli> 2017-12-01 00:00:10 UTC
14062017-12-21T19:16:05 <jonasschnelli> Commit must be between 2017-11-30 00:00:10 UTC and 2017-12-01 00:00:10 UTC
14072017-12-21T19:16:19 <jonasschnelli> But maybe other topics first?
14082017-12-21T19:16:54 *** intcat has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
14092017-12-21T19:16:55 <jonasschnelli> anything to change at / mention from the HP list https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8?
14102017-12-21T19:17:15 <wumpus> there's 10 things on there already, I don't think it will help to add more
14112017-12-21T19:17:15 <jtimon> BlueMatt: what is "0.16 stuff"?
14122017-12-21T19:17:31 <BlueMatt> jtimon: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/30
14132017-12-21T19:17:36 <wumpus> only so much that can be 'high priority' at once
14142017-12-21T19:17:45 *** c40d9b0743a91f40 has quit IRC
14152017-12-21T19:17:55 <wumpus> and what we really want is segwit wallet anyway
14162017-12-21T19:18:06 <sipa> prioritize ALL THE THINGS!
14172017-12-21T19:18:13 <wumpus> hehe
14182017-12-21T19:18:27 <jtimon> does everything in there need to be merged before forking 0.16 ?
14192017-12-21T19:18:36 <wumpus> jtimon: no
14202017-12-21T19:18:46 <wumpus> just segwit wallet + the bugfixes
14212017-12-21T19:18:56 <wumpus> all features are optional
14222017-12-21T19:19:14 <wumpus> I think we get this question every week
14232017-12-21T19:19:32 <jonasschnelli> Maybe a short discussion about fallbackfee / RBF defaults?
14242017-12-21T19:19:42 <wumpus> #topic fallbackfee / RBF defaults
14252017-12-21T19:19:44 <jtimon> I guess the 0.16 tag confuses me
14262017-12-21T19:20:10 <jonasschnelli> There is a PR to split walletrbf between RPC and GUI #11605 (I don't think we should do that)
14272017-12-21T19:20:12 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11605 | [Wallet] Enable RBF by default in QT by Sjors · Pull Request #11605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
14282017-12-21T19:20:19 <wumpus> RBF should probably become default, I don't think there's any way around that
14292017-12-21T19:20:23 <jonasschnelli> Also,.. there are two PRs do disable the fallback fee (one on mainnet, one entierly)
14302017-12-21T19:20:23 <gmaxwell> RBF should probably be default now, electrum does it, without any great consequence.
14312017-12-21T19:20:34 <instagibbs> wumpus, ACK
14322017-12-21T19:20:41 <jonasschnelli> Okay. I agree. So lets enable it by default.
14332017-12-21T19:20:51 <promag> +1
14342017-12-21T19:20:52 <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: if fallback fee is disabled what happens if it would otherwise use it?
14352017-12-21T19:21:04 <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: can you transform your PR toward that: 11605?
14362017-12-21T19:21:05 <wumpus> not sure what the rationale is to enable it only by default for qt?
14372017-12-21T19:21:10 <provoostenator> Well, I'm not so sure if that's a good idea for the RPC, which is used by different applicaitons than e.g. electrum.
14382017-12-21T19:21:14 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: reject
14392017-12-21T19:21:26 <jonasschnelli> Disabled fallback fee = JSON throw or QT reject
14402017-12-21T19:21:34 <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: I mean, does the user get prompted to enter a fee?
14412017-12-21T19:21:39 <jonasschnelli> No
14422017-12-21T19:21:45 <wumpus> but let's merge enabling it for the gui first at least that's a step forward
14432017-12-21T19:21:45 <jonasschnelli> No manual fee entering is provoked
14442017-12-21T19:21:48 <provoostenator> Electrum is used afaik person to person, not for broadcasting lots of stuff through an automated process.
14452017-12-21T19:21:48 <gmaxwell> so the software just becomes unusable?
14462017-12-21T19:21:51 <luke-jr> ^
14472017-12-21T19:21:53 *** pierre_rochard has quit IRC
14482017-12-21T19:21:57 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: but it's possible to select a custom fee right?
14492017-12-21T19:22:03 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: the GUI has a checkbox for that
14502017-12-21T19:22:05 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. Always...
14512017-12-21T19:22:10 <luke-jr> hmm
14522017-12-21T19:22:12 <wumpus> so no, the software doesn't become unusable
14532017-12-21T19:22:15 <gmaxwell> What about in the rpc/cli?
14542017-12-21T19:22:17 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: but if you don't and fee estimations are not ready,.. rject!
14552017-12-21T19:22:32 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: reject if you haven't set fallbackfee or paytxfee and feeest is not ready
14562017-12-21T19:22:40 <jonasschnelli> fallback fees are the worst!
14572017-12-21T19:22:43 <jonasschnelli> (UX)
14582017-12-21T19:23:00 <gmaxwell> Is there are rpc way to see a fallback fee?
14592017-12-21T19:23:01 <jonasschnelli> Especially if its default enabled and the user don't get informed it was used!
14602017-12-21T19:23:06 <sipa> feeest!
14612017-12-21T19:23:16 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: I don't think so
14622017-12-21T19:23:21 <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: in the gui does the failure message tell you that you can set a fee?
14632017-12-21T19:23:25 <provoostenator> See this comment and the IRC discussion it points back to: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11605#issuecomment-352056518 (also cc bluematt)
14642017-12-21T19:23:26 <jonasschnelli> If we disable it by default, you wonldn't
14652017-12-21T19:23:40 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: no.. but I guess I should add that
14662017-12-21T19:23:58 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: it says you should wait for the feeest to be ready (a couple of blocks)
14672017-12-21T19:24:37 <gmaxwell> We should probably do this but we need to make the matching fixes so that the software isn't unusuable for the first day of running it or whatever. e.g. by telling you that you can manually set a fee and providing facilities to do that.
14682017-12-21T19:24:49 <gmaxwell> probably need to add a trivial rpc to set the fallback fee.
14692017-12-21T19:24:51 <jtimon> ack on RBF by default. I would also remove -mempoolreplacement and always do replacements but that's likely to be more controversial
14702017-12-21T19:25:06 <instagibbs> jtimon, luke-jr says miners actually use this option
14712017-12-21T19:25:10 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: I agree.
14722017-12-21T19:25:10 <wumpus> it's still settable on the command line at least
14732017-12-21T19:25:30 <gmaxwell> since paytxfee doesn't really do the right thing there.
14742017-12-21T19:25:32 <sipa> it's probably best to look at the actual UI, which i haven't :)
14752017-12-21T19:25:33 <jonasschnelli> We could even fetch estimations from bitcoincore.org (*hide* *duck* *runaway")
14762017-12-21T19:25:33 <wumpus> not sure it'd make sense as a RPC, as there's already paytxfee
14772017-12-21T19:25:42 <zelest> sorry for asking, but can anyone just grab whatever bug in the repo and fix it.. and submit a pull request? :o
14782017-12-21T19:25:47 <instagibbs> jonasschnelli, or from one of my two suspended twitter bots :P
14792017-12-21T19:25:54 <jtimon> instagibbs: yeah, I remember that, just repeating my opinion about it
14802017-12-21T19:25:55 <jonasschnelli> heh
14812017-12-21T19:26:02 <gmaxwell> wumpus: IIRC paytxfee overrides the estimator, rather than being overridden by the estimator.
14822017-12-21T19:26:11 <sipa> indeed
14832017-12-21T19:26:13 <wumpus> zelest: no, you need triple-signed off documents from the central committee first
14842017-12-21T19:26:15 *** meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
14852017-12-21T19:26:20 <wumpus> zelest: (yes, everyone can just do that :-)
14862017-12-21T19:26:27 <gmaxwell> wumpus: so if you achieve your fallback by setting paytxfee then you'll end up underpaying even when your estimator knows better.
14872017-12-21T19:26:29 <zelest> Ah ;-)
14882017-12-21T19:26:31 <jonasschnelli> The sendto commands have really no clever way to set the txfee
14892017-12-21T19:26:51 <zelest> Mayhaps this is what I should spend/waste my free time on...
14902017-12-21T19:26:53 <gmaxwell> in any case, I can write the rpc to set the fallback fee, it would be trivial.
14912017-12-21T19:27:02 <jtimon> what is the fallback fee?
14922017-12-21T19:27:07 <meshcollider> hi, sorry I'm late
14932017-12-21T19:27:13 <gmaxwell> and then the errors when you hit that case should just tell you to set the fee.
14942017-12-21T19:27:14 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I think it'd be slightly confusing to add yet another fee setting RPC, but okay
14952017-12-21T19:27:14 <jonasschnelli> jtimon: its the feerate used when no estimations are available
14962017-12-21T19:27:22 <wumpus> another global used in fee determination
14972017-12-21T19:27:24 <jtimon> jonasschnelli: thanks
14982017-12-21T19:27:29 <wumpus> zelest: that'd be awesome
14992017-12-21T19:27:58 <jonasschnelli> I agree with gmaxwell that we need a good UX for the first "day" when fee estimations are not available
15002017-12-21T19:28:03 <gmaxwell> wumpus: Agreed, but I don't see around it, telling lots of people to use paytxfee is probably a bad situation.
15012017-12-21T19:28:10 <promag> so if fee estimation is not available, rpc funding should fail?
15022017-12-21T19:28:22 <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: not just first day, every day, because of resource usage lots of people don't leave their nodes running.
15032017-12-21T19:28:23 <jonasschnelli> promag: Yes
15042017-12-21T19:28:24 <wumpus> gmaxwell: agree...
15052017-12-21T19:28:32 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: indeed.
15062017-12-21T19:28:47 <gmaxwell> promag: unless you've set a fallback feerate.
15072017-12-21T19:28:48 <wumpus> gmaxwell: would almost wish that there'd be something like 'paytxfeepriority' but not that that would be any easier to understand :-)
15082017-12-21T19:28:52 <promag> jonasschnelli: and in the UI too? or prompt for custom?
15092017-12-21T19:28:53 <jtimon> gmaxwell: yeah, or people just shut down their computers when they go to sleep
15102017-12-21T19:28:56 <jonasschnelli> So either the user enters the current feerates into RPC/GUI or we load it from somewhere
15112017-12-21T19:29:03 <wumpus> gmaxwell: (e.g. whether it'd override the fee estimator or not)
15122017-12-21T19:29:04 <promag> gmaxwell: but we want to remove that?
15132017-12-21T19:29:20 <gmaxwell> promag: no we want to eliminate there being a default one.
15142017-12-21T19:29:48 <gmaxwell> The estimator is always going to take time to start working. And it's not reasonable to force people to not transact until they have estimates.
15152017-12-21T19:30:03 <gmaxwell> But a static compiled in fallback is dumb.
15162017-12-21T19:30:05 <wumpus> promag: the problem is that fees are too variable now to hardcode any sensible default in the software
15172017-12-21T19:30:06 <promag> gmaxwell: ok, but once defined it can be outdated very fast
15182017-12-21T19:30:22 <luke-jr> ideally we could pre-sign multiple fee rates and send the higher ones once we have an estimate
15192017-12-21T19:30:43 <promag> luke-jr: only with rbf signaled
15202017-12-21T19:30:54 <gmaxwell> RBFing has complications, unfortunately.
15212017-12-21T19:30:54 <promag> ?
15222017-12-21T19:31:04 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: long term.... yes. Maybe. But complicated to implement
15232017-12-21T19:31:05 <luke-jr> well, require RBF when there's no estimates?
15242017-12-21T19:31:06 *** larafale has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
15252017-12-21T19:31:14 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: I had this in a PR
15262017-12-21T19:31:17 <gmaxwell> You can't just assume that RBF will work unfortunately.
15272017-12-21T19:31:25 <gmaxwell> Because of the pinning problem.
15282017-12-21T19:31:26 <jonasschnelli> But then morocs asked for just disabling fallback.. which makes sense
15292017-12-21T19:31:31 <wumpus> RBF is orthogonal imo
15302017-12-21T19:31:33 <luke-jr> even without RBF, it would probably work if the problem is fee rate too low
15312017-12-21T19:31:43 <instagibbs> gmaxwell, "pinning" meaning someone spending on top?
15322017-12-21T19:31:47 <instagibbs> I like the name if so
15332017-12-21T19:31:48 <luke-jr> if nobody has the conflicting tx in their mempool, it's not even considered a replacement
15342017-12-21T19:31:51 <wumpus> yes, we also want RBF by default, but that doesn't change the fallback fee situation
15352017-12-21T19:31:52 <gmaxwell> instagibbs: with a large txn, yes.
15362017-12-21T19:32:10 <wumpus> certainly not for RPC
15372017-12-21T19:32:32 * luke-jr wonders how pinning affects mempool eviction of low feerate
15382017-12-21T19:32:38 <jonasschnelli> I think the fallback fee problem is solveble in the GUI,... but not sure about RPC layer,... we would have to add feerate parameters to the send commands
15392017-12-21T19:32:41 <gmaxwell> in any case, ACK removing fallback fee but we must be mindful that for a lot of users the no-estimate case will be very frequent so the workflow has to be good: which means clear messages and a straight forward way to set a fee.
15402017-12-21T19:33:03 <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: RPC I think is fine, setfallbackfee ... and the error returned on send tells you that you have to use that.
15412017-12-21T19:33:15 <wumpus> yeah...
15422017-12-21T19:33:22 <jonasschnelli> I think gmaxwell idea with the setfallbackfee RPC makes most sense..
15432017-12-21T19:33:26 <jtimon> yeah I think RBF is orthogonal too. let's just make it default independently of the estimation issue
15442017-12-21T19:33:35 <wumpus> jtimon: agree
15452017-12-21T19:33:37 <gmaxwell> then for cli users the workflow is basically like the GUI one, and for businesses they might pull the fallback off another node, or an estimation site.
15462017-12-21T19:33:48 <wumpus> right
15472017-12-21T19:33:50 <gmaxwell> (automatically)
15482017-12-21T19:33:59 <jtimon> don't we have an estimator purely based on past blocks with no knowledge of the mempool?
15492017-12-21T19:34:27 <instagibbs> jtimon, that's the only way we do it
15502017-12-21T19:34:54 <jtimon> mhm, then why do you need to be up for some time to have estimates?
15512017-12-21T19:34:55 <gmaxwell> instagibbs: not quite we watch the dwell time of transactions that confirm.
15522017-12-21T19:34:59 <gmaxwell> it needs both
15532017-12-21T19:35:01 <promag> how about something to help/speedup fee estimation?
15542017-12-21T19:35:23 <instagibbs> mistook the question
15552017-12-21T19:35:25 <wumpus> using only blocks would be easy to manipulate
15562017-12-21T19:35:26 <promag> like feeding fee estimation with something.. don't know the internals
15572017-12-21T19:35:31 <gmaxwell> using blocks exclusively is exploitable, unfortunately. Though there are limited ways which it could help.
15582017-12-21T19:35:56 <gmaxwell> e.g. you could look at the minimum fee confirmed over many blocks, but sadly it would be misleadingly low because of OOB payments and such.
15592017-12-21T19:36:03 <jtimon> perhaps we could have a non-mempool estimator that is used by default until there's data for the mempool based one
15602017-12-21T19:36:20 <wumpus> adding a new estimator is not going to go for 0.16 at least
15612017-12-21T19:36:33 <wumpus> in the future, who knows
15622017-12-21T19:36:43 <gmaxwell> also it's not likely to be invented by folks who don't know the current one and history. :)
15632017-12-21T19:36:54 <jtimon> say, something stupid like max (the minimum feerate in each block for the last 144 blocks)
15642017-12-21T19:37:38 <gmaxwell> jtimon: yes, maybe... under the bet that there is at least one block with no OOB fees. You'd have to exclude blocks that weren't full.
15652017-12-21T19:37:55 <sipa> or bounding estimates by the feerate at 1 MB vbyte from the top of the mempool
15662017-12-21T19:38:01 <aj> jtimon: aggregate all the fee rates over a bunch of blocks and choose a fee that's higher than ~10% or 20% of them
15672017-12-21T19:38:09 <gmaxwell> sipa: without mempool sync that isn't fast.
15682017-12-21T19:38:16 <jtimon> gmaxwell: right, 100 empty blocks would screw you
15692017-12-21T19:38:18 <sipa> ah yes
15702017-12-21T19:38:23 <gmaxwell> but indeed, once we have some kind of mempool sync we could do things like that.
15712017-12-21T19:38:49 <wumpus> 100 empty blocks would screw everyone
15722017-12-21T19:39:24 <jtimon> is there a way to persist the mempool while running instead of only when shutting down?
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15742017-12-21T19:39:38 <instagibbs> jtimon, i think there is an rpc for that
15752017-12-21T19:39:49 <gmaxwell> jtimon: just go back one day of blocks, counting only blocks at least 0.95*MAX_WEIGHT in size, and check the maximum of their minimum feerates. Would be interesting to see what that yields right now. It _might_ be useful.
15762017-12-21T19:40:05 <wumpus> savemempool RPC
15772017-12-21T19:40:22 <instagibbs> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11099
15782017-12-21T19:40:44 <jtimon> gmaxwell: yeah, that sounds less stupid than what I proposed, and still isn't hard
15792017-12-21T19:40:49 *** MarcoFalke has quit IRC
15802017-12-21T19:41:11 *** bitinvestor has quit IRC
15812017-12-21T19:41:19 <gmaxwell> or instead of their minimum feerate, their Nth percentile feerate.
15822017-12-21T19:41:26 <jtimon> I mean, still probably not for 0.16, but not hard to code I think
15832017-12-21T19:41:31 <gmaxwell> right
15842017-12-21T19:41:48 <wumpus> any other topics?
15852017-12-21T19:42:07 <gmaxwell> e.g. what feerate is less than 95% of the txn in the block... gives it room to ignore 5% priority txn.
15862017-12-21T19:42:18 <jtimon> wumpus: instagibbs thank you! and sorry, the question is kind of unrelated anyway
15872017-12-21T19:42:20 <wumpus> yes that'd make sense
15882017-12-21T19:42:20 <provoostenator> I'm still reluctant about enabling RBF for RPC. Without having a long disucssion here, is there a list of known large services that use Bitcoin Core RPC to broadcast transactions? I'd like to know their take on this.
15892017-12-21T19:42:40 <gmaxwell> provoostenator: an RPC using service can at least read the release note and simply turn it off again.
15902017-12-21T19:42:44 <aj> i did sextile graphs of fee rates aggregated over 24 hours the other day, http://azure.erisian.com.au/~aj/tmp/graphs/fpvb-trends.png and http://azure.erisian.com.au/~aj/tmp/graphs/segwit-comparison.png i think they track pretty well
15912017-12-21T19:42:50 <wumpus> promag: let's first enable it for the gui, at least that's uncontroversial
15922017-12-21T19:42:54 <wumpus> provoostenator*
15932017-12-21T19:43:29 *** MarcoFalke has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
15942017-12-21T19:44:23 <instagibbs> 15 minutes left
15952017-12-21T19:44:25 <provoostenator> It's equally trivial for an RPC user to just set walletrbf=1 if they want to use this. The only problem seems to be code complexity.
15962017-12-21T19:44:30 <wumpus> I think having a too long defaults discussion is not productive, if anyone is opposed to enabling it for RPC with good reason then we shouldn't do that
15972017-12-21T19:44:51 <gmaxwell> rpc can wait, we can release note a reminder that you can turn it on for cli/rpc use.
15982017-12-21T19:44:54 <promag> wumpus: ok
15992017-12-21T19:45:09 <wumpus> people using RPC will usually have a better idea of available options anyhow
16002017-12-21T19:45:12 <provoostenator> gmaxwell: I already put that in the release note in my PR
16012017-12-21T19:45:20 <instagibbs> perhaps with a warning that future versions may change this
16022017-12-21T19:45:21 <provoostenator> (sort of)
16032017-12-21T19:45:21 *** valentinewallace has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
16042017-12-21T19:45:34 <jonasschnelli> I don't think splitting walletrbf between GUI and RPC makes sense in the long run
16052017-12-21T19:45:40 <wumpus> yes, defaults are subject to change
16062017-12-21T19:45:44 <gmaxwell> sipa: so what do you think long term trying to use that block percentile as a maximum fee for a fast estimate, and then use a synced mempool to potentially reduce the number. I think that escapes the primary manipulation concerns we have.
16072017-12-21T19:45:45 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: on the long run it makes no sense
16082017-12-21T19:45:50 <provoostenator> I think it does make sense to treat GUI and RPC different
16092017-12-21T19:45:53 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it'd be a temporary artifact
16102017-12-21T19:45:56 <provoostenator> Very different use cases.
16112017-12-21T19:45:59 <gmaxwell> just get rid of the setting for the GUI.
16122017-12-21T19:46:15 <provoostenator> It's just a code maintenance thing why we shouldn't make them too different.
16132017-12-21T19:46:28 <sipa> gmaxwell: if you're worried about OOB paymemts, shouldn't you also be concerned about OOB refunds?
16142017-12-21T19:46:39 <jonasschnelli> What speak again just enabling -walletrbf GUI/RPC by default?
16152017-12-21T19:46:42 <jonasschnelli> *against
16162017-12-21T19:46:44 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I think that's a good point too - why would the GUI need a setting for the default?
16172017-12-21T19:46:47 <jtimon> i think rbf active is the most sensible default for both rpc and gui
16182017-12-21T19:46:49 <gmaxwell> sipa: OOB refunds don't currently appear to be a real thing.
16192017-12-21T19:46:49 <wumpus> it has a checkbox if you really want to disable it
16202017-12-21T19:46:56 <provoostenator> gmaxwell: yes, I can kill the setting for the GUI, especially because I renamed the RPC setting to -rpcwalletrbf
16212017-12-21T19:47:00 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yep thats just what I was typing, that it has a checkbox.
16222017-12-21T19:47:00 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: people are lazy to read checkboxes? :)
16232017-12-21T19:47:25 <gmaxwell> then they'll certantly not read a setting. :)
16242017-12-21T19:47:26 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: well the default is sensible, lazy people won't want to override it!
16252017-12-21T19:47:32 <wumpus> gmaxwell: indeed
16262017-12-21T19:47:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: for now.
16272017-12-21T19:47:57 <wumpus> +1 on not having the GUI default setting
16282017-12-21T19:48:01 <jonasschnelli> Set walletrbf=1 by default,.. switch the checkbox in the GUI (to disable RBF instead of enable)
16292017-12-21T19:49:24 <jtimon> why not leave the checkbox as meaning enabled but simply have it checked by default?
16302017-12-21T19:49:30 <provoostenator> Rather than renaming -walletrbf to -rpcwalletrbf, I can also make it clear that -walletrbf won't impact the GUI.
16312017-12-21T19:49:43 <wumpus> provoostenator: yes, I'd prefer that
16322017-12-21T19:49:47 <gmaxwell> +1
16332017-12-21T19:49:54 <wumpus> provoostenator: I'd really prefer not to have a rename/deprecate cycle there
16342017-12-21T19:50:00 <wumpus> provoostenator: (as I've expressed before)
16352017-12-21T19:50:03 <gmaxwell> better to not break things for people who are already walletrbf=1 if we can avoid it.
16362017-12-21T19:50:10 <wumpus> yeah...
16372017-12-21T19:50:10 * jonasschnelli unsure
16382017-12-21T19:50:26 <wumpus> just document the option instead of renaming it
16392017-12-21T19:50:27 <jonasschnelli> Wait...yes. This makes sense
16402017-12-21T19:50:28 <provoostenator> Yeah, the deprecation stuff was a bit overkill.
16412017-12-21T19:50:48 <gmaxwell> just adjust the description, make the gui not read that setting for the checkbox default.
16422017-12-21T19:50:49 <wumpus> ok, cool!
16432017-12-21T19:50:55 <wumpus> seems we agree
16442017-12-21T19:50:58 <jonasschnelli> ack
16452017-12-21T19:51:05 <meshcollider> yep sounds good
16462017-12-21T19:51:07 <gmaxwell> if users complain that they can't set a different default we'll deal with that then, but I don't expect it.
16472017-12-21T19:51:15 <luke-jr> why not just let -walletrbf continue to work, but have the new defaults only affect when it's unset?
16482017-12-21T19:51:24 <wumpus> luke-jr: it will continue to work
16492017-12-21T19:51:30 <wumpus> for the RPC
16502017-12-21T19:51:34 <luke-jr> wumpus: I mean for both
16512017-12-21T19:51:37 <wumpus> any other topics?
16522017-12-21T19:51:48 <wumpus> luke-jr: using the same setting with different default in different places was *ugly*
16532017-12-21T19:52:01 <provoostenator> ^
16542017-12-21T19:52:13 <provoostenator> That was actually what I did in the first version, but it's confusing.
16552017-12-21T19:52:24 <gmaxwell> the 'implementation defined behavior when not set' should be used very sparingly.
16562017-12-21T19:52:28 <provoostenator> Making it clear that -walletrbf has no bearing on the GUI (including it's default) seems better.
16572017-12-21T19:52:31 <luke-jr> IMO the ugliness only comes from having two defaults, not from having a common setting
16582017-12-21T19:52:42 <wumpus> yes, that used to be the case, but it's no way to handle options imo, and won't be ocmpatible when we introduce an actual options registration/parsing system
16592017-12-21T19:52:47 <provoostenator> I'll push that after the meeting.
16602017-12-21T19:52:57 <jonasschnelli> Thanks provoostenator!
16612017-12-21T19:52:58 <gmaxwell> In general we should probably not have config file setting for GUI checkboxes that stare the user in the face.
16622017-12-21T19:53:06 <provoostenator> Remind me not to make changes to defaults too often :-)
16632017-12-21T19:53:09 <gmaxwell> if the GUI wants a persistant default it should be changable from the GUI.
16642017-12-21T19:53:14 <meshcollider> Which I am trying to work on at the moment :)
16652017-12-21T19:53:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: via rwconf ;)
16662017-12-21T19:53:18 <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: hah... these are the worst. :)
16672017-12-21T19:53:20 <gmaxwell> But hopefully we won't need a changable persistant default for this.
16682017-12-21T19:53:50 <wumpus> right
16692017-12-21T19:53:53 <jtimon> the rbf checkbox doesn't appear with every tx?
16702017-12-21T19:54:03 <provoostenator> luke-jr: rwconf?
16712017-12-21T19:54:17 <wumpus> jtimon: isn't it always there?
16722017-12-21T19:54:20 <meshcollider> jtimon: what?
16732017-12-21T19:54:21 <gmaxwell> provoostenator: code to allow the conf file to be rewritten by setting changes at runtime.
16742017-12-21T19:54:23 <luke-jr> provoostenator: lets the GUI change config file settings
16752017-12-21T19:54:32 <wumpus> please, no scope creep
16762017-12-21T19:54:38 <gmaxwell> that was just a tangent.
16772017-12-21T19:54:44 <gmaxwell> not scope creep. :)
16782017-12-21T19:54:55 <provoostenator> Ah, so we don't have this "here's a setting, but if you use -blah it's overridden, unless you also have bitcoin.conf, unless you have another one" stuff?
16792017-12-21T19:55:17 <gmaxwell> I was just expressing the principle that controlling GUI defaults via non-gui accessable settings is just not very good.
16802017-12-21T19:55:24 <jtimon> sorry, I should look at the gui. my assumption was that for every tx a checkbox would say "allow rbf" and that is unchecked by default and we're moving to checked by default
16812017-12-21T19:55:31 <wumpus> it would add another bitcoin.conf, bitcoin_rw.conf, which can be written by the software itself
16822017-12-21T19:55:45 <provoostenator> gmaxwell: indeed, also not very easy to launch QT with flags on OSX.
16832017-12-21T19:55:53 <gmaxwell> I know, we could save the users settings ON THE BLOCKCHAIN
16842017-12-21T19:56:03 <meshcollider> jtimon: yep that's basically what this is doing
16852017-12-21T19:56:08 <wumpus> hehehe, settings delta chain
16862017-12-21T19:56:10 <sipa> gmaxwell: woah!
16872017-12-21T19:56:44 <meshcollider> lol
16882017-12-21T19:56:50 * cfields founds chainsettingsalytics
16892017-12-21T19:56:51 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I"m surprised that no *coin project commits git diffs to the blockchain yet
16902017-12-21T19:56:56 <jtimon> meshcollider: then I don't understand the -walletrbf discussion, but it's fine
16912017-12-21T19:57:02 <gmaxwell> plus the related costs will make them never get changed, and since they're never changed we could remove the implementation of the choices... less UI to maintain!
16922017-12-21T19:57:12 <provoostenator> Some people use opentimestamps for that
16932017-12-21T19:57:24 <provoostenator> The git integration thing.
16942017-12-21T19:57:32 <achow101> wumpus: there's definitely a Core commit diff somewhere on the blockchain
16952017-12-21T19:57:33 <meshcollider> jtimon: the walletrbf discussion is about whether that parameter should affect the GUI default or only the RPC I believe
16962017-12-21T19:57:34 <wumpus> or even better, just commit javascript code for the GUI to the block chain
16972017-12-21T19:57:42 <wumpus> :')
16982017-12-21T19:57:47 <achow101> I found it once, but don't know where it is
16992017-12-21T19:58:05 <wumpus> achow101: oh! which one?
17002017-12-21T19:58:19 <wumpus> it'd certainly create incentive to make patches small
17012017-12-21T19:58:23 <achow101> wumpus: I don't quite remember
17022017-12-21T19:58:56 <jtimon> meshcollider: right, we're moving to not affecting it seems, which is what makes most sense to me, just what I described with no relation to -walletrbf. so it's fine.
17032017-12-21T19:58:57 <meshcollider> wumpus: heh why just the GUI, entire new versions of core could be downloaded directly from the blockchain too!
17042017-12-21T19:59:08 <wumpus> no one would submit a diff-all-over-the-place PR if it costs >300 sat/byte
17052017-12-21T19:59:24 *** btcdrak has quit IRC
17062017-12-21T19:59:28 <wumpus> meshcollider: yes of course, updates to the consensus algo too :')
17072017-12-21T19:59:29 <sipa> wumpus: do you get a refund for deleted lines?
17082017-12-21T19:59:34 <wumpus> sipa: yes!
17092017-12-21T19:59:35 <provoostenator> Unless they want to show off their wealth as an offering...
17102017-12-21T19:59:37 <meshcollider> jtimon: yep exactly
17112017-12-21T19:59:38 <jtimon> meshcollider: that would be great to make sure everyone upgrades before a hf :p
17122017-12-21T19:59:44 <sipa> wumpus: brb, deleting all the tests
17132017-12-21T19:59:54 <wumpus> sipa: but only if accepted :-)
17142017-12-21T19:59:57 <luke-jr> wumpus: you're going to give my children nightmares
17152017-12-21T19:59:58 <sipa> oh.
17162017-12-21T20:00:05 <sipa> DONG
17172017-12-21T20:00:08 <wumpus> #endmeeting
17182017-12-21T20:00:08 <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Dec 21 20:00:08 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
17192017-12-21T20:00:08 <lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-21-19.01.html
17202017-12-21T20:00:08 <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-21-19.01.txt
17212017-12-21T20:00:08 <lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-21-19.01.log.html
17222017-12-21T20:00:10 <wumpus> luke-jr: uh oh
17232017-12-21T20:00:17 <jonasschnelli> cfields: chainsettingsalytics?
17242017-12-21T20:00:17 <achow101> I forgot there was a meeting today..
17252017-12-21T20:00:40 <meshcollider> achow101: at least you made it for the end ;)
17262017-12-21T20:00:52 <cfields> jonasschnelli: for tracking and selling on-chain user settings, of course
17272017-12-21T20:01:05 <jtimon> -forceautoupgradeonversionsolderthanthisoption
17282017-12-21T20:01:06 <cfields> jonasschnelli: you happen to have git revisions for good/broken gitian builds?
17292017-12-21T20:01:10 <sipa> achow101: you should make the blockchain remind you
17302017-12-21T20:01:17 <achow101> sipa: lol
17312017-12-21T20:01:21 <jonasschnelli> cfields: let me check
17322017-12-21T20:01:33 <cfields> thanks
17332017-12-21T20:01:47 <jonasschnelli> Good: 38d31f95
17342017-12-21T20:01:53 <jtimon> sipa: can you even program a smart contract alarm without turing completeness? :p
17352017-12-21T20:01:53 <jonasschnelli> Broken: 13e31dd6
17362017-12-21T20:01:56 <jonasschnelli> Happy bisect
17372017-12-21T20:02:05 *** jb55 has quit IRC
17382017-12-21T20:02:18 <achow101> in other unrelated news, I finally got around to simulating the branch and bound coin selection stuff
17392017-12-21T20:02:19 <cfields> perfect! thanks :)
17402017-12-21T20:04:32 <jtimon> alright, I'm going to go try that savemempool rpc...
17412017-12-21T20:07:48 <jonasschnelli> jtimon: why?
17422017-12-21T20:07:55 *** jb55 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
17432017-12-21T20:08:00 <gmaxwell> achow101: and?
17442017-12-21T20:08:06 <wumpus> FYI you can only save to the default file, it doesn't take a filename argument
17452017-12-21T20:08:10 <achow101> gmaxwell: it's taking a long time
17462017-12-21T20:08:19 *** spence has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
17472017-12-21T20:08:43 <achow101> I'm looking at some results right now and I'll add a comment to the PR with them
17482017-12-21T20:11:24 <achow101> gmaxwell: AFAICT, it performs on par with the current coin selection behavior but I think that might be because BnB was only used <3% of the time with the dataset and parameters I just tried
17492017-12-21T20:13:06 <spence> Is there a roadmap for integrating segwit better into Core? Gui, etc...
17502017-12-21T20:13:30 <gmaxwell> it'll be in the next release.
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17532017-12-21T20:16:33 <wumpus> #11403
17542017-12-21T20:16:43 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11403 | SegWit wallet support by sipa · Pull Request #11403 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
17552017-12-21T20:17:58 *** SopaXorzTaker has quit IRC
17562017-12-21T20:20:43 <contrapumpkin> is there a way I can feed bitcoin core an HD wallet xpub key and get it to monitor the balance without holding the private keys?
17572017-12-21T20:20:51 <contrapumpkin> oh sorry, wrong channel
17582017-12-21T20:21:05 <provoostenator> On a meta note. Looks like I can keep helping out for a while without running out food :-) https://blog.blockchain.com/2017/12/21/first-open-source-developer/
17592017-12-21T20:21:55 <achow101> provoostenator: congrats!
17602017-12-21T20:23:28 <jtimon> jonasschnelli: I'm working on an explorer, and every time I deploy ir restarts the daemon's container, but it doesn't wait for the mempool dump, so I lose the whole mempool every time. I'll fix it with process that periodically calls savemempool
17612017-12-21T20:23:43 <jonasschnelli> ah
17622017-12-21T20:24:47 <sipa> provoostenator: congratulations
17632017-12-21T20:24:50 <sipa> very happy to see that
17642017-12-21T20:25:22 <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: Oh. Nice! Well done.
17652017-12-21T20:25:45 <wumpus> provoostenator: great!
17662017-12-21T20:26:20 <jimpo> Just out of curiousity, why is much of the secp256k1 code in _impl.h header files instead of .c files?
17672017-12-21T20:27:06 <wumpus> jimpo: optimization, scope for inlining, as well as making it easy to add secp256k1 to a project by just adding one .c file
17682017-12-21T20:27:35 *** intcat has quit IRC
17692017-12-21T20:28:15 <jtimon> provoostenator: cool, great news
17702017-12-21T20:29:34 *** intcat has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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17732017-12-21T20:32:47 <meshcollider> ð
17742017-12-21T20:32:50 <cfields> provoostenator: congrats!
17752017-12-21T20:33:46 <zelest> how much of self-torture will I have to live through to get bitcoin running on OpenBSD? :)
17762017-12-21T20:33:49 <provoostenator> Thanks! Also, updated #11605 (but do check carefully, it's a bit late here...)
17772017-12-21T20:33:52 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11605 | [Wallet] Enable RBF by default in QT by Sjors · Pull Request #11605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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17802017-12-21T20:39:16 <cfields> zelest: there are freshly updated docs for that
17812017-12-21T20:39:48 <cfields> wumpus self-tortured himself so you wouldn't have to
17822017-12-21T20:41:01 <wumpus> cfields: well we didn't update the docs yet for openbsd 6.2, just the bdb building tool
17832017-12-21T20:41:14 <wumpus> although the current instructions should work
17842017-12-21T20:41:23 <cfields> oh, i thought that was all that was needed
17852017-12-21T20:41:57 <wumpus> the docs could be really simplified because openbsd 6.2 includes clang, it currently tells to install either clang or a newer gcc
17862017-12-21T20:42:18 <wumpus> openbsd 6.2's built-in compiler can build bitcoin core :)
17872017-12-21T20:42:24 <cfields> ah right
17882017-12-21T20:42:28 <cfields> nice
17892017-12-21T20:43:08 <cfields> wonder what obsd would've done without clang.
17902017-12-21T20:44:20 <wumpus> dunno either, could hardly have sticked with gcc 4.2 forever
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17922017-12-21T20:46:41 <wumpus> zelest: so basically: append CC=cc CXX=c++ to the contrib/install_db4.sh and configure commands
17932017-12-21T20:47:11 <wumpus> so that it will use clang and not the gcc 4.2, which for some reason is still installed
17942017-12-21T20:47:30 *** jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk
17952017-12-21T20:48:14 <wumpus> (or maybe that's because my openbsd box was upgraded from $OLD_VERSION)
17962017-12-21T20:48:44 <cfields> it switched your default cc/c++ after an upgrade?
17972017-12-21T20:49:37 <wumpus> it didn't use to have cc/c++, just gcc/g++
17982017-12-21T20:49:51 <cfields> ah
17992017-12-21T20:49:58 *** whphhg has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
18002017-12-21T20:50:29 <wumpus> and by default, most build systems will pick gcc over cc
18012017-12-21T20:50:30 <cfields> yikes, though. buildsystems do all kinds of combinations of checks for cc/gcc
18022017-12-21T20:50:40 <cfields> stupid cmake, for example, uses cc/c++
18032017-12-21T20:51:24 <wumpus> I should try installing an openbsd 6.2 from scratch and see if it has only clang, that'd make more sense
18042017-12-21T20:52:00 <wumpus> g++ and c++ have an incompatible abi so ou're right that it cause all kind of pain
18052017-12-21T20:52:01 <cfields> or gcc -> cc
18062017-12-21T20:52:07 <cfields> that's what macos does
18072017-12-21T20:52:36 <wumpus> yes the same command line interface anyway
18082017-12-21T20:53:40 <cfields> 10% unrelated: gcc is able to build in a chroot with only binutils/gmake/previous gcc/libc/kernel headers.
18092017-12-21T20:54:08 <cfields> cmake, however, is the first to require a whole mess of libs :(
18102017-12-21T20:54:17 *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC
18112017-12-21T20:54:19 <wumpus> what do we need cmake for?
18122017-12-21T20:54:25 <wumpus> it's mostly used for graphical stuff right?
18132017-12-21T20:54:26 <cfields> clang
18142017-12-21T20:54:30 <wumpus> oh
18152017-12-21T20:54:45 <cfields> so no avoiding it as part of the early build process, i'm afraid
18162017-12-21T20:55:46 <wumpus> clang is cmake only now?
18172017-12-21T20:55:58 <wumpus> Ithought it had an autoconf based build as well
18182017-12-21T20:56:06 <cfields> not sure if it is for 5.0, but if not, the autotools is heavily deprecated
18192017-12-21T20:56:16 <wumpus> ah yes you're right
18202017-12-21T20:56:39 <wumpus> I see I also switched my clang configuration script to cmake at some point, apparently without remembering
18212017-12-21T20:56:52 <cfields> heh
18222017-12-21T20:57:04 <cfields> well it's probably not all that different if you're using all system paths
18232017-12-21T20:58:11 <wumpus> cmake -DLLVM_TOOL_COMPILER_RT_BUILD:BOOL=ON -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=ON -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/clang${VER} -DLLVM_BINUTILS_INCDIR=/usr/include -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=RelWithDebInfo ../llvm
18242017-12-21T20:58:18 <wumpus> well it's not as bad as some cross-compiles...
18252017-12-21T21:02:03 <zelest> wumpus, Ah, awesome! thanks :)
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18382017-12-21T21:49:35 <zelest> wumpus, boo! the compile blew up P
18392017-12-21T21:49:36 <zelest> :P
18402017-12-21T21:50:30 <wumpus> with what?
18412017-12-21T21:50:36 <zelest> https://pastebin.com/0WLsNR7j
18422017-12-21T21:51:18 <wumpus> zelest: what version are you building?
18432017-12-21T21:51:49 <wumpus> and you did do contrib/install_db4.sh CC=cc CXX=c++ ?
18442017-12-21T21:52:17 <wumpus> this happens when dbc++ was built with a different compiler than bitcoind
18452017-12-21T21:53:38 <zelest> wumpus, 0.15.1 and yeah.. and no, I used CC=egcc CXX=eg++ CPP=ecpp :o
18462017-12-21T21:53:58 <sipa> what version of gcc is that?
18472017-12-21T21:54:10 <zelest> 4.2.1
18482017-12-21T21:54:32 <zelest> i did however run ./configure with CC=cc and CXX=c++
18492017-12-21T21:54:41 <sipa> that won't work
18502017-12-21T21:54:44 <sipa> you need gcc 4.7
18512017-12-21T21:55:12 * zelest tries what wumpus suggested and runs llvm for both dbc++ and bitcoind
18522017-12-21T21:56:02 <wumpus> zelest: 0.15.1 doesn't have the necessary patch, unfortunately that install_db4.sh ignores arguments
18532017-12-21T21:56:10 <zelest> oh
18542017-12-21T21:56:39 <wumpus> this was fixed on master yesterday with #11945
18552017-12-21T21:56:41 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11945 | Improve BSD compatibility of contrib/install_db4.sh by laanwj · Pull Request #11945 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
18562017-12-21T21:56:49 <wumpus> you could probably just copy the file from there
18572017-12-21T21:57:01 <zelest> wumpus, can I compile master? (i saw build:failed on there, hence me picking 0.15.1)
18582017-12-21T21:57:06 <wumpus> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/laanwj/bitcoin/2712742ef2947feef4a142f7d1360d1e821597dc/contrib/install_db4.sh
18592017-12-21T21:57:08 <zelest> ah
18602017-12-21T21:57:18 <wumpus> sure, you can build master
18612017-12-21T21:57:46 <zelest> oh yeah, the link in build-openbsd.md is wrong btw
18622017-12-21T21:57:49 <zelest> it 404s
18632017-12-21T21:57:52 <wumpus> but thanks for reminding me it needs a backport label
18642017-12-21T21:58:15 <wumpus> which link?
18652017-12-21T21:59:50 <wumpus> anyhow that's likely fixed on master too
18662017-12-21T21:59:51 <zelest> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-openbsd.md the "the installation script included in contrib/" under Building Berkley DB
18672017-12-21T22:00:17 <zelest> BerkeleyDB*
18682017-12-21T22:03:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laudaa opened pull request #11976: [Doc] Fix link to installation script (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11976
18692017-12-21T22:03:48 <Lauda> Sorry, we missed that one
18702017-12-21T22:03:57 <wumpus> apparently Lauda in #11960 fixed that in all files except build-openbsd.md in
18712017-12-21T22:03:59 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11960 | [Doc] Fix link to installation script by laudaa · Pull Request #11960 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
18722017-12-21T22:06:02 <zelest> no love for OpenBSD :(
18732017-12-21T22:09:19 <Emcy> !topic
18742017-12-21T22:09:19 <gribble> Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | This is the channel for developing Bitcoin Core. Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev, http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/
18752017-12-21T22:09:34 <Emcy> when are the meetings? weekly?
18762017-12-21T22:09:50 <Lauda> Yes
18772017-12-21T22:09:59 <wumpus> 19:00-20:00 UTC Thursdays, you just missed one
18782017-12-21T22:10:24 <Emcy> ok
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18842017-12-21T22:27:14 <zelest> wumpus, yeah, failed even with those CC flags
18852017-12-21T22:27:19 <zelest> oh well
18862017-12-21T22:29:25 <Emcy> 0.16 i branching soon. nice.
18872017-12-21T22:29:33 <wumpus> zelest: so you used the new version of install_db4.sh?
18882017-12-21T22:29:37 <zelest> yeah
18892017-12-21T22:29:42 <Emcy> and segwit gui is getting merged
18902017-12-21T22:29:54 <wumpus> zelest: ok, no clue in that case, it worked for me
18912017-12-21T22:30:14 <zelest> wumpus, i'm using -current though, might affecting it.. *shrugs*
18922017-12-21T22:30:32 <zelest> also had it running back in 6.1
18932017-12-21T22:31:08 <zelest> wumpus, thanks for all the help though :)
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18952017-12-21T22:32:27 <wumpus> zelest: I don't think that should matter - what matters is that both dbc++ and bitcoind are compiled with the same c and c++ compiler
18962017-12-21T22:32:42 <wumpus> zelest: if not, you get linker errors, due to ABI mismatch
18972017-12-21T22:33:21 *** Joshua has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
18982017-12-21T22:33:44 *** Joshua is now known as Guest99499
18992017-12-21T22:34:41 <zelest> hmms..
19002017-12-21T22:34:48 <Guest99499> How can 4 btc come out of my wallet and I did not send anything
19012017-12-21T22:35:45 <Guest99499> It was several different transactions with the same address going out is it rerouting
19022017-12-21T22:35:59 <zelest> wumpus, i will give it another go tomorrow and start out with a fresh copy of both source trees.. need to hit the shower before i hit the sack. :)
19032017-12-21T22:36:08 <Guest99499> Will it come back to my Wallet
19042017-12-21T22:36:32 <sipa> Guest99499: #bitcoin
19052017-12-21T22:36:34 <wumpus> zelest: yes it might be that something left behind from earlier builds; also it's a good idea to pipe the build output to a file to see if the right compiler gets used
19062017-12-21T22:36:41 <sipa> Guest99499: or https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com
19072017-12-21T22:36:58 <zelest> wumpus, ah, true
19082017-12-21T22:37:33 <Guest99499> So there's nothing to worry about it will come back to my wallet
19092017-12-21T22:37:45 <sipa> Guest99499: not here.
19102017-12-21T22:39:42 <Guest99499> How can I get my missing btc back in my wallet Who authorized to take it out
19112017-12-21T22:40:43 *** Murch has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
19122017-12-21T22:41:38 <Guest99499> Has anybody else had the same problem
19132017-12-21T22:41:39 *** jb55 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
19142017-12-21T22:44:16 <wumpus> Guest99499: #bitcoin please
19152017-12-21T22:44:22 <sipa> Guest99499: last warning, not here. this channel is for development, not support
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19172017-12-21T22:59:52 *** talha_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
19182017-12-21T22:59:59 <talha_> hi
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19212017-12-21T23:04:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theuni opened pull request #11981: Fix gitian build after libzmq bump (master...fix-gitian-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11981
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19272017-12-21T23:13:54 <talha_> any fork expert here?
19282017-12-21T23:14:39 <wumpus> that's off topic here
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19362017-12-21T23:34:30 <talha_> whats the topic here?
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19382017-12-21T23:36:47 <zelest> wumpus, heh, who needs sleep.. :D removed both trees and started over. seems to be compiling now.. \o/
19392017-12-21T23:41:12 *** Cogito_Ergo_Sum has quit IRC
19402017-12-21T23:45:03 <meshcollider> talha_: topic here is development of bitcoin core, not any other software or forks
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