1 2018-11-29T00:21:40  <dongcarl> Lol...
  2 2018-11-29T00:23:03  <dongcarl> What are people's thoughts on having a static analyzer run by default on PRs?
  3 2018-11-29T00:24:49  <sipa> dongcarl: the question is how it will report, and what the policy would be around it
  4 2018-11-29T00:25:20  <sipa> for things that are reasonably false positives, you can't force contributors to avoid them
  5 2018-11-29T00:27:41  <dongcarl> sipa: I think that the workflow should be this: CI shouldn't fail if the static analyzer notices problems, instead, once the static analyzer is done, a bot (like DrahtBot) posts a link to the report summary on the PR. Reviewers can take a look at the report, or not, completely supplementary info.
  6 2018-11-29T00:28:22  <dongcarl> clang's static analyzer actually generates html for you, pretty convenient
  7 2018-11-29T00:29:00  <sipa> dongcarl: also spamming PRs with things that aren't actionable is very annoing
  8 2018-11-29T00:31:26  <dongcarl> Hmmmm... Okay. I think what's been happening currently is that every quarter or so kallewoof posts the static analyzer output as an Issue and people dig thru it... Perhaps that's less noisy?
  9 2018-11-29T00:31:45  <sipa> dongcarl: i think it would be useful to have some separate page where you can see an overview of various analysis tools run on the PRs
 10 2018-11-29T00:32:07  <sipa> but that's a lot more work obviously
 11 2018-11-29T00:33:10  <dongcarl> sipa: Hmmm... I remember seeing some site like this but for benchmarking? Can't remember who's it was...
 12 2018-11-29T00:34:19  <sipa> jamesob's ?
 13 2018-11-29T00:36:38  <aj> bitcoinperf.com ?
 14 2018-11-29T00:37:29  <dongcarl> Yup!
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 18 2018-11-29T01:14:33  <gmaxwell> the FP rate for something like that has to be very low, --- otherwise you just getting people making goofy changes to silence the analyizer, and that behavior lowers software quality.
 19 2018-11-29T01:17:11  <sipa> agree; it's probably useful in combination with someone who is familiar with the code enough to determine which issues are relevant
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 25 2018-11-29T01:46:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] cryptosnail opened pull request #14833: 0.17 (master...0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14833
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 29 2018-11-29T01:47:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] cryptosnail closed pull request #14833: 0.17 (master...0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14833
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 63 2018-11-29T03:37:28  <jamesob> dongcarl sipa: bitcoinperf's interface needs a lot of work (and there's some of that in progress atm). Down the road I plan on building in some kind of opt-in benchmarking per PR; not necessarily anything that reports back to Github, but that may have PR-specific page on bitcoinperf. Comments to the PR are potentially disruptive given the number of listeners (see drahtbot's quest for one comment per PR).
 64 2018-11-29T03:38:07  <dongcarl> Gotcha
 65 2018-11-29T03:38:37  <dongcarl> Maybe someone can comment “@benchbot plz bench” for opt-in benchmarking or something like that
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 67 2018-11-29T03:39:47  <jamesob> Could be, though that's another boilerplate comment. I dunno, haven't thought a ton about it. Think hooking into Github's commit status API a la Travis might be worth exploring too.
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 71 2018-11-29T03:50:18  <gmaxwell> anything that runs per PR and dumps data somewhere is great
 72 2018-11-29T03:50:26  <gmaxwell> including crazy sanitizers and whatever
 73 2018-11-29T03:50:57  <gmaxwell> We just should avoid things causing notifications unless we actually want people to take action on the vast majority of to notifications
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 78 2018-11-29T04:08:24  <dongcarl> Yeah I agree notifications should be meaningful...
 79 2018-11-29T04:08:39  <dongcarl> Looking at the GitHub checks API here: https://developer.github.com/v3/checks/runs/
 80 2018-11-29T04:09:40  <dongcarl> Looks like benchmarks and static analysis could be notices with links attached
 81 2018-11-29T04:09:45  <luke-jr> would be nice if GitHub let us add our own buttons to PRs :P
 82 2018-11-29T04:10:16  <dongcarl> luke-jr: well I think each check can have a details url
 83 2018-11-29T04:10:27  <luke-jr> yeah, I just mean if we want some things to run conditionally
 84 2018-11-29T04:10:32  <dongcarl> Oh right yeah
 85 2018-11-29T04:12:28  <dongcarl> Thinking off the top of my head: perhaps we can have tags that activate checks? As in... fanquake-driven development?
 86 2018-11-29T04:16:17  <luke-jr> eh, it might work if anyone could add tags
 87 2018-11-29T04:18:44  <dongcarl> True.
 88 2018-11-29T04:19:28  <dongcarl> Yeah I'm just thinking about developer/reviewer ergonomics... Looks like I need to take a harder look at Github API
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 90 2018-11-29T04:20:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof opened pull request #14834: validation: do not break assumption that pindexPrev may be null (master...20181129-contextualcheckblock-pindexprev-nullness) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14834
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 92 2018-11-29T04:20:53  <kallewoof> dongcarl: you reminded me to run analyzer again. Rewriting those reports was a big pain in the ass though, but I might get around to it.
 93 2018-11-29T04:21:25  <dongcarl> kallewoof: haha yeah I saw that PR and was like: I KNOW WHAT KALLE JUST DID
 94 2018-11-29T04:21:36  <kallewoof> lol!
 95 2018-11-29T04:21:58  <kallewoof> I figured I'd fix the obvious ones, to cut down on the report writing pain :P
 96 2018-11-29T04:22:30  <dongcarl> kallewoof: I'm gunna see if I can find a solution to have more automatic analysis for PRs without spamming useless notifications
 97 2018-11-29T04:22:37  <dongcarl> but yeah stopgap is you lol
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 99 2018-11-29T04:23:15  <kallewoof> TBH I think keeping track of which issues have been reported and only reporting them once with a single location where everyone can review all of them would be  good enough, presuming FPs are not overly bad.
100 2018-11-29T04:24:13  <kallewoof> Like.. "This PR introduces a new warning in the Clang Analyzer toolset. Make sure this is a false positive before this is merged. (Note: this message only appears once for this PR.)" or something.
101 2018-11-29T04:24:48  <dongcarl> True
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103 2018-11-29T04:32:23  <gmaxwell> I think these PRs might also be candidates for 0.17.x backport
104 2018-11-29T04:32:24  <gmaxwell> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14728
105 2018-11-29T04:32:24  <gmaxwell> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14679
106 2018-11-29T04:32:24  <gmaxwell> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14454
107 2018-11-29T04:32:24  <gmaxwell> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14618
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109 2018-11-29T04:33:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #14835: [0.17] Backport #14593, #14596 and #14690 (0.17...further-0-17-backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14835
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111 2018-11-29T04:34:19  <gmaxwell> Also this isn't merged yet, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14380  but looks done to me? and its a fix we should have in 0.17.1
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130 2018-11-29T07:13:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyRubin opened pull request #14836: Probabalistic Checker for Duplicate Inputs (master...faster-dedup-working-rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14836
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133 2018-11-29T07:13:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyRubin closed pull request #14836: Probabalistic Checker for Duplicate Inputs (master...faster-dedup-working-rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14836
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155 2018-11-29T08:25:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyRubin opened pull request #14837: Stricter & More Performant Invariant Checking in CheckBlock (master...faster-dedup-working-rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14837
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162 2018-11-29T08:35:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #14387: Faster Input Deduplication Algorithm (master...faster-dedup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14387
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190 2018-11-29T09:13:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #14838: Use const in COutPoint class (master...20181129-const-null-outpoint) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14838
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226 2018-11-29T10:29:38  <fanquake> dongcarl I reckon that'd be too much pressure..
227 2018-11-29T10:29:56  <fanquake> dongcarl Also, not sure where you are at with turtles work, but you might want to have a look at #14342
228 2018-11-29T10:29:58  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14342 | threads: fix potential unitialized members in sched_param by theuni · Pull Request #14342 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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243 2018-11-29T10:59:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #14839: [rebase] threads: fix unitialized members in sched_param (master...rebased-fix-musl-sched) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14839
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247 2018-11-29T11:00:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #14342: threads: fix potential unitialized members in sched_param (master...fix-musl-sched) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14342
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279 2018-11-29T11:33:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] AmirAbrams opened pull request #14840: Remove duplicate libconsensus linking in test make (master...patch-4) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14840
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287 2018-11-29T11:55:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #14841: consensus: Move CheckBlock() call to critical section (master...20181129-checkblock-mutex) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14841
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291 2018-11-29T12:02:02  <fanquake> appveyor: the perpetually failing CI
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342 2018-11-29T14:55:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ariaamz opened pull request #14843: 0.17 (master...0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14843
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345 2018-11-29T14:55:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #14843: 0.17 (master...0.17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14843
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366 2018-11-29T15:56:14  <adiabat> saw sipa's mention of the work I'm doing on accumulators, I don't have anything published yet but if anyone's interested can discuss on #utreexo (or here, but might be off-topic)
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374 2018-11-29T16:40:35  <dongcarl> fanquake: Been on hold for a bit as I've been busy with other stuff... I'll take a look at your rebase for that PR
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389 2018-11-29T17:46:28  <promag> can't attend meeting :(
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401 2018-11-29T18:14:46  <promag> fanquake: the perpetually failing CI << I'm hoping #14670 fixes it
402 2018-11-29T18:14:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14670 | http: Fix HTTP server shutdown by promag · Pull Request #14670 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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407 2018-11-29T18:39:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #14845: [tests] Add wallet_balance.py (master...balance_tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14845
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411 2018-11-29T18:43:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #14803: consensus: Avoid data race in CBlock class (master...20181125-cblock-threadsafe) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14803
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423 2018-11-29T19:00:22  <provoostenator> Meeting?
424 2018-11-29T19:00:25  <wumpus> #startmeeting
425 2018-11-29T19:00:25  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 29 19:00:25 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
426 2018-11-29T19:00:25  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
427 2018-11-29T19:00:38  <sipa> oh, meeting!
428 2018-11-29T19:00:42  <dongcarl> hi
429 2018-11-29T19:00:59  <moneyball> hi
430 2018-11-29T19:01:04  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
431 2018-11-29T19:01:14  <moneyball> suggested topic: proposed meeting topics ahead of time
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433 2018-11-29T19:01:23  <meshcollider> hi
434 2018-11-29T19:01:25  <BlueMatt> topics: 0.17.1
435 2018-11-29T19:01:52  <wumpus> #topic high priority for review
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437 2018-11-29T19:02:30  <wumpus> current PRs: #14670 #13932 #14336 #14646
438 2018-11-29T19:02:32  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14670 | http: Fix HTTP server shutdown by promag · Pull Request #14670 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
439 2018-11-29T19:02:36  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13932 | Additional utility RPCs for PSBT by achow101 · Pull Request #13932 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
440 2018-11-29T19:02:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14646 | Add expansion cache functions to descriptors (unused for now) by sipa · Pull Request #14646 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
441 2018-11-29T19:02:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14336 | net: implement poll by pstratem · Pull Request #14336 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
442 2018-11-29T19:02:53  <kanzure> hi.
443 2018-11-29T19:03:48  <wumpus> anyone want to add or remove anything?
444 2018-11-29T19:04:07  <sipa> lgtm
445 2018-11-29T19:04:25  <meshcollider> Pieter already has one but it'd be great to have #14565
446 2018-11-29T19:04:28  <gmaxwell> whats the overlap with 0.17.1 tag?
447 2018-11-29T19:04:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14565 | Overhaul importmulti logic by sipa · Pull Request #14565 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
448 2018-11-29T19:04:43  <chenpo> hi
449 2018-11-29T19:05:05  <wumpus> does the 0.17.1 tag have any non-backports left?
450 2018-11-29T19:05:08  <gmaxwell> #14380
451 2018-11-29T19:05:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14380 | fix assert crash when specified change output spend size is unknown by instagibbs · Pull Request #14380 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
452 2018-11-29T19:05:25  <gmaxwell> is what I was thinking of.
453 2018-11-29T19:05:30  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/39
454 2018-11-29T19:06:09  <wumpus> let's add that one then
455 2018-11-29T19:06:32  <meshcollider> 14782 is sort-of not a backport
456 2018-11-29T19:06:41  <jnewbery> hi
457 2018-11-29T19:06:49  <wumpus> meshcollider: which one is the most-blocking?
458 2018-11-29T19:07:14  <wumpus> #14646 seems like it needs to go in before something else so looks like a typical candidate at least
459 2018-11-29T19:07:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14646 | Add expansion cache functions to descriptors (unused for now) by sipa · Pull Request #14646 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
460 2018-11-29T19:07:38  <meshcollider> Yeah don't remove that one
461 2018-11-29T19:08:19  <gmaxwell> The broken getbalance behavior should get fixed. It's an actual bug.
462 2018-11-29T19:08:40  <wumpus> that's only broken on 0.17 and not master?
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464 2018-11-29T19:08:56  <provoostenator> #14602
465 2018-11-29T19:08:58  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14602 | Bugfix: Correctly calculate balances when min_conf is used, and for getbalance("*") by luke-jr · Pull Request #14602 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
466 2018-11-29T19:09:15  <achow101> hi
467 2018-11-29T19:09:17  <wumpus> wait, I added #14782 which is the 0.17 backport
468 2018-11-29T19:09:19  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14782 | [0.17] Bugfix: Correctly calculate balances when min_conf is used, and for getbalance("*") by luke-jr · Pull Request #14782 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
469 2018-11-29T19:09:21  <jnewbery> I'm not clear what the behaviour is 'supposed' to be. There's no documentation or test coverage
470 2018-11-29T19:09:26  <gmaxwell> wumpus: not yet, there is another PR
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472 2018-11-29T19:09:41  <wumpus> why is a backport open before something is merged into master? is it signifiantly different?
473 2018-11-29T19:09:42  <provoostenator> Ah yes, it's already marked for backport.
474 2018-11-29T19:09:49  <meshcollider> The 0.17 backport of it is different yes
475 2018-11-29T19:09:53  <meshcollider> Because of the accounts removal
476 2018-11-29T19:09:57  <sipa> maybe the getbalance behaviour needs to be topic on its own>?
477 2018-11-29T19:09:57  <wumpus> right
478 2018-11-29T19:10:00  <gmaxwell> jnewbery: thats a fine concern, but it's not cool to break functionality just because there wasn't enough tests to stop you from doing so
479 2018-11-29T19:10:10  <meshcollider> ping luke-jr
480 2018-11-29T19:10:18  <wumpus> if there's any doubt it probably needs to stay as it was
481 2018-11-29T19:10:33  <gmaxwell> The alternative of going and reverting the breaking change is unfortunately too disruptive (I already tried).
482 2018-11-29T19:10:47  <meshcollider> Re-implementing the old behaviour without reintroducing account parameters is the issue
483 2018-11-29T19:10:54  <jnewbery> the new behaviour in the fix is different from pre-0.17
484 2018-11-29T19:11:15  <meshcollider> And it has some weird parameter type polymorphism
485 2018-11-29T19:11:18  <wumpus> well for 0.18, changing the behavior can be discussed if there's agood reason
486 2018-11-29T19:11:23  <sipa> gmaxwell: well given the removal of accounts, i think it's fair to say that anyone passing not-nothing as the account parameter to getbalance needs to change, and you can get the 0-conf behavior using getunconfirmedbalance
487 2018-11-29T19:11:25  <jnewbery> so before we decide whether it should be merged, we should figure out what the behavious should be, document it and cover it with tests so it's not regressed
488 2018-11-29T19:11:47  <provoostenator> getunconfirmedbalance _only_ includes unconfirmed balance afaik
489 2018-11-29T19:11:51  <sipa> oh
490 2018-11-29T19:12:00  <wumpus> for 0.17 it'd be good to go back to the old behavior because it was not announced in the release notes that it would change
491 2018-11-29T19:12:01  <sipa> ignore my suggestion, again
492 2018-11-29T19:12:02  <meshcollider> Add them together then :)
493 2018-11-29T19:12:18  <gmaxwell> if you add them you'll double count
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495 2018-11-29T19:12:32  <meshcollider> wumpus: that's why the 0.17 backport was opened already
496 2018-11-29T19:12:35  <provoostenator> It's useful in practice to be able to get the balance including unconfirmed, so you can compose a PSBT while you're waiting for confirmation.
497 2018-11-29T19:12:36  <BlueMatt> also for 0.17.1 this seems a bit too late to be figuring out
498 2018-11-29T19:12:43  <BlueMatt> we can revisit for 0.17.2 if there is one
499 2018-11-29T19:12:43  <provoostenator> (without doing math)
500 2018-11-29T19:13:11  <BlueMatt> but 0.17.0 currently cannot be self-built and bitcoin-qt opened on latest fedora/ubuntu release
501 2018-11-29T19:13:16  <BlueMatt> both of which have been out for a bit now
502 2018-11-29T19:13:17  <gmaxwell> It isn't just a question of unconfirmed or not, it's a question of your balance suddenly showing zero when you make a small payment.. because now your change is unconfirmed.
503 2018-11-29T19:13:29  <sipa> gmaxwell: getbalance includes change
504 2018-11-29T19:13:40  <sipa> just not unconfirmed incoming payments
505 2018-11-29T19:14:02  <sipa> that was the distinction between getbalance and getbalance *, afaik
506 2018-11-29T19:14:13  <wumpus> #topic getbalance
507 2018-11-29T19:14:16  <gmaxwell> Right
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509 2018-11-29T19:14:31  <gmaxwell> sipa: and thats also why you can't add getunconfirmedbalance.
510 2018-11-29T19:14:39  <jnewbery> for those without context, this is (mostly) my fault for removing accounts. The first parameter to getbalance was 'account', it was marked DEPRECATED with a warning saying 'don't use this'. I removed it and it turns out people were using it to sum up untrusted coins
511 2018-11-29T19:14:53  <sipa> you can simulate "getbalance *" using "getbalance minconf=1" + "getunconfirmedbalance" i guess
512 2018-11-29T19:14:56  <wumpus> BlueMatt: yes, let's discuss what to in include in 0.17.1 in the 0.17.1 topic
513 2018-11-29T19:15:00  <meshcollider> But the actual difference wasn't just unspent, it was untrusted, right?
514 2018-11-29T19:15:05  <sipa> meshcollider: indeed
515 2018-11-29T19:15:08  <meshcollider> Unconfirmed*
516 2018-11-29T19:15:27  <jnewbery> getbalance -minconf=0 includes unconfirmed but not untrusted coins (eg your change)
517 2018-11-29T19:15:40  <jnewbery> getbalance * 0 would (prior to 0.17) include untrusted
518 2018-11-29T19:16:00  <jnewbery> so for example if someone sent you an output, then RBF'ed it, you'd still see that in your getbalance * 0
519 2018-11-29T19:16:04  <meshcollider> as you pointed out on the PR though john, does that also include conflicting transactions and stuff too?
520 2018-11-29T19:16:22  <jnewbery> or RBF'ed it to you, you'd double count it
521 2018-11-29T19:16:29  <jnewbery> or you could have a negative balance
522 2018-11-29T19:16:57  <meshcollider> Thats not sane behaviour to keep then :/
523 2018-11-29T19:17:06  <wumpus> that sounds pretty broken
524 2018-11-29T19:17:08  <gmaxwell> I didn't think it included conflicteds, but actually it makes sense.
525 2018-11-29T19:17:11  <jnewbery> I don't know why people were using getbalance * 0, or what they were using it for. I've asked a few times on the PR but no-one can answer
526 2018-11-29T19:17:41  <gmaxwell> If you recall when we removed accounts I raised a concern that didn't we still need move to fixed people's negative balances... because we still had those reported from time to time.
527 2018-11-29T19:17:58  <jnewbery> ok, I've fixed that :)
528 2018-11-29T19:18:08  <gmaxwell> jnewbery: to see unconfirmed payments... it's certantly what I always did before I gave up on balances and just switched to looking at the unspent outputs directly
529 2018-11-29T19:18:09  <ryanofsky> It sounded to me like people were just using it to get unconfirmed balance without having two make two calls
530 2018-11-29T19:18:29  <provoostenator> That's exactly how I use it.
531 2018-11-29T19:18:42  <sipa> how about adding a "requiretrusted" parameter to getbalance...?
532 2018-11-29T19:18:43  <gmaxwell> ryanofsky: not just without having to make two calls, because getbalance included 0 conf trusted coins.
533 2018-11-29T19:18:52  <provoostenator> If you want to prepare a transaction to spend all, you need to enter the amount to send.
534 2018-11-29T19:18:53  <gmaxwell> ryanofsky: and the minconf parameter was added later
535 2018-11-29T19:19:01  <jnewbery> I think it's fine to have a balance including unconfirmeds if they're trusted (ie all inputs were yours). Having a balance containing unconfirmeds that aren't trusted and so can be double-accounted or worse doesn't make sense to me
536 2018-11-29T19:19:12  <meshcollider> sipa: the PR introduces a bool for trustedness
537 2018-11-29T19:19:18  <sipa> meshcollider: oh!
538 2018-11-29T19:19:36  <jnewbery> I strongly discourage any 'balance' that contains untrusted coins
539 2018-11-29T19:19:38  <sipa> does it allow counting untrusted, while excluding conflicting etc?
540 2018-11-29T19:19:44  <meshcollider> No
541 2018-11-29T19:19:53  <gmaxwell> jnewbery: I don't understand "trusted and so can be double-accounted" -- even a trusted payment could be conflicted
542 2018-11-29T19:20:00  <provoostenator> jnewbery: why? Isn't that implied when the user enters 0 instead of 1 confirmations?
543 2018-11-29T19:20:28  <meshcollider>  unconfirmed != untrusted though
544 2018-11-29T19:20:41  <gmaxwell> jnewbery: we _show_ unconfirmed payments in the wallet, so it's somewhat odd and confusing that we don't have "pending balance"
545 2018-11-29T19:21:10  <wumpus> the GUI does have a 'unconfirmed balance' IIRC?
546 2018-11-29T19:21:27  <sipa> showing untrusted balance sounds perfectly reasonable, but it shouldn't include conflicting/... things
547 2018-11-29T19:21:27  *** shesek has quit IRC
548 2018-11-29T19:21:27  *** hebasto has quit IRC
549 2018-11-29T19:21:43  <meshcollider> We could break the getbalance output and return an array of "confirmed":, "unconfirmed":, "conflicting:
550 2018-11-29T19:21:45  *** hebasto has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
551 2018-11-29T19:21:54  <jnewbery> for me 'pending balance' doesn't make sense if it can double-count conflicting transactions. It's worse that not having a pending balance at all
552 2018-11-29T19:21:55  *** shesek has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
553 2018-11-29T19:21:55  *** shesek has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
554 2018-11-29T19:22:02  <meshcollider> ^
555 2018-11-29T19:22:06  <sipa> jnewbery: i agree
556 2018-11-29T19:22:07  <morcos> yes, its not clear to me what the problem is with using getbalance and getunconfirmedbalance when using -cli and the GUI already does the right thing?
557 2018-11-29T19:22:07  <gmaxwell> In any case, you wanted the use case, the reason people use getbalance "*" is to (Attempt) to learn their pending balance.  What they'll have assuming nothing goes wrong.  Now if that was also double counting conflicteds and ending up negative, I think thats a bug. (and probably the origin of the negative balances I was concerned about before)
558 2018-11-29T19:22:14  <wumpus> users don't know what 'untrusted balance' is supposed to be, I think exposing these kind of implementation details on the interface is a bit confusing
559 2018-11-29T19:22:15  <provoostenator> I agree double counting is undesirable.
560 2018-11-29T19:22:20  <jnewbery> it will make users think their money has disappeared because once one of those conflicting transactions is confirmed their balance goes down
561 2018-11-29T19:22:39  <morcos> can someone clearly point out exactly what we can not do now (other than we didn't properly explain what was changing)
562 2018-11-29T19:22:43  <meshcollider> luke-jr: should be here to argue the other side
563 2018-11-29T19:22:45  <sipa> jnewbery: i think no getbalance* call should evr include conflicted things
564 2018-11-29T19:22:49  <provoostenator> It should probably use mempool rules to figure out which transaction to ignore.
565 2018-11-29T19:23:05  <sipa> provoostenator: some things do
566 2018-11-29T19:23:06  <meshcollider> IMO setting min_conf to 0 is enough?
567 2018-11-29T19:23:08  <gmaxwell> sipa: wait. I would think that it would include one side of a conflict...
568 2018-11-29T19:23:32  <sipa> gmaxwell: oh sure; terminology
569 2018-11-29T19:23:33  <wumpus> isn't it supposed to make one side of a conflict non-conflicting?
570 2018-11-29T19:23:46  <sipa> i guess by non-conflicting i mean "in the mempool" ?
571 2018-11-29T19:23:57  <wumpus> right
572 2018-11-29T19:24:01  <gmaxwell> Good! jnewbery's comment about balances going down confused me
573 2018-11-29T19:24:18  <sipa> gmaxwell: or do you think unconfirmed untrusted not-in-the-mempool unconflicted things should be counted?
574 2018-11-29T19:24:22  <jnewbery> sorry, I've got to step away now. My main point is that the expected behaviour should be well documented and covered by tests
575 2018-11-29T19:24:32  *** brianhoffman_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
576 2018-11-29T19:24:33  <gmaxwell> sipa: no. I don't.
577 2018-11-29T19:24:37  <sipa> ok, good
578 2018-11-29T19:24:52  <jnewbery> I've written a test script for wallet balances, but we need to agree what the behaviour *should* be before merging any of this stuff
579 2018-11-29T19:25:04  <meshcollider> Agreed
580 2018-11-29T19:25:08  <provoostenator> If something gets confirmed against what you would expect fromt he mempool then a balance change is fine imo, but not otherwise.
581 2018-11-29T19:25:23  <sipa> so how about getbalance requires the minconf as directed, and (if trusted is directed, trusted, otherwise in-the-mempool)
582 2018-11-29T19:26:03  <provoostenator> sipa: the only criteria for "trusted" is whether it's change, right?
583 2018-11-29T19:26:09  <gmaxwell> I think if sipa is right that the behavior can be emulated by getbalance minconf=1 + getunconfirmed then at least we have a workaround.  Though it's always confusing to have a deault behavior which cannot be explained by some setting of the arguments
584 2018-11-29T19:26:14  <sipa> provoostenator: or confirmed
585 2018-11-29T19:27:27  <gmaxwell> "What is the default minconf setting of getbalance? Mu.  getbalance output shows minconf=0 for trusted outputs, and minconf=1 for others.  so trusted defaults to true? No, there is no trusted argument."
586 2018-11-29T19:27:33  *** brianhoffman has quit IRC
587 2018-11-29T19:27:34  *** brianhoffman_ is now known as brianhoffman
588 2018-11-29T19:28:18  <sipa> gmaxwell: #14602 includes a trusted_only argument that is true by default
589 2018-11-29T19:28:22  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14602 | Bugfix: Correctly calculate balances when min_conf is used, and for getbalance("*") by luke-jr · Pull Request #14602 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
590 2018-11-29T19:28:23  <provoostenator> I know the wallet makes a distinction between change and non-change when it comes to spending, which is fine, but I don't think we should do that for balance. So by default minconf=0 should show change and non-change, but not replaced-by.
591 2018-11-29T19:28:39  <ryanofsky> just want to note, it looks like we didn't delete the GetLegacyBalance function, so it would be trivial to restore the old getbalance "*" behavior, if we can't figure out something better right now
592 2018-11-29T19:28:44  <gmaxwell> I know 14602 does. I'm trying to imagine a world where we keep things as they are and try to release note ourselves out of it
593 2018-11-29T19:29:28  <provoostenator> (as for 0.17 I'm fine with release-noting our way of it)
594 2018-11-29T19:29:42  <sipa> oh, i was just trying to establish what the desired behavior is before we go discuss what to do about it
595 2018-11-29T19:30:11  <provoostenator> sipa: that's a good idea
596 2018-11-29T19:30:37  <sipa> and i think there is at least a rough conclusion? allow counting untrusted, but never count not-in-mempool?
597 2018-11-29T19:31:12  <gmaxwell> Right, I think the desired behavior is that balances shows confirmed + trusted-in-mempool-0conf.  And that you be able to adjust the threshold for confirmed and turn the trusted-in-mempool-zeroconf on and off. And if you make the confirmed=0, it should still only count in-mempool
598 2018-11-29T19:31:39  <provoostenator> (and maybe add a 4th argument along the lines of unconfirmed_change_only
599 2018-11-29T19:31:53  <gmaxwell> (and potentially the arguments should just be  minconf_for_not_you=1 minconf_for_from_you=0 )
600 2018-11-29T19:32:15  <sipa> i think the default of minconf=0 but trusted_only=true makes sense; if you choose trusted_only=false it should still only include confirmed or mempool things
601 2018-11-29T19:32:21  <morcos> sipa: the problem with never counting not-in-mempool is if you spend a 10 BTC input to pay 0.001 BTC, and that tx doesn't go in your mempool then your balance goes down by 10 mysteriously, but thats hard to solve
602 2018-11-29T19:32:36  <sipa> morcos: yeah...
603 2018-11-29T19:32:53  <gmaxwell> morcos: yes, I think thats hard to solve, also it's kinda good that it goes down in that you're actually screwed for the moment :P
604 2018-11-29T19:33:07  <gmaxwell> like if that txn doesn't confirm, your funds are actually stuck.
605 2018-11-29T19:33:38  <gmaxwell> (until you abandon the transaction)
606 2018-11-29T19:33:41  <wumpus> right
607 2018-11-29T19:34:07  <gmaxwell> I guess I can argue the consequences either way, I can imagine someone losing a wallet file with lots of bitcoin in it because it showed a low balance due to some easily abandoned transactions.
608 2018-11-29T19:34:08  <sipa> so i think we can work out how to implement this for 0.17 and 0.18 on the PRs or issues; no need for further design here?
609 2018-11-29T19:34:52  <gmaxwell> I thought luke's PR basically implemented what we came up with here. But I'm not sure.
610 2018-11-29T19:35:07  <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm not sure about the mempool part
611 2018-11-29T19:35:21  <wumpus> gmaxwell: people are likely to use 'getbalance' without parameters in that case, to check wallet balance, not the specific combo that this is about
612 2018-11-29T19:35:28  <gmaxwell> certantly if we're showing all unconfirmeds, including both sides of a conflict, thats bad. :P
613 2018-11-29T19:36:24  <provoostenator> Luke's PR adds a trusted_only as a first parameter. I find that a fairly confusing term, so hopefully we can avoid it with the ^
614 2018-11-29T19:36:37  <sipa> with the what?
615 2018-11-29T19:37:02  <wumpus> trusted_only sounds really confusing to users, if you make a parameter like that you need to carefully explain in the RPC help what 'truste'd means in this setting
616 2018-11-29T19:37:13  <sipa> agree, it needs documentation for sure
617 2018-11-29T19:37:23  <wumpus> it's far from obvious, I don't know if we picked a good term for it
618 2018-11-29T19:37:36  <provoostenator> With what you said: "allow counting untrusted, but never count not-in-mempool"
619 2018-11-29T19:38:07  <provoostenator> It's already a default, so maybe just a matter of renaming and documenting it.
620 2018-11-29T19:38:17  *** timothy has quit IRC
621 2018-11-29T19:38:47  <sipa> provoostenator: it can certainly be explained more friendly as "Whether unconfirmed payments from others are excluded"
622 2018-11-29T19:38:58  <provoostenator> 1. zero_conf_change_only (default: false)
623 2018-11-29T19:39:07  <wumpus> sipa: that sounds much better
624 2018-11-29T19:39:15  <sipa> i think we're getting in the weeds here
625 2018-11-29T19:39:34  <wumpus> yes, time for next otpic?
626 2018-11-29T19:39:41  <sipa> agree
627 2018-11-29T19:39:43  <wumpus> #topic 0.17.1
628 2018-11-29T19:39:43  <provoostenator> Next topic sounds good.
629 2018-11-29T19:39:50  <BlueMatt> release time!
630 2018-11-29T19:39:52  <wumpus> 20 minutes left
631 2018-11-29T19:39:53  *** michaelsdunn1 has quit IRC
632 2018-11-29T19:40:01  <BlueMatt> cool, release in 20 minutes? :p
633 2018-11-29T19:40:02  <provoostenator> BlueMatt is the main reason Ubutnu?
634 2018-11-29T19:40:07  <meshcollider> Lol
635 2018-11-29T19:40:16  <BlueMatt> provoostenator: also fedora, debian testing, .......
636 2018-11-29T19:40:22  <provoostenator> Because an alternative could be 0.17.0.2 like we did with MacOS. Though I'm fine with proper 0.17.1 too
637 2018-11-29T19:40:25  <wumpus> still lots of backports open https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/39 I guess they need review, or at least merging
638 2018-11-29T19:40:33  <BlueMatt> provoostenator: also there are a number of other bugs and backports that are done, etc
639 2018-11-29T19:40:36  <sipa> we have a bunch of bugfixes lined up too
640 2018-11-29T19:40:37  <wumpus> nah let's do a proper release
641 2018-11-29T19:40:40  <sipa> it may be time for a 0.17.1
642 2018-11-29T19:40:41  <BlueMatt> things already merged on master probably worth backporting
643 2018-11-29T19:40:43  <wumpus> it's too late for 0.17.0.2 IMO
644 2018-11-29T19:40:46  <BlueMatt> cause there are a bunch there
645 2018-11-29T19:41:16  <provoostenator> Right, that would involve branching off of the 0.17.0.1 tag and get weird.
646 2018-11-29T19:41:19  <wumpus> .z releases are really 'oops we did a release and need to fix this thing up'
647 2018-11-29T19:41:20  <BlueMatt> but, at least IMO, its super annoying that you cant build+run bitcoin-qt on the now-several-months-old versions of various OSs, and I presume other rolling distros (eg arch) also have this issue
648 2018-11-29T19:41:24  <wumpus> not for month later
649 2018-11-29T19:41:33  <instagibbs> I keep crashing, get 14380 in please ;P
650 2018-11-29T19:41:50  <BlueMatt> so I would prefer we not wait around for fixing getbalance :p
651 2018-11-29T19:41:56  <wumpus> I agree with BlueMatt on this
652 2018-11-29T19:42:05  <BlueMatt> #14380 looks more than merge-able from where I'm sitting in the ack department
653 2018-11-29T19:42:08  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14380 | fix assert crash when specified change output spend size is unknown by instagibbs · Pull Request #14380 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
654 2018-11-29T19:42:13  <BlueMatt> and not too hard to backport
655 2018-11-29T19:42:44  <sipa> can people have a look at #14780 too?
656 2018-11-29T19:42:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14780 | PSBT backports to 0.17 by sipa · Pull Request #14780 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
657 2018-11-29T19:42:59  <sipa> (i'm mostly unfamiliar with the backports process)
658 2018-11-29T19:43:01  <wumpus> there is no agreement on getbalance yet, it can wait for 0.17.2
659 2018-11-29T19:43:07  <wumpus> sipa: sure!
660 2018-11-29T19:43:14  <sipa> thanks
661 2018-11-29T19:43:59  <wumpus> sipa: please make sure you include the commit metadata (Github-Pull: #.... and Rebased-From: <commit>)
662 2018-11-29T19:44:10  <BlueMatt> next topic: the wall of text I just posted to bitcoin-dev :p
663 2018-11-29T19:44:13  <wumpus> (see the commits in other backport PRs such as https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14835)
664 2018-11-29T19:44:32  <sipa> BlueMatt: not there
665 2018-11-29T19:44:34  <wumpus> next topic is moneyball's
666 2018-11-29T19:44:41  <moneyball> hi
667 2018-11-29T19:44:41  <BlueMatt> err, topic suggestion
668 2018-11-29T19:44:50  <BlueMatt> anything else on 0.17.1?
669 2018-11-29T19:45:01  <BlueMatt> or just generally a "lets take things that we can merge today, do backports, and get this thing going"
670 2018-11-29T19:45:04  <provoostenator> BlueMatt: "IRC logs have been disabled due to the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)."
671 2018-11-29T19:45:16  <wumpus> BlueMatt: +1
672 2018-11-29T19:45:37  <provoostenator> +1
673 2018-11-29T19:45:57  <wumpus> #topic proposed meeting topics ahead of time (moneyball)
674 2018-11-29T19:46:02  <moneyball> I’d like to suggest that people can propose Core weekly meeting topics anytime throughout the week in this IRC channel using #proposedmeetingtopic tag. I will collect these throughout the week, add them to a gist that anyone can have a look at during the week. The primary intended benefit of this is to allow people to know which topics are going to be discussed ahead of time allowing them to prepare.
675 2018-11-29T19:46:26  <moneyball> Any concerns?
676 2018-11-29T19:46:31  <BlueMatt> seems reasonable
677 2018-11-29T19:46:36  <provoostenator> +1
678 2018-11-29T19:46:38  <BlueMatt> easier than remembering to mention them in meeting
679 2018-11-29T19:46:42  <Chris_Stewart_5> +1
680 2018-11-29T19:46:46  <meshcollider> +1
681 2018-11-29T19:46:52  <BlueMatt> next topic? #thatwaseasy
682 2018-11-29T19:46:59  *** marpme has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
683 2018-11-29T19:47:03  <wumpus> yes, good idea, let's see how it goes
684 2018-11-29T19:47:08  <moneyball> Ok I will start doing it!
685 2018-11-29T19:47:15  <wumpus> BlueMatt: ok what was your proposal, I'm not in #bitcoin-dev
686 2018-11-29T19:47:22  <provoostenator> And there's no logs..
687 2018-11-29T19:47:32  <BlueMatt> oh, i meant bitcoin-dev ml but it hasnt passed moderation yet
688 2018-11-29T19:47:36  <BlueMatt> anyway, I can tl;dr it in two lines
689 2018-11-29T19:47:53  <BlueMatt> in lightning (and other related payment channel-y systems) you have the general issue of pre-signing transactions
690 2018-11-29T19:48:06  <BlueMatt> so you have to predict what the feerate on the network will be in the future at the time your counterparty misbehaves
691 2018-11-29T19:48:09  <wumpus> #topic pre-signing transactions (BlueMatt)
692 2018-11-29T19:48:09  <BlueMatt> this is....obviously insane
693 2018-11-29T19:48:18  <BlueMatt> instead, we'd (obviously) like to use cpfp
694 2018-11-29T19:48:38  <BlueMatt> but there are the cpfp rbf-pinning-ish issues where your counterparty can fill up the package with big-bug-low-ish-feerate txn
695 2018-11-29T19:48:43  <BlueMatt> so that you cant cpfp it yourself
696 2018-11-29T19:49:03  <BlueMatt> I'd like to propose we tweak the cpfp/rbf rules
697 2018-11-29T19:49:04  <BlueMatt> The last transaction which is added to a package of dependent transactions in the mempool must:
698 2018-11-29T19:49:04  <BlueMatt>  * Have no more than one unconfirmed parent,
699 2018-11-29T19:49:04  <BlueMatt>  * Be of size no greater than 1K in virtual size.
700 2018-11-29T19:49:25  <BlueMatt> (we'd, in practice, first decrease the package size limits by 1 1K-virtual-size transaction, then make it so that the last one must meet those rules)
701 2018-11-29T19:49:47  <BlueMatt> this allows for cpfp by letting each side of a lightning channel independantly cpfp without considering what the other side may be doing
702 2018-11-29T19:49:48  <provoostenator> Current RBF rules for reference: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0125.mediawiki#Implementation_Details
703 2018-11-29T19:50:08  <BlueMatt> that may be too much to think about before reading the full ml post, but mostly it just covers background material
704 2018-11-29T19:50:18  <BlueMatt>  /fin
705 2018-11-29T19:50:29  *** michaelsdunn1 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
706 2018-11-29T19:50:29  *** phwalkr has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
707 2018-11-29T19:50:37  <BlueMatt> (oh, also this fix requires package relay, which is another can of worms itself)
708 2018-11-29T19:50:40  <sipa> here is another earlier proposed modification: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-February/015717.html
709 2018-11-29T19:50:47  <sipa> BlueMatt: oh dear
710 2018-11-29T19:51:16  <BlueMatt> well, luckily only one-deep package relay and only for small-ish packages
711 2018-11-29T19:51:19  <BlueMatt> or at least small dependents
712 2018-11-29T19:51:48  <instagibbs> sorry how does cpfp get pinned again?
713 2018-11-29T19:51:57  <instagibbs> RBF pinning I know
714 2018-11-29T19:52:05  <BlueMatt> instagibbs: A -> B where B is 100KB but low feerate, but high fee. its the same issue for lightning
715 2018-11-29T19:52:11  <BlueMatt> cause you cant add to the package cause the package is max size
716 2018-11-29T19:52:22  <instagibbs> ah
717 2018-11-29T19:52:33  <sipa> my response to this is "eh... sure.... but how?"
718 2018-11-29T19:52:34  <instagibbs> so it's not something you can attach B'
719 2018-11-29T19:52:36  <BlueMatt> so you have to add to the package by rbf which means you have to increase total size, if you can even do that, which you'd have to tweak rbf rules to let you replace B with C, but you cant do that today
720 2018-11-29T19:52:46  <BlueMatt> sipa: hmm?
721 2018-11-29T19:52:52  <sipa> you need package relay...
722 2018-11-29T19:53:17  <sipa> that's not just a small few-lines policy change
723 2018-11-29T19:53:19  <provoostenator> An alternative, I forgot what the problem was, is to drop RBF rule "3. The replacement transaction pays an absolute fee of at least the sum paid by the original transactions." and only consider fee rate of the replacement, regardless of size.
724 2018-11-29T19:53:23  <sdaftuar> so i think package relay is a whole other topic
725 2018-11-29T19:53:27  <BlueMatt> I have another bitcoin-dev post coming discussing package relay, but we have a few options there, if we just want to solve package relay for contracting applications like lightning, we can do so with limited consideration, I think
726 2018-11-29T19:53:48  <BlueMatt> if we want a more general solution I still think its possible but requires more in-depth ATMP refactoring
727 2018-11-29T19:54:00  <sipa> and P2P changes...
728 2018-11-29T19:54:05  <BlueMatt> assuming we do at least one of those two, this is a simple (I think) policy change that I'm hoping people here dont object to
729 2018-11-29T19:54:15  <BlueMatt> possibly, though actaully not neccessarily
730 2018-11-29T19:54:21  <BlueMatt> but, probably
731 2018-11-29T19:54:34  <sipa> this sounds very preliminary to me
732 2018-11-29T19:54:48  <BlueMatt> i presume you mean the package relay part?
733 2018-11-29T19:54:48  *** phwalkr has quit IRC
734 2018-11-29T19:54:59  <BlueMatt> the policy rule here is pretty straightforward, I think?
735 2018-11-29T19:55:06  <BlueMatt> and not very preliminary, again assuming some form of package relay
736 2018-11-29T19:55:32  <sipa> i don't understand how you can say it's not preliminary, while relying on something we have no idea about yet
737 2018-11-29T19:55:49  <meshcollider> Shall we discuss next week instead after reading the ml
738 2018-11-29T19:55:50  <gmaxwell> MAGIC
739 2018-11-29T19:55:55  <BlueMatt> heh, sdaftuar and I have been batting package relay back and forth for months, but, whatever
740 2018-11-29T19:56:03  <BlueMatt> agreed we need a harder proposal for package relay
741 2018-11-29T19:56:11  <sdaftuar> well i think it'd be useful to layout the design goals for a package relay ssytem
742 2018-11-29T19:56:12  <BlueMatt> anyway, yes, we'll discuss package relay on the ml and then come back to this
743 2018-11-29T19:56:13  <sipa> BlueMatt: yes i'd like to see a proposal for that :)
744 2018-11-29T19:56:16  <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: the point is that the policy change justification is a black box to us for the moment. :P
745 2018-11-29T19:56:20  <BlueMatt> also what sdaftuar said
746 2018-11-29T19:56:28  <BlueMatt> this is also a motivator for package relay
747 2018-11-29T19:56:36  <BlueMatt> as its yet another thing to feed into the design goals
748 2018-11-29T19:56:57  <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I mean if you presume package relay it isnt at all a black box?
749 2018-11-29T19:56:58  <BlueMatt> huh
750 2018-11-29T19:57:05  <BlueMatt> anyway, -> ml
751 2018-11-29T19:57:06  <provoostenator> Topic suggestion: dandelion stempool relay :-P
752 2018-11-29T19:57:14  * sdaftuar hides
753 2018-11-29T19:57:14  <BlueMatt> 4 minutes, GO
754 2018-11-29T19:57:19  <BlueMatt> err, 3
755 2018-11-29T19:57:27  <instagibbs> sdaftuar, you ahve 3 minutes to resolve it
756 2018-11-29T19:58:19  <wumpus> #topic wallet maintainer
757 2018-11-29T19:58:42  <wumpus> meshcollider has shown interest in becoming wallet maintainer!
758 2018-11-29T19:59:01  <provoostenator> Awesome
759 2018-11-29T19:59:03  * sipa offers condolences
760 2018-11-29T19:59:12  <sipa> :)
761 2018-11-29T19:59:21  <provoostenator> Anyoe against, no, done. End meeting :-)
762 2018-11-29T19:59:31  <wumpus> which is great news, I think he'd be good at his, many of his his contributions have been to the wallet
763 2018-11-29T19:59:33  <meshcollider> :)
764 2018-11-29T19:59:59  <wumpus> and he's been active contributor for quite a while
765 2018-11-29T20:00:00  <sipa> more seriously, sounds great to me
766 2018-11-29T20:00:05  <achow101> +1
767 2018-11-29T20:00:05  <wumpus> yes!
768 2018-11-29T20:00:27  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
769 2018-11-29T20:00:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vim88 opened pull request #14846: Docs: Adds development guidelines about Scripts shebang to developer-notes.md. (master...add_scripts_development_guidelines) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14846
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771 2018-11-29T20:00:41  <wumpus> ok, that was a quick topic, was intending to bring it up sooner but BlueMatt kind of ninja'd it :)
772 2018-11-29T20:00:46  <wumpus> #endmeeting
773 2018-11-29T20:00:46  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Nov 29 20:00:46 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
774 2018-11-29T20:00:46  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-11-29-19.00.html
775 2018-11-29T20:00:46  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-11-29-19.00.txt
776 2018-11-29T20:00:46  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-11-29-19.00.log.html
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778 2018-11-29T20:01:34  <provoostenator> So have we figured out what a mainainter actually does? Shepharding PR's on the topic and some sort of super ACK?
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780 2018-11-29T20:01:55  <meshcollider> I don't want a super ACK ;)
781 2018-11-29T20:02:22  <provoostenator> By super ACK I mean that you would consider it reviewed by enough compentent people.
782 2018-11-29T20:02:25  <wumpus> he decides when to merge the stuff
783 2018-11-29T20:02:26  <provoostenator> More of a meta-ACK
784 2018-11-29T20:02:32  <BlueMatt> no, definitely no such thing as super ack
785 2018-11-29T20:02:36  <BlueMatt> super-concept-ack, though, yes :)
786 2018-11-29T20:03:10  <wumpus> "consider it reviewed by enough compentent people", that's more or less the idea yes
787 2018-11-29T20:03:30  <wumpus> understand the changes where possible
788 2018-11-29T20:03:37  <provoostenator> That sounds good.
789 2018-11-29T20:03:41  <wumpus> unless it's coin selection he opted out of that :)
790 2018-11-29T20:03:47  <meshcollider> ^ lol
791 2018-11-29T20:03:59  <achow101> coin selection? what's wrong with that?
792 2018-11-29T20:04:18  <achow101> it's super simple and not at all hard to understand :p
793 2018-11-29T20:04:31  <meshcollider> Trivial even :p
794 2018-11-29T20:04:31  <provoostenator> You get a coin, you get a coin, everyone gets a coin!
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797 2018-11-29T20:04:51  <sipa> we'll just ask Bob who gets which coin
798 2018-11-29T20:05:08  <BlueMatt> sipa: it was pointed out that the above policy doesnt, entirely rely on package relay - eg if you have a transaction A that you want to confirm, today, you pay a feerate that is reasonable for today and hope that that's enough to get confirmed later...well obviously if it isnt maybe you're still gonna meet the get-into-mempool limit even if not get-mined-limit
799 2018-11-29T20:05:35  <BlueMatt> so its still a significant improvement over today
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830 2018-11-29T21:03:51  <jnewbery> sorry, missed the end of the meeting, but big ACK for meshcollider being wallet maintainer 🎉
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833 2018-11-29T21:10:10  <meshcollider> jnewbery: thank you!
834 2018-11-29T21:10:35  <luke-jr> [19:38:58] <provoostenator> 1. zero_conf_change_only (default: false) <-- that's too behaviour-specific IMO
835 2018-11-29T21:13:33  <luke-jr> I can very well imagine the definition of trusted being revised in the future
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853 2018-11-29T22:13:52  <zallarak> Is there any sort of prioritization among open issues? I picked one up to start with, and now in finding the next one to work on, was wondering how to choose.
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856 2018-11-29T22:27:50  <jnewbery> zallarak: any testing/review of PRs in 'high priority for review' is always appreciated: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
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858 2018-11-29T22:29:22  <hebasto> wumpus: hi, regarding #14409 "This absolutely needs testing in a functional test." Should I submit another PR for this functional test or should it be as another commit in the same PR?
859 2018-11-29T22:29:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14409 | utils and libraries: Make blocksdir always net specific by hebasto · Pull Request #14409 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
860 2018-11-29T22:29:31  <zallarak> jnewbery: excellent, will do.
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862 2018-11-29T22:30:58  <jnewbery> hebasto: same PR please (so they can be reviewed and merged together)
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864 2018-11-29T22:31:17  <hebasto> jnewbery: ty
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883 2018-11-29T22:53:15  <moneyball> Here is the gist I created for weekly meeting topics #proposedmeetingtopic https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
884 2018-11-29T22:54:15  <moneyball> Perhaps this link is pinned to the channel like the logs for easy access
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903 2018-11-29T23:12:29  <promag> meshcollider: congrats!
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906 2018-11-29T23:17:42  <meshcollider> promag: thank you!
907 2018-11-29T23:17:50  <meshcollider> moneyball: +1 for pin
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928 2018-11-29T23:53:03  <gleb> Who I should ask to add me to that ping list at the beginning of the meeting? wumpus ? I keep coming one hour later...
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