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 34 2019-07-05T01:19:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #16339: doc: add reduce-memory.md (master...doc-reduce-memory-usage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16339
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 37 2019-07-05T01:19:57  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/dfdcb3dfe535...1088b90cbae3
 38 2019-07-05T01:19:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1ac454a Hennadii Stepanov: Enable ShellCheck rules
 39 2019-07-05T01:20:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1088b90 fanquake: Merge #16327: scripts and tools: Update ShellCheck linter
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 42 2019-07-05T01:20:57  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16327: scripts and tools: Update ShellCheck linter (master...20190702-shellcheck) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16327
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 52 2019-07-05T01:55:21  <luke-jr> re AVX512, someone mentioned using it causes CPUs to overheat and clock down? so even a simple benchmark might not work out :/
 53 2019-07-05T01:56:46  <sipa> luke-jr: using avx512 instructions on some cpus causes it to clock down; nothing related to overheating
 54 2019-07-05T01:58:10  <luke-jr> hm, even just using it once?
 55 2019-07-05T01:58:40  <luke-jr> so it'd break parallel benchmarking, but not serial (not sure parallel was even viable to begin with)
 56 2019-07-05T02:01:09  <sipa> how much it clocks down depends on how many cores you're using it simultaneously
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 59 2019-07-05T02:09:55  <jb55> why does it do that... overheating protection?
 60 2019-07-05T02:10:20  <jb55> seems weird
 61 2019-07-05T02:10:31  <luke-jr> sounds like overheat protection to me too :x
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 63 2019-07-05T02:10:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1088b90cbae3...4f378ac30cf6
 64 2019-07-05T02:10:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 08c721d nicolas.dorier: [MSVC] Copy build output to src/ automatically after build
 65 2019-07-05T02:10:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4f378ac fanquake: Merge #16308: [MSVC] Copy build output to src/ automatically after build
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 68 2019-07-05T02:11:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16308: [MSVC] Copy build output to src/ automatically after build (master...build/copy-in-msbuild) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16308
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 70 2019-07-05T02:13:44  <jb55> googling avx512 throttling returns this https://lemire.me/blog/2018/08/15/the-dangers-of-avx-512-throttling-a-3-impact/
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 88 2019-07-05T03:01:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #16341: Introduce ScriptPubKeyMan interface and use it for key and script management (aka wallet boxes) (master...box-the-wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16341
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 90 2019-07-05T03:02:20  <achow101> meshcollider: ^^
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 95 2019-07-05T03:14:05  <meshcollider> \o/
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 98 2019-07-05T03:22:59  <meshcollider> 86 commits lol
 99 2019-07-05T03:23:06  <meshcollider> That'll be really fun to review
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101 2019-07-05T03:25:00  <achow101> A lot of them are really small
102 2019-07-05T03:25:12  <achow101> So I'll be squashing them
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104 2019-07-05T03:30:39  <jb55> https://github.blog/2019-07-01-mark-files-as-viewed/ haven't tried this yet, I wish it was for hunks/commits instead of files
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107 2019-07-05T03:34:35  <tryphe> jb55, i noticed that feature and was wondering if they get unmarked as viewed if there are modified changes
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109 2019-07-05T03:36:44  <hebasto> tryphe: yes, they get unmarked.
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111 2019-07-05T03:37:31  <tryphe> hebasto++
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121 2019-07-05T04:08:45  <fanquake> probably worth asking jamesob if he's seen any issues with CPUs overheating while benchmarking the AVX512 PR.
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125 2019-07-05T04:18:40  <fanquake> I've had a look over the build system changes in that PR, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13989#issuecomment-508623934, but don't have a machine that supports AVX512 to test any performance improvements on.
126 2019-07-05T04:19:17  <jb55> achow101: fwiw I don't think those need squashed, they seem like reasonable sized commits to me
127 2019-07-05T04:19:19  <fanquake> sipa It'd be great to have you or cfields take another look over, or Concept ACK / NACK that PR.
128 2019-07-05T04:20:26  <jb55> achow101: actually I appreciate that they are cleanly separated, makes review easier, at least for me.
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138 2019-07-05T04:53:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #16342: Backport #16250 for 0.18 (0.18...201906-signrawerror-regression-018) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16342
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167 2019-07-05T07:35:32  <fanquake> promag: thanks
168 2019-07-05T07:36:04  <promag> fanquake: np!
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247 2019-07-05T11:17:49  <fanquake> wumpus could you take a look at 13989, even just a concept ACK / NACK ?
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288 2019-07-05T13:04:24  <wumpus> fanquake: sure!
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312 2019-07-05T14:43:53  <jamesob> fanquake: nah, benchmarked the avx512 PR mayber twice (for a total of ~2 hours runtime) and didn't see any cpu heat problems. But that was on a desktop machine that's well cooled
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314 2019-07-05T14:46:08  <wumpus> where does that concern come from? is that a known issue that using AVX512 heats up CPUs more than other instructions?
315 2019-07-05T14:48:04  <fanquake> wumpus: 09:55:22 <luke-jr> re AVX512, someone mentioned using it causes CPUs to overheat and clock down? so even a simple benchmark might not work out :/
316 2019-07-05T14:48:27  <fanquake> jamesob: cheers 👍
317 2019-07-05T14:49:03  <wumpus> ok
318 2019-07-05T14:50:10  <fanquake> wumpus: although see the replies above, supposedly it’s actually just clocking down.
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321 2019-07-05T14:51:00  <wumpus> I think in practice it's hard to ascribe heating to certain instructions, bitcoind validation has always been a risky workload for computers with bad heat management
322 2019-07-05T14:52:19  <wumpus> hhmm apparently it's really a thing that people from cloudflare etc have writetn about https://lemire.me/blog/2018/08/13/the-dangers-of-avx-512-throttling-myth-or-reality/
323 2019-07-05T14:52:44  <wumpus> thanks intel !
324 2019-07-05T14:53:23  <promag> what is the min qt currently?
325 2019-07-05T14:53:24  <wumpus> in any case if you disable AVX512 on a system this will cause bitcoind to not use it too
326 2019-07-05T14:53:36  <fanquake> promag: should be 5.5.1
327 2019-07-05T14:53:42  <wumpus> and newer / properly cooled chips might still benefit from it
328 2019-07-05T14:53:43  <promag> thanks
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330 2019-07-05T14:54:53  <wumpus> then again, I'm always a bit skeptical with using the newest instruction set extensions for hashing etc, probably, the kind of CPUs that have this are fast enough to not be bottlenecked by hashing in the first place
331 2019-07-05T14:55:15  <wumpus> it probably pays off more to use special instructions on lower end hardware
332 2019-07-05T14:55:24  <promag> wumpus: good point
333 2019-07-05T14:59:33  <wumpus> why is no one doing this for ARM? :)
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337 2019-07-05T15:00:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors closed pull request #15424: [wallet] wallet-tool: command to remove key metadata (master...2019/02/wallet_tool_remove_metadata) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15424
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350 2019-07-05T15:11:39  <provoostenator> Random review beg #15457 for fans of sandboxed operating systems.
351 2019-07-05T15:11:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15457 | Check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify by Sjors · Pull Request #15457 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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354 2019-07-05T15:19:59  <wumpus> provoostenator: thanks, kind of lost track of that one
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357 2019-07-05T15:34:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/4f378ac30cf6...8c69fae94410
358 2019-07-05T15:34:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c1c91bb Sjors Provoost: [build] detect std::system or ::wsystem
359 2019-07-05T15:34:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cc3ad56 Sjors Provoost: [build] MSVC: set HAVE_SYSTEM for desktop apps
360 2019-07-05T15:34:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f874e14 Sjors Provoost: [build]: check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify
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363 2019-07-05T15:35:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #15457: Check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify (master...2019/02/std__system) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15457
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365 2019-07-05T15:35:54  <provoostenator> wumpus: thanks!
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382 2019-07-05T16:35:37  <emilengler> I currently have problems with bitcoin-cli to read an integer value on a new command I've implemented
383 2019-07-05T16:35:43  <emilengler> With the JSONRPC however it works fine
384 2019-07-05T16:36:06  <emilengler> bitcoin-cli says "JSON value is not an integer as expected"
385 2019-07-05T16:36:26  <emilengler> Can someone help me?
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387 2019-07-05T16:39:46  <sipa> emilengler: bitcoin-cli knows which arguments to treat as strings and which as json
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389 2019-07-05T16:39:57  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #16344: [build]: use #if HAVE_SYSTEM instead of defined(HAVE_SYSTEM) (master...2019/07/system-ifdef) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16344
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391 2019-07-05T16:40:27  <provoostenator> ^ sorry for the case of "this refactor can't possibly hurt"
392 2019-07-05T16:41:21  <sipa> emilengler: if that information is wrong, if you write 5 on the command line, it will be sent in json-rpc as the string "5" rather than the integer 5
393 2019-07-05T16:41:47  <emilengler> sipa: Thanks for letting me know but how does "generatetoaddress" solves the problem?
394 2019-07-05T16:42:01  <emilengler> There the first argument is an integer
395 2019-07-05T16:42:46  <sipa> bitcoin-cli knows that the first argument to generatetoaddress is to be interpreted as json instead of as a string
396 2019-07-05T16:43:36  <emilengler> sipa: Ok, thank you I will take a look at it
397 2019-07-05T16:44:34  <provoostenator> emilengler: it does that here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/rpc/client.cpp#L31
398 2019-07-05T16:44:59  <sipa> yup
399 2019-07-05T16:45:25  <emilengler> provoostenator, that was exactly what I was looking for, thanks
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401 2019-07-05T16:47:12  <emilengler> Thanks, it works now :)
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411 2019-07-05T17:16:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] emilengler opened pull request #16345: RPC: Add getblockbyheight (master...getblockbyheight) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16345
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419 2019-07-05T17:41:07  <wumpus> provoostenator: I had kind of assumed you'd have tested #15457 on a sandboxed system (I didn't have any available)
420 2019-07-05T17:41:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15457 | Check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify by Sjors · Pull Request #15457 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
421 2019-07-05T17:41:42  <provoostenator> wumpus: I did, but apparently not after that last change (or I did, but somehow missed the issue anyway).
422 2019-07-05T17:44:48  <provoostenator> Meanwhile I have a bit more experience linking C(++) libraries in iOs, which means with a bit of luck I might be able to actually test running stuff, not just compiling.
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431 2019-07-05T18:05:23  <wumpus> provoostenator: awesome!
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442 2019-07-05T18:58:57  <meshcollider> There's a wallet meeting scheduled for today but considering the low turnout for the meeting yesterday, does anyone want to discuss anything?
443 2019-07-05T18:59:14  <wumpus> it's no longer freedom day at least
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445 2019-07-05T19:00:00  <sipa> i could give a bit of an update on miniscript if people are interested
446 2019-07-05T19:00:18  <achow101> wallet meeting?
447 2019-07-05T19:00:58  <meshcollider> #startmeeting
448 2019-07-05T19:00:58  <lightningbot> Meeting started Fri Jul  5 19:00:58 2019 UTC.  The chair is meshcollider. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
449 2019-07-05T19:00:58  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
450 2019-07-05T19:01:04  <meshcollider> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball
451 2019-07-05T19:01:09  <achow101> all I have to say is that #16341 does the wallet restructure and is very large
452 2019-07-05T19:01:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16341 | Introduce ScriptPubKeyMan interface and use it for key and script management (aka wallet boxes) by achow101 · Pull Request #16341 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
453 2019-07-05T19:01:11  <provoostenator> hi
454 2019-07-05T19:01:32  <provoostenator> achow101: the infamous box? I'll add to my review list.
455 2019-07-05T19:01:35  <meshcollider> #topic miniscript update (sipa)
456 2019-07-05T19:01:40  <schmidty> hola
457 2019-07-05T19:01:41  <sipa> hi!
458 2019-07-05T19:02:46  <sipa> so me and some colleagues of mine have been working on a way to make more complex bitcoin scripts more accessible, in a project called miniscript
459 2019-07-05T19:03:19  <sipa> this is about the bitcoin scirpt language as it exists today, without any softforks or other changes to consensus needed (but obviously prepared for those)
460 2019-07-05T19:05:03  <sipa> the idea is that we can define a subset of script which is composable (so things can be arbitrarily nested, say you can replace a public key anywhere with a "subexpression" which corresponds to an arbitrary policy), has properties like correctness and nonmalleability that can be easily reasoned about, and can be targetted by a compiler that converts policies into scripts
461 2019-07-05T19:05:32  <sipa> with this, we could make software/hardware wallets support basically arbitrary policies, without even any extensions to psbt
462 2019-07-05T19:06:07  <sipa> there's a website which is still actively being changed: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript
463 2019-07-05T19:06:30  <sipa> does this make sense?
464 2019-07-05T19:07:10  <achow101> sipa: is your website the only documentation of miniscript?
465 2019-07-05T19:07:30  <sipa> achow101: andrew and sanket are also working on a rust implementation, which is public i think
466 2019-07-05T19:07:44  <sipa> but as we're actively changing things yet i prefer to not really have any production code available
467 2019-07-05T19:09:13  <meshcollider> This seems very nice
468 2019-07-05T19:09:13  <sipa> so the different moving parts would be (a) signing logic in core/other software which is miniscript compatible, allowing signing/updating of any valid miniscript-compatible script (b) extension to descriptors that lets you include miniscript expressions, which are kinda engineer-readable but maybe a bit less than descriptors are now... (c) a compiler from policies with probabilities for all
469 2019-07-05T19:09:20  <sipa> branches/choices to miniscript descriptors
470 2019-07-05T19:09:48  <jb55> I see the aor was replaced with explicit probabilities, is that overkill or are there use cases in mind?
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472 2019-07-05T19:10:11  <sipa> jb55: it was basically impossible to write a 3-way or where each branch is equally likely
473 2019-07-05T19:10:32  <jb55> ah
474 2019-07-05T19:10:50  <sipa> oh we also came up with a neat algorithm that lets you compute the worst-case satisfaction cost for a miniscript, with annotations on various branches saying "this key is certainly available, this key will not be available at signing time, this key may be available at signing time"
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476 2019-07-05T19:10:59  <sipa> which is useful for fee estimation
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478 2019-07-05T19:11:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipsorcery closed pull request #15995: systemd service script: set usable permissions on /etc/bitcoin config dir (master...systemdconfig) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15995
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480 2019-07-05T19:11:30  <sipa> and the compiler is also good enough now that it can construct scripts that are strictly better than the bolt 3 htlc scripts... but obviously incompatible with them
481 2019-07-05T19:12:04  <sipa> it'd be nice to support all actual script people have come up with in the past, but it would require adding a whole bunch of ad-hoc extensions for weird tricks
482 2019-07-05T19:13:25  <achow101> cool! how close to being finalized do you think it is?
483 2019-07-05T19:13:32  <achow101> (aka when pr?)
484 2019-07-05T19:13:46  <sipa> i think we're very close to finalizing the design of the language... but we've been saying that for a few weeks now
485 2019-07-05T19:14:04  <sipa> it'll be some work to convert the hacky code to something PR'able
486 2019-07-05T19:14:08  <sipa> but i hope soon
487 2019-07-05T19:14:55  <sipa> so a motivation for this is for example being able to use a 2-of-3-timelocked-escrow-cool policy as a "participant" in a multisig, rather than being restricted to just keys in the multisig
488 2019-07-05T19:16:04  <sipa> more questions? otherwise end topic
489 2019-07-05T19:16:30  <achow101> the policy language is descriptors, right?
490 2019-07-05T19:16:50  <sipa> nope
491 2019-07-05T19:17:25  <sipa> the thing i envision becoming part of descriptors is a 1-to-1 mapping with script itself
492 2019-07-05T19:17:47  <sipa> so there is no "compilation" step between the descriptor and the script, as that compilation is pretty complex
493 2019-07-05T19:18:20  <achow101> is it policy -> descriptor -> script?
494 2019-07-05T19:18:22  <sipa> so the policy language is similar, but it has probabilities in it, and only has and/or/threshold/key/hash/time functions
495 2019-07-05T19:18:29  <sipa> policy -> descriptor <-> script
496 2019-07-05T19:18:51  <achow101> ah, ok
497 2019-07-05T19:18:56  <sipa> while the descriptor extensions have a ton of different ways of encoding an and/or, depending on context, probabilities, ...
498 2019-07-05T19:19:39  <sipa> i don't expect the policy language and the compiler to become part of core,
499 2019-07-05T19:20:26  <sipa> though maybe some analysis functionality may be (e.g. we can extract a policy without probabilities back from the script etc)
500 2019-07-05T19:20:43  <meshcollider> So what are you planning to PR then?
501 2019-07-05T19:21:08  <sipa> ability to sign/update/psbt arbitrary miniscript compatible scripts
502 2019-07-05T19:21:11  <sipa> and extensions to descriptors
503 2019-07-05T19:21:33  <achow101> basically replacing the solver and ProduceSignature?
504 2019-07-05T19:22:00  <achow101> so instead of pattern matching to figure out how to sign and finalize, interpret miniscript/descriptors
505 2019-07-05T19:22:05  <sipa> right
506 2019-07-05T19:22:17  <sipa> maybe all of the signing code can become delegated to a miniscript module
507 2019-07-05T19:22:45  <sipa> maybe the existing rawtransaction-compatible ones should just stay as legacy code, and only miniscript code gets invoked for more complex things
508 2019-07-05T19:23:20  <achow101> and with native descriptor wallets, people will be able to track whatever weird scripts they want and be able to sign for them
509 2019-07-05T19:23:47  <sipa> the conversion from script to miniscript structure is basically an LALR(1) parser (we have a handwritten one that's easier to read, but tools like bison/yacc can generate code to do this trivially)
510 2019-07-05T19:24:11  <sipa> yup
511 2019-07-05T19:24:28  <sipa> and with psbt, you can have even hardware wallets in theory participate in signing
512 2019-07-05T19:24:46  <sipa> though they may freak out with the unconventional scripts, and change detection becomes a lot harder
513 2019-07-05T19:25:03  <jb55> sipa: is the conversion from script to policy ever ambiguous?
514 2019-07-05T19:25:11  <jb55> if that makes sense
515 2019-07-05T19:25:41  <sipa> jb55: if you define an "abstract policy" which is a policy but without probabilities in it, you can always derive the abstract policy from a script
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517 2019-07-05T19:26:03  <meshcollider> Ah that LALR parser point answered my next question
518 2019-07-05T19:26:04  <sipa> in such a way that it's equivalent to the policy fed to the compiler
519 2019-07-05T19:26:43  <jb55> sipa: and that is guaranteed to be unique?
520 2019-07-05T19:26:43  <sipa> jb55: though if the compiler gets a lot smarter, this may not be possible anymore (e.g. complex reasoning over booleans/threshold gates to simplify the policy before compiler)
521 2019-07-05T19:27:15  <sipa> jb55: testing whether two different encodings of the same abstract policy are identical for arbitrary policies is an intractable problem
522 2019-07-05T19:27:56  <sipa> like and(a,thresh(2,a,b,c)) is identical to and(a,or(b,c))
523 2019-07-05T19:28:08  <sipa> things like that cannot be generally compared
524 2019-07-05T19:28:28  <sipa> but the compiler (so far) won't ever make such transitions
525 2019-07-05T19:29:13  <jb55> right
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527 2019-07-05T19:32:50  <meshcollider> Alright this seems very nice, thank you sipa, I need some time to read the website in more detail
528 2019-07-05T19:33:12  <meshcollider> Does anyone have any other topics to discuss today?
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531 2019-07-05T19:34:17  <achow101> please review wallet boxes and the 3 PRs it depends on
532 2019-07-05T19:34:47  <meshcollider> Yes ^ sorry I haven't reviewed much yet, it's been a crazy week
533 2019-07-05T19:36:36  <meshcollider> #action review wallet box PRs
534 2019-07-05T19:36:41  <meshcollider> #endmeeting
535 2019-07-05T19:36:41  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Fri Jul  5 19:36:41 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
536 2019-07-05T19:36:41  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-05-19.00.html
537 2019-07-05T19:36:41  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-05-19.00.txt
538 2019-07-05T19:36:41  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-05-19.00.log.html
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544 2019-07-05T20:00:50  <pinheadmz> I have a question about RBF implementation / BIP125 rules: Just seems like these two cases are redundant:
545 2019-07-05T20:01:02  <pinheadmz> bad-txns-spends-conflicting-tx
546 2019-07-05T20:01:03  <pinheadmz> replacement-adds-unconfirmed
547 2019-07-05T20:01:42  <pinheadmz> The first error is thrown if you spend an output that will be replaced
548 2019-07-05T20:01:55  <pinheadmz> but the second doesnt allow the replacement to spend any unconf outputs anyway - already
549 2019-07-05T20:03:42  <pinheadmz> so if the second case was jsut checked first, there'd be no need for the first case ...?
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558 2019-07-05T21:08:13  <luke-jr> pinheadmz: they're fundamentally different issues
559 2019-07-05T21:08:32  <luke-jr> pinheadmz: the second one is (hypothetically, in a PR, and in Knots) overrideable
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565 2019-07-05T21:29:27  <pinheadmz> luke-jr: thanks, I get it now. The first is definitely invalid, the second is more like a policy
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567 2019-07-05T21:31:00  <luke-jr> right
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