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 35 2016-10-22T02:25:42  <GitHub101> [bitcoin] jtimon opened pull request #8994: Testchains: Introduce custom chain whose constructor...  (master...0.13-new-testchain) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8994
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 37 2016-10-22T02:33:31  <gmaxwell> jtimon: regarding your comment in lightning-dev, it's kind of rude to the community here to go around to our end users to advocate a pull request that has been open for 7 minutes.
 38 2016-10-22T02:35:02  <jtimon> gmaxwell: thanks, noted. I'm poor in netiquette I think
 39 2016-10-22T02:36:00  <jtimon> I was thinking about them while wrting the btanch though, in my defense
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 42 2016-10-22T02:39:42  <gmaxwell> Sure, and in this case I don't think it answers what they were asking about. Their concern was that they want a globally shared public testnet, but without having a 2000 block reorg every couple months that breaks their stuff. :)
 43 2016-10-22T02:39:54  <gmaxwell> and having chainparames in a file doesn't really change that.
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 48 2016-10-22T03:02:32  <GitHub9> [bitcoin] TheBlueMatt opened pull request #8995: Add missing cs_main lock to ::GETBLOCKTXN processing (master...2016-10-fix-getblocktxn-locks) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8995
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 95 2016-10-22T06:58:32  <wumpus> < gmaxwell> and having chainparames in a file doesn't really change that <- well it could. There's no rule that people can't share chainparams file
 96 2016-10-22T06:59:14  <wumpus> with chainparams files they could have arbitrarily defined shared testsnets, sharable by just copying a file
 97 2016-10-22T06:59:34  <wumpus> that's 100% better than having to go through our review process every time whether some network is really worth defining
 98 2016-10-22T07:00:54  <wumpus> or whether it should burden the codebase forever
 99 2016-10-22T07:01:29  <wumpus> I really don't understand the opposition to this idea, are you afraid people will make actual altcoins this way?
100 2016-10-22T07:02:25  <wumpus> I personally doubt that, as it doesn't let you override things that are not in the codebase in the first place like hash algorithm
101 2016-10-22T07:03:20  <wumpus> but imagine: people want some testnet and they can just define it and share it, instead of having to bother us
102 2016-10-22T07:06:00  <wumpus> *without* having to compile their own software
103 2016-10-22T07:08:39  <btcdrak> I like the idea. Testnet is a mess at the best of times.
104 2016-10-22T07:10:46  <btcdrak> It's also testnet, I think giving users a bit of freedom to start/join their own test chain means we dont have to worry as much about it.
105 2016-10-22T07:11:29  <wumpus> and the possibilities for the QA tests are also many, e.g. there was some pull to improve testing by changing the halving interval (8623). This was rejected because it burdens the software with special-case options
106 2016-10-22T07:11:57  <wumpus> if the parameters are just read from some .json file, no such problem anymore, the test can just define its own parameters
107 2016-10-22T07:12:15  <wumpus> btcdrak: exactly
108 2016-10-22T07:13:27  <btcdrak> Also, since there is no incentive to mine a testnet, they are always going to be unstable and unusable. I have spent _month_ chasing testnet miners when their stuff breaks, goes offline. It's been utterly impossible. Then you get people like Ver running consensus incompatible stuff on the main testnet making it unusable for everyone else. At least this way
109 2016-10-22T07:13:27  <btcdrak> he could test what he wants on a private chain without causing major disruption.
110 2016-10-22T07:16:04  <wumpus> yes the mining problem would not be solved by this - I guess for that one we do need limited mining algo choice in the chain file, e.g. a 'fake mining' where the blocks are signed regularly by a central party (that's fine for a testnet)
111 2016-10-22T07:18:17  <btcdrak> Well my own opinion is the diff 1 thing is utterly useless, we'd be much better having a per block retarget on testnet if using PoW.
112 2016-10-22T07:18:38  <wumpus> the signing key would be in the json, no keys would be hardcoded into the client code, "wumpus signs a block every 10 minutes" fine
113 2016-10-22T07:18:59  <btcdrak> oh interesting.
114 2016-10-22T07:19:48  <wumpus> yes, you could also choose PoW with some other parameters
115 2016-10-22T07:20:03  <wumpus> as long as it is double-SHA256 :-)
116 2016-10-22T07:21:07  <btcdrak> I have a very well battle tested fast diff adjustment. Certainly the most accurate one in live deployment.
117 2016-10-22T07:39:26  <gmaxwell> wumpus: congrats, you get the jtimon award for not listening.
118 2016-10-22T07:39:35  <gmaxwell> wumpus: no one was asking to define more testnets.
119 2016-10-22T07:40:11  <gmaxwell> wumpus: they were asking to have a public testnet shared among everyone with predictable blocks and no uncontrolled reorgs.
120 2016-10-22T07:40:58  <gmaxwell> If a config file is a good thing or not is not here nor there. I suppose it's fine (except in so far that it cruds up the code with additional indirection to read things that would otherwise be constants).
121 2016-10-22T07:45:11  <gmaxwell> Going and telling people, that you're getting this instead when it doesn't do at all what they asked for is insulting.
122 2016-10-22T07:45:12  <wumpus> that indirection already exits
123 2016-10-22T07:45:31  <wumpus> from the time this CChainParams structure was defined
124 2016-10-22T07:45:35  <wumpus> we're just not using it to the fullest
125 2016-10-22T07:45:49  <gmaxwell> wumpus: get it out of your head that I'm at all commenting on having the files.
126 2016-10-22T07:46:31  <gmaxwell> I don't care, I think it's a pointless feature that we've already lowered the quality of the codebase to enable, but that wasn't the point.
127 2016-10-22T07:46:34  <wumpus> sure, but being able to define additional testnets also makes it possible to define more reliable ones, as well as having the wildwest one for testing other things
128 2016-10-22T07:46:44  <wumpus> god damnit
129 2016-10-22T07:47:04  <btcdrak> well federated signing will go a long way to help that aim. configurable testnets would be an easy way to achieve that
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131 2016-10-22T07:47:08  <wumpus> YOU don't listen either
132 2016-10-22T07:47:22  <wumpus> btcdrak: exactly
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134 2016-10-22T07:47:38  <gmaxwell> wumpus: glad we have something in common then. :)
135 2016-10-22T07:47:46  <wumpus> "lowering the quality of the codebase" why
136 2016-10-22T07:47:52  <wumpus> how do you suggest doing that in a better way?
137 2016-10-22T07:48:07  <wumpus> can you stop complaining for once? not only what matters to you matters
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139 2016-10-22T07:48:58  <wumpus> I'm tired of this madness, whatever you do people are going to complain, going to disengage from bitcoin-related things for a while
140 2016-10-22T07:50:54  <gmaxwell> There are places where we're making multiple function calls in an inner loop to access a constant integer.
141 2016-10-22T07:51:41  <wumpus> most of that gets optimized out as they're inline functions
142 2016-10-22T07:51:56  <wumpus> and where not, it usually doesn't matter as it's not used in performance critical loops anyway
143 2016-10-22T07:54:38  <wumpus> if it is an actual bottleneck somewhere, I'd like to know of course
144 2016-10-22T07:56:24  <gmaxwell> How would we ever no, no one ever checks? we just end up with GetChainparams().GetConsensus().getdarnaninterger() all of the place.. :P but I don't care and I don't know why you think I care.
145 2016-10-22T07:56:37  <gmaxwell> please review my commentary earlier. I said _nothing_ negative about having a configuration file.
146 2016-10-22T07:56:47  <gmaxwell> It is the case that I'm not impressed by it, but whatever.
147 2016-10-22T07:57:00  <gmaxwell> That isn't what I was commenting on.
148 2016-10-22T07:57:37  <gmaxwell> I was commenting on jtimon going to people who asked for something specific and telling them that this other thing was what they were getting. Thats all. it creates awkwardness.
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150 2016-10-22T07:59:23  <wumpus> GetChainparams().GetConsensus().getdarnaninterger() is temporary, the idea is to have the consensus parameters either available (e.g. pass them in) or store them locally
151 2016-10-22T07:59:49  <wumpus> this disentangles from using global structures everywhere, which is useful for testing
152 2016-10-22T08:00:10  <wumpus> things can be tested in isolation instead of having to take care of all kind of global state that leaks in
153 2016-10-22T08:00:12  <gmaxwell> K. Thats reasonable.
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155 2016-10-22T08:01:26  <gmaxwell> When I commented to jtimon earlier, I didn't have any recent opinions about the indirection, though I did just spend an hour ripping out checkpoints completely before your comments, so I had something to offer when you brought it up.
156 2016-10-22T08:04:01  <gmaxwell> I came up with a way to completely eliminate checkpoints-- missing part was how to prevent header flooding attacks-- that I think is deployable. (assuming we're either okay with removing the signature skipping which I still need to benchmark, or we replace it with some not checkpoint thing)...
157 2016-10-22T08:05:40  <btcdrak> I do wish we could accelerate the libconsensus work, it's so long and drawn out.
158 2016-10-22T08:10:23  <wumpus> that applies to all projects going on, not just libconsensus
159 2016-10-22T08:10:58  <wumpus> our development methodology is too slow for handling even all submitted PRs
160 2016-10-22T08:11:08  <wumpus> and no, I have no clue how to improve it
161 2016-10-22T08:12:39  <wumpus> too much going on for me to handle anymore at least
162 2016-10-22T08:12:41  <gmaxwell> tell you what though, -- having lots of things we know we want to do, more than there are hours in a day-- is a lot better problem than the opposite.
163 2016-10-22T08:13:51  <wumpus> sure, you have a good point there
164 2016-10-22T08:16:34  <wumpus> it's good that things are going faster than ever, but it does expose the bottlenecks in the process
165 2016-10-22T08:18:06  <gmaxwell> And we're getting a _ton_ of interesting things done, ... which is a better metric than the ratio of our appetite to our plate. :)
166 2016-10-22T08:18:09  <gmaxwell> yea.
167 2016-10-22T08:18:26  <gmaxwell> (sorry for the delayed response, turns out wifi doesn't work so well when you rmmod the driver) :P
168 2016-10-22T08:19:40  <wumpus> so at least let's try to be understanding of changes other people are trying to do, have some trust in them even if you can't follow them in detail
169 2016-10-22T08:20:20  <wumpus> this project became too big for any one person to follow everyone
170 2016-10-22T08:21:56  <wumpus> I'm still trying and it only gives me a headache and lack of sleep
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172 2016-10-22T08:27:28  <wumpus> in any case I'm going to work on GPU drivers a bit more now, still have some outstanding work to do there, maybe I can return to bitcoin with a clearer perspective
173 2016-10-22T08:32:41  <Victorsueca> morning
174 2016-10-22T08:33:41  <shangzhou> wumpus: I want to thank you and other devs for the ongoing great contributions.
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180 2016-10-22T08:50:58  <wumpus> shangzhou: thank you
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190 2016-10-22T09:24:51  <GitHub153> [bitcoin] rebroad closed pull request #8959: Fix sort arrow in peer table (master...FixPeerTableSort) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8959
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214 2016-10-22T11:24:36  <btcdrak> are there any particular things we need to cover in the segwit migration guide?
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216 2016-10-22T11:27:16  <gmaxwell> so far the things I'm aware of are peremiter node deployment, and what to do if you're on older debian without a C++11 compiler.
217 2016-10-22T11:28:58  <gmaxwell> for the latter, I'm not sure what the answer is.. one option is "use bitcoin.org binaries" but if you have to compile perhaps there is a newer compiler you can install out of the next distro version without breaking things?
218 2016-10-22T11:32:55  <btcdrak> i wonder if aj has any insights, ping
219 2016-10-22T11:33:59  <btcdrak> which min version of debian has c++11 support?
220 2016-10-22T11:34:28  <aj> seems like jessie; the bitcoin.org binaries seemed to work fine for me in a chroot
221 2016-10-22T11:37:20  <gmaxwell> wheezy doesn't and I had a couple of companies mention this to me, they don't seem too concerned about it but we should have some guidance. I'm pretty sure the binaries will work fine, and I can test... but if there is also an option for people who need/want to compile that would be good too.
222 2016-10-22T11:37:42  <btcdrak> they could always use the gitian build process to make binaries if they are more paranoid.
223 2016-10-22T11:38:33  <gmaxwell> may be a product of customization instead of paranoia, but hm indeed, use the same process to build static binaries on another system would also work.
224 2016-10-22T11:39:09  <aj> i don't see any updated gcc versions in backports
225 2016-10-22T11:39:15  <btcdrak> gmaxwell:  have you looked at the draft blog post and migration stuff harding has been working on?
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227 2016-10-22T12:02:22  <wumpus> yes a depends build on another system with the same architecture should be sufficient
228 2016-10-22T12:02:35  <wumpus> (or alternatively a  depends cross-compile)
229 2016-10-22T12:04:55  <wumpus> also configure with LDFLAGS=-static-libstdc++
230 2016-10-22T12:05:50  <btcdrak> Is this a random travis fail? https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/169675967
231 2016-10-22T12:05:52  <wumpus> but that should be all, using the full gitian process should not be necessary if you're just building binaries for yourself
232 2016-10-22T12:06:48  <wumpus> yes there seem to be random travis failires at the moment with p2p-compactblocks.py, does it pass locally?
233 2016-10-22T12:06:56  <btcdrak> strangely enough, Travis offers me a "restart job" button, which I can press and it says "successfully restarted job" but nothing happens.
234 2016-10-22T12:07:24  <wumpus> I pushed it too...
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238 2016-10-22T12:17:46  <btcdrak> wumpus: p2p-compactblocks.py passes locally for me on that PR.
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246 2016-10-22T12:54:09  <wumpus> ok
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261 2016-10-22T14:42:56  <Victorsueca> so the next release is the final one? or we will have another rc?
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265 2016-10-22T14:54:59  <btcdrak> If there are no blockers, next release will be final
266 2016-10-22T14:56:48  <wumpus> the final release before the end of the world
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268 2016-10-22T14:59:48  <Victorsueca> lol
269 2016-10-22T15:01:04  <Victorsueca> the end of the world.... as we know it and the beginning of the decentralised currency era! buy bitcoin know while your fiduciary money is still worth something!
270 2016-10-22T15:01:26  <Victorsueca> wumpus: just converted your sentence into a commercial :D
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279 2016-10-22T16:08:56  <PRab> FYI, I'm running RC2 on Windows 10 64bit and it appears to be working correctly.
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281 2016-10-22T16:21:09  <PRab> Hm... Did something in RC2 change about minimizing/closing?
282 2016-10-22T16:22:09  <PRab> I think something must have. Before when I clicked the X, it would go into the notification tray. Now it just goes into the taskbar.
283 2016-10-22T16:22:44  <PRab> I just tried a bunch of the combinations in options->Windows and can't figure out how to make it do the old behavior any more.
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285 2016-10-22T16:25:36  <MarcoFalke> PRab: Please see the release notes
286 2016-10-22T16:25:58  <MarcoFalke> (GUI section)
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288 2016-10-22T16:27:59  <PRab> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.13/doc/release-notes/release-notes-0.13.0.md ?
289 2016-10-22T16:28:11  <PRab> I can't find any specifically for 0.13.1
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291 2016-10-22T16:29:14  <achow101> PRab: 0.13 branch doc/release-notes.md
292 2016-10-22T16:29:58  <luke-jr> it's not really done yet
293 2016-10-22T16:30:18  <luke-jr> has some very misleading/confusing language about segwit
294 2016-10-22T16:30:24  <MarcoFalke> But the minimize/close fix is menitioned
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296 2016-10-22T16:30:36  <MarcoFalke> I think that is what PRab was looking for
297 2016-10-22T16:31:03  <PRab> Checking it out.
298 2016-10-22T16:31:50  <achow101> PRab: did you check the "Minimize to tray instead of taskbar" option?
299 2016-10-22T16:31:51  <PRab> Your talking about - #8481 `d9f0d4e` Fix minimize and close bugs (adlawren), right?
300 2016-10-22T16:32:03  <PRab> achow101: Yes.
301 2016-10-22T16:32:32  <PRab> I like the old behavior where Minimize sends it to the taskbar and Close sends it to its notification icon.
302 2016-10-22T16:33:23  <luke-jr> I don't think that was ever intentional XD
303 2016-10-22T16:33:40  <PRab> Oh... It was nice that way.
304 2016-10-22T16:34:07  <luke-jr> could open a PR adding it as a well-defined behaviour option
305 2016-10-22T16:35:01  <luke-jr> eg Close behaviour: [Exit, Minimize, minimize-to-tray]
306 2016-10-22T16:35:03  <achow101> for me it has always gone into the tray regardless of which button I clicked
307 2016-10-22T16:35:05  <PRab> is it a bug or intended that if I have both "Minimize to tray..." and "Minimize on close" checked that when you restore it from the tray, it restores minimized?
308 2016-10-22T16:35:17  <luke-jr> achow101: indeed, must be platform-specific?
309 2016-10-22T16:35:33  <achow101> luke-jr: seen it on both ubuntu and windows
310 2016-10-22T16:35:51  <luke-jr> PRab: it should never appear minimized if you have minimize-to-tray
311 2016-10-22T16:36:17  <PRab> Then that sounds like a bug to me.
312 2016-10-22T16:37:22  <PRab> I have both checked. I click close and it goes to the tray. I double click the tray and it shows up in the taskbar minimized. Finally I click the taskbar and it restores the actual window.
313 2016-10-22T16:37:43  <PRab> I realize this is all fairly petty.
314 2016-10-22T16:37:53  <achow101> that's probably a bug. I just go used to it. that has been around for a while
315 2016-10-22T16:37:58  <achow101> *got
316 2016-10-22T16:38:07  <luke-jr> PRab: works fine here; what OS?
317 2016-10-22T16:38:12  <PRab> Windows 10
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380 2016-10-22T23:45:24  <michagogo> 22:19:47 <midnightmagic> :-/  What the hell. Why would my GnuPG key require a matching email in order to show as verified in github.
381 2016-10-22T23:45:43  <michagogo> Yeah, annoying to me too
382 2016-10-22T23:47:14  <michagogo> At least they let you just put yourusername@users.noreply.github.com on the key and it works
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384 2016-10-22T23:48:13  <luke-jr> lol
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