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   2 2018-05-29T00:01:03  <achow101> jhfrontz: I think it's supposed to be modifying the vm /etc/sudoers file as part of the setup. I believe that is part of whatever vmbuilder does. however I think vmbuilder had an update recently which breaks gitian
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  20 2018-05-29T01:30:29  <achow101> if anyone wants to try gitian building with docker instead of lxc or kvm, I have an experimental branch for that: https://github.com/achow101/gitian-builder/tree/docker
  21 2018-05-29T01:30:51  <achow101> It seems to work, but I don't know if it produces the same binaries yet
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 653 2018-05-29T03:00:10  <achow101> damnit the binaries don't match
 654 2018-05-29T03:10:58  <achow101> oh wait, I built the wrong binaries :/
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 669 2018-05-29T06:16:24  <jonasschnelli> sipa: one thing that stuck with me over night,.. if the Bech32 BCH can detect 4 chars and correct two (length <=89), wouldn't it be trivial to brute-force the eventually present other 2 errors? Brute-force to fit the error-free checksum.
 670 2018-05-29T06:21:43  <sipa> jonasschnelli: i don't understand
 671 2018-05-29T06:22:17  <sipa> it's a very fundamental property that you can only correct half
 672 2018-05-29T06:22:26  <sipa> of what you can detect
 673 2018-05-29T06:23:11  <jonasschnelli> sipa: Okay. But wouldn't you know that there are two other errors (since it can detect 4) and where those errors are (index)?
 674 2018-05-29T06:24:20  <jonasschnelli> I guess I get the error correction right...
 675 2018-05-29T06:25:10  <jonasschnelli> I where under the assumption that if you have a encoded key with 4 errors, it will point out those 4 errors, ... the BCH  correction can fix two errors, so decode again after correction and figure out where the other two error where made....
 676 2018-05-29T06:25:34  <jonasschnelli> (sry, no need for decode again)
 677 2018-05-29T06:27:31  <sipa> jonasschnelli: the point is that there may be multiple ways of making 4 changes to your invalid codeword to turn it into a valid one; but at most one will be the correct one
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 679 2018-05-29T06:28:47  <sipa> if any two code words are at least different in 5 positions (which is the case for bech32), making up to 4 changes to a valid codeword will never result in another valid.codeword, so you'll never fail to detect
 680 2018-05-29T06:29:21  <sipa> however, if 3 errors are made, it may be possible to "correct" it by modifying two other unrelated positions
 681 2018-05-29T06:29:32  <sipa> resulting in a valid, but incorrect codeword
 682 2018-05-29T06:30:47  <jonasschnelli> I'm trying to understand if there is a more "forensic" approach of reconstructing an 4 chars error BCH codeword.. if you have an address (or another validation-indicator) of you now-invalid key, brute-forcing and comparing against your validation-indicator could be possible?
 683 2018-05-29T06:31:27  <jonasschnelli> For keys, error correction could be very cpu-intense IMO
 684 2018-05-29T06:31:53  <sipa> yes, you can list decode
 685 2018-05-29T06:32:04  <sipa> if you accept there are multiple possible decodi gs
 686 2018-05-29T06:32:12  <sipa> and you can tey all of them
 687 2018-05-29T06:32:43  <sipa> what we mean with "error correcting" power is how many errors there can be up to the point where you can uniquely identify the error
 688 2018-05-29T06:32:54  <jonasschnelli> Worst case stupid-dummy correction would brute forcing all 4 error positions with 32^4
 689 2018-05-29T06:32:56  <sipa> you can alwaus go try to make more changes and see if that ends up with valid codes
 690 2018-05-29T06:33:00  <sipa> yes
 691 2018-05-29T06:33:29  <sipa> adding a few checksum characters is generally easier :)
 692 2018-05-29T06:33:38  <jonasschnelli> Yes... I guess so. :)
 693 2018-05-29T06:33:53  <sipa> but if there is a lot of money at stake, you should totally do list decoding
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 695 2018-05-29T06:34:08  <jonasschnelli> This somehow makes me convinced that the Bech32 properties are not utterly bad, maybe feasible for private key encoding.
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 705 2018-05-29T07:21:11  <ken2812221> achow101: I've tested your docker method and got the same binaries. Its setup is easier than Lxc's.
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 711 2018-05-29T07:27:24  <sipa> ken2812221, achow101: you reproduced the same 0.16.1rc1 binaries as others using docker?
 712 2018-05-29T07:29:35  <wumpus> at least all the signatures in the gitian.sigs repository match at this moment
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 714 2018-05-29T07:31:14  <ken2812221> Yes, I built the binaries using both lxc and docker, they are the same.
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 716 2018-05-29T07:32:38  <fanquake> ken2812221 Where is the docker method available?
 717 2018-05-29T07:33:52  <ken2812221> achow101 mentioned that on top, https://github.com/achow101/gitian-builder/tree/docker
 718 2018-05-29T07:34:23  <fanquake> ken2812221 thanks, will take a look
 719 2018-05-29T07:34:24  <wumpus> oh I had to patch gverify to use gpg2 instead of gpg to be able to verify ken2812221's signatures at all
 720 2018-05-29T07:34:34  <wumpus> gpg:                using ECDSA key 0x4B79F986CBDF8736
 721 2018-05-29T07:34:34  <wumpus> gpg: BAD signature from "Chun Kuan Lee(ken2812221) <ken2812221@gmail.com>" [unknown]
 722 2018-05-29T07:34:37  <wumpus> ken2812221: BAD SIGNATURE
 723 2018-05-29T07:34:42  <wumpus> the other ones check out
 724 2018-05-29T07:36:08  <wumpus> (it's a ?bad signature? this doesn't imply that your build differs)
 725 2018-05-29T07:37:34  <wumpus> ken2812221: checking the assert manually - looks like your executables do match, but you need to re-sign it
 726 2018-05-29T07:38:14  <wumpus> rm bitcoin-win-0.16-build.assert.sig && gpg2 --detach-sign bitcoin-win-0.16-build.assert     or something like that
 727 2018-05-29T07:39:32  <wumpus> (but first check if verification fails there too)
 728 2018-05-29T07:40:28  <ken2812221> OK, I'll check it
 729 2018-05-29T07:41:52  <wumpus> (simply "gpg2 bitcoin-win-0.16-build.assert.gpg" in your 0.16.1rc1 directory should do it)
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 733 2018-05-29T07:45:12  <wumpus> (I'm only insisting on the gpg2 thing because of Ubuntu 16.04 - in 18.04, gpg is gpg2 by default,thankfully...)
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 738 2018-05-29T07:53:03  <wumpus> ken2812221: thanks, that fixed it
 739 2018-05-29T07:54:38  <ken2812221> Sorry, maybe I did something wrong with my hardware key before.
 740 2018-05-29T07:56:21  <wumpus> what kind of token do you use that supports ECDSA signing in hardware?
 741 2018-05-29T07:57:45  <wumpus> seems even the most recent yubikey still does only RSA
 742 2018-05-29T07:58:40  <ken2812221> ledger-nano-s
 743 2018-05-29T07:59:29  <wumpus> thanks
 744 2018-05-29T07:59:56  <wumpus> I didn't know that could be used with gpg :)
 745 2018-05-29T08:05:53  <ken2812221> Yes it can. But the client is a third party software.
 746 2018-05-29T08:07:48  <mryandao> would it be realistic to look at an api to integrate hardware wallet usage in Core?
 747 2018-05-29T08:08:01  <mryandao> *designing an api
 748 2018-05-29T08:09:11  <wumpus> though it's nistp256 not secpp256
 749 2018-05-29T08:09:54  <wumpus> ruby is easier than I thought (patches gverify to take an arbitrary verification program) https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/pull/182
 750 2018-05-29T08:10:23  <wumpus> mryandao: to make that feasible such an API should be generic, not 'just for Core'
 751 2018-05-29T08:10:29  <wumpus> mryandao: jonasschnelli has been looking into this
 752 2018-05-29T08:10:46  <jonasschnelli> mryandao: Yes.
 753 2018-05-29T08:11:10  <jonasschnelli> BIP174 is a great basepoint...
 754 2018-05-29T08:11:20  <jonasschnelli> Though its serialization format is not optimized for HWW/MCUs
 755 2018-05-29T08:11:57  <jonasschnelli> For Core&HWW, the question is what standard we would follow... we can't use proprietary vendor specific USB communication
 756 2018-05-29T08:12:07  <jonasschnelli> Ideally it would be similar to how SSH/GPG agents work
 757 2018-05-29T08:12:15  <wumpus> it's kind of frustrating how this is different enough for standard smartcard crypto APIs that it requires something entirely new
 758 2018-05-29T08:12:35  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. Those standard didn't bothered about verification...
 759 2018-05-29T08:12:43  <wumpus> yes, definitely, there would need to be an external driver, and this standard should describe how to communicate with that
 760 2018-05-29T08:12:44  <jonasschnelli> They are happy if the key is on the card...
 761 2018-05-29T08:13:06  <jonasschnelli> Extra driver is something users dislike... thats why I once proposed the URI scheme.
 762 2018-05-29T08:13:11  <wumpus> the details, such as how communication with the device happens, is up to the vendor
 763 2018-05-29T08:13:21  <wumpus> we're not going to do low-level USB stuff in bitcoin core
 764 2018-05-29T08:13:29  <mryandao> isnt there libusb?
 765 2018-05-29T08:13:31  <jonasschnelli> Yes!
 766 2018-05-29T08:13:37  * jonasschnelli stabs mryandao 
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 768 2018-05-29T08:13:50  <wumpus> (nor link against libhid or any other nightmare abominations)
 769 2018-05-29T08:13:57  <jonasschnelli> Core has already too much dependencies...
 770 2018-05-29T08:14:02  <jonasschnelli> What we want is communicate with a "bridge-application"
 771 2018-05-29T08:14:17  <wumpus> "> Extra driver is something users dislike" is there any other realistic option?!
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 773 2018-05-29T08:15:01  <jonasschnelli> URI schemes would allow that an application opens "sign://<data>" where to OS would start the application that have registered sign://
 774 2018-05-29T08:15:07  <wumpus> smartcards, yubikeys etc also have their own driver, it's not like gpg2 includes low-level support for all of them.
 775 2018-05-29T08:15:17  <wumpus> so that's effectively a driver
 776 2018-05-29T08:15:31  <wumpus> what you are documenting is the communication protocol with it, which could use an URI, sure...
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 779 2018-05-29T08:16:02  <jonasschnelli> It would avoid a daemon and it would be portable (probably)
 780 2018-05-29T08:16:21  <wumpus> sure, it could be a process that is launched on demand, it dosn't have to be an always-on daemon
 781 2018-05-29T08:16:28  <mryandao> it wouldn't be that painful to install an agent like gpg i'd imagine
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 783 2018-05-29T08:16:56  <wumpus> I also dislike things that have to run always, especially if it concerns the wallet, you want to be able to remove the device at any time anyway
 784 2018-05-29T08:17:27  <wumpus> on the other hand, to be honest, at this point I'd prefer *any* standard for HW wallets to the jungle there is now, can always optimize the details later
 785 2018-05-29T08:17:30  <mryandao> but the agent that's up 24/7 wouldnt be holding the keys no?
 786 2018-05-29T08:19:14  <wumpus> it could, but for a HSM it wouldn't hold the keys itself, at most identifiers.
 787 2018-05-29T08:20:10  <wumpus> though there could be a agent that uses, say, a CPU secure enclave instead of a real hardware wallet, that's up to the vendor
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 791 2018-05-29T08:22:01  <mryandao> sounds like the painpoints alone warrant a workshop on integration of HSMs with Bitcoin
 792 2018-05-29T08:22:05  <wumpus> (or if, say, TPM3.0 standard would include cryptocurrency wallet support, could use the motherboard TPM module)
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 794 2018-05-29T08:22:57  <wumpus> in any case, the wallet software shouldn't need to care about those details at all
 795 2018-05-29T08:23:32  <mryandao> i thought the community as a whole finds TPMs to be distasteful
 796 2018-05-29T08:27:05  <wumpus> smartcards, security tokens, etc are essentially pluggable TPMs
 797 2018-05-29T08:29:35  <wumpus> and in my opinion there are certainly distasteful uses of them, such as OS vendor lock-in and DRM, but this is getting off topic, I was just illustrating that there is a large range of possibilities.
 798 2018-05-29T08:34:02  <wumpus> < mryandao> sounds like the painpoints alone warrant a workshop on integration of HSMs with Bitcoin <- I agree, it's something that could use more concentrated effort
 799 2018-05-29T08:35:35  <wumpus> I've always been surprised how little the hardware wallets vendors care about this, they just carve out their little space with their own proprietary protocols and software, instead of starting some bitcoin HSM working group
 800 2018-05-29T08:36:13  <wumpus> even if you don't care about "use of Bitcoin Core as wallet" (like Trezor), it seems that other wallets would benefit from the same
 801 2018-05-29T08:36:16  <wumpus> anyhow </soapbox>
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 805 2018-05-29T08:47:13  * sipa hopes bip174 will help
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 811 2018-05-29T09:15:43  * wumpus hopes so too
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 814 2018-05-29T09:50:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] harrymckinnon86 opened pull request #13338: Test (master...test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13338
 815 2018-05-29T09:50:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] harrymckinnon86 closed pull request #13338: Test (master...test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13338
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 877 2018-05-29T12:16:13  <jonasschnelli> roasbeef: have you considered hardware wallet during your aezeed specs? Is scrypt(n=32768, r=8, p=1) something that works on a tiny MCU (like those ones used by Trezor, Ledger, Bitbox)?
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 907 2018-05-29T13:07:16  <promag> thoughts on #13160?
 908 2018-05-29T13:07:19  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13160 | wallet: Unlock spent outputs by promag · Pull Request #13160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 910 2018-05-29T13:12:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a315b79ad2b8...56fe3dc235a0
 911 2018-05-29T13:12:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6d714c3 Pieter Wuille: Make coincontrol use IsSolvable to determine solvability
 912 2018-05-29T13:12:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4e91820 Pieter Wuille: Make IsMine stop distinguishing solvable/unsolvable
 913 2018-05-29T13:12:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b5802a9 Pieter Wuille: Simplify IsMine logic
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 916 2018-05-29T13:13:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13142: Separate IsMine from solvability (master...201804_separate_ismine_solvable) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13142
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 921 2018-05-29T13:25:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/56fe3dc235a0...3fd0c2336a12
 922 2018-05-29T13:25:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 13c3a65 João Barbosa: Qt/Bugfix: fix handling default wallet with no name
 923 2018-05-29T13:25:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3fd0c23 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13273: Qt/Bugfix: fix handling default wallet with no name...
 924 2018-05-29T13:25:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13273: Qt/Bugfix: fix handling default wallet with no name (master...2018/05/loadwallet_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13273
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 928 2018-05-29T13:28:49  <wumpus> promag: lgtm
 929 2018-05-29T13:29:48  <wumpus> promag: so I think removing spent UTXOs from the locked set automatically is a better solution than the other PR, also the code change is cleaner, but it seems not many people weigh in
 930 2018-05-29T13:29:58  <promag> right
 931 2018-05-29T13:30:21  <promag> I also think other should give feedback there
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 933 2018-05-29T13:31:16  <wumpus> I disagree with the opinion in the other PR that yours is 'a breaking change', I mean this is the behavior already, the only change is that the UTXOs don't linger around forever
 934 2018-05-29T13:32:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3fd0c2336a12...70d354131379
 935 2018-05-29T13:32:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fe16dd8 Wladimir J. van der Laan: net: Add option `-enablebip61` to configure sending of BIP61 notifications...
 936 2018-05-29T13:32:27  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 87fe292 Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: Mention disabling BIP61 in bips.md
 937 2018-05-29T13:32:28  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 70d3541 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13134: net: Add option `-enablebip61` to configure sending of BIP61 notifications...
 938 2018-05-29T13:33:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13134: net: Add option `-enablebip61` to configure sending of BIP61 notifications (master...2018_05_optional_bip61) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13134
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 942 2018-05-29T13:46:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #13339: wallet: Replace %w by wallet name in -walletnotify script (master...2018-05-walletnotify) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13339
 943 2018-05-29T13:47:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13281: test: Move linters to test/lint, add readme (master...Mf1805-qaLint) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13281
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 946 2018-05-29T13:51:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #13340: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation (master...move-check-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13340
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 948 2018-05-29T13:52:00  <fanquake> wumpus #13340 is a trivial follow up to fix the doc nit
 949 2018-05-29T13:52:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13340 | doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation by fanquake · Pull Request #13340 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 955 2018-05-29T13:58:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2ac6315f44a8...e08c130c25ed
 956 2018-05-29T13:58:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f44a0eb Jeff Frontz: Ensure gitian-build.sh uses bash...
 957 2018-05-29T13:58:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e08c130 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13320: Ensure gitian-build.sh uses bash...
 958 2018-05-29T13:59:20  <wumpus> fanquake: thanks!
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 960 2018-05-29T14:01:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #13320: Ensure gitian-build.sh uses bash (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13320
 961 2018-05-29T14:03:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e08c130c25ed...3a8e3f480612
 962 2018-05-29T14:03:59  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 93843f6 fanquake: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation
 963 2018-05-29T14:04:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3a8e3f4 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13340: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation...
 964 2018-05-29T14:04:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13340: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation (master...move-check-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13340
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1015 2018-05-29T15:49:56  <jnewbery> wumpus: I'm out for this Thursdays's meeting. Now that 0.16.1rc1 is out and the high priority list is a bit shorter, can we consider adding #13058? It's the next in the dynamic wallet load/unload series.
1016 2018-05-29T15:49:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13058 | [wallet] `createwallet` RPC - create new wallet at runtime by jnewbery · Pull Request #13058 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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1074 2018-05-29T17:00:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] krab closed pull request #12783: macOS: Disable AppNap (master...macos-disable-appnap) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12783
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1078 2018-05-29T17:04:31  <wumpus> jnewbery: sure
1079 2018-05-29T17:05:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] krab reopened pull request #12783: macOS: Disable AppNap (master...macos-disable-appnap) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12783
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1082 2018-05-29T17:06:36  <wumpus> added
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1096 2018-05-29T17:27:18  <promag> wumpus: we could hash(wallet.name) and use that in listwallets, -walletnotify etc..
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1100 2018-05-29T17:39:29  <promag> looks like mempool_persist.py is flaky
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1116 2018-05-29T18:02:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3a8e3f480612...f8a29ca823fb
1117 2018-05-29T18:02:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 59e9688 Chun Kuan Lee: Travis: Build tests on Ubuntu 18.04 with docker
1118 2018-05-29T18:02:47  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f8a29ca Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13215: Travis: Build tests on Ubuntu 18.04 with docker...
1119 2018-05-29T18:03:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13215: Travis: Build tests on Ubuntu 18.04 with docker (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13215
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1170 2018-05-29T19:11:00  <roasbeef> jonasschnelli: likely to high of params (actually a real kdf) to be feasible on hardware wallets, idea was to add an additional external version w/ lighter weight params
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1172 2018-05-29T19:25:08  <jonasschnelli> roasbeef: yeah. real KDF for HWW is hard. Especially memory based like scrypt
1173 2018-05-29T19:25:36  <jonasschnelli> I just tested PBKDF with 20k rounds on a Bitbox. Takes 30 seconds
1174 2018-05-29T19:26:04  <jonasschnelli> acceptable IMO for seed and recovery... but not for a device PIN KDF.
1175 2018-05-29T19:26:36  <sipa> outsourcable hardening would be nice
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1177 2018-05-29T19:27:12  <jonasschnelli> sipa: yes. but imo that concept needs to be specified and analysed further more
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1179 2018-05-29T19:28:39  <sipa> absolutely
1180 2018-05-29T19:28:51  <jonasschnelli> I think it's acceptable to wait 30s on a HWW during encrypted seed backup (seed with optional encryption) as well as during a wallet restore
1181 2018-05-29T19:29:41  <jonasschnelli> 30s PBKDF results in acceptable 40ms on my Intel corei7
1182 2018-05-29T19:30:15  <jonasschnelli> optional, the rounds could be flexible and make it into the seed serialization format
1183 2018-05-29T19:30:45  <jonasschnelli> wait longer == better KDF / brute force / wordlist resistance
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1192 2018-05-29T20:21:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 closed pull request #13289: [Qt] Re-setup args after translator setup to translate help text (master...qt-help-translations) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13289
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