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242019-12-16T09:58:41 <nickler> ZmnSCPxj: I didn't mean to say that you could just use lightning implementations as they exist today. I was essentially thinking of a less powerful version of nodelets (which I only read about last week).
252019-12-16T09:58:58 <ZmnSCPxj> Ah, I see.
262019-12-16T09:59:11 <ZmnSCPxj> So...... `R` is somehow coordinated between the implementations?
272019-12-16T09:59:31 <ZmnSCPxj> a la nodelets, effectively
282019-12-16T10:00:17 <ZmnSCPxj> hmmmm.... what can nodelets do that your proposal cannot, and what is the advantage?
292019-12-16T10:04:57 <nickler> There's no advantage of my ad-hoc idea. I was only thinking of "single-party nodelets" for security, i.e. mitigating hot wallet risks.
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442019-12-16T11:37:38 <ZmnSCPxj> seems similar to idea by devrandom?
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682019-12-16T18:43:17 <devrandom> ( https://gitlab.com/ksedgwic/liposig/-/wikis/Lightning-Policy-Signing-PoC )
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722019-12-16T20:04:17 <aj> devrandom: if you're forwarding other people's HTLCs, there's a bunch of edge cases that are hard to deal with i think -- you want to not sign the outgoing channel update until you have the incoming channel update; but you also want to know the incoming channel hasn't been fully closed in a previous state too. i think if you compromise the node and open a channel to the node, you can steal large
732019-12-16T20:04:17 <aj> chunks of money that way even without having direct access to the secrets (now i think about it, could conceivably use UTXO commitments to prove the channel hasn't been closed)
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762019-12-16T20:29:15 <devrandom> aj: agreed. already captured these in https://gitlab.com/ksedgwic/liposig/blob/master/docs/policy-controls.md (e.g. "HTLC receive channel validity")
772019-12-16T20:30:34 <devrandom> and mentioned the need to have a set of oracles that commit to the UTXO set in https://medium.com/@devrandom/securing-lightning-nodes-39410747734b
782019-12-16T20:31:13 <devrandom> would love a thorough review to see if we missed anything
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