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242020-01-26T17:49:23  <pinheadmz> I notice in the actual PR to bitcoin core, gbt_force is set to true for taproot - was that the case for segwit as well? Or did miners have to specify "segwit" in the "rules" field for GBT?
252020-01-26T17:51:28  <sipa> see bip145
262020-01-26T17:52:07  <sipa> (i have not thought hard about interaction between GBT and taproot; code is obviously WIP)
272020-01-26T17:55:52  <pinheadmz> i was asking more in reference to signaling and activation. IIUC, if gbt_force = false, the mining software (outside of bitcoin core) must specify the rule to set the bits in the version ?
282020-01-26T18:20:27  <sipa> i don't exactly remember what the semantics of the GBT values and gbt_force are
292020-01-26T18:26:49  <gmaxwell> uh there isn't any special need for mining support for this.
302020-01-26T18:27:01  <gmaxwell> segwit was special.
312020-01-26T18:43:41  <pinheadmz> right ok I think that answers my quesiton: for segwit, just upgrading to v13.1 wasn't enough to set the bit, because the gbt client had to be ready as well.
322020-01-26T18:47:24  <sipa> right
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362020-01-26T19:36:49  <luke-jr> pinheadmz: gbt_force is unrelated to miner required to specify.. it means the miner must reject the template if they don't support it
372020-01-26T19:37:16  <luke-jr> unless taproot is significantly changing GBT itself (unlikely, though I'm not 100% sure) it should use gbt_force so old miners accept it
382020-01-26T19:37:58  <luke-jr> the client-side rule list just tells the server what rules the client knows, so the server can prepare a compatible template
392020-01-26T19:38:30  <sipa> ok so gbt_force should be false for taproot
402020-01-26T19:39:01  <sipa> i'm pretty sure that miners need no adjustments
412020-01-26T19:39:07  <luke-jr> sipa: true
422020-01-26T19:39:22  <luke-jr> gbt_force = miners can ignore the rule if they use the template as-is
432020-01-26T19:39:33  <luke-jr> gbt_force=false -> miners must support the rule period
442020-01-26T19:40:24  <sipa> ah
452020-01-26T19:40:45  <sipa> what if miners don't need to do anything at all?
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472020-01-26T19:40:55  <luke-jr> miners must always understand all rules to make any modificatiosn to the template
482020-01-26T19:41:08  <luke-jr> if they make no modifications, gbt_force=true allows them to use the template as-is
492020-01-26T19:41:14  <sipa> ok
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512020-01-26T19:50:32  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you can happily drop transactions and such, taproot is just a new signature style.
522020-01-26T19:50:49  <gmaxwell> the only modification you can't make is adding transactions that didn't come from your mempool.
532020-01-26T20:05:47  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: GBT isn't fine-grained enough to convey that :p
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