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  5 2016-11-15T00:46:00  <sipa> achow101: i believe they never have been
  6 2016-11-15T00:49:06  <achow101> well they're listed here: https://bitcoin.org/en/about-us#sponsorship
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 12 2016-11-15T01:13:21  <shinyg> so was there a specific reason why new releases stopped coming from bitcoin.org?
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 14 2016-11-15T01:13:55  <sipa> they're still published there
 15 2016-11-15T01:14:10  <sipa> but bitcoin core has its own project website now
 16 2016-11-15T01:14:26  <achow101> they're trying to separate bitcoin core from bitcoin.org as bitcoin.org is for bitcoin in general whilst bitcoin core is a specific project
 17 2016-11-15T01:15:09  <shinyg> makes sense, how about is Bitcoin Core a Solution stack or software as some describe it/
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 19 2016-11-15T01:17:11  <shinyg> Maybe bitcoin is a software stack but Core is just software
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 21 2016-11-15T01:28:17  <Squidicuz> sipa, cool. I take it that site is bitcoincore.org, right?
 22 2016-11-15T01:28:39  <achow101> Squidicuz: yes, bitcoincore.org is Bitcoin Core's site
 23 2016-11-15T01:29:10  <Squidicuz> just double checking. ty
 24 2016-11-15T01:29:12  <Squidicuz> :)
 25 2016-11-15T01:29:26  <tulip> shinyg: with tools like gitian there's no real need for a canonical binary source.
 26 2016-11-15T01:31:17  <Squidicuz> ...I'm a little late
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 28 2016-11-15T01:43:55  <moli> sipa, hi, could you update your graph?
 29 2016-11-15T01:45:29  <sipa> which?
 30 2016-11-15T01:45:37  <achow101> bip9 bits graph
 31 2016-11-15T01:45:48  <sipa> oh, will do
 32 2016-11-15T01:45:54  <sipa> before the 18th
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 34 2016-11-15T01:46:14  <moli> ah still too early? ok, thanks, sipa :)
 35 2016-11-15T01:46:33  <sipa> yes, first retarget after the 15th midnight utc
 36 2016-11-15T01:46:35  <achow101> miners can signal now, right? just that it won't matter because the retarget period is almsot over
 37 2016-11-15T01:46:49  <btcdrak> at this rate of acceleration it might just at the end of 17th...
 38 2016-11-15T01:46:53  <sipa> them signalling right now will trigger the unknown softfork warning
 39 2016-11-15T01:47:24  <achow101> oh, that's interesting
 40 2016-11-15T01:47:46  <btcdrak> sipa: would those trigger while in the defined state?
 41 2016-11-15T01:48:10  <btcdrak> oh nvm, ofc it will trigger, derp
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 44 2016-11-15T01:48:37  <achow101> why would it trigger?
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 46 2016-11-15T01:50:48  <achow101> oh, is it because it is still in the defined state, not started?
 47 2016-11-15T01:50:53  <sipa> indeed
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 49 2016-11-15T01:51:09  <sipa> so it would be seen as signalling for an unrelated fork
 50 2016-11-15T01:52:04  <sipa> which the current software does not know about
 51 2016-11-15T01:52:23  <achow101> why are the two graphs on the segwit adoption page on opposite ends of the page? also, chrome is super not liking that sipa's website doesn't have https for those graphs
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 56 2016-11-15T02:07:13  <shinyg> thanks for the replies sipa and wiki contribs achow
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 64 2016-11-15T02:51:21  * jtimon pushed jtimon/0.13-blocksign-latest on top of jtimon/0.13-blocksign on top of jtimon/0.13-new-testchain on top of jtimon/0.13-chainparams-factory eb6c595e on top of  origin/master 924745dd
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 67 2016-11-15T02:52:43  <achow101> wut
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 69 2016-11-15T03:08:52  <phantomcircuit> #8831
 70 2016-11-15T03:08:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8831 | Replace CWalletDB::ReadKeyValue with CWallet::LoadKeyValue by pstratem · Pull Request #8831 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 71 2016-11-15T03:08:55  <phantomcircuit> please
 72 2016-11-15T03:08:57  <phantomcircuit> someone
 73 2016-11-15T03:08:59  <phantomcircuit> review
 74 2016-11-15T03:09:01  <phantomcircuit> please
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101 2016-11-15T06:20:07  <gmaxwell> looks like some folks are signaling segwit prematurely.
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109 2016-11-15T06:59:33  <midnightmagic> :-o
110 2016-11-15T07:00:32  <gmaxwell> Not harmful, but it's more evidence for my concern that version has been burned for consensus critical use.
111 2016-11-15T07:00:53  <gmaxwell> I blame Luke. :P
112 2016-11-15T07:02:53  <luke-jr> ☹
113 2016-11-15T07:03:09  * luke-jr doesn't deny being at fault in part.
114 2016-11-15T07:05:06  <gmaxwell> I think the big interface error is that mining exposes gnarly consensus internals to people who are not primarily interested in them but instead have simpler (though critical) goals like: Get mining working fast and reliably.
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116 2016-11-15T07:06:06  <gmaxwell> E.g. it's not a good seperation of concerns. I don't have any doubt that any of the pool ops couldn't be great consensus plumbers if they wanted to be, but when they're hacking on pool software that isn't what they're trying to do.
117 2016-11-15T07:06:13  <luke-jr> yes, in hindsight it may have been better to do a more stratum-like getwork replacement in bitcoind (but that had its own share of problems)
118 2016-11-15T07:06:38  <luke-jr> by separation of this, we did gain a few things: miners can upgrade easier now than with 0.3+tons of patching
119 2016-11-15T07:06:58  <gmaxwell> We could be much worse off for sure.
120 2016-11-15T07:07:37  <luke-jr> I tried to make it simpler by having a GBT client library (libblkmaker), but it seems it isn't in any real use outside of BFGMiner
121 2016-11-15T07:10:26  <gmaxwell> One of the lessons (which I already knew from before) is that having a 'bad' interface, then a 'make it friendly' layer often doesn't work.  People will either never find the friendlyness layer, or not use it because your own test cases don't (which they look at to understand the interface), will encounter some limitation in it and go raw, or otherwise insist on doing their own for some better o
122 2016-11-15T07:10:32  <gmaxwell> r worse reason.
123 2016-11-15T07:12:42  <gmaxwell> I explirenced this with libvorbis, which had a vorbisfile API which was 100x easier to use right than the raw interface, included with the same library... and mostly used, but still bypassed often enough to cause frequent bogus support issues that would have been avoided by using vorbisfile. ...  and especially with liboggz which is a high level interface to many ogg embedded formats and ogg han
124 2016-11-15T07:12:48  <gmaxwell> dling which handles most of the gnarly stuff, ... and which virtually no one uses... instead implementing the same functionality themselves, usually incorrectly.
125 2016-11-15T07:13:24  <luke-jr> :/
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127 2016-11-15T07:14:10  <jl2012> which block is signalling segwit?
128 2016-11-15T07:14:24  <gmaxwell> Then Opus (which has a much more carefully contstructed raw API) didn't ship with a opusfile (analog of the vorbisfile high level API), and relative usage of opusfile is probably 100x lower than vorbisfile.  Shipping it with it as a single package makes a big difference.
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130 2016-11-15T07:15:48  <gmaxwell> jl2012: 438958 and 438914 I think.
131 2016-11-15T07:16:30  <jl2012> oh, slush
132 2016-11-15T07:17:39  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: in any case, the general advice I think we should follow is whe should always imagine the goals of the person using an API, and them assume that they will only correctly handle any non-trivial steps that were obvious from a statement of their goals.
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134 2016-11-15T07:19:36  <gmaxwell> Like an API for signing should not ask the signer to provide a nonce that must obey some byzantine set of security requirements. Their goal was signing, not generating random numbers.  If it's easy to get it working without getting it right, it's a cointoss if they'll get it right or not.  (I don't mean this in a superior or condecending way-- it's human nature to get tunnel vision around your o
135 2016-11-15T07:19:42  <gmaxwell> wn goals).
136 2016-11-15T07:21:02  <gmaxwell> plus, expecting people to worry about details that aren't related to their goals is a failure to respect their time.
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144 2016-11-15T08:46:40  <wumpus> it doesn't help that 'friendly' layers have a reputation to increase overhead and make things slower, deserved or not
145 2016-11-15T08:48:51  <wumpus> so this may be mainly an issue for cases where there are (perceived) performance concerns, like with media APIs and mining... people always clamoring for a more 'raw' interface instead of a 'friendly' one. Same for 3D rendering with the Vulkan instead of OpenGL interface. "closer to the hardware" etc
146 2016-11-15T08:50:00  *** luke-jr has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
147 2016-11-15T08:52:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b42291334651...770364b8eaf7
148 2016-11-15T08:52:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ec34648 Russell Yanofsky: [trivial] Fix hungarian variable name...
149 2016-11-15T08:52:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 770364b Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #9160: [trivial] Fix hungarian variable name...
150 2016-11-15T08:52:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9160: [trivial] Fix hungarian variable name (master...hungarian) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9160
151 2016-11-15T08:57:49  <wumpus> also some attempts at friendly interfaces have actually made things harder by abstracting away details that matter, causing the API user to do brittle or nonsensical things when you see the whole picture. Or including scope/dependencies which are not necessary for a project (e.g. texture loaders for 33 image formats while the game only needs one). Good API/library design is hard and both
152 2016-11-15T08:57:55  <wumpus> commercial projects and open source projects have a lot of sins there
153 2016-11-15T09:02:22  <wumpus> the best way of 'imagining the goal of the person using the API' is probably to be a user of the API yourself, instead of just guessing to imagine what the goal of a user of the API could be. With mining we have some issues there because there are so few miners involved with development at any level :(
154 2016-11-15T09:06:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/770364b8eaf7...f54e4605fc31
155 2016-11-15T09:06:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f734505 Jonas Schnelli: Make strWalletFile const
156 2016-11-15T09:06:31  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f54e460 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #9132: Make strWalletFile const...
157 2016-11-15T09:06:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9132: Make strWalletFile const (master...2016/11/strWalletFile_const) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9132
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162 2016-11-15T09:12:54  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: would a configuration option for a specific block-files path make sense?
163 2016-11-15T09:14:10  <jonasschnelli> paveljanik: what do you mean with ""Conditionalize" QR on QT?"?
164 2016-11-15T09:14:25  <wumpus> yes - however that needs more infrastructure than just adding an option. If bitcoind's state can be distributed over multiple places, those all need a 'datadir lock'
165 2016-11-15T09:14:43  <paveljanik> jonasschnelli, I qt = yes then echo $QR;
166 2016-11-15T09:14:46  <wumpus> the symbolic link hack is unsupported but works
167 2016-11-15T09:14:56  <paveljanik> ie if Qt is disabled, no need to print info on QR
168 2016-11-15T09:15:22  <wumpus> an official option + infrastructure for it would make it slightly harder to shoot yourself in the foot though, as people will try to share a blocks directory between instances and shit like that
169 2016-11-15T09:15:26  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. Dir locking would be required. You mean with a simple .lock file?
170 2016-11-15T09:15:45  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: exactly the same as we do for the data directory
171 2016-11-15T09:16:05  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Okay. Thanks...
172 2016-11-15T09:16:14  <wumpus> however, there's a snag: locking doesn't work very well on remote filesystems
173 2016-11-15T09:16:18  <jonasschnelli> paveljanik: Yes. This makes sense.
174 2016-11-15T09:16:30  <jonasschnelli> Also, not sure how easy it would be to print out the Qt version...
175 2016-11-15T09:16:44  <wumpus> you don't need to print the qt version - just 4 or 6
176 2016-11-15T09:16:47  <wumpus> eh, 5
177 2016-11-15T09:17:14  <luke-jr> yeah, probably don't need the exact version
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179 2016-11-15T09:17:50  <wumpus> printing the exact version is possible if pkgconfig was used, but it's not really what people care about usually
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181 2016-11-15T09:18:20  <wumpus> +the minor versions can change if the distribution version is upgraded and shared libraries are used
182 2016-11-15T09:18:27  <wumpus> the major version is a compile-time decision
183 2016-11-15T09:18:49  <luke-jr> good point, for that reason it's actually preferable to only print major
184 2016-11-15T09:19:03  <jonasschnelli> Yes. But I guess getting the version number in configure.ac would require changes in the bitcoin-qt m4 macro.
185 2016-11-15T09:19:16  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: yese, don't get stuck in that rabbit hole, just print the major version
186 2016-11-15T09:19:28  <jonasschnelli> Will have a look
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188 2016-11-15T09:20:21  <wumpus> though possible that needs deeper autoconf changes too, as the macro needs to export the version, but maybe it alredy does as the major version is printed while configure is running
189 2016-11-15T09:24:14  <jonasschnelli> Indeed. Will have a look.
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191 2016-11-15T09:35:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f54e4605fc31...018a4eb120dc
192 2016-11-15T09:35:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b74ff5c Luke Dashjr: Bugfix: Correctly replace generated headers and fail cleanly...
193 2016-11-15T09:35:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 018a4eb Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #9140: Bugfix: Correctly replace generated headers and fail cleanly...
194 2016-11-15T09:35:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9140: Bugfix: Correctly replace generated headers and fail cleanly (master...bugfix_genheaders) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9140
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200 2016-11-15T10:18:14  <phantomcircuit> sipa: thanks for the review
201 2016-11-15T10:18:16  <phantomcircuit> but why
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208 2016-11-15T11:02:37  <thrasher`> hey all, just wondering how https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/test/paymentrequestdata.h#L440 this request was generated?
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213 2016-11-15T11:30:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonathan0405 opened pull request #9162: Ict block (master...ict) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9162
214 2016-11-15T11:33:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #9162: Ict  (master...ict) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9162
215 2016-11-15T12:15:39  <wumpus> thrasher`: no idea; there must be some code out there to generate payment requests, but I don't know any specific one
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237 2016-11-15T14:20:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] instagibbs opened pull request #9164: [trivial] credit values are CAmount (master...intcredit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9164
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241 2016-11-15T14:38:42  <sdaftuar> thrasher`: i don't know where that test case came from, but i do recall this github comment that may be of help: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5620#issuecomment-69351549
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258 2016-11-15T15:30:40  <jonasschnelli> This one is easy to review if someone has 2-3 minutes of boringness: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9142
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260 2016-11-15T15:41:36  <thermoman> hi there. just upgraded a 0.11.2 node to 0.13.1 and found out that RPC calls "listtransaction" doesn't work anymore
261 2016-11-15T15:41:44  <thermoman> bitcoin-cli says can't parse reply
262 2016-11-15T15:42:01  <thermoman> tcpdump reveals that the answer is sent to the client, looks like valid jason
263 2016-11-15T15:42:23  <thermoman> EXCEPT: there are non-utf8 chars mixed in between in the comments associated with some TXs
264 2016-11-15T15:42:42  <thermoman> like 0xFC for german umlaut ü (ue)
265 2016-11-15T15:42:58  <thermoman> latin1 1byte instead of utf8 two bytes
266 2016-11-15T15:43:36  <jonasschnelli> thermoman: I'm just trying to reproduce this
267 2016-11-15T15:43:40  <thermoman> so now I'm stuck and luke-jr suggested starting a discussion here about how to handle non-utf8 wallets
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269 2016-11-15T15:45:37  <jonasschnelli> thermoman: Just did: sendtoaddress(getnewaddress(), 1, "Dr Schmöörenbröd, Bèrtälzç")
270 2016-11-15T15:45:50  <jonasschnelli> listtransaction works (in Qt though):  "comment": "Dr Schmöörenbröd, Bèrtälzç",
271 2016-11-15T15:45:55  <jonasschnelli> Now testing bitcoin-cli
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273 2016-11-15T15:46:26  <jonasschnelli> works as well
274 2016-11-15T15:46:30  <thermoman> but what about comments entered in 0.11.2 or even before?
275 2016-11-15T15:46:47  <jonasschnelli> hmm... yes.
276 2016-11-15T15:46:54  <jonasschnelli> Give me your wallet.dat. :)
277 2016-11-15T15:47:07  <jonasschnelli> Let me check the code
278 2016-11-15T15:47:09  <thermoman> with the RPC calls there the client would send umlauts as latin1 instead of utf8
279 2016-11-15T15:47:48  <jonasschnelli> thermoman: does it work for you when you create (temporary) a new wallet and send tx with a comment with umlaute?
280 2016-11-15T15:48:03  <thermoman> didn't try this yet
281 2016-11-15T15:48:10  <jonasschnelli> Maybe give it a try...
282 2016-11-15T15:49:19  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: most likely your sendtoaddress call used UTF-8? :p
283 2016-11-15T15:50:24  <jonasschnelli> Yeah. I guess you can get stuck with a wtx holding an latin1 char. But why does that break JSON parsing?
284 2016-11-15T15:51:22  <jonasschnelli> Hmm.. thinking of an easy solution.. i guess there is non.
285 2016-11-15T15:51:22  <luke-jr> because we just send the wtx comment as-is, Univalue passes it through as-is, and valid JSON may only use UTF-8
286 2016-11-15T15:51:58  <jonasschnelli> I guess best solution is to fiddle with the BDB file directly
287 2016-11-15T15:52:04  <jonasschnelli> remove the char there...
288 2016-11-15T15:52:14  <jonasschnelli> But I wouldn't do that with a hex editor.
289 2016-11-15T15:52:23  <jonasschnelli> Maybe some berkley-db tool
290 2016-11-15T15:53:13  <thermoman> there is db_dump
291 2016-11-15T15:53:32  <thermoman> but i'm not sure I will see the text in plain there to be edited
292 2016-11-15T15:54:26  <rafalcpp> maybe rebuild the bitcoind with a path that replaces the comment field with empty string when generating rpc reply?
293 2016-11-15T15:54:32  <rafalcpp> *patch
294 2016-11-15T15:55:00  <thermoman> If there was an official patch I would like to test that
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296 2016-11-15T16:00:12  <thermoman> do I need to open an issue on github or how will this be handled the best way?
297 2016-11-15T16:00:27  <jonasschnelli> thermoman: Yes. Opening an issue would be good.
298 2016-11-15T16:00:42  <jonasschnelli> I guess we should patch this, though not sure what priority this will have
299 2016-11-15T16:01:19  <jonasschnelli> Comments are used rarely, and even more rarely with non-utf8 compatible chars.
300 2016-11-15T16:01:28  <jonasschnelli> But feel free to fix it. :)
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325 2016-11-15T17:44:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/018a4eb120dc...6eeac6e30d65
326 2016-11-15T17:44:33  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 20c3215 Gregory Sanders: credit values are CAmount
327 2016-11-15T17:44:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6eeac6e Pieter Wuille: Merge #9164: [trivial] credit values are CAmount...
328 2016-11-15T17:44:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #9164: [trivial] credit values are CAmount (master...intcredit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9164
329 2016-11-15T18:01:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] instagibbs opened pull request #9165: [trivial] SendMoney: use already-calculated balance (master...triv-curbal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9165
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332 2016-11-15T18:12:45  <thermoman> jonasschnelli, luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9166
333 2016-11-15T18:14:46  <timothy> drizzt@liara ~ % bitcoin-cli listtransactions '*' 2
334 2016-11-15T18:14:47  <timothy> [
335 2016-11-15T18:14:47  <timothy> ]
336 2016-11-15T18:14:47  <timothy> drizzt@liara ~ %
337 2016-11-15T18:14:55  <sipa> sdaftuar: i have a branch sharedblock2 (which is rebased on top of #8589) that includes making the orphanmap and ATMT use shared_ptrs
338 2016-11-15T18:14:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8589 | Inline CTxInWitness inside CTxIn (on top of #8580) by sipa · Pull Request #8589 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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340 2016-11-15T18:15:30  <sdaftuar> sipa: thanks, i found it yesterday and am working off it
341 2016-11-15T18:15:42  <thermoman> timothy: empty wallet?
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352 2016-11-15T20:30:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] morcos opened pull request #9167: IsAllFromMe (master...IsAllFromMe) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9167
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354 2016-11-15T20:46:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mrbandrews opened pull request #9168: [qa] add assert_raises_message to check specific error message (master...ba-assert-raises) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9168
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356 2016-11-15T21:14:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theuni opened pull request #9169: build: fix qt5.7 build under macOS (master...fix-objcxx-std) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9169
357 2016-11-15T21:15:29  <cfields> morcos: ^^
358 2016-11-15T21:20:53  <morcos> cfields: thanks.  i did a make clean and re-autogen/configure.  if that's sufficient to test it, it works
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361 2016-11-15T21:22:23  <cfields> morcos: assuming bitcoin-qt build succeeds after that, then yes, that's enough
362 2016-11-15T21:22:36  <morcos> cfields: ha ha. yes.
363 2016-11-15T21:23:01  <cfields> great, thanks for the quick test
364 2016-11-15T21:23:37  <morcos> cfields: pretty please PR the prevector move commit too...
365 2016-11-15T21:24:13  <cfields> morcos: uhm, sure. I never fully cleaned it up, but I suppose I can pr the bit that's already done
366 2016-11-15T21:24:25  <cfields> morcos: though I should think it would matter much less after the shared_ptr merge?
367 2016-11-15T21:25:47  <cfields> #9125, that is
368 2016-11-15T21:25:48  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9125 | Make CBlock a vector of shared_ptr of CTransactions by sipa · Pull Request #9125 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
369 2016-11-15T21:25:56  <morcos> i can try again, but it has consistently made a difference to me, not sure its just in txs that it matters
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371 2016-11-15T21:31:20  <cfields> morcos: ok, i'll PR a very simplified version
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374 2016-11-15T22:06:56  <cfields> morcos: top two commits here: https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/commits/prevector-move
375 2016-11-15T22:07:38  <cfields> morcos: mind seeing if you get the same speedup from those? I'd be much more comfortable PRing that than the set of much bigger changes
376 2016-11-15T22:08:37  <morcos> cfields: no problem, but will have to wait til tomorrow now...
377 2016-11-15T22:09:06  <cfields> morcos: np
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