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 19 2018-07-06T01:38:17  <gmaxwell> sdaftuar: any idea why on #13298 naumenkogs claims that changing the bucket count does not change propagation time? this seems improbable to me in the extreme.
 20 2018-07-06T01:38:19  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13298 | Net: Random delays *per network group* to obfuscate transaction time by naumenkogs · Pull Request #13298 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 21 2018-07-06T01:38:45  <gmaxwell> Since e.g. 2 buckets should be effectively half the delay to relay to someone.
 22 2018-07-06T01:38:49  <gmaxwell> vs 1
 23 2018-07-06T01:39:06  <sipa> gmaxwell: because in practice propagation is much faster through outgoing connections
 24 2018-07-06T01:39:16  <sipa> (where there is no bucket limit)
 25 2018-07-06T01:39:17  <gmaxwell> if it's true, what it means is basically all the propagation is done via outbounds...
 26 2018-07-06T01:39:39  <sipa> right
 27 2018-07-06T01:39:39  <gmaxwell> which is fine, but then thats an argument for using 1 bucket
 28 2018-07-06T01:39:59  <sipa> the argument against 1 bucket is bandwidth spikes
 29 2018-07-06T01:41:56  <gmaxwell> right now the code is n=8, r=2, which gleb didn't post images. And his figures give 63% success for first spy.
 30 2018-07-06T01:42:29  <gmaxwell> I was expecting 2,4  based on the comment "From these numbers, 2 buckets and R=4 seems optimal."
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 32 2018-07-06T01:43:24  <gmaxwell> nmnkgl: https://0bin.net/paste/JglfiwFb85oBwU6K#wNRzTWRa7TIbbKJibWAGRxMBZ7jh54JsUwc7xisTkoc
 33 2018-07-06T01:45:37  <nmnkgl> Well, I might have been confusing in my messages.  Propagation time is slower 25-40% for r=4 comparing to r=2.
 34 2018-07-06T01:46:16  <nmnkgl> Oh, that's about buckets, right.
 35 2018-07-06T01:47:15  <gmaxwell> nmnkgl: well we can always decrease the base speed to get the propagation time back.
 36 2018-07-06T01:47:39  <gmaxwell> though also I don't have any particular reason to think making propagation slower would be a problem.
 37 2018-07-06T01:48:09  <gmaxwell> with the current behavior we still get very close to 100% hitrates on compact blocks.
 38 2018-07-06T01:48:55  <gmaxwell> I think past analysis of mining stuff suggested that mining infra had average delays on the order of 30 seconds. (e.g. only giving new work to miners somewhat infrequently)
 39 2018-07-06T01:50:27  <nmnkgl> The only thing I'm  worried about here is correctness of my results :)
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 41 2018-07-06T01:50:58  <gmaxwell> nmnkgl: your result isn't surprising if we assume that almost all propagation is done by the outbound side, which is plausable.
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 44 2018-07-06T01:51:40  <gmaxwell> esp if, as I assume, your topology has all nodes with similar order and all accepting inbound.
 45 2018-07-06T01:52:36  <sipa> so the propagation speed across the network should be to some extent influenced by the time until the _first_ broadcast of a given transaction
 46 2018-07-06T01:52:42  <nmnkgl> I can measure what fraction is relayed through outgoing if we won't come up with a good explanation.
 47 2018-07-06T01:53:07  <sipa> if you have more independent buckets, that time will be lower, because there are more independent broadcast events
 48 2018-07-06T01:53:09  <gmaxwell> (luke's figures suggest about 10% of nodes are listening)
 49 2018-07-06T01:53:23  <sipa> turns out there is a simple formula for the minimum of multiple exponential distributions
 50 2018-07-06T01:53:34  <gmaxwell> sipa: but in terms of estimating e.g. impact on CB performance, the first delay is irrelevant.
 51 2018-07-06T01:54:02  <sipa> gmaxwell: no it isn't- as soon as the transaction is out, the rest of the network has a chance to relay it - even to your own peers
 52 2018-07-06T01:54:28  <sipa> i didn't mean to claim this is the dominant factor in propagation, but it matters
 53 2018-07-06T01:55:12  <gmaxwell> sipa: I just mean that we don't care about the time until the second node gets it, we care about the time between the second node and almost all nodes.
 54 2018-07-06T01:55:33  <sipa> something in between, i think
 55 2018-07-06T01:55:42  <gmaxwell> why in between?
 56 2018-07-06T01:55:59  <gmaxwell> I think we're probably talking past each other.
 57 2018-07-06T01:56:02  <sipa> perhaps
 58 2018-07-06T01:56:28  <nmnkgl> To be clear, I observed delay of less that 10% if increasing n buckets. In most of the cases up to 5%.
 59 2018-07-06T01:56:35  <nmnkgl> To be clear, I observed delay of less than 10% if increasing n buckets. In most of the cases up to 5%.
 60 2018-07-06T01:56:37  <gmaxwell> I think all these times are fast enough they're more or less background noise compared to ten minute confirmations and whatnot.  But they can potentially impact CB effectiveness.
 61 2018-07-06T01:57:34  <sipa> i'm just trying to argue that having more buckets should be espected to reduce overall propagation delay across the network
 62 2018-07-06T01:57:45  <sipa> even if the average time for sending to any given peer is the same
 63 2018-07-06T01:58:26  <gmaxwell> OH
 64 2018-07-06T01:58:27  <gmaxwell> OKAY
 65 2018-07-06T01:58:46  <gmaxwell> sorry, you and nmnkgl are focused on debugging his simulation and I keep going off topic and trying to optimize the network.
 66 2018-07-06T01:58:54  <sipa> haha ok
 67 2018-07-06T01:59:26  <gmaxwell> yes, indeed, I expect the outbound count would change the propagation time, at least for the first hop, even if almost all the propagation happens via outbound links.
 68 2018-07-06T02:00:53  <gmaxwell> nmnkgl: simulate with r=1, you should see a very dramatic effect from the number of buckets.
 69 2018-07-06T02:01:12  <nmnkgl> will do.
 70 2018-07-06T02:01:41  <gmaxwell> would it be hard for you to simulate only 10% of nodes accepting inbounds?
 71 2018-07-06T02:02:42  <nmnkgl> Not at all, I already did that for spikes measurement.
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 73 2018-07-06T02:05:19  <nmnkgl> I will share results tomorrow morning.
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 86 2018-07-06T03:20:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mruddy closed pull request #13596: zmq: update to avoid deprecated zeromq api functions and log zmq version used (master...zmq-deprecation-update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13596
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 91 2018-07-06T04:17:26  <sipa> jonasschnelli: i realize i'm very late with my review on your scanutxoset RPC... but i'm very surprised by the sweep transaction creation integration
 92 2018-07-06T04:18:01  <sipa> a separate createrawsweeptransaction RPC seems much more useful and sane
 93 2018-07-06T04:21:50  <sipa> the size estimation looks broken too; it assumes everything is P2SH-P2WSH with a dummy script inside?
 94 2018-07-06T04:22:17  <sipa> this is not something you can usefully implement without knowing the scripts involved
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 96 2018-07-06T04:26:24  <sipa> as is, it seems the feature is identical to createrawtransaction with the unspents listed + a simple vbytes per input constant to estimate size
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 99 2018-07-06T04:31:26  <sipa> Does it even work? It looks to me that for anything P2SH or P2WSH it won't even include the size of transactions in the estimate.
100 2018-07-06T04:31:40  <sipa> Eh, size of the signatures.
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146 2018-07-06T06:49:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] YutakaNakasone opened pull request #13602: Trivial: delete "to" in comment (master...topic) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13602
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148 2018-07-06T07:01:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/287e4edc2fd2...0212187fc624
149 2018-07-06T07:01:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1fc605a Akio Nakamura: fix bench/prevector.cpp...
150 2018-07-06T07:01:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0212187 MarcoFalke: Merge #13598: bench: fix incorrect behaviour in prevector.cpp...
151 2018-07-06T07:02:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #13598: bench: fix incorrect behaviour in prevector.cpp (master...fix_bench_prevector) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13598
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172 2018-07-06T10:03:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors closed pull request #13029: Interpret absense of prune= as prune=1 if there are pruned blocks (master...2018/04/implicit_prune) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13029
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175 2018-07-06T10:04:53  <provoostenator> #12818 could use some (easy!) review love
176 2018-07-06T10:04:54  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12818 | [qt] TransactionView: highlight replacement tx after fee bump by Sjors · Pull Request #12818 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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207 2018-07-06T11:54:37  <provoostenator> Unhappy Travis linter (I tried a restart), any idea why? https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/builds/400849545
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209 2018-07-06T11:57:16  <provoostenator> It's also not whitespace, which I tested locally.
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213 2018-07-06T12:23:50  <Varunram> provoostenator: Travis says the error is from `test/lint/lint-shell-locale.sh`
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216 2018-07-06T12:35:09  <provoostenator> Ok, I'm guessing it wants me to add "export LC_ALL=C" at the top...
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233 2018-07-06T14:01:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] domob1812 opened pull request #13603: bitcoin-tx: Stricter check for valid integers (master...bitcointx) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13603
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237 2018-07-06T14:38:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheCharlatan opened pull request #13604:  Add depends 32-bit arm support for bitcoin-qt  (master...Qt59arm) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13604
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246 2018-07-06T15:56:26  <provoostenator> Another Travis mystery: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/400935074 "Done. Your build exited with 1." but nothing red
247 2018-07-06T16:03:59  <arubi> provoostenator, https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/400935074#L1493 , probably needs to be mkdir -p
248 2018-07-06T16:04:11  <arubi> it didn't end up cd'ing into ./build because it's &&'ed
249 2018-07-06T16:05:20  <provoostenator> Ah yes, because I'm now caching the build dir...
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288 2018-07-06T19:59:59  <CubicEarths> Exciting to the Schnorr bip submitted!!  Is there a size savings on the signature for a standard, non-multisig tx?
289 2018-07-06T20:01:14  <sipa> CubicEarths: read the email :)
290 2018-07-06T20:01:29  <sipa> this is just a signature scheme, not an integration in bitcoin
291 2018-07-06T20:03:38  <CubicEarths> ok ok. I'll re-ask in few months when a similar question becomes answerable :)
292 2018-07-06T20:06:04  <sipa> thanks!
293 2018-07-06T20:10:36  <CubicEarths> looks like a future implementation based on your work might save 8 bytes for a non-multisig tx
294 2018-07-06T20:24:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jhfrontz opened pull request #13605: Corrected text to reflect new[er] process of specifying fingerprints (master...update-gitian-keys-README) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13605
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