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  5 2016-05-26T00:31:44  <midnightmagic> wumpus: hello, is there a chance the payment protocol is going to go away?
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 18 2016-05-26T01:18:38  <luke-jr> midnightmagic: probably more likely if someone takes the time to replace it with a better one? ;)
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 32 2016-05-26T02:41:25  <midnightmagic> :-o
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 36 2016-05-26T03:08:31  <shesek> anyone read Aviv Zohar's new paper? http://arxiv.org/abs/1605.07524 "Hijacking Bitcoin: Large-scale Network Attacks on Cryptocurrencies"
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 55 2016-05-26T05:23:11  <GitHub60> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/47a7cfb0aa24...eb2f6f72db5b
 56 2016-05-26T05:23:11  <GitHub60> bitcoin/master 02ce2a3 Pavel Vasin: qt: askpassphrasedialog: Clear pass fields on accept...
 57 2016-05-26T05:23:12  <GitHub60> bitcoin/master eb2f6f7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8073: qt: askpassphrasedialog: Clear pass fields on accept...
 58 2016-05-26T05:23:21  <GitHub41> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8073: qt: askpassphrasedialog: Clear pass fields on accept (master...patch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8073
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 60 2016-05-26T05:24:56  <GitHub81> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/eb2f6f72db5b...e3a820751f11
 61 2016-05-26T05:24:56  <GitHub81> bitcoin/master 90963e5 fanquake: [doc] Add basic git squash example
 62 2016-05-26T05:24:57  <GitHub81> bitcoin/master e3a8207 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8034: [doc][trivial] Add basic git squash workflow [skip ci]...
 63 2016-05-26T05:25:06  <GitHub148> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8034: [doc][trivial] Add basic git squash workflow [skip ci] (master...contrib-squash) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8034
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 66 2016-05-26T05:33:12  <GitHub108> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e3a820751f11...6fc6325f77ee
 67 2016-05-26T05:33:12  <GitHub108> bitcoin/master a4d5855 21E14: CCoinsViewErrorCatcher raison-d-etre
 68 2016-05-26T05:33:13  <GitHub108> bitcoin/master 6fc6325 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8015: CCoinsViewErrorCatcher raison-d-etre...
 69 2016-05-26T05:33:17  <GitHub90> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8015: CCoinsViewErrorCatcher raison-d-etre (master...wrapper) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8015
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 82 2016-05-26T06:42:15  <assder> Question: Are unspendable outputs (such as OP_RETURN outputs) stored in the UTXO set? Will pruned nodes have to store them?
 83 2016-05-26T06:43:27  <sipa> they are not stored in the utxo set, but still occupy blockchain space
 84 2016-05-26T06:43:46  <sipa> pruned nodes store them as long as they're in recent history
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 87 2016-05-26T06:49:58  <assder> sipa: thanks
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 95 2016-05-26T07:36:42  <jtimon> so, phantomcircuit, can we decide with respect to #8077 vs #7985 vs #7947 before deciding about #8087 vs #7310 (or whatever number my next attempt at a "moveonly + doc + trivial fixes" gets)?
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169 2016-05-26T13:02:36  <GitHub106> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6fc6325f77ee...c028c7b7557d
170 2016-05-26T13:02:37  <GitHub106> bitcoin/master 581ddff Wladimir J. van der Laan: net: Add fRelayTxes flag...
171 2016-05-26T13:02:37  <GitHub106> bitcoin/master 1ab1dc3 Wladimir J. van der Laan: rpc: Add `relaytxes` flag to `getnetworkinfo`...
172 2016-05-26T13:02:38  <GitHub106> bitcoin/master c028c7b Pieter Wuille: Merge #8049: Expose information on whether transaction relay is enabled in `getnetwork`...
173 2016-05-26T13:02:46  <GitHub121> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #8049: Expose information on whether transaction relay is enabled in `getnetwork` (master...2016_05_rpc_relaytxes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8049
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202 2016-05-26T14:36:57  <CodeShark> sipa: wumpus: We should disable mining by default on nonrelease branches as discussed earlier. I started working on this idea: https://github.com/CodeShark/bitcoin/commit/34ec9e8af22f40abdcc49c32e7e153a050613ee1
203 2016-05-26T14:37:38  <CodeShark> the IsDevelopmentBranch() method should check whether it is a release branch or not rather than just whether it's the master branch
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205 2016-05-26T14:38:44  <CodeShark> is there a simple way we can determine this?
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217 2016-05-26T15:02:34  <luke-jr> CodeShark: IMO mining is the least problematic use of dev branches..
218 2016-05-26T15:02:47  <luke-jr> miners are used to patching and overriding stuff anyway
219 2016-05-26T15:03:39  <luke-jr> might make more sense to disable wallet and/or bloom
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221 2016-05-26T15:04:21  <CodeShark> luke-jr: the goal is to make it safer to merge consensus changes before releasing
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223 2016-05-26T15:04:35  <CodeShark> if the changes are merged into master they will get more tested
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234 2016-05-26T15:39:47  <GitHub162> [bitcoin] CodeShark opened pull request #8101: Disable mining on nonrelease branches. (master...disable_mining_on_nonrelease_branches) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8101
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236 2016-05-26T15:52:10  <sipa> sdaftuar: what type is 'f' in the deserialize methods in mininode?
237 2016-05-26T15:52:21  <sipa> or more specifically, can i test whether there are more bytes to read?
238 2016-05-26T15:52:33  <sdaftuar> f?
239 2016-05-26T15:52:41  <sdaftuar> oph
240 2016-05-26T15:53:05  <sipa> i'm adding a test that fRelayTxes in version is correct (because it's currently broken in master, and no test detected it)
241 2016-05-26T15:53:14  <sipa> but fRelayTxes is currently not deserialized
242 2016-05-26T15:53:21  <sipa> and it's optional per bip37
243 2016-05-26T15:53:25  <sdaftuar> ah ok
244 2016-05-26T15:54:14  <sdaftuar> i assume it's possible to tell if there are more bytes to read but i don't know how off the top of my head.  f is a BytesIO i think?
245 2016-05-26T15:54:39  <sipa> i am going to guess it has a eof() method
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248 2016-05-26T16:01:39  <sdaftuar> doesn't seem to?  docs i'm reading suggest you just call read() and see if you don't get anything back
249 2016-05-26T16:01:58  <sipa> yup
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255 2016-05-26T16:18:23  * sipa curses extensively at python
256 2016-05-26T16:18:40  <btcdrak> sipa: it needs feeding.
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264 2016-05-26T16:41:37  <CodeShark> sipa: throw a mouse at it
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266 2016-05-26T16:43:16  <sipa> sdaftuar: so the bug is that a connecting node currently never sets fRelayTxes... and it seems we have not a single test for that
267 2016-05-26T16:43:31  <sipa> sdaftuar: the p2p tests only connect a testnode to a real node, and not the other way around
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269 2016-05-26T16:47:43  <GitHub39> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #8102: Bugfix: use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode in version send (master...oopsrelay) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8102
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271 2016-05-26T16:49:55  <sipa> sdaftuar: is that possible, or am i missing an extra condition that makes this harder to test?
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286 2016-05-26T17:21:09  <sdaftuar> sipa: you're right that in the testing framework, testnodes connect out to real nodes and not the other way around.
287 2016-05-26T17:21:14  <sdaftuar> i'm taking a look at 8102
288 2016-05-26T17:22:39  <btcdrak> sdaftuar: is the list of cfpf related pulls #7600, #7960 and #7292? am i missing any?
289 2016-05-26T17:23:35  <sdaftuar> btcdrak: just #7600 and #7598.  7598 is a refactor of CreateNewBlock; 7600 builds off it
290 2016-05-26T17:27:33  <sdaftuar> sipa: i'm baffled that this breakage wasn't caught in our existing RPC tests.  surely anywhere we call sync_mempools() we would have seen a test failure?
291 2016-05-26T17:29:49  <sipa> sdaftuar: perhaps there are more requirements before this triggers
292 2016-05-26T17:30:37  <sipa> i saw this bug when syncing over thr internet... perhaps the rpc tests run fast enough
293 2016-05-26T17:30:50  <sipa> it is related to responses to version messages
294 2016-05-26T17:31:57  <wumpus> I'm not going to be able to attend the meeting today probably
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296 2016-05-26T17:33:28  <sipa> wumpus: ok
297 2016-05-26T17:35:08  *** Cory has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
298 2016-05-26T17:37:42  <sdaftuar> sipa: aha, we do have a travis issue.
299 2016-05-26T17:38:17  <sdaftuar> check this out: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/129694378
300 2016-05-26T17:38:44  <sdaftuar> looks like the tests hung, and then at some much later point the instance shut down(!)
301 2016-05-26T17:38:47  <sdaftuar> and no failure was reported
302 2016-05-26T17:40:04  <sipa> ugh
303 2016-05-26T17:41:09  <sdaftuar> i've been meaning to fix up the sync_() functions in util.py to be more robust for a while now.  we can do that at the least.
304 2016-05-26T17:41:27  <sdaftuar> separately we should also figure out what's going on with travis here
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306 2016-05-26T17:44:12  <btcdrak> sipa: could you please restart the two error jobs on https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/builds/133144138
307 2016-05-26T17:45:01  <sipa> will do when i get home in 15 min
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311 2016-05-26T18:03:06  <sipa> btcdrak: won't work, master is broken
312 2016-05-26T18:03:23  <btcdrak> oh
313 2016-05-26T18:03:28  <sipa> merging 8102 now
314 2016-05-26T18:03:31  <sdaftuar> sipa:
315 2016-05-26T18:03:39  <sdaftuar> 8102, you default fRelayTxes to false in mininode
316 2016-05-26T18:03:41  <sdaftuar> shouldn't that be true?
317 2016-05-26T18:03:52  <sipa> sdaftuar: good point!
318 2016-05-26T18:03:55  <sdaftuar> otherwise p2p tests that test receiving tx inv's would break
319 2016-05-26T18:04:00  <sdaftuar> we might not have any though (yet)
320 2016-05-26T18:04:00  <sipa> let me merge that without the mininode changes
321 2016-05-26T18:04:04  <sdaftuar> ok sounds good
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325 2016-05-26T18:15:36  <GitHub132> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c028c7b7557d...425278d17bd0
326 2016-05-26T18:15:36  <GitHub132> bitcoin/master 52b02ec Pieter Wuille: Use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode one
327 2016-05-26T18:15:37  <GitHub132> bitcoin/master 425278d Pieter Wuille: Merge #8102: Bugfix: use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode in version send...
328 2016-05-26T18:15:45  <GitHub160> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #8102: Bugfix: use global ::fRelayTxes instead of CNode in version send (master...oopsrelay) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8102
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340 2016-05-26T18:41:07  <GitHub124> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #8104: Tests: add timeout to sync_blocks() and sync_mempools() (master...improve-rpc-sync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8104
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348 2016-05-26T19:00:28  <sipa> meetink?
349 2016-05-26T19:02:10  <jonasschnelli> Yes.
350 2016-05-26T19:03:04  <CodeShark> let's do it
351 2016-05-26T19:03:12  <sipa> waiting for some more people
352 2016-05-26T19:03:23  * btcdrak raises hand
353 2016-05-26T19:03:25  <cfields_> here
354 2016-05-26T19:04:48  <paveljanik> here
355 2016-05-26T19:05:12  <cfields_> sipa: interestingly: on the net refactor branch I'm rebasing, it magically quit working after rebasing to (this morning's) master. after nabbing your fix, all is good now
356 2016-05-26T19:05:34  <sdaftuar> here
357 2016-05-26T19:05:45  <sipa> kanzure, sdaftuar, luke-jr, morcos, jl2012, gmaxwell, nickler, instagibbs, jtimon, petertodd: ping
358 2016-05-26T19:05:49  <sipa> !beginmeeting
359 2016-05-26T19:05:50  <gribble> Error: "beginmeeting" is not a valid command.
360 2016-05-26T19:05:53  <sipa> !meetingbegin
361 2016-05-26T19:05:53  <gribble> Error: "meetingbegin" is not a valid command.
362 2016-05-26T19:05:56  <sipa> !meetingstart
363 2016-05-26T19:05:56  <gribble> Error: "meetingstart" is not a valid command.
364 2016-05-26T19:05:57  <sdaftuar> startmeeting i think?
365 2016-05-26T19:06:00  <btcdrak> # startmeeting
366 2016-05-26T19:06:00  <sipa> !startmeeting
367 2016-05-26T19:06:01  <gribble> Error: "startmeeting" is not a valid command.
368 2016-05-26T19:06:03  <btcdrak> without the space
369 2016-05-26T19:06:07  <sipa> #startmeeting
370 2016-05-26T19:06:07  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu May 26 19:06:07 2016 UTC.  The chair is sipa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
371 2016-05-26T19:06:07  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
372 2016-05-26T19:06:11  <sipa> yay
373 2016-05-26T19:06:13  <sipa> topics?
374 2016-05-26T19:06:16  <kanzure> zurich transcript coming soon
375 2016-05-26T19:06:17  <btcdrak> sipa was wardialing
376 2016-05-26T19:06:23  *** ghounds has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
377 2016-05-26T19:06:32  <btcdrak> kanzure: I can push it now if you like
378 2016-05-26T19:06:35  <kanzure> we can copy-paste topics from zurich for follow-up
379 2016-05-26T19:06:40  <kanzure> btcdrak: sure let's do that
380 2016-05-26T19:07:12  <sipa> i have a topic: segwit vs netrefactor
381 2016-05-26T19:07:27  <kanzure> i believe the conclusion from zurich was that sipa promised everyone tree sigs and poly sigs within 4 days
382 2016-05-26T19:07:40  <btcdrak> kanzure: zurich meeting notes https://bitcoincore.org/logs/2016-05-zurich-meeting-notes.txt
383 2016-05-26T19:08:02  <kanzure> ouch no anchor links. well, okay.
384 2016-05-26T19:08:31  <kanzure> btw i heard from someone that they were surprised that libconsensus refactoring was considered lower priority than segwit
385 2016-05-26T19:08:37  <kanzure> just some interesting feedback.
386 2016-05-26T19:08:42  <btcdrak> kanzure: could be arranged.
387 2016-05-26T19:08:51  <btcdrak> sipa: ack
388 2016-05-26T19:09:16  <cfields_> sipa: sure. Though i suspect the (my, anyway) answer will be "segwit comes first, hands-down"
389 2016-05-26T19:09:22  <sipa> cfields_: ok, settled :)
390 2016-05-26T19:09:44  <sipa> kanzure: good feedback... i think it's mostly that segwit has much more buy-in as a roadmap (but i'm biased here)
391 2016-05-26T19:09:45  <btcdrak> was that even a question. segwit first.
392 2016-05-26T19:10:15  <cfields_> sipa: for sure. I'm working on it in parallel, but I have no desire to slow segwit down for it in any way
393 2016-05-26T19:10:21  <kanzure> right, right. it's more of a long-term note--- but eventually we will have to bite the bullet and absorb the pain of the refactor impacting everyone's branches.
394 2016-05-26T19:10:21  <CodeShark> libconsensus is strategically at least as important as segwit - but the coordination issues required are considerable
395 2016-05-26T19:10:32  <wumpus> what do segwit and net refactor compete on?
396 2016-05-26T19:10:37  <sipa> wumpus: code :)
397 2016-05-26T19:10:56  <wumpus> which parts? does net refactor give you significantly more trouble rebasing?
398 2016-05-26T19:10:59  <CodeShark> also, libconsensus isn't as glitsy :)
399 2016-05-26T19:11:01  <sipa> probably not
400 2016-05-26T19:11:11  <kanzure> what is the status of net refactor things?
401 2016-05-26T19:11:28  <btcdrak> where does compact blocks fit in?
402 2016-05-26T19:11:30  <sipa> libconsensus refactoring worked well in the 0.10 window, because it seemed there was a clear goal (getting script exposed) and a clear way to do it... further refactors seem to be more one-person shows (not that i blame those people, but if we want them to happen, i think we'll need to agree on a plan beforehand)
403 2016-05-26T19:11:41  <wumpus> well I can understand how libconsensus conflicts with segwit
404 2016-05-26T19:11:57  <kanzure> wasn't aware of previous concerns about libconsensus plan synchronization, good to know
405 2016-05-26T19:12:01  <sipa> libconsensus conflicts with everything :)
406 2016-05-26T19:12:18  <wumpus> there's also some network changes for segwit, but they're at a message level
407 2016-05-26T19:12:29  <wumpus> whereas cfields' network refactor is at a lower level
408 2016-05-26T19:12:40  <sipa> yeah, network refactor probably hurts compact blocks more than it hurts segwit
409 2016-05-26T19:12:40  <cfields_> kanzure: see #8085. I addressed wumpus's notes from Zurich, but that made it rough to read. I'm working on another version of the same thing with a clean history, done by tomorrow for sure
410 2016-05-26T19:12:47  <CodeShark> as much as it pains me to sacrifice on architecture, I think holding up segwit right now is much more costly in terms of the public's goodwill
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413 2016-05-26T19:13:31  <jcorgan> +1
414 2016-05-26T19:13:39  <wumpus> I agree progress in the protocol is more important, I think segwit even affects the proposed libconsensus API
415 2016-05-26T19:13:52  <sipa> worse, it affects the current libconsensus API :)
416 2016-05-26T19:14:21  <sipa> ok, other topics?
417 2016-05-26T19:14:37  <sipa> i have a few more
418 2016-05-26T19:14:55  <sipa> CPFP will also need to go in at some point, and also conflicts with many in-flight things
419 2016-05-26T19:15:06  <sipa> and a whole range of relay improvement
420 2016-05-26T19:15:08  <wumpus> libconsensus feels more like some checkbox people want checked than something that will actually have a lot of users but feel free to prove me wrong
421 2016-05-26T19:15:29  <sdaftuar> if we think segwit will be backported to 0.12, then probably CPFP should wait until afterward?
422 2016-05-26T19:15:35  <wumpus> it should be done but unless someone has a clear example of an application using it and contributes to it it has not much priority
423 2016-05-26T19:15:41  <sipa> when i talk about libconsensus i mean "abstracting out consensus logic"... not so much an actual API exposure
424 2016-05-26T19:15:42  <sdaftuar> to avoid dealing with the CNB refactor in 0.12
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426 2016-05-26T19:16:35  <wumpus> sipa: that's what I mean right, I'm not sure other people talkinga bout it mean the same thing
427 2016-05-26T19:16:50  <wumpus> at some point it becomes just a buzzword... :)
428 2016-05-26T19:16:51  <sipa> maybe i should formulate the question this way: segwit, compact blocks, CPFP... all for 0.13?
429 2016-05-26T19:16:59  <wumpus> that's a bit much
430 2016-05-26T19:17:18  <wumpus> for just before the feature freeze
431 2016-05-26T19:17:39  *** fengling has quit IRC
432 2016-05-26T19:17:42  <sdaftuar> sipa: yes!
433 2016-05-26T19:17:50  <wumpus> (2016-06-16)
434 2016-05-26T19:18:13  <sipa> i would very much like to have at least compact blocks in before segwit, to alleviate the extra relay latency
435 2016-05-26T19:18:21  <wumpus> I don't think we should make a habit of merging such big things just before a release
436 2016-05-26T19:18:48  <sdaftuar> segwit is clearly the heaviest lift here to review...  i think the otherw two things can be knocked out very quickly
437 2016-05-26T19:18:55  <wumpus> segwit is obvious
438 2016-05-26T19:19:07  <sdaftuar> but that's the thing where it's not clear to me if it'll be sufficiently reviewed by 6/16
439 2016-05-26T19:19:17  <wumpus> yes that'st he thing what counts
440 2016-05-26T19:19:46  <btcdrak> compact blocks would be good in 0.13
441 2016-05-26T19:19:57  <wumpus> segwit should be merged soon so that we can do 0.12.1 before 0.13
442 2016-05-26T19:20:03  <CodeShark> on that topic...
443 2016-05-26T19:20:30  <sipa> we can merge segwit with no softfork defined for it on mainnet
444 2016-05-26T19:20:51  <wumpus> we've already moved the release for 0.13 with a month so I'd really like to not move it again
445 2016-05-26T19:20:53  <sdaftuar> sipa: interesting!  i hadn't considered that
446 2016-05-26T19:20:57  <CodeShark> sipa: indeed!
447 2016-05-26T19:21:14  <CodeShark> and even once we do add the segwit softfork we can disable mining on it until release
448 2016-05-26T19:21:15  <sipa> #idea merge segwit without defined softfork
449 2016-05-26T19:21:35  <cfields_> hmm
450 2016-05-26T19:22:12  <wumpus> sure
451 2016-05-26T19:22:22  <sdaftuar> i guess the thing to worry about is if we have testing gaps, things might break without anyone noticing?
452 2016-05-26T19:22:23  <wumpus> just to have the code in?
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454 2016-05-26T19:22:30  <luke-jr> need vb gbt before segwit tho..? maybe not if left undefined, unsure
455 2016-05-26T19:22:37  <sipa> luke-jr: yup
456 2016-05-26T19:22:42  <sipa> luke-jr: will look at that
457 2016-05-26T19:23:13  <wumpus> sdaftuar: well the tests need to cover it
458 2016-05-26T19:23:30  <wumpus> if there's a testing gap it should not be merged in any case
459 2016-05-26T19:23:31  <sipa> all the segwit tests use regtest
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461 2016-05-26T19:23:37  <wumpus> right
462 2016-05-26T19:23:52  <wumpus> for that it doesn't matter whether a softfork is defined on mainnet
463 2016-05-26T19:24:01  <sipa> indeed
464 2016-05-26T19:24:11  <sipa> and for script/tx tests, the softfork is not relevant
465 2016-05-26T19:24:16  <luke-jr> sipa: should I look into merging vbgbt w segwit?
466 2016-05-26T19:24:19  <achow101> what benefit would there be to not define the softfork when mergin segwit
467 2016-05-26T19:24:48  <sipa> achow101: segwit conflicts with a lot of code, having it in would simplify further development on the branch
468 2016-05-26T19:24:51  <btcdrak> sipa: we should merge without mainnet, because it will allow people to test on testnet now (it's already been activated in testnet).
469 2016-05-26T19:24:53  <wumpus> achow101: to have the code in, so that development happens on top
470 2016-05-26T19:25:08  <wumpus> achow101: and so that people acn use it on the regtest/testnet network
471 2016-05-26T19:25:12  <sipa> btcdrak: another good reason, indeed
472 2016-05-26T19:25:27  <wumpus> btw: should we keep the segnet?
473 2016-05-26T19:25:35  <sipa> no, i want to drop it
474 2016-05-26T19:25:38  <btcdrak> wumpus: no segnet should go
475 2016-05-26T19:25:42  <sipa> unless there is a good reason to keep it
476 2016-05-26T19:25:43  <wumpus> ok
477 2016-05-26T19:25:54  <wumpus> (no opinion either way just wondering whether that's supposed to end up in master)
478 2016-05-26T19:26:12  <btcdrak> sipa: there's no need to drop it in merge to master right away imo, but certainly before we add parameters to mainnet.
479 2016-05-26T19:26:14  <wumpus> yes as it has been triggered on testnet
480 2016-05-26T19:26:39  <sipa> i will prioritize the testnet dns seed filtering, vb/gbt changes, and doing another batch
481 2016-05-26T19:26:49  <kanzure> merging segwit without activation might lessen the pressure on reviewers
482 2016-05-26T19:26:54  <kanzure> which might be a negative side effect
483 2016-05-26T19:26:59  <sdaftuar> kanzure: agree
484 2016-05-26T19:27:32  <wumpus> anyhow if the segnet network helps testing I don't have problems with temporarily having it in master, as long as it is clearly communicated that people shouldn't rely on it
485 2016-05-26T19:27:54  <sipa> i wasn't planning on including it in master
486 2016-05-26T19:28:09  <wumpus> well playing psychological meta-tricks on reviewers doesn't play much of a role imo, we should do whatever is practical
487 2016-05-26T19:28:29  *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC
488 2016-05-26T19:28:42  <wumpus> if merging segwit helps make progress on other fronts so that 0.13 can be a better release
489 2016-05-26T19:28:44  <wumpus> we should do that
490 2016-05-26T19:29:10  <wumpus> also having it merged in master usually means it gets more testing and review, not less
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492 2016-05-26T19:29:12  <sipa> i'll do one more batch, and if there are some ACKs then, i'll squash
493 2016-05-26T19:29:30  <kanzure> so it would be active in testnet segnet and regtest when merged, but not mainnet, and letting others maintain segwit for other 0.13 changes?
494 2016-05-26T19:29:49  <sipa> kanzure: don't understand the last part
495 2016-05-26T19:30:04  <sipa> if there are changes necessary to the code post-merge but pre-release, they can just go in master
496 2016-05-26T19:30:04  <kanzure> the ideal of merging soon is to let others maintain segwit for possibly conflicting 0.13 changes?
497 2016-05-26T19:30:20  <wumpus> there's not *that* much time left for 0.13, it's good to decide now what we still want to have in and focus on that
498 2016-05-26T19:30:31  <sipa> kanzure: to let others rebase their own patches on top
499 2016-05-26T19:30:45  <wumpus> well not 'maintain segwit' but work on top, yes
500 2016-05-26T19:30:57  <btcdrak> kanzure: the only difference is not having activation params on mainnet. it would really help by not holding up other work.
501 2016-05-26T19:31:23  <sdaftuar> sipa: would you still plan to backport to 0.12?
502 2016-05-26T19:31:30  <sipa> sdaftuar: yes, but after merge in master
503 2016-05-26T19:31:40  <sipa> (but before defining activation)
504 2016-05-26T19:31:42  <sdaftuar> ok
505 2016-05-26T19:32:05  <sipa> ok, other topics?
506 2016-05-26T19:32:10  <gmaxwell> The non-merged status of segwit has kinda been holding up other work, unfortunately.
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508 2016-05-26T19:32:46  <kanzure> maybe bip151 things?
509 2016-05-26T19:33:11  <sipa> status bip151: waiting for implementation
510 2016-05-26T19:33:13  <sipa> i'd say :)
511 2016-05-26T19:33:19  <instagibbs> sdaftuar, is that list of testing gaps public somewhere?
512 2016-05-26T19:33:22  <kanzure> ok
513 2016-05-26T19:33:24  <instagibbs> (sorry, backtracking)
514 2016-05-26T19:33:39  <kanzure> https://gist.github.com/sdaftuar/0469a2583f33989cf8196d2f26d99114
515 2016-05-26T19:33:48  <sdaftuar> instagibbs: yes, now :)
516 2016-05-26T19:34:07  <luke-jr> lol
517 2016-05-26T19:34:15  <instagibbs> not really my meaning, but ok ;P
518 2016-05-26T19:34:40  <petertodd> re: bip151, I mentioned it today at the conf I was at to some cryptographers, and their response to it not being an off the shelf standard was horror :) might be a pr issue
519 2016-05-26T19:35:02  <sipa> petertodd: it's openssh's chacha20-poly1305 exactly
520 2016-05-26T19:35:07  <kanzure> were they horrified about the current implementation at all
521 2016-05-26T19:35:38  <petertodd> sipa: good, we should make that 110% clear then
522 2016-05-26T19:35:39  <sipa> petertodd: maybe that needs to be made more clear
523 2016-05-26T19:35:48  <gmaxwell> it's pretty clear in the BIP now, I thought.
524 2016-05-26T19:35:57  <gmaxwell> maybe it could be moved up to the top.
525 2016-05-26T19:36:16  <petertodd> gmaxwell: yeah, move it to the top - I just looked at it and didn't see that
526 2016-05-26T19:36:28  *** frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
527 2016-05-26T19:36:45  <sipa> #action jonasschnelli make it more clean that bip151 uses openssh's chacha20-poly1305 standard
528 2016-05-26T19:36:46  <btcdrak> ok make that an action point for the logs
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530 2016-05-26T19:36:56  <sipa> jinx
531 2016-05-26T19:37:27  <petertodd> make it clear that the standard *describes* a subset of openssh's standard, and that bitcoin's use of it is identical and can reuse the existing code
532 2016-05-26T19:37:39  <kanzure> pus or minus licensing issues?
533 2016-05-26T19:37:43  <kanzure> *plus
534 2016-05-26T19:38:16  <jonasschnelli> Ack. Will do
535 2016-05-26T19:38:26  <petertodd> kanzure: https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/blob/05855bf2ce7d5cd0a6db18bc0b4214ed5ef7516d/LICENCE <- looks like BSD at least, no GPL code
536 2016-05-26T19:38:47  <sipa> the actual cipher is public domain code
537 2016-05-26T19:38:51  <sipa> the glue into openssh is BSD
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540 2016-05-26T19:41:18  <kanzure> petertodd: thanks for checking
541 2016-05-26T19:42:09  <sipa> anything else?
542 2016-05-26T19:42:18  <sipa> (mental note: type #topic next time)
543 2016-05-26T19:42:41  <btcdrak> no just #topic
544 2016-05-26T19:42:46  <kanzure> child-pays-for-parent?
545 2016-05-26T19:43:07  <kanzure> and wasn't there something activating soon that we were looking at
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547 2016-05-26T19:43:28  <sdaftuar> happy to talk about CPFP, are there any questions?
548 2016-05-26T19:43:31  *** moli has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
549 2016-05-26T19:43:33  <sipa> #topic child pay for parent
550 2016-05-26T19:44:05  <sipa> i think the blocker is just the refactor for CNB
551 2016-05-26T19:44:15  <sipa> which will conflict with segwit
552 2016-05-26T19:44:40  <sdaftuar> right
553 2016-05-26T19:45:00  <luke-jr> so maybe target 0.14
554 2016-05-26T19:45:04  <luke-jr> ?
555 2016-05-26T19:45:23  <sipa> at the latest, i'd say
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557 2016-05-26T19:45:30  <kanzure> oh i forgot about the testing infrastructure stuff for sdaftuar
558 2016-05-26T19:45:35  <kanzure> sdaftuar: something i mentioned in person a few days ago, https://www.terraform.io/
559 2016-05-26T19:45:37  <sipa> but yes, it may miss 0.13
560 2016-05-26T19:45:37  <sdaftuar> i will be sad if it is necessary to push it back that far
561 2016-05-26T19:45:45  <sipa> me too
562 2016-05-26T19:46:25  <sdaftuar> has anyone tried to test or review #7600?
563 2016-05-26T19:47:13  <sipa> i started looking at it, but not in detail
564 2016-05-26T19:47:53  <sdaftuar> alright, well no point in talking about blockers until it's been reviewed
565 2016-05-26T19:48:04  <gmaxwell> I beleive I applied it to a node and started it. (but then switched out of it to test something else) It's on my list.
566 2016-05-26T19:50:11  <sipa> other topics?
567 2016-05-26T19:50:34  <CodeShark> sipa: your suggestion seems superior to 8101 :p
568 2016-05-26T19:50:38  <CodeShark> at least for now
569 2016-05-26T19:50:50  <CodeShark> I was going to bring that up...but perhaps we can defer that discussion
570 2016-05-26T19:50:50  <luke-jr> sdaftuar: I'll be sad too: it's been waiting since like 0.4 :p
571 2016-05-26T19:51:38  <sipa> luke-jr: well, feel free to help review/test 7600 already
572 2016-05-26T19:51:46  <gmaxwell> I will be sad to not get CPFP in soon if that happens, especially considering all the work that it's taken to get it this far.
573 2016-05-26T19:52:10  <sipa> so i would encourage people to review
574 2016-05-26T19:52:53  <sipa> #endmeeting
575 2016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu May 26 19:52:53 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
576 2016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2016/bitcoin-core-dev.2016-05-26-19.06.html
577 2016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2016/bitcoin-core-dev.2016-05-26-19.06.txt
578 2016-05-26T19:52:53  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2016/bitcoin-core-dev.2016-05-26-19.06.log.html
579 2016-05-26T19:52:59  <gmaxwell> [OT] There appears to be an emergent effort to flood reddit with recursive posts about BIP 151: http://imgur.com/xId5scH
580 2016-05-26T19:53:13  <luke-jr> bbiab
581 2016-05-26T19:53:47  <petertodd> gmaxwell: you guys suck at mixnets
582 2016-05-26T19:54:06  <gmaxwell> adam's post is the best so far https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4l74p5/jameson_lopp_lukejr_gregory_maxwell_eragmus/
583 2016-05-26T19:54:36  <btcdrak> LMAO
584 2016-05-26T19:57:01  <sipa> i for one welcome the new recursively compressing overlords
585 2016-05-26T19:57:18  <sipa> s/compressing/encrypting/
586 2016-05-26T19:58:27  <petertodd> I for one welcome sipa's welcoming nature
587 2016-05-26T19:58:43  <btcdrak> +1
588 2016-05-26T19:59:38  <petertodd> C-C-C-C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker!
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590 2016-05-26T20:12:13  <gmaxwell> sipa: why didn't warnings save us from the global aliasing bug you fixed today?
591 2016-05-26T20:14:06  <sipa> gmaxwell: #8105
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593 2016-05-26T20:14:26  <sipa> and travis didn't warn because of #8103
594 2016-05-26T20:15:28  <gmaxwell> LOL
595 2016-05-26T20:16:15  <sipa> "oh, machine shutdown
596 2016-05-26T20:16:26  <sipa> "oh, machine shutdown... ALL TESTS PASS"
597 2016-05-26T20:16:30  <gmaxwell> Perhaps we need to make sure all commiters have access to super fast machines, and make running the full tests part of the merge script?
598 2016-05-26T20:16:39  <gmaxwell> sipa: "No failures detected."
599 2016-05-26T20:16:52  <cfields_> hmm, we've seen that before. thought it was fixed on their end.
600 2016-05-26T20:16:53  <cfields_> checking
601 2016-05-26T20:17:04  <sipa> fair enough, that's a subtle but relevant distinction
602 2016-05-26T20:17:51  <cfields_> one thing we could do is add the rpc-tests to 'make check'
603 2016-05-26T20:18:35  <cfields_> especially once the java blocktester is replaced in python, that'll make it so that travis would basically just be running 'make check', same as what everyone could do manually
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605 2016-05-26T20:19:06  <sipa> cfields_: ack
606 2016-05-26T20:19:24  <cfields_> sdaftuar: how's that replacement coming, btw?
607 2016-05-26T20:19:31  <sipa> together with parallel checking, it's even not that painful anymore
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