12022-01-21T00:00:33 <sugarpuff_> Thanks michaelfolkson, I don't think anyone will answer that email, and my questions aren't directed to Jack Dorsey :P.
22022-01-21T00:00:34 <sugarpuff_> prayank nipped out before finishing what he wrote... Greg Maxwell no longer contributes to bitcoin - isn't that because of the lawsuit? If so, then Craig can continue to sue the remaining developers and kick everyone out if nobody goes to court against him. I don't think anyone here can really give me an answer, since this is a decision they have to make on their own (or together), but I just wanted to share my
32022-01-21T00:00:34 <sugarpuff_> thoughts, etc.
42022-01-21T00:02:58 <sipa> This is off-topic
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342022-01-21T03:01:49 <fanquake> Blocked shahinfe from the /bitcoin org. Also for spamming the /bips wiki
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942022-01-21T08:19:48 <laanwj> please keep the CSW shit out of here
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1372022-01-21T10:43:26 <bitcoin-git> [gui] w0xlt opened pull request #533: gui: add more detailed address error message (master...1_error_message_addr) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/533
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1562022-01-21T11:39:11 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] w0xlt opened pull request #24121: wallet: treat P2TR address with invalid x-only pubkey as invalid (master...validate_P2TR_invalid_pk) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24121
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1672022-01-21T12:38:30 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #24122: refactor: replace RecursiveMutex `cs_vProcessMsg` with Mutex (and rename) (master...202201-refactor_replace_RecursiveMutex_cs_vProcess) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24122
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1732022-01-21T13:11:42 <stick> sipa: what HW did you use for testing https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24115#issuecomment-1018001885 ?
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1782022-01-21T13:43:17 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24123: [POC] build: enable Pointer Authentication and Branch Target Identification for aarch64 (Linux) (master...mbranch_protection_aarch64_linux) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24123
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2342022-01-21T18:23:04 <jeremyrubin> hey cfields can you have a look at #21702 build failure?
2352022-01-21T18:23:06 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21702 | Implement BIP-119 Validation (CheckTemplateVerify) by JeremyRubin · Pull Request #21702 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2362022-01-21T18:23:08 <jeremyrubin> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/34924083/mingw32-make-error-error-once-flag-in-namespace-std-does-not-name-a-type
2372022-01-21T18:23:20 <jeremyrubin> https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/issues/460
2382022-01-21T18:24:25 <jeremyrubin> sort of weird b/c we use once_flag and call_once in other places in the code, so it looks like we're somehow linking with the wrong options?
2392022-01-21T18:26:28 <jeremyrubin> looks like laanwj might know whats going on here based on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8653
2402022-01-21T18:27:53 <sipa> @stick: https://www.96boards.org/product/developerbox/
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2432022-01-21T18:30:16 <jeremyrubin> specific errors are here https://gist.github.com/JeremyRubin/b3fc2ba910a8e5b6b807df3746e949d9
2442022-01-21T18:30:41 <jeremyrubin> impl_pthread not getting linked
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2482022-01-21T19:09:56 <laanwj> jeremyrubin: that's a 5 year old issue, i'm sure it's no longer relevant? we've been using the posix variant since forever
2492022-01-21T19:10:15 <laanwj> jeremyrubin: IIRC libbitcoin_consensus isn't linked against pthread intentionally, it's not supposed to be threaded
2502022-01-21T19:11:30 <laanwj> because it could be used from non-threaded C code, or code using some completely different threading model
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2542022-01-21T19:25:39 <laanwj> i'd agree "using C++ synchronization primitives" isn't threading in itself, but apparently it does cause linking to one
2552022-01-21T19:26:57 <jeremyrubin> laanwj: ok that makes sense I guess, but it's problematic slightly since the scriptchecks generated are designed to be threadsafe so i wanted to ensure that i had a low cost way to do cache on first use... but it sounds like that's troublesome no matter what I do (mutex, atomic, etc)
2562022-01-21T19:28:00 <laanwj> right-even atomic isn't guaranteed, on some platforms it can be done with instructions, but on others it does need support from the OS through a threading library
2572022-01-21T19:29:09 <jeremyrubin> i thought c++ requires atomics OR proof no threads are used otherwise things like static init are broken?
2582022-01-21T19:29:27 <laanwj> any caching would have to be done at a higher level
2592022-01-21T19:29:43 <jeremyrubin> hmm that seems like a boundary violation
2602022-01-21T19:29:52 <jeremyrubin> this caching is required for validation to be correct
2612022-01-21T19:29:59 <laanwj> not in the consensus code itself, i think it makes sense from the perspective that libbitcoin_consensus is supposed to be stateless too
2622022-01-21T19:30:17 <laanwj> wait, no, consensus never should need caching between validations to be correct
2632022-01-21T19:30:29 <jeremyrubin> PrecomputedData is required for correctness
2642022-01-21T19:30:42 <jeremyrubin> where correctness includes runtime
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2662022-01-21T19:31:17 <jeremyrubin> you don't need caching between validations, but you do need caching of validation data to prevent quadratic hashing
2672022-01-21T19:31:33 <laanwj> in that case isn't there another way to manage the context
2682022-01-21T19:31:51 <laanwj> like, cache it within a call somehow instead of between them
2692022-01-21T19:32:08 <jeremyrubin> no, because that reintroduces quadratic hashing
2702022-01-21T19:32:18 <jeremyrubin> N inputs having to do a N sized computation ==> N^2
2712022-01-21T19:33:09 <jeremyrubin> laanwj: the way to get rid of it is to just always pre-compute, rather than cache on first use, but that has an overhead if you don't use the cache at all
2722022-01-21T19:33:19 <jeremyrubin> which was feedback from jamesob to not do that
2732022-01-21T19:33:26 <sipa> libbitcoinconsensus right now doesn't even support taproot
2742022-01-21T19:33:34 <jeremyrubin> one thing we could do is make PrecomputedData an abstract base class
2752022-01-21T19:33:42 <sipa> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21158
2762022-01-21T19:33:42 <jeremyrubin> and have getter methods for the fields
2772022-01-21T19:34:20 <jeremyrubin> errr
2782022-01-21T19:34:34 <sipa> and the single-call per input model that libbitcoinconsensus has is inherently vulnerable to quadratic hashing
2792022-01-21T19:34:59 <jeremyrubin> make the BIP119LazyInit function defined by users of the abstract base
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2822022-01-21T19:36:40 <jeremyrubin> another option would be to make precomputeddata take a lambda for BIP119LazyInit
2832022-01-21T19:36:56 <jeremyrubin> that's the smallest code change impact I guess?
2842022-01-21T19:37:18 <jeremyrubin> and if no lambda provided, it should just compute the things eagerly
2852022-01-21T19:38:09 <jeremyrubin> that would force the sync responsibility up the stack.
2862022-01-21T19:38:57 <laanwj> agree, the libbitcoinconsensus API which is too low-level for most purposes, the libbitcoin_kernel model does allow for threading, caching etc, but we don't have it yet
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2882022-01-21T19:43:06 <jeremyrubin> i'm somewhat indifferent as to what the right path is, be it to just always cache for now (small performance impact), to do a lambda pass wrapping call_once, to enable linking pthread, or to do something more sophisticated. i'll go with the flow on it, care more about adressing jamesob feedback ultimately
2892022-01-21T19:44:35 <jeremyrubin> also maybe possible to write a basic call_once alternative using just atomics (which might not have the same link error) and then wrap it based on platform?
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2932022-01-21T19:59:09 <laanwj> passing in a lambda could work i guess if it's optional (in the case of libbitcoin_consensus use it would be empty), i don't like platform specific workarounds
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3052022-01-21T20:41:46 <jamesob> jeremyrubin: I like the sound of the lambda pass, maybe that's worth trying
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3322022-01-21T22:46:50 <backes> hey, is 70016 the latest protocol version?
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3442022-01-21T23:27:58 <jeremyrubin> so the approach ends up a little convoluted API wise, but I think it gives us everything we wanted:
3452022-01-21T23:27:58 <jeremyrubin> Lambda for caching, which can use call_once (used from CheckInputsScripts), force option just precomputes it always (threadsafe), and no lambda + no force gives you a default cache on first use which is not thread safe. You can make a PrecomputedData with a lambda, or pass to init, but if you do both we don't allow overriding (since it's probably a
3462022-01-21T23:27:58 <jeremyrubin> logic error)
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