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 292016-05-31T02:19:00  <kanzure> i do not feel entirely comfortable with his "throw tests away" comment
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 432016-05-31T03:56:31  <gmaxwell> kanzure: I thought the same, but on reflection, I dunno, any generic advice is ... generic.  I've certantly seen tests that should be thrown away. Ones that basically could never catch an error but still manage to produce false positives. Those should probably be thrown away.
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 602016-05-31T06:57:51  <jonasschnelli> cfields_, wumpus: re: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8120, "make deploy" is unused during gitian? right?
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 682016-05-31T08:27:54  <sipa> gmaxwell: i think the advice to remove never-failing tests specifically is not wanted for consensus logic
 692016-05-31T08:28:16  <sipa> gmaxwell: though i guess that's a case of code whose behaviour is "fully specified"
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 762016-05-31T10:23:02  <kanzure> "delete tests" is advice that probably works on teams where people are encouraged to write lots of useless tests. i could imagine the weeds growing pretty fast :).
 772016-05-31T10:39:29  <sipa> well we do suffer from tests that just test exact implementation equivalence rather than correctness
 782016-05-31T10:39:49  <sipa> like any change to the coin selection code will likely break the uniy tests
 792016-05-31T10:39:57  <sipa> which discourages improving them
 802016-05-31T10:40:16  <sipa> rather than helping making sure that changes don't break them
 812016-05-31T10:48:10  <kanzure> yes i am not sure how to correctly "test" stochastic approximation. "is it really approximating?" "is it really stochastic?" hehe
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 952016-05-31T12:37:46  <wumpus> I wouldn't agree with deleting tests
 962016-05-31T12:38:53  <wumpus> I'd still like to add more unit tests and more coverage instead of going on some wacky tangent
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 982016-05-31T12:41:00  <wumpus> I don't think we have the mentioned problem at all, that we're trusting unit tests too much
 992016-05-31T12:41:12  <wumpus> code review is most important
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1012016-05-31T12:43:19  <wumpus> but removing tests sound like removing safety features from a car because it makes people more careful, yea, nice in theory, in practice it is harmful to have more crippled people even if they 'learned a lesson'
1022016-05-31T12:44:12  <sipa> i agree, but that post does contain some interesting view point
1032016-05-31T12:44:14  <wumpus> similarly, having trivial things fail more often in production is not even if it makes developers (who?) learn a lesson
1042016-05-31T12:44:18  <wumpus> I really don't like it
1052016-05-31T12:44:25  <btcdrak> I think it's ridiculous. Unit tests are invaluable, they catch regressions, make refactoring easier to do etc.
1062016-05-31T12:44:34  <wumpus> yes it's pretty ridiculous imo
1072016-05-31T12:45:12  <btcdrak> if this is where "professional" software development is going, god save us.
1082016-05-31T12:46:13  <sipa> well if people are refactoring their software so that higher line coverage is obtained, with tests that will never fail... there is a problem
1092016-05-31T12:46:17  <wumpus> I doubt it is. And yes some companies overdo testing, having test suites that run for 20 hours every time a change is made. For those I guess it makes sense to be more selective.
1102016-05-31T12:46:22  <sipa> i don't think we have that problem
1112016-05-31T12:46:27  <sipa> rather the opposite
1122016-05-31T12:47:10  <sipa> however, i do think we have a number of tests that are focussed on testing exact behaviour, of which nobody still knows why that test was added
1132016-05-31T12:47:25  <wumpus> yes, there are plenty of specific tests that could be improved
1142016-05-31T12:47:28  <wumpus> no argument there
1152016-05-31T12:47:35  <btcdrak> and properly commented.
1162016-05-31T12:47:50  <sipa> so they break when code is changed, with nobody knowing whether the broken test was testing some required property of the system, or just testing the exact behaviour the old code had
1172016-05-31T12:48:13  <wumpus> testing is absolutely a skill in itself and it doesn't overlap 100% with developing, but saying things like 'business people should make tests not developers'... yeah right
1182016-05-31T12:48:49  <sipa> well i guess we're kinda doing that for wallet rpc tests
1192016-05-31T12:49:15  <sipa> not that they're written by business people, but they do test application behaviour, not individual functioms
1202016-05-31T12:49:28  <wumpus> both levels make sense to test
1212016-05-31T12:49:33  <sipa> of course
1222016-05-31T12:50:12  <wumpus> but yes for the wallet we primarily test application-level behavior also because most functions aren't really testable units
1232016-05-31T12:50:34  <sipa> i don't think anyone is actually suggesting removing tests (?), but i think a mindset of testing for correctness rather than exact replication makes sense
1242016-05-31T12:50:54  <wumpus> lots of behavior that depends on the state of the wallet, which depends on an entire history of actions, there's not really much unit testing that can be done in that case
1252016-05-31T12:50:58  <sipa> or at least separating the two
1262016-05-31T12:54:40  <wumpus> indeed
1272016-05-31T12:58:40  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, the question is ultimately "what is a unit?"
1282016-05-31T12:58:56  <wumpus> phantomcircuit: it is, tho let's not get philosophical :)
1292016-05-31T12:59:49  <sipa> phantomcircuit: i think we should use Planck units
1302016-05-31T13:00:00  <wumpus> +1
1312016-05-31T13:00:23  <phantomcircuit> sipa, :P
1322016-05-31T13:00:31  <phantomcircuit> it's in the name
1332016-05-31T13:00:34  <phantomcircuit> unit tests
1342016-05-31T13:01:34  <wumpus> though not all Planck units describe the minimum physical quantities, e.g. plack mass is pretty large (in the micrograms)
1352016-05-31T13:02:58  <wumpus> I guess that describes some of our unit tests that are actually RPC tests in disguise...
1362016-05-31T13:03:32  <sipa> hah
1372016-05-31T13:05:22  <sipa> planck pressure: 4.63 * 10^113 Pa
1382016-05-31T13:06:10  <wumpus> wow
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1402016-05-31T13:10:28  <GitHub165> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/950be19727a5...0026e0ef3472
1412016-05-31T13:10:29  <GitHub165> bitcoin/master 63ff57d Gregory Maxwell: Avoid integer division in the benchmark inner-most loop....
1422016-05-31T13:10:29  <GitHub165> bitcoin/master 0026e0e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8115: Avoid integer division in the benchmark inner-most loop....
1432016-05-31T13:10:41  <GitHub39> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8115: Avoid integer division in the benchmark inner-most loop. (master...better_bench) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8115
1442016-05-31T13:17:09  <GitHub24> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8097: RFC: rpc: Remove dns argument for getaddednodeinfo (master...remove-getaddednodeinfo-dns) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8097
1452016-05-31T13:19:24  <GitHub183> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0026e0ef3472...e7e25ea5128b
1462016-05-31T13:19:24  <GitHub183> bitcoin/master 1a8c4d5 fanquake: [Doc] Add benchmarking notes
1472016-05-31T13:19:25  <GitHub183> bitcoin/master e7e25ea Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8110: [Doc] Add benchmarking notes...
1482016-05-31T13:19:32  <GitHub35> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8112: Include signal.h for sig_atomic_t in WIN32 (master...winsigatomic) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8112
1492016-05-31T13:19:34  <GitHub145> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8110: [Doc] Add benchmarking notes (master...mention_bench) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8110
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1512016-05-31T13:27:35  <GitHub198> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7e25ea5128b...a2df11524938
1522016-05-31T13:27:35  <GitHub198> bitcoin/master b682960 Chris Stewart: Adding P2SH(p2pkh) script test case...
1532016-05-31T13:27:36  <GitHub198> bitcoin/master a2df115 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8090: Adding P2SH(p2pkh) script test case...
1542016-05-31T13:27:45  <GitHub128> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8090: Adding P2SH(p2pkh) script test case (master...add_p2sh_p2pkh_script_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8090
1552016-05-31T13:29:10  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I do think we use 'make deploy' in gitian builds for MacOSX
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1572016-05-31T13:29:25  <wumpus> I know this because I broke it at some point and gitian broke too :)
1582016-05-31T13:29:43  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: hmm.. okay. Maybe it uses a different script when crosscompiling over linux.
1592016-05-31T13:30:01  * jonasschnelli needs to look closer at this issue
1602016-05-31T13:31:31  <wumpus> so, as gitian OSX is not broken (AFAIK) it's possibly something with fanquake's local setup
1612016-05-31T13:32:14  <wumpus> not sure where background.tiff is supposed to be though
1622016-05-31T13:32:20  <wumpus> could this be an out-of-tree build issue?
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1652016-05-31T13:39:21  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Some weeks ago I have also encountered that a local "make deploy" on MAC does no longer work.
1662016-05-31T13:39:47  <jonasschnelli> IMO its because the make deploy calls the macdeployplus script locally (on Mac only).
1672016-05-31T13:40:02  <jonasschnelli> And I guess when you are cross compiling on a linux host, it does something different
1682016-05-31T13:40:34  <jonasschnelli> the background.tiff is a relict. It should have be gone after lukejs auto-renaming PR
1692016-05-31T13:41:29  <sipa> maybe he needs a git clean?
1702016-05-31T13:43:27  <wumpus> trying that would make sense
1712016-05-31T13:45:10  <GitHub98> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7867: deleted restored sampler Configure.ac restored bits to all networks =(%master%masterCode[{rLi}]) (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7867
1722016-05-31T13:47:54  <GitHub172> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a2df11524938...862fd24b40b4
1732016-05-31T13:47:54  <GitHub172> bitcoin/master 7e908c7 Gregory Maxwell: Do not use mempool for GETDATA for tx accepted after the last mempool req....
1742016-05-31T13:47:55  <GitHub172> bitcoin/master 862fd24 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8080: Do not use mempool for GETDATA for tx accepted after the last mempool req....
1752016-05-31T13:48:04  <GitHub70> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8080: Do not use mempool for GETDATA for tx accepted after the last mempool req. (master...nonmempool_getdata) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8080
1762016-05-31T13:51:06  <GitHub158> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8025: Increase DEFAULT_KEYPOOL_SIZE to 10000. (master...2016-05-08-wallet-defaults) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8025
1772016-05-31T13:53:16  <GitHub85> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to 0.12: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c3aedca2df89...e7ec24e336dc
1782016-05-31T13:53:17  <GitHub85> bitcoin/0.12 87129b2 Wladimir J. van der Laan: test: script_error checking in script_invalid tests...
1792016-05-31T13:53:17  <GitHub85> bitcoin/0.12 e3a9ce9 Pieter Wuille: Refactor script tests...
1802016-05-31T13:53:18  <GitHub85> bitcoin/0.12 e7ec24e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8001: [0.12.2] backport script_tests improvements...
1812016-05-31T13:53:21  <GitHub172> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8001: [0.12.2] backport script_tests improvements (0.12...Mf1605-012testbp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8001
1822016-05-31T13:53:26  <GitHub160> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7854: [0.12 backport] script_tests improvements from master and #7818 (0.12...refactorscriptests_12) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7854
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1912016-05-31T14:59:38  <luke-jr> sipa: what are we doing on https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/365/files#diff-c0db26883ccab057aaa394db5e50e4b1R123 ?
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2082016-05-31T17:47:56  <iniana> Is there something I can do, configuration-wise, to speed up initial synchronization? Right now it is painfully slow, and I cannot find the reason why. Around 1 or 2 blocks per second is processed and download peaks are at 15KB/s
2092016-05-31T17:49:52  <gmaxwell> iniana: depends on what is bottlenecking you.  If disk IO is, then increasing dbcache will help a lot.
2102016-05-31T17:50:16  <iniana> gmaxwell: Will try that. Thanks.
2112016-05-31T17:50:39  <gmaxwell> to do that set -dbcache=<megabytes>  don't set it more than the amount of free ram you have, minus about 600mb or so.
2122016-05-31T17:50:51  <gmaxwell> iniana: What sort of hardware are you on?
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2142016-05-31T17:54:37  <iniana> gmaxwell: Pretty standard hardware. Core i7 (2yo), 16GB RAM. Blockchain stored on a slow HDD though, so I hope the dbcache will work
2152016-05-31T17:55:03  <sipa> in that case, dbcache will help a lot
2162016-05-31T17:55:07  <sipa> set it to 3000 or more
2172016-05-31T17:55:31  <gmaxwell> yes, that will make it much faster. with 16GB ram you should be able to set it to 6000 or so and then the whole sync will basically happen in-memory, with just saving out chain to disk.
2182016-05-31T17:57:15  * sipa belies this C++ type could use some typedefs:
2192016-05-31T17:57:16  <sipa> std::deque<std::pair<int64_t, std::map<uint256, std::shared_ptr<const CTransaction>>::iterator>>
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2212016-05-31T18:00:21  <iniana> started up again, trying with dbcache=4000, but synching stalls. log mentions reindexing every single block file. Is that necessary? Is there some way to turn it off?
2222016-05-31T18:00:40  <sipa> did you start with -reindex?
2232016-05-31T18:00:52  <paveljanik> sipa, it looks like Perl 8)
2242016-05-31T18:01:07  <iniana> sipa: no
2252016-05-31T18:01:44  <sipa> iniana: can you c/p some typical 3 line snippet from debug.log?
2262016-05-31T18:01:48  <iniana> sipa: I copied the entire .bitcoin from another node I had though, if that matters.
2272016-05-31T18:02:01  <sipa> a running one?
2282016-05-31T18:02:46  <iniana> sipa: no, although maybe it didn't have a normal termination?
2292016-05-31T18:02:53  <iniana> 2016-05-31 17:57:18 Reindexing block file blk00070.dat... 2016-05-31 17:57:21 Block Import: already had block 000000000000003d64d714747fbfb615e056f533386d162f0bf5e049a9b6e0b2 at height 247000 2016-05-31 17:57:22 Reindexing block file blk00071.dat... 2016-05-31 17:57:23 Block Import: already had block 000000000000004d945017c14b75a3a58a2aa6772cacbfcaf907b3bee6d7f344 at height 248000
2302016-05-31T18:02:58  <gmaxwell> sipa: Why does dequeue gain the ctransaction shared_ptr iterator?
2312016-05-31T18:03:20  <sipa> gmaxwell: because that's smaller and faster than the hash
2322016-05-31T18:03:40  <sipa> the old code was stupid
2332016-05-31T18:04:02  <sipa> it's not a shared_ptr iterator btw, but a mapRelay iterator
2342016-05-31T18:04:09  <gmaxwell> sipa: isn't the iterator invalidated any time the map is updated?
2352016-05-31T18:04:13  <sipa> gmaxwell: nope!
2362016-05-31T18:04:20  <sipa> only when that specific item is deleted
2372016-05-31T18:05:44  <gmaxwell> okay, I understand why then.
2382016-05-31T18:06:03  <sipa> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/map/insert <- "No iterators or references are invalidated. "
2392016-05-31T18:06:32  <sipa> i'll document that change in the commit message
2402016-05-31T18:09:21  <sipa> gmaxwell: oops, no, can't do!
2412016-05-31T18:09:38  <sipa> it can cause double deletions, as the expiration entries are not unique
2422016-05-31T18:10:47  <gmaxwell> I guess it cares about mutations too?  I was thinking about adding a nodeid set to maprelay later to only answer queries for peers we actually inved to.
2432016-05-31T18:11:34  <sipa> the value of map entries can be changed, no problems (without iterator invalidation)
2442016-05-31T18:11:38  <sipa> keys can't ever change
2452016-05-31T18:11:41  <sipa> i'll leave it be
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2472016-05-31T18:13:37  <sipa> oh, no, it is unique
2482016-05-31T18:14:05  <gmaxwell> I was digging through trying to figure out how it wasn't unique...
2492016-05-31T18:14:22  <sipa> i'm confusing with askfor
2502016-05-31T18:15:15  <gmaxwell> I would like to remove the expiration entry and reinsert it if the old expiration was 'too soon'... but that doesn't change the situation for the map with the shared pointers.
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2522016-05-31T18:33:50  <sipa> gmaxwell: since #8080, if pto->timeLastMempoolReq == 0, we don't need to check the mempool at all, right?
2532016-05-31T18:34:10  <gmaxwell> Right.
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2572016-05-31T19:33:17  <phantomcircuit> iniana, it's probably a good idea to reindex if you copied ... but it shouldn't need to do so
2582016-05-31T19:33:26  <phantomcircuit> are you sure you exited cleanly on the other node?
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2622016-05-31T19:46:59  <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I would make a bet they copied the blocks directory without the chainstate.
2632016-05-31T19:50:29  <sipa> that would not result in a 'reindexing' message
2642016-05-31T19:51:05  * gmaxwell withdraws bet
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2972016-05-31T22:51:38  <GitHub133> [bitcoin] theuni opened pull request #8128: Net: Turn net structures into dumb storage classes (master...split-resolve) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8128
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3012016-05-31T22:57:23  <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i assume they had a node which they manually reindexed with a higher dbcache setting which wasn't cleanly shutdown
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3042016-05-31T23:14:18  <GitHub56> [bitcoin] UdjinM6 opened pull request #8129: Fix RPC console auto completer (master...fixRPCAutoCompleter_bitcoin) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8129
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