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  5 2018-05-31T00:37:49  <MarcoFalke> sipa: Yes, see #13171
  6 2018-05-31T00:37:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13171 | [WIP] Change gitian-descriptors to use bionic instead by ken2812221 · Pull Request #13171 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
  7 2018-05-31T00:38:05  <sipa> ah, yes!
  8 2018-05-31T00:38:07  <sipa> thanks
  9 2018-05-31T00:38:13  <sipa> so, c++14 soon? ;)
 10 2018-05-31T00:38:30  <sipa> i'll bring it up in the meeting
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 38 2018-05-31T04:45:52  * kallewoof feels the need to to read up on what's new in c++14
 39 2018-05-31T04:57:32  *** bitconner has quit IRC
 40 2018-05-31T04:58:46  <mryandao> looking at removing boost::chronos, would there be any downsides to unifying all the usage of GetTimeMillis/Micros to just std::chronos::nanoseconds instead?
 41 2018-05-31T04:59:29  <mryandao> and also changing int64_t types for time to std::chronos::nanoseconds for better semantics
 42 2018-05-31T05:01:44  <mryandao> in the TODO, it did ask for a typesafe type, so I'm guessing the usage of chronos::nanoseconds would kill all birds in 1 stone?
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 45 2018-05-31T05:11:02  <sipa> kallewoof: not all that much; c++14 is mostly seen as a small fixup/extension of the things added in 11
 46 2018-05-31T05:11:14  <sipa> better constexpr, better auto, better lambdas
 47 2018-05-31T05:12:50  *** Sinclair_ has quit IRC
 48 2018-05-31T05:25:28  <kallewoof> sipa: Yeah I just read through a summary. Not really important but 0b is nice :)
 49 2018-05-31T05:25:48  <kallewoof> And better auto/lambda looks nice yeah.
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 56 2018-05-31T06:03:32  <fanquake> mryandao If you haven't see already cfields has been working on that as well https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9566
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 58 2018-05-31T06:06:44  <fanquake> wumpus very trendy code :p
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 61 2018-05-31T06:13:47  <wumpus> fanquake: thanks :p
 62 2018-05-31T06:14:24  *** wumpus sets mode: -b *!~arowser@
 63 2018-05-31T06:14:30  <wumpus> (let's try again...)
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 65 2018-05-31T06:18:18  <wumpus> #13337 is strange, did OpenBSD 5.3 really break grep somehow?
 66 2018-05-31T06:18:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13337 | OpenBSD 6.3 build: test/arith_uint256_tests.cpp complains about missing argument · Issue #13337 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 67 2018-05-31T06:18:32  <wumpus> s/5.3/6.3
 68 2018-05-31T06:19:24  <wumpus> kallewoof feels the need to to read up on what's new in c++14 <- I'm not over the c++11 future-shock yet
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 71 2018-05-31T06:21:07  <sipa> wumpus: ha
 72 2018-05-31T06:21:14  <wumpus> sipa: to be serious, I guess the main thing I'd like to know is - how does this shift the set of linux distributions it's possible to build on. The embedded developer in me balks a bit at requiring ever more recent compilers.
 73 2018-05-31T06:21:22  <fanquake> wumpus I thought practicalswift had tested on 6.3, #13294, thought they might have picked that up?
 74 2018-05-31T06:21:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13294 | Fix compiler warnings emitted when compiling under stock OpenBSD 6.3 by practicalswift · Pull Request #13294 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 75 2018-05-31T06:21:53  <fanquake> Also looks like arowser_ still needs blocking
 76 2018-05-31T06:22:21  <sipa> wumpus: gcc 5 or clang 3.4, which is in ubuntu 16.04
 77 2018-05-31T06:22:27  <mryandao> there's a ##fix_your_connection ban redirection so the user gets informed to fix their connection
 78 2018-05-31T06:22:40  <mryandao> the mods in #bitcoin do that.
 79 2018-05-31T06:22:50  <wumpus> sipa: but what about debian :(
 80 2018-05-31T06:22:52  <sipa> wumpus: on the other hand - c++14 doesn't add all that much either
 81 2018-05-31T06:23:34  <wumpus> sipa: something we could do that is almost completely uncontroversial is: use c++14 features when avilable, fall back to something else otherwise
 82 2018-05-31T06:23:36  <sipa> sigh... debian only has gcc 5 in unstande :(
 83 2018-05-31T06:23:41  <sipa> *unstable
 84 2018-05-31T06:23:46  <wumpus> not *require* it
 85 2018-05-31T06:24:08  <wumpus> could always drop support for c++11 only compilers at some point later
 86 2018-05-31T06:24:08  <sipa> debian jessie has clang 3.4 though
 87 2018-05-31T06:24:55  <wumpus> and could be as simple as removing some ifdef-ed code
 88 2018-05-31T06:25:22  <wumpus> fanquake: we should ask him if he ran 'gmake check'
 89 2018-05-31T06:25:37  <sipa> wumpus: seems almost not worth it
 90 2018-05-31T06:25:49  <fanquake> wumpus Can do
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 93 2018-05-31T06:28:15  <wumpus> bumping the required compiler versions should have a very good motivation, such as 'clearly safer, easier to review code', 'potential better perfromance'. for c++11 this was clear at least.
 94 2018-05-31T06:28:40  <sipa> yes, i agree - i didn't expect it would hurt debian so much
 95 2018-05-31T06:28:42  *** wumpus sets mode: +b *!~arowser@
 96 2018-05-31T06:28:55  <fanquake> Have we ever bumped before. I think we've just defined minimums?
 97 2018-05-31T06:29:02  <fanquake> *fairly recently
 98 2018-05-31T06:29:19  <sipa> the switch to c++11 made us require gcc 4.7
 99 2018-05-31T06:30:19  <wumpus> yep, and there were complaints about users about that
100 2018-05-31T06:30:20  <fanquake> 4.8+ i think?
101 2018-05-31T06:30:23  <wumpus> from users
102 2018-05-31T06:30:58  <fanquake> #11732
103 2018-05-31T06:30:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11732 | RFC: bump GCC requirement to 4.8 · Issue #11732 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
104 2018-05-31T06:31:08  <sipa> i think the most useful things in c++14 for us may be support for shared_lock
105 2018-05-31T06:32:32  <sipa> oh, no, that's c++17
106 2018-05-31T06:32:33  <sipa> pff :)
107 2018-05-31T06:33:02  <sipa> wikipedia is wrong!
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109 2018-05-31T06:34:30  <jonasschnelli> sipa: re https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12196#discussion_r189396442, did you accidentally left away pubkeys for the API? We have to derive various script types anyways with xpubs, right?
110 2018-05-31T06:35:20  <sipa> jonasschnelli: pubkeys are not scripts
111 2018-05-31T06:35:27  <sipa> so no
112 2018-05-31T06:35:37  <jonasschnelli> But how would xpubs be different?
113 2018-05-31T06:35:54  <jonasschnelli> If we accept xpubs, whats the rational not not accept pubkeys?
114 2018-05-31T06:36:00  <sipa> ah, sorry
115 2018-05-31T06:36:13  <jonasschnelli> Either we derive different script types or not I guess
116 2018-05-31T06:36:15  <sipa> you could have xpub+derivation type, or pub+derivation type, or script, or address
117 2018-05-31T06:36:41  <jonasschnelli> so avoid to derive various types,... yeah. makes sense.
118 2018-05-31T06:36:52  <jonasschnelli> Could accept n derivation types per pubkey
119 2018-05-31T06:36:52  <sipa> jonasschnelli: you want me to write up a prototype of what that could look like?
120 2018-05-31T06:36:57  <sipa> i've been wanting to do that for a while
121 2018-05-31T06:37:12  <jonasschnelli> sipa: Please do if you want,.. i'm currently rewriting the API
122 2018-05-31T06:39:15  <sipa> wumpus: ah, i'm wrong... c++14 has shared_lock and shared_timed_mutex; c++17 adds shared_mutex
123 2018-05-31T06:39:36  <jonasschnelli> I would say [ {"address": <addr>, "pubkey" : { "pubkey" : <pubkey>, "derivation": ["P2PKH", "P2SH-P2WPKH", ...]}, "script" : <script>, "xpub" : { "xpub" : <xpub>,  "derivation":  [], "lookupwindow": [0, 1000]}, [...]}
124 2018-05-31T06:39:49  <jonasschnelli> (hard to read JSON on IRC)
125 2018-05-31T06:40:30  <sipa> jonasschnelli: also needs birthdate, ranges, ...
126 2018-05-31T06:40:57  <wumpus> sipa: it's like boost::shared_mutex?
127 2018-05-31T06:41:02  <sipa> wumpus: yup
128 2018-05-31T06:41:03  <jonasschnelli> sipa: why birthdate? what ranges? (for other purposes then scantxoutset)?
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130 2018-05-31T06:41:30  <sipa> jonasschnelli: i guess for scantxoutset birthdates don't matter, but for the wallet they will :)
131 2018-05-31T06:41:50  <jonasschnelli> Yes. Ah. I see. You want to specify a generic format.
132 2018-05-31T06:42:14  <sipa> jonasschnelli: my goal is making the entire wallet a list of such records (plus private keys, labels) and cached data (transactions, keypools)
133 2018-05-31T06:42:19  <jonasschnelli> sipa: do you mean the xpub derive range with "ranges"?
134 2018-05-31T06:42:27  <sipa> jonasschnelli: yes
135 2018-05-31T06:42:42  <jonasschnelli> okay. The JSON above has the "loopupwindow" 2 size array.
136 2018-05-31T06:43:42  <jonasschnelli> Maybe add something to you gist and we can build new RPC APIs (and migrate old ones if possible) according that parameter object.
137 2018-05-31T06:43:55  <sipa> will do tomorrow
138 2018-05-31T06:43:56  <wumpus> sipa: right, that's useful, didn't know we were already using it in sigcache
139 2018-05-31T06:44:01  <jonasschnelli> sure. Thanks!
140 2018-05-31T06:47:10  <sipa> wumpus: but not worth breaking building on debian for
141 2018-05-31T06:48:03  <wumpus> sipa: I agree. We can already use it from boost. If this turns out to be ever the last point hinging us to boost::thread we could make an optional wrapper allowing boost-less build with a c++14 supporting compiler.
142 2018-05-31T06:48:13  <sipa> oh, i misread
143 2018-05-31T06:48:19  <sipa> debian stable has gcc 6
144 2018-05-31T06:49:14  <wumpus> stable has gcc 6? that sounds unlikely
145 2018-05-31T06:49:27  <sipa> https://packages.debian.org/stretch/gcc-6
146 2018-05-31T06:50:13  <wumpus> I see. Now I'm confused.
147 2018-05-31T06:50:48  <sipa> i was confused by https://packages.debian.org/stretch/gcc having prefix "4:"
148 2018-05-31T06:50:50  <wumpus> with debian stable having a more recent compiler than even ubuntu 16.04
149 2018-05-31T06:51:23  <sipa> debian stable was released in june 2017
150 2018-05-31T06:51:41  <sipa> which is a year after ubuntu 16.04
151 2018-05-31T06:53:02  <sipa> jessie, the previous stable has gcc 4.9
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153 2018-05-31T06:53:42  <wumpus> so a distortion caused by the fact that debian stable was branched relatively recently - interesting, wel lthat seems to remove the biggest obstacle then
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155 2018-05-31T06:57:25  <wumpus> I don't think I have any others. Let's discuss this at the meeting anyway (I'm interested in hearing cfields's opinion on this too)
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157 2018-05-31T07:02:25  <fanquake> cfields likely to tell us why it can't happen for another few years heh
158 2018-05-31T07:02:34  <Randolf> I'm using Ubuntu 18.04 LTS on some systems already.  Might it have a more updated compiler?  Or is it the same as 16.04?
159 2018-05-31T07:04:10  <wumpus> fanquake: cfields and me take turns at being bad cop
160 2018-05-31T07:05:04  <wumpus> Randolf: 16.04 has "gcc (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.9) 5.4.0 20160609", 18.04 has "gcc (Ubuntu 7.3.0-16ubuntu3) 7.3.0"
161 2018-05-31T07:05:53  <wumpus> FreeBSD 11.1 has "FreeBSD clang version 4.0.0 (tags/RELEASE_400/final 297347) (based on LLVM 4.0.0)" that seems like more of a problem
162 2018-05-31T07:06:39  <wumpus> OpenBSD 5.2 too "OpenBSD clang version 4.0.0 (tags/RELEASE_400/final) (based on LLVM 4.0.0)". What is it with BSDs and their clang4 obessesion.
163 2018-05-31T07:08:10  <sipa> clang4 has c++14
164 2018-05-31T07:08:11  <wumpus> <sipa> wumpus: gcc 5 or clang 3.4    ohh
165 2018-05-31T07:08:14  <wumpus> right.
166 2018-05-31T07:08:36  <sipa> also, fwiw, our code compiles with c++14 without changes (haven't tested)
167 2018-05-31T07:08:56  <wumpus> c++14 is consistently older, version-wise, than I expect
168 2018-05-31T07:09:32  <sipa> so c++11 took ages after standardization before it was available in compilers
169 2018-05-31T07:09:45  <sipa> c++14 was a small change, and pretty much implemented before the spec was published
170 2018-05-31T07:11:10  <wumpus> it shows
171 2018-05-31T07:11:39  <sipa> 18 months between c++11 published and gcc fully supporting it
172 2018-05-31T07:12:03  <sipa> 4 months between c++14 published and gcc fully supporting it
173 2018-05-31T07:12:59  <sipa> c++17 will take longer again (it's already 5 months, and gcc only has experimental support)
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179 2018-05-31T07:23:16  <fanquake> Decent speedups in #13309. Few ACKs if you want to take a look wumpus
180 2018-05-31T07:23:18  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13309 | Directly operate with CMutableTransaction in SignSignature by martinus · Pull Request #13309 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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182 2018-05-31T07:31:42  <wumpus> fanquake: yes I need to have a look at that one, it seemed quite tricky,but agree it's probably worth it
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184 2018-05-31T07:32:57  <wumpus> sipa: running c++14 experiments, on clang 7.0 the build passes with -std=c++14, no changes necessary
185 2018-05-31T07:34:55  <fanquake> At least we'd only have to bump Clang to 3.4 (from 3.3) for ++14 support
186 2018-05-31T07:35:26  <wumpus> (that's my straight-from-git build environment though, let's wait for openbsd clang4 results...)
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188 2018-05-31T07:47:18  <wumpus> (passed too)
189 2018-05-31T07:49:15  <wumpus> fanquake: I wonder if we can get anyone to test with clang/llvm 3.4
190 2018-05-31T07:49:31  <wumpus> I don't seem to have that installed anywhere
191 2018-05-31T07:50:56  <wumpus> in an case, this is the trivial build system patch for building with c++14: https://gist.github.com/laanwj/e84d17412a5811ef4b7bd7512218c01a
192 2018-05-31T07:52:07  <wumpus> building with c++17 does give some errors, last time I tried, although if that support is still experimental it's not clear that should be our problem or the compiler's
193 2018-05-31T07:52:58  <sipa> configure or compile errors?
194 2018-05-31T07:53:11  <sipa> that CXX version script does not support c++17 yet
195 2018-05-31T07:53:37  <wumpus> I had updated that - yes, compile errors
196 2018-05-31T07:59:08  <wumpus> some fairly silly stuff, I can't find the patch stack right now
197 2018-05-31T08:02:46  <sipa> well, we're not going to adopt c++17 so who cares
198 2018-05-31T08:03:40  <wumpus> exactly
199 2018-05-31T08:03:58  <fanquake> fwiw That's the first error error I see passing in c++17 https://gist.github.com/fanquake/2342c585c43f945428d0f20eb1d8a1d6
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201 2018-05-31T08:05:19  <wumpus> that random_shuffle wasn't even there yet when experimented with c++17 last year
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203 2018-05-31T08:06:52  <fanquake> Looks like it was deprecated, in c++ 14, must have been removed in ++17
204 2018-05-31T08:07:31  <wumpus> tfw you learn that a function exists in the C++ library and it's already deprecated
205 2018-05-31T08:12:31  <wumpus> at least it's not as bad as with rust
206 2018-05-31T08:15:52  <wumpus> (or *cringe* swift... nice that you just wrote this software, here's a new major release of your language, you can basically just throw away everything and start over)
207 2018-05-31T08:16:08  <fanquake> wumpus your patch + stdcxx m4 changes all that was required to make check with c++14
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209 2018-05-31T08:17:05  <fanquake> Don't bring up swift here, btc dev is one place I don't have to deal with that :p
210 2018-05-31T08:17:17  <wumpus> sorry
211 2018-05-31T08:18:54  <wumpus> just trying to put c++ in perspective, that the process they follow for changes is quite reasonable
212 2018-05-31T08:21:24  <fanquake> Reasonable, but is it really "disruptive/10x/webscale" enough?
213 2018-05-31T08:22:40  <sipa> we need an deep learning blockchain in the cloud
214 2018-05-31T08:23:09  <wumpus> fanquake: hah, the kind of words that make you know for sure you want to avoid something
215 2018-05-31T08:24:11  <wumpus> machine learning developments are going too fast, we need a block chain to anchor them down and make them less efficient
216 2018-05-31T08:25:26  <fanquake> They'd just figure out how to escape the blockchain. Probably solve the oracle problem while they are at it.
217 2018-05-31T08:27:23  <wumpus> heh, right, just a matter of the right incentives. If they figure out how to escape the blockchain so we can follow :)
218 2018-05-31T08:32:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #13355: Fix "gmake check" under OpenBSD 6.3 (probably *BSD): Avoid using GNU grep specific regexp handling (master...openbsd-gmake-check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13355
219 2018-05-31T08:34:14  <wumpus> fanquake: unless I've somehow messed up my methodology, #13309 takes test_bitcoin from 1m10.831s to 0m39.323s here
220 2018-05-31T08:34:18  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13309 | Directly operate with CMutableTransaction in SignSignature by martinus · Pull Request #13309 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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222 2018-05-31T08:34:59  <fanquake> wumpus isn't that what is expected?
223 2018-05-31T08:35:12  <fanquake> Or just more speed up than you thought?
224 2018-05-31T08:35:27  <wumpus> it's more than I thought
225 2018-05-31T08:35:48  <sipa> "sorry, NACK, this makes the tests too fast"
226 2018-05-31T08:36:28  <wumpus> exactly :)
227 2018-05-31T08:37:50  <wumpus> just like with cryptography, tests need to be slow to convince it's being done properly
228 2018-05-31T08:40:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/472fe8a2ce9f...36fc8052f62b
229 2018-05-31T08:40:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6b8b63a Martin Ankerl: Generic TransactionSignatureCreator works with both CTransaction and CMutableTransaction...
230 2018-05-31T08:40:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 36fc805 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13309: Directly operate with CMutableTransaction in SignSignature...
231 2018-05-31T08:41:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13309: Directly operate with CMutableTransaction in SignSignature (master...SignSignature-with-CMutableTransaction) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13309
232 2018-05-31T08:47:46  <fanquake> Opened #13356 for some C++14 thoughts. Will add some more info shortly.
233 2018-05-31T08:47:47  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13356 | RFC: C++14 Requirement · Issue #13356 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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236 2018-05-31T08:51:27  <wumpus> fanquake: awesome!
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238 2018-05-31T08:55:54  <wumpus> it's really useful to create tracking issues for things like this
239 2018-05-31T08:57:58  <fanquake> Yes, easy for useful info to get lost in multiple different discussions
240 2018-05-31T08:58:24  <fanquake> pkg_add autoconf
241 2018-05-31T08:58:34  <wumpus> looks like wikipedia has an ok overview of what is new in c++14, maybe useful to link too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B14, and mention that we already use the shared mutex
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243 2018-05-31T09:03:49  <fanquake> Added. Will link to code soon.
244 2018-05-31T09:09:09  <wumpus> I vaguely remember there are plans to use more shared mutexes in more places, from BlueMatt probably
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246 2018-05-31T09:12:52  <wumpus> "Tuple addressing via type" some of these have a high risk of obfuscating code when used irresponsibly
247 2018-05-31T09:17:07  <wumpus> std::exchange and std::make_unique seem nice, small things
248 2018-05-31T09:17:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/36fc8052f62b...24f70118414f
249 2018-05-31T09:17:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 493a166 Wladimir J. van der Laan: bench: Don't return a bool from main...
250 2018-05-31T09:17:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 24f7011 MarcoFalke: Merge #13349: bench: Don't return a bool from main...
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252 2018-05-31T09:18:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13349: bench: Don't return a bool from main (master...2017_05_bench_warning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13349
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255 2018-05-31T09:23:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/24f70118414f...87a9d03c0c1e
256 2018-05-31T09:23:55  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa2d83e MarcoFalke: travis: Skip cache for lint stage
257 2018-05-31T09:23:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 87a9d03 MarcoFalke: Merge #13347: travis: Skip cache for lint stage...
258 2018-05-31T09:24:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13347: travis: Skip cache for lint stage (master...Mf1806-travisLintNoCache) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13347
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275 2018-05-31T11:16:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jl2012 opened pull request #13357: Accurately determine the use of SIGHASH_SINGLE in signing (master...signsingle) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13357
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303 2018-05-31T14:18:35  <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: I can see my review on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12196/files#diff-2497f9b95fc934233daa9cb4a45a9df2
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310 2018-05-31T15:08:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #13359: wallet: Directly operate with CMutableTransaction (master...Mf1806-avoidTxConstuctor) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13359
311 2018-05-31T15:13:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jl2012 opened pull request #13360: [Policy] Reject SIGHASH_SINGLE with output out of bound (master...insecure_single) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13360
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319 2018-05-31T15:40:32  <Chris_Stewart_5> can miners set their own sequence number in their coinbase input?
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324 2018-05-31T15:48:49  <echeveria> Chris_Stewart_5: yes, there's no restriction on that.
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331 2018-05-31T16:06:53  <wumpus> Chris_Stewart_5: there's no requirement on the coinbase data except for BIP34 afaik
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334 2018-05-31T16:08:18  <Chris_Stewart_5> Thanks guys
335 2018-05-31T16:10:41  <sipa> also the length of the coinbase scriptSig is between 2 and 100 bytes
336 2018-05-31T16:10:59  <sipa> that's also a consensus rule; no idea why it's there
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339 2018-05-31T16:12:02  <wumpus> oh!
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343 2018-05-31T16:17:07  <echeveria>  sipa isn't it more than 2 now with BIP30?
344 2018-05-31T16:17:30  <TheCharlatan>  How is glibc, for example libm.so, back-compatibility for a normal 64bit Linux binary achieved, if the gitian builder is updated to Ubuntu 18.04? A standard 64 bit static build on 18.04 for example does not seem compatible with anything below.
345 2018-05-31T16:19:43  <cfields> TheCharlatan: symbols must be added for glibc funtions introduced since our minimum version
346 2018-05-31T16:24:23  <sipa> echeveria: you mean BIP34 i assume; yes, except for the first few blocks
347 2018-05-31T16:25:27  <wumpus> TheCharlatan: indeed, see src/compat/glibc_compat.cpp
348 2018-05-31T16:26:35  <wumpus> it's a matter of not using symbols that have been defined since, we have a symbol checker script under contrib/devtools to check that
349 2018-05-31T16:26:57  <wumpus> (glibc symbols are versioned)
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354 2018-05-31T16:41:06  <TheCharlatan> so future gitian Bionic builds will all have to be configure with --enable-glibc-back-compat ?
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359 2018-05-31T16:55:18  <wumpus> all linux gitian builds have always been built with thta
360 2018-05-31T16:56:31  <wumpus> (well, to be correct, since 0.9.2)
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364 2018-05-31T17:15:46  <wumpus> the gitian linux build even calls the symbol checker and fails if there are unexpected symbols
365 2018-05-31T17:16:06  <wumpus> it should be pretty fool-proof
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382 2018-05-31T18:14:15  <jonasschnelli> Thanks MarcoFalke, found it
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402 2018-05-31T19:01:20  * jonasschnelli *cough* 
403 2018-05-31T19:01:50  <luke-jr> don't die on us, jonasschnelli
404 2018-05-31T19:01:54  * sipa *sneeze*
405 2018-05-31T19:02:10  <jonasschnelli> heh.. meeting?
406 2018-05-31T19:02:19  <wumpus> #startmeeting
407 2018-05-31T19:02:19  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu May 31 19:02:19 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
408 2018-05-31T19:02:19  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
409 2018-05-31T19:02:28  <jonasschnelli> hi
410 2018-05-31T19:02:36  <promag> hi
411 2018-05-31T19:02:40  <cfields> hi
412 2018-05-31T19:02:47  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark mi
413 2018-05-31T19:02:51  <wumpus> chagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
414 2018-05-31T19:03:35  <wumpus> proposed topics?
415 2018-05-31T19:04:45  <sipa> c++14
416 2018-05-31T19:04:56  <kanzure> hi.
417 2018-05-31T19:05:00  <sipa> high-priority prs
418 2018-05-31T19:05:02  <MarcoFalke> Is the rc1 out with an email?
419 2018-05-31T19:05:11  <cfields> MarcoFalke: yes
420 2018-05-31T19:05:14  <wumpus> I have one of my own: new "addr" P2P message to support 256-bit addresses, for TorV3 and I2P
421 2018-05-31T19:05:41  <wumpus> yes, rc1 is out with email to bitcoin-core-dev mailing list
422 2018-05-31T19:06:05  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
423 2018-05-31T19:06:29  <sipa> i'd like #13026 on the list
424 2018-05-31T19:06:31  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13026 | Fix include comment in src/interfaces/wallet.h by promag · Pull Request #13026 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
425 2018-05-31T19:06:32  <sipa> eh
426 2018-05-31T19:06:36  <sipa> #13062
427 2018-05-31T19:06:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13062 | Make script interpreter independent from storage type CScript by sipa · Pull Request #13062 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
428 2018-05-31T19:06:40  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
429 2018-05-31T19:07:08  <wumpus> sipa: added
430 2018-05-31T19:07:12  <sipa> dank
431 2018-05-31T19:07:24  <jonasschnelli> +e
432 2018-05-31T19:07:38  <wumpus> anything/anyone else?
433 2018-05-31T19:07:53  <promag> #13111
434 2018-05-31T19:07:55  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13111 | Add unloadwallet RPC by promag · Pull Request #13111 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
435 2018-05-31T19:07:56  <promag> please
436 2018-05-31T19:08:12  <wumpus> ok
437 2018-05-31T19:08:18  <promag> 1 per developer right?
438 2018-05-31T19:08:18  <luke-jr> I'm trying to rebase rwconf today
439 2018-05-31T19:08:22  <wumpus> promag: yes
440 2018-05-31T19:08:30  <luke-jr> that seems like it's desirable, so we can get the GUI pruning in
441 2018-05-31T19:08:44  <jonasschnelli> Thanks luke-jr
442 2018-05-31T19:08:51  <wumpus> luke-jr: nice
443 2018-05-31T19:09:11  <luke-jr> #11082 IIRC
444 2018-05-31T19:09:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11082 | Add new bitcoin_rw.conf file that is used for settings modified by this software itself by luke-jr · Pull Request #11082 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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446 2018-05-31T19:09:37  <jonasschnelli> #13058 is a quick review (in high prio), has already two tested ACKs. Plz anyone.
447 2018-05-31T19:09:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13058 | [wallet] `createwallet` RPC - create new wallet at runtime by jnewbery · Pull Request #13058 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
448 2018-05-31T19:09:54  <jonasschnelli> This opens the door for a lot of things
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452 2018-05-31T19:11:25  <wumpus> luke-jr: yes, that one needs rebase
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454 2018-05-31T19:12:06  <wumpus> but added, also jnewbery's 13058
455 2018-05-31T19:12:17  <wumpus> I think that's enough for this week :)
456 2018-05-31T19:12:37  <wumpus> #topic C++14 (sipa)
457 2018-05-31T19:12:40  <jonasschnelli> 13058 is already there.. just wanted to make people aware that its a easy review
458 2018-05-31T19:13:35  <sipa> given that travis, and soon gitian, will be built on bionic, that may open the door to using more modern compilers, which support c++14
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460 2018-05-31T19:13:45  <sipa> gcc 5 and clang 3.4 fully implement it
461 2018-05-31T19:14:06  <sipa> debian stable and ubuntu 16.04+ have gcc 5 - though as luke-jr points out, RHEL does not yet
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463 2018-05-31T19:14:14  <wumpus> ref: #13356, as well as earlier discussion on IRC today
464 2018-05-31T19:14:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13356 | RFC: C++14 Requirement · Issue #13356 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
465 2018-05-31T19:14:19  <gmaxwell> Any idea when RHEL will?
466 2018-05-31T19:14:27  <sipa> RHEL 8 will ship with GCC 7
467 2018-05-31T19:14:35  <sipa> but when...?
468 2018-05-31T19:14:39  <gmaxwell> I mean we basically have a half year lag on major versions...
469 2018-05-31T19:14:56  <wumpus> yes so this would be 0.18 at soonest
470 2018-05-31T19:15:07  <MarcoFalke> Agree with wumpus
471 2018-05-31T19:15:09  <sipa> yeah, true - which would be released... march 2019?
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473 2018-05-31T19:15:57  <wumpus> sipa: yes. that's the 0.17 planned release date + 6 months
474 2018-05-31T19:16:13  <sipa> by that time probably most distro limitation concerns will have disappeared
475 2018-05-31T19:16:14  <gmaxwell> also, whats in RHEL7 ? does it support enough of C++14 to cover the features we want?
476 2018-05-31T19:16:34  <sipa> gmaxwell: RHEL7 has gcc 4.9... which barely supports c++11
477 2018-05-31T19:17:13  <cfields> looks like 4.9 doesn't have relaxed constexpr, which is one of the big features
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479 2018-05-31T19:17:27  <cfields> generally though, +1 for c++14 as soon as reasonably possible. It's mostly a cleanup of c++11, and used for development of lots of dev tools themselves. Also the default now for gcc/clang.
480 2018-05-31T19:17:39  <wumpus> yep
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482 2018-05-31T19:18:17  <ajtowns[m]> Ugh, did lightningbot die on me?
483 2018-05-31T19:18:30  <wumpus> ajtowns[m]: don't die on us during the meeting!
484 2018-05-31T19:19:11  <luke-jr> wumpus: (re rwconf, I'll ping you after I rebase it for the flag)
485 2018-05-31T19:19:30  <wumpus> ok, so I think everyone agrees C++14 is a good thing for 0.18 (given RHEL at the time)?
486 2018-05-31T19:20:05  <gmaxwell> I think we saw with the move to C++11 that basically people seemed to fall into two groups: No problem (e.g. they'd upgrade or use binaryies compiled on another system), or completely unreasonable and basically looking for an excuse to not run newer software.
487 2018-05-31T19:20:42  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, that was after waiting for C++11 to be reasonably available ofc
488 2018-05-31T19:20:44  <ajtowns[m]> No seems like matrix is just not seeing everything so flowing the meeting on my phone will be hopeless :(
489 2018-05-31T19:20:49  <wumpus> yes, I was especially worried about debian stable, but apparently that's no problem this time
490 2018-05-31T19:21:04  <luke-jr> btw, should we concern with CentOS or other RHEL respins?
491 2018-05-31T19:21:16  <luke-jr> if RHEL 8 is just barely out, they might lag..
492 2018-05-31T19:21:25  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yes but even where it wasn't most people just solved it with binaries built on another system.
493 2018-05-31T19:21:32  <cfields> gmaxwell: the second group also included many who refused to _run_ a c++11 binary, despite -static-libstdc++ negating abi issues.
494 2018-05-31T19:21:47  <wumpus> debian stable has gcc *6* which is very good
495 2018-05-31T19:22:02  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'm not sure that's viable for GUI
496 2018-05-31T19:22:16  <BlueMatt> wait, when does previous rhel stop getting support?
497 2018-05-31T19:22:18  <wumpus> 08:49 < sipa> https://packages.debian.org/stretch/gcc-6
498 2018-05-31T19:22:26  <luke-jr> BlueMatt: a long long time AFAIK
499 2018-05-31T19:22:30  <BlueMatt> I dont think we can force people to upgrade, though I also doubt we have almost any rhel users
500 2018-05-31T19:22:51  <luke-jr> BlueMatt: even RHEL 5 from 2007 still has support
501 2018-05-31T19:23:01  <BlueMatt> how long is opensuse supported?
502 2018-05-31T19:23:02  <wumpus> luke-jr: -static-libstdc++ works fine if you link qt statically as well.
503 2018-05-31T19:23:06  <BlueMatt> we may actually have opensuse users
504 2018-05-31T19:23:11  <wumpus> luke-jr: (which is the default for depends builds)
505 2018-05-31T19:23:16  <luke-jr> wumpus: but that breaks platform plugins?
506 2018-05-31T19:23:21  <wumpus> luke-jr: who cares
507 2018-05-31T19:23:45  <wumpus> luke-jr: we already ignore this, with building gitian qt executables statically against qt
508 2018-05-31T19:24:04  <luke-jr> but people shouldn't be using those ideally
509 2018-05-31T19:24:23  <luke-jr> BlueMatt: RHEL 5 support ends in 2020
510 2018-05-31T19:24:31  <gmaxwell> when we made the c++11 upgrade anyone I encountered using old RHEL just used binaries built elsewhere.
511 2018-05-31T19:24:33  <wumpus> luke-jr: and anyhow the only major user of that was ubuntu unity, which supported qt4 well only...
512 2018-05-31T19:24:49  <sipa> RHEL 7 support is until 2024
513 2018-05-31T19:24:52  <gmaxwell> The only people that were an issue were running two version old outdated debian stable, and just refused to deal with it.
514 2018-05-31T19:25:00  <luke-jr> I don't think it's realistic to wait on "oldest supported RHEL"
515 2018-05-31T19:25:06  <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: lol sounds like debian users
516 2018-05-31T19:25:12  <wumpus> gmaxwell: I doubt c++14 will be more of a problem to them than c++11
517 2018-05-31T19:25:19  <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, I dont think it is either, was just asking
518 2018-05-31T19:25:23  <wumpus> anyhow this is almost a year away
519 2018-05-31T19:25:49  <sipa> there are rumors about RHEL 8 beta this month
520 2018-05-31T19:25:50  <BlueMatt> is supported-ubuntu or supported-debian still not gonna support c++14 for 0.18?
521 2018-05-31T19:25:52  <gmaxwell> So basically what I was arguing was that for C++11 it seemed most people that had isuses were fine using binaries built elsewhere (either by us or elsewhere)... so it's fine. It just needs to be good enough to not exclude developers.
522 2018-05-31T19:25:55  <BlueMatt> it does seem a bit premature imho
523 2018-05-31T19:26:12  <wumpus> clang4 is the most common on BSDs, and it supports C++14 already  now
524 2018-05-31T19:26:40  <BlueMatt> do we mostly just want it for shared mutex?
525 2018-05-31T19:26:54  <BlueMatt> seems like we can do a mutex-wrapped shared_mutex pretty easily?
526 2018-05-31T19:26:55  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I don't agree with the conclusion. If we relax the criteria, we may (hopefully!) find users who didn't have a problem now do
527 2018-05-31T19:26:59  <wumpus> I was really surprised about that and that caused me to drop all my reservations about it
528 2018-05-31T19:27:04  * cfields wants generic lambdas and relaxed constexpr
529 2018-05-31T19:28:21  <cfields> iirc there are also several handy container cleanups. Like try_emplace().
530 2018-05-31T19:28:34  <wumpus> BlueMatt: we can use shared mutex right now through boost - optional c++14 support would be a possibility too, but sipa was not sure it's worth it
531 2018-05-31T19:29:06  <luke-jr> something to consider if it really is worth it, we could release 0.18.0 requiring it, and then if there's trouble, a 0.18.1 not needing it
532 2018-05-31T19:29:10  *** Krellan has quit IRC
533 2018-05-31T19:29:13  <sipa> yeah, we're not going to write code where one version uses a generic lambda, and then have a longer additional version for pre-c++14 systems
534 2018-05-31T19:29:21  <luke-jr> it's not a big deal if people can't update right away..
535 2018-05-31T19:29:34  <wumpus> so we can just move this to 0.19
536 2018-05-31T19:29:37  <morcos> another 10 months seems long enough to me...  we can't always be all things to all people
537 2018-05-31T19:29:39  <wumpus> if 0.18 is controversial.
538 2018-05-31T19:29:47  <sipa> how about we see after 0.17 branches off
539 2018-05-31T19:29:52  <wumpus> yes
540 2018-05-31T19:29:57  <sipa> or even later in the 0.18 cycle
541 2018-05-31T19:30:05  <wumpus> that was my proposal too, let's make it depend on RHEL
542 2018-05-31T19:30:05  <BlueMatt> yea
543 2018-05-31T19:30:06  <BlueMatt> agreed
544 2018-05-31T19:30:08  <luke-jr> I expect it won't be controversial
545 2018-05-31T19:30:16  <sipa> there's nothing we can decide here right now - just bringing up potential issues is good in advance
546 2018-05-31T19:30:20  <luke-jr> we're almost there already
547 2018-05-31T19:30:36  <BlueMatt> well I dunno about depending on rhel, certainly if there's no version of rhel that supports c++14 we shoudlnt do it, but its more than that
548 2018-05-31T19:30:38  <wumpus> in any case I tried building with -std=c++14 on various platforms today, works without any compile issues.
549 2018-05-31T19:30:44  <BlueMatt> its also a question of people running like one-version-back distro X
550 2018-05-31T19:30:46  <wumpus> so there's really nothing to be done there
551 2018-05-31T19:30:50  <BlueMatt> and if that breaks that'd be bad
552 2018-05-31T19:30:54  <BlueMatt> cause shitloads of people do that
553 2018-05-31T19:31:14  <luke-jr> BlueMatt: trusty isn't just one version back, is it?
554 2018-05-31T19:31:29  <wumpus> with that reasoning, we shouldn't even require c++11 yet
555 2018-05-31T19:31:29  <sipa> last *two* ubuntu LTSs are fine
556 2018-05-31T19:31:46  <BlueMatt> I dont really care about tursty anymore, it was released in fucking 2014
557 2018-05-31T19:31:47  <wumpus> there's no end to that - why not rewrite bitcoin core in C89 while you're at it :)
558 2018-05-31T19:31:51  <BlueMatt> it would be nice to support xenial
559 2018-05-31T19:31:58  <wumpus> it supports xenial
560 2018-05-31T19:32:08  <BlueMatt> I mean I was mostly worried about debian anyway
561 2018-05-31T19:32:08  <wumpus> xenial is gcc 5.4.0
562 2018-05-31T19:32:09  <BlueMatt> but, yea
563 2018-05-31T19:32:21  <sipa> debian oldstable is 4.8
564 2018-05-31T19:32:30  <BlueMatt> when does debian oldstable stop?
565 2018-05-31T19:32:34  <BlueMatt> like 1.5 years or something?
566 2018-05-31T19:32:41  <sipa> when there is a new stable
567 2018-05-31T19:32:44  <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Debian has an oldoldstable now :P
568 2018-05-31T19:32:47  <wumpus> I even *tried* building c++14 bitcoin core on xenial today, it worked
569 2018-05-31T19:32:58  <wumpus> let alone in march 2019...
570 2018-05-31T19:33:00  <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, ok, fuck oldoldstable
571 2018-05-31T19:33:06  <luke-jr> :D
572 2018-05-31T19:33:08  <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, that was my question
573 2018-05-31T19:33:17  <sipa> anyway, next topic?
574 2018-05-31T19:33:30  <BlueMatt> mid-2019
575 2018-05-31T19:33:35  <BlueMatt> which would imply like 0.19
576 2018-05-31T19:33:37  <BlueMatt> depending on timeline
577 2018-05-31T19:34:05  <sipa> i'm fine with not being able to *build* on debian oldstable
578 2018-05-31T19:34:12  <wumpus> yes...
579 2018-05-31T19:34:37  <BlueMatt> I'm not a fan of it, unless we have a super huge win we want right away, though if its like "debian oldstable will be eol in like a month after release" its a rather moot point
580 2018-05-31T19:34:46  <cfields> any update on github unicorns? I don't remember seeing any this week, though something about my browser must make them rare for me.
581 2018-05-31T19:34:51  <sipa> cfields: they're fixed
582 2018-05-31T19:35:02  <cfields> woohoo!
583 2018-05-31T19:35:09  <wumpus> github unicorns seem to be fixed
584 2018-05-31T19:35:16  <wumpus> haven't encountered any this week, I think
585 2018-05-31T19:35:28  <sipa> don't remember who commented about it here, but they received a mail from github saying they did some software updated that added caching
586 2018-05-31T19:35:29  <jonasschnelli> Yes. They wrote back that they have deployed a fix
587 2018-05-31T19:35:37  <sipa> ah, it was mr schnelli
588 2018-05-31T19:35:46  <wumpus> cool.
589 2018-05-31T19:36:19  <cfields> jonasschnelli: thanks for nagging :)
590 2018-05-31T19:36:22  <sipa> wumpus: you had a topic?
591 2018-05-31T19:36:24  <wumpus> #topic new "addr" P2P message to support 256-bit addresses (wumpus)
592 2018-05-31T19:36:29  <wumpus> so I'd like to work on this
593 2018-05-31T19:36:31  <sipa> concept ack
594 2018-05-31T19:36:53  <BlueMatt> for new-style tor services, I presume?
595 2018-05-31T19:36:54  <luke-jr> is 256- bit enough?
596 2018-05-31T19:36:57  <BlueMatt> sounds like a good idea to me
597 2018-05-31T19:37:02  <roasbeef> wumpus: +1
598 2018-05-31T19:37:03  <wumpus> first a BIP, of course. Anything special I should take into account? my idea would be to introduce a new ADDR message with more space for the network address, simply.
599 2018-05-31T19:37:10  <wumpus> this is to support I2P
600 2018-05-31T19:37:16  <wumpus> and the new TorV3 hidden services
601 2018-05-31T19:37:16  <luke-jr> 256+8 seems better for future-proofing (8 bits to select a network schema)
602 2018-05-31T19:37:20  <wumpus> yes, both use 256 bit
603 2018-05-31T19:37:25  <wumpus> luke-jr: yes
604 2018-05-31T19:37:32  <wumpus> that's my idea, also have a network id
605 2018-05-31T19:37:34  <sipa> 256 bit + network class byte
606 2018-05-31T19:37:39  <luke-jr> sgtm
607 2018-05-31T19:37:44  <BlueMatt> + port? I know they dont need them but other things...who knows?
608 2018-05-31T19:37:47  <sipa> so we can stop using onioncat embedding in ipv6
609 2018-05-31T19:37:51  <BlueMatt> I mean whats an extra 4 bytes
610 2018-05-31T19:37:53  <jonasschnelli> Not sure what plans sipa and gmaxwell may have with authentication.. not sure if that is overlapping with addr
611 2018-05-31T19:37:56  <BlueMatt> err 2 bytes
612 2018-05-31T19:37:58  <sipa> jonasschnelli: no overlap
613 2018-05-31T19:38:01  <roasbeef> idk where bip 151 (and it's auth companion) is at atm, but could also use it to propagate pubkeys as well so initial conn handshake can be fully encrypted
614 2018-05-31T19:38:01  <wumpus> BlueMatt: yes, the port should still be there, good point
615 2018-05-31T19:38:05  <luke-jr> could do a variable length :P
616 2018-05-31T19:38:15  <jonasschnelli> Yes. I mean what roasbeef just said
617 2018-05-31T19:38:18  <jonasschnelli> *meant
618 2018-05-31T19:38:19  <sipa> roasbeef: that seems to defeat the purpose :(
619 2018-05-31T19:38:27  <wumpus> roasbeef: should that be gossiped?
620 2018-05-31T19:38:28  <roasbeef> how so?
621 2018-05-31T19:38:34  <roasbeef> depends...
622 2018-05-31T19:38:36  <sipa> that leaks identity
623 2018-05-31T19:38:38  <sdaftuar> could this overlap with NODE_NETWORK_LIMITED etc to gossip block ranges that nodes might store and serve to the network?
624 2018-05-31T19:38:40  <cfields> wumpus: any changes to serviceflags logic while you're at it?
625 2018-05-31T19:38:45  <wumpus> cfields: no
626 2018-05-31T19:38:47  <luke-jr> wumpus: please add multi-bit service flags
627 2018-05-31T19:38:48  <wumpus> (preferably not)
628 2018-05-31T19:38:52  <luke-jr> :x
629 2018-05-31T19:38:56  <wumpus> I don't want too much scope creep
630 2018-05-31T19:38:56  <cfields> heh
631 2018-05-31T19:39:06  <sipa> roasbeef, jonasschnelli: oh!
632 2018-05-31T19:39:19  <sipa> wait, are you just saying a bit to indicate "this peer supports encryption"?
633 2018-05-31T19:39:23  <sipa> or rumouring pubkeys?
634 2018-05-31T19:39:24  <wumpus> cfields: at least not as in "extend the service flags to arbitrary text" or something like that
635 2018-05-31T19:39:31  <wumpus> cfields: if you need some more bits there, sure
636 2018-05-31T19:39:32  <sipa> (i'm in favor of the first, against the latter)
637 2018-05-31T19:39:41  <jonasschnelli> sdaftuar: don't we already pass around the service bits? Or can you be more specific about the NODE_NETWORK_LIMITED flag?
638 2018-05-31T19:39:43  <roasbeef> i was saying rumouring pubkeys
639 2018-05-31T19:39:47  <sipa> yeah, no
640 2018-05-31T19:39:51  <roasbeef> how do you stop MiTM otherwise?
641 2018-05-31T19:39:55  <BlueMatt> roasbeef: nooooo, we dont want to leak identity
642 2018-05-31T19:40:01  <wumpus> cfields: the data to be gossiped should be fairly compact, after all
643 2018-05-31T19:40:04  <sipa> roasbeef: out of band
644 2018-05-31T19:40:07  <jonasschnelli> roasbeef: manual pairing only for now
645 2018-05-31T19:40:07  <wumpus> cfields: but I'm interested in hearing your ideas
646 2018-05-31T19:40:24  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: there was an issue with NNL defining the 2-3 bits as having 2^N meanings due to nodes combining the set bits
647 2018-05-31T19:40:55  <jonasschnelli> ?
648 2018-05-31T19:40:56  <sipa> roasbeef: most connections don't need MitM protection, as there is no identity of the peer they're connecting yo
649 2018-05-31T19:41:14  <roasbeef> true, and the ones that do can use an ssh like auth_keys structure i guess
650 2018-05-31T19:41:16  <luke-jr> might be good to add a node seed of some sort; eg, so we can do a deterministic "don't prune these blocks"
651 2018-05-31T19:41:19  <sipa> only situations where you're connecting to a friend's peer or a node you run yourself need authentication
652 2018-05-31T19:41:21  <wumpus> sdaftuar: seems like something that will get outdated really soon
653 2018-05-31T19:41:24  <cfields> wumpus: I was just curious as now would be the obvious time to make improvements. Can't really think of anything off the top of my head though.
654 2018-05-31T19:41:35  <luke-jr> sipa: well, keys can ensure the age of your peers, so the ISP can't MITM *everything*
655 2018-05-31T19:41:38  <wumpus> sdaftuar: what you'd want to gossip is block storage policy, not range, I think
656 2018-05-31T19:42:09  <luke-jr> sipa: eg, if you're on an untrusted wifi, it'd be nice to know you have peers you found at home
657 2018-05-31T19:42:29  <jimpo> Wouldn't Tor v3 address leak identity?
658 2018-05-31T19:42:33  <wumpus> cfields: ok well if you have any ideas, feel free to let me know, but I think there's danger in trying to do too much at once
659 2018-05-31T19:42:40  <roasbeef> jimpo: no more than tor v2
660 2018-05-31T19:42:41  <wumpus> cfields: I really just want to support torv3 and I2P asap :)
661 2018-05-31T19:42:42  <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: but how could you make sure those peers are trustworthy? They could even sell their auth-key, etc.
662 2018-05-31T19:42:47  <sdaftuar> wumpus: yes, this is premature but i had imagined that we might store block heights % N or something, and communicate that
663 2018-05-31T19:42:50  <sipa> jimpo: as much as IP addresses are an identity, yes
664 2018-05-31T19:43:03  <cfields> wumpus: one potential improvement would be filtering based on specified nets. I don't think we can do that now, can we?
665 2018-05-31T19:43:21  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: you can't in any case; it just ensures some wifi access point isn't sybil'ing you
666 2018-05-31T19:43:21  <jonasschnelli> sdaftuar, wumpus: do we have stats (impossible) how deep pruned peers do prune?
667 2018-05-31T19:43:26  <wumpus> cfields: no, I don't think so
668 2018-05-31T19:43:26  <jimpo> That seems similar to IP + BIP 151 pubkey then?
669 2018-05-31T19:43:29  <cfields> (obviously we can/do after receipt)
670 2018-05-31T19:43:30  <sipa> jimpo: the issue is being able to correlate multiple IP addresses belonging to the same node
671 2018-05-31T19:43:42  *** jtimon has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
672 2018-05-31T19:43:49  <sdaftuar> jonasschnelli: for something like this i think we'd first need a new pruning mode where instead of just keeping the last 2 days of blocks, you keep some fraction of all blocks
673 2018-05-31T19:43:53  <wumpus> cfields: clients use some weird heuristic to determine what peers to send AFAIK
674 2018-05-31T19:43:57  <jimpo> Could BIP 151 blind pubkeys with the hash of the IP/port?
675 2018-05-31T19:44:07  <luke-jr> sdaftuar: that was my idea with the seed
676 2018-05-31T19:44:30  <jonasschnelli> jimpo: BIP 151 has no authentication
677 2018-05-31T19:44:35  <sipa> jimpo: that's one possibility, yes - but even better is a technique that doesn't reveal pubkeys at all
678 2018-05-31T19:44:57  <wumpus> issue for this is #2091
679 2018-05-31T19:44:58  *** AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
680 2018-05-31T19:44:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2091 | Binding to multiple anonymous networks (esp. I2P) · Issue #2091 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
681 2018-05-31T19:45:05  <cfields> sipa: speaking of which, any updates on the scheme you're scheming?
682 2018-05-31T19:45:16  *** bitconner has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
683 2018-05-31T19:45:21  <sipa> cfields: no, sorry
684 2018-05-31T19:45:27  <cfields> np
685 2018-05-31T19:45:40  <sipa> jimpo: https://gist.github.com/sipa/d7dcaae0419f10e5be0270fada84c20b has some arguments in favor
686 2018-05-31T19:46:16  <jonasschnelli> however, to not distract, the 256+bit addr proposal should be written and discussion should continued on the ML
687 2018-05-31T19:46:23  <sipa> agree
688 2018-05-31T19:46:33  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: yes
689 2018-05-31T19:46:36  <sipa> but it's something i've wanted to do since 2012 :)
690 2018-05-31T19:46:41  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I was just asking for ideas.
691 2018-05-31T19:47:06  <wumpus> any other topics?
692 2018-05-31T19:47:54  <jonasschnelli> Maybe a quick dive into seeder hardening?
693 2018-05-31T19:48:12  <wumpus> #topic Seeder hardening (jonasschnelli)
694 2018-05-31T19:48:20  <jonasschnelli> It seems like that most active DNS seeds pass around ABC/BCash peers...
695 2018-05-31T19:48:33  <jonasschnelli> It's a cat and mouse game... but we could tighten the screws
696 2018-05-31T19:48:52  <jonasschnelli> By checking for a recent block during crawling (expansive) or avoid protocol version >80000
697 2018-05-31T19:49:06  <cfields> jonasschnelli: didn't they change magic?
698 2018-05-31T19:49:24  <jonasschnelli> cfields: not sure,... maybe, but then there are still some zombies around.
699 2018-05-31T19:49:24  <wumpus> it's kind of a difficult compromise, on one hand you want a cheap heuristic, on the other hand it should be expensive to work around
700 2018-05-31T19:49:49  *** bitconner has quit IRC
701 2018-05-31T19:49:53  <wumpus> having to run a bitcoind on seeder nodes sounds like prohibitively expensive
702 2018-05-31T19:49:54  <jonasschnelli> But if they are dishonest, they will just serve the correct block to the all-known seeder ips, and cheat with all other IPs
703 2018-05-31T19:50:04  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: yeah.. I dislike that as well
704 2018-05-31T19:50:13  <sipa> my seeder node has a bitcoind... i'm more worried about the bandwidth increase from asking for blocks
705 2018-05-31T19:50:20  <jonasschnelli> Maybe we should just keep an eye on it and start to form some thoughts
706 2018-05-31T19:50:22  <sipa> asking for headers may be better
707 2018-05-31T19:50:31  <wumpus> sipa: good point.
708 2018-05-31T19:50:49  <sipa> i don't seem to have many ABC nodes
709 2018-05-31T19:50:54  <jonasschnelli> Yeah. Bandwith... although you could disconnect after the header+a couple of txns
710 2018-05-31T19:51:02  <sipa> 30 in my top 100k IPs
711 2018-05-31T19:51:11  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: but how would you verify, if you don't actually receive the data?
712 2018-05-31T19:51:12  <sipa> 13 in my top 10k
713 2018-05-31T19:51:22  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: also it increases load on the nodes you're probing
714 2018-05-31T19:51:23  <sipa> 1 in my top 1000
715 2018-05-31T19:52:00  <jonasschnelli> Okay. Yes. That is a different image...
716 2018-05-31T19:52:30  <jonasschnelli> Well,.. then nm..
717 2018-05-31T19:52:46  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: the difference is strange
718 2018-05-31T19:53:11  <jonasschnelli> I need to check my mainnet seed. I played with some options on the testnet seed... there its def. worse
719 2018-05-31T19:53:17  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: you should probably check what your configuration differences with sipa are
720 2018-05-31T19:53:25  <jonasschnelli> Indeed
721 2018-05-31T19:53:44  <jonasschnelli> or if someone is trying to sybil my crawler. :)
722 2018-05-31T19:54:07  <wumpus> hehe, probe through tor :)
723 2018-05-31T19:54:37  <jonasschnelli> I guess that is the difference... my provider stoped my seeder a couple of times because it tested some invalid IP ranges a lot
724 2018-05-31T19:54:45  <jonasschnelli> since then I mostly crawl via tor
725 2018-05-31T19:54:56  <wumpus> ohh maybe they're sybilling tor exit nodes then
726 2018-05-31T19:55:04  <jonasschnelli> however, I double check and report back IF it is an issue
727 2018-05-31T19:55:18  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: or that, yeah.
728 2018-05-31T19:55:25  <wumpus> though I somehow doubt that would take the form of ... more ABC nodes
729 2018-05-31T19:55:43  <cfields> jonasschnelli: you're filtering out non-segwit?
730 2018-05-31T19:56:36  <jonasschnelli> cfields: I use the standard parameters of an up to date version of sipa seeder... I don't think it filters out non SW peers if a client don't ask for it via x<filer>.seed
731 2018-05-31T19:56:49  <BlueMatt> my seeder has /always/ asked for one block
732 2018-05-31T19:57:03  <BlueMatt> (but does not need a full node)
733 2018-05-31T19:57:09  <sipa> BlueMatt: nice
734 2018-05-31T19:57:24  <wumpus> BlueMatt: the only reason it would need a node is to ask for a recent one
735 2018-05-31T19:57:28  <jonasschnelli> BlueMatt: hopefully your not asking for the genesis. :)
736 2018-05-31T19:57:37  <BlueMatt> wumpus: I mean its an spv client so it does ask for a recent one
737 2018-05-31T19:57:44  <wumpus> but asking after the ABC and gold forks it would be ok I guess
738 2018-05-31T19:58:02  <jonasschnelli> BlueMatt: nice.
739 2018-05-31T19:58:43  <wumpus> yes
740 2018-05-31T19:59:06  <jonasschnelli> cat dnsseed.dump | grep "Bitcoin ABC" | grep "  1   " | wc -l
741 2018-05-31T19:59:10  <jonasschnelli> 207 ips
742 2018-05-31T19:59:24  <sipa> and: cat dnsseed.dump | head -n 1000 | grep ABC | wc ?
743 2018-05-31T19:59:44  <jonasschnelli>      58     762    9526
744 2018-05-31T19:59:53  <sipa> significantly more than for me
745 2018-05-31T20:00:01  <sipa> (i have 1 with that command line)
746 2018-05-31T20:00:10  <jonasschnelli> Strange... just checked... I don't crawl anymore via tor
747 2018-05-31T20:00:17  <sipa> well, time's up
748 2018-05-31T20:00:20  <wumpus> #endmeeting
749 2018-05-31T20:00:20  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu May 31 20:00:20 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
750 2018-05-31T20:00:20  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-31-19.02.html
751 2018-05-31T20:00:20  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-31-19.02.txt
752 2018-05-31T20:00:20  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-05-31-19.02.log.html
753 2018-05-31T20:00:42  <jonasschnelli> however,.. I'll investigate. If sipas seeder "is clean", then I guess its handable.
754 2018-05-31T20:00:56  <wumpus> it's really strange
755 2018-05-31T20:01:20  *** nmnkgl has quit IRC
756 2018-05-31T20:02:04  <jonasschnelli> Would removing the database and "give-it-a-fresh-start" may help?
757 2018-05-31T20:02:12  *** Victorsueca has quit IRC
758 2018-05-31T20:02:53  <achow101> can someone help me fix travis for #12136. I can't replicate its failure locally and the log for it makes no sense to me as to why it is failing
759 2018-05-31T20:02:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12136 | Implement BIP 174 Partially Signed Bitcoin Transactions by achow101 · Pull Request #12136 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
760 2018-05-31T20:03:06  <jonasschnelli> doneing..
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762 2018-05-31T20:03:35  <aj> wumpus: so matrix was managing to show me what you were saying, but nothing from anyone else
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764 2018-05-31T20:06:07  <cfields> achow101: the logs were nuked when the build was restarted. got a copy?
765 2018-05-31T20:06:54  <achow101> No, but the first error was about TransactionSignatureCreator at sign.cpp:48
766 2018-05-31T20:07:04  <achow101> it couldn't find TransactionSignatureCreator
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768 2018-05-31T20:09:04  <achow101> cfields: well all of the builds are still failing, so you have the logs now
769 2018-05-31T20:09:20  <wumpus> aj: lol, weird, maybe becuase I have +o?
770 2018-05-31T20:09:22  <cfields> ah, there we go
771 2018-05-31T20:10:01  *** ChanServ sets mode: -o wumpus
772 2018-05-31T20:10:23  <wumpus> aj: can I be invisible too now?
773 2018-05-31T20:11:51  <MarcoFalke> achow101: Fails locally for me as well
774 2018-05-31T20:12:09  <achow101> oh
775 2018-05-31T20:12:36  <ajtowns[m]> Wumpus: nope your words still cross the ethereal boundaries
776 2018-05-31T20:12:55  <achow101> MarcoFalke: works fine for me, and it worked fine before the changes I made, and those didn't touch the code that travis says the error is on
777 2018-05-31T20:13:26  <wumpus> ajtowns[m]: darn!
778 2018-05-31T20:13:53  <MarcoFalke> achow101: Note that you have to rebase
779 2018-05-31T20:14:02  <aj> wumpus: promag also makes it through, so you're not totally special fwiw
780 2018-05-31T20:14:06  <MarcoFalke> This is a merge conflict (silent)
781 2018-05-31T20:14:23  <MarcoFalke> travis always runs against merge(master, pull)
782 2018-05-31T20:14:32  <achow101> MarcoFalke: I thought I rebased. maybe I didn't rebase far enough
783 2018-05-31T20:14:45  <MarcoFalke> heh
784 2018-05-31T20:14:56  *** Emcy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
785 2018-05-31T20:15:06  <MarcoFalke> git rebase 36fc8052f62b87b11b0366fefee5f38dc886aefd
786 2018-05-31T20:15:20  <cfields> achow101: wow, that's a lot of inheritance. Try calling the parent instead of great-grandparent?
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788 2018-05-31T20:16:55  <achow101> ok, now I see the problem.
789 2018-05-31T20:17:17  <achow101> cfields: originall TransactionSignatureCreator was the parent..
790 2018-05-31T20:17:23  <achow101> *originally
791 2018-05-31T20:17:57  <cfields> achow101: I haven't really looked, but could you possibly inherit directly from the interface instead?
792 2018-05-31T20:18:24  <achow101> cfields: the problem is that someone got rid of TransactionSignatureCreator in master and I hadn't rebased to that
793 2018-05-31T20:18:35  <cfields> ah, ok
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801 2018-05-31T20:46:17  <echeveria> 2018-05-31 19:45:07.675057 Potential stale tip detected, will try using extra outbound peer (last tip update: 2128 seconds ago)
802 2018-05-31T20:46:23  <echeveria> this seems pretty eager
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805 2018-05-31T20:47:25  <wumpus> ok wrote a post on the new addr message discussion: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2091#issuecomment-393673952
806 2018-05-31T20:47:39  <wumpus> echeveria: on the other hand adding an extra outbound peer is not exactly a drastic measure
807 2018-05-31T20:49:22  <echeveria> true.
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813 2018-05-31T21:33:21  <sipa> jonasschnelli: any reasons why the "address/script/xpub/derivation" descriptor can't be a single string?
814 2018-05-31T21:34:25  <sipa> something like "address:..." or "script:..." or "p2wpkh:xpub..../0-2000"
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