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 62 2018-05-24T08:04:43  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: agree re 13253
 63 2018-05-24T08:06:50  <wumpus> getting the 0.16.1 release out should probably be priority now
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 65 2018-05-24T08:12:08  <wumpus> moneyball: hahahahaha "double unicorn"
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 67 2018-05-24T08:17:05  <wumpus> moneyball: but good to know they're making progress. A really persistent one was jtimon's PR that I merged yesterday, #10757.
 68 2018-05-24T08:17:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10757 | RPC: Introduce getblockstats to plot things by jtimon · Pull Request #10757 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 69 2018-05-24T08:25:56  <fanquake> wumpus there are still a couple unclean/complicated backports to do.
 70 2018-05-24T08:26:00  <fanquake> Wondering if the people that PR'd the changes to master want to handle the backporting?
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 72 2018-05-24T08:26:49  <fanquake> wumpus Also if you're happy with it, I think #13246 is ready. I've tested, and it's a good cleanup.
 73 2018-05-24T08:26:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13246 | doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13246 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 76 2018-05-24T08:32:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13253: [0.16] Further Backports (0.16...0-16-further-backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13253
 77 2018-05-24T08:37:32  <wumpus> fanquake: I think it's preferable if the people that PRed the changes to master do that, yes
 78 2018-05-24T08:37:57  <wumpus> at the very least they'd need to review it carefully
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 84 2018-05-24T08:45:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7f4db9a7c354...5c41b6008079
 85 2018-05-24T08:45:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9d4f942 Chun Kuan Lee: doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md...
 86 2018-05-24T08:45:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5c41b60 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13246: doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md...
 87 2018-05-24T08:46:09  <fanquake> wumpus I've added them to the "Blockers" in the High Prio list
 88 2018-05-24T08:46:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13246: doc: Bump to Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 in build-windows.md (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13246
 89 2018-05-24T08:46:29  <fanquake> I think we can just about untag that one for 0.15.2
 90 2018-05-24T08:48:02  <kallewoof> Is there a good link to the high prio list? I always have a hard time finding it and keep a tab of https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+project%3Abitcoin%2Fbitcoin%2F8 open, but not sure that URL changes at some point.
 91 2018-05-24T08:48:17  <kallewoof> "bitcoin/bitcoin/8" doesn't seem particularly permanent.
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 93 2018-05-24T08:49:15  <wumpus> fanquake: you mean the GUI settings dialog crash? yes, probably, I don't think it's so likely that we'll do a 0.15.x release anyway
 94 2018-05-24T08:50:07  <wumpus> kallewoof: pretty much all github URLs are permanent (for some definitions of permanent at least)
 95 2018-05-24T08:50:24  <fanquake> wumpus yep, I'll untag it
 96 2018-05-24T08:50:31  <wumpus> fanquake: already did
 97 2018-05-24T08:50:36  <fanquake> :o
 98 2018-05-24T08:51:03  <wumpus> kallewoof: '8' is the project ID which is not supposed to change
 99 2018-05-24T08:51:06  <fanquake> kallewoof I think https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 is your best bet for now
100 2018-05-24T08:53:22  <kallewoof> OK, thanks
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116 2018-05-24T09:12:33  <aj> kallewoof: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 ?
117 2018-05-24T09:13:02  <aj> ah, helps if you don't get lost in scrollback
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121 2018-05-24T09:17:36  <promag> wumpus: #13063
122 2018-05-24T09:17:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13063 | Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance by promag · Pull Request #13063 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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124 2018-05-24T09:27:48  <wumpus> apparently there's a new "checks" thing on github PRs?
125 2018-05-24T09:28:49  <wumpus> promag: thanks
126 2018-05-24T09:30:07  <fanquake> wumpus yes, not quite sure what that's for yet
127 2018-05-24T09:30:13  <promag> also #13160 could have more feedback
128 2018-05-24T09:30:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13160 | wallet: Unlock spent outputs by promag · Pull Request #13160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
129 2018-05-24T09:30:26  <fanquake> I wonder if it's for the linter type things we are currently running on Travis
130 2018-05-24T09:30:38  <promag> fanquake: I guess integrations must update first?
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132 2018-05-24T09:32:27  <fanquake> promag Do you mean they will run before travis does?
133 2018-05-24T09:34:14  <promag> fanquake: I mean apps (travis for instance) must update first to use checks
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135 2018-05-24T09:34:30  <promag> or we must update .travis.yml?
136 2018-05-24T09:35:09  <fanquake> promag ah ok. I'll have a read up https://blog.github.com/2018-05-07-introducing-checks-api/
137 2018-05-24T09:35:09  <promag> https://help.github.com/articles/about-status-checks/#checks
138 2018-05-24T09:36:24  <promag> but looks like a nice feature
139 2018-05-24T09:37:19  <fanquake> Also https://blog.travis-ci.com/2018-05-07-announcing-support-for-github-checks-api-on-travis-ci-com
140 2018-05-24T09:38:08  <fanquake> Also Also, if anyone wasn't aware https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/open-source-on-travis-ci-com
141 2018-05-24T09:39:58  <wumpus> seems like a nice feature, if it can list the failed checks in the PR instead of having to dig into the travis log every time
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143 2018-05-24T09:41:53  <wumpus> although having to look for 'apps' in a 'marketplace' seems kind of sily
144 2018-05-24T09:42:48  <fanquake> heh
145 2018-05-24T09:42:54  <wumpus> "
146 2018-05-24T09:42:56  <wumpus> Organization owners and users with push access to a repository can create checks and statuses with GitHub's API. For more information, see "Checks" and "Statuses" in the GitHub Developer documentation."
147 2018-05-24T09:47:27  <wumpus> so we could push *our own* statuses, funny. Though agree with promag it would be useful if this was integrated into, say, travis, to not have to run parallel checking infrastructure.
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149 2018-05-24T09:59:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5c41b6008079...6378eef18f61
150 2018-05-24T09:59:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 80b4910 João Barbosa: wallet: Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance
151 2018-05-24T09:59:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6378eef Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13063: Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance...
152 2018-05-24T09:59:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13063: Use shared pointer to retain wallet instance (master...2018-04-wallet-sharedptr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13063
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154 2018-05-24T10:04:04  <promag> wumpus: thanks, #13111 on high priority?
155 2018-05-24T10:04:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13111 | [WIP] Add unloadwallet RPC by promag · Pull Request #13111 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
156 2018-05-24T10:05:22  <wumpus> I think we should try to keep high-priority discussion in the meetings
157 2018-05-24T10:06:14  <wumpus> that makes sure at least everyone has an idea of what is added. I'm okay with adding one inbetween when there is really a hurry, but this even has a [WIP] tag still
158 2018-05-24T10:07:41  <wumpus> also I think high priority == 0.16.1 now
159 2018-05-24T10:11:08  <promag> wumpus: when is 0.17 feature freeze?
160 2018-05-24T10:13:05  <wumpus> #12624
161 2018-05-24T10:13:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12624 | Release schedule for 0.17.0 · Issue #12624 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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171 2018-05-24T10:59:00  <promag> tks
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185 2018-05-24T12:13:02  <fanquake> wumpus #13284 should be able to go in. Pretty trivial fix.
186 2018-05-24T12:13:04  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13284 | gui: fix visual "overflow" of amount input. by brandonrninefive · Pull Request #13284 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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192 2018-05-24T12:30:06  <wumpus> fanquake: will look at it, thanks
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199 2018-05-24T13:08:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6378eef18f61...a9b6957383a7
200 2018-05-24T13:08:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c865ee1 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Fix FreeBSD build by including utilstrencodings.h...
201 2018-05-24T13:08:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a9b6957 MarcoFalke: Merge #13314: Fix FreeBSD build by including utilstrencodings.h...
202 2018-05-24T13:08:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13314: Fix FreeBSD build by including utilstrencodings.h (master...2018_05_freebsd_build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13314
203 2018-05-24T13:12:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a9b6957383a7...536120ec39be
204 2018-05-24T13:12:40  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 97c112d Ben Woosley: Declare TorReply parsing functions in torcontrol_tests...
205 2018-05-24T13:12:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 536120e MarcoFalke: Merge #13291: test: Don't include torcontrol.cpp into the test file...
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207 2018-05-24T13:13:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13291: test: Don't include torcontrol.cpp into the test file (master...tor-reply) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13291
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226 2018-05-24T13:53:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/536120ec39be...f8be43413368
227 2018-05-24T13:53:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5f3cbde Brandon Ruggles: Increased max width of amount field to prevent number overflow bug.
228 2018-05-24T13:53:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f8be434 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13284: gui: fix visual "overflow" of amount input....
229 2018-05-24T13:53:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13284: gui: fix visual "overflow" of amount input. (master...ui_amount_overflow_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13284
230 2018-05-24T13:56:12  <fanquake> jonasschnelli I probably should have tested on Windows, but I've almost had enough of VMs for the day
231 2018-05-24T13:56:26  <fanquake> If Windows is broken somehow it'll be the odd one out
232 2018-05-24T13:58:55  <jonasschnelli> fanquake: heh!
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235 2018-05-24T14:05:41  <wumpus> ideally it'd use the font size, instead of a fixed width
236 2018-05-24T14:06:02  <wumpus> but an improvement is an improvement...
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238 2018-05-24T14:07:21  <wumpus> (but there is a qt function to compute font extents, which we use in some places, if this ever comes up as issue again we should use that)
239 2018-05-24T14:11:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] FeedTheWeb opened pull request #13315: remove ZMQ message limit (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13315
240 2018-05-24T14:12:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f8be43413368...610f4dd719ad
241 2018-05-24T14:12:11  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa865ef MarcoFalke: qa: Fix wallet_listreceivedby race
242 2018-05-24T14:12:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 610f4dd MarcoFalke: Merge #13304: qa: Fix wallet_listreceivedby race...
243 2018-05-24T14:13:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13304: qa: Fix wallet_listreceivedby race (master...Mf1805-qaWalletRace) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13304
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253 2018-05-24T14:27:29  <jnewbery> moneyball, jimpo: thanks for continuing to chase Github!
254 2018-05-24T14:27:54  <jnewbery> I also got an email from Ben at Github with another workaround in case people are still having issues: https://0bin.net/paste/4maKKIx04UweS5rA#EvAA3aPuNEb8fRr8x+csVRwfjjS5VCmbP5Mn7r3OGvz
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256 2018-05-24T14:28:28  <jnewbery> append ?timeline_per_page=20 to the end of any PR URL
257 2018-05-24T14:36:18  <wumpus> github has a way to restrict the number of posts per page? that's good to know
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286 2018-05-24T16:40:13  <promag> jnewbery: #13111 begs for your review =)
287 2018-05-24T16:40:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13111 | Add unloadwallet RPC by promag · Pull Request #13111 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
288 2018-05-24T16:48:09  <jnewbery> promag: Of course I will, in good time. I've just reviewed #13100, and I don't think there's a huge rush to review all the load/unload wallet PRs in parallel
289 2018-05-24T16:48:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13100 | gui: Add menu entry to open wallet by promag · Pull Request #13100 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
290 2018-05-24T16:48:38  <promag> jnewbery: what should come first? menu entries or unload?
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292 2018-05-24T16:59:35  <jnewbery> I don't think it matters. I'm more concerned about not hogging reviewer/maintainer time.
293 2018-05-24T16:59:52  <jnewbery> I got another update from Ben at Github: One more quick update, the performance improvement I mentioned also made it into production moments ago, so hopefully the URL argument workaround should be less-and-less necessary as well.
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301 2018-05-24T17:41:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #13317: [0.16.1] Remainig backports (0.16...Mf1805-016ForBackport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13317
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309 2018-05-24T18:47:43  <promag> jnewbery: I prefer unloading first, then UI actions can be added at the same time for both load and unload
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311 2018-05-24T18:52:22  <sipa> jimpo: in the raw data about bip 158, the second but last column is the number of entries in the basic filter
312 2018-05-24T18:53:00  <sipa> is that the number of unique elements, or the total number? (i.e. does it count multiple identical scriptPubKeys once or multiple times?)
313 2018-05-24T18:54:02  <jimpo> unique elements
314 2018-05-24T18:54:41  <jimpo> if you want the raw data for the sub-filters (as being discussed on the mailing list), I have those too
315 2018-05-24T18:55:16  <sipa> it seems the byte size is almost unbelievably close to the theoretical limit
316 2018-05-24T18:55:40  <jimpo> yeah, 21 is the limit
317 2018-05-24T18:56:17  <jimpo> I have a graph somewhere of average bitsize per element vs # of elements in a filter
318 2018-05-24T18:56:51  <jimpo> it drops off very fast. at around 200 elements or so, I think it's already at 22 or 23 (need to double check that)
319 2018-05-24T18:57:37  <sipa> jimpo: the limit is actually higher
320 2018-05-24T18:58:03  <jimpo> oh? how's that?
321 2018-05-24T18:58:53  <MarcoFalke> I cherry-picked the remaining backports here: #13317
322 2018-05-24T18:58:55  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13317 | [0.16.1] Remainig backports by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #13317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
323 2018-05-24T18:59:23  <MarcoFalke> I believe the conflicts were only due to refactoring (variable names changed) and one adjacent documentation change
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326 2018-05-24T18:59:41  <sipa> jimpo: let's discuss after meeting
327 2018-05-24T19:00:06  <wumpus> #startmeeting
328 2018-05-24T19:00:06  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu May 24 19:00:06 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
329 2018-05-24T19:00:06  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
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332 2018-05-24T19:00:13  <promag> hi
333 2018-05-24T19:00:31  <jimpo> hi
334 2018-05-24T19:00:32  <murch1> hello
335 2018-05-24T19:00:41  <jcorgan> lurking
336 2018-05-24T19:00:49  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
337 2018-05-24T19:00:57  <achow101> hi
338 2018-05-24T19:01:01  <jonasschnelli> hi
339 2018-05-24T19:01:32  <wumpus> I guess the topic of priority today is 0.16.1
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341 2018-05-24T19:01:44  <jamesob> hi
342 2018-05-24T19:01:50  <jnewbery> hello
343 2018-05-24T19:01:56  <wumpus> #topic 0.16.1
344 2018-05-24T19:02:03  <wumpus> there's a few backports left to do
345 2018-05-24T19:02:31  <wumpus> or does #13317 include all of them?
346 2018-05-24T19:02:31  <cfields> hi
347 2018-05-24T19:02:32  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13317 | [0.16.1] Remainig backports by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #13317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
348 2018-05-24T19:02:41  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: I left out the qt one
349 2018-05-24T19:02:53  <MarcoFalke> I think it changes translations. I might do it in a separate pull
350 2018-05-24T19:03:04  <wumpus> I'll add that one to "high priority for review" at least
351 2018-05-24T19:03:07  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: ok, thanks!
352 2018-05-24T19:03:45  <wumpus> so please all review that PR ^^
353 2018-05-24T19:04:25  <wumpus> especially the non-trivial backports
354 2018-05-24T19:04:42  <MarcoFalke> With regard to the other high priority prs in the project: I think we can remove the one from BlueMatt for now
355 2018-05-24T19:04:51  <jtimon> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12172 is a small thing, but it is a bugfix, perhaps it makes sense to backport it?
356 2018-05-24T19:04:52  <MarcoFalke> And add next week when the rebase is done
357 2018-05-24T19:05:09  <sipa> #12172
358 2018-05-24T19:05:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12172 | Bugfix: RPC: savemempool: Dont save until LoadMempool() is finished by jtimon · Pull Request #12172 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
359 2018-05-24T19:05:34  <wumpus> I think we should focus on 0.16.1 now, we'll get around to the other high priority stuff again next week
360 2018-05-24T19:05:36  <MarcoFalke> jtimon: that lead to a ton of issues in our tests
361 2018-05-24T19:05:46  <MarcoFalke> I'd prefer we didn't backport that one
362 2018-05-24T19:06:10  <wumpus> I don't think it's terribly urgent to backport, maybe for 0.16.2
363 2018-05-24T19:06:13  <jamesob> is #12431 worth a backport?
364 2018-05-24T19:06:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12431 | Only call NotifyBlockTip when chainActive changes by jamesob · Pull Request #12431 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
365 2018-05-24T19:06:26  <MarcoFalke> jamesob: What bug does it fix?
366 2018-05-24T19:07:00  <jamesob> potentially incorrect behavior in waitforblockheight (and anything else relying on rpc/blockchain.cpp:latestblock)
367 2018-05-24T19:07:02  <jtimon> MarcoFalke: ok, no hurry, good to know someone tried it, now I'm curious about the issues in the tests and I'll play with travis and the backport
368 2018-05-24T19:07:20  <MarcoFalke> jamesob: waitforblockheight is a hidden tests-only rpc
369 2018-05-24T19:07:23  <wumpus> potentially how bad?
370 2018-05-24T19:07:25  <wumpus> oh
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372 2018-05-24T19:08:22  <jnewbery> jtimon: #12863
373 2018-05-24T19:08:23  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12863 | mempool_persist.py failing in travis · Issue #12863 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
374 2018-05-24T19:08:59  <jtimon> jnewbery: thanks
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376 2018-05-24T19:09:42  <wumpus> other topics?
377 2018-05-24T19:10:37  <sipa> i want to bring up #13298 briefly
378 2018-05-24T19:10:39  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13298 | Net: Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time by naumenkogs · Pull Request #13298 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
379 2018-05-24T19:10:39  <wumpus> anything else important for 0.16.1 that still needs to be done?
380 2018-05-24T19:10:49  <sipa> (not for 0.16.1, to be clear)
381 2018-05-24T19:11:04  <wumpus> (no problem, that was an orthogonal question)
382 2018-05-24T19:11:08  <wumpus> #topic Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time
383 2018-05-24T19:11:45  <sipa> i want to bring it up because it's a possibly significant effect on P2P transaction relay
384 2018-05-24T19:11:59  <sipa> and it needs review beyond "does the code work"
385 2018-05-24T19:12:02  <wumpus> I haven't had chance to look at it yet
386 2018-05-24T19:12:17  <sipa> but it's also just local policy and not something that warrants a BIP imho
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388 2018-05-24T19:12:37  <wumpus> agree
389 2018-05-24T19:12:55  <sipa> maybe there's not much more to say about that, just hoping to get people to think about it a bit
390 2018-05-24T19:13:33  <wumpus> #action look at PR 13298
391 2018-05-24T19:13:54  <wumpus> it's three days old, so people are excused not having an opinion on it yet :-)
392 2018-05-24T19:14:09  <sipa> end topic :)
393 2018-05-24T19:14:15  <cfields> thanks for bringing it up, I'll have a look as well...
394 2018-05-24T19:14:23  <wumpus> other topics?
395 2018-05-24T19:14:23  <cfields> it'd be nice to have a tool to model that kind of change, though.
396 2018-05-24T19:14:47  <provoostenator> Topic suggestion: GUI prune setting
397 2018-05-24T19:15:23  <wumpus> cfields: makes sense, maybe propose it in the PR
398 2018-05-24T19:15:36  <wumpus> #topic GUI prune setting (provoostenator)
399 2018-05-24T19:15:38  <provoostenator> AKA #13043
400 2018-05-24T19:15:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13043 | [qt] OptionsDialog: add prune setting by Sjors · Pull Request #13043 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
401 2018-05-24T19:16:23  <jonasschnelli> Looks good,.. maybe orthogonal, but the prune settings should be in the intro...
402 2018-05-24T19:16:26  <provoostenator> There's some confusion around whether using QT settings is appropriate for this, and I see three ways out.
403 2018-05-24T19:16:29  <jonasschnelli> That's where it is probably most valuable
404 2018-05-24T19:16:59  <provoostenator> 1. ignore the problem
405 2018-05-24T19:17:02  <wumpus> I'm ok with most solutions, except writing to bitcoin.conf
406 2018-05-24T19:17:12  <provoostenator> 2. go the writable config file route
407 2018-05-24T19:17:13  <jonasschnelli> what wumpus sais
408 2018-05-24T19:17:14  <kanzure> hi.
409 2018-05-24T19:17:28  <provoostenator> 3. interpret a lack of prune= setting differently
410 2018-05-24T19:18:15  <jonasschnelli> Can't the GUI settings not just override what is already set?
411 2018-05-24T19:18:16  <instagibbs> (3) is interesting
412 2018-05-24T19:18:33  <achow101> there currently are a few settings that are saved to qt settings that are shared between qt and bitcoind
413 2018-05-24T19:18:40  <achow101> but bitcoind can't access
414 2018-05-24T19:18:45  <provoostenator> If we go for (2) then I'd like to nominate #11082 for priority review
415 2018-05-24T19:18:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11082 | Add new bitcoin_rw.conf file that is used for settings modified by this software itself by luke-jr · Pull Request #11082 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
416 2018-05-24T19:18:56  <jonasschnelli> If prune is set via confi/startip, disallow access in the GUI settings (only display it)
417 2018-05-24T19:18:57  <achow101> so if we follow what has been done previously, then we ignore it
418 2018-05-24T19:19:01  <wumpus> yes an additional writable config file would be fine
419 2018-05-24T19:19:31  <jonasschnelli> Do we want four(!) levels of configuration?
420 2018-05-24T19:19:35  <jimpo> What about augmenting the GUI to help you generate a default config file when none already exists?
421 2018-05-24T19:19:37  <jonasschnelli> And eventually importing conf-files?
422 2018-05-24T19:19:40  <wumpus> there have also been plans to add RPCs to change configuration settings, that'd require a similar thing, just don't write the -conf file it's just as likely to be in an read-only directory
423 2018-05-24T19:20:23  <jonasschnelli> Would the rw_conf file be replacing the QSettings layer?
424 2018-05-24T19:20:31  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: probably
425 2018-05-24T19:20:31  <provoostenator> Right, I'd also like to get rid of QT settings completely and use a read-write (seperate) config file.
426 2018-05-24T19:20:38  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: long term, at least
427 2018-05-24T19:20:39  <jonasschnelli> That would be acceptable
428 2018-05-24T19:20:58  <provoostenator> I wrote a migration away from QTSettings here: #12833
429 2018-05-24T19:21:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12833 | [qt] move QSettings to bitcoin.conf where possible by Sjors · Pull Request #12833 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
430 2018-05-24T19:21:08  <jonasschnelli> But please not conf<->startup-cli-params<->QTSettings<->level4_rw_conf
431 2018-05-24T19:21:14  <wumpus> nice
432 2018-05-24T19:21:34  <jonasschnelli> Thanks provoostenator for working on that!
433 2018-05-24T19:21:36  <achow101> since this is a problem that effects multiple options, can we just ignore the problem for now and deal with them all together at the same time with a better solution?
434 2018-05-24T19:21:40  <wumpus> yes storing some of the settings in a different place has been problematic
435 2018-05-24T19:21:54  <wumpus> (at least in the QSettings - because bitcoind can't get there)
436 2018-05-24T19:22:00  <instagibbs> users could by and large be migrated over the rw unless they have a need for read-only
437 2018-05-24T19:22:09  <instagibbs> for simplicity
438 2018-05-24T19:22:09  <wumpus> the only thing that would idally be stored in the QSettings would be the data directory
439 2018-05-24T19:22:22  <wumpus> well the bitcoin.conf is for human editing
440 2018-05-24T19:22:28  <provoostenator> This migration would also work if it's done _after_ we add prune stuff to QTSettings.
441 2018-05-24T19:22:35  <wumpus> the _rw is machine writable, all comments will be discarded etc
442 2018-05-24T19:22:41  <instagibbs> ah hm
443 2018-05-24T19:22:45  <jonasschnelli> yes
444 2018-05-24T19:22:48  <provoostenator> But if we can get the proper solution over with, that might be better.
445 2018-05-24T19:23:34  <jonasschnelli> For 12833 I'm also unsure about the term "Limit".
446 2018-05-24T19:23:35  <wumpus> on the other hand, having things be dependent on each other is usually a bad idea, just draws out things
447 2018-05-24T19:23:36  <jonasschnelli> Since this is not true
448 2018-05-24T19:24:25  <provoostenator> jonasschnelli: what "Limit"?
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450 2018-05-24T19:25:09  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: 12833 currently tells user "Limit block storage to: " which is not true... though the tooptip hints towards the right handling.
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452 2018-05-24T19:25:28  <wumpus> how is it not true?
453 2018-05-24T19:25:47  <provoostenator> That's #13043
454 2018-05-24T19:25:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13043 | [qt] OptionsDialog: add prune setting by Sjors · Pull Request #13043 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
455 2018-05-24T19:26:13  <provoostenator> Which I fixed, but screenshot is outdated.
456 2018-05-24T19:26:28  <provoostenator> It's now "Prune &amp;block storage to"
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458 2018-05-24T19:26:45  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: AFAIK the 550MB assumption (if one sets 550) is still on 1MB blocks
459 2018-05-24T19:26:56  <jonasschnelli> But 288min blocks & undos are enforced
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461 2018-05-24T19:27:31  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: right, that's an issue for the command line help too though, I think?
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463 2018-05-24T19:27:36  <jonasschnelli> but maybe we should fix that (if it turns out to be a problem) rathern then changing the word "limit" :)
464 2018-05-24T19:27:42  <provoostenator> I'm not too worried about details of the text and minimum size. It's what we need to do about saving settings that seems to cause things to get stuck.
465 2018-05-24T19:27:49  <jonasschnelli> Indeed
466 2018-05-24T19:28:35  <wumpus> other topics?
467 2018-05-24T19:28:41  <jonasschnelli> I also hoped we could educate the user withing the GUI a bit more about pruning... but can be done later via extending the intro.cpp
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469 2018-05-24T19:29:27  <wumpus> right, let's focus on getting the functionality in first. I think educating the user is a good thing, but having the PR depend on all those things being worked out is going to put it way past 0.17 probably.
470 2018-05-24T19:29:54  <jonasschnelli> I have a short topic: sipa raised concerns about the scantxoutset RPC command
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473 2018-05-24T19:30:24  <jonasschnelli> (if that is something we want to discuss here)
474 2018-05-24T19:30:45  <wumpus> so the feature freeze for 0.17 is 2018-07-16, less than two months away
475 2018-05-24T19:31:02  <provoostenator> Also note that I don't think Mac shows the intro dialog.
476 2018-05-24T19:31:08  <wumpus> #topic scantxoutset RPC command (jonasschnelli)
477 2018-05-24T19:31:14  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: it does at least for me
478 2018-05-24T19:31:18  <wumpus> provoostenator: it should!
479 2018-05-24T19:31:24  <jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12196#pullrequestreview-121570579
480 2018-05-24T19:31:40  <provoostenator> jonasschnelli: ok, maybe I need to delete more stuff for it to appear.
481 2018-05-24T19:31:56  <jonasschnelli> Before continuing on #12196 we may want to discuss it it makes sense to have a scantxoutset command
482 2018-05-24T19:31:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12196 | Add scantxoutset RPC method by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #12196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
483 2018-05-24T19:32:03  <wumpus> you need to delete -whereever it stores the qsettings on Mac-
484 2018-05-24T19:32:31  <wumpus> on UNIX you can pass the flag -resetguisettings but that's not easy on Mac I think
485 2018-05-24T19:32:42  <jonasschnelli> (works on mac as well)
486 2018-05-24T19:33:00  <wumpus> good :)
487 2018-05-24T19:33:22  <provoostenator> Resetting gui settings didn't do it for me, but will debug some other time.
488 2018-05-24T19:33:24  <achow101> jonasschnelli: what is the command supposed to do?
489 2018-05-24T19:33:26  <jonasschnelli> The scan functionality allows utxo sweeping (rawsweeptransaction) with no block scanning
490 2018-05-24T19:33:49  <jonasschnelli> You can pass in n pubkeys/addresses or even xpubs with a lookup window and it gives you back all unspents
491 2018-05-24T19:33:56  <sipa> yeah i just mentioned that we preferably don't commit to having functionality that's hard to maintain in the future
492 2018-05-24T19:33:58  <jonasschnelli> And eben a rawsweeptransaction to a single address
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518 2018-05-24T19:34:17  <sipa> fun.
519 2018-05-24T19:34:18  <instagibbs> err what
520 2018-05-24T19:34:21  <wumpus> services massacre
521 2018-05-24T19:34:23  <cfields> irc unicorns...
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523 2018-05-24T19:34:46  *** rex4539 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
524 2018-05-24T19:34:55  <cfields> let's move to slack!
525 2018-05-24T19:34:59  <cfields> (/s)
526 2018-05-24T19:35:06  <wumpus> :-(
527 2018-05-24T19:35:06  * jonasschnelli stabs cfields
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532 2018-05-24T19:36:27  <sipa> back to topic?
533 2018-05-24T19:36:29  <sipa> yeah i just mentioned that we preferably don't commit to having functionality that's hard to maintain in the future
534 2018-05-24T19:36:30  <jonasschnelli> Yes. I think sipa's point is a valid point. Do we want to maintain something that may be incompatible with future utxo handling (or new model=
535 2018-05-24T19:36:32  <provoostenator> Such functionality seems quite useful for watch-only stuff
536 2018-05-24T19:36:42  <provoostenator> Without actually having to import things into a wallet.
537 2018-05-24T19:36:53  <sipa> which isn't a problem if it were implemented on top of an optional index
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539 2018-05-24T19:37:36  <jimpo> sipa: is the optional index a full scriptPubKey index?
540 2018-05-24T19:37:42  *** PrivKin has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
541 2018-05-24T19:37:52  <provoostenator> But without caching of some sort (or an index?) I'm guessing it'd be very slow.
542 2018-05-24T19:37:55  *** lifeofguenter has quit IRC
543 2018-05-24T19:37:57  <jimpo> or something less than that?
544 2018-05-24T19:38:10  <jonasschnelli> sipa: what if we allow it for now an mention in the RN it may later require an optional index?
545 2018-05-24T19:38:41  <sipa> yes, perhaps
546 2018-05-24T19:38:44  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: 30seconds for the whole index with an xpub & 1000 keys lookup window on a SSD/fastCPU machine
547 2018-05-24T19:38:51  <jimpo> Or just have an explicit flag enabling the RPC now, even if it requires no additional index at present?
548 2018-05-24T19:38:54  <jonasschnelli> *whole set
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552 2018-05-24T19:39:15  <sipa> yeah, that seems fine
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555 2018-05-24T19:39:30  <sipa> i do see the usefulness of scanning the UTXO set
556 2018-05-24T19:39:38  <provoostenator> All the way back to the genesis block?
557 2018-05-24T19:39:48  <jonasschnelli> jimpo: yes. But feels a bit after artificially holding back functions due to possible future work (which may never happen)
558 2018-05-24T19:39:51  <sipa> provoostenator: it scans the UTXO set, not the blockchain
559 2018-05-24T19:39:53  <wumpus> yes, scanning the utxo set would be incredibly useful
560 2018-05-24T19:40:03  <wumpus> I've wanted this functionality since forever really
561 2018-05-24T19:40:18  <provoostenator> Ah OK, it just gets unspends, not transaction history. Well that's still quite useful indeed.
562 2018-05-24T19:40:27  <jonasschnelli> I wanted that in master before the fork-coins happend. :)
563 2018-05-24T19:40:54  <wumpus> even if slow it's so much faster than scanning the entire chain
564 2018-05-24T19:41:01  <wumpus> (without index)
565 2018-05-24T19:41:07  <jonasschnelli> it would also allow importing wallets (no rescan required) if one don't care about the tx history
566 2018-05-24T19:41:39  <wumpus> using importprunedfunds I guess?
567 2018-05-24T19:42:06  <jonasschnelli> Yes..
568 2018-05-24T19:42:56  *** Krellan has quit IRC
569 2018-05-24T19:43:02  <jonasschnelli> conclusion? Hide behind an artificial block-setting or risk it will not maintainable over time?
570 2018-05-24T19:43:25  *** Krellan has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
571 2018-05-24T19:43:48  <jimpo> I think it's probably fine to risk it not being maintainable over time without an explicit index
572 2018-05-24T19:44:19  <jonasschnelli> Yes. I would feel okay with that...
573 2018-05-24T19:44:45  <jonasschnelli> Let me mention that risk in the RN and fix the PR in general /topic
574 2018-05-24T19:44:50  <wumpus> so it will just become slower due to the linear scan?
575 2018-05-24T19:44:53  <provoostenator> By "not being maintainable over time" do you mean if the UTXO set gets really large or is it a code maintenance things?
576 2018-05-24T19:45:06  <jonasschnelli> from sipa:
577 2018-05-24T19:45:07  <jonasschnelli> Overall, I'm unsure about this. This is functionality that is more easily provided by software that maintains a UTXO index by script, and is not possible in general if we'd move to a design like UHF (see mailinglist) or other UTXO avoidance techniques. Those are far away of course, and features like this can be made optional (like txindex is) if needed. I'm just generally unconvinced a full node is the best place to put
578 2018-05-24T19:45:07  <jonasschnelli>  this.
579 2018-05-24T19:45:10  <wumpus> or is this 'unmaintainable' as in 'will give wumpus more headaches'?
580 2018-05-24T19:45:22  <jonasschnelli> no.. changes of the general model
581 2018-05-24T19:45:28  *** PrivKin has left #bitcoin-core-dev
582 2018-05-24T19:45:39  <sipa> wumpus: in a UHF model, without indexes, implementing a scan of the UTXO set requires going through the blockchain
583 2018-05-24T19:45:57  *** gribble has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
584 2018-05-24T19:46:03  <sipa> (where we store hashes of UTXOs rather than the UTXOs themselves)
585 2018-05-24T19:46:08  <instagibbs> sipa, searchable index has been tried a few times, and sadly dropped, something like 3 times
586 2018-05-24T19:46:12  <wumpus> sipa: so that's a far future thing right?
587 2018-05-24T19:46:13  *** PrivKin has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
588 2018-05-24T19:46:15  <instagibbs> not saying it's not the right way
589 2018-05-24T19:46:28  <sipa> instagibbs: yes, my preference is that's implemented in other software
590 2018-05-24T19:46:51  <jcorgan> i bet there's a dozen private implementations of tx/addr external indexing for xpub related things
591 2018-05-24T19:47:10  <wumpus> I'd really like a way to scan UTXOs, my own appraoch was to stream the UTXO set over HTTP and do it client-side, but that ran into problems with the libevent http server :(
592 2018-05-24T19:47:26  <jonasschnelli> Yes. But there is no fast access to the UTXO set from outside of our code-base IMO
593 2018-05-24T19:47:36  <jcorgan> i do it with zmq notifications and the REST interface
594 2018-05-24T19:47:46  * jonasschnelli curses zmq
595 2018-05-24T19:47:56  <jcorgan> you're welcome :-)
596 2018-05-24T19:47:57  * wumpus still wants to resurrect #7759 some day
597 2018-05-24T19:48:00  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7759 | [WIP] rest: Stream entire utxo set by laanwj · Pull Request #7759 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
598 2018-05-24T19:48:18  <achow101> I've taken to modifying gettxoutsetinfo whenever I need to scan the utxo set. takes like 20 minutes though to scan the whole thing
599 2018-05-24T19:48:21  <jonasschnelli> interesting... almost forgotten
600 2018-05-24T19:48:28  <provoostenator> In this future where "we store hashes of UTXOs rather than the UTXOs themselves", wouldn't there simply be an optional "index" with the UTXO, which this RPC method could then move to?
601 2018-05-24T19:48:43  <jonasschnelli> achow101: only if you are in debug mode? right... takes 30secs here
602 2018-05-24T19:48:45  <wumpus> provoostenator: yes... exactly... I say it's a problem/option for then
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604 2018-05-24T19:49:12  <provoostenator> We'd have to make it clear that in the future the method would / might require an index.
605 2018-05-24T19:49:26  <achow101> jonasschnelli: I think it was the operations I was doing, or my slow hdd
606 2018-05-24T19:49:28  <wumpus> achow101: on ARM it's pretty slow (but still faster than scanning the whole chain!)
607 2018-05-24T19:49:28  <sipa> it's the same issue as we had with txindex
608 2018-05-24T19:49:41  <sipa> people build solution that assume txindex is always there... then we moved to a UTXO model
609 2018-05-24T19:50:08  <sipa> and txindex became an inefficient optional thing
610 2018-05-24T19:50:08  <wumpus> we can even deprecate the RPC then
611 2018-05-24T19:50:14  <achow101> sipa: then it will be the same situation as getrawtransaction
612 2018-05-24T19:50:49  <jimpo> with #13243, it should become less costly to build future indexes in the background...
613 2018-05-24T19:50:50  <wumpus> I don't think we should reject useful, optional, functionality just because of some future data structure change
614 2018-05-24T19:50:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13243 | Make reusable base class for auxiliary indices by jimpo · Pull Request #13243 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
615 2018-05-24T19:50:52  <sipa> achow101: my concern is not the incompatibility
616 2018-05-24T19:51:07  <sipa> achow101: my concern is people building an ecosystem that assumes it's always possible and cheap to do
617 2018-05-24T19:51:43  <sipa> but okay, i agree with the points here
618 2018-05-24T19:52:07  <wumpus> sipa: I agree with that in general, but I'm not sure here
619 2018-05-24T19:52:12  <jonasschnelli> jimpo: great work!
620 2018-05-24T19:52:17  <provoostenator> The fact that it takes 30 seconds is helpful in that case. :-)
621 2018-05-24T19:52:17  <jcorgan> if we want to encourage people to treat bitcoind as the "ground truth", instead of baking up their own stuff, giving them easier access to the "database" would help
622 2018-05-24T19:52:49  <sipa> jcorgan: yes... except that the ground truth in the future may not be the UTXO set
623 2018-05-24T19:53:06  <provoostenator> jcorgan: that too, would be nice to be able to get easy to export dumps of useful things, though not should what format.
624 2018-05-24T19:53:08  <jcorgan> sure, but anything can happen in the future
625 2018-05-24T19:53:17  <wumpus> sure, but anything can happen in the future <- that
626 2018-05-24T19:53:21  <jonasschnelli> jimpo: the question is, if we not want to build a base for an external indexing daemon (outside of the Core project)
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628 2018-05-24T19:53:45  <wumpus> in any case this is hard to do out-of-process right now!
629 2018-05-24T19:53:48  <wumpus> even harder than indexing
630 2018-05-24T19:53:52  <jcorgan> i'd be happy with that, too, instead of making everyone else recreate it
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632 2018-05-24T19:54:05  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Indeed
633 2018-05-24T19:54:10  <sipa> it's also less a concern to add optional indexes now with jimpo's background index work
634 2018-05-24T19:54:24  <sipa> before, new indexes always required ugly hacks all over the validation code
635 2018-05-24T19:54:30  <wumpus> nice!
636 2018-05-24T19:54:32  <jimpo> My guess is there will be ongoing tension between adding RPC functionality and keeping the node requirements small unless there are more options for users
637 2018-05-24T19:54:33  <jcorgan> yes
638 2018-05-24T19:54:46  <echeveria> it's a really bad idea to add an address index.
639 2018-05-24T19:54:47  <provoostenator> Not too mention that you couldn't turn on/off txindex without reindexing everything.
640 2018-05-24T19:54:52  <instagibbs> jimpo, an rpc call in every garage!
641 2018-05-24T19:54:56  <jcorgan> i used to maintain the addrindex patch set and it got uglier and uglier over time
642 2018-05-24T19:54:58  <echeveria> it means people will willyfully build insane systems.
643 2018-05-24T19:55:02  <jimpo> haha
644 2018-05-24T19:55:05  <sipa> echeveria: yes :(
645 2018-05-24T19:55:06  <jonasschnelli> echeveria: agree
646 2018-05-24T19:55:12  <sipa> but i fear they'll do so anyway
647 2018-05-24T19:55:15  <echeveria> rather than sane, scalable things that don't require an ever growing index.
648 2018-05-24T19:55:41  <jimpo> I tend to agree a better solution is to have a separate indexing service that doesn't do consensus but maintains the full chain state
649 2018-05-24T19:55:42  <jonasschnelli> The question is, is it faster to index everything or to have Core running with 10k wallets
650 2018-05-24T19:55:54  <jcorgan> +1 jimpo
651 2018-05-24T19:55:54  <jimpo> and gets blocks via zmq
652 2018-05-24T19:55:59  <sipa> decent wallet software shouldn't ever need to scan
653 2018-05-24T19:56:04  <sipa> except for recovery
654 2018-05-24T19:56:09  <jcorgan> i want to let bitcoind do the hard stuff (validation)
655 2018-05-24T19:56:27  <jcorgan> but then i want to easily get at all the validated data
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657 2018-05-24T19:56:38  <wumpus> maybe it never *needs* to, but there are legit situations in which it's useful as a tool
658 2018-05-24T19:56:43  <sipa> sure!
659 2018-05-24T19:58:10  <jonasschnelli> jimpo: fork Core, ripout the validation stuff and you have an indexing daemon you can connect to your core node over p2p
660 2018-05-24T19:58:25  *** SunbeamMajesty is now known as xHire
661 2018-05-24T19:58:31  <sipa> having a way to disable validation would also help with that :)
662 2018-05-24T19:58:40  <sipa> anyway, this is turning into a philosophical discussion
663 2018-05-24T19:58:40  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: why not use your indexing daemon?
664 2018-05-24T19:58:57  <wumpus> yes, I think we're through the meeting
665 2018-05-24T19:59:06  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: maybe. Not sure if we want another p2p library introduced
666 2018-05-24T19:59:09  *** tryphe_000 has quit IRC
667 2018-05-24T19:59:21  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: not into bitcoin core, I mean as external thing
668 2018-05-24T19:59:27  <wumpus> #endmeeting
669 2018-05-24T19:59:27  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu May 24 19:59:27 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
670 2018-05-24T19:59:27  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-24-19.00.html
671 2018-05-24T19:59:27  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-24-19.00.txt
672 2018-05-24T19:59:27  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-24-19.00.log.html
673 2018-05-24T19:59:35  *** tryphe_000 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
674 2018-05-24T19:59:39  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: yes. But even there we may want to reuse the primitives...
675 2018-05-24T20:00:06  <jonasschnelli> or maybe its good to use another library to find things we would not find using the same core code
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678 2018-05-24T20:02:00  <jimpo> yeah, I think diversity at the P2P layer is healthy, using the same validation engine
679 2018-05-24T20:02:11  <jimpo> and some can have features requiring additional indexes
680 2018-05-24T20:02:46  <jimpo> speaking of which, what were you saying about the BIP 158 compression ratios, sipa?
681 2018-05-24T20:03:08  <sipa> jimpo: sec
682 2018-05-24T20:04:03  *** nmnkgl has quit IRC
683 2018-05-24T20:04:30  <wumpus> jimpo: rust P2P layer? *ducks*
684 2018-05-24T20:04:38  *** nmnkgl has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
685 2018-05-24T20:04:39  <jimpo> of course
686 2018-05-24T20:04:43  *** promag has quit IRC
687 2018-05-24T20:04:44  <jimpo> :-)
688 2018-05-24T20:06:07  <sipa> jimpo: so say you have a set of N elements
689 2018-05-24T20:06:18  <sipa> (after deduplication)
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691 2018-05-24T20:06:47  <sipa> this means you have a list of N entries, each in range 0..2^20*N-1, whose order does not matter
692 2018-05-24T20:07:06  <sipa> the number of combinations for that is (2^20*N)^N / N!
693 2018-05-24T20:07:39  <sipa> (approximately; this formula ignores that there may be duplicates among those N, but that chance is low)
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696 2018-05-24T20:08:36  <sipa> this means that information theoretically, you need at least log2((2^20*N)^N / N!) bits in total
697 2018-05-24T20:08:47  <sipa> otherwise you couldn't express every combination
698 2018-05-24T20:09:53  <sipa> for N=10000, that number is 214419 bits, or 21.4419 bits per element
699 2018-05-24T20:10:35  <provoostenator> When I do "bitcoin-cli -config=/the/usual/place -datadir=/some/other/place getblockheight"  it creates a folder /some/other/place/wallets
700 2018-05-24T20:10:54  <sipa> jimpo: a GCS implementation will use 21.5819 bits on average
701 2018-05-24T20:11:05  <jimpo> oh, interesting
702 2018-05-24T20:11:06  <provoostenator> Even if the RPC connection fails.
703 2018-05-24T20:11:33  <jimpo> (damn it small graphs on Wolfram Alpha)
704 2018-05-24T20:12:19  <sipa> jimpo: what i don't know is if there's isn't another probabilistic data structure that has a 1/2^P false postive rate which needs less information
705 2018-05-24T20:12:42  <sipa> but at least any construction that follows from compressing a list of N elements in range 0...2^20*N will at least need 21.4419
706 2018-05-24T20:13:29  <jimpo> thanks for the explanation
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708 2018-05-24T20:14:16  <sipa> but this is *really* good
709 2018-05-24T20:14:26  <jimpo> yeah, seems GCS is doing very well
710 2018-05-24T20:14:37  <sipa> less than 1% overhead above the theoretical minimum
711 2018-05-24T20:15:33  <jimpo> I've been thinking a bit about tuning the P value. Kind of unfortunate that it's static.
712 2018-05-24T20:15:44  <sipa> even at just 100 elements, GCS has less than 1% overhead
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715 2018-05-24T20:18:21  <sipa> at a false positive rate of 1/2^10 it's close to 1.5% overhead
716 2018-05-24T20:20:06  <sipa> gmaxwell and i were looking at whether a better custom entropy coder could do better than GCS, but then he pointed out to me that the limit isn't 20 bits per element, and that your numbers looked suspiciously close to the limit already
717 2018-05-24T20:20:43  <jimpo> what is a custom entropy coder?
718 2018-05-24T20:21:02  <sipa> not using golomb-rice coding but something custom that could get us closer to the theoretical limit
719 2018-05-24T20:21:27  <sipa> it's certainly possible with a range coder
720 2018-05-24T20:21:42  <sipa> though that would be complex and computationally expensive
721 2018-05-24T20:22:28  <sipa> and now that it looks like golomb coding is so close to optimal already, it doesn't look worth looking into
722 2018-05-24T20:22:37  <jimpo> out of curiosity, have you looked at PFOR/FastPFOR for integer sequence compression?
723 2018-05-24T20:22:49  <sipa> i have never heard about those
724 2018-05-24T20:22:50  <jimpo> I was experimenting with it yesterday for compression header values
725 2018-05-24T20:23:01  <jimpo> and it gets pretty amazing results
726 2018-05-24T20:25:34  <jimpo> if you take all off the versions in a 3,000 header range in a sequence, and do the same for timestamps, bits, and nonces, it compresses all of them together by ~90%
727 2018-05-24T20:25:36  *** Guest5055 is now known as kakobrekla
728 2018-05-24T20:25:48  <jimpo> can even compress sequences of nonces 75% on average
729 2018-05-24T20:27:50  <echeveria> that seems kind of unlikely.
730 2018-05-24T20:29:10  <jimpo> yeah, that's what I thought. but I tried decompressing some of the ranges and it seems to work?
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733 2018-05-24T20:35:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TronBlack opened pull request #13318: Remove legacy verification (master...Remove-legacy-verification) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13318
734 2018-05-24T20:35:29  <echeveria> lol
735 2018-05-24T20:35:58  <echeveria> what on earth happened there. 30 second old pull request with 2 month old comments.
736 2018-05-24T20:36:17  <harding> echeveria: the comments are on the specific commits, not the PR itself.
737 2018-05-24T20:36:37  <echeveria> ah, github presents that confusingly.
738 2018-05-24T20:39:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TronBlack closed pull request #13318: Remove legacy verification (master...Remove-legacy-verification) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13318
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741 2018-05-24T20:48:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #13319: gui: Backport bech32 checkbox (0.16...Mf1805-016ForBackportGui) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13319
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752 2018-05-24T21:25:39  <phantomcircuit> i've got a reeeeally old wallet
753 2018-05-24T21:25:55  <phantomcircuit> the result of getbalance doesn't match the sum of all amounts in listtransactions "*" 1000000
754 2018-05-24T21:26:03  <phantomcircuit> seems like a bug
755 2018-05-24T21:27:04  <sipa> any unconfirmed transactions/
756 2018-05-24T21:28:28  <phantomcircuit> sipa, nope
757 2018-05-24T21:28:34  *** laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
758 2018-05-24T21:28:58  <phantomcircuit> possibly it's cause it's all the dust that someone was flooding a while ago?
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760 2018-05-24T21:30:24  <sipa> you're calling getbalance, not getbalance "", right/
761 2018-05-24T21:31:48  <sipa> jimpo: it seems PFOR assumes integers are sorted?
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763 2018-05-24T21:32:42  <sipa> oh, or just the benchmark
764 2018-05-24T21:35:13  <phantomcircuit> sipa, im running git master so the accounts stuff has been removed
765 2018-05-24T21:35:19  <phantomcircuit> and im using the multi wallet support
766 2018-05-24T21:35:26  <phantomcircuit> i guess i need to test this on stable
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769 2018-05-24T21:41:14  <phantomcircuit> sipa, hmm listunspent matches getbalance of course
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772 2018-05-24T21:51:00  <phantomcircuit> sipa, that wasn't it
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775 2018-05-24T21:52:41  <phantomcircuit> the sum of the amounts field in listtransactions nominally should match getbalance i believe
776 2018-05-24T21:53:42  <gmaxwell> coinjoins fuxor that no?
777 2018-05-24T21:55:26  <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, shouldn't i dont think
778 2018-05-24T21:56:19  <gmaxwell> when you 'sum amounts' how are you handling fees?
779 2018-05-24T21:56:54  <phantomcircuit> hmm maybe it's that let me check
780 2018-05-24T21:58:43  <phantomcircuit> derp yeah that was it
781 2018-05-24T21:58:52  <gmaxwell> Next customer!
782 2018-05-24T21:59:11  <sipa> queue = rotl(queue, 1)
783 2018-05-24T22:00:00  * echeveria sets mode +b phantomcircuit
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