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 172018-03-15T00:50:25  <eklitzke> if you notice anyone on github opening issues about corrupted chainstate databases (i know this is a fairly common issue for people to open), direct them to #12690 and ask them to compile bitcoin with the new leveldb error log messages which are in master now
 182018-03-15T00:50:27  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12690 | LevelDB "corrupted compressed block contents" errors · Issue #12690 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 372018-03-15T01:19:04  <adiabat> not sure if this is a known bug: in the qt UI, the IBD window thing says "blocks left: unknown (syncing headers)"
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 392018-03-15T01:19:35  <adiabat> but it's not; it's downloading blocks according to debug.log.  Also the other fields in the UI seem fine and are updating
 402018-03-15T01:20:57  <adiabat> the bottom progress bar also says "syncing headers (99.9%)" but if I mouse-over the bar it pops up the actual height it's gotten to
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 452018-03-15T01:27:51  <adiabat> I clicked hide, then clicked the sync icon to bring it back up and it works normally, showing blocks left.  so whatever...
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 812018-03-15T02:31:03  <eklitzke> sipa: when you were doing the -fsanitize=address stuff, did you have to rebuild all of the libraries (boost, db4, etc.) with that flag enabled as well?
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 862018-03-15T02:34:10  <eklitzke> asking because when i enable it all of the autoconf tests for the third party libs fail
 872018-03-15T02:35:57  <luke-jr> eklitzke: at least one of the sanitizers is documented to require it
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 892018-03-15T02:37:24  <sipa> eklitzke: i believe not
 902018-03-15T02:37:49  <sipa> i think only one of the sanitizes needs it
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1092018-03-15T03:13:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke opened pull request #12692: Add configure options for various -fsanitize flags (master...sanitize) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12692
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1532018-03-15T05:49:55  <SWXRU2cjac> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
1542018-03-15T05:49:55  <SWXRU2cjac> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
1552018-03-15T05:49:55  <SWXRU2cjac> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
1562018-03-15T05:49:58  <SWXRU2cjac> pyericz Murch dafunkiz_ sanada justanotheruser kryptopraxis Victorsueca ProfMac_ lnostdal TheRec murrayn CubicEarths dabura667 jojeyh weez17 booyah rafalcpp byteideas ossifrage HFRadical owowo meshcollider contrapumpkin arbitrary_guy LeMiner nullptr| harrymm ken2812221 opdenkamp Megumiin adiabat BashCo_ Deacyde intcat vicenteH qrest Sinclair6 karelb unholymachine dermoth arowser Evel-Knievel sdaftuar jnewbery zivl arubi ghost43 mariorz BGL rya
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1582018-03-15T05:50:34  <jojeyh> wtf
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1712018-03-15T06:10:58  <dafunkiz_> ?
1722018-03-15T06:15:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] drewx2 opened pull request #12693: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock (master...unused-sort-for-block-param) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12693
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1782018-03-15T06:45:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #12694: Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs (master...fix-preset-coins-bnb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12694
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1812018-03-15T06:53:16  <achow101> eklitzke: I'll write a test for that later. It's 3 AM for me right now and I kinda want to sleep
1822018-03-15T06:55:09  <eklitzke> fair
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2312018-03-15T10:28:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof closed pull request #10386: [WIP] [wallet] Optional '-avoidreuse' flag which defaults to not reusing addresses in sends (master...feature-white-black-address) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10386
2322018-03-15T10:29:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof closed pull request #10585: [WIP] PoW connection slots (master...pow-connection-slots) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10585
2332018-03-15T10:30:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof closed pull request #10877: [rpc] Verbose flags for chaining and scripting (master...verbose-flagging) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10877
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2932018-03-15T12:20:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke opened pull request #12695: [build] Fix some strange behavior with --enable-debug (master...enabledebug) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12695
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3212018-03-15T14:19:39  <GAit> While doing some regtesting I've noticed that the mempool returned by getrawmempool is sometimes a subset of what I expect if core is processing a block while I ask, even if getbestblockhash returns the same blockhash prior and post getting the rawmempool. Is this known/expected behavior?
3222018-03-15T14:20:30  *** grafcaps has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3232018-03-15T14:21:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke opened pull request #12696: Fix possible data race when committing block files (master...fsync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12696
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3442018-03-15T16:06:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e057589dc67f...947c25ead21a
3452018-03-15T16:06:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 152b7fb James O'Beirne: [tests] Add a (failing) test for waitforblockheight...
3462018-03-15T16:06:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f98b543 James O'Beirne: Only call NotifyBlockTip when the active chain changes...
3472018-03-15T16:06:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 947c25e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12431: Only call NotifyBlockTip when chainActive changes...
3482018-03-15T16:07:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12431: Only call NotifyBlockTip when chainActive changes (master...jamesob/2018-02-prevent-bad-latestblock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12431
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3512018-03-15T16:20:14  <instagibbs> murchandamus, any notion on whether single random draw should prune after hitting it's required value?
3522018-03-15T16:21:23  <instagibbs> scan the list again, try to remove items and stay above thresh. I have a hunch that any gain of "more distributed" output values from pure draw are outweighed by spending an addition utxo *now*
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3632018-03-15T17:18:52  <promag> wumpus: on #12624 s/0.15/0.17?
3642018-03-15T17:18:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12624 | Release schedule for 0.17.0 · Issue #12624 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3652018-03-15T17:19:15  <wumpus> ?
3662018-03-15T17:19:27  <promag> in the issue description
3672018-03-15T17:19:42  <promag> "Finalize and close translations for 0.15"
3682018-03-15T17:19:46  <wumpus> that's correct
3692018-03-15T17:19:52  <promag> oh
3702018-03-15T17:20:11  <promag> ok sorry
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3722018-03-15T17:21:29  <instagibbs> how many hours/minutes until dev meeting? clock change in US...
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3742018-03-15T17:22:31  <sipa> instagibbs: 98
3752018-03-15T17:22:41  <wumpus> $ date -u -> Thu Mar 15 17:22:05 UTC 2018 -> 1 hour and 8 minutes
3762018-03-15T17:22:47  <wumpus> eh 38
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3812018-03-15T17:43:08  <instagibbs> Core wallet currently orders inputs based on the CInputCoin ordering, which orders in non-descending order via COutPoint... wouldn't it be better to shuffle for privacy?
3822018-03-15T17:43:13  <instagibbs> or are other wallets doing this as well
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3862018-03-15T17:53:34  <sipa> instagibbs: it doesn't shuffle? :o
3872018-03-15T17:54:03  <instagibbs> nope, it uses std::set which uses, I believe, the comparator of the underlying type
3882018-03-15T17:54:09  <instagibbs> based on my internetting
3892018-03-15T17:54:24  <instagibbs> either way it's definitely not shuffled
3902018-03-15T17:56:01  <Murch> instagibbs, sipa: Wouldn't it be fine if they were sorted by outpoint?
3912018-03-15T17:56:30  <instagibbs> Murch, I'm not particularly bothered, provided it's a standard thing wallets do. I assumed everything was shuffled
3922018-03-15T17:57:12  <Murch> The thing that you would want to obfuscate, is the order in which they were picked, or when they come from different wallets and such. If they'd all be ordered by the outpoint that would still be obfuscated
3932018-03-15T17:57:34  <instagibbs> it's saying "I'm a Core wallet!" unless others do it as well
3942018-03-15T17:57:52  <instagibbs> Slowly hoping we can stop announcing that so much :)
3952018-03-15T17:57:53  <gmaxwell> I'd rather it sorted by script pubkey.
3962018-03-15T17:58:08  <gmaxwell> (ignoring the consideration of distinguishability vs other software)
3972018-03-15T17:58:28  <GAit> please ignore my comment above re: bestblockhash and getrawmempool, looks like i got confused
3982018-03-15T17:58:31  <wumpus> instagibbs: as there is no common standard between wallets how to do those things, I suppose all software is pretty distinguishable
3992018-03-15T17:58:59  <gmaxwell> (the reason for scriptpubkey is that we came up with a compact encoding that is much smaller when spk's are reused in adjcent outputs)
4002018-03-15T17:59:50  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I would think that encoding would be detrimental since it encourages reuse
4012018-03-15T18:00:11  <instagibbs> luke-jr, doesn't make anything cheaper for wallet though
4022018-03-15T18:00:16  <luke-jr> at the very least, though, I'd think we should use a std::unordered_set
4032018-03-15T18:00:58  <luke-jr> instagibbs: not relevant; it encourages reuse because many people DO care about the health of the network
4042018-03-15T18:01:19  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it doesn't encourage it.
4052018-03-15T18:01:28  <gmaxwell> it's not like you pay lower fees due to it.
4062018-03-15T18:01:35  <instagibbs> luke-jr, nuking your own privacy is a larger negative :/
4072018-03-15T18:01:43  <instagibbs> imo
4082018-03-15T18:01:45  <luke-jr> instagibbs: hopefully
4092018-03-15T18:01:47  <instagibbs> own and others*
4102018-03-15T18:02:06  <luke-jr> instagibbs: but some people already do it, so apparently not a large enough negative
4112018-03-15T18:02:26  <luke-jr> there's no reason to optimise reuse; in the ideal situation, it does nothing useful; in the worse situation, it's harmful
4122018-03-15T18:02:26  <sipa> how does it encourage reuse?
4132018-03-15T18:02:28  *** gmaxwell has left #bitcoin-core-dev
4142018-03-15T18:02:34  <instagibbs> anyways, I'll open an issue, since I found it surprising
4152018-03-15T18:02:58  *** Randolf has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4162018-03-15T18:03:12  <Randolf> Hello.
4172018-03-15T18:03:25  <sipa> i think they should be randomly ordered
4182018-03-15T18:03:54  <sipa> we can't guess what other wallets are doing, but a random sort will at least sometimes be indistinguishable from others
4192018-03-15T18:04:03  <wumpus> yes, why not
4202018-03-15T18:04:36  <wumpus> there seems to be no reason to *not* randomly order inputs, at least with SIGHASH_ALL
4212018-03-15T18:04:48  <luke-jr> Randolf: hi (you're an hour early)
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4232018-03-15T18:04:56  <Randolf> I am?
4242018-03-15T18:05:03  <sipa> timezones are confusing
4252018-03-15T18:05:09  <Randolf> Oh, I'm in Pacific Time.
4262018-03-15T18:05:12  <sipa> the meeting is 8pm UTC
4272018-03-15T18:05:15  <luke-jr> everyone should switch to tonal time ;)
4282018-03-15T18:05:20  <sipa> or 7pm?
4292018-03-15T18:05:26  <wumpus> 7
4302018-03-15T18:05:38  <Randolf> I've heard that Decimal Time is quite good -- only 10 hours in a day, 100 minutes per hours, but the seconds are a bit strange.
4312018-03-15T18:05:54  <luke-jr> Randolf: that's pretty insane,  not good :P
4322018-03-15T18:06:01  <instagibbs> I can PR, it seems strictly better to shuffle imo, I've never heard of this COutPoint ordering used anywhere else
4332018-03-15T18:07:29  <wumpus> instagibbs: ok
4342018-03-15T18:08:51  <Murch> Randolf: If your calendar supports it, you can just set the event's time to the 7pm UTC, and it'll automatically fix weird shifts like that for you. ;)
4352018-03-15T18:09:15  <sipa> Protip: Iceland is always on UTC
4362018-03-15T18:09:32  <luke-jr> Murch: (and put the meeting overlapping with picking kids up at school, it seems)
4372018-03-15T18:09:38  <jcorgan> protip: if your calendar doesn't support UTC as a time zone, setting it to Iceland
4382018-03-15T18:09:49  *** arbitrary_guy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4392018-03-15T18:09:57  <jcorgan> heh
4402018-03-15T18:10:06  <sipa> !hi5 jcorgan
4412018-03-15T18:10:06  <luke-jr> sadly, Florida just voted to make DST permanent/year-round, so this is going to be a persistent issue for me :x
4422018-03-15T18:10:07  <gribble> Error: "hi5" is not a valid command.
4432018-03-15T18:10:20  <sipa> luke-jr: which apprently violates federal law
4442018-03-15T18:10:24  <Randolf> Murch:  Thanks.
4452018-03-15T18:10:25  <luke-jr> sipa: ⁈
4462018-03-15T18:10:31  <Murch> Getting rid of summertime would be great.
4472018-03-15T18:10:46  <jcorgan> getting rid of timezones would be great
4482018-03-15T18:10:52  <sipa> luke-jr: states apparently have a right to choose whether they adopt DST or not, but not what timezone they are in
4492018-03-15T18:11:10  <luke-jr> sipa: so how does choosing to adopt DST year-round violate federal law? :P
4502018-03-15T18:11:42  <CubicEarths> Obviously solution - Set the meeting for a block height :)
4512018-03-15T18:12:01  <luke-jr> CubicEarths: that would be a bit chaotic, but maybe fun for a few meetings
4522018-03-15T18:12:23  *** moneyball has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4532018-03-15T18:12:31  <luke-jr> (and probably super annoying after a few)
4542018-03-15T18:12:31  <jcorgan> miner incentives to delay or advance core mtgs :)
4552018-03-15T18:13:43  <luke-jr> perhaps I'll learn to go to school early with a laptop, and join the meeting from there ;)
4562018-03-15T18:14:46  <instagibbs> yes you creeping around the school parking lot with a laptop wont sound any alarms
4572018-03-15T18:14:52  <luke-jr> lol
4582018-03-15T18:15:22  <luke-jr> I'll need to get the wifi password from them first anyway
4592018-03-15T18:15:25  <wumpus> I wouldn't mind moving it an hour earlier or later, but whatever time is chosen it's probably inconvenient to someone, and for the people in aus/asia it won't help
4602018-03-15T18:16:26  <wumpus> CubicEarths: I guess that would be 'fair' for some definitions of fair, but hard to plan for :)
4612018-03-15T18:17:19  <luke-jr> if we had more eastern devs, it might be "fair" to just shift it by 8 hours every week
4622018-03-15T18:18:47  <wumpus> yes
4632018-03-15T18:18:56  <sipa> how about shifting by 7 hours every week? that would over long periods of time uniformly distribute meetings :)
4642018-03-15T18:19:07  <sipa> (no, not a serious suggestion)
4652018-03-15T18:20:21  *** dafunkiz_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4662018-03-15T18:20:59  <luke-jr> anyhow, topic for meeting hopefully we can cover in the first ~10 minutes: multiwallet GUI, finally getting it merged?
4672018-03-15T18:21:06  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: will you be here? XD
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4852018-03-15T18:51:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] instagibbs opened pull request #12699: Shuffle transaction inputs before returning from SelectCoins (master...shuffleinputs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12699
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4922018-03-15T19:00:16  <wumpus> meeting?
4932018-03-15T19:01:18  <provoostenator> hi
4942018-03-15T19:01:22  <wumpus> #startmeeting
4952018-03-15T19:01:22  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 15 19:01:22 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
4962018-03-15T19:01:22  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4972018-03-15T19:01:26  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
4982018-03-15T19:01:39  <meshcollider> eHi
4992018-03-15T19:01:43  <meshcollider> Hi*
5002018-03-15T19:01:43  <cfields> hi
5012018-03-15T19:01:49  *** Randolf has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5022018-03-15T19:01:58  <wumpus> any topics?
5032018-03-15T19:02:10  <wumpus> #topic high priority for review
5042018-03-15T19:02:18  <luke-jr> GUI multiwallet
5052018-03-15T19:02:26  <wumpus> only 5 things left: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
5062018-03-15T19:02:32  <achow101> hi
5072018-03-15T19:02:44  <luke-jr> wumpus: the wrong multiwallet PR is included in that :/
5082018-03-15T19:02:44  <wumpus> cfields should probably rebase the banman
5092018-03-15T19:03:00  <cfields> nobody rebases banman!
5102018-03-15T19:03:03  <Randolf> Hello.
5112018-03-15T19:03:03  <cfields> (will do)
5122018-03-15T19:03:04  <achow101> #12560 please
5132018-03-15T19:03:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12560 | [wallet][RPC] Set or generate a new HD seed by achow101 · Pull Request #12560 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5142018-03-15T19:03:20  <wumpus> cfields: was already afraid the banman wouldn't agree with that :)
5152018-03-15T19:03:37  <luke-jr> #11383
5162018-03-15T19:03:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11383 | Basic Multiwallet GUI support by luke-jr · Pull Request #11383 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5172018-03-15T19:03:42  <cfields> heh
5182018-03-15T19:03:52  <wumpus> chainhead: added
5192018-03-15T19:04:02  <wumpus> achow101: added, I mean, sorry chainhead
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5222018-03-15T19:04:26  <wumpus> as jonasschnelli isn't here, I don't think discussing multiwallet GUI makes much sense :/
5232018-03-15T19:04:31  <meshcollider> I'd like to see #12254 on there
5242018-03-15T19:04:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12254 | BIP 158: Compact Block Filters for Light Clients by jimpo · Pull Request #12254 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5252018-03-15T19:05:04  <promag> hi
5262018-03-15T19:05:10  <wumpus> ok
5272018-03-15T19:05:21  <luke-jr> wumpus: ok
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5292018-03-15T19:06:49  <kanzure> hi.
5302018-03-15T19:06:53  *** qrest has quit IRC
5312018-03-15T19:06:55  <wumpus> so apart from that, we have two PRs by BlueMatt on there
5322018-03-15T19:07:06  <BlueMatt> yea, those should be removed as they have not yet beedn rebased (I think)
5332018-03-15T19:07:13  <BlueMatt> also I dont recall how two ended up on there...thats clearly cheating
5342018-03-15T19:07:23  <kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/bitcoin-core-dev-tech/2018-03-07-priorities/
5352018-03-15T19:07:33  <wumpus> ok
5362018-03-15T19:08:06  <cfields> feel free to remove banman for being non-rebased as well. I'll try to get to it today/tomorrow, but I *think* that's in fitting with the discussion we had
5372018-03-15T19:08:31  <achow101> +1 on removing things that need rebasing
5382018-03-15T19:08:33  <wumpus> cfields: ok, done
5392018-03-15T19:08:56  <wumpus> can always be readded
5402018-03-15T19:09:11  <Randolf> I suspect that more people would do rebasing if the web-interface provided an option for that.
5412018-03-15T19:09:12  <wumpus> and yes, it's consistent and fair with BlueMatt
5422018-03-15T19:09:45  <wumpus> Randolf: not all rebases are trivial one-click affairs
5432018-03-15T19:09:53  <Randolf> That's true.
5442018-03-15T19:10:00  <wumpus> other topics?
5452018-03-15T19:10:12  <meshcollider> luke's multiwallet stuff
5462018-03-15T19:10:25  *** qrestlove has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5472018-03-15T19:10:25  <Randolf> There seems to be confusion about whether Lightning Network is supported in Bitcoin 0.16.
5482018-03-15T19:10:33  <sipa> ...
5492018-03-15T19:10:36  <BlueMatt> wut
5502018-03-15T19:10:43  <wumpus> I don't think discussing GUI multiwallet makes sense without jonasschnelli here, but if you really want to discuss it meshcollider we could
5512018-03-15T19:10:45  <sipa> there is no such thing as "Bitcoin 0.16"
5522018-03-15T19:11:00  <promag> I would like some feedback here https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12507#issuecomment-372367647
5532018-03-15T19:11:03  <Randolf> I meant v0.16.
5542018-03-15T19:11:03  <sipa> and if you mean Bitcoin Core, that has nothing to do with Lightning
5552018-03-15T19:11:07  <achow101> Randolf: from who?
5562018-03-15T19:11:07  <wumpus> lightning is 'supported' since segwit was activated
5572018-03-15T19:11:15  <meshcollider> wumpus: true I'm indifferent, I'd just like to see a decision be made lol
5582018-03-15T19:11:33  <Randolf> achow101:  Well, I see the question come up from time-to-time in the #bitcoin channel, and in other IRC channels there's disagreement about whether it's fully implemented or at all.
5592018-03-15T19:11:50  <BlueMatt> Randolf: please take this after the meeting
5602018-03-15T19:11:59  <Randolf> I'm thinking that it may be good to indicate it prominently on the bitcoin.org web site or a readme file clearly.
5612018-03-15T19:12:00  <Randolf> Okay.
5622018-03-15T19:12:10  <promag> regarding multiwallet gui, IMO both still have some things to fix
5632018-03-15T19:12:17  <provoostenator> I'd also like the multiwallet stuff to go forward, but does it get in the way of the RPC Interface stuff?
5642018-03-15T19:12:54  <promag> provoostenator: you mean #10740?
5652018-03-15T19:12:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10740 | [WIP] [wallet] dynamic loading/unloading of wallets by jnewbery · Pull Request #10740 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5662018-03-15T19:13:05  <wumpus> #topic Multiwallet GUI
5672018-03-15T19:13:07  <wumpus> ok
5682018-03-15T19:13:30  <luke-jr> promag: there's nothing left to fix in #11383; just needs a rebasing since a day or so ago
5692018-03-15T19:13:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11383 | Basic Multiwallet GUI support by luke-jr · Pull Request #11383 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5702018-03-15T19:14:03  <promag> luke-jr: receiving address and sending addresses dialogs should mention the wallet name in some place
5712018-03-15T19:14:10  <promag> in the title for instance
5722018-03-15T19:14:45  <luke-jr> I could add that, but it seems okay to wait for a later PR to add those, and would invalidate the ACKs already received :/
5732018-03-15T19:14:47  <promag> also test with -disablewallet, the wallet selection should be invisible?
5742018-03-15T19:15:55  <promag> luke-jr: well that also works, just saying that it could be more complete
5752018-03-15T19:16:05  *** arbitrary_guy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5762018-03-15T19:16:21  <luke-jr> yes, there is much room to improve on it; but I fear causing further delays
5772018-03-15T19:16:24  <provoostenator> promag: no I mean #10244
5782018-03-15T19:16:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10244 | Refactor: separate gui from wallet and node by ryanofsky · Pull Request #10244 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5792018-03-15T19:17:02  <wumpus> luke-jr: I agree, at some point, if it's an improvement we should merge it, it doesn't have to do every single thing people can think of
5802018-03-15T19:17:14  <provoostenator> luke-jr: and there's the issue of putting model state in UI elements, which makes future changes to the design needlessly hard
5812018-03-15T19:17:14  <promag> provoostenator: oh I still have to see that one
5822018-03-15T19:17:17  <wumpus> collaboration works better on the master branch
5832018-03-15T19:17:38  <wumpus> but jonasschnelli had some problems with your approach
5842018-03-15T19:18:10  <provoostenator> E.g. if I want to change the dropdown into a menu, I now need to figure out where to keep the wallet array. The other PR handles that more elegantly (but maybe it's worse in other ways, I can't tell).
5852018-03-15T19:18:37  <wumpus> provoostenator: agree
5862018-03-15T19:18:42  <promag> well the way I see both build on top of a weak support of multiwallets
5872018-03-15T19:18:51  <ryanofsky> fwiw, i haven't looked at jonas pr yet, but i think luke's approach is fine. if jonas has improvements, no reason they can't go in later
5882018-03-15T19:19:10  <promag> maybe we should focus also on #12587, adding signals etc
5892018-03-15T19:19:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12587 | Introduce g_wallet_manager, prepare for better dynamic wallet loading/unloading by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12587 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5902018-03-15T19:19:24  <luke-jr> wumpus: I don't think we can discuss that fairly without him, unfortunately
5912018-03-15T19:19:36  *** sneakerhax has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5922018-03-15T19:19:36  <promag> I also think we should consider something like #11402
5932018-03-15T19:19:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11402 | [wallet] Use shared pointer for wallet instances by promag · Pull Request #11402 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5942018-03-15T19:19:42  <wumpus> luke-jr: I agree, I think it's a bit single sided like this
5952018-03-15T19:20:04  <luke-jr> promag: yes, that's one plan I had for down the road
5962018-03-15T19:20:20  <luke-jr> promag: which is partly why it's important we use a CWalletRef instead of wallet name string ;)
5972018-03-15T19:21:15  <wumpus> any other topics?
5982018-03-15T19:21:46  <sipa> lunch?
5992018-03-15T19:21:51  <luke-jr> XD
6002018-03-15T19:21:56  <promag> dinner?
6012018-03-15T19:21:59  <instagibbs> coin selection next steps?
6022018-03-15T19:22:07  <wumpus> already had both lunch and dinner xD
6032018-03-15T19:22:11  <instagibbs> a few of us had discussions during coredev, we may want to socialize those ideas?
6042018-03-15T19:22:13  <Randolf> Just finished lunch.
6052018-03-15T19:22:19  <wumpus> #topic coin selection next steps
6062018-03-15T19:22:20  <jtimon> is it still breakfast if it's dinner time?
6072018-03-15T19:22:30  <luke-jr> kallewoof's stuff, or something else?
6082018-03-15T19:22:44  <sipa> breakfast is defined as the first meal after waking up; the time of day is irrelevant
6092018-03-15T19:23:09  <luke-jr> I gotta run :x  bbl
6102018-03-15T19:23:16  <wumpus> later luke-jr
6112018-03-15T19:23:20  <achow101> #12605
6122018-03-15T19:23:21  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12605 | High level road map for coin selection changes · Issue #12605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6132018-03-15T19:23:25  <instagibbs> so, Branch and Bound was merged(yay), which leaves us with what to do when we cannot find an exact match. Current strategy is to fallback to Single Random Draw as per murchandamus thesis
6142018-03-15T19:23:37  <instagibbs> with some *, if achow101 wants to continue
6152018-03-15T19:23:47  <achow101> *current plannned strategy is to use SRD
6162018-03-15T19:24:02  * Randolf notes that SRD means Single Random Draw
6172018-03-15T19:24:13  <instagibbs> morcos had any idea to only SRD on coins smaller than target, to slightly bias towards spending smaller coins, for utxo set reasons
6182018-03-15T19:24:35  <instagibbs> debate as to whether that is even necessary were had
6192018-03-15T19:24:51  *** blackjarvis has quit IRC
6202018-03-15T19:25:04  <instagibbs> pure SRD gives the wallet a nice distribution of utxos, which likely feeds to better BnB exact match rates
6212018-03-15T19:26:16  <instagibbs> that's... about it.
6222018-03-15T19:26:26  * jtimon wonders if that slight bias could hurt privacy somehow
6232018-03-15T19:26:43  <sipa> i think SRD may be a privacy issue too
6242018-03-15T19:26:49  <instagibbs> jtimon, might mark as Core, but right now we hoover tiny inputs
6252018-03-15T19:27:03  <instagibbs> sipa, versus what?
6262018-03-15T19:27:33  <sipa> ideally you end up with a strategy that is hard to distinguish from BnB
6272018-03-15T19:27:54  <jtimon> instagibbs: yeah, I'm not opposed to the idea in principle, just launching questions to the air to see what other people think
6282018-03-15T19:28:18  <jtimon> what was BnB?
6292018-03-15T19:28:46  <instagibbs> #10637
6302018-03-15T19:28:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10637 | Coin Selection with Murchs algorithm by achow101 · Pull Request #10637 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6312018-03-15T19:28:58  <meshcollider> BnB stands for Branch and bound
6322018-03-15T19:29:16  <sipa> instagibbs: if you have 80% of UTXO very close to 1 BTC, then SRD will be very likely to include such outputs, revealing something about your UTXO size distribution
6332018-03-15T19:29:18  <jtimon> thanks!
6342018-03-15T19:29:23  *** promag has quit IRC
6352018-03-15T19:29:46  *** SopaXorzTaker has quit IRC
6362018-03-15T19:29:54  <instagibbs> sipa, with a 1BTC target? As oppose to BnB?
6372018-03-15T19:30:01  <instagibbs> Maybe we can continue post-meeting...
6382018-03-15T19:30:03  <sipa> yeah
6392018-03-15T19:31:26  * instagibbs will continue post meeting
6402018-03-15T19:32:19  <wumpus> ok, anything else for the meeting?
6412018-03-15T19:33:01  <wumpus> #endmeeting
6422018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Mar 15 19:33:01 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
6432018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-15-19.01.html
6442018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-15-19.01.txt
6452018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-15-19.01.log.html
6462018-03-15T19:34:47  *** gwollon is now known as gwillen
6472018-03-15T19:35:40  <achow101> instagibbs: post meeting continue?
6482018-03-15T19:35:47  <instagibbs> yeah, formulating thoughts
6492018-03-15T19:36:11  <instagibbs> sipa, I see what you mean, but I don't think other strategies are much(any?) better
6502018-03-15T19:36:11  *** Victorsueca has quit IRC
6512018-03-15T19:36:23  <instagibbs> aside from quite advanced coin control
6522018-03-15T19:36:34  <sipa> Randolf: Lightning is implemented by software like c-lightning and lnd. Bitcoin is implemented by software like Bitcoin Core and btcd. They are otherwise unrelated.
6532018-03-15T19:37:09  <sipa> Particular implementations of lightning may or may not require you to run particular bitcoin implementations, but that depends heavily on what software is involved.
6542018-03-15T19:37:30  *** Victorsueca has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
6552018-03-15T19:37:35  *** Randolf has quit IRC
6562018-03-15T19:38:33  <meshcollider> e.g. lnd requires either core or btcd, c-lightning and eclair both requires core
6572018-03-15T19:39:18  <sipa> he left
6582018-03-15T19:39:27  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
6592018-03-15T19:39:57  *** Guest1754 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
6602018-03-15T19:40:40  <instagibbs> BnB dodges this issue I think by 1) not having change 2) "over fitting" to the exact target. Once we have change, we have to make decisions about how big that change should be. Right now it's 1 bitcent, and ends up with Core hoovering tiny inputs to hit that.
6612018-03-15T19:41:26  <Murch> sorry, I was at lunch.
6622018-03-15T19:42:03  *** promag has quit IRC
6632018-03-15T19:42:20  <Murch> BnB strictly only includes inputs smaller or equal than the target, so limiting SRD to inputs smaller than the target might make the input set more like a BnB one.
6642018-03-15T19:42:54  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
6652018-03-15T19:43:12  *** promag has quit IRC
6662018-03-15T19:43:48  <achow101> The fact that there will be change indicates that BnB wasn't used at all though
6672018-03-15T19:44:05  <achow101> so I don't think it really needs to look like BnB
6682018-03-15T19:44:08  <instagibbs> its more about revealing stuff about the rest of your utxo set
6692018-03-15T19:44:10  <sipa> well ideally the chabge isn't recognizable
6702018-03-15T19:44:21  <instagibbs> typically it will mean a single output
6712018-03-15T19:44:29  <sipa> but leaking BNB or not isn't as bad as leaking information about your utxo size distribution
6722018-03-15T19:44:49  <Murch> sipa: with random selection, change might be bigger or smaller than the sending output, isn't that good?
6732018-03-15T19:45:26  <sipa> there are so many aspects to privacy, it's hard :)
6742018-03-15T19:45:50  <instagibbs> if you can name a counter-proposal, it may help
6752018-03-15T19:46:05  <instagibbs> not putting on spot, for my own imagination
6762018-03-15T19:46:06  <Murch> Largest first would probably also work well in combination with BnB
6772018-03-15T19:46:12  <Murch> :p
6782018-03-15T19:46:16  <instagibbs> lol
6792018-03-15T19:46:37  <Murch> FIFO is pretty decent all around, might leak less information about composition, but more about time distribution
6802018-03-15T19:47:22  <sipa> i was wondering if you could do something like randomly adding change of a particular size, and then run BnB again
6812018-03-15T19:47:38  <instagibbs> sipa, me too, if you can engineer a target
6822018-03-15T19:47:38  <sipa> but there are so many design parameters, and risk becoming very slow
6832018-03-15T19:47:55  <Murch> Then we'd waste all the computational work to hit something that is actually arbitrary
6842018-03-15T19:47:58  <instagibbs> i think picking the "right" change size using expert rules is foolhardy unless we really know more
6852018-03-15T19:48:15  <sipa> agree
6862018-03-15T19:48:23  <Murch> instagibbs: I mean you could fill buckets of change sizes, to spread combination space for BnB
6872018-03-15T19:48:27  <sipa> Murch: yes, absolutely - though it could run with lower computational limits or so
6882018-03-15T19:48:40  <Murch> but that seems overly optimistic in regard to how well we understand the overall effect
6892018-03-15T19:48:44  *** moneyball has quit IRC
6902018-03-15T19:48:45  <instagibbs> Murch, wallet history to know targets, etc :)
6912018-03-15T19:49:02  <instagibbs> like, maybe Coinbase needs a 2 BTC utxo for daily payments, i dont!
6922018-03-15T19:49:15  <instagibbs> but again this leaks info if used
6932018-03-15T19:49:24  <instagibbs> ack on hard :(
6942018-03-15T19:49:37  <sipa> use change = your previous payment output amount :p
6952018-03-15T19:50:19  <Murch> sipa then you leak a connection to a previous tx
6962018-03-15T19:50:32  <sipa> oh. duh.
6972018-03-15T19:51:31  <Murch> It's been suggested to target the average amount of the last x spents from the wallet, to make sure the change is a useful size
6982018-03-15T19:51:41  <Murch> but then again we're reducing the UTXO pool's variance
6992018-03-15T19:51:48  <Murch> which is bad for the combination space of BnB
7002018-03-15T19:52:31  <Murch> so, yes, random leaks information about the distribution of the wallet's utxo pool, but only if you create a large transaction target in the first place
7012018-03-15T19:52:49  <Murch> otherwise the information is spread out over potentially unrelated tx in the first place
7022018-03-15T19:53:20  <Murch> and if you're creating a large transaction, you'd be leaking information about your wallet's utxo pool composition with most strategies
7032018-03-15T19:57:32  <instagibbs> sipa, i thought you were joking :P
7042018-03-15T19:58:35  <Murch> we could have multiple fallback algorithms that switch off. :p
7052018-03-15T19:58:49  <Murch> But that would be terrible to analyze
7062018-03-15T20:01:23  <Murch> Largest first smaller than the target might actually also be an option.
7072018-03-15T20:02:08  <achow101> Murch: sipa: btw started doing SRD here: https://github.com/achow101/bitcoin/tree/srd-fallback
7082018-03-15T20:03:19  <Murch> achow101: I've been thinking. We might want to do SRD first, since it is computationally much cheaper than BnB, and then use the waste result of the SRD as an upper bound for BnB.
7092018-03-15T20:03:29  <Murch> only switch to the BnB result if it has less waste.
7102018-03-15T20:04:51  <achow101> Murch: i don't think that it is likely for SRD to find a result that has less waste than BnB. Furthermore, that would mean we do both SRD and BnB for every selection
7112018-03-15T20:05:20  <Murch> Yeah, but shuffle pick from front is super cheap.
7122018-03-15T20:05:44  <Murch> *"Yeah, but shuffle, then pick from front is super cheap."
7132018-03-15T20:05:46  <instagibbs> BnB being preferred has the nice property that it ends transaction chaining in the wallet for good
7142018-03-15T20:06:01  <Murch> mhkay, just an idea
7152018-03-15T20:06:12  <instagibbs> not saying it's a bad idea, just saying it was one considering iirc
7162018-03-15T20:07:07  *** rex_4539 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
7172018-03-15T20:07:45  <Murch> In the end it's always a question of tradeoffs. Do you want to minimize costs, maximize privacy, minimize UTXO pool, …, or some mix thereoff. ;)
7182018-03-15T20:10:07  <instagibbs> code complexity, transaction chaining limits...
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7252018-03-15T20:41:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #12700: Document RPC method aliasing (master...pr/alias) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12700
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7322018-03-15T21:02:10  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
7332018-03-15T21:05:51  <Murch> yeah
7342018-03-15T21:05:55  *** promag has quit IRC
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7362018-03-15T21:07:09  <Murch> instagibbs: I think that SRD or FIFO would probably be a contender for decent mix of tradeoffs, and would use one of those as a baseline to compare against. But then suggest that we compare with concrete other proposals.
7372018-03-15T21:09:16  <sipa> Murch: i wonder if a good strategy (perhaps only when the utxo set is large) is use a pre filtering that trims the UTXO set down, biasing in favor of amounts that are further away from other amounts
7382018-03-15T21:09:56  <Murch> That would definitely help BnB, and also spread out selection for SRD. Isn't that computationally intensive, though?
7392018-03-15T21:10:03  *** Krellan has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
7402018-03-15T21:10:17  <sipa> why would it?
7412018-03-15T21:10:28  <sipa> it seems like it can be done with a single pass
7422018-03-15T21:10:49  <Murch> How would you do it? Logarithmic bucketing?
7432018-03-15T21:11:35  <sipa> i'll think about it
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7702018-03-15T22:40:12  <promag> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12650#issuecomment-373538129 wut
7712018-03-15T22:42:56  <sipa> yeah...
7722018-03-15T22:43:06  <sipa> i think i can guess what you're linking to
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7742018-03-15T22:46:16  *** Giszmo has quit IRC
7752018-03-15T22:50:32  <meshcollider> Looks like spam, it's nonsense
7762018-03-15T22:52:17  *** Guest1754 has quit IRC
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7782018-03-15T23:01:24  *** qu4ku has quit IRC
7792018-03-15T23:07:33  <luke-jr> looks like it wants to be human :x
7802018-03-15T23:08:32  <sipa> i think it may be human
7812018-03-15T23:08:44  <midnightmagic> that's charitable
7822018-03-15T23:18:44  *** Murch has quit IRC
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7852018-03-15T23:31:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/947c25ead21a...df529dcc65e8
7862018-03-15T23:31:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bb079a0 Drew Rasmussen: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock
7872018-03-15T23:31:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master df529dc Pieter Wuille: Merge #12693: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock...
7882018-03-15T23:32:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #12693: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock (master...unused-sort-for-block-param) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12693
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7922018-03-15T23:38:07  <promag> sipa: don't stop there, here is another :P #12621
7932018-03-15T23:38:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12621 | Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions by promag · Pull Request #12621 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7942018-03-15T23:45:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/df529dcc65e8...2bac3e484114
7952018-03-15T23:45:32  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1ee72a8 João Barbosa: qt: Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions
7962018-03-15T23:45:32  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2bac3e4 Pieter Wuille: Merge #12621: Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions...
7972018-03-15T23:46:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #12621: Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions (master...2018-03-transaction-filter-avoid-querying) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12621
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8042018-03-15T23:58:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2bac3e484114...7be9a9a570c1
8052018-03-15T23:58:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2761bca Pieter Wuille: Merge READWRITEMANY into READWRITE
8062018-03-15T23:58:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 172f5fa Pieter Wuille: Support deserializing into temporaries...
8072018-03-15T23:58:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7be9a9a Pieter Wuille: Merge #12683: Fix more constness violations in serialization code...
8082018-03-15T23:59:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #12683: Fix more constness violations in serialization code (master...201803_moreser) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12683