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137 2017-06-20T06:02:01  <jonasschnelli> travis cancels jobs: " This job ran on our Trusty, sudo: required environment which will be updated on Wednesday, June 21st. Please add group: edge to your .travis.yml file to try the new images and check our blog for more details about this update."
138 2017-06-20T06:03:05  <jonasschnelli> Seems only here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10633
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145 2017-06-20T06:31:39  <luke-jr> has anyone tested that? will edge just work? :x
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153 2017-06-20T07:47:22  <MarcoFalke> jup, tested it a few days ago. No issues
154 2017-06-20T07:50:20  <MarcoFalke> btw jonasschnelli. Do you think would be hard to get machine readable urls for your gitian builds?
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156 2017-06-20T07:50:41  <MarcoFalke> Maybe /nightly/2017/06/19/ or /nightly/latest/
157 2017-06-20T07:50:53  <jonasschnelli> Yes. I can do that...
158 2017-06-20T07:51:07  <jonasschnelli> I already did that for PRs: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/build/PR/10628
159 2017-06-20T07:51:16  <MarcoFalke> Awesome, thx.
160 2017-06-20T07:51:19  <jonasschnelli> (redirects to the newest build id of that PR)
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164 2017-06-20T08:02:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dimitris-t closed pull request #10634: Fixed typos in optionsdialog.ui (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10634
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167 2017-06-20T08:03:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dimitris-t closed pull request #10635: Fixed typo in rpcconsole.cpp (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10635
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169 2017-06-20T08:12:30  <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: okay. Works: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/build/nightly/latest
170 2017-06-20T08:12:35  <jonasschnelli> https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/build/nightly/2017/06/17
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196 2017-06-20T11:57:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #10636: [qa] util: Check return code after closing bitcoind proc (master...Mf1706-qaTraceback) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10636
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236 2017-06-20T16:59:57  <sturles> If I add a watchonly address to Bitcoin Core, and it receives a transaction output, and add the private key for the same address later.  Will the output become spendable without a rescan?
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238 2017-06-20T17:30:39  <ryanofsky_> sturles, it should unless there is a bug
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243 2017-06-20T18:02:40  <sturles> ryanofsky_: Cool!  I'll try to use it with pull request #9728 in a semi-hot wallet.  Just add private keys as required to fill up.  Avoiding a bitcoin transaction to refill the hot wallet.
244 2017-06-20T18:02:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9728 | Can create Watch Only HD wallet with -hdwatchonly by NicolasDorier · Pull Request #9728 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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247 2017-06-20T18:09:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #10637: Coin Selection with Murch's algorithm (master...bnb-coin-select) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10637
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250 2017-06-20T18:26:18  <instagibbs> sturles, if you're doing p2sh you may need to pass the redeemscript as well
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253 2017-06-20T18:38:41  <sipa_> cfields: any idea how it is possible that passing libbitcoin_util before libbitcoin_wallet on the linking cmdline works?
254 2017-06-20T18:38:48  <instagibbs> achow101, so your PR doesn't touch the looping or target behavior, just coin selection itself?
255 2017-06-20T18:38:53  <achow101> yes
256 2017-06-20T18:39:23  <sipa_> cfields: wallet.cpp uses FastRandomContext's constructor, which is defined in libbitcoin_util...
257 2017-06-20T18:39:36  <achow101> instagibbs: It needs to use effective values and access to fee rate so I only borrowed a few parts of your effective value PR for those
258 2017-06-20T18:40:43  <cfields> sipa_: they're all tangled up. iirc last time i checked, there was no ordering that wasn't circular.
259 2017-06-20T18:41:00  <cfields> i worked out how it was working at that point, let me refresh my memory
260 2017-06-20T18:42:45  <sipa_> but we're not passing any grouping to the linker, so it shouldn't be able to resolve circular dependencies?
261 2017-06-20T18:43:00  <sipa_> i can swap util and wallet
262 2017-06-20T18:43:06  <sipa_> but there are other pairs that i can't swap
263 2017-06-20T18:45:38  <instagibbs> achow101, trying to decide how dangerous that is on its own. If it results in no change, but too high of a fee due to the looping, we'll dump all that value into fee :(
264 2017-06-20T18:45:54  <instagibbs> knapsack specializes in exact matches, so red flags are going up for me
265 2017-06-20T18:46:56  <sipa_> instagibbs: the idea is that the extra fee will not be more than what it would cost to create + spend change
266 2017-06-20T18:47:09  <instagibbs> sipa_, hold on let me get the issue im speaking of
267 2017-06-20T18:47:18  <sipa_> ok
268 2017-06-20T18:47:24  <instagibbs> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10247
269 2017-06-20T18:47:38  <instagibbs> basically what happens is if it loops it keeps accumulating what it thinks is "enough absolute fee"
270 2017-06-20T18:47:56  <instagibbs> so on subsequent attempts the number of inputs may shrink dramatically, but still results in large fee
271 2017-06-20T18:48:06  <instagibbs> if there's a change output, we handle it gracefully now by bumping the change
272 2017-06-20T18:48:10  <instagibbs> no change, we still dump
273 2017-06-20T18:48:19  <instagibbs> I attempted to address this in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10333
274 2017-06-20T18:48:44  <sipa_> instagibbs: i see
275 2017-06-20T18:49:05  <achow101> interesting. how would we know if that's a problem with the different coin selection?
276 2017-06-20T18:49:18  <sipa_> that sounds like an existing issue that we need to fix, and perhaps the knapsack coin selection could make it worse
277 2017-06-20T18:49:20  <instagibbs> well it only rears it's head on "exact matches"
278 2017-06-20T18:49:24  <instagibbs> yep that ^
279 2017-06-20T18:49:59  <instagibbs> imo #10333 is pretty easy to review, and is 0.15 possible if people start reviewing
280 2017-06-20T18:50:00  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10333 | [wallet] fee fixes: always create change, adjust value, and p… by instagibbs · Pull Request #10333 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
281 2017-06-20T18:51:23  <achow101> instagibbs: so since the new coin selection is supposed to get "exact matches" more frequently, we could be running into the high fees problem?
282 2017-06-20T18:52:12  <instagibbs> if it loops a few times, failing to "get enough", then when it does, it's more likely to get an exact match, then vastly overpay fees. This tends to happen on wallets with lots of utxos
283 2017-06-20T18:52:56  <instagibbs> the PR you got the commits from should also fix this issue more holistically, but larger review surface
284 2017-06-20T18:56:05  <cfields> sipa_: just finished what I was working on. looking and refreshing now.
285 2017-06-20T18:57:13  <achow101> instagibbs: I thought about taking the entire rewritten loop from the effective value PR but I wasn't sure if that would break anything or use stuff that you changed that I didn't grab
286 2017-06-20T19:05:13  <cfields> sipa_: ah, i believe it works because of the libs already added. eg. FastRandomContext was already emitted by util for server
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288 2017-06-20T19:06:37  <cfields> (I recently discussed a strategy for nuking wallet's deps on server with jonasschnelli, i believe he's begun PRing some of the necessary changes)
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290 2017-06-20T19:14:12  <jonasschnelli> cfields: But that PR is a very first beginning... it would require much more work
291 2017-06-20T19:15:31  <cfields> jonasschnelli: sure. I just wanted to point out that there's at least _some_ desire to work out the dependency mess :)
292 2017-06-20T19:15:47  <jonasschnelli> Yes. Lets clean this up
293 2017-06-20T19:19:12  <cfields> jonasschnelli: what's the PR you've already opened? I need to make sure to review/ack
294 2017-06-20T19:19:18  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: at least based on the design I understand, when achows' patch does something there will be no looping because by design it picked a solution that had enough fee.
295 2017-06-20T19:19:40  <jonasschnelli> cfields: #10517
296 2017-06-20T19:19:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10517 | Factor out CCoinsView based AreInputsStandard/IsWitnessStandard by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #10517 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
297 2017-06-20T19:19:48  <jonasschnelli> (needs rebase)
298 2017-06-20T19:19:50  <cfields> jonasschnelli: thanks
299 2017-06-20T19:20:54  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: it takes the original target feerate as an argument and does all its calculations with effective fees, and only allows overpayment to the extent that costs equal or less than the future change spend that it avoided.
300 2017-06-20T19:21:28  <instagibbs> gmaxwell, ok let me re-read, because that's what my PR is supposed to be doing, heh
301 2017-06-20T19:22:13  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: no, your PR does it on everything; not just in the exact match case. Which I raised the dust inflation concern above. (which it seems no one is interested in doing anything about...)
302 2017-06-20T19:22:55  <gmaxwell> This doesn't have the dust inflation concern, since it only has an effect when there is no change (thus no increase in the number of outputs).
303 2017-06-20T19:25:03  <sipa_> cfields: FastRandomContext iirc is only in libbitcoin_util... how is wallet able to use it? wallet is passed later on the cmdline
304 2017-06-20T19:25:21  <gmaxwell> To reiterate: the concern I have with your effective rate change is that it will make wallets be unlikely to select low effective rate coins and never select negative effective rate coins. But will still create change, which seems almost certian to cause an increase in UTXO set bloat.  And this effect is mostly tangential from the problem you're trying to solve, which is related to non-convexity
305 2017-06-20T19:25:27  <gmaxwell>  of the fee search.
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307 2017-06-20T19:26:06  <instagibbs> gmaxwell, I removed that a long time ago
308 2017-06-20T19:26:40  <instagibbs> anyways, let met do a fuller review, I'm getting myself turned around
309 2017-06-20T19:27:32  <cfields> sipa_: it's used by net_processing in server, which marks it as undefined. Then util resolves it. Then it's already resolved for wallet.
310 2017-06-20T19:28:25  <sipa_> cfields: ugh
311 2017-06-20T19:28:28  <sipa_> ok
312 2017-06-20T19:29:08  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: ah, I had lost track of the fact that you had PRed a change that addressed the overpayment without doing the effective rate thing.
313 2017-06-20T19:29:25  <achow101> I'm confused :(
314 2017-06-20T19:29:59  <instagibbs> achow101, wallet code makes people scared and afraid, don't worry
315 2017-06-20T19:30:21  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: this new PR creates dust change. :(
316 2017-06-20T19:31:08  <instagibbs> gmaxwell, it tries "relatively hard" to avoid making something less than MIN_FINAL_CHANGE
317 2017-06-20T19:31:21  <instagibbs> unfortunately without something smarter we just have to pick something and shoot for it
318 2017-06-20T19:31:31  <instagibbs> open to ideas though
319 2017-06-20T19:32:45  <achow101> gmaxwell: which PR creates dust change? Mine?
320 2017-06-20T19:32:57  <gmaxwell> achow101: instagibbs
321 2017-06-20T19:32:59  <instagibbs> #10333
322 2017-06-20T19:33:00  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10333 | [wallet] fee fixes: always create change, adjust value, and p… by instagibbs · Pull Request #10333 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
323 2017-06-20T19:33:04  <achow101> ah, ok
324 2017-06-20T19:34:26  <instagibbs> achow101, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10333/files#diff-b2bb174788c7409b671c46ccc86034bdR2630
325 2017-06-20T19:34:28  <gmaxwell> It could use murch's hurestic to cut that down further. (Murch's hurestic is that you can throw away change if it's less that FeeRate*(34+4+1+34+74)  (cost to create and spend that change output).
326 2017-06-20T19:34:55  <instagibbs> so there's the "I will enver make an output this small" level which could be that ^
327 2017-06-20T19:34:57  <gmaxwell> (with adjustments for different script types)
328 2017-06-20T19:35:03  <instagibbs> then there's also the "I'm willing to try again"
329 2017-06-20T19:35:11  <instagibbs> and get something bigger or an exact match
330 2017-06-20T19:35:29  <instagibbs> toss vs rety, I mean
331 2017-06-20T19:36:12  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: the patch achow submitted is fairly close to guarenteed to give an 'exact' (uses that hurestic) match if one is possible.
332 2017-06-20T19:37:56  <instagibbs> so if we simply fail to get an exact match we should likely grab some buffer more we want as change, whatever that is
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335 2017-06-20T19:43:58  <gmaxwell> achow101: what instagibbs is talking about at this start of this conversation is related to how fees are handled by selecting coins, finding we need to pay a larger fee than we selected, then going back with a bigger target.  What can happen now is that on one iteration you select a zillion inputs, decide you need a lot of fee, then go back, but this time your higher targets means you select onl
336 2017-06-20T19:44:04  <gmaxwell> y a couple inputs, but you got close enough to your fee-inflated-target that you do not include a change output... and then you overpay fee.
337 2017-06-20T19:45:10  <gmaxwell> achow101: and I think what you are intending to accomplish is completely orthorgonal with that defect. (perhaps the implementation isn't-- but the idea is)
338 2017-06-20T19:45:35  <achow101> gmaxwell: oh, ok.
339 2017-06-20T19:46:48  <achow101> gmaxwell: as the implementation is right now, I don't think it will exit the loop if a BnB algo passes though
340 2017-06-20T19:47:40  <achow101> also, something else to consider is if the BnB algo fails on one loop so it falls back to the original algo, but then on the next pass (with the fee regtarget thing) the BnB algo passes. I'm not sure what would happen in that case
341 2017-06-20T19:49:55  <instagibbs> lots of fee, I think
342 2017-06-20T19:51:26  <gmaxwell> achow101: thats the "perhaps the implemetation isn't-- but the idea is" part.  Probably the BnB should just be skipped after the first iteration.
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344 2017-06-20T20:04:43  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: I think your 10333 is more attractive in light of achow's PR, assuming they were correctly combined.  Since his PR will do a pretty good job of finding a changless solution, if there is one, I think it's fine to make the rest of the behavior just assume there will be change.   Though perhaps I gave achow bad advice on the integration.  I suggested just replacing out the selectcoins p
345 2017-06-20T20:04:49  <gmaxwell> art in order to avoid having to handle coincontrol and fee-from-amount.
346 2017-06-20T20:05:55  <gmaxwell> combined naievely it will be pretty bad.
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354 2017-06-20T20:42:59  <cfields> jonasschnelli: ping. still around?
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356 2017-06-20T20:44:55  <gaf_> is any reason to worry about segwitx2 has about 77~ or who cares about it, because this donest affecting anything?
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360 2017-06-20T20:52:45  <instagibbs> gmaxwell, if we limit the BnB stuff to the first step, this removes any need for 10333 to correct any additional bad behavior
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366 2017-06-20T21:02:50  <ProfMac> If not here, where can I discuss this?
367 2017-06-20T21:02:53  <ProfMac> I have a set of directories, sandbox-1493974463, sandbox-1494226733, and the like.  I have set up a git server, and put the earliest sandbox under git control following, e.g., https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-on-the-Server-Setting-Up-the-Server  Now I want to move to the next sandbox.  I assume I need to do git {init, remote add,  ...} but I am a little wobbly about "pull"  The goal is to add the changes in the 2nd sandb
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370 2017-06-20T21:26:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10638: [rpc] Clarify pblock assumption via an assertion (master...nnonce) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10638
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373 2017-06-20T21:29:45  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: hm? perhaps I don't get your comment.  Are you saying 10333 is not needed post achow making his pr run only on the first step?
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375 2017-06-20T21:39:15  <instagibbs> gmaxwell, I don't think it's needed for the first BnB run, but just as needed otherwise as before
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379 2017-06-20T21:50:11  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: okay agreed.
380 2017-06-20T21:51:14  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: question I have is with all those changes, should the exact match attempt just be taken out of the loop?  it will mean duplicating recipent pays fes logic.
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382 2017-06-20T21:59:18  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: I was also thinking of another strategy for your loop logic that I think may be better and more clear:  target=amount; 1. Assume change. Attempt selection. if it fails is there a saved solution? if so return that.  Compute fees? if not increase target to current fees, goto 1.  Can change be elimiated (<murch hurestic) if so do so and return solution. If not, is the change above the M
383 2017-06-20T21:59:24  <gmaxwell> IN_CHANGE? if so then stop and take that one. If not, save the solution, and target=max(amount+fee+min_change, target*1.01) and goto 1.
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385 2017-06-20T22:00:23  <gmaxwell> so basically it guarentees the target goes up with every iteration, and only gives up and uses the dusty solution if its already tried raising the target beyond the wallet's capacity.
386 2017-06-20T22:01:36  <gmaxwell> it doesn't make any real attempt to avoid change, since I assume achow101's first step handles that.. though if it happens to find itself with an acceptably changeless solution then it will accept it.
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410 2017-06-20T22:17:03  <instagibbs> "should the exact match attempt just be taken out of the loop" had this exact thought. It's something to look at imo.
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413 2017-06-20T22:19:14  <instagibbs> what would a "saved solution" be in this case?
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415 2017-06-20T22:19:47  <gmaxwell> saved solution would just be the transaction, one where the solution was viable but had non-eliminatable change under the min_change target.
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418 2017-06-20T22:20:27  <gmaxwell> so we keep looking (with ever higher targets) after it, hoping to get something that passes, but if we don't we can return the dusty one.
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422 2017-06-20T22:22:52  <instagibbs> ah, so if < dust, accept, < min_change, save and try again higher, loop
423 2017-06-20T22:23:35  <gmaxwell> yea, so long as the loop increases enough each iteration it'll terminate in acceptable time.
424 2017-06-20T22:24:51  <gmaxwell> so, e.g. when the wallet doesn't have enough in it to meet min_change you'll go for that the next iteration, find your selection fails, then take the slightly dusty one from the last go.
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442 2017-06-20T23:17:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c38f540298f0...d636f3943d39
443 2017-06-20T23:17:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4265bf3 practicalswift: Remove unreachable or otherwise redundant code
444 2017-06-20T23:17:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d636f39 Pieter Wuille: Merge #10536: Remove unreachable or otherwise redundant code...
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446 2017-06-20T23:17:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #10536: Remove unreachable or otherwise redundant code (master...unreachable) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10536
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