12016-02-19T00:00:00  <midnightmagic> that's odd, i haven't had to type in a password almost since the beginning
  22016-02-19T00:00:19  <midnightmagic> PRab: what's your host machine ?
  32016-02-19T00:00:45  <PRab> Its 3 layers. Windows -> Debian -> Ubuntu.
  42016-02-19T00:00:50  <michagogo> PRab: can you pastebin an ls of your gitian-builder directory?
  52016-02-19T00:01:02  <michagogo> Okay, so sounds like LXC then
  62016-02-19T00:01:47  <michagogo> PRab: try appending this to sudoers:
  72016-02-19T00:01:49  <michagogo> ALL	ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/lxc-start
  82016-02-19T00:01:50  <michagogo> ALL	ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/lxc-execute
  92016-02-19T00:02:09  <PRab> michagogo: http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?0838433483d20ae9#NojAQkdsHDT1ylzulzFg35OB4Zb3O5jYBM5Xo1+v0xQ=
 102016-02-19T00:02:29  <michagogo> Yeah, that's set up for LXC like I thought
 112016-02-19T00:02:55  <PRab> michagogo: Isn't that just a workaround? IMO I should be able to take as long as I want to type in my password.
 122016-02-19T00:03:29  <michagogo> PRab: I would think that's a sudo thing
 132016-02-19T00:03:35  <michagogo> Not a gitian thing
 142016-02-19T00:03:57  <PRab> michagogo: Its lxc-execute that is giving the error.
 152016-02-19T00:04:25  <PRab> lxc-execute: failed to spawn 'gitian'
 162016-02-19T00:04:33  <michagogo> PRab: it's like this. gbuild calls make-clean-vm
 172016-02-19T00:04:43  <michagogo> and make-clean-vm calls on-target
 182016-02-19T00:04:49  <michagogo> which calls lxc-execute
 192016-02-19T00:05:12  <midnightmagic> :-o
 202016-02-19T00:05:30  <michagogo> I don't think any part of that imposes a timeout
 212016-02-19T00:05:46  <michagogo> So I would assume that if the sudo prompt is timing out, that's purely a sudo thing
 222016-02-19T00:06:07  <midnightmagic> lol and thereby do we discover that I do all my gitians, on that host, as root..
 232016-02-19T00:06:12  <PRab> Huh. I'll try running a sudo command and see if it fails if I just leave it there for a while.
 242016-02-19T00:06:24  <michagogo> Putting `ALL	ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/lxc-execute` in /etc/sudoers will let you not have to enter a password for that
 252016-02-19T00:06:26  <michagogo> midnightmagic: D:
 262016-02-19T00:08:41  <PRab> Should we add that to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/gitian-building.md#setting-up-debian-for-gitian-building?
 272016-02-19T00:08:54  <PRab> It already has lxc-start in there.
 282016-02-19T00:09:08  <michagogo> I think it's in gitian's README
 292016-02-19T00:09:28  <michagogo> Oh, I see
 302016-02-19T00:09:38  <michagogo> Yeah, I guess
 312016-02-19T00:10:28  <PRab> Basically, when I do a gitian build I am just saying that I followed some instructions and didn't see anything blatantly evil.
 322016-02-19T00:10:53  <PRab> I haven't put too much time into figuring out exactly how all the pieces fit together.
 332016-02-19T00:13:06  <PRab> Also, I just verified that sudo doesn't appear to have a timeout. I just left "sudo nano test.txt" waiting at the password prompt for >5 minutes and it launched nano just fine as soon as I put in my password.
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 362016-02-19T00:14:34  <raedah> what is (fAllFromMe > mine)  checking? and where does ISMINE_SPENDABLE come from? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/transactionrecord.cpp#L84-L98
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 382016-02-19T00:25:33  <michagogo> Errrr...
 392016-02-19T00:25:47  <michagogo> So on one hand, looks like Tor has it all very wrapped and automated
 402016-02-19T00:26:03  <michagogo> You just need to clone the right things, then `make` does *everything*
 412016-02-19T00:26:20  <michagogo> builds the base VMs, pulls inputs, does all the build stages
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 432016-02-19T00:26:30  <michagogo> Which is nice.
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 452016-02-19T00:26:51  <michagogo> OTOH, they seem to be using *4* different VMs... of 2 different distros...
 462016-02-19T00:27:12  <michagogo> Both Wheezy and Precise, each amd64 _and_ i386
 472016-02-19T00:29:06  <michagogo> And, er... they seem to be shipping the OS X SDK? o_O
 482016-02-19T00:29:09  <michagogo> https://people.torproject.org/~mikeperry/mirrors/sources/
 492016-02-19T00:29:19  <michagogo> Their script downloads https://people.torproject.org/~mikeperry/mirrors/sources/MacOSX10.7.sdk.tar.gz
 502016-02-19T00:29:24  <midnightmagic> almost. if your system doesn't have, for example, the tls root certs installed the wgets for the prereqs will fail (unnecessarily); if you want to run with more procs you'll have to increase memsize; it's fairly fragile.
 512016-02-19T00:29:54  <midnightmagic> michagogo: yeah I don't know how they're shipping the SDK. it wouldn't surprise me if they got permission to do it.
 522016-02-19T00:30:23  <michagogo> We're using 10.9 these days, right?
 532016-02-19T00:30:42  <michagogo> Kind of a shame. Would be nice if we could point people to Tor's copy
 542016-02-19T00:31:16  <midnightmagic> i think so
 552016-02-19T00:31:31  <midnightmagic> I have the 10.9 SDK in my gitian inputs directory anyway
 562016-02-19T00:33:08  <michagogo> They seem to be using their own fork of gitian, unupdated since June 2013
 572016-02-19T00:33:53  <michagogo> No, never mind, there's a branch that's up to date
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 602016-02-19T01:13:34  <GitHub92> [bitcoin] instagibbs opened pull request #7558: Add importprunedfunds rpc call (master...prunedforport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7558
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 702016-02-19T02:12:51  <btcdrak> michagogo: definitely need to PR that sudo fix,  it has been annoying me for months.
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1362016-02-19T08:04:09  <wumpus> michagogo midnightmagic I don't think there's any way around it: for truly deterministic builds, a cache system cannot be used, everything has to be built every time. Kind of sad but ok
1372016-02-19T08:04:54  <wumpus> every time you cache an old build product it may have been built under different circumstances, with other packages, slightly perturbing the output ijn a non-reproducible way (at least with the info given in the assert)
1382016-02-19T08:05:19  <wumpus> I also wiped my caches, again, for the 0.12 final build. That probably should be common practice for -final.
1392016-02-19T08:05:49  <wumpus> this at least makes sure that the releases can be reproduced, given that you find the historical ubuntu packages...
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1412016-02-19T08:09:35  <wumpus> the only solution would be to use a deterministic toolchain (and that isn't just the compiler - some other tools affect the results too, like tar) as well. A huge project I think.
1422016-02-19T08:16:31  <wumpus> in any case, despite the toolchain confusion, the gitian system still meets the requirement that N people build and get the same output, if they build reasonably close in time to each other. Everyone can check the binaries close to the release
1432016-02-19T08:17:19  <wumpus>  It would be nice to be able to check old versions, say, 0.10.0, with full conviction, but I don't see a strong motivation for that
1442016-02-19T08:22:57  <midnightmagic> the solution to a related problem to this (non-byte-deterministic, customer support type purposes) way for commercial enterprises has been to version the entire build environment including OS and hardware descriptors, or in the case of most of the ones I had to work with, the entire VM guest. Even then, they would get screwed up with incompatible VM hosts that weren't able to simulate the o
1452016-02-19T08:23:03  <midnightmagic> ld environments properly. So, fwiw what you guys are doing is in many respects well ahead of what commercial environments do. they viewed the problem as only something to be mitigated -- not solved permanently.
1462016-02-19T08:24:04  <midnightmagic> and it was always very, very storage-heavy..
1472016-02-19T08:29:36  <wumpus> yes, we could actually say 'we freeze and checkpoint ubuntu trusty here, at this point, and don't take upgrades anymore'
1482016-02-19T08:30:50  <wumpus> 'all 0.12 releases will be built with *exactly* this state'. On the other hand, it has to be reproducible by just downloading stuff from ubuntu itself, if we were to provide that image... that creates a way to undermine the whole system
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1502016-02-19T09:04:34  <midnightmagic> i guess there's an archival something-or-other of packages one could access from.. debian I want to say. but.  ehh. long as people trying to co-build can arrive at identical results.. and besides, for historical versions mine mostly match.
1512016-02-19T09:04:47  <midnightmagic> like when I build them way after everyone's already moved on.
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1542016-02-19T09:15:59  <wumpus> good to hear it usually works
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1612016-02-19T09:37:14  <GitHub62> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0e3ccbfb26b1...b6e00af8193f
1622016-02-19T09:37:15  <GitHub62> bitcoin/master 7eef1d0 Matthew Zipkin: Clarify description of blockindex...
1632016-02-19T09:37:15  <GitHub62> bitcoin/master b6e00af Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #7541: Clarify description of blockindex...
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1652016-02-19T09:37:24  <GitHub176> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7541: Clarify description of blockindex (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7541
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1712016-02-19T10:04:52  <michagogo> 10:29:36 <wumpus> yes, we could actually say 'we freeze and checkpoint ubuntu trusty here, at this point, and don't take upgrades anymore' | 10:30:50 <wumpus> 'all 0.12 releases will be built with *exactly* this state'. On the other hand, it has to be reproducible by just downloading stuff from ubuntu itself, if we were to provide that image... that creates
1722016-02-19T10:04:53  <michagogo> a way to undermine the whole system
1732016-02-19T10:05:10  <michagogo> Um, until something that we use gets a critical bug...
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1752016-02-19T10:05:59  <michagogo> Did this recent libc thing affect us?
1762016-02-19T10:06:28  <michagogo> If so, what if the news had come out the day after the tag, while people were building?
1772016-02-19T10:06:47  <wumpus> michagogo: yes, that's why it may not be realistic, there could be gcc bugs, or exploitable bugs on the VM, etc, necessitating an upgrade. And that all would have to be carefully checked, audited and babysitted...
1782016-02-19T10:07:47  <wumpus> michagogo: not much - libc is linked dynamically, so in every case a distro upgrade of libc will also fix bitcoin core
1792016-02-19T10:09:11  <wumpus> I'm very happy we didn't choose to release fully statically linked executables, which would have included the buggy code inside our executables
1802016-02-19T10:11:14  <michagogo> Is there anything (in the builds for any of the 3 platforms) that's statically linked from any of Ubuntu's packages?
1812016-02-19T10:11:57  <wumpus> yes. For linux at least libc++, for windows all of the mingw platform.
1822016-02-19T10:12:40  <michagogo> Hm, we have 5 builders
1832016-02-19T10:12:48  <michagogo> 5 sets of sigs* so far
1842016-02-19T10:12:58  <michagogo> And the two of us are the only ones for OS X…
1852016-02-19T10:13:07  <wumpus> uhm for linux libstdcxx, not libc++,that's the clang one
1862016-02-19T10:13:43  <michagogo> I guess we need cfields around anyway at some point to do the codesigning, so we have enough sigs to go ahead with that as soon as he gets around to building
1872016-02-19T10:13:43  <wumpus> yes, building OSX is less popular due to the officially-non-distributable input
1882016-02-19T10:13:53  <michagogo> Yeah, I know
1892016-02-19T10:14:52  <JackH> when do we have binaries out for 0.12?
1902016-02-19T10:15:48  <michagogo> wumpus: so yeah, all it takes is for some critical (or even not-so-critical but sufficiently annoying/impactful to the program) bug in any of those and we're screwed
1912016-02-19T10:16:02  <michagogo> JackH: pretty much whenever cfields gets around to building his
1922016-02-19T10:16:34  <michagogo> As soon as he's done that we'll have 3 sets of sigs on all platforms and can go ahead with codesigning and releasing
1932016-02-19T10:16:49  <JackH> so this is it right? 0.12 is officially ready now and there are no more changes?
1942016-02-19T10:17:00  <michagogo> JackH: but the code's final, so you can build it yourself if you want
1952016-02-19T10:17:11  <JackH> gotcha, very nice
1962016-02-19T10:17:17  <michagogo> And I can give you binaries now if you want
1972016-02-19T10:17:30  <JackH> sure
1982016-02-19T10:17:59  <michagogo> And yeah, unless some supercritical bug pops up (in which case 0.12.0 will be DOA and we'll probably do a 0.12.0.1), this is it
1992016-02-19T10:18:15  <michagogo> JackH: not at the computer now, but I'll upload mine soon
2002016-02-19T10:18:34  <JackH> nice, thanks michagogo
2012016-02-19T10:18:45  <michagogo> JackH: also, it'd be great if you set up gitian
2022016-02-19T10:19:17  <michagogo> Would let you easily build your own binaries, and then you could also help contribute to official releases
2032016-02-19T10:20:33  <JackH> so you have my own build compared to yours?
2042016-02-19T10:20:55  <p15> I tried to build but qt wouldn't install from homebrew :(
2052016-02-19T10:21:16  <michagogo> JackH: right
2062016-02-19T10:21:26  <JackH> I can try that michagogo
2072016-02-19T10:21:29  <michagogo> p15: have you tried the depends system?
2082016-02-19T10:21:42  <p15> no
2092016-02-19T10:21:58  <michagogo> It builds all the dependencies using our own system
2102016-02-19T10:22:17  <michagogo> I *think* you just need to cd depends && make
2112016-02-19T10:22:46  <michagogo> And then there's a ./configure argument that uses that
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2132016-02-19T10:24:56  <michagogo> p15: see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.12.0/depends/README.md
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2162016-02-19T10:43:34  <wumpus> michagogo: in all cases though, everything that is linked statically from the distro is a part of the toolchain (libgcc, libstdc++, mingw-wrappers-around-windows-libs). There are no ancillary Ubuntu packages statically linked. OSX build takes everything from custom inputs, so is expected to be the least sensitive to changes in the distro.
2172016-02-19T10:43:50  <wumpus> (in OSX's case even the compiler is taken from somewhere else)
2182016-02-19T10:44:13  <michagogo> Okay, that's good at least.
2192016-02-19T10:44:41  <michagogo> I guess that software should (I hope…) be well-maintained
2202016-02-19T10:44:48  <wumpus> the depends system is supposed to cover any non-toolchain, non-base-OS library
2212016-02-19T10:45:14  <wumpus> right, at some point there's nothing you can do but hope, unfortunatey
2222016-02-19T10:45:54  <wumpus> if there's anything to make potential attacks more difficult or more expensive, which doesn't take a lot of manpower to build/maintain, I'd of course like to know
2232016-02-19T10:47:41  <wumpus> is ubuntu itself going to switch to deterministic builds now that debian will?
2242016-02-19T10:48:55  <wumpus> if not, it would make sense to change the gitian VM to debian at some point, so that the distro can also be re-built deterministically
2252016-02-19T10:50:25  <wumpus> https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds
2262016-02-19T10:50:56  <wumpus> not quite there yet.
2272016-02-19T10:54:21  <wumpus> (although - in principle - it wouldn't need building the entire distro deterministically; just the 'trusted base set' of packages that we need)
2282016-02-19T10:55:00  <michagogo> wumpus: ask in #ubuntu
2292016-02-19T10:55:06  <michagogo> Or maybe -devel
2302016-02-19T10:55:21  <wumpus> I think it's still too theoretical now I've seen that debian isn't as far along as I thought
2312016-02-19T10:55:25  <cfields> wumpus: grr, just got to HK. I won't be able to sign until Monday :\
2322016-02-19T10:56:15  <michagogo> cfields: are you the only one that can ATM?
2332016-02-19T10:56:32  <wumpus> cfields: well, makes sense to not carry the signing keys along on a visit to China ;)
2342016-02-19T10:57:40  <cfields> wumpus: yea, i make sure to wipe them when I travel
2352016-02-19T10:57:53  <jonasschnelli> Hmm.. not sure which keys are more imortant. Windows/OSX bin signing keys or the gitian signing key.
2362016-02-19T10:58:02  <jonasschnelli> IMO the second one has more value
2372016-02-19T10:59:33  <cfields> michagogo: yes, but imo that should change, for hit-by-bus reasons if nothing else
2382016-02-19T10:59:54  <michagogo> jonasschnelli: I disagree
2392016-02-19T11:00:28  <michagogo> The codesigning cert is all that you need to get an unsuspecting user's OS to trust a binary
2402016-02-19T11:00:40  <michagogo> It's also a single point of trust
2412016-02-19T11:01:10  <michagogo> If cfields wants, he can make a malicious bin and get many people to run it
2422016-02-19T11:01:11  <wumpus>  I don't think it makes much to argue which one is more important, every link can be the weakest link. At least in the gitian case there are multiple signers, so one being compromised would be detected.
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2452016-02-19T11:01:26  <michagogo> The gitian key is- right.
2462016-02-19T11:01:46  <cfields> michagogo: i only create a detached sig, never upload the bins
2472016-02-19T11:01:55  <cfields> michagogo: it's easy enough to verify that the sig is only a sig
2482016-02-19T11:02:01  <wumpus> cfields signs, I upload the bins to bitcoin.org, good to not have one person do both
2492016-02-19T11:02:04  <michagogo> It's just one part of a process involving many people (3 at minimum)  all matching
2502016-02-19T11:02:19  <michagogo> cfields: I know that
2512016-02-19T11:03:02  <cfields> wumpus: sorry about that. Since we didn't end up with it worked out until last sunday, I figured the tag would be coming Sunday/Monday
2522016-02-19T11:03:14  <michagogo> I'm saying though, you have the codesigning certs and therefore have the theoretical ability to sign anything you want and OSes will trust that
2532016-02-19T11:03:44  <wumpus> yes, but everyone can get a codesigning cert
2542016-02-19T11:04:45  <wumpus> if we relied on the OS' verification ability only, that'd indeed be a huge issue, but there are steps all the way from the source code to uploaded, signed binaries
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2562016-02-19T11:08:48  <wumpus> would be nice if the OS-specific signing could also be distributed. For example with threshold signatures, but that would require either special OS support or reverse engineering combined with clever crypto. Or something like gitian-downloader built in the OS. One can dream :-)
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2582016-02-19T11:10:52  <fanquake> wumpus just pushed my sigs up, so you've got a third osx sig now.
2592016-02-19T11:11:28  <michagogo> fanquake: 4th*, jonasschnelli also just PR'd
2602016-02-19T11:11:46  <wumpus> fanquake: good, thanks! (though we'll have to wait for monday for the upload, we planned this in the middle of cfields's HK weekend)
2612016-02-19T11:11:59  <michagogo> But unfortunately the release will have to wait until Monday, when cfields returns from Hong Kong
2622016-02-19T11:12:06  <fanquake> wumpus no worries.
2632016-02-19T11:12:39  <michagogo> (And yeah, that kinda illustrates the bus factor here... only temporarily, thankfully)
2642016-02-19T11:13:35  <michagogo> wumpus: is it just not having the key that prevents you from signing? Or is it a platform issue (e.g. needing a Mac)?
2652016-02-19T11:15:21  <wumpus> not sure it's fair to talk of a bus factor here. In principle someone else could sign, he doesn't have the one golden key that blocks bitcoin releases forever
2662016-02-19T11:16:00  <wumpus> it would just take some time for anyone else to get signing keys and get the process to work, in this case it makes sense to just wait for monday, but it's no absolute blocker
2672016-02-19T11:16:25  <wumpus> michagogo: just distribution of responsibilities
2682016-02-19T11:16:32  <michagogo> wumpus: okay, fair enough.
2692016-02-19T11:17:00  <michagogo> Maybe a minibus factor
2702016-02-19T11:17:03  <wumpus> hehe
2712016-02-19T11:17:27  <michagogo> Nothing critical, but definitely a major inconvenience
2722016-02-19T11:18:04  <fanquake> Given we wait ~6 months for a release, I'm sure everyone can handle 2 more days
2732016-02-19T11:19:03  <fanquake> Looking forward to the new merge phase now that 0.12.0 is done.
2742016-02-19T11:41:03  <wumpus> what kind of merge phase? master has been open for 0.13.0 changes for a while
2752016-02-19T11:42:12  <wumpus> and there's already some things that should be backported to 0.12.1
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2792016-02-19T11:56:11  <wumpus> cfields: btw: I think you introduced the SCRIPT_ERR codes, does checking them in a test, as in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7517, make sense?
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3072016-02-19T13:54:26  <GitHub98> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #7559: [build-aux] Correct AC_PACKAGE_NAME brackets in bitcoin m4 scripts (master...correct-m4-brackets) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7559
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3182016-02-19T14:06:16  <GitHub134> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli opened pull request #7560: [OSX] fix brew openssl detection (master...2016/02/osx_openssl) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7560
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3312016-02-19T14:18:26  <GitHub85> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #7559: [build-aux] Correct AC_PACKAGE_NAME brackets in bitcoin m4 scripts (master...correct-m4-brackets) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7559
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3462016-02-19T14:46:56  <GitHub113> [bitcoin] fanquake reopened pull request #7559: [build-aux] Correct AC_PACKAGE_NAME brackets in bitcoin m4 scripts (master...correct-m4-brackets) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7559
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3572016-02-19T14:57:58  <Chris_Stewart_5> Documentation oriented pull requests for the bitcoin core code base is more than welcome right?
3582016-02-19T14:58:29  <Chris_Stewart_5> I.e. adding c++ docs for function calls
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3722016-02-19T15:16:15  <GitHub87> [bitcoin] btcdrak opened pull request #7561: IsSuperMajority() softfork for BIPs 68,112 and 113 (master...softfork) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7561
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4142016-02-19T17:32:54  <GitHub189> [bitcoin] btcdrak opened pull request #7562: Bump transaction version default to 2 (master...txversionbump) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7562
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