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 40 2019-08-08T02:37:28  <cfields> gitian builders: detached sigs for v0.18.1 are up.
 41 2019-08-08T02:37:36  <fanquake> 🎉
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 43 2019-08-08T02:39:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof opened pull request #16566: util: refactor upper/lowercase functions (master...2019-08-casefuns-refactor) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16566
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 47 2019-08-08T02:48:02  <fanquake> Pushed up some signed sigs: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/pull/1065
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 54 2019-08-08T03:00:17  <ariard> cfields: hey if you are around and have time, could you have a look on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16503 :) ? People are uncertain on it
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 79 2019-08-08T04:16:40  <fanquake> promag: I've put together a AppleScript that spams wallet loads and unloads in the GUI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16307#issuecomment-519355809
 80 2019-08-08T04:16:48  <fanquake> You might be able to use that to recreate the issue.
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111 2019-08-08T06:54:50  <jonasschnelli> promag: Re #16562: do you mean reallocation because of the vector::insert at the beginning? Yeah. I need to look for a better way.
112 2019-08-08T06:54:52  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16562 | Refactor message transport packaging by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #16562 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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114 2019-08-08T06:55:17  <jonasschnelli> heh
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126 2019-08-08T08:38:51  <setpill> what is the recommended way to cleanly shut down bitcoind running in the background?
127 2019-08-08T08:39:15  <setpill> seems like sending sigterm does an unclean shutdown
128 2019-08-08T08:40:15  <belcher> setpill this is a question more for #bitcoin than here, but try running `bitcoin-cli stop`
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130 2019-08-08T08:40:53  <setpill> belcher: it's related to the default systemd service file of bitcoin core not shutting it down cleanly when using `systemctl stop bitcoind.service`
131 2019-08-08T08:43:10  <setpill> hm it might also be a timeout issue
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134 2019-08-08T08:44:26  <setpill> ie. systemd going for the sigkill before the db has been flushed to disk
135 2019-08-08T08:55:58  <jonasschnelli> Unfortunate that our current ChaCha20Poly1305@Bitcoin implementation works on a single buffer.
136 2019-08-08T08:56:59  <jonasschnelli> Makes it harder to avoid vector::insert's / possible relocations
137 2019-08-08T08:58:30  <jonasschnelli> Ideally the AEAD would work on three buffers, 1| the "header" (3 byte packet length a.k.a. AD + command), 2| the message payload, 3| the 16byte MAC tag
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141 2019-08-08T09:07:18  <provoostenator> setpill: that would be useful to know; I imagine that can cause serious problems for low end devices, e.g. some raspebbery pi that needs to reboot after a system update
142 2019-08-08T09:08:46  <provoostenator> I use more or less the default systemd example one of my own machines and haven't had issues with unclean shutdowns that I know, but I never stress tested that.
143 2019-08-08T09:15:46  <setpill> provoostenator: it depends on how big your dbcache is and how much syncing you have done since the last time bitcoind was started
144 2019-08-08T09:16:36  <setpill> Related to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11600
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146 2019-08-08T09:17:50  <setpill> I just tried `bitcoin-cli stop` (rather than `systemctl stop bitcoind.service`) and it took almost 9 minutes.
147 2019-08-08T09:18:10  <setpill> But that's with a node that had synced non-stop from ~block 500000
148 2019-08-08T09:18:17  <setpill> And with a 15GB dbcache
149 2019-08-08T09:22:22  <setpill> I think setting `TimeoutStopSec=infinity` in the bitcoind.service file should fix it properly (though you'll want to be cognizant that shutdown of your device might take ages)
150 2019-08-08T09:22:39  <setpill> Will make a PR
151 2019-08-08T09:23:02  <provoostenator> That seems reasonable at first glance, but I'm no systemd expert. I assume reboot will run out of patience?
152 2019-08-08T09:23:35  <setpill> Not sure about that, good question.
153 2019-08-08T09:24:09  <provoostenator> Is it possible to "fail" the stop, instead waiting forever?
154 2019-08-08T09:24:27  <setpill> Well that's what it does now, I guess.
155 2019-08-08T09:24:31  <provoostenator> At least it makes sense to ask for the user to intervene if the node doesn't gracefully stop.
156 2019-08-08T09:24:34  <setpill> Simply sigkills.
157 2019-08-08T09:24:48  <setpill> It's possible to disable the sigkill at end of timeout.
158 2019-08-08T09:25:02  <setpill> But imho that's worse because it doesn't properly restart the service.
159 2019-08-08T09:25:16  <provoostenator> No that's not what I mean. I mean "systemctl stop bitcoind" could return an error without doing sigkill, basically "I can't stop this process"
160 2019-08-08T09:25:32  <setpill> Ie. `systemctl restart bitcoind.service` is a `stop` followed by a `start`
161 2019-08-08T09:25:48  <setpill> If the `stop` timeouts without successfully stopping the service, it will not perform the `start`
162 2019-08-08T09:26:39  <setpill> Which might be worse than the restart happening 10 minutes later than you'd expect, but still as soon as possible.
163 2019-08-08T09:27:03  <provoostenator> From the docs: "If a service of Type=notify sends "EXTEND_TIMEOUT_USEC=…", this may cause the stop time to be extended"
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165 2019-08-08T09:28:43  <wumpus> SIGTERM and SIGHUP do a clean shutdown
166 2019-08-08T09:28:59  <wumpus> @setpill
167 2019-08-08T09:30:08  <setpill> wumpus: thanks for the confirmation :)
168 2019-08-08T09:30:11  <wumpus> sorry, SIGTERM and SIGINT
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170 2019-08-08T09:31:11  <wumpus> SIGHUP reopens the debug.log https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/init.cpp#L903
171 2019-08-08T09:32:00  <setpill> provoostenator: that might *also* be an option yes. I will open an issue about this so these points can be recorded for later reference
172 2019-08-08T09:32:42  <provoostenator> If we wanted to switching from type "forking" to type "notify" that involves changes in the code to use sd_notify. Systemd docs seem to prefer that.
173 2019-08-08T09:32:45  <setpill> Just feels conceptually "wrong" to let the shutdown timeout when it's still hard at work and has not frozen at all.
174 2019-08-08T09:34:08  <setpill> Ah, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13736 related
175 2019-08-08T09:35:11  <provoostenator> setpill: that sounds like the right ticket to update
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207 2019-08-08T11:48:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] setpill opened pull request #16569: Disable systemd stop timeout (master...fix-systemd-shutdown) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16569
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212 2019-08-08T12:05:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] davereikher opened pull request #16570: Make descriptor tests deterministic (master...make_descriptor_tests_deterministic) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16570
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228 2019-08-08T14:00:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #16571: gui: Make Bitcoin Core logo pure black (master...1908-guiIcoPureBlack) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16571
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232 2019-08-08T14:03:38  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic Who wants to volunteer as co-maintainer of the Bitcoin Core flatpak?
233 2019-08-08T14:06:58  <luke-jr> I tried to make a flatpak but couldn't get it to work :/
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245 2019-08-08T14:58:09  <elichai2> I added the control block to the `SignatureData` struct, and I'm filling it in `ProduceSignature`(right now it's greedy and takes the first script that it can sign for) but for the signing support itself i'll wait for achow101's native descriptors PR :) until then i'll rebase my psbt stuff to use the new descriptor
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284 2019-08-08T17:00:55  <dongcarl> Wondering anyone had thoughts on a generic feature-signaling message for non-monotonic features that don't fit in the protocol version model
285 2019-08-08T17:01:16  *** luke-jr has quit IRC
286 2019-08-08T17:01:21  <dongcarl> Has there been prior art?
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289 2019-08-08T17:04:18  <sipa> BIP 36 perhaps
290 2019-08-08T17:04:20  <sipa> long ago
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292 2019-08-08T17:05:43  <dongcarl> Was there any reason why this wasn't adopted? Or just no one implemented?
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300 2019-08-08T17:17:18  <achow101> github has their own CI now https://github.com/features/actions?utm_campaign=1565242028&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1565242028
301 2019-08-08T17:17:23  <achow101> maybe it will be better than travis?
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309 2019-08-08T17:24:43  <dongcarl> #proposedmeetingtopic [maybe short] generic feature-signaling message for non-monotonic features that don't fit in the protocol version model (like BIP 36)
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312 2019-08-08T17:25:22  <sipa> FWIW, i think the "sendX" type negotiation works pretty well
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318 2019-08-08T17:33:51  <dongcarl> sipa: works pretty well = overhead + the extra message types not that big of a deal?
319 2019-08-08T17:33:56  *** luke-jr has quit IRC
320 2019-08-08T17:34:17  <sipa> they're sent exactly once
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323 2019-08-08T17:36:43  <dongcarl> true... okay perhaps this isn't that big of a problem.
324 2019-08-08T17:37:32  * dongcarl wishes there were a #cancelproposedmeetingtopic
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346 2019-08-08T18:51:52  <MarcoFalke> [13:17] <achow101> github has their own CI now https://github.com/features/actions?utm_campaign=1565242028&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1565242028
347 2019-08-08T18:51:55  <MarcoFalke> Thanks
348 2019-08-08T18:52:00  <MarcoFalke> :eyes:
349 2019-08-08T18:54:18  <sipa> i'd be concerned about centralizing more of our workflow around github, if we'd move from travis to the built-in CI...
350 2019-08-08T18:54:58  <MarcoFalke> travis only works with GitHub, so I fail to see how it would make anything worse
351 2019-08-08T18:55:37  <jonasschnelli> I'm also concerned to add more crucial stuff around github
352 2019-08-08T18:55:56  <MarcoFalke> If it is the same thing with the only difference that we don't have to manually re-run every build, I'd consider it a huge win
353 2019-08-08T18:56:16  <jonasschnelli> Well,.. don't forget the https://bitcoinbuilds.org/ option. :)
354 2019-08-08T18:56:59  <jonasschnelli> But I agree that travis, with github only is not much of a difference
355 2019-08-08T18:57:02  <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: It needs some sort of integration with GitHub
356 2019-08-08T18:57:13  <jonasschnelli> BTW: semaphore2 has now public PR build support
357 2019-08-08T18:57:31  <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: I can integrate it with GitHub's "checks" API.
358 2019-08-08T18:57:43  <jonasschnelli> Done in 1-2 days...
359 2019-08-08T18:57:59  <jonasschnelli> But I first want to prove that my CI can run for 2-3 month without issues
360 2019-08-08T18:58:07  <sipa> i think a self-hosted CI is over time going to be a better solution anyway
361 2019-08-08T18:58:09  <jonasschnelli> Then a next integration step could be done
362 2019-08-08T18:58:20  *** real_or_random has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
363 2019-08-08T18:58:20  <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: Also, it needs to be open to the public (forked repos)
364 2019-08-08T18:58:30  <MarcoFalke> And offer free minutes for open source
365 2019-08-08T18:58:40  <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: it won't
366 2019-08-08T18:58:57  <jonasschnelli> The CI will only build PRs and master branch (eventually older branches as well at some point)
367 2019-08-08T18:59:00  <achow101> MarcoFalke: so long as a config file that can be used elsewhere is present, I don't see a problem with also using bitcoinbuilds.org
368 2019-08-08T18:59:34  <achow101> Why not just have both?
369 2019-08-08T18:59:36  <MarcoFalke> How would I run all the ci settings when my workstation is a laptop? Create a pull request against core?
370 2019-08-08T19:00:13  <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: the bitcoinbuilds.org CI is our last check. How developers check their work is their thing
371 2019-08-08T19:00:21  <jonasschnelli> (prior to PR)
372 2019-08-08T19:00:50  <achow101> jonasschnelli: it's nice to be able to run the CI checks on your own branch before a PR
373 2019-08-08T19:00:56  <sipa> meeting?
374 2019-08-08T19:00:57  <MarcoFalke> It takes a long time to compile and run the tests with all possible sanitizer options and configure options
375 2019-08-08T19:01:03  <wumpus> #startmeeting
376 2019-08-08T19:01:03  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Aug  8 19:01:03 2019 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
377 2019-08-08T19:01:03  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
378 2019-08-08T19:01:07  <moneyball> hi
379 2019-08-08T19:01:08  <kanzure> hi
380 2019-08-08T19:01:09  <jnewbery> hi
381 2019-08-08T19:01:10  <jonasschnelli> hi
382 2019-08-08T19:01:10  <MarcoFalke> hi
383 2019-08-08T19:01:13  <achow101> hi
384 2019-08-08T19:01:13  <ariard> hi
385 2019-08-08T19:01:15  <sipa> hi
386 2019-08-08T19:01:16  <phantomcircuit> hi
387 2019-08-08T19:01:33  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral
388 2019-08-08T19:01:40  <wumpus> hi
389 2019-08-08T19:01:42  <fanquake> Hi
390 2019-08-08T19:01:46  <real_or_random> hi
391 2019-08-08T19:01:58  <meshcollider> hi
392 2019-08-08T19:02:04  <MarcoFalke> I'd rather stick with some GitHub specific stuff that works than to ditch GitHub specific stuff and make running the tests harder for developers
393 2019-08-08T19:02:13  <wumpus> any last-minute proposed topics?
394 2019-08-08T19:02:22  <aj> hey
395 2019-08-08T19:02:25  <moneyball> https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
396 2019-08-08T19:02:26  <wumpus> there's one by MarcoFalke: Who wants to volunteer as co-maintainer of the Bitcoin Core flatpak
397 2019-08-08T19:02:29  <dongcarl> wumpus: could you remove my proposed?
398 2019-08-08T19:02:47  <wumpus> dongcarl: moneyball already did
399 2019-08-08T19:02:50  <MarcoFalke> We can always keep the bitcoin-builds as a backup fallback ci
400 2019-08-08T19:02:53  <phantomcircuit> MarcoFalke, it really depends on how powerful their build servers are, for a relatively small price a very powerful server could be acquired and used for builds
401 2019-08-08T19:03:02  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic GitHub ci
402 2019-08-08T19:03:42  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
403 2019-08-08T19:03:44  <MarcoFalke> phantomcircuit: Not every developer has a credit card, even if they can afford the price of the ci
404 2019-08-08T19:03:46  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
405 2019-08-08T19:03:56  <achow101> I don't see why we can't just use both. would it not be possible to make bitcoinbuilds just read the same config file as github's?
406 2019-08-08T19:04:02  <wumpus> 6 blockers, 6 chasing concept ACKs
407 2019-08-08T19:04:08  <wumpus> why are we talking about credit cards ?
408 2019-08-08T19:04:08  <MarcoFalke> Agree with achow101
409 2019-08-08T19:04:08  <jonasschnelli> (lets take the CI discussion to #bitcoin-builds plz)
410 2019-08-08T19:04:21  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Sorry, will shut up now about ci
411 2019-08-08T19:04:48  <wumpus> I think the BIP9 bury PR is very near merge-ready
412 2019-08-08T19:04:52  <wumpus> #16060
413 2019-08-08T19:04:56  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16060 | Bury bip9 deployments by jnewbery · Pull Request #16060 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
414 2019-08-08T19:05:18  <wumpus> anything to add/remove/replace from the project?
415 2019-08-08T19:05:22  <MarcoFalke> It is still in the process of review and some fixups keep getting found
416 2019-08-08T19:05:40  <MarcoFalke> (re 16060)
417 2019-08-08T19:05:50  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: mostly small nits on nits about RPC behavior, from what I've seen
418 2019-08-08T19:05:55  <aj> #8994 can be removed from chasing concept ack?
419 2019-08-08T19:05:58  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8994 | Testchains: Introduce custom chain whose constructor... by jtimon · Pull Request #8994 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
420 2019-08-08T19:06:10  <phantomcircuit> MarcoFalke, no what im saying is that we could collectively buy a server that could do the builds, in general things where you're buying "packaged" cpu time from third parties end up being very expensive
421 2019-08-08T19:06:17  <jnewbery> wumpus: there was at least a bug in the test case which I'm fixing now
422 2019-08-08T19:06:25  <jnewbery> I would appreciate rereview after I push that fix
423 2019-08-08T19:06:47  <wumpus> jnewbery: sure
424 2019-08-08T19:07:02  <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: Will take another look in the next couple of days
425 2019-08-08T19:07:35  <MarcoFalke> Also, I plan to review sdaftuar's pr (it has been on my list for a while, but I haven't gotten to it yet)
426 2019-08-08T19:08:05  <wumpus> thanks
427 2019-08-08T19:08:40  <fanquake> wumpus: first topic?
428 2019-08-08T19:08:53  <wumpus> we're done with high priority for review?
429 2019-08-08T19:09:10  * jonasschnelli waves at #16202 (quick review, on the path to p2p encryption)
430 2019-08-08T19:09:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16202 | Refactor network message deserialization by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #16202 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
431 2019-08-08T19:10:02  <wumpus> #topic Who wants to volunteer as co-maintainer of the Bitcoin Core flatpak (MarcoFalke)
432 2019-08-08T19:10:14  <achow101> who currently maintains it?
433 2019-08-08T19:10:21  <jonasschnelli> can someone explain flatpak?
434 2019-08-08T19:10:26  <MarcoFalke> It isn't created yet
435 2019-08-08T19:10:36  <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: It is like a snap package
436 2019-08-08T19:10:42  <wumpus> it's a distribution agnostic binary package distribution format
437 2019-08-08T19:10:44  <MarcoFalke> Different name, though
438 2019-08-08T19:10:44  <wumpus> for linux
439 2019-08-08T19:11:45  <jonasschnelli> Okay. Sounds acceptable.
440 2019-08-08T19:11:47  <wumpus> it's especially good for GUI applications, it has some features like sandboxing and desktop UI integration which simply dropping static binaries has not
441 2019-08-08T19:12:21  <MarcoFalke> I will be a repository hosted under the flatpak org, so not in our org. Which is why I am asking for co-maintainers.
442 2019-08-08T19:12:24  <wumpus> see #16550
443 2019-08-08T19:12:25  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16550 | Distribute via flatpak · Issue #16550 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
444 2019-08-08T19:12:54  <wumpus> i'd love to help but can't promise to have any time and motivation for any extra work at the moment, sorry
445 2019-08-08T19:13:06  <MarcoFalke> Sure. Maybe jonasschnelli?
446 2019-08-08T19:13:10  <MarcoFalke> Or fanquake?
447 2019-08-08T19:13:20  <sipa> it seems flatpak is also usable independent of a central repo
448 2019-08-08T19:13:34  <sipa> while snap really needs canonical's infrastructure?
449 2019-08-08T19:13:48  <MarcoFalke> jup, snap needs the Ubuntu infrastructure
450 2019-08-08T19:13:55  <fanquake> MarcoFalke: what’s required to maintain? Just uploading releases and managing issues?
451 2019-08-08T19:14:04  <sipa> flatpak has flathub, but it's not required
452 2019-08-08T19:14:17  <MarcoFalke> fanquake: Only requirement is that you are a less agressive jaywalker
453 2019-08-08T19:14:23  <sipa> (just reading and learning)
454 2019-08-08T19:14:28  <fanquake> 👀
455 2019-08-08T19:14:40  <jonasschnelli> Sorry... already at my timelimit
456 2019-08-08T19:14:42  <sipa> MarcoFalke: one must know how to spell aggressive correctly, however
457 2019-08-08T19:15:09  <MarcoFalke> right
458 2019-08-08T19:15:14  <fanquake> Can’t promise anything 🏃‍♂️
459 2019-08-08T19:15:19  <MarcoFalke> Is there an autocorrect for IRC?
460 2019-08-08T19:16:15  <MarcoFalke> fanquake: Cool, I'll sign you up.
461 2019-08-08T19:16:28  <wumpus> hehe,switch to matrix, it has message editing
462 2019-08-08T19:17:02  <fanquake> MarcoFalke: heh, I was worried that just by asking a question that would happen
463 2019-08-08T19:17:44  <fanquake> wumpus: Next topic then?
464 2019-08-08T19:18:05  <wumpus> #topic GitHub ci (MarcoFalke)
465 2019-08-08T19:18:22  <MarcoFalke> fanquake: I expect it will look like this: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/packaging/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3AMarcoFalke+is%3Aclosed
466 2019-08-08T19:18:31  <MarcoFalke> I.e. bump version every 3 months
467 2019-08-08T19:18:39  <MarcoFalke> So nothing too fancy
468 2019-08-08T19:18:51  <MarcoFalke> ok, next topic
469 2019-08-08T19:18:53  <fanquake> MarcoFalke: ok 👍
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471 2019-08-08T19:19:26  <MarcoFalke> I think everyone knows by now that travis isn't the most stable ci solution
472 2019-08-08T19:19:33  <wumpus> PSA: first deadline (soft translation string freeze) for 0.19.0 is in less than a month, 2019-09-01
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474 2019-08-08T19:20:14  <MarcoFalke> So in exploring alternatives, the GitHub ci might be a good medium-term replacement
475 2019-08-08T19:20:14  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: definitely, it's not a good fit for how we're using it at least
476 2019-08-08T19:20:41  <moneyball> MarcoFalke: is the GitHub CI public info?
477 2019-08-08T19:20:47  <MarcoFalke> Both, travis and the GitHub ci, will be GitHub-centered. That should be fine, imo.
478 2019-08-08T19:20:49  <achow101> https://github.com/features/actions
479 2019-08-08T19:20:53  <moneyball> ah, i see it is
480 2019-08-08T19:20:56  <achow101> they just announced it today, it's in beta
481 2019-08-08T19:20:57  <wumpus> I've never heard of github ci
482 2019-08-08T19:20:57  <MarcoFalke> moneyball: Yes, according to achow101
483 2019-08-08T19:21:12  <moneyball> when Pieter, Cory, Matt, and I visited GitHub, they demo'd this
484 2019-08-08T19:21:23  <wumpus> but if it can take over what travis does and does it beter, without too much work from our side, that'd be very useful
485 2019-08-08T19:21:48  <moneyball> cfields has strong views on this
486 2019-08-08T19:21:50  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Jup, agree
487 2019-08-08T19:22:06  <achow101> moneyball: any opinions about it from the demo you saw?
488 2019-08-08T19:22:07  <MarcoFalke> moneyball: cfields: Elaborate, pls
489 2019-08-08T19:22:08  <wumpus> cfields can't be here today afaik
490 2019-08-08T19:22:19  <jnewbery> moneyball: can you summarise the strong feelings?
491 2019-08-08T19:22:23  <fanquake> Also agree.
492 2019-08-08T19:22:39  <achow101> strong feelings in a good or bad way?
493 2019-08-08T19:22:50  <sipa> bad.
494 2019-08-08T19:22:59  <moneyball> Concerns about increasing dependence on GitHub/Microsoft
495 2019-08-08T19:23:06  <jonasschnelli> Yes
496 2019-08-08T19:23:47  <MarcoFalke> Again, I don't think it gets worse. Also, we can use jonasschnelli's ci as a fallback (running in the background 24/7)
497 2019-08-08T19:23:51  <fanquake> jonasschnelli: do you want to update on the state of your CI? As an alternative?
498 2019-08-08T19:23:56  <moneyball> Which I agree is a valid point. My response was "What kind of productivity improvement over Travis would we need to see to want to move in that direction?" but I didn't really get a good answer. So, I'd pose that question here.
499 2019-08-08T19:23:56  <jonasschnelli> Update on the self hosted custom open source CI (bitcoinbuilds.org): it does now (since a week) successfully builds all PRs, mostly quicker than travis (though less envs). Integration with Github is doable and easy. But first lets see how it runs for at least 2 months.
500 2019-08-08T19:24:21  <jonasschnelli> Plan is to use the Github checks API when we think it has been proven to be reliable (2 month)
501 2019-08-08T19:24:29  <wumpus> moneyball: "no false positives"
502 2019-08-08T19:24:34  <moneyball> Another point made was concern that GitHub 3rd party API might suffer / degrade over time making 3rd party tools like Travis even worse (relative to GitHub CI)
503 2019-08-08T19:24:42  <wumpus> (or at least, neglible amount of, the problem with travis is false positives)
504 2019-08-08T19:24:53  <sipa> one point is that it seems to provide far more entry points than a normal CI does (it does much more automation of workflows, not just CI), and starting to depend on those seems like it would make it harder to move away (if ever needed)
505 2019-08-08T19:25:10  <jonasschnelli> good point
506 2019-08-08T19:25:17  <MarcoFalke> Yeah, good point.
507 2019-08-08T19:25:26  <wumpus> I wouldn't want to rely on it for automation of workflows
508 2019-08-08T19:25:33  <fanquake> Heh. We’ve already got plenty of GH “turned off” as well.
509 2019-08-08T19:25:40  <moneyball> I'm not sure if their announcement today means anyway can experiment with it not, but if not, then we have an invitation to experiment with it, if anyone is interested.
510 2019-08-08T19:25:40  <wumpus> just taking over what travis does now
511 2019-08-08T19:25:41  <jonasschnelli> They tend to mix auto-fix (code format correction and stuff) with CI which is indeed not only good
512 2019-08-08T19:25:46  <sipa> as long as it's a drop-in replacement of one CI for another, i agree there isn't much impact
513 2019-08-08T19:25:47  <MarcoFalke> We should only use it for the purpose of ci builds
514 2019-08-08T19:25:54  <wumpus> auto-fix ? no way
515 2019-08-08T19:26:08  <MarcoFalke> " You’re in the queue for the beta—we’ll let you know as soon as you have access. "
516 2019-08-08T19:26:12  <wumpus> that sounds realllllly scary
517 2019-08-08T19:26:14  <wumpus> damn
518 2019-08-08T19:26:37  <sipa> that's just an example of something you can configure
519 2019-08-08T19:26:43  <sipa> not a default thing
520 2019-08-08T19:26:47  <MarcoFalke> yes, all of the other stuff is just scary
521 2019-08-08T19:26:49  <wumpus> so now you CI doesn't only have false positives, it can introduce bugs and backdoors into your code !
522 2019-08-08T19:26:51  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: https://developer.github.com/apps/quickstart-guides/creating-ci-tests-with-the-checks-api/#step-26-automatically-fixing-rubocop-errors
523 2019-08-08T19:27:34  <MarcoFalke> Like self-driving cars for software development
524 2019-08-08T19:27:41  <wumpus> yea, lt's disable it, as fanquake says we have plenty of gh features disabled, what is one more … though it's something to watch
525 2019-08-08T19:27:43  <wumpus> yes, exactly
526 2019-08-08T19:28:17  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: we've "tested" other CIs live - no reason not to do it with our own
527 2019-08-08T19:29:03  <fanquake> So is the resolution here to just wait until we can look at GH CI properly? Maybe test it in production alongside Travis?
528 2019-08-08T19:29:15  <wumpus> that sounds good to me
529 2019-08-08T19:29:22  <jonasschnelli> ack
530 2019-08-08T19:29:24  <achow101> ack
531 2019-08-08T19:29:25  <luke-jr> Does GH CI work with non-GH repos?
532 2019-08-08T19:29:30  <MarcoFalke> no
533 2019-08-08T19:29:38  <achow101> luke-jr: i highly doubt it
534 2019-08-08T19:29:38  <wumpus> luke-jr: only if you mirror them to github, I guess
535 2019-08-08T19:29:39  <sipa> luke-jr: embrace, extend, ...
536 2019-08-08T19:29:43  <luke-jr> I'm with cfields on that then…
537 2019-08-08T19:29:56  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Does travis work with non-GH repos?
538 2019-08-08T19:30:08  <luke-jr> I mean, if it's the only thing working, fine temporarily I guess, but I'd rather get away from GH dependency, not more entrenched
539 2019-08-08T19:30:17  <wumpus> luke-jr: definitely agree on that
540 2019-08-08T19:30:18  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: not sure
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542 2019-08-08T19:30:31  <achow101> I really thing we should just do both GH CI and bitcoinbuilds and just have them use the same config file
543 2019-08-08T19:30:41  <jonasschnelli> It looks like GitHub is taking over Git the same way gmail took over email... be aware
544 2019-08-08T19:30:42  <moneyball> does anyone want to test the GitHub CI now? let me know and I will introduce
545 2019-08-08T19:30:44  <luke-jr> achow101: +1
546 2019-08-08T19:30:52  <luke-jr> I wonder how long until there's some kind of standard for CIs
547 2019-08-08T19:30:56  <jonasschnelli> Nice centralized development functionality comes at a price
548 2019-08-08T19:31:01  <achow101> so we aren't entirely dependent on Github, but for individual developers, they can still run CI checks
549 2019-08-08T19:31:08  <sipa> achow101: i like that idea; it also forces us to keep the configuration to be compatible with non-GH features
550 2019-08-08T19:31:13  <wumpus> luke-jr: seems no, travis cannot use anything else than github, unless you have the enterprise version
551 2019-08-08T19:31:17  <luke-jr> moneyball: does it require permission to use?
552 2019-08-08T19:31:20  <aj> jonasschnelli: could test in production, but have it report "success" or "neutral" rather than "success" or "failure" maybe?
553 2019-08-08T19:31:25  <sipa> luke-jr: during the beta, yes
554 2019-08-08T19:31:37  <luke-jr> achow101: "make cichecks" would be nice :D
555 2019-08-08T19:31:56  <achow101> luke-jr: can't run on all of the platforms on one machine
556 2019-08-08T19:32:06  <luke-jr> achow101: why not? :\
557 2019-08-08T19:32:11  <dongcarl> qemu
558 2019-08-08T19:32:17  <jonasschnelli> aj: Yes. That would make sense.
559 2019-08-08T19:33:16  <dongcarl> so, perhaps _someone_ should try out the GitHub CI, and see if it's better than Travis, as a stop gap
560 2019-08-08T19:33:20  <wumpus> dongcarl: from my testing a few years ago, qemu-user works pretty well for the tests, at least if you stick to platforms with the same endianness
561 2019-08-08T19:33:41  <luke-jr> it sounds like bitcoinbuilds is further along than GitHub CI?
562 2019-08-08T19:33:53  <MarcoFalke> Could someone share a writeup of how to run the functional tests in qemu, pls?
563 2019-08-08T19:34:15  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: write a shell script that runs the bitcoind bin, and export BITCOIND=/path/to/script
564 2019-08-08T19:34:26  <achow101> moneyball: you said we have an invitation to experiment with github CI?
565 2019-08-08T19:34:51  <moneyball> Yes
566 2019-08-08T19:34:52  <achow101> can we skip the queue?
567 2019-08-08T19:35:06  <moneyball> Presumably since they offered to let us use it a month ago
568 2019-08-08T19:35:30  <dongcarl> Is there a zero-effort Travis yml -> GH CI transition?
569 2019-08-08T19:35:37  <sipa> i doubt that
570 2019-08-08T19:35:40  <MarcoFalke> dongcarl: no
571 2019-08-08T19:35:44  <dongcarl> :-/
572 2019-08-08T19:36:03  <dongcarl> Why not stick to Travis till bitcoinbuilds is ready?
573 2019-08-08T19:36:16  <MarcoFalke> But the travis.yml mostly specifies the env, so it shouldn't be too hard either
574 2019-08-08T19:36:41  <achow101> dongcarl: because travis false positives too much
575 2019-08-08T19:36:41  <luke-jr> yeah, I imagine at least some of the scripts should be portable
576 2019-08-08T19:36:51  <MarcoFalke> I'd still like to run a ci with free minutes along of bitcoinbuilds
577 2019-08-08T19:37:00  <jonasschnelli> Me 2
578 2019-08-08T19:37:16  <luke-jr> "free minutes along of bitcoinbuilds"?
579 2019-08-08T19:37:20  <achow101> moneyball: can you ask them let some of us into the beta so we can try it out on our own repos first?
580 2019-08-08T19:37:22  <MarcoFalke> fee cpu time
581 2019-08-08T19:37:24  <jonasschnelli> I think centralized development tools are fine as long as there is an alternative running in parallel
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583 2019-08-08T19:37:31  <MarcoFalke> *free
584 2019-08-08T19:37:33  <luke-jr> ah
585 2019-08-08T19:37:41  <luke-jr> I have lots of free ppc64le CPU time I think
586 2019-08-08T19:37:49  <jonasschnelli> The problem is lock-in, suddenly they charge for it or make it incompatible with your needs, ...and you'r screwed
587 2019-08-08T19:37:50  <dongcarl> jonasschnelli: Agreed.
588 2019-08-08T19:37:58  <moneyball> achow101: yes would you like access?
589 2019-08-08T19:38:10  <achow101> sure
590 2019-08-08T19:38:10  <phantomcircuit> achow101, travis is mostly hitting fp on resource exhaustion issues
591 2019-08-08T19:38:12  <luke-jr> moneyball: they can't just enable the entire repo +forks? :/
592 2019-08-08T19:38:25  <moneyball> i don't know
593 2019-08-08T19:38:28  <sipa> yeah, let's ask them how this works
594 2019-08-08T19:38:36  <moneyball> i will clarify with them
595 2019-08-08T19:38:47  <achow101> just enable it for anyone in the bitcoin and bitcoin-core orgs :)
596 2019-08-08T19:38:53  <MarcoFalke> Let's not enable the repo for now and keep testing in forks only
597 2019-08-08T19:38:58  <jonasschnelli> I'd also hope we consider some ethos and not further extend our reliance on github
598 2019-08-08T19:40:16  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I agree, it's just, if we don't rely on anything further then switching from travis to github for CI doesn't make a difference, they're both centralized and githyb only
599 2019-08-08T19:40:40  <fanquake> wumpus: any other topics?
600 2019-08-08T19:40:49  <wumpus> nope
601 2019-08-08T19:41:02  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: There is maybe no technical difference,... but the signal to the community/world is different
602 2019-08-08T19:41:41  <MarcoFalke> Ok, that is a point I buy. They might say the GitHub ci is "approved by Bitcoin Core"
603 2019-08-08T19:41:52  <wumpus> Could someone share a writeup of how to run the functional tests in qemu <- I'll try if I get around to it, I think the most difficult part is setting up the faux-root filesystem for the target, though on some distros you can install that as package
604 2019-08-08T19:42:03  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, that's scary
605 2019-08-08T19:42:21  <jonasschnelli> "Bitcoin Core implemente GitHub CI after talks with their CEO,... a week after they acted in massive censorship"
606 2019-08-08T19:42:40  <jonasschnelli> (I know I overstretch it)
607 2019-08-08T19:43:11  <fanquake> Then we’d all have to jump on Medium and explain our actions in an emoji filled post mortem.
608 2019-08-08T19:43:58  <luke-jr> might be a harder story to spin if we have our own CI at the same time
609 2019-08-08T19:44:11  <achow101> we could deploy both github CI and bitcoinbuilds simultaneously?
610 2019-08-08T19:44:11  <wumpus> haha way to go, fly ahead of the rumors in the meeting 😅
611 2019-08-08T19:44:24  <luke-jr> "We're migrating to our own CI, but helping GitHub test theirs too"
612 2019-08-08T19:44:27  <MarcoFalke> I'll experiment with the ci a bit in the coming days to see if it fits our use case. We can discuss more after everyone had a look
613 2019-08-08T19:44:41  <jonasschnelli> thanks MarcoFalke
614 2019-08-08T19:44:46  <achow101> +1
615 2019-08-08T19:45:25  <wumpus> yes, let's try that, maybe it's worse a match for our CI needs than travis is, then it's not even worth discussing further
616 2019-08-08T19:45:46  <wumpus> #endmeeting
617 2019-08-08T19:45:46  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Aug  8 19:45:46 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
618 2019-08-08T19:45:46  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-08-08-19.01.html
619 2019-08-08T19:45:46  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-08-08-19.01.txt
620 2019-08-08T19:45:46  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-08-08-19.01.log.html
621 2019-08-08T19:47:50  * fanquake back to sleep
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624 2019-08-08T19:57:22  <jamesob> sorry I missed the meeting - can I get #16443 thrown on the high prio list?
625 2019-08-08T19:57:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16443 | refactor: have CCoins* data managed under CChainState by jamesob · Pull Request #16443 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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627 2019-08-08T19:57:49  <wumpus> jamesob: sure
628 2019-08-08T19:57:56  <jamesob> thanks wumpus
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630 2019-08-08T19:58:55  <wumpus> HUH did anyone know you can add notes to the project pages?
631 2019-08-08T19:59:16  <wumpus> this could be useful to add some information, like who proposed a blocker
632 2019-08-08T19:59:37  <wumpus> (if it's not the author)
633 2019-08-08T19:59:45  <jamesob> ah that's kind of cool - are the notes themselves separate from the PRs?
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635 2019-08-08T20:00:55  <wumpus> yes they're simply cards like the PRs and issues but aren't actually PRs and issues
636 2019-08-08T20:01:25  <MarcoFalke> I forgot to raise the topic, but what happened to 0.18.1? can we ship tomorrow?
637 2019-08-08T20:01:31  <wumpus> so can be used as sub-headers and such
638 2019-08-08T20:02:08  <aj> oh, if you put the issue number in a note it includes the issue summary info too
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640 2019-08-08T20:02:43  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: the signatures are uploaded now, I'll upload the binaries shortly
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642 2019-08-08T20:03:39  <aj> ... if you have exactly one issue number, anyway
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693 2019-08-08T23:37:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyRubin opened pull request #16572: Fix Char as Bool in Wallet (master...fix-wallet-charbool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16572
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