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 17 2018-03-15T00:50:25  <eklitzke> if you notice anyone on github opening issues about corrupted chainstate databases (i know this is a fairly common issue for people to open), direct them to #12690 and ask them to compile bitcoin with the new leveldb error log messages which are in master now
 18 2018-03-15T00:50:27  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12690 | LevelDB "corrupted compressed block contents" errors · Issue #12690 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 37 2018-03-15T01:19:04  <adiabat> not sure if this is a known bug: in the qt UI, the IBD window thing says "blocks left: unknown (syncing headers)"
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 39 2018-03-15T01:19:35  <adiabat> but it's not; it's downloading blocks according to debug.log.  Also the other fields in the UI seem fine and are updating
 40 2018-03-15T01:20:57  <adiabat> the bottom progress bar also says "syncing headers (99.9%)" but if I mouse-over the bar it pops up the actual height it's gotten to
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 45 2018-03-15T01:27:51  <adiabat> I clicked hide, then clicked the sync icon to bring it back up and it works normally, showing blocks left.  so whatever...
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 81 2018-03-15T02:31:03  <eklitzke> sipa: when you were doing the -fsanitize=address stuff, did you have to rebuild all of the libraries (boost, db4, etc.) with that flag enabled as well?
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 86 2018-03-15T02:34:10  <eklitzke> asking because when i enable it all of the autoconf tests for the third party libs fail
 87 2018-03-15T02:35:57  <luke-jr> eklitzke: at least one of the sanitizers is documented to require it
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 89 2018-03-15T02:37:24  <sipa> eklitzke: i believe not
 90 2018-03-15T02:37:49  <sipa> i think only one of the sanitizes needs it
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109 2018-03-15T03:13:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke opened pull request #12692: Add configure options for various -fsanitize flags (master...sanitize) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12692
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153 2018-03-15T05:49:55  <SWXRU2cjac> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
154 2018-03-15T05:49:55  <SWXRU2cjac> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
155 2018-03-15T05:49:55  <SWXRU2cjac> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
156 2018-03-15T05:49:58  <SWXRU2cjac> pyericz Murch dafunkiz_ sanada justanotheruser kryptopraxis Victorsueca ProfMac_ lnostdal TheRec murrayn CubicEarths dabura667 jojeyh weez17 booyah rafalcpp byteideas ossifrage HFRadical owowo meshcollider contrapumpkin arbitrary_guy LeMiner nullptr| harrymm ken2812221 opdenkamp Megumiin adiabat BashCo_ Deacyde intcat vicenteH qrest Sinclair6 karelb unholymachine dermoth arowser Evel-Knievel sdaftuar jnewbery zivl arubi ghost43 mariorz BGL rya
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158 2018-03-15T05:50:34  <jojeyh> wtf
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171 2018-03-15T06:10:58  <dafunkiz_> ?
172 2018-03-15T06:15:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] drewx2 opened pull request #12693: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock (master...unused-sort-for-block-param) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12693
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178 2018-03-15T06:45:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #12694: Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs (master...fix-preset-coins-bnb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12694
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181 2018-03-15T06:53:16  <achow101> eklitzke: I'll write a test for that later. It's 3 AM for me right now and I kinda want to sleep
182 2018-03-15T06:55:09  <eklitzke> fair
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231 2018-03-15T10:28:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof closed pull request #10386: [WIP] [wallet] Optional '-avoidreuse' flag which defaults to not reusing addresses in sends (master...feature-white-black-address) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10386
232 2018-03-15T10:29:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof closed pull request #10585: [WIP] PoW connection slots (master...pow-connection-slots) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10585
233 2018-03-15T10:30:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof closed pull request #10877: [rpc] Verbose flags for chaining and scripting (master...verbose-flagging) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10877
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293 2018-03-15T12:20:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke opened pull request #12695: [build] Fix some strange behavior with --enable-debug (master...enabledebug) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12695
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321 2018-03-15T14:19:39  <GAit> While doing some regtesting I've noticed that the mempool returned by getrawmempool is sometimes a subset of what I expect if core is processing a block while I ask, even if getbestblockhash returns the same blockhash prior and post getting the rawmempool. Is this known/expected behavior?
322 2018-03-15T14:20:30  *** grafcaps has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
323 2018-03-15T14:21:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke opened pull request #12696: Fix possible data race when committing block files (master...fsync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12696
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344 2018-03-15T16:06:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e057589dc67f...947c25ead21a
345 2018-03-15T16:06:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 152b7fb James O'Beirne: [tests] Add a (failing) test for waitforblockheight...
346 2018-03-15T16:06:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f98b543 James O'Beirne: Only call NotifyBlockTip when the active chain changes...
347 2018-03-15T16:06:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 947c25e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12431: Only call NotifyBlockTip when chainActive changes...
348 2018-03-15T16:07:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12431: Only call NotifyBlockTip when chainActive changes (master...jamesob/2018-02-prevent-bad-latestblock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12431
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351 2018-03-15T16:20:14  <instagibbs> murchandamus, any notion on whether single random draw should prune after hitting it's required value?
352 2018-03-15T16:21:23  <instagibbs> scan the list again, try to remove items and stay above thresh. I have a hunch that any gain of "more distributed" output values from pure draw are outweighed by spending an addition utxo *now*
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363 2018-03-15T17:18:52  <promag> wumpus: on #12624 s/0.15/0.17?
364 2018-03-15T17:18:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12624 | Release schedule for 0.17.0 · Issue #12624 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
365 2018-03-15T17:19:15  <wumpus> ?
366 2018-03-15T17:19:27  <promag> in the issue description
367 2018-03-15T17:19:42  <promag> "Finalize and close translations for 0.15"
368 2018-03-15T17:19:46  <wumpus> that's correct
369 2018-03-15T17:19:52  <promag> oh
370 2018-03-15T17:20:11  <promag> ok sorry
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372 2018-03-15T17:21:29  <instagibbs> how many hours/minutes until dev meeting? clock change in US...
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374 2018-03-15T17:22:31  <sipa> instagibbs: 98
375 2018-03-15T17:22:41  <wumpus> $ date -u -> Thu Mar 15 17:22:05 UTC 2018 -> 1 hour and 8 minutes
376 2018-03-15T17:22:47  <wumpus> eh 38
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381 2018-03-15T17:43:08  <instagibbs> Core wallet currently orders inputs based on the CInputCoin ordering, which orders in non-descending order via COutPoint... wouldn't it be better to shuffle for privacy?
382 2018-03-15T17:43:13  <instagibbs> or are other wallets doing this as well
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386 2018-03-15T17:53:34  <sipa> instagibbs: it doesn't shuffle? :o
387 2018-03-15T17:54:03  <instagibbs> nope, it uses std::set which uses, I believe, the comparator of the underlying type
388 2018-03-15T17:54:09  <instagibbs> based on my internetting
389 2018-03-15T17:54:24  <instagibbs> either way it's definitely not shuffled
390 2018-03-15T17:56:01  <Murch> instagibbs, sipa: Wouldn't it be fine if they were sorted by outpoint?
391 2018-03-15T17:56:30  <instagibbs> Murch, I'm not particularly bothered, provided it's a standard thing wallets do. I assumed everything was shuffled
392 2018-03-15T17:57:12  <Murch> The thing that you would want to obfuscate, is the order in which they were picked, or when they come from different wallets and such. If they'd all be ordered by the outpoint that would still be obfuscated
393 2018-03-15T17:57:34  <instagibbs> it's saying "I'm a Core wallet!" unless others do it as well
394 2018-03-15T17:57:52  <instagibbs> Slowly hoping we can stop announcing that so much :)
395 2018-03-15T17:57:53  <gmaxwell> I'd rather it sorted by script pubkey.
396 2018-03-15T17:58:08  <gmaxwell> (ignoring the consideration of distinguishability vs other software)
397 2018-03-15T17:58:28  <GAit> please ignore my comment above re: bestblockhash and getrawmempool, looks like i got confused
398 2018-03-15T17:58:31  <wumpus> instagibbs: as there is no common standard between wallets how to do those things, I suppose all software is pretty distinguishable
399 2018-03-15T17:58:59  <gmaxwell> (the reason for scriptpubkey is that we came up with a compact encoding that is much smaller when spk's are reused in adjcent outputs)
400 2018-03-15T17:59:50  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I would think that encoding would be detrimental since it encourages reuse
401 2018-03-15T18:00:11  <instagibbs> luke-jr, doesn't make anything cheaper for wallet though
402 2018-03-15T18:00:16  <luke-jr> at the very least, though, I'd think we should use a std::unordered_set
403 2018-03-15T18:00:58  <luke-jr> instagibbs: not relevant; it encourages reuse because many people DO care about the health of the network
404 2018-03-15T18:01:19  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it doesn't encourage it.
405 2018-03-15T18:01:28  <gmaxwell> it's not like you pay lower fees due to it.
406 2018-03-15T18:01:35  <instagibbs> luke-jr, nuking your own privacy is a larger negative :/
407 2018-03-15T18:01:43  <instagibbs> imo
408 2018-03-15T18:01:45  <luke-jr> instagibbs: hopefully
409 2018-03-15T18:01:47  <instagibbs> own and others*
410 2018-03-15T18:02:06  <luke-jr> instagibbs: but some people already do it, so apparently not a large enough negative
411 2018-03-15T18:02:26  <luke-jr> there's no reason to optimise reuse; in the ideal situation, it does nothing useful; in the worse situation, it's harmful
412 2018-03-15T18:02:26  <sipa> how does it encourage reuse?
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414 2018-03-15T18:02:34  <instagibbs> anyways, I'll open an issue, since I found it surprising
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416 2018-03-15T18:03:12  <Randolf> Hello.
417 2018-03-15T18:03:25  <sipa> i think they should be randomly ordered
418 2018-03-15T18:03:54  <sipa> we can't guess what other wallets are doing, but a random sort will at least sometimes be indistinguishable from others
419 2018-03-15T18:04:03  <wumpus> yes, why not
420 2018-03-15T18:04:36  <wumpus> there seems to be no reason to *not* randomly order inputs, at least with SIGHASH_ALL
421 2018-03-15T18:04:48  <luke-jr> Randolf: hi (you're an hour early)
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423 2018-03-15T18:04:56  <Randolf> I am?
424 2018-03-15T18:05:03  <sipa> timezones are confusing
425 2018-03-15T18:05:09  <Randolf> Oh, I'm in Pacific Time.
426 2018-03-15T18:05:12  <sipa> the meeting is 8pm UTC
427 2018-03-15T18:05:15  <luke-jr> everyone should switch to tonal time ;)
428 2018-03-15T18:05:20  <sipa> or 7pm?
429 2018-03-15T18:05:26  <wumpus> 7
430 2018-03-15T18:05:38  <Randolf> I've heard that Decimal Time is quite good -- only 10 hours in a day, 100 minutes per hours, but the seconds are a bit strange.
431 2018-03-15T18:05:54  <luke-jr> Randolf: that's pretty insane,  not good :P
432 2018-03-15T18:06:01  <instagibbs> I can PR, it seems strictly better to shuffle imo, I've never heard of this COutPoint ordering used anywhere else
433 2018-03-15T18:07:29  <wumpus> instagibbs: ok
434 2018-03-15T18:08:51  <Murch> Randolf: If your calendar supports it, you can just set the event's time to the 7pm UTC, and it'll automatically fix weird shifts like that for you. ;)
435 2018-03-15T18:09:15  <sipa> Protip: Iceland is always on UTC
436 2018-03-15T18:09:32  <luke-jr> Murch: (and put the meeting overlapping with picking kids up at school, it seems)
437 2018-03-15T18:09:38  <jcorgan> protip: if your calendar doesn't support UTC as a time zone, setting it to Iceland
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439 2018-03-15T18:09:57  <jcorgan> heh
440 2018-03-15T18:10:06  <sipa> !hi5 jcorgan
441 2018-03-15T18:10:06  <luke-jr> sadly, Florida just voted to make DST permanent/year-round, so this is going to be a persistent issue for me :x
442 2018-03-15T18:10:07  <gribble> Error: "hi5" is not a valid command.
443 2018-03-15T18:10:20  <sipa> luke-jr: which apprently violates federal law
444 2018-03-15T18:10:24  <Randolf> Murch:  Thanks.
445 2018-03-15T18:10:25  <luke-jr> sipa: ⁈
446 2018-03-15T18:10:31  <Murch> Getting rid of summertime would be great.
447 2018-03-15T18:10:46  <jcorgan> getting rid of timezones would be great
448 2018-03-15T18:10:52  <sipa> luke-jr: states apparently have a right to choose whether they adopt DST or not, but not what timezone they are in
449 2018-03-15T18:11:10  <luke-jr> sipa: so how does choosing to adopt DST year-round violate federal law? :P
450 2018-03-15T18:11:42  <CubicEarths> Obviously solution - Set the meeting for a block height :)
451 2018-03-15T18:12:01  <luke-jr> CubicEarths: that would be a bit chaotic, but maybe fun for a few meetings
452 2018-03-15T18:12:23  *** moneyball has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
453 2018-03-15T18:12:31  <luke-jr> (and probably super annoying after a few)
454 2018-03-15T18:12:31  <jcorgan> miner incentives to delay or advance core mtgs :)
455 2018-03-15T18:13:43  <luke-jr> perhaps I'll learn to go to school early with a laptop, and join the meeting from there ;)
456 2018-03-15T18:14:46  <instagibbs> yes you creeping around the school parking lot with a laptop wont sound any alarms
457 2018-03-15T18:14:52  <luke-jr> lol
458 2018-03-15T18:15:22  <luke-jr> I'll need to get the wifi password from them first anyway
459 2018-03-15T18:15:25  <wumpus> I wouldn't mind moving it an hour earlier or later, but whatever time is chosen it's probably inconvenient to someone, and for the people in aus/asia it won't help
460 2018-03-15T18:16:26  <wumpus> CubicEarths: I guess that would be 'fair' for some definitions of fair, but hard to plan for :)
461 2018-03-15T18:17:19  <luke-jr> if we had more eastern devs, it might be "fair" to just shift it by 8 hours every week
462 2018-03-15T18:18:47  <wumpus> yes
463 2018-03-15T18:18:56  <sipa> how about shifting by 7 hours every week? that would over long periods of time uniformly distribute meetings :)
464 2018-03-15T18:19:07  <sipa> (no, not a serious suggestion)
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466 2018-03-15T18:20:59  <luke-jr> anyhow, topic for meeting hopefully we can cover in the first ~10 minutes: multiwallet GUI, finally getting it merged?
467 2018-03-15T18:21:06  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: will you be here? XD
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485 2018-03-15T18:51:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] instagibbs opened pull request #12699: Shuffle transaction inputs before returning from SelectCoins (master...shuffleinputs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12699
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492 2018-03-15T19:00:16  <wumpus> meeting?
493 2018-03-15T19:01:18  <provoostenator> hi
494 2018-03-15T19:01:22  <wumpus> #startmeeting
495 2018-03-15T19:01:22  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 15 19:01:22 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
496 2018-03-15T19:01:22  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
497 2018-03-15T19:01:26  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
498 2018-03-15T19:01:39  <meshcollider> eHi
499 2018-03-15T19:01:43  <meshcollider> Hi*
500 2018-03-15T19:01:43  <cfields> hi
501 2018-03-15T19:01:49  *** Randolf has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
502 2018-03-15T19:01:58  <wumpus> any topics?
503 2018-03-15T19:02:10  <wumpus> #topic high priority for review
504 2018-03-15T19:02:18  <luke-jr> GUI multiwallet
505 2018-03-15T19:02:26  <wumpus> only 5 things left: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
506 2018-03-15T19:02:32  <achow101> hi
507 2018-03-15T19:02:44  <luke-jr> wumpus: the wrong multiwallet PR is included in that :/
508 2018-03-15T19:02:44  <wumpus> cfields should probably rebase the banman
509 2018-03-15T19:03:00  <cfields> nobody rebases banman!
510 2018-03-15T19:03:03  <Randolf> Hello.
511 2018-03-15T19:03:03  <cfields> (will do)
512 2018-03-15T19:03:04  <achow101> #12560 please
513 2018-03-15T19:03:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12560 | [wallet][RPC] Set or generate a new HD seed by achow101 · Pull Request #12560 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
514 2018-03-15T19:03:20  <wumpus> cfields: was already afraid the banman wouldn't agree with that :)
515 2018-03-15T19:03:37  <luke-jr> #11383
516 2018-03-15T19:03:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11383 | Basic Multiwallet GUI support by luke-jr · Pull Request #11383 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
517 2018-03-15T19:03:42  <cfields> heh
518 2018-03-15T19:03:52  <wumpus> chainhead: added
519 2018-03-15T19:04:02  <wumpus> achow101: added, I mean, sorry chainhead
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522 2018-03-15T19:04:26  <wumpus> as jonasschnelli isn't here, I don't think discussing multiwallet GUI makes much sense :/
523 2018-03-15T19:04:31  <meshcollider> I'd like to see #12254 on there
524 2018-03-15T19:04:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12254 | BIP 158: Compact Block Filters for Light Clients by jimpo · Pull Request #12254 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
525 2018-03-15T19:05:04  <promag> hi
526 2018-03-15T19:05:10  <wumpus> ok
527 2018-03-15T19:05:21  <luke-jr> wumpus: ok
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529 2018-03-15T19:06:49  <kanzure> hi.
530 2018-03-15T19:06:53  *** qrest has quit IRC
531 2018-03-15T19:06:55  <wumpus> so apart from that, we have two PRs by BlueMatt on there
532 2018-03-15T19:07:06  <BlueMatt> yea, those should be removed as they have not yet beedn rebased (I think)
533 2018-03-15T19:07:13  <BlueMatt> also I dont recall how two ended up on there...thats clearly cheating
534 2018-03-15T19:07:23  <kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/bitcoin-core-dev-tech/2018-03-07-priorities/
535 2018-03-15T19:07:33  <wumpus> ok
536 2018-03-15T19:08:06  <cfields> feel free to remove banman for being non-rebased as well. I'll try to get to it today/tomorrow, but I *think* that's in fitting with the discussion we had
537 2018-03-15T19:08:31  <achow101> +1 on removing things that need rebasing
538 2018-03-15T19:08:33  <wumpus> cfields: ok, done
539 2018-03-15T19:08:56  <wumpus> can always be readded
540 2018-03-15T19:09:11  <Randolf> I suspect that more people would do rebasing if the web-interface provided an option for that.
541 2018-03-15T19:09:12  <wumpus> and yes, it's consistent and fair with BlueMatt
542 2018-03-15T19:09:45  <wumpus> Randolf: not all rebases are trivial one-click affairs
543 2018-03-15T19:09:53  <Randolf> That's true.
544 2018-03-15T19:10:00  <wumpus> other topics?
545 2018-03-15T19:10:12  <meshcollider> luke's multiwallet stuff
546 2018-03-15T19:10:25  *** qrestlove has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
547 2018-03-15T19:10:25  <Randolf> There seems to be confusion about whether Lightning Network is supported in Bitcoin 0.16.
548 2018-03-15T19:10:33  <sipa> ...
549 2018-03-15T19:10:36  <BlueMatt> wut
550 2018-03-15T19:10:43  <wumpus> I don't think discussing GUI multiwallet makes sense without jonasschnelli here, but if you really want to discuss it meshcollider we could
551 2018-03-15T19:10:45  <sipa> there is no such thing as "Bitcoin 0.16"
552 2018-03-15T19:11:00  <promag> I would like some feedback here https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12507#issuecomment-372367647
553 2018-03-15T19:11:03  <Randolf> I meant v0.16.
554 2018-03-15T19:11:03  <sipa> and if you mean Bitcoin Core, that has nothing to do with Lightning
555 2018-03-15T19:11:07  <achow101> Randolf: from who?
556 2018-03-15T19:11:07  <wumpus> lightning is 'supported' since segwit was activated
557 2018-03-15T19:11:15  <meshcollider> wumpus: true I'm indifferent, I'd just like to see a decision be made lol
558 2018-03-15T19:11:33  <Randolf> achow101:  Well, I see the question come up from time-to-time in the #bitcoin channel, and in other IRC channels there's disagreement about whether it's fully implemented or at all.
559 2018-03-15T19:11:50  <BlueMatt> Randolf: please take this after the meeting
560 2018-03-15T19:11:59  <Randolf> I'm thinking that it may be good to indicate it prominently on the bitcoin.org web site or a readme file clearly.
561 2018-03-15T19:12:00  <Randolf> Okay.
562 2018-03-15T19:12:10  <promag> regarding multiwallet gui, IMO both still have some things to fix
563 2018-03-15T19:12:17  <provoostenator> I'd also like the multiwallet stuff to go forward, but does it get in the way of the RPC Interface stuff?
564 2018-03-15T19:12:54  <promag> provoostenator: you mean #10740?
565 2018-03-15T19:12:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10740 | [WIP] [wallet] dynamic loading/unloading of wallets by jnewbery · Pull Request #10740 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
566 2018-03-15T19:13:05  <wumpus> #topic Multiwallet GUI
567 2018-03-15T19:13:07  <wumpus> ok
568 2018-03-15T19:13:30  <luke-jr> promag: there's nothing left to fix in #11383; just needs a rebasing since a day or so ago
569 2018-03-15T19:13:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11383 | Basic Multiwallet GUI support by luke-jr · Pull Request #11383 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
570 2018-03-15T19:14:03  <promag> luke-jr: receiving address and sending addresses dialogs should mention the wallet name in some place
571 2018-03-15T19:14:10  <promag> in the title for instance
572 2018-03-15T19:14:45  <luke-jr> I could add that, but it seems okay to wait for a later PR to add those, and would invalidate the ACKs already received :/
573 2018-03-15T19:14:47  <promag> also test with -disablewallet, the wallet selection should be invisible?
574 2018-03-15T19:15:55  <promag> luke-jr: well that also works, just saying that it could be more complete
575 2018-03-15T19:16:05  *** arbitrary_guy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
576 2018-03-15T19:16:21  <luke-jr> yes, there is much room to improve on it; but I fear causing further delays
577 2018-03-15T19:16:24  <provoostenator> promag: no I mean #10244
578 2018-03-15T19:16:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10244 | Refactor: separate gui from wallet and node by ryanofsky · Pull Request #10244 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
579 2018-03-15T19:17:02  <wumpus> luke-jr: I agree, at some point, if it's an improvement we should merge it, it doesn't have to do every single thing people can think of
580 2018-03-15T19:17:14  <provoostenator> luke-jr: and there's the issue of putting model state in UI elements, which makes future changes to the design needlessly hard
581 2018-03-15T19:17:14  <promag> provoostenator: oh I still have to see that one
582 2018-03-15T19:17:17  <wumpus> collaboration works better on the master branch
583 2018-03-15T19:17:38  <wumpus> but jonasschnelli had some problems with your approach
584 2018-03-15T19:18:10  <provoostenator> E.g. if I want to change the dropdown into a menu, I now need to figure out where to keep the wallet array. The other PR handles that more elegantly (but maybe it's worse in other ways, I can't tell).
585 2018-03-15T19:18:37  <wumpus> provoostenator: agree
586 2018-03-15T19:18:42  <promag> well the way I see both build on top of a weak support of multiwallets
587 2018-03-15T19:18:51  <ryanofsky> fwiw, i haven't looked at jonas pr yet, but i think luke's approach is fine. if jonas has improvements, no reason they can't go in later
588 2018-03-15T19:19:10  <promag> maybe we should focus also on #12587, adding signals etc
589 2018-03-15T19:19:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12587 | Introduce g_wallet_manager, prepare for better dynamic wallet loading/unloading by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12587 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
590 2018-03-15T19:19:24  <luke-jr> wumpus: I don't think we can discuss that fairly without him, unfortunately
591 2018-03-15T19:19:36  *** sneakerhax has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
592 2018-03-15T19:19:36  <promag> I also think we should consider something like #11402
593 2018-03-15T19:19:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11402 | [wallet] Use shared pointer for wallet instances by promag · Pull Request #11402 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
594 2018-03-15T19:19:42  <wumpus> luke-jr: I agree, I think it's a bit single sided like this
595 2018-03-15T19:20:04  <luke-jr> promag: yes, that's one plan I had for down the road
596 2018-03-15T19:20:20  <luke-jr> promag: which is partly why it's important we use a CWalletRef instead of wallet name string ;)
597 2018-03-15T19:21:15  <wumpus> any other topics?
598 2018-03-15T19:21:46  <sipa> lunch?
599 2018-03-15T19:21:51  <luke-jr> XD
600 2018-03-15T19:21:56  <promag> dinner?
601 2018-03-15T19:21:59  <instagibbs> coin selection next steps?
602 2018-03-15T19:22:07  <wumpus> already had both lunch and dinner xD
603 2018-03-15T19:22:11  <instagibbs> a few of us had discussions during coredev, we may want to socialize those ideas?
604 2018-03-15T19:22:13  <Randolf> Just finished lunch.
605 2018-03-15T19:22:19  <wumpus> #topic coin selection next steps
606 2018-03-15T19:22:20  <jtimon> is it still breakfast if it's dinner time?
607 2018-03-15T19:22:30  <luke-jr> kallewoof's stuff, or something else?
608 2018-03-15T19:22:44  <sipa> breakfast is defined as the first meal after waking up; the time of day is irrelevant
609 2018-03-15T19:23:09  <luke-jr> I gotta run :x  bbl
610 2018-03-15T19:23:16  <wumpus> later luke-jr
611 2018-03-15T19:23:20  <achow101> #12605
612 2018-03-15T19:23:21  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12605 | High level road map for coin selection changes · Issue #12605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
613 2018-03-15T19:23:25  <instagibbs> so, Branch and Bound was merged(yay), which leaves us with what to do when we cannot find an exact match. Current strategy is to fallback to Single Random Draw as per murchandamus thesis
614 2018-03-15T19:23:37  <instagibbs> with some *, if achow101 wants to continue
615 2018-03-15T19:23:47  <achow101> *current plannned strategy is to use SRD
616 2018-03-15T19:24:02  * Randolf notes that SRD means Single Random Draw
617 2018-03-15T19:24:13  <instagibbs> morcos had any idea to only SRD on coins smaller than target, to slightly bias towards spending smaller coins, for utxo set reasons
618 2018-03-15T19:24:35  <instagibbs> debate as to whether that is even necessary were had
619 2018-03-15T19:24:51  *** blackjarvis has quit IRC
620 2018-03-15T19:25:04  <instagibbs> pure SRD gives the wallet a nice distribution of utxos, which likely feeds to better BnB exact match rates
621 2018-03-15T19:26:16  <instagibbs> that's... about it.
622 2018-03-15T19:26:26  * jtimon wonders if that slight bias could hurt privacy somehow
623 2018-03-15T19:26:43  <sipa> i think SRD may be a privacy issue too
624 2018-03-15T19:26:49  <instagibbs> jtimon, might mark as Core, but right now we hoover tiny inputs
625 2018-03-15T19:27:03  <instagibbs> sipa, versus what?
626 2018-03-15T19:27:33  <sipa> ideally you end up with a strategy that is hard to distinguish from BnB
627 2018-03-15T19:27:54  <jtimon> instagibbs: yeah, I'm not opposed to the idea in principle, just launching questions to the air to see what other people think
628 2018-03-15T19:28:18  <jtimon> what was BnB?
629 2018-03-15T19:28:46  <instagibbs> #10637
630 2018-03-15T19:28:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10637 | Coin Selection with Murchs algorithm by achow101 · Pull Request #10637 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
631 2018-03-15T19:28:58  <meshcollider> BnB stands for Branch and bound
632 2018-03-15T19:29:16  <sipa> instagibbs: if you have 80% of UTXO very close to 1 BTC, then SRD will be very likely to include such outputs, revealing something about your UTXO size distribution
633 2018-03-15T19:29:18  <jtimon> thanks!
634 2018-03-15T19:29:23  *** promag has quit IRC
635 2018-03-15T19:29:46  *** SopaXorzTaker has quit IRC
636 2018-03-15T19:29:54  <instagibbs> sipa, with a 1BTC target? As oppose to BnB?
637 2018-03-15T19:30:01  <instagibbs> Maybe we can continue post-meeting...
638 2018-03-15T19:30:03  <sipa> yeah
639 2018-03-15T19:31:26  * instagibbs will continue post meeting
640 2018-03-15T19:32:19  <wumpus> ok, anything else for the meeting?
641 2018-03-15T19:33:01  <wumpus> #endmeeting
642 2018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Mar 15 19:33:01 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
643 2018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-15-19.01.html
644 2018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-15-19.01.txt
645 2018-03-15T19:33:01  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-15-19.01.log.html
646 2018-03-15T19:34:47  *** gwollon is now known as gwillen
647 2018-03-15T19:35:40  <achow101> instagibbs: post meeting continue?
648 2018-03-15T19:35:47  <instagibbs> yeah, formulating thoughts
649 2018-03-15T19:36:11  <instagibbs> sipa, I see what you mean, but I don't think other strategies are much(any?) better
650 2018-03-15T19:36:11  *** Victorsueca has quit IRC
651 2018-03-15T19:36:23  <instagibbs> aside from quite advanced coin control
652 2018-03-15T19:36:34  <sipa> Randolf: Lightning is implemented by software like c-lightning and lnd. Bitcoin is implemented by software like Bitcoin Core and btcd. They are otherwise unrelated.
653 2018-03-15T19:37:09  <sipa> Particular implementations of lightning may or may not require you to run particular bitcoin implementations, but that depends heavily on what software is involved.
654 2018-03-15T19:37:30  *** Victorsueca has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
655 2018-03-15T19:37:35  *** Randolf has quit IRC
656 2018-03-15T19:38:33  <meshcollider> e.g. lnd requires either core or btcd, c-lightning and eclair both requires core
657 2018-03-15T19:39:18  <sipa> he left
658 2018-03-15T19:39:27  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
659 2018-03-15T19:39:57  *** Guest1754 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
660 2018-03-15T19:40:40  <instagibbs> BnB dodges this issue I think by 1) not having change 2) "over fitting" to the exact target. Once we have change, we have to make decisions about how big that change should be. Right now it's 1 bitcent, and ends up with Core hoovering tiny inputs to hit that.
661 2018-03-15T19:41:26  <Murch> sorry, I was at lunch.
662 2018-03-15T19:42:03  *** promag has quit IRC
663 2018-03-15T19:42:20  <Murch> BnB strictly only includes inputs smaller or equal than the target, so limiting SRD to inputs smaller than the target might make the input set more like a BnB one.
664 2018-03-15T19:42:54  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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666 2018-03-15T19:43:48  <achow101> The fact that there will be change indicates that BnB wasn't used at all though
667 2018-03-15T19:44:05  <achow101> so I don't think it really needs to look like BnB
668 2018-03-15T19:44:08  <instagibbs> its more about revealing stuff about the rest of your utxo set
669 2018-03-15T19:44:10  <sipa> well ideally the chabge isn't recognizable
670 2018-03-15T19:44:21  <instagibbs> typically it will mean a single output
671 2018-03-15T19:44:29  <sipa> but leaking BNB or not isn't as bad as leaking information about your utxo size distribution
672 2018-03-15T19:44:49  <Murch> sipa: with random selection, change might be bigger or smaller than the sending output, isn't that good?
673 2018-03-15T19:45:26  <sipa> there are so many aspects to privacy, it's hard :)
674 2018-03-15T19:45:50  <instagibbs> if you can name a counter-proposal, it may help
675 2018-03-15T19:46:05  <instagibbs> not putting on spot, for my own imagination
676 2018-03-15T19:46:06  <Murch> Largest first would probably also work well in combination with BnB
677 2018-03-15T19:46:12  <Murch> :p
678 2018-03-15T19:46:16  <instagibbs> lol
679 2018-03-15T19:46:37  <Murch> FIFO is pretty decent all around, might leak less information about composition, but more about time distribution
680 2018-03-15T19:47:22  <sipa> i was wondering if you could do something like randomly adding change of a particular size, and then run BnB again
681 2018-03-15T19:47:38  <instagibbs> sipa, me too, if you can engineer a target
682 2018-03-15T19:47:38  <sipa> but there are so many design parameters, and risk becoming very slow
683 2018-03-15T19:47:55  <Murch> Then we'd waste all the computational work to hit something that is actually arbitrary
684 2018-03-15T19:47:58  <instagibbs> i think picking the "right" change size using expert rules is foolhardy unless we really know more
685 2018-03-15T19:48:15  <sipa> agree
686 2018-03-15T19:48:23  <Murch> instagibbs: I mean you could fill buckets of change sizes, to spread combination space for BnB
687 2018-03-15T19:48:27  <sipa> Murch: yes, absolutely - though it could run with lower computational limits or so
688 2018-03-15T19:48:40  <Murch> but that seems overly optimistic in regard to how well we understand the overall effect
689 2018-03-15T19:48:44  *** moneyball has quit IRC
690 2018-03-15T19:48:45  <instagibbs> Murch, wallet history to know targets, etc :)
691 2018-03-15T19:49:02  <instagibbs> like, maybe Coinbase needs a 2 BTC utxo for daily payments, i dont!
692 2018-03-15T19:49:15  <instagibbs> but again this leaks info if used
693 2018-03-15T19:49:24  <instagibbs> ack on hard :(
694 2018-03-15T19:49:37  <sipa> use change = your previous payment output amount :p
695 2018-03-15T19:50:19  <Murch> sipa then you leak a connection to a previous tx
696 2018-03-15T19:50:32  <sipa> oh. duh.
697 2018-03-15T19:51:31  <Murch> It's been suggested to target the average amount of the last x spents from the wallet, to make sure the change is a useful size
698 2018-03-15T19:51:41  <Murch> but then again we're reducing the UTXO pool's variance
699 2018-03-15T19:51:48  <Murch> which is bad for the combination space of BnB
700 2018-03-15T19:52:31  <Murch> so, yes, random leaks information about the distribution of the wallet's utxo pool, but only if you create a large transaction target in the first place
701 2018-03-15T19:52:49  <Murch> otherwise the information is spread out over potentially unrelated tx in the first place
702 2018-03-15T19:53:20  <Murch> and if you're creating a large transaction, you'd be leaking information about your wallet's utxo pool composition with most strategies
703 2018-03-15T19:57:32  <instagibbs> sipa, i thought you were joking :P
704 2018-03-15T19:58:35  <Murch> we could have multiple fallback algorithms that switch off. :p
705 2018-03-15T19:58:49  <Murch> But that would be terrible to analyze
706 2018-03-15T20:01:23  <Murch> Largest first smaller than the target might actually also be an option.
707 2018-03-15T20:02:08  <achow101> Murch: sipa: btw started doing SRD here: https://github.com/achow101/bitcoin/tree/srd-fallback
708 2018-03-15T20:03:19  <Murch> achow101: I've been thinking. We might want to do SRD first, since it is computationally much cheaper than BnB, and then use the waste result of the SRD as an upper bound for BnB.
709 2018-03-15T20:03:29  <Murch> only switch to the BnB result if it has less waste.
710 2018-03-15T20:04:51  <achow101> Murch: i don't think that it is likely for SRD to find a result that has less waste than BnB. Furthermore, that would mean we do both SRD and BnB for every selection
711 2018-03-15T20:05:20  <Murch> Yeah, but shuffle pick from front is super cheap.
712 2018-03-15T20:05:44  <Murch> *"Yeah, but shuffle, then pick from front is super cheap."
713 2018-03-15T20:05:46  <instagibbs> BnB being preferred has the nice property that it ends transaction chaining in the wallet for good
714 2018-03-15T20:06:01  <Murch> mhkay, just an idea
715 2018-03-15T20:06:12  <instagibbs> not saying it's a bad idea, just saying it was one considering iirc
716 2018-03-15T20:07:07  *** rex_4539 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
717 2018-03-15T20:07:45  <Murch> In the end it's always a question of tradeoffs. Do you want to minimize costs, maximize privacy, minimize UTXO pool, …, or some mix thereoff. ;)
718 2018-03-15T20:10:07  <instagibbs> code complexity, transaction chaining limits...
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725 2018-03-15T20:41:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #12700: Document RPC method aliasing (master...pr/alias) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12700
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732 2018-03-15T21:02:10  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
733 2018-03-15T21:05:51  <Murch> yeah
734 2018-03-15T21:05:55  *** promag has quit IRC
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736 2018-03-15T21:07:09  <Murch> instagibbs: I think that SRD or FIFO would probably be a contender for decent mix of tradeoffs, and would use one of those as a baseline to compare against. But then suggest that we compare with concrete other proposals.
737 2018-03-15T21:09:16  <sipa> Murch: i wonder if a good strategy (perhaps only when the utxo set is large) is use a pre filtering that trims the UTXO set down, biasing in favor of amounts that are further away from other amounts
738 2018-03-15T21:09:56  <Murch> That would definitely help BnB, and also spread out selection for SRD. Isn't that computationally intensive, though?
739 2018-03-15T21:10:03  *** Krellan has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
740 2018-03-15T21:10:17  <sipa> why would it?
741 2018-03-15T21:10:28  <sipa> it seems like it can be done with a single pass
742 2018-03-15T21:10:49  <Murch> How would you do it? Logarithmic bucketing?
743 2018-03-15T21:11:35  <sipa> i'll think about it
744 2018-03-15T21:15:13  *** Squidicuz has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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770 2018-03-15T22:40:12  <promag> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12650#issuecomment-373538129 wut
771 2018-03-15T22:42:56  <sipa> yeah...
772 2018-03-15T22:43:06  <sipa> i think i can guess what you're linking to
773 2018-03-15T22:44:50  *** intcat has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
774 2018-03-15T22:46:16  *** Giszmo has quit IRC
775 2018-03-15T22:50:32  <meshcollider> Looks like spam, it's nonsense
776 2018-03-15T22:52:17  *** Guest1754 has quit IRC
777 2018-03-15T22:56:22  *** rex_4539 has quit IRC
778 2018-03-15T23:01:24  *** qu4ku has quit IRC
779 2018-03-15T23:07:33  <luke-jr> looks like it wants to be human :x
780 2018-03-15T23:08:32  <sipa> i think it may be human
781 2018-03-15T23:08:44  <midnightmagic> that's charitable
782 2018-03-15T23:18:44  *** Murch has quit IRC
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785 2018-03-15T23:31:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/947c25ead21a...df529dcc65e8
786 2018-03-15T23:31:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bb079a0 Drew Rasmussen: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock
787 2018-03-15T23:31:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master df529dc Pieter Wuille: Merge #12693: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock...
788 2018-03-15T23:32:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #12693: Remove unused variable in SortForBlock (master...unused-sort-for-block-param) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12693
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792 2018-03-15T23:38:07  <promag> sipa: don't stop there, here is another :P #12621
793 2018-03-15T23:38:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12621 | Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions by promag · Pull Request #12621 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
794 2018-03-15T23:45:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/df529dcc65e8...2bac3e484114
795 2018-03-15T23:45:32  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1ee72a8 João Barbosa: qt: Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions
796 2018-03-15T23:45:32  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2bac3e4 Pieter Wuille: Merge #12621: Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions...
797 2018-03-15T23:46:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #12621: Avoid querying unnecessary model data when filtering transactions (master...2018-03-transaction-filter-avoid-querying) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12621
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804 2018-03-15T23:58:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2bac3e484114...7be9a9a570c1
805 2018-03-15T23:58:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2761bca Pieter Wuille: Merge READWRITEMANY into READWRITE
806 2018-03-15T23:58:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 172f5fa Pieter Wuille: Support deserializing into temporaries...
807 2018-03-15T23:58:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7be9a9a Pieter Wuille: Merge #12683: Fix more constness violations in serialization code...
808 2018-03-15T23:59:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #12683: Fix more constness violations in serialization code (master...201803_moreser) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12683