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 25 2019-11-07T01:16:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jkczyz opened pull request #17399: validation: Templatize ValidationState instead of subclassing (master...2019-11-validation-state) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17399
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 28 2019-11-07T01:42:52  <sipa> https://ci.appveyor.com/project/DrahtBot/bitcoin/builds/28674639
 29 2019-11-07T01:43:09  <sipa> bech32_tests.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "bool __cdecl CaseInsensitiveEqual(class std::basic_string<char,struct std::char_traits<char>,class std::allocator<char> > const &,class std::basic_string<char,struct std::char_traits<char>,class std::allocator<char> > const &)"
 30 2019-11-07T01:43:15  <sipa> is this a known issue?
 31 2019-11-07T01:54:44  <lightlike> sipa: yes, see #17384 - all appveyor builds are currently failing (except the one in 17384 :-) )
 32 2019-11-07T01:54:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17384 | test: Create new test library by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #17384 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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135 2019-11-07T10:19:51  <promag> jonatack: hi, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17283/files#diff-df7d84ff2f53fcb2a0dc15a3a51e55ceR949
136 2019-11-07T10:20:02  <promag> Why "an"?
137 2019-11-07T10:22:05  <real_or_random> promag: "nrequired" starts with a vowel sound
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139 2019-11-07T10:22:58  <real_or_random> try to pronounce it
140 2019-11-07T10:31:21  <promag> real_or_random: oh thats a rule? ok then 🤷
141 2019-11-07T10:31:47  <promag> ty
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143 2019-11-07T10:54:03  <jonatack> promag: yes, what real_or_random said. See discussion at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16047#discussion_r285628201
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145 2019-11-07T10:55:10  <jonatack> er, that link is the inverse case :)
146 2019-11-07T10:56:38  <wumpus> I tend to get that wrong too, it's a very difficult rule for non native speakers of English
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150 2019-11-07T11:25:38  <jonatack> I agree it can look strange to read
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152 2019-11-07T11:43:48  <wumpus> for 30 years of so I was blissfully unaware and based a/an on the simple letter-based heuristic, it worked enough for people to never complain
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162 2019-11-07T12:22:53  <elichai2> Still have some problems but look at build no. 3 :) https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/builds/608703220
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166 2019-11-07T12:28:24  <wumpus> elichai2: you've added a native ppc build? nice
167 2019-11-07T12:29:07  <elichai2> yep. it's kinda undocumented, so we might need to allow it to fail (altough it works on my repos), still have some problems with the docker. but it's pretty cool
168 2019-11-07T12:29:43  <wumpus> so they have actual POWER servers running builds? sounds expensive :)
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170 2019-11-07T12:31:23  <elichai2> wumpus: either that or a bunch of emulation stuff
171 2019-11-07T12:31:50  <wumpus> for ARM it's not hard to believe it's real native
172 2019-11-07T12:51:21  <luke-jr> POWER isn't that expensive either, especially for business..
173 2019-11-07T12:51:57  <luke-jr> I built my Talos II for $3k and there's the cheaper Blackbird now
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177 2019-11-07T12:54:33  <luke-jr> wumpus: Technically you could always use "an" and just defer to the Tonal number system (where "an" is 1)
178 2019-11-07T12:54:47  <elichai2> if any docker wizard has any inputs on what's going on here it'll be appretiated :) (added `set -x` and some docker ls's here and there) https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608713371#L435
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180 2019-11-07T12:59:40  <wumpus> sure, but it's more expensive than x86; ARM is really really cheap so adding that was kind of low-hanging fruit
181 2019-11-07T12:59:43  <wumpus> heh yes
182 2019-11-07T12:59:56  <wumpus> I don't know anything about docker, sorry
183 2019-11-07T13:02:27  <luke-jr> wumpus: I'm sure Travis has way many more x86 than POWER though ;)
184 2019-11-07T13:03:21  <luke-jr> (and POWER probably finishes the jobs faster to make up for it!)
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186 2019-11-07T13:03:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e65b4160e99f...46fc4d1a24c8
187 2019-11-07T13:03:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faec282 MarcoFalke: scripted-diff: test: Move setup_common to test library
188 2019-11-07T13:03:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa4c6fa MarcoFalke: doc: Add documentation for new test/lib
189 2019-11-07T13:03:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46fc4d1 MarcoFalke: Merge #17384: test: Create new test library
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193 2019-11-07T13:04:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17384: test: Create new test library (master...1911-testLib) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17384
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197 2019-11-07T13:13:28  <wumpus> I don't get it, ci/lint/06_script.sh runs subtree checks for various trees, but doesn't import their master branches, how is this supposed to work?
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199 2019-11-07T13:14:10  <wumpus> I added a new subtree in #17398 and locally the subtree checks pass, but not on travis, because it doesn't have the commit available
200 2019-11-07T13:14:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17398 | WIP: build: Update leveldb to 1.22+ by laanwj · Pull Request #17398 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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202 2019-11-07T13:17:44  <wumpus> ok added an explicit "git fetch https://github.com/google/crc32c.git master" for now, let's see...
203 2019-11-07T13:18:41  <wumpus> #proposedmeetingtopic Move subtrees out of src/
204 2019-11-07T13:19:24  <wumpus> or at least under a single roo
205 2019-11-07T13:20:08  <wumpus> would be a lot easier for linters and doxugen and maintenance scripts and such if there was a single path to ignore
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207 2019-11-07T13:25:25  <wumpus> e.g. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17398/commits/b9b829574c517fcbc0fbcbda67ed667b04a73899  the other option would be to have an unified exclude path, but having to specify it 10+ times is absurd
208 2019-11-07T13:26:05  <wumpus> YESS they pass
209 2019-11-07T13:31:36  <fanquake> guess we can wait for a bunch of rebases now that #17384 went in
210 2019-11-07T13:31:39  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17384 | test: Create new test library by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #17384 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
211 2019-11-07T13:32:02  <fanquake> Had been ready to merge 17342
212 2019-11-07T13:32:24  <wumpus> same
213 2019-11-07T13:36:14  <wumpus> ooh the native osx travis build has beer keg emojis, yes it's the first time I look at that
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215 2019-11-07T13:36:26  <fanquake> is that in the brew output?
216 2019-11-07T13:36:36  <fanquake> We can turn that off if required heh
217 2019-11-07T13:36:44  <wumpus> no, let's leave it
218 2019-11-07T13:37:03  <fanquake> We can also customize it using HOMEBREW_INSTALL_BADGE
219 2019-11-07T13:38:23  <wumpus> "checking for F_FULLFSYNC... no" looks like the detection is somehow not working, fullfsync is a MacOS thing right?
220 2019-11-07T13:40:41  <wumpus> oh, I think I understand the issue
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224 2019-11-07T13:57:29  <fanquake> wumpus let me know when that PR is "stable" enough to test in various places
225 2019-11-07T13:59:32  <wumpus> fanquake: sure; it should work now on linux/windows/osx, though without crc32c acceleration
226 2019-11-07T14:00:00  <wumpus> integrating crc32c into the build system is going to be slightly involved, there's various new things (besides sse42 support) that need to be detected
227 2019-11-07T14:00:19  <fanquake> wumpus ok. Will do some initial testing on macOS / BSDs
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229 2019-11-07T14:00:56  <wumpus> most of the fixes I've pushed in the last hour or so, except for the FULLFSYNC one, were to make linters happy
230 2019-11-07T14:01:15  <wumpus> that's how it goes right ...
231 2019-11-07T14:01:54  <fanquake> 🙃
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233 2019-11-07T14:02:42  <fanquake> I've been trying to track down the file descriptor discrepancy for the past day or so. Think it's time to give up and dump the info in an issue..
234 2019-11-07T14:03:15  <wumpus> that sometimes helps, maybe someone else has ideas
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242 2019-11-07T14:14:16  <wumpus> cleaned up the commits; everything besides "build: Update build system for new leveldb" (and the subtree update for src/leveldb) is related to crc32c and not necessary for build at the moment
243 2019-11-07T14:14:44  <fanquake> cool
244 2019-11-07T14:15:01  <wumpus> (but also shouldn't get in the way; HAVE_CRC32C is hardwired to 0 at the moment)
245 2019-11-07T14:15:41  <fanquake> ok
246 2019-11-07T14:15:52  <fanquake> are we discussing 0.19.0 release at the meeting this arvo?
247 2019-11-07T14:16:05  <wumpus> yes, we should
248 2019-11-07T14:16:29  <wumpus> I think it's ready, nothing else has come up with the last rc
249 2019-11-07T14:17:04  <fanquake> Yep.
250 2019-11-07T14:17:12  <fanquake> One final thing we probably want to do is at least add a note to the release notes in regards to macOS Catalina users having to "right click" and open.
251 2019-11-07T14:17:26  <fanquake> Might avoid some potential confusion.
252 2019-11-07T14:17:54  <wumpus> yes, definitely
253 2019-11-07T14:17:54  <fanquake> That's all I'll say in regards to macOS atm.
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255 2019-11-07T14:23:27  <fanquake> Can anyone remember in which PR sdaftuar mined a commit hash to have 6-7 leading 0s ?
256 2019-11-07T14:24:30  <fanquake> or it might actually have been marco
257 2019-11-07T14:24:32  <aj> fanquake: "git log 000000" should tell you, #13510
258 2019-11-07T14:24:34  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13510 | Scripts and tools: Obsolete #!/bin/bash shebang by DesWurstes · Pull Request #13510 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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260 2019-11-07T14:25:21  <fanquake> aj cheers. Guess I completely mis-remembered
261 2019-11-07T14:26:08  <aj> fanquake: marcofalke has a shorter one in #14264 by the looks
262 2019-11-07T14:26:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14264 | doc: Split depends installation instructions per arch by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #14264 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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264 2019-11-07T14:27:06  <fanquake> aj thanks for both. 14264 doesn't have any ACK comments, so I'll use 13510
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273 2019-11-07T14:47:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/46fc4d1a24c8...46e0e276398e
274 2019-11-07T14:47:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3c84dee Aaron Clauson: Updated appveyor config:
275 2019-11-07T14:47:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46e0e27 MarcoFalke: Merge #17364: Updates to appveyor config for VS2019 and Qt5.9.8 + msvc pro...
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278 2019-11-07T14:47:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17364: Updates to appveyor config for VS2019 and Qt5.9.8 + msvc project fixes (master...vs2019_oct31) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17364
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291 2019-11-07T15:03:45  <elichai2> FIxed the docker problem. I'm now getting `conftest.cpp:32:10: fatal error: sys/endian.h: No such file or directory`
292 2019-11-07T15:07:59  <wumpus> sorry, your system is middle-endian so lacks the endian header :-)
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294 2019-11-07T15:08:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/46e0e276398e...7d14e35f3fb7
295 2019-11-07T15:08:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d995762 John Newbery: [tests] Don't use TestingSetup in the checkqueue_tests
296 2019-11-07T15:08:44  <elichai2> so that's fine? I guess that's not the actual error. there's too much noise, i'll remove the `set -x` now
297 2019-11-07T15:08:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5506ecf John Newbery: [refactor] Replace global int nScriptCheckThreads with bool
298 2019-11-07T15:08:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7d14e35 MarcoFalke: Merge #17342: refactor: Clean up nScriptCheckThreads
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301 2019-11-07T15:09:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17342: refactor: Clean up nScriptCheckThreads (master...2019-11-nScriptCheckThreads-comment) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17342
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307 2019-11-07T15:20:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7d14e35f3fb7...772673dfbe70
308 2019-11-07T15:20:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fae43a9 MarcoFalke: test: Seed test RNG context for each test case, print seed
309 2019-11-07T15:20:11  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 772673d MarcoFalke: Merge #16978: test: Seed test RNG context for each test case, print seed
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312 2019-11-07T15:20:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #16978: test: Seed test RNG context for each test case, print seed (master...1909-testSeed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16978
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319 2019-11-07T15:54:15  <fanquake> #proposedmeetingtopic not so much a topic, but a reminder that if everyone wants to air / dump their GitHub grievances into #15847, I'll be discussing with GH next week
320 2019-11-07T15:54:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15847 | Feedback for GitHub CEO · Issue #15847 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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322 2019-11-07T16:01:32  <elichai2> Getting frustrated. at this point any help would be wellcome. I can't figure out why this test is failing :/ https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608789848
323 2019-11-07T16:01:40  <elichai2> ci script: https://github.com/elichai/bitcoin/blob/2019-11-powerpc64/ci/test/00_setup_env_powerpc64.sh
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325 2019-11-07T16:02:59  <fanquake> elichai2 a test, or the depends build of OpenSSL ?
326 2019-11-07T16:04:53  <fanquake> We use 'Configure' to configure OpenSSL in depends, looks like it's suggesting to use ./config instead. I'd assume Configure is bombing out for some reason
327 2019-11-07T16:05:15  <elichai2> so why will it fail only on here?
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329 2019-11-07T16:05:41  <elichai2> (maybe the tests shouldn't use the depends and add the incompatible db flag?)
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332 2019-11-07T16:06:37  <fanquake> I'd guess no one has tested a depends build with a powerpc64le-unknown-linux-gnu HOST before, and haven't run into the OpenSSL configure failure
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334 2019-11-07T16:08:04  <elichai2> fanquake: what do you think, should I try fighting it (replacing Configure with `./config` or just not use the depends?)
335 2019-11-07T16:08:26  <fanquake> elichai2 I'm going to spin up a container and take a quick look in a second.
336 2019-11-07T16:08:41  <fanquake> In any case hopefully OpenSSL will be gone soon
337 2019-11-07T16:08:58  <elichai2> k. i'll for now try without depends to see if any other erros come up that are more directly related to bitcoin
338 2019-11-07T16:11:39  <elichai2> if you have a local container with ppc64le feel free to debug a Docker bug i've found that made me replace `library/ubuntu` with `ppc64le/ubuntu:18.04`
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356 2019-11-07T16:53:58  <fanquake> elichai2 I've recreated your issue locally with HOST=powerpc64le-unknown-linux-gnu. OpenSSLs ./Configure fails. ./config detects ppc64le-whatever-linux2 and will configure for linux-generic32
357 2019-11-07T16:54:50  <elichai2> fanquake: does that mean it's working, `linux-generic32` doesn't sound good hehe
358 2019-11-07T16:55:02  <elichai2> (it's still building with no depends https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608821982)
359 2019-11-07T16:55:07  <fanquake> I assume linux-ppc64 is what we should be passing to ./Configure, but I don't know what detection is failing
360 2019-11-07T16:55:20  <fanquake> that openSSL doens't figure that out.
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363 2019-11-07T17:00:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/772673dfbe70...270616228bc9
364 2019-11-07T17:00:28  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6d50b26 Jon Atack: test: add logging to wallet_avoidreuse.py
365 2019-11-07T17:00:28  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0e7c90e Jon Atack: test: speed up wallet_avoidreuse.py
366 2019-11-07T17:00:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2706162 fanquake: Merge #17362: test: speed up wallet_avoidreuse, add logging
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368 2019-11-07T17:00:44  <elichai2> hmmm `/home/travis/build/elichai/bitcoin/build/bitcoin-powerpc64le-unknown-linux-gnu/src/compat/glibc_compat.cpp:75: undefined reference to `log2f_old'`
369 2019-11-07T17:00:46  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
370 2019-11-07T17:00:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #17362: test: speed up wallet_avoidreuse, add logging (master...wallet_avoidreuse-test-improvements) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17362
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372 2019-11-07T17:01:38  <elichai2> oh. we have no ifdef for powerpc
373 2019-11-07T17:02:00  <elichai2> I thought luke-jr / BlueMatt  are testing/using PowerPC
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375 2019-11-07T17:06:18  <elichai2> i'll try dropping `--enable-glibc-back-compat`
376 2019-11-07T17:07:23  <BlueMatt> I work daily on ppc64, though I dont daily build bitcoin core
377 2019-11-07T17:07:29  <BlueMatt> at least not latest master
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383 2019-11-07T17:24:15  <MarcoFalke> #14066 might fix the depends issue
384 2019-11-07T17:24:18  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14066 | gitian-linux: Build binaries for 64-bit POWER by luke-jr · Pull Request #14066 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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390 2019-11-07T17:45:19  <MarcoFalke> elichai2: The functional tests are a bit slow. You might just disable them for now
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392 2019-11-07T17:46:20  <elichai2> MarcoFalke: you're saying the failure is a timeout?
393 2019-11-07T17:46:33  <MarcoFalke> you 120 seconds rpc timeout
394 2019-11-07T17:46:38  <MarcoFalke> *yeah,
395 2019-11-07T17:46:45  <elichai2> it sucks that travis doesn't cache if the build fails :/ I need it to succeed at least once so i'll have faster builds lol
396 2019-11-07T17:47:05  <elichai2> MarcoFalke: so I should not run them?
397 2019-11-07T17:47:07  <MarcoFalke> https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608838438#L8203
398 2019-11-07T17:47:22  <MarcoFalke> You may also bump the timeouts
399 2019-11-07T17:47:48  <elichai2> I guess that's a change to the test framework though?
400 2019-11-07T17:47:56  <MarcoFalke> Idk. I kept bumping them for years
401 2019-11-07T17:48:00  <elichai2> or is there a env variable?
402 2019-11-07T17:48:04  <MarcoFalke> Maybe we should remove the timeout
403 2019-11-07T17:48:18  <MarcoFalke> They are hardcoded in the individual test files
404 2019-11-07T17:48:28  <elichai2> k. i'll start by making this work *without* functional. so I can open a PR and document what works and what doesn't, and then look into timeouts
405 2019-11-07T17:49:01  <MarcoFalke> self.rpc_timeout = 120
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410 2019-11-07T17:59:12  <wumpus> elichai2: you're not basing it on luke-jr's PR? I thought that was the idea
411 2019-11-07T17:59:39  <elichai2> :O
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414 2019-11-07T18:01:54  <elichai2> #14066?
415 2019-11-07T18:01:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14066 | gitian-linux: Build binaries for 64-bit POWER by luke-jr · Pull Request #14066 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
416 2019-11-07T18:02:01  <wumpus> yes
417 2019-11-07T18:02:14  <wumpus> would be nice to have that in for 0.20
418 2019-11-07T18:02:59  <elichai2> It's been a year, hmm the only thing there that's related is the glibc_compact. But I assume the CI will increase people's confidence in that PR?
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420 2019-11-07T18:04:29  <wumpus> helping test and review it would increase confidence in the PR, just asking because you care about ppc apparently :)
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423 2019-11-07T18:06:19  <wumpus> and yes I don't think it makes sense to add a travis run for a platform we don't distribute binaries for
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425 2019-11-07T18:06:59  <wumpus> unless it's a big endian platform, would be nice to have a big-endian travis run no matter what
426 2019-11-07T18:07:16  <sipa> wumpus: (not sure where to comment) your leveldb commit 180296c359ba248ae6f2a6094098a22fd31994d6 drops a few 'override' modifiers for no reason, i think
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428 2019-11-07T18:07:57  <wumpus> sipa: oh that's not intentional, thanks
429 2019-11-07T18:08:44  *** jarthur_ is now known as jarthur
430 2019-11-07T18:08:49  <sipa> also in 415ad71a96070dd4989153a800e6fd969269590b's commit message you have a typo in your own name
431 2019-11-07T18:08:52  <sipa> (i think!)
432 2019-11-07T18:08:58  <elichai2> wumpus: I don't even have ppc, was just excited that I found this new Travis feature, and always looking for ways to contribute :)
433 2019-11-07T18:10:26  *** diogosergio has quit IRC
434 2019-11-07T18:10:44  <wumpus> sipa: thanks, will fix
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437 2019-11-07T18:14:04  <sipa> the patchset for leveldb seems amazingly small now
438 2019-11-07T18:14:16  <sipa> and entirely upstreamable?
439 2019-11-07T18:16:02  <wumpus> sipa: yes, I think it's eventually upstreamable
440 2019-11-07T18:17:03  <sipa> this is great :)
441 2019-11-07T18:17:05  <wumpus> already had to make a patch on top on crc32c too, build system related, https://github.com/bitcoin-core/crc32c/commit/a3f2c1c13051d922cef031aec505801462080579 but should be upstreamable too I think
442 2019-11-07T18:17:46  <sipa> we're using the cmake buildsystem for crc32c?
443 2019-11-07T18:17:53  <wumpus> no :)
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445 2019-11-07T18:18:11  <sipa> then why does your patch modify CMakeLists.txt?
446 2019-11-07T18:18:12  <fanquake> Glad we don't have too
447 2019-11-07T18:18:26  <wumpus> I've integrated crc32c into the build system in the same way as leveldb, this requires being able to pass defined manually instead of having this .h file
448 2019-11-07T18:18:43  <wumpus> because cmake uses that .h.in file to provide configuration
449 2019-11-07T18:18:53  <sipa> oh i see, to make sure things don't break for when people build the patched tree using cmake
450 2019-11-07T18:18:55  <wumpus> I don't, but don't want to break their buid system...
451 2019-11-07T18:18:59  <wumpus> yes
452 2019-11-07T18:19:00  <sipa> of course
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460 2019-11-07T18:24:30  <wumpus> I have sse42 already working locally (it's not in the PR yet), now trying to get ARM64 crc32c to work
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462 2019-11-07T18:25:04  <wumpus> it's easy just have to convert the cmake detection to autoconf (it doesn't help I don't really know either very well though :)
463 2019-11-07T18:25:15  *** captjakk has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
464 2019-11-07T18:25:49  <sipa> nobody does.
465 2019-11-07T18:25:51  *** captjakk has quit IRC
466 2019-11-07T18:26:00  <wumpus> true.
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477 2019-11-07T18:51:55  <MarcoFalke> is the meeting in 9 minutes?
478 2019-11-07T18:52:05  <fanquake> *8 minutes
479 2019-11-07T18:53:30  <wumpus> I think so
480 2019-11-07T18:53:52  <wumpus> date -u shows it's 18:53 so yea
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484 2019-11-07T19:00:29  <wumpus> #startmeeting
485 2019-11-07T19:00:29  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Nov  7 19:00:29 2019 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
486 2019-11-07T19:00:29  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
487 2019-11-07T19:00:33  <kanzure> hi
488 2019-11-07T19:00:39  <gleb> hi
489 2019-11-07T19:00:41  <jonatack> bonsoir
490 2019-11-07T19:00:51  <jnewbery> hi
491 2019-11-07T19:00:56  <dongcarl> saluton
492 2019-11-07T19:01:07  <digi_james> hi
493 2019-11-07T19:01:07  <fanquake> hi
494 2019-11-07T19:01:17  <provoostenator> hi
495 2019-11-07T19:01:40  <wumpus> #topic 0.19.0 final
496 2019-11-07T19:01:42  <meshcollider> hi
497 2019-11-07T19:01:51  <sipa> hi
498 2019-11-07T19:02:07  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr
499 2019-11-07T19:02:09  <wumpus> jeremyrubin lightlike
500 2019-11-07T19:02:17  <jamesob> hi
501 2019-11-07T19:02:23  <fanquake> #17079 #16996
502 2019-11-07T19:02:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17079 | v0.19.0 testing · Issue #17079 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
503 2019-11-07T19:02:25  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16996 | Release process for 0.19.0 · Issue #16996 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
504 2019-11-07T19:02:42  <fanquake> Does anyone have new issues to report after testing rc3?
505 2019-11-07T19:02:49  *** ddustin has quit IRC
506 2019-11-07T19:02:49  <wumpus> I haven't heard of any new problems coming up with rc3, so it's probably time to tag final?
507 2019-11-07T19:02:51  <instagibbs> hi
508 2019-11-07T19:03:16  <fanquake> ACK. I haven't seen anything new either.
509 2019-11-07T19:03:26  <achow101> hi
510 2019-11-07T19:03:40  <fanquake> Also: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/37
511 2019-11-07T19:03:52  <wumpus> well, first moving the release notes back to the branch from the wiki
512 2019-11-07T19:04:10  <fanquake> and adding the macOS catalina note
513 2019-11-07T19:04:17  <wumpus> so if anyone wants to do any last minute edits in the release notes, now would be the time
514 2019-11-07T19:05:34  <MarcoFalke> ship it
515 2019-11-07T19:05:49  <wumpus> yess
516 2019-11-07T19:05:56  <fanquake> 🚀
517 2019-11-07T19:06:01  <provoostenator> Ship it!
518 2019-11-07T19:06:07  <arik_> 🛳
519 2019-11-07T19:06:33  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
520 2019-11-07T19:06:36  <fanquake> I guess we could shift topics then?
521 2019-11-07T19:06:38  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
522 2019-11-07T19:06:50  <wumpus> 7 blockers, 7 things chasing ACK
523 2019-11-07T19:06:58  <wumpus> I think that's already a perfect number so let's move on
524 2019-11-07T19:07:14  <BlueMatt> proposed topic: one last question blocking rust progress
525 2019-11-07T19:07:33  <wumpus> (anything to add/remove?)
526 2019-11-07T19:07:36  <achow101> add #17373 pls
527 2019-11-07T19:07:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17373 | wallet: Various fixes and cleanup to keypool handling in LegacyScriptPubKeyMan and CWallet by achow101 · Pull Request #17373 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
528 2019-11-07T19:08:19  <wumpus> achow101: ok, added
529 2019-11-07T19:08:24  <fanquake> Only PR I'd suggest adding is #17270. I have some new comments to make there, and think it could be split up to aid review, but could use more eyes regardless.
530 2019-11-07T19:08:26  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17270 | Feed environment data into RNG initializers by sipa · Pull Request #17270 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
531 2019-11-07T19:08:34  <gleb> I think there is some valuable discussion is going on here: #17326. Not sure it's a particularly high-prio, but I think it's worth looking at for whoever missed. It's about whether we should keep (some) p2p connections on a node restart or connect to new peers.
532 2019-11-07T19:08:36  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17326 | rfc, p2p: Eclipse attack mitigation · Issue #17326 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
533 2019-11-07T19:08:58  <gleb> It's not even mine :P
534 2019-11-07T19:09:09  <wumpus> it doesn't have to be to propose it
535 2019-11-07T19:10:19  <wumpus> but yea, that would be more like a proposed meeting topic than something for review
536 2019-11-07T19:10:54  <fanquake> Should we move onto a proposed topic? This might be a quick meeting for once.
537 2019-11-07T19:11:18  <fanquake> is nickler or instagibbs here?
538 2019-11-07T19:11:18  <gleb> I don't think at this point we need real-time discussion, as long as the conversation is happening there on github. Just wanted to bring a bit attention of everyone.
539 2019-11-07T19:11:21  <MarcoFalke> fanquake: https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
540 2019-11-07T19:11:25  <wumpus> fanquake: I think everyone is already looking at #17270
541 2019-11-07T19:11:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17270 | Feed environment data into RNG initializers by sipa · Pull Request #17270 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
542 2019-11-07T19:11:41  <wumpus> happy with adding that to high prio, though
543 2019-11-07T19:11:48  <MarcoFalke> Also, wumpus had another topic
544 2019-11-07T19:11:57  <wumpus> yes
545 2019-11-07T19:12:04  <fanquake> wumpus: if everyone is looking at it, I'm surprised there hasn't been more commentary
546 2019-11-07T19:12:15  <wumpus> quite a lot of topics this week, let's move on
547 2019-11-07T19:12:35  <wumpus> #topic security email address for bitcoin-core/secp256k1 (nickler)
548 2019-11-07T19:12:46  <sipa> real_or_random, nickler: here?
549 2019-11-07T19:13:06  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/secp256k1/pull/679
550 2019-11-07T19:13:23  <nickler> hi
551 2019-11-07T19:13:44  *** ExtraCrispy has quit IRC
552 2019-11-07T19:13:56  <BlueMatt> seems like an easy solution is proposed there: add a list for secp-securiy@bitcoincore.org and add relevant folks to it?
553 2019-11-07T19:14:00  <nickler> We're adding a SECURITY.md file to the bitcoin-core/secp256k1 repo and considered secp256k1-security@bitcoincore.org as security email address.Would it be possible to add such an email address? How are we making sure that security contacts will actually get emails forwarded to them? Who can see the content of a vulnerability report if it's sent unencrypted?
554 2019-11-07T19:14:01  <BlueMatt> I presume wumpus can do that?
555 2019-11-07T19:14:20  <wumpus> yes, I can make a forward address on bitcoin-core.org
556 2019-11-07T19:14:27  <BlueMatt> dig +short bitcoincore.org mx
557 2019-11-07T19:14:27  <BlueMatt> 10 spool.mail.gandi.net.
558 2019-11-07T19:14:27  <wumpus> just tell me who to include
559 2019-11-07T19:14:50  <wumpus> doesn't have to be in the meeting :p
560 2019-11-07T19:14:53  <nickler> wumpus: cool, will do in private
561 2019-11-07T19:15:00  <sipa> we'd need to put it on the bitcoincore.org website as well, i think
562 2019-11-07T19:15:09  <sipa> together with gpg keys of some/all of the people involved
563 2019-11-07T19:15:19  <wumpus> sure
564 2019-11-07T19:15:22  <BlueMatt> sounds good, next topic?
565 2019-11-07T19:15:28  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
566 2019-11-07T19:15:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] elichai opened pull request #17402: Travis support for PowerPC64 (master...2019-11-powerpc64) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17402
567 2019-11-07T19:15:30  *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
568 2019-11-07T19:15:49  <wumpus> #topic opt-in SRD (instagibbs)
569 2019-11-07T19:16:04  <wumpus> #17331
570 2019-11-07T19:16:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17331 | Use effective values throughout coin selection by achow101 · Pull Request #17331 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
571 2019-11-07T19:17:04  <achow101> instagibbs wanted to ask whether we should consider making SRD something that is opt in instead of outright replacing the current knapsacksolver fallback
572 2019-11-07T19:17:25  *** watchtower has quit IRC
573 2019-11-07T19:17:30  <wumpus> could at least initially do that I guess
574 2019-11-07T19:17:38  <gleb> Is it assumed that everybody knows what does SRD stand for?
575 2019-11-07T19:17:43  <achow101> so people who care could set some switch to use srd as the fallback so that we aren't breaking things too much
576 2019-11-07T19:17:54  <sipa> gleb: single random draw
577 2019-11-07T19:18:03  <wumpus> replacing it is goig to be much more controversial than adding a new method
578 2019-11-07T19:18:15  <achow101> but I don't think anyone would opt in because what user knows that srd is or really cares about the coin selection algo details?
579 2019-11-07T19:18:45  <achow101> My current pr for srd is to actually use both knapsack and srd, then choose the one that produces the "better" solution
580 2019-11-07T19:18:48  <wumpus> it's something that needs to be tested/evaluate over a long period
581 2019-11-07T19:18:50  <achow101> although defining "better" is non-trivial
582 2019-11-07T19:18:54  <wumpus> people that want to test it can enable it
583 2019-11-07T19:19:39  <achow101> i'm not convinced that people are going to test it
584 2019-11-07T19:19:57  <wumpus> you mean, no one?
585 2019-11-07T19:20:07  <meshcollider> Probably lol
586 2019-11-07T19:20:18  <wumpus> that's a dangerous statement, if you think no one cares, why work on it?
587 2019-11-07T19:20:43  <sipa> a possibility could be to run both, and add a debug log that tells you what SRD would have done instead
588 2019-11-07T19:21:10  <achow101> I would guess that the people who would test it are not the same people who make enough transactions for it to matter
589 2019-11-07T19:21:22  <wumpus> that doesn't matter
590 2019-11-07T19:21:36  <sipa> there's a big difference between people in general being interested in a feature ("better coin selection" i think certainly qualified) and people with both the technical means and in a situation where they can provide good feedback
591 2019-11-07T19:21:48  <jonatack> perhaps it needs awareness raised about it? via bitcoin optech, forums, etc.
592 2019-11-07T19:21:49  <achow101> then there's no meaningful results or feedback
593 2019-11-07T19:21:51  <wumpus> though it might mean you need to convince people that make enough transactions to test it, maybe
594 2019-11-07T19:22:01  <wumpus> that's easier if it's an option
595 2019-11-07T19:22:49  *** nosss2 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
596 2019-11-07T19:22:56  <wumpus> I don't think we can have this discussion without anyone arguing to add it
597 2019-11-07T19:23:29  <wumpus> let's move to next topic
598 2019-11-07T19:23:51  <wumpus> #topic Subtree organization and linters (wumpus)
599 2019-11-07T19:23:56  *** _Francisco_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
600 2019-11-07T19:24:08  <fanquake> linters 😺
601 2019-11-07T19:24:27  <wumpus> so while trying to add crc32c to the tree (because the new leveldb uses that), I've noticed that the exceptions to linting are spread all over the place
602 2019-11-07T19:24:56  <wumpus> I think it'd be useful to move subtrees to one place in the tree
603 2019-11-07T19:25:13  <sipa> yes!
604 2019-11-07T19:25:16  <MarcoFalke> Linters shouldn't be a reason to move source code around
605 2019-11-07T19:25:17  <BlueMatt> ack
606 2019-11-07T19:25:18  <wumpus> so that doxygen knows to avoid it, linters know to avoid it, etc
607 2019-11-07T19:25:23  <gleb> broke: minting; woke: linting
608 2019-11-07T19:25:39  <MarcoFalke> But I agree it makes sense even absent of linters
609 2019-11-07T19:25:45  <BlueMatt> mostly cause putting them in one place is clean from a "this isnt our code, you should know that" human pov
610 2019-11-07T19:25:57  <BlueMatt> but, yea, my preference for anything where linters come up is to remove them :)
611 2019-11-07T19:26:00  <wumpus> soo
612 2019-11-07T19:26:08  <wumpus> look at this commit: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17398/commits/50c86bfc0bfb44c3962b681320aee8d54fc8614d
613 2019-11-07T19:26:09  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Any reason to not run doxygen on it?
614 2019-11-07T19:26:20  <wumpus> I had to change 10 places (and more) just to add one subtree
615 2019-11-07T19:26:28  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: because it's not our code
616 2019-11-07T19:26:39  <wumpus> I don't want general google documentation in our doxygen
617 2019-11-07T19:26:47  <jonasschnelli> Can't attend the meeting today...
618 2019-11-07T19:27:12  <wumpus> it's meant to document bitcoin core, not leveldb, or a crc32 library
619 2019-11-07T19:27:36  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
620 2019-11-07T19:27:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #17403: doc: reintegrate 0.19.0 release notes (0.19...reintegrate_relnotes_019) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17403
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622 2019-11-07T19:27:38  <MarcoFalke> ok, fine
623 2019-11-07T19:27:58  <wumpus> do you think it would not only be clutter?
624 2019-11-07T19:28:37  <wumpus> in any case that leaves the linters and everything
625 2019-11-07T19:28:39  <wumpus> I think a mess now
626 2019-11-07T19:29:29  <wumpus> it took me an hour or so to find them all
627 2019-11-07T19:29:31  <MarcoFalke> #action Move subtrees to one place
628 2019-11-07T19:29:49  <sipa> it seems ctaes and secp256k1 are included in doxygen, though
629 2019-11-07T19:30:10  <wumpus> that's probably accidental
630 2019-11-07T19:30:20  <jnewbery> an alternative would be to have an exclude.txt file in the linter directory and have all linters read from there
631 2019-11-07T19:30:24  <wumpus> it's also easy to forget one
632 2019-11-07T19:31:15  <jnewbery> (not saying we shouldn't change code organization structure, just agree with Marco that it shouldn't be driven by satisfying the linters)
633 2019-11-07T19:31:17  <wumpus> yes, that's also possible
634 2019-11-07T19:31:44  <wumpus> oh I agree
635 2019-11-07T19:31:50  <sipa> or have a directory subtrees with all the subtrees? :)
636 2019-11-07T19:31:52  <fanquake> another alternative would be to just remove all the linters, as they seem to take up a disproportionate amount of everyones time 🦆
637 2019-11-07T19:32:22  <MarcoFalke> fanquake: Not having them also takes up time, unfortunately (as we recently saw)
638 2019-11-07T19:32:22  <jnewbery> Concept ACK directory subtrees with subtrees
639 2019-11-07T19:32:24  <jamesob> something something baby bathwater
640 2019-11-07T19:32:40  <wumpus> FWIW doxygen input is already generated using automake so it'd be trivial to generate it from a central list
641 2019-11-07T19:32:59  <wumpus> the linters are shell scripts all over the place
642 2019-11-07T19:33:11  <BlueMatt> ignoring linters, I think its a good idea to put them all in one place, and it looks like no one materially disagreed?
643 2019-11-07T19:33:12  <wumpus> using different ways to scan the tree
644 2019-11-07T19:33:15  <wumpus> so that's more work...
645 2019-11-07T19:33:16  <BlueMatt> so...next topic?
646 2019-11-07T19:33:42  <fanquake> I have a real quick topic if there aren't any others left
647 2019-11-07T19:33:48  <BlueMatt> i haz topic
648 2019-11-07T19:33:49  <MarcoFalke> It is going to change all includes. Incoming merge conflicts
649 2019-11-07T19:33:58  <wumpus> #topic rust in bitcoin core (BlueMatt)
650 2019-11-07T19:34:10  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, it's a mess to clean up a mess
651 2019-11-07T19:34:20  <MarcoFalke> lol
652 2019-11-07T19:34:23  <BlueMatt> one question about the rust stuff that wasn't answered in the last meeting (#16834)...in the last meeting the conclusion was "why merge if not shipped by default", so I set it as default, and this added a new question...if you dont have rustc installed, should configure fail, or just warn and not build rust.
653 2019-11-07T19:34:23  <BlueMatt> cfields made the point that this results in silently building binaries with significantly different feature sets than release ones, which feels super strange, but I figure folks will complain if suddenly master stops building for them cause rustc is required unless you say --disable-rust. thoughts?
654 2019-11-07T19:34:26  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16834 | Fetch Headers over DNS by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #16834 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
655 2019-11-07T19:35:07  <BlueMatt> other than this it seems that pr is Ready to Go (tm)
656 2019-11-07T19:35:24  <jamesob> seems pretty aggressive to me to require rustc by default
657 2019-11-07T19:35:25  <wumpus> but if someone wants to fix the linters to use a central exclude list that's fine with me too ,anyhow, I really don't know what's the best solution here, but I think something needs to change
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659 2019-11-07T19:36:19  <fanquake> I don't think rustc should be a requirement to build master, I also agree that silently failing to build new feature sets feels like the wrong behaviour.
660 2019-11-07T19:36:20  <wumpus> also I didn't really like including crc32c in our main src directory, it's kind of indirect
661 2019-11-07T19:36:35  <wumpus> something like /src/external would be better
662 2019-11-07T19:36:36  <sipa> why not just leave the rust stuff off by default?
663 2019-11-07T19:36:49  <wumpus> yes, leave the rust stuff off by default, at least initially
664 2019-11-07T19:36:50  <BlueMatt> sipa: you're three meetings late on that one :p
665 2019-11-07T19:37:13  <sipa> yeah, haven't paid much attention to that
666 2019-11-07T19:37:17  <sipa> but i don't see why that isn
667 2019-11-07T19:37:24  <sipa> 't the obvious solution
668 2019-11-07T19:37:34  <jnewbery> Sorry, I also missed the 'on by default' decision
669 2019-11-07T19:37:35  <BlueMatt> well I mean we could also leave it off by default, but there was strong agreement to have it on by default in 0.20
670 2019-11-07T19:37:46  <BlueMatt> I dont think there were any voices that disagreed with that
671 2019-11-07T19:37:48  <promag> hi
672 2019-11-07T19:37:55  <jnewbery> BlueMatt: do you have a link? Struggling to find it in my scrollback
673 2019-11-07T19:37:58  <wumpus> I haven't seen that
674 2019-11-07T19:38:05  <wumpus> I like to merge *some* rust code by 0.20
675 2019-11-07T19:38:23  <BlueMatt> (built by default, not, like, making new network calls by default at runtime, that is)
676 2019-11-07T19:38:24  <wumpus> I think it's best to have it disabled by default initally
677 2019-11-07T19:38:25  <meshcollider> Maybe the "strong agreement" was just everyone missing the discussion :p
678 2019-11-07T19:38:25  <jamesob> and just to clarify, there's no way that a failure in any of the rust subsystems can cascade over to the other processes, right?
679 2019-11-07T19:38:27  <BlueMatt> (in case that was the confusion)
680 2019-11-07T19:38:40  <wumpus> it's always possible to change a default
681 2019-11-07T19:38:51  <wumpus> but you're going to have a merge harder time getting it merged it you want to require it
682 2019-11-07T19:38:54  <BlueMatt> yes, jamesob, that is (to my knowledge) true.
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684 2019-11-07T19:39:06  <fanquake> #17090 some default discussion in here
685 2019-11-07T19:39:08  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17090 | RFC: Rust code integration · Issue #17090 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
686 2019-11-07T19:39:10  <BlueMatt> wumpus: I personally dont want to require it, my preference was just "on if you have rustc available"
687 2019-11-07T19:39:18  <BlueMatt> but cfields pointed out this felt....strange
688 2019-11-07T19:39:30  <BlueMatt> cause you would just silently get things that had different feature sets from release
689 2019-11-07T19:39:36  <wumpus> I like explicit configuration flags, but anyhow
690 2019-11-07T19:39:56  <promag> BlueMatt: isnt that the same as with qt?
691 2019-11-07T19:40:04  <jamesob> I think in general whenever we release major new features they should be opt-in (if possible) for a few releases to iron out kinks
692 2019-11-07T19:40:05  <BlueMatt> you mean ./configure flags, anything written so far has to be opt-ed in at runtime
693 2019-11-07T19:40:18  <sipa> promag: but Qt is actually built and enabled by default in release builds
694 2019-11-07T19:40:19  <BlueMatt> promag: maybe zmq is a better example, at least with qt you just totally miss the bitcoin-qt binary
695 2019-11-07T19:40:26  <meshcollider> why not off unless you have --enable-rust then?
696 2019-11-07T19:40:40  <BlueMatt> jamesob: you mean opt-in, or not built-in, cause those are different
697 2019-11-07T19:40:52  <wumpus> I'm not sure why this is such a big issue, just leave it experimental for the first release and only activated with a flag
698 2019-11-07T19:41:05  <jamesob> BlueMatt: I mean available but disabled by default
699 2019-11-07T19:41:05  <wumpus> this can always be chagned later
700 2019-11-07T19:41:06  <fanquake> I feel like an explicit opt into rust stuff for 0.20.0 is ok. That would be the same as all this new android stuff. None of that is going to be anything other than explicitly opt in for a while
701 2019-11-07T19:41:21  <promag> +1 fanquake
702 2019-11-07T19:41:40  <wumpus> fanquake: exactly
703 2019-11-07T19:41:41  <BlueMatt> wumpus: I'm confused, you mean on by default at runtime or built by default
704 2019-11-07T19:41:52  <sipa> by default don't compile it in
705 2019-11-07T19:41:53  <wumpus> it's much *easier* to merge things if they're introduced that way
706 2019-11-07T19:41:53  <BlueMatt> same goes for fanquake...
707 2019-11-07T19:42:09  <wumpus> disabled in the compile by default
708 2019-11-07T19:42:15  <jnewbery> wumpus: +1
709 2019-11-07T19:42:20  <jamesob> +1
710 2019-11-07T19:42:22  <fanquake> BlueMatt I mean if you want to do rust things, do ./configure --enable-rust, and that's the only time it's used
711 2019-11-07T19:42:30  <BlueMatt> lol wumpus i distinctly recall the opposite thought last meeting
712 2019-11-07T19:42:35  <BlueMatt> but, ok, I can undo all those changes...
713 2019-11-07T19:42:39  <BlueMatt> fanquake: lol you too...
714 2019-11-07T19:42:51  <jnewbery> BlueMatt: no-one else remembers. I can't see any agreement in the Oct 10 meeting
715 2019-11-07T19:43:29  <promag> BlueMatt: just to be clear, you suggest to enable if rustc is available?
716 2019-11-07T19:44:25  <wumpus> I'm not sure having rustc in your path should change anything automatically to bitcoin configuration
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718 2019-11-07T19:44:40  <BlueMatt> yea, that was cfields' objection, which seems strange
719 2019-11-07T19:45:09  <wumpus> but than again, I like explicit configuration options, I hate 'intelligent' software trying to second-guess me in general, so :)
720 2019-11-07T19:45:23  <wumpus> any other topics?
721 2019-11-07T19:45:38  <promag> I think it's fair to expect a first-time thing to be opt-in
722 2019-11-07T19:45:59  <fanquake> I have one in regards to #15847
723 2019-11-07T19:46:02  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15847 | Feedback for GitHub CEO · Issue #15847 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
724 2019-11-07T19:46:16  <wumpus> #topic github feedback (fanquake)
725 2019-11-07T19:46:40  <fanquake> Basically just for everyone to dump any more thoughts they have into that thread, as the (in person) discussions with GitHub are happening early next week.
726 2019-11-07T19:46:45  <wumpus> BlueMatt: let' sjust aim to get some rust code in, the default discussion is really something that can be left for later and only confuses the intial merge I think
727 2019-11-07T19:47:05  <fanquake> There have already been some discussions in repos in GitHub in which I've started bringing up some of our suggestions.
728 2019-11-07T19:47:08  <BlueMatt> right, ok, I'll just turn it off by default and we can have this conversation again post-merge.
729 2019-11-07T19:47:23  <wumpus> yes, maybe in a major release or two
730 2019-11-07T19:47:27  <promag> wumpus: I have one topic: cmd notify queue
731 2019-11-07T19:47:30  <fanquake> Seems that some of the maintainers from other projects, which include some people from Rust core, agree with some of our concerns/issues.
732 2019-11-07T19:48:01  <fanquake> That was all though. If you have any thoughts you don't wont to post in the issue, feel free to get in touch with me directly.
733 2019-11-07T19:48:02  <sipa> fanquake: come say hi when you're in the bay area
734 2019-11-07T19:48:37  <fanquake> sipa: will do
735 2019-11-07T19:49:42  <wumpus> #topic cmd notify queue (promag)
736 2019-11-07T19:49:48  <promag> so -walletnottify and -blocknotify spawn a thread which in turn call system()
737 2019-11-07T19:50:17  <promag> and sometimes that can lead to some load - but that's not the issue now
738 2019-11-07T19:50:22  <wumpus> you want an unbounded queue instead of a fork bomb :)
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740 2019-11-07T19:50:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipsorcery opened pull request #17404: Remove redundant class file include from test_bitcoin msvc project (master...msvc_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17404
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742 2019-11-07T19:50:54  <wumpus> launching processes for notifications was always a bad idea
743 2019-11-07T19:51:09  <promag> well, that can't be changed I guess
744 2019-11-07T19:51:11  <wumpus> definitely if they happen often enough to consider things like that
745 2019-11-07T19:51:31  <wumpus> well if it's just every 10 minutes no one complains
746 2019-11-07T19:51:41  <promag> while replacing with boost::process I've noticed that the pace of process spawning is shorter
747 2019-11-07T19:51:50  <wumpus> if it's a high frequency noticication you should use another mechanism
748 2019-11-07T19:52:24  <promag> so I wonder wdyt about adding some queue
749 2019-11-07T19:52:38  <promag> which has de bonus of guaranteeing order
750 2019-11-07T19:53:14  <promag> also, the advantage is to avoid command line placeholders
751 2019-11-07T19:53:23  <wumpus> that adds latency, also people expect the thread to run free (so keeping a command running doesn't block bitcoind), so  you can't guarantee much
752 2019-11-07T19:53:24  <promag> and pass vars via env
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754 2019-11-07T19:54:18  <promag> wumpus: I think that if a command does that now I will have problems anyway
755 2019-11-07T19:54:26  <promag> *it will
756 2019-11-07T19:54:43  <wumpus> right now, it creates a new thread an starts the command in that
757 2019-11-07T19:55:18  <promag> right, but if the command doesn't quit you end up with lots of threads?
758 2019-11-07T19:55:31  <wumpus> if you want to create say, a single-threaded worker queue for notifications, that does change how it works
759 2019-11-07T19:55:48  <wumpus> I'm sure it needs to quit some time
760 2019-11-07T19:56:13  <promag> would you nack that?
761 2019-11-07T19:56:24  <wumpus> I think it's a unnecessary change
762 2019-11-07T19:56:38  <wumpus> how it is now works for the people that use the current mechanism
763 2019-11-07T19:56:45  <wumpus> if you want more, use zmq
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765 2019-11-07T19:57:46  <wumpus> you're not going to make a system that supports high frequency notifications with process spawning
766 2019-11-07T19:58:01  <promag> my problem is that in #13339 if I use boost::process notifications are slowly handled
767 2019-11-07T19:58:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13339 | wallet: Replace %w by wallet name in -walletnotify script by promag · Pull Request #13339 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
768 2019-11-07T19:58:14  <wumpus> why?
769 2019-11-07T19:58:41  <wumpus> is boost process so inefficient? what does it do differently?
770 2019-11-07T19:58:44  <promag> my guess is that because internally it has to guard getenv/send etc
771 2019-11-07T19:58:55  <promag> setenv
772 2019-11-07T19:58:57  <sipa> how does a queue help?
773 2019-11-07T19:59:02  <wumpus> promag: why?
774 2019-11-07T19:59:09  <wumpus> you can provide an environment when you exec
775 2019-11-07T19:59:14  <wumpus> there's no need to ever call setenv
776 2019-11-07T19:59:41  <wumpus> in a multi-threaded process you definitely don't want to use that
777 2019-11-07T19:59:44  <promag> at a lower level those calls aren't thread safe
778 2019-11-07T20:00:01  <wumpus> there are thread safe calls at a low leven
779 2019-11-07T20:00:03  <wumpus> l
780 2019-11-07T20:00:26  <wumpus> oh, it's time
781 2019-11-07T20:00:28  <wumpus> #endmeeting
782 2019-11-07T20:00:28  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Nov  7 20:00:28 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
783 2019-11-07T20:00:28  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-11-07-19.00.html
784 2019-11-07T20:00:28  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-11-07-19.00.txt
785 2019-11-07T20:00:28  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-11-07-19.00.log.html
786 2019-11-07T20:00:33  <sipa> #lunch
787 2019-11-07T20:00:47  <promag> sipa: adopting a queue to guarantee order doesn't fix that, but in turn its no longer a problem :P
788 2019-11-07T20:00:55  <wumpus> promag: man execvpe
789 2019-11-07T20:01:02  <jnewbery> wumpus: MarcoFalke: meshcollider: 15931 I think is ready for merge. ACKs on 36b68de from ryanofsky, jnewbery, jkczyz, promag
790 2019-11-07T20:01:14  <MarcoFalke> #15931
791 2019-11-07T20:01:15  <promag> ill dig a little more, ty
792 2019-11-07T20:01:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15931 | Remove GetDepthInMainChain dependency on locked chain interface by ariard · Pull Request #15931 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
793 2019-11-07T20:02:24  <meshcollider> jnewbery: sweet I'll take a look today
794 2019-11-07T20:02:34  <jnewbery> thanks!
795 2019-11-07T20:03:12  <wumpus> promag: sorry to be so cynical but the way you way that, the more I hear people talking about boost::process the more I start thinking that it's a bad idea to start using it
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797 2019-11-07T20:04:38  <wumpus> things like thread safe calls for process spawning have been solved in the 90's, it's not some magic new technology
798 2019-11-07T20:05:08  <promag> The execvpe() function is a GNU extension.
799 2019-11-07T20:05:15  <promag> from https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/3-execvpe/
800 2019-11-07T20:07:45  <promag> wumpus: https://pastebin.com/9KT2qyHG
801 2019-11-07T20:07:47  <wumpus> so do you need to override the environemtn?
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804 2019-11-07T20:08:37  <wumpus> we've always passed things as arguments
805 2019-11-07T20:08:53  <promag> wumpus: escaping issues
806 2019-11-07T20:09:25  <wumpus> wait
807 2019-11-07T20:09:26  <promag> and honestly do you prefer that over env vars?
808 2019-11-07T20:09:37  <wumpus> you're talking about low-level process spawning right?
809 2019-11-07T20:09:50  <wumpus> escaping issues are a shell thing
810 2019-11-07T20:09:57  <jeremyrubin> Oh
811 2019-11-07T20:10:01  <jeremyrubin> Meeting....
812 2019-11-07T20:10:05  <wumpus> if you don't invovle the shell, so spawn a process directly, you're not going to have escaping issues
813 2019-11-07T20:10:30  <wumpus> this is similar to python subprocess.Popen with shell=True versus shell=False
814 2019-11-07T20:10:47  <wumpus> yes, I prefer arguments to environment variables
815 2019-11-07T20:10:51  <ryanofsky> wumpus, on windows you have escaping issues without a shell because processes are starting with a single string, not an array of strings, and the c runtime library parses that into an argv array
816 2019-11-07T20:11:02  <wumpus> environment variables are for global state
817 2019-11-07T20:11:40  <wumpus> if you need to pass arguments to a process, the preferred way to do that is to use arguments
818 2019-11-07T20:12:39  <promag> wumpus: what I usually see is if something has to launch a process with a custom configuration then env vars is the choice - honestly I don't recall seeing placeholders
819 2019-11-07T20:12:45  <promag> like %s
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821 2019-11-07T20:13:32  <promag> anyway, I'll try to see what is slowing boost::process:spawn
822 2019-11-07T20:14:01  <wumpus> ryanofsky: I have no idea about windows
823 2019-11-07T20:14:23  <promag> I really dislike %w, and there's the windows "'issue'", that's why I'm trying with boost::process
824 2019-11-07T20:14:26  <wumpus> POSIX already confuses me enough,thanks
825 2019-11-07T20:14:53  <wumpus> let's look it up though
826 2019-11-07T20:15:53  <promag> yup, I don't think this stuff too.. but walletnotify lacks support for multiwallet
827 2019-11-07T20:16:10  <wumpus> which brings me back to, please use another notification mechanism
828 2019-11-07T20:16:31  <promag> wumpus: we don't support zmq in the wallet
829 2019-11-07T20:16:34  <wumpus> spawning processes is OS specific madness
830 2019-11-07T20:16:50  <promag> right
831 2019-11-07T20:16:56  <wumpus> in a sandboxed env you might not even be allowed to do that
832 2019-11-07T20:17:37  <wumpus> promag: maybe we should!
833 2019-11-07T20:17:47  <promag> I think that good solutions is a) some PR for longpoll by jonasschnelli b) push to some amqp
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835 2019-11-07T20:20:00  <promag> problem with a) you need a long poll for each wallet
836 2019-11-07T20:20:13  <wumpus> so to be clear I'm not arguing to remove walletnotify etc, if the load is low enough that spawning processes is good enoguh, then it's good enough, but I don't think it's worth spending a lot of work to improve/change it, especially incompatibly or movingthings to environment variables etc
837 2019-11-07T20:21:02  <promag> wumpus: right, I'm ok with last decision - just support %w in linux/mac
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839 2019-11-07T20:21:08  <wumpus> so why is wallet zmq not a thing?
840 2019-11-07T20:21:16  <wumpus> why notwork on that instead?
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842 2019-11-07T20:21:37  <promag> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
843 2019-11-07T20:22:00  <promag> I think that was discussed before
844 2019-11-07T20:22:06  <wumpus> okay
845 2019-11-07T20:22:16  <promag> if the subscriber is down then you miss notifications?
846 2019-11-07T20:22:35  <promag> I don't remember
847 2019-11-07T20:22:39  <sipa> zmq is only useful as a "you need to poll right now" mechanism
848 2019-11-07T20:22:47  <wumpus> I don't think spawning processes is 100% guaranteed either
849 2019-11-07T20:22:56  <sipa> you need to poll at startup/intermittently anyway; zmq helps reduce your latency
850 2019-11-07T20:23:12  <wumpus> it's extremely hard, maybe impossible to make a notification mechanism that is 100% loss proof
851 2019-11-07T20:23:13  <promag> so the zmq message is (new stuff in wallet x, bye)
852 2019-11-07T20:23:29  <wumpus> sipa: right
853 2019-11-07T20:23:38  <wumpus> and it includes sequence numbers so you know if you missed something
854 2019-11-07T20:24:01  <wumpus> (maybe use a block chain for your notifications *ducks)
855 2019-11-07T20:24:53  <promag> that's so 2010..
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859 2019-11-07T20:42:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/270616228bc9...2fb6140d585f
860 2019-11-07T20:42:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b80f7db Aaron Clauson: Remove redundant class file includes from test_bitcoin project.
861 2019-11-07T20:42:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2fb6140 fanquake: Merge #17404: Remove redundant class file include from test_bitcoin msvc p...
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864 2019-11-07T20:43:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #17404: Remove redundant class file include from test_bitcoin msvc project (master...msvc_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17404
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871 2019-11-07T21:03:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #17405: wallet: Remove unused boost::this_thread::interruption_point (master...1911-walletNoBoost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17405
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877 2019-11-07T21:18:14  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] BlockMechanic opened pull request #17406: Fix http server (master...fix-http-server) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17406
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880 2019-11-07T21:18:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] BlockMechanic closed pull request #17406: Fix http server (master...fix-http-server) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17406
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890 2019-11-07T21:52:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #17407: Add MempoolInstance() to get the current mempool (master...1911-txPoolOptional) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17407
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907 2019-11-07T22:36:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #17408: Replace assert with ASSERT (master...1911-assertASSERT) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17408
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913 2019-11-07T22:51:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #17408: Replace assert with ASSERT (master...1911-assertASSERT) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17408
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