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 29 2016-05-31T02:19:00  <kanzure> i do not feel entirely comfortable with his "throw tests away" comment
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 43 2016-05-31T03:56:31  <gmaxwell> kanzure: I thought the same, but on reflection, I dunno, any generic advice is ... generic.  I've certantly seen tests that should be thrown away. Ones that basically could never catch an error but still manage to produce false positives. Those should probably be thrown away.
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 60 2016-05-31T06:57:51  <jonasschnelli> cfields_, wumpus: re: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8120, "make deploy" is unused during gitian? right?
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 68 2016-05-31T08:27:54  <sipa> gmaxwell: i think the advice to remove never-failing tests specifically is not wanted for consensus logic
 69 2016-05-31T08:28:16  <sipa> gmaxwell: though i guess that's a case of code whose behaviour is "fully specified"
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 76 2016-05-31T10:23:02  <kanzure> "delete tests" is advice that probably works on teams where people are encouraged to write lots of useless tests. i could imagine the weeds growing pretty fast :).
 77 2016-05-31T10:39:29  <sipa> well we do suffer from tests that just test exact implementation equivalence rather than correctness
 78 2016-05-31T10:39:49  <sipa> like any change to the coin selection code will likely break the uniy tests
 79 2016-05-31T10:39:57  <sipa> which discourages improving them
 80 2016-05-31T10:40:16  <sipa> rather than helping making sure that changes don't break them
 81 2016-05-31T10:48:10  <kanzure> yes i am not sure how to correctly "test" stochastic approximation. "is it really approximating?" "is it really stochastic?" hehe
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 95 2016-05-31T12:37:46  <wumpus> I wouldn't agree with deleting tests
 96 2016-05-31T12:38:53  <wumpus> I'd still like to add more unit tests and more coverage instead of going on some wacky tangent
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 98 2016-05-31T12:41:00  <wumpus> I don't think we have the mentioned problem at all, that we're trusting unit tests too much
 99 2016-05-31T12:41:12  <wumpus> code review is most important
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101 2016-05-31T12:43:19  <wumpus> but removing tests sound like removing safety features from a car because it makes people more careful, yea, nice in theory, in practice it is harmful to have more crippled people even if they 'learned a lesson'
102 2016-05-31T12:44:12  <sipa> i agree, but that post does contain some interesting view point
103 2016-05-31T12:44:14  <wumpus> similarly, having trivial things fail more often in production is not even if it makes developers (who?) learn a lesson
104 2016-05-31T12:44:18  <wumpus> I really don't like it
105 2016-05-31T12:44:25  <btcdrak> I think it's ridiculous. Unit tests are invaluable, they catch regressions, make refactoring easier to do etc.
106 2016-05-31T12:44:34  <wumpus> yes it's pretty ridiculous imo
107 2016-05-31T12:45:12  <btcdrak> if this is where "professional" software development is going, god save us.
108 2016-05-31T12:46:13  <sipa> well if people are refactoring their software so that higher line coverage is obtained, with tests that will never fail... there is a problem
109 2016-05-31T12:46:17  <wumpus> I doubt it is. And yes some companies overdo testing, having test suites that run for 20 hours every time a change is made. For those I guess it makes sense to be more selective.
110 2016-05-31T12:46:22  <sipa> i don't think we have that problem
111 2016-05-31T12:46:27  <sipa> rather the opposite
112 2016-05-31T12:47:10  <sipa> however, i do think we have a number of tests that are focussed on testing exact behaviour, of which nobody still knows why that test was added
113 2016-05-31T12:47:25  <wumpus> yes, there are plenty of specific tests that could be improved
114 2016-05-31T12:47:28  <wumpus> no argument there
115 2016-05-31T12:47:35  <btcdrak> and properly commented.
116 2016-05-31T12:47:50  <sipa> so they break when code is changed, with nobody knowing whether the broken test was testing some required property of the system, or just testing the exact behaviour the old code had
117 2016-05-31T12:48:13  <wumpus> testing is absolutely a skill in itself and it doesn't overlap 100% with developing, but saying things like 'business people should make tests not developers'... yeah right
118 2016-05-31T12:48:49  <sipa> well i guess we're kinda doing that for wallet rpc tests
119 2016-05-31T12:49:15  <sipa> not that they're written by business people, but they do test application behaviour, not individual functioms
120 2016-05-31T12:49:28  <wumpus> both levels make sense to test
121 2016-05-31T12:49:33  <sipa> of course
122 2016-05-31T12:50:12  <wumpus> but yes for the wallet we primarily test application-level behavior also because most functions aren't really testable units
123 2016-05-31T12:50:34  <sipa> i don't think anyone is actually suggesting removing tests (?), but i think a mindset of testing for correctness rather than exact replication makes sense
124 2016-05-31T12:50:54  <wumpus> lots of behavior that depends on the state of the wallet, which depends on an entire history of actions, there's not really much unit testing that can be done in that case
125 2016-05-31T12:50:58  <sipa> or at least separating the two
126 2016-05-31T12:54:40  <wumpus> indeed
127 2016-05-31T12:58:40  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, the question is ultimately "what is a unit?"
128 2016-05-31T12:58:56  <wumpus> phantomcircuit: it is, tho let's not get philosophical :)
129 2016-05-31T12:59:49  <sipa> phantomcircuit: i think we should use Planck units
130 2016-05-31T13:00:00  <wumpus> +1
131 2016-05-31T13:00:23  <phantomcircuit> sipa, :P
132 2016-05-31T13:00:31  <phantomcircuit> it's in the name
133 2016-05-31T13:00:34  <phantomcircuit> unit tests
134 2016-05-31T13:01:34  <wumpus> though not all Planck units describe the minimum physical quantities, e.g. plack mass is pretty large (in the micrograms)
135 2016-05-31T13:02:58  <wumpus> I guess that describes some of our unit tests that are actually RPC tests in disguise...
136 2016-05-31T13:03:32  <sipa> hah
137 2016-05-31T13:05:22  <sipa> planck pressure: 4.63 * 10^113 Pa
138 2016-05-31T13:06:10  <wumpus> wow
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140 2016-05-31T13:10:28  <GitHub165> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/950be19727a5...0026e0ef3472
141 2016-05-31T13:10:29  <GitHub165> bitcoin/master 63ff57d Gregory Maxwell: Avoid integer division in the benchmark inner-most loop....
142 2016-05-31T13:10:29  <GitHub165> bitcoin/master 0026e0e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8115: Avoid integer division in the benchmark inner-most loop....
143 2016-05-31T13:10:41  <GitHub39> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8115: Avoid integer division in the benchmark inner-most loop. (master...better_bench) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8115
144 2016-05-31T13:17:09  <GitHub24> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8097: RFC: rpc: Remove dns argument for getaddednodeinfo (master...remove-getaddednodeinfo-dns) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8097
145 2016-05-31T13:19:24  <GitHub183> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0026e0ef3472...e7e25ea5128b
146 2016-05-31T13:19:24  <GitHub183> bitcoin/master 1a8c4d5 fanquake: [Doc] Add benchmarking notes
147 2016-05-31T13:19:25  <GitHub183> bitcoin/master e7e25ea Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8110: [Doc] Add benchmarking notes...
148 2016-05-31T13:19:32  <GitHub35> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8112: Include signal.h for sig_atomic_t in WIN32 (master...winsigatomic) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8112
149 2016-05-31T13:19:34  <GitHub145> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8110: [Doc] Add benchmarking notes (master...mention_bench) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8110
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151 2016-05-31T13:27:35  <GitHub198> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7e25ea5128b...a2df11524938
152 2016-05-31T13:27:35  <GitHub198> bitcoin/master b682960 Chris Stewart: Adding P2SH(p2pkh) script test case...
153 2016-05-31T13:27:36  <GitHub198> bitcoin/master a2df115 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8090: Adding P2SH(p2pkh) script test case...
154 2016-05-31T13:27:45  <GitHub128> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8090: Adding P2SH(p2pkh) script test case (master...add_p2sh_p2pkh_script_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8090
155 2016-05-31T13:29:10  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I do think we use 'make deploy' in gitian builds for MacOSX
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157 2016-05-31T13:29:25  <wumpus> I know this because I broke it at some point and gitian broke too :)
158 2016-05-31T13:29:43  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: hmm.. okay. Maybe it uses a different script when crosscompiling over linux.
159 2016-05-31T13:30:01  * jonasschnelli needs to look closer at this issue
160 2016-05-31T13:31:31  <wumpus> so, as gitian OSX is not broken (AFAIK) it's possibly something with fanquake's local setup
161 2016-05-31T13:32:14  <wumpus> not sure where background.tiff is supposed to be though
162 2016-05-31T13:32:20  <wumpus> could this be an out-of-tree build issue?
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165 2016-05-31T13:39:21  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Some weeks ago I have also encountered that a local "make deploy" on MAC does no longer work.
166 2016-05-31T13:39:47  <jonasschnelli> IMO its because the make deploy calls the macdeployplus script locally (on Mac only).
167 2016-05-31T13:40:02  <jonasschnelli> And I guess when you are cross compiling on a linux host, it does something different
168 2016-05-31T13:40:34  <jonasschnelli> the background.tiff is a relict. It should have be gone after lukejs auto-renaming PR
169 2016-05-31T13:41:29  <sipa> maybe he needs a git clean?
170 2016-05-31T13:43:27  <wumpus> trying that would make sense
171 2016-05-31T13:45:10  <GitHub98> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7867: deleted restored sampler Configure.ac restored bits to all networks =(%master%masterCode[{rLi}]) (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7867
172 2016-05-31T13:47:54  <GitHub172> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a2df11524938...862fd24b40b4
173 2016-05-31T13:47:54  <GitHub172> bitcoin/master 7e908c7 Gregory Maxwell: Do not use mempool for GETDATA for tx accepted after the last mempool req....
174 2016-05-31T13:47:55  <GitHub172> bitcoin/master 862fd24 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8080: Do not use mempool for GETDATA for tx accepted after the last mempool req....
175 2016-05-31T13:48:04  <GitHub70> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8080: Do not use mempool for GETDATA for tx accepted after the last mempool req. (master...nonmempool_getdata) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8080
176 2016-05-31T13:51:06  <GitHub158> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8025: Increase DEFAULT_KEYPOOL_SIZE to 10000. (master...2016-05-08-wallet-defaults) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8025
177 2016-05-31T13:53:16  <GitHub85> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to 0.12: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c3aedca2df89...e7ec24e336dc
178 2016-05-31T13:53:17  <GitHub85> bitcoin/0.12 87129b2 Wladimir J. van der Laan: test: script_error checking in script_invalid tests...
179 2016-05-31T13:53:17  <GitHub85> bitcoin/0.12 e3a9ce9 Pieter Wuille: Refactor script tests...
180 2016-05-31T13:53:18  <GitHub85> bitcoin/0.12 e7ec24e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8001: [0.12.2] backport script_tests improvements...
181 2016-05-31T13:53:21  <GitHub172> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8001: [0.12.2] backport script_tests improvements (0.12...Mf1605-012testbp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8001
182 2016-05-31T13:53:26  <GitHub160> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7854: [0.12 backport] script_tests improvements from master and #7818 (0.12...refactorscriptests_12) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7854
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191 2016-05-31T14:59:38  <luke-jr> sipa: what are we doing on https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/365/files#diff-c0db26883ccab057aaa394db5e50e4b1R123 ?
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208 2016-05-31T17:47:56  <iniana> Is there something I can do, configuration-wise, to speed up initial synchronization? Right now it is painfully slow, and I cannot find the reason why. Around 1 or 2 blocks per second is processed and download peaks are at 15KB/s
209 2016-05-31T17:49:52  <gmaxwell> iniana: depends on what is bottlenecking you.  If disk IO is, then increasing dbcache will help a lot.
210 2016-05-31T17:50:16  <iniana> gmaxwell: Will try that. Thanks.
211 2016-05-31T17:50:39  <gmaxwell> to do that set -dbcache=<megabytes>  don't set it more than the amount of free ram you have, minus about 600mb or so.
212 2016-05-31T17:50:51  <gmaxwell> iniana: What sort of hardware are you on?
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214 2016-05-31T17:54:37  <iniana> gmaxwell: Pretty standard hardware. Core i7 (2yo), 16GB RAM. Blockchain stored on a slow HDD though, so I hope the dbcache will work
215 2016-05-31T17:55:03  <sipa> in that case, dbcache will help a lot
216 2016-05-31T17:55:07  <sipa> set it to 3000 or more
217 2016-05-31T17:55:31  <gmaxwell> yes, that will make it much faster. with 16GB ram you should be able to set it to 6000 or so and then the whole sync will basically happen in-memory, with just saving out chain to disk.
218 2016-05-31T17:57:15  * sipa belies this C++ type could use some typedefs:
219 2016-05-31T17:57:16  <sipa> std::deque<std::pair<int64_t, std::map<uint256, std::shared_ptr<const CTransaction>>::iterator>>
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221 2016-05-31T18:00:21  <iniana> started up again, trying with dbcache=4000, but synching stalls. log mentions reindexing every single block file. Is that necessary? Is there some way to turn it off?
222 2016-05-31T18:00:40  <sipa> did you start with -reindex?
223 2016-05-31T18:00:52  <paveljanik> sipa, it looks like Perl 8)
224 2016-05-31T18:01:07  <iniana> sipa: no
225 2016-05-31T18:01:44  <sipa> iniana: can you c/p some typical 3 line snippet from debug.log?
226 2016-05-31T18:01:48  <iniana> sipa: I copied the entire .bitcoin from another node I had though, if that matters.
227 2016-05-31T18:02:01  <sipa> a running one?
228 2016-05-31T18:02:46  <iniana> sipa: no, although maybe it didn't have a normal termination?
229 2016-05-31T18:02:53  <iniana> 2016-05-31 17:57:18 Reindexing block file blk00070.dat... 2016-05-31 17:57:21 Block Import: already had block 000000000000003d64d714747fbfb615e056f533386d162f0bf5e049a9b6e0b2 at height 247000 2016-05-31 17:57:22 Reindexing block file blk00071.dat... 2016-05-31 17:57:23 Block Import: already had block 000000000000004d945017c14b75a3a58a2aa6772cacbfcaf907b3bee6d7f344 at height 248000
230 2016-05-31T18:02:58  <gmaxwell> sipa: Why does dequeue gain the ctransaction shared_ptr iterator?
231 2016-05-31T18:03:20  <sipa> gmaxwell: because that's smaller and faster than the hash
232 2016-05-31T18:03:40  <sipa> the old code was stupid
233 2016-05-31T18:04:02  <sipa> it's not a shared_ptr iterator btw, but a mapRelay iterator
234 2016-05-31T18:04:09  <gmaxwell> sipa: isn't the iterator invalidated any time the map is updated?
235 2016-05-31T18:04:13  <sipa> gmaxwell: nope!
236 2016-05-31T18:04:20  <sipa> only when that specific item is deleted
237 2016-05-31T18:05:44  <gmaxwell> okay, I understand why then.
238 2016-05-31T18:06:03  <sipa> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/map/insert <- "No iterators or references are invalidated. "
239 2016-05-31T18:06:32  <sipa> i'll document that change in the commit message
240 2016-05-31T18:09:21  <sipa> gmaxwell: oops, no, can't do!
241 2016-05-31T18:09:38  <sipa> it can cause double deletions, as the expiration entries are not unique
242 2016-05-31T18:10:47  <gmaxwell> I guess it cares about mutations too?  I was thinking about adding a nodeid set to maprelay later to only answer queries for peers we actually inved to.
243 2016-05-31T18:11:34  <sipa> the value of map entries can be changed, no problems (without iterator invalidation)
244 2016-05-31T18:11:38  <sipa> keys can't ever change
245 2016-05-31T18:11:41  <sipa> i'll leave it be
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247 2016-05-31T18:13:37  <sipa> oh, no, it is unique
248 2016-05-31T18:14:05  <gmaxwell> I was digging through trying to figure out how it wasn't unique...
249 2016-05-31T18:14:22  <sipa> i'm confusing with askfor
250 2016-05-31T18:15:15  <gmaxwell> I would like to remove the expiration entry and reinsert it if the old expiration was 'too soon'... but that doesn't change the situation for the map with the shared pointers.
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252 2016-05-31T18:33:50  <sipa> gmaxwell: since #8080, if pto->timeLastMempoolReq == 0, we don't need to check the mempool at all, right?
253 2016-05-31T18:34:10  <gmaxwell> Right.
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257 2016-05-31T19:33:17  <phantomcircuit> iniana, it's probably a good idea to reindex if you copied ... but it shouldn't need to do so
258 2016-05-31T19:33:26  <phantomcircuit> are you sure you exited cleanly on the other node?
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262 2016-05-31T19:46:59  <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I would make a bet they copied the blocks directory without the chainstate.
263 2016-05-31T19:50:29  <sipa> that would not result in a 'reindexing' message
264 2016-05-31T19:51:05  * gmaxwell withdraws bet
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297 2016-05-31T22:51:38  <GitHub133> [bitcoin] theuni opened pull request #8128: Net: Turn net structures into dumb storage classes (master...split-resolve) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8128
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301 2016-05-31T22:57:23  <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i assume they had a node which they manually reindexed with a higher dbcache setting which wasn't cleanly shutdown
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304 2016-05-31T23:14:18  <GitHub56> [bitcoin] UdjinM6 opened pull request #8129: Fix RPC console auto completer (master...fixRPCAutoCompleter_bitcoin) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8129
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