1 2018-02-07T00:08:38 <BlueMatt> cfields: just have to be enough time for you to hit "close"...I was using 5sec, but ofc any number works 2 2018-02-07T00:10:49 *** dongcarl has quit IRC 3 2018-02-07T00:13:10 *** ajtowns[m] has quit IRC 4 2018-02-07T00:13:39 *** Masaomi[m] has quit IRC 5 2018-02-07T00:13:44 *** kewde[m] has quit IRC 6 2018-02-07T00:14:14 *** herzmeister[m] has quit IRC 7 2018-02-07T00:14:14 *** ludens[m] has quit IRC 8 2018-02-07T00:14:57 *** MrPaz has quit IRC 9 2018-02-07T00:24:40 *** wunpunch has quit IRC 10 2018-02-07T00:25:37 *** Randolf has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 11 2018-02-07T00:32:25 *** tryphe has quit IRC 12 2018-02-07T00:33:40 *** echonaut has quit IRC 13 2018-02-07T00:33:51 *** echonaut1 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 14 2018-02-07T00:34:25 *** droark has quit IRC 15 2018-02-07T00:35:19 *** tryphe has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 16 2018-02-07T00:44:18 *** kewde[m] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 17 2018-02-07T00:44:45 *** larafale has quit IRC 18 2018-02-07T00:47:57 *** Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 19 2018-02-07T00:49:21 *** wxss has quit IRC 20 2018-02-07T00:50:21 *** n00by_d00by has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 21 2018-02-07T00:53:05 *** Evel-Knievel has quit IRC 22 2018-02-07T00:53:41 *** herzmeister[m] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 23 2018-02-07T00:53:41 *** ajtowns[m] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 24 2018-02-07T00:53:48 *** Masaomi[m] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 25 2018-02-07T00:53:49 *** ludens[m] has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 26 2018-02-07T00:54:15 *** n00by_d00by has quit IRC 27 2018-02-07T01:00:21 *** dabura667 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 28 2018-02-07T01:20:28 *** Tennis has quit IRC 29 2018-02-07T01:22:37 *** droark has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 30 2018-02-07T01:34:41 *** MrPaz has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 31 2018-02-07T02:01:38 *** neha has quit IRC 32 2018-02-07T02:02:36 *** neha has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 33 2018-02-07T02:03:57 *** Randolf has quit IRC 34 2018-02-07T02:06:22 *** Murch has quit IRC 35 2018-02-07T02:11:34 *** jamesob has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 36 2018-02-07T02:12:26 *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC 37 2018-02-07T02:51:35 *** jamesob has quit IRC 38 2018-02-07T02:54:40 *** Masaomi[m] has quit IRC 39 2018-02-07T02:54:41 *** herzmeister[m] has quit IRC 40 2018-02-07T02:54:48 *** ludens[m] has quit IRC 41 2018-02-07T02:54:48 *** ajtowns[m] has quit IRC 42 2018-02-07T02:55:11 *** Emcy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 43 2018-02-07T02:55:26 *** kewde[m] has quit IRC 44 2018-02-07T02:58:35 *** Emcy_ has quit IRC 45 2018-02-07T03:05:46 <conman> hmm 0.16.0rc2 doesn't like my testnet in a box 46 2018-02-07T03:05:50 <conman> validation.cpp:4391: void CChainState::CheckBlockIndex(const Consensus::Params&): Assertion `(pindexFirstNeverProcessed != nullptr) == (pindex->nChainTx == 0)' failed. 47 2018-02-07T03:06:32 <conman> works fine with 0.15.x 48 2018-02-07T03:17:48 *** jtimon has quit IRC 49 2018-02-07T03:27:25 *** AaronvanW has quit IRC 50 2018-02-07T03:32:16 *** zautomata1 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 51 2018-02-07T03:32:40 <BlueMatt> conman: most likely not a regression.....new defaults - checkblockindex is on by default on testnet now 52 2018-02-07T03:34:23 *** zautomata has quit IRC 53 2018-02-07T03:38:35 <conman> k 54 2018-02-07T03:38:45 <conman> it's regtest obviously 55 2018-02-07T03:39:24 *** rex_4539 has quit IRC 56 2018-02-07T03:41:39 *** MrPaz has quit IRC 57 2018-02-07T03:42:57 <BlueMatt> will look into it tomorrow, please file issue 58 2018-02-07T03:43:02 <BlueMatt> (if there isnt one already) 59 2018-02-07T03:44:05 <BlueMatt> nvm, 311782 60 2018-02-07T03:44:10 <BlueMatt> nvm, #11782 61 2018-02-07T03:44:11 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11782 | Assertion failure in validation.cpp:4203 (re: pindexFirstNeverProcessed) Â· Issue #11782 Â· bitcoin/bitcoin Â· GitHub 62 2018-02-07T03:44:46 <BlueMatt> conman: does that match your issue? (due to an upgrade on regtest without a reindex-chainstate) 63 2018-02-07T03:44:46 *** neha has quit IRC 64 2018-02-07T03:44:54 <BlueMatt> its a change in network parameters on regtest 65 2018-02-07T03:45:14 <BlueMatt> also, probably want to release-notes this one! 66 2018-02-07T03:46:31 *** neha has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 67 2018-02-07T03:48:58 <conman> looks the same 68 2018-02-07T03:52:28 <conman> thanks 69 2018-02-07T03:52:33 *** belcher has quit IRC 70 2018-02-07T03:52:40 *** Giszmo has quit IRC 71 2018-02-07T03:57:58 *** arubi has quit IRC 72 2018-02-07T03:58:51 *** arubi has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 73 2018-02-07T04:21:08 *** echonaut1 has quit IRC 74 2018-02-07T04:21:14 *** echonaut has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 75 2018-02-07T04:24:05 *** cryptojanitor has quit IRC 76 2018-02-07T04:24:14 *** Evel-Knievel has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 77 2018-02-07T04:43:13 *** hanzou has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 78 2018-02-07T04:45:50 <hanzou> I notice that getblocks (NetMsgType::GETBLOCKS) seems to be defined but never used, just GETBLOCKTXN and others. 79 2018-02-07T04:49:42 <hanzou> Well Bitcoin core has code such that a client will respond to getblocks, but it never sends it. 80 2018-02-07T04:49:53 <hanzou> When did clients stop sending getblocks? 81 2018-02-07T04:50:36 <sipa> BIP152 82 2018-02-07T04:51:04 <sipa> between compatible clients, getblocks isn't used anymore as BIP152 (compact blocks) is much more efficient 83 2018-02-07T04:55:34 <sipa> getblocks is still used while synchronizing old blocks 84 2018-02-07T04:57:56 *** jjjkkk has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 85 2018-02-07T04:58:33 <jjjkkk> test 86 2018-02-07T04:59:44 *** jjjkkk has quit IRC 87 2018-02-07T05:12:34 *** CubicEarths has quit IRC 88 2018-02-07T05:28:15 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] murrayn opened pull request #12373: Build: Add build support for profiling. 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has quit IRC 155 2018-02-07T09:31:03 *** AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 156 2018-02-07T09:34:53 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #12374: qt: Make sure splash screen is freed on AppInitMain fail (master...2017_02_splash_abort) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12374 157 2018-02-07T09:35:35 *** AaronvanW has quit IRC 158 2018-02-07T09:36:20 *** vicenteH has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 159 2018-02-07T09:49:31 *** laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 160 2018-02-07T09:50:13 *** laurentmt has quit IRC 161 2018-02-07T09:57:31 *** mmgen has quit IRC 162 2018-02-07T10:00:57 *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 163 2018-02-07T10:02:56 *** mmgen has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 164 2018-02-07T10:04:51 *** drizztbsd has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 165 2018-02-07T10:05:30 *** timothy has quit IRC 166 2018-02-07T10:06:28 *** checksauce has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 167 2018-02-07T10:07:13 *** checksau_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 168 2018-02-07T10:10:57 *** checksauce has 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quit IRC 203 2018-02-07T13:34:15 *** dermoth has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 204 2018-02-07T13:34:25 *** arubi has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 205 2018-02-07T13:40:23 *** root__ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 206 2018-02-07T13:40:27 *** arbitrary_guy has quit IRC 207 2018-02-07T13:43:17 *** Roben has quit IRC 208 2018-02-07T13:51:45 *** RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 209 2018-02-07T13:57:57 *** Deadhand has quit IRC 210 2018-02-07T14:03:28 *** root__ has quit IRC 211 2018-02-07T14:03:51 *** root__ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 212 2018-02-07T14:06:29 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #12377: qt: Avoid initialization during shutdown (master...Mf1802-qtInitShutdown) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12377 213 2018-02-07T14:09:38 *** laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 214 2018-02-07T14:10:11 *** laurentmt has quit IRC 215 2018-02-07T14:14:18 *** jtimon has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 216 2018-02-07T14:23:36 *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 217 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IRC 234 2018-02-07T15:09:37 <rooster__> Anyone home? :) 235 2018-02-07T15:11:43 *** rex_4539 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 236 2018-02-07T15:12:14 *** checksauce has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 237 2018-02-07T15:12:52 *** checksauce has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 238 2018-02-07T15:13:10 <rooster__> Yo Rex! 239 2018-02-07T15:13:17 <rooster__> Whats the word? 240 2018-02-07T15:15:06 <rooster__> I am wondering if anyone can lend me a quick hand :? 241 2018-02-07T15:16:08 <rooster__> I am implementing the bitcoin protocol in Android/Java. When I send a getaddr message, the peer responds with an alert message? 242 2018-02-07T15:16:35 <Lauda> Try #bitcoin or #bitcoin-dev; this is the wrong channel for that. 243 2018-02-07T15:17:28 <rooster__> Thanks lauda, ill post on there :0 244 2018-02-07T15:17:30 <rooster__> :) 245 2018-02-07T15:18:01 *** rooster__ has left #bitcoin-core-dev 246 2018-02-07T15:21:47 *** ken2812221 has quit IRC 247 2018-02-07T15:22:03 *** ken2812221 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 248 2018-02-07T15:26:54 *** kabaum has quit IRC 249 2018-02-07T15:30:01 *** AaronvanW has quit IRC 250 2018-02-07T15:32:41 *** quer has quit IRC 251 2018-02-07T15:32:47 *** AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 252 2018-02-07T15:33:18 *** quer has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 253 2018-02-07T15:37:10 *** AaronvanW has quit IRC 254 2018-02-07T15:38:22 *** owowo has quit IRC 255 2018-02-07T15:42:03 *** owowo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 256 2018-02-07T15:42:12 *** Dizzle has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 257 2018-02-07T15:42:43 *** AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 258 2018-02-07T15:46:40 *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC 259 2018-02-07T15:47:31 *** laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 260 2018-02-07T15:47:42 *** AaronvanW has quit IRC 261 2018-02-07T15:49:28 *** cryptojanitor has quit IRC 262 2018-02-07T15:52:43 <sdaftuar> hanzou: sipa: getblocks is what we used to do before headers-first sync. it's been replaced by getheaders, since 0.10 i think 263 2018-02-07T15:53:57 *** DrFeelGood has quit IRC 264 2018-02-07T16:01:39 *** Victorsueca has quit IRC 265 2018-02-07T16:02:48 *** Victorsueca has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 266 2018-02-07T16:03:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #12379: [WIP] Better stderr testing in functional tests (master...test_full_stderr2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12379 267 2018-02-07T16:05:50 *** murrayn has quit IRC 268 2018-02-07T16:06:48 *** murrayn has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 269 2018-02-07T16:06:48 *** murrayn has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 270 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*** ken2812221 has quit IRC 304 2018-02-07T18:36:05 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #12380: 0.16: Check in current release notes draft (0.16...Mf1802-docRel16) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12380 305 2018-02-07T18:39:13 *** arbitrary_guy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 306 2018-02-07T18:43:13 *** vicenteH has quit IRC 307 2018-02-07T18:52:47 *** arbitrary_guy has quit IRC 308 2018-02-07T18:54:00 *** Giszmo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 309 2018-02-07T18:55:14 *** SopaXorzTaker has quit IRC 310 2018-02-07T18:56:17 *** sengehest has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 311 2018-02-07T19:03:57 *** Pavle has quit IRC 312 2018-02-07T19:13:01 *** d9b4bef9 has quit IRC 313 2018-02-07T19:14:08 *** d9b4bef9 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 314 2018-02-07T19:34:02 *** Giszmo has quit IRC 315 2018-02-07T19:36:01 *** mirese has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 316 2018-02-07T19:39:28 *** mirese_ has quit IRC 317 2018-02-07T19:41:03 *** wxss has quit IRC 318 2018-02-07T19:42:56 *** wxss has 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has quit IRC 336 2018-02-07T20:34:32 *** CubicEarths has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 337 2018-02-07T20:47:07 *** vicenteH has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 338 2018-02-07T21:01:10 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 339 2018-02-07T21:02:46 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 340 2018-02-07T21:08:20 *** karenin has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 341 2018-02-07T21:12:56 *** mirese has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 342 2018-02-07T21:15:27 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 343 2018-02-07T21:16:30 *** mirese_ has quit IRC 344 2018-02-07T21:16:38 *** owowo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 345 2018-02-07T21:16:38 *** owowo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 346 2018-02-07T21:18:09 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1462bde767a1...0277173b1def 347 2018-02-07T21:18:10 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9ad6746 practicalswift: Use static_cast instead of C-style casts for non-fundamental types... 348 2018-02-07T21:18:10 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0277173 MarcoFalke: Merge #10498: Use static_cast instead of C-style casts for non-fundamental types... 349 2018-02-07T21:18:22 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #10498: Use static_cast instead of C-style casts for non-fundamental types (master...static_cast) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10498 350 2018-02-07T21:20:32 *** mmgen has quit IRC 351 2018-02-07T21:26:11 *** Roben has quit IRC 352 2018-02-07T21:32:00 *** Victorsueca has quit IRC 353 2018-02-07T21:33:18 *** Victorsueca has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 354 2018-02-07T21:34:57 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 355 2018-02-07T21:36:37 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 356 2018-02-07T21:38:03 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 357 2018-02-07T21:38:25 *** owowo has quit IRC 358 2018-02-07T21:44:41 *** CubicEarths has quit IRC 359 2018-02-07T21:57:35 *** Roben has quit IRC 360 2018-02-07T21:59:20 *** jojeyh has quit IRC 361 2018-02-07T22:00:02 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 362 2018-02-07T22:02:37 *** Roben has quit IRC 363 2018-02-07T22:03:53 *** Randolf has quit IRC 364 2018-02-07T22:04:07 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 365 2018-02-07T22:04:37 *** Roben has quit IRC 366 2018-02-07T22:13:51 *** Pavle has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 367 2018-02-07T22:13:51 *** sengehest has quit IRC 368 2018-02-07T22:17:52 *** dongcarl has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 369 2018-02-07T22:17:59 *** sipa has quit IRC 370 2018-02-07T22:17:59 *** sipa has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 371 2018-02-07T22:26:34 *** belcher has quit IRC 372 2018-02-07T22:33:44 *** jamesob has quit IRC 373 2018-02-07T22:34:35 *** belcher has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 374 2018-02-07T22:34:49 *** karenin has quit IRC 375 2018-02-07T22:38:31 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 376 2018-02-07T22:41:35 <cfields> dongcarl: what's the issue with gitian and newer LXC ? 377 2018-02-07T22:42:28 *** PaulCapestany has quit IRC 378 2018-02-07T22:42:46 <dongcarl> cfields: I'm just writing up something right now actually haha. 379 2018-02-07T22:42:59 <cfields> dongcarl: ah, ok 380 2018-02-07T22:43:05 <dongcarl> cfields: in a nutshell at the very least the config file has to be changed 381 2018-02-07T22:43:29 <dongcarl> cfields: I'm also getting a tty error for all lxc-execute commands 382 2018-02-07T22:43:36 <cfields> dongcarl: isn't the config written on-the-fly ? 383 2018-02-07T22:43:59 <dongcarl> yes, but they changed the key names in 2.1 384 2018-02-07T22:44:20 <dongcarl> kallewoof actually ran into the tty errors back in December 385 2018-02-07T22:44:33 *** Emcy_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 386 2018-02-07T22:44:43 <dongcarl> and through GitHub digging it seems like an upstream glib thing, but that could be wrong 387 2018-02-07T22:45:55 *** PaulCapestany has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 388 2018-02-07T22:46:05 <dongcarl> these issues are with LXC 2.1.1 right now, but I'm guessing non-rolling distros will move over to 2.1 soon 389 2018-02-07T22:46:17 <cfields> dongcarl: I assume you tried passing "-t" to ssh ? 390 2018-02-07T22:46:38 <dongcarl> cfields: I'm using LXC so there's no ssh, just lxc-execute 391 2018-02-07T22:47:10 *** Emcy has quit IRC 392 2018-02-07T22:47:19 <dongcarl> look in libexec/on-target:53 393 2018-02-07T22:47:28 *** Guyver2 has quit IRC 394 2018-02-07T22:47:48 <cfields> ah, right 395 2018-02-07T22:48:10 *** Roben has quit IRC 396 2018-02-07T22:48:23 <dongcarl> I'm looking through and it seems like some of the stuff hasn't been touched for quite a while 397 2018-02-07T22:48:32 <dongcarl> and most "touching" have been just workarounds 398 2018-02-07T22:48:37 <dongcarl> correct me if I'm wrong 399 2018-02-07T22:49:02 <cfields> gitian, you mean? 400 2018-02-07T22:49:09 <dongcarl> cfields: yes 401 2018-02-07T22:50:51 <cfields> dongcarl: sounds about right, i haven't looked lately though 402 2018-02-07T22:51:07 <dongcarl> cfields: gimme a bit, gunna dump a writeup in a sec 403 2018-02-07T22:51:08 <cfields> dongcarl: does passing -c to sh/bash help at all? 404 2018-02-07T22:51:10 <cfields> ok 405 2018-02-07T22:51:10 *** Randolf has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 406 2018-02-07T22:52:25 <dongcarl> cfields: sipa recommended that I talk to you about this. I've been looking into making 407 2018-02-07T22:52:28 <dongcarl> gitian more robust over the last few days and was wondering what you and others would t 408 2018-02-07T22:52:31 <dongcarl> hink of these possible changes. I refer to the container actually building the Bitcoin 409 2018-02-07T22:52:34 <dongcarl> binary as the "build container" and the host/container running the aforementioned conta 410 2018-02-07T22:52:37 <dongcarl> iner the "container host." 411 2018-02-07T22:52:40 * dongcarl shakes head at tmux 412 2018-02-07T22:53:07 <dongcarl> 1. Using vagrant to spin up a "container host" with a provisioner to spin up a "build container." This is similar to what is done for zcash (https://github.com/zcash/zcash-gitian). This solution has the advantage of not breaking existing builds and being easy to implement, but wastes cycles for containerization/virtualization. 413 2018-02-07T22:53:12 <dongcarl> 2. Replacing gitian's direct interfacing with LXC and KVM with vagrant. As in, let vagrant handle communicating with its provider (LXC, KVM, VirtualBox, VMWare, etc.), and gitian will interface with vagrant. This solution has the advantage of wasting less cycles, but it might break existing builds, and a slight annoyance is relying on third party repos to code up the integration between vagrant 414 2018-02-07T22:53:18 <dongcarl> and the provider of choice, but looking through the ones people would use (e.g. vagrant-lxc) it seems like they're well maintained. 415 2018-02-07T22:53:21 <dongcarl> 3. Same as #2 but have libvirt instead of vagrant. 416 2018-02-07T22:53:24 <dongcarl> sorry about that folks 417 2018-02-07T22:53:24 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2 | Long-term, safe, store-of-value Â· Issue #2 Â· bitcoin/bitcoin Â· GitHub 418 2018-02-07T22:55:29 *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC 419 2018-02-07T22:55:38 <cfields> dongcarl: it's worth mentioning up front that there are some other build changes in the works that simplify what gitian is responsible for 420 2018-02-07T22:57:04 <cfields> regardless, #2 sounds reasonable to me 421 2018-02-07T22:57:07 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2 | Long-term, safe, store-of-value Â· Issue #2 Â· bitcoin/bitcoin Â· GitHub 422 2018-02-07T22:57:58 <sipa> from what i hear, it sounds like we may end up relying on a pre-built image somehow 423 2018-02-07T22:58:45 <cfields> dongcarl: I'm working on a process that builds deterministic toolchain and rootfs for us to use. In theory, gitian isn't even necessary. But in practice, we'll need a very thin wrapper that just runs a script and gathers the results 424 2018-02-07T22:59:03 <sipa> cfields: how far along are you with that? 425 2018-02-07T22:59:09 <cfields> sipa: pre-built image? 426 2018-02-07T22:59:12 <sipa> i was assuming that may not happen overnight 427 2018-02-07T23:00:15 <cfields> sipa: I was on a roll for a while, but then got stuck working on static pie for gcc. I think I could have it up and going relatively quickly if it's holding up progress. 428 2018-02-07T23:00:40 <sipa> hmmm, static pie </homer> 429 2018-02-07T23:00:49 <cfields> haha 430 2018-02-07T23:01:19 <dongcarl> cfields: so sort of like what coreboot does? 431 2018-02-07T23:01:42 <sipa> cfields: am i right that this would mean we can build deterministic binaries just from depends make, without any vm? 432 2018-02-07T23:01:44 <cfields> I only mentioned the toolchain stuff because Mark mentioned reworking gitian a while back, and his plans would've conflicted 433 2018-02-07T23:02:15 <cfields> sipa: correct. The only variables are the running kernel and filesystem 434 2018-02-07T23:02:20 <cfields> dongcarl: I'm not familiar 435 2018-02-07T23:02:33 <sipa> cfields: what do you mean by variables? 436 2018-02-07T23:02:45 <cfields> sipa: sorry, sources of non-determinism 437 2018-02-07T23:02:56 <sipa> hmm, how so? 438 2018-02-07T23:03:04 <sipa> how does the filesystem matter? 439 2018-02-07T23:03:12 <sipa> order it lists files etc? 440 2018-02-07T23:03:15 <cfields> yup 441 2018-02-07T23:03:32 <cfields> I'm hoping to just slowly patch those things upstream as they arise 442 2018-02-07T23:04:15 <dongcarl> so we'll end up needing some sort of container to normalize that anyways? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should spend time on solution no. 2 right now... 443 2018-02-07T23:04:18 <sipa> well that sounds like a major improvement over what we have 444 2018-02-07T23:04:20 <cfields> gcc/binutils is in good shape these days. busybox is the one I'm unsure about 445 2018-02-07T23:05:03 <sipa> it would also let us pin a particular gcc version more easily, without depending on what's available in a particular build env 446 2018-02-07T23:05:06 <cfields> dongcarl: realistically yes, I think 447 2018-02-07T23:05:56 <arubi> cfields, you've seen landley's mkroot right? 448 2018-02-07T23:06:28 <cfields> sipa: yes, very much so. Our own config as well. the stupid mingw-w64 thread issue is a good example of how we're at the mercy of Ubuntu atm 449 2018-02-07T23:07:25 <sipa> cfields: do you have any idea about realistic timelines on the self-built compiler environment stuff? 450 2018-02-07T23:07:58 <cfields> sipa: just for using locally or for actually building releases? 451 2018-02-07T23:08:14 <dongcarl> actually building? 452 2018-02-07T23:08:27 <dongcarl> does sound cool 453 2018-02-07T23:08:39 <sipa> cfields: i'd say something in between, as in "actually usable for building releases if we wanted to" 454 2018-02-07T23:08:50 <sipa> even if we don't immediately decide to switch to it 455 2018-02-07T23:09:01 <cfields> sipa: .17 seems reasonable... 456 2018-02-07T23:09:45 <dongcarl> cfields: do you have a repo up somewhere where I can also take a look and contribute? 457 2018-02-07T23:09:53 <cfields> sipa: I think the biggest issue is that I'm targetting gcc 8.1, which hasn't even been released yet. And I'm sure we want to wait for some hardening 458 2018-02-07T23:10:46 <cfields> dongcarl: not atm, but I can push something up in a week or two 459 2018-02-07T23:11:20 <dongcarl> cfields: that would be fantastic, I'd love to help get it across the line in whatever way I can 460 2018-02-07T23:11:55 <cfields> dongcarl: great :) 461 2018-02-07T23:12:42 <cfields> dongcarl: thinking about it a bit, an abstraction around lxc/kvm/vbox/whatever is kinda just re-introducing the same non-determinism we're looking to avoid. 462 2018-02-07T23:13:16 <dongcarl> cfields: how so? 463 2018-02-07T23:13:37 *** mirese_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 464 2018-02-07T23:14:41 *** Roben has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 465 2018-02-07T23:15:58 <cfields> dongcarl: presumably they'd all have different methods for creating the target image, meaning that each may have (for ex) a separate filesystem 466 2018-02-07T23:16:11 <cfields> s/separate/differing/ 467 2018-02-07T23:16:24 <dongcarl> cfields: well, actually, for vagrant they share the same image! 468 2018-02-07T23:17:33 <sipa> cfields: gcc... 8? 469 2018-02-07T23:17:59 *** mirese has quit IRC 470 2018-02-07T23:18:01 <dongcarl> cfields: e.g. https://app.vagrantup.com/debian/boxes/jessie64/versions/8.7.0 471 2018-02-07T23:18:02 <cfields> dongcarl: sure, but they'll still virtualize things differently. lxc may hit a real disk for files, for ex 472 2018-02-07T23:18:07 <sipa> what in particular is in 8.1 that makes it attractive? 473 2018-02-07T23:18:11 <cfields> sipa: I'm upstreaming fixes 474 2018-02-07T23:18:24 <sipa> gotcha 475 2018-02-07T23:18:30 *** Roben has left #bitcoin-core-dev 476 2018-02-07T23:18:39 <dongcarl> cfields: makes sense 477 2018-02-07T23:18:52 <cfields> sipa: in particular, deterministic cross-libc bootstrap and static pie 478 2018-02-07T23:19:14 <cfields> dongcarl: I'm not saying it can't work. Obviously it works now, because gitian can use kvm or lxc... 479 2018-02-07T23:19:15 <sipa> but gcc 8 isn't even out yet? 480 2018-02-07T23:19:34 <cfields> dongcarl: I was just making the point that it's kinda a lateral move in that sense 481 2018-02-07T23:19:53 <cfields> sipa: heh, thank gcc's inane versioning scheme 482 2018-02-07T23:20:09 <cfields> sipa: 8.0 is beta, 8.1 is final. 483 2018-02-07T23:20:10 <dongcarl> cfields: right, and if we can finish this in .17, doesn't make sense to spend time on moving to that 484 2018-02-07T23:20:12 <sipa> i see 485 2018-02-07T23:20:22 <dongcarl> that = vagrant and no. 2 486 2018-02-07T23:20:45 <cfields> dongcarl: right 487 2018-02-07T23:21:17 *** Pavle has quit IRC 488 2018-02-07T23:21:20 * dongcarl is excited for cfield's code to be pushed up 489 2018-02-07T23:22:16 <cfields> dongcarl: basically, we're defining a reference system. We really can't get around that. So I'm apprehensive about attempts to abstract away the reference. 490 2018-02-07T23:22:35 <cfields> Again, I realize that's what gitian does now. 491 2018-02-07T23:22:51 *** Giszmo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 492 2018-02-07T23:23:27 <dongcarl> You're absolutely right. I think for my own building needs I'll just make my own version of no. 1 for now. Basically what's in the guides for virtualbox but with vagrant. Super easy to setup. 493 2018-02-07T23:27:06 <cfields> sounds good 494 2018-02-07T23:28:09 <cfields> dongcarl: what I'd be curious to see would be the thinnest possible wrapper on top of some vm. Just setup the cache, run the script, report the results 495 2018-02-07T23:28:55 *** quer has quit IRC 496 2018-02-07T23:29:02 <dongcarl> cfields: check out the linked zcash README 497 2018-02-07T23:29:06 *** larafale has quit IRC 498 2018-02-07T23:29:11 <dongcarl> https://github.com/zcash/zcash-gitian 499 2018-02-07T23:29:19 <dongcarl> uber-simple 500 2018-02-07T23:29:30 *** jojeyh has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 501 2018-02-07T23:29:46 *** larafale has joined #bitcoin-core-dev 502 2018-02-07T23:29:54 <dongcarl> (not a big fan of the number of build dependencies tho) 503 2018-02-07T23:30:40 *** Randolf has quit IRC 504 2018-02-07T23:30:54 <cfields> well ours will have no dependencies, so that's easy 505 2018-02-07T23:31:25 <dongcarl> woot woot 506 2018-02-07T23:31:59 <cfields> hmm 507 2018-02-07T23:32:52 <cfields> I guess using vagrant with some static config is no different from rolling our own, in terms of determinism 508 2018-02-07T23:33:31 <gmaxwell> gitian abstracting away the reference mostly is just introducing significant insecurity and pretending we don't need to worry about it. 509 2018-02-07T23:33:57 *** larafale has quit IRC 510 2018-02-07T23:34:57 <dongcarl> cfields: true, but vagrant references boxes by name, not hashes, and those boxes can be maliciously built. 511 2018-02-07T23:35:29 <dongcarl> cfields: what'd be nice is a script that builds the vagrant box (like gitian does with debootstrap) then launches it with a static config 512 2018-02-07T23:35:35 <dongcarl> gmaxwell: Agreed. 513 2018-02-07T23:36:22 <dongcarl> cfields: btw what did you mean by "rolling our own"? 514 2018-02-07T23:36:26 <cfields> dongcarl: can we not just use a generic ubuntu-minimal image ? 515 2018-02-07T23:37:27 <dongcarl> cfields: from ubuntu or from vagrant boxes? Vagrant has its own repository of pre-built boxes that are referred to by name that everyone uses. 516 2018-02-07T23:37:34 <cfields> (I've never used vagrant, though I assume it's not hugely different from the other similar vm builders/launchers) 517 2018-02-07T23:38:26 <dongcarl> so the "vagrant boxes" are supposed to just immediately spin up with no install process 518 2018-02-07T23:38:45 <cfields> gmaxwell: the insecurity being "trusting ubuntu", you mean? 519 2018-02-07T23:39:39 <cfields> dongcarl: by "rolling our own", I meant writing something like gitian 520 2018-02-07T23:40:20 <cfields> dongcarl: I see. Looks like I need to read up. 521 2018-02-07T23:40:39 <gmaxwell> cfields: right, and their ongoing updates. For users that already run ubuntu arguably there is not much increase in surface over what they already face, but that doesn't apply to people who run other things than ubuntu. 522 2018-02-07T23:41:17 <cfields> gmaxwell: sure, completely agree. Just wanted clarification. 523 2018-02-07T23:41:26 <gmaxwell> AFAIK we don't have any reason to think ubuntu's build process is particularly secure either, e.g. could be internet connected hosts that a hundred people have remote shell access on. 524 2018-02-07T23:41:55 <gmaxwell> And certantly whatever it is, it runs a lot of effectively unreviewed potentially malicious code. 525 2018-02-07T23:42:07 <dongcarl> cfields: yeah if we end up needing something to control the two variables you mentioned earlier, vagrant would probably work well with a fixed provider, static config, and building our own boxes instead of fetching from the repo. 526 2018-02-07T23:42:40 <dongcarl> gmaxwell: :-/ 527 2018-02-07T23:43:16 <gmaxwell> if or once we get to the point where our build process builds the same binaries when run from different systems at least we'll be able to crosscheck against something else, even if the standard build enviroment remains an ubuntu vm. 528 2018-02-07T23:44:54 *** AaronvanW has quit IRC 529 2018-02-07T23:44:55 <dongcarl> gmaxwell: "where our build process builds the same binaries when run from different systems" <- as in when cfields finishes the work on unVM'd deterministic builds? 530 2018-02-07T23:45:19 <gmaxwell> right. 531 2018-02-07T23:46:02 <gmaxwell> I think it's likely though that the standard process for that will still have people use a standard vm image... just because it'll be a baseline system that we know works. 532 2018-02-07T23:46:05 * dongcarl looks forward to the day when determinist builds work on FreeBSD 533 2018-02-07T23:47:13 <dongcarl> gmaxwell: yeah, we were talking about that earlier, kernel and filesystem are the two variables that are most easily controlled by VMs I guess. 534 2018-02-07T23:49:52 *** rex_4539 has quit IRC 535 2018-02-07T23:50:07 <cfields> gmaxwell: yes. So far I have a minimal rootfs that's capable of building bitcoin. It's basically just busybox/make/toolchain. Dealing with kernels is just too far out of scope, though. Ideally, we'd just boot some minimal image in a vm, chroot, and make 536 2018-02-07T23:50:37 <gmaxwell> cfields: are you finding that the kernel and whatnot breaks determinism 537 2018-02-07T23:50:38 <cfields> (that minimal rootfs build is deterministic and would first be built in gitian itself) 538 2018-02-07T23:51:32 <cfields> gmaxwell: no, I was just enumerating the issues at play. Almost all issues we've had have come from filesystem. 539 2018-02-07T23:51:43 <gmaxwell> ah good. 540 2018-02-07T23:53:23 <cfields> dongcarl: I should think that fbsd deterministic builds would come pretty close to working as-is 541 2018-02-07T23:54:10 <dongcarl> cfields: with virtualbox you mean? 542 2018-02-07T23:54:38 <cfields> dongcarl: cross build from linux with gitian 543 2018-02-07T23:55:09 <dongcarl> cfields: Oh. I mean, DOING deterministic builds from FreeBSD haha 544 2018-02-07T23:55:39 <cfields> oh. why? :) 545 2018-02-07T23:56:25 <dongcarl> cfields: Because... I'm a sadist who loves making things work on *BSD. 546 2018-02-07T23:56:44 <gmaxwell> (1) because some people run it, and (2) hey, distinct build enviroment is better for crosschecking determinism. 547 2018-02-07T23:56:58 <gmaxwell> But it's okay if people have to suffer to make it work. 548 2018-02-07T23:57:08 <dongcarl> let's pretend I thought of (2) there 549 2018-02-07T23:57:30 <dongcarl> next stop: plan 9 deterministic builds 550 2018-02-07T23:57:36 <dongcarl> then: seL4 551 2018-02-07T23:57:48 <gmaxwell> nah, build on AT&T unix on SIMH pdp11. :P 552 2018-02-07T23:58:17 <dongcarl> <3 553 2018-02-07T23:58:28 <cfields> sure, no complaints if someone wants to try 554 2018-02-07T23:59:16 <cfields> I plan to attempt the same for osx, but just because I want to see where the differences end up coming from 555 2018-02-07T23:59:29 *** Victorsueca has quit IRC 556 2018-02-07T23:59:33 <sipa> OS/2, please. 557 2018-02-07T23:59:42 <gmaxwell> it would be kinda interesting if the project there were at least two distinct project recommended base VMs, and people were told to use one based on hashing their name.