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   3 2017-12-21T00:07:33  <valentinewallace> \query jonasschnelli Hi, you commented on one of my PRs yesterday. Are you available for a question?
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   8 2017-12-21T00:17:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #11921: Fixing env variables/arguments in OpenBSD build instructions (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11921
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  28 2017-12-21T01:08:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #11967: Add script to test the dns seeds (master...2017/12/seed_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11967
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  34 2017-12-21T01:13:29  <bigboytimc> hey got a quick code question for you guys
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  41 2017-12-21T01:19:33  <meshcollider> bigboytimc: "don't ask to ask, just ask" - pieter ;)
  42 2017-12-21T01:20:27  <bigboytimc> haha sounds good, my question is just that I'm looking through the source code and I'm trying to find where the segwit extended block structure is
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  44 2017-12-21T01:20:50  <bigboytimc> I figured it'd be in primitives with block.h, but there's nothing there that looks like it
  45 2017-12-21T01:21:00  <bigboytimc> so I guess I'm just wondering where the extended block is in the code
  46 2017-12-21T01:21:08  <echeveria> 'extended block'?
  47 2017-12-21T01:21:23  <meshcollider> what do you mean by an extended block, the block structure hasn't really changed
  48 2017-12-21T01:22:04  <bigboytimc> doesn't segwit include an additional structure that isn't on the blockchain?
  49 2017-12-21T01:22:10  <gmaxwell> no.
  50 2017-12-21T01:22:28  <bigboytimc> like the change involved moving some parts of the block into a separate structure to add more transactions?
  51 2017-12-21T01:22:34  <gmaxwell> the blocks are totally unchanged.
  52 2017-12-21T01:22:38  <gmaxwell> bigboytimc: nope.
  53 2017-12-21T01:23:04  <gmaxwell> There is a new field in transactions, called the witness field, which is after the outputs and before the nlocktime.
  54 2017-12-21T01:23:28  <meshcollider> bigboytimc: transactions are serialized and hashed in a slightly different way now, but they are still included in blocks the same as they used to be
  55 2017-12-21T01:23:29  <photonclock_> How well is Bitcoin holding up to the mempool overflow? Is everything working as expected?
  56 2017-12-21T01:23:44  <gmaxwell> New nodes know how to strip out this witness field from the transactions befor passing them along to old unupgraded nodes.
  57 2017-12-21T01:24:03  <gmaxwell> photonclock_: yup. things are working very well.
  58 2017-12-21T01:24:06  <bigboytimc> interesting, I guess reading about segwit made it sound like they took the witness stuff and added it to a different structure
  59 2017-12-21T01:24:16  <gmaxwell> bigboytimc: there is a lot of misinformation out there.
  60 2017-12-21T01:24:54  <photonclock_> gmax I know this is not the room for general Bitcoin chat - can I chat you up on the Bitcoin channel?
  61 2017-12-21T01:25:22  <meshcollider> bigboytimc: there are a number of bad actors who like to mislead people into thinking segwit does things which it doesn't, mostly because they themselves are uneducated. Try http://segwit.org/
  62 2017-12-21T01:26:05  <bigboytimc> thanks!
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 114 2017-12-21T02:07:51  <meshcollider> for this command line arg registration thing, whats the cleanest way to have a pointer to a variable whose type is not known currently
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 118 2017-12-21T02:09:55  <meshcollider> or I should just use UniValue for the globals
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 120 2017-12-21T02:10:40  <instagibbs> did someone say command line registration of args? meshcollider pointer to PR/issue?
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 122 2017-12-21T02:11:57  <meshcollider> instagibbs: working on it atm, was discussed here: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2017-12-14/?msg=94674799&page=9
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 125 2017-12-21T02:12:20  <meshcollider> issues 11819 and 1044 are directly related
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 127 2017-12-21T02:12:37  <meshcollider> still solidifying the approach in my head atm
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 149 2017-12-21T03:20:53  <jonasschnelli> valentinewallace: sure.. shoot your Q
 150 2017-12-21T03:24:04  <sipa> jonasschnelli: why are you awake? :)
 151 2017-12-21T03:26:54  <jonasschnelli> sipa: I'm usually awake at 17:26. :)
 152 2017-12-21T03:27:18  <jonasschnelli> Don't assume I'm always in CH. :)
 153 2017-12-21T03:28:28  <sipa> oh.
 154 2017-12-21T03:28:50  <sipa> hawaii?
 155 2017-12-21T03:28:56  <jonasschnelli> Jup
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 164 2017-12-21T03:33:43  <SomeBuggyCode> Hello
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 166 2017-12-21T03:37:38  <SomeBuggyCode> I just wanted to ask and see if there might be anywhere to start besides reading the bitcoin docs. Is there any good way to start contributing? Thank you
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 168 2017-12-21T03:41:47  <jonasschnelli> SomeBuggyCode: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues
 169 2017-12-21T03:42:34  <SomeBuggyCode> True enough
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 171 2017-12-21T03:43:03  <jonasschnelli> Look also for the "good first issue" tag:
 172 2017-12-21T03:43:03  <jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22good+first+issue%22
 173 2017-12-21T03:43:47  <SomeBuggyCode> Oh wow
 174 2017-12-21T03:43:54  <SomeBuggyCode> Didn't know about that
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 227 2017-12-21T05:34:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Varunram opened pull request #11969: logs: Improve "mempool min fee not met" error (master...mempoolfix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11969
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 231 2017-12-21T05:49:57  <mcorbettsr> hello all having prob with core 0.15.1
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 233 2017-12-21T05:54:03  <jonasschnelli> meshcollider: maybe #bitcoin?
 234 2017-12-21T05:54:20  <jonasschnelli> sry, mean mcorbettsr but he left
 235 2017-12-21T05:54:56  <meshcollider> heh all good, I never understand why people ask questions and then leave before they get a response
 236 2017-12-21T05:55:25  <gmaxwell> maybe he solved his problem
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 925 2017-12-21T08:07:18  <ryanofsky> jonasschnelli, i think if you're using pcoinsdbview you don't need cs_main, but if you using pcoinsTip you do
 926 2017-12-21T08:08:02  <jonasschnelli> thanks ryanofsky
 927 2017-12-21T08:08:38  <ryanofsky> i was also wondering if #9306 might be useful for what you are doing
 928 2017-12-21T08:08:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9306 | Make CCoinsViewCache::Cursor() return latest data by ryanofsky · Pull Request #9306 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 932 2017-12-21T08:12:14  <jonasschnelli> ryanofsky: I'm implementing UTXO scans (provide pubkeys, xpubs, get unspents, total, etc.)
 933 2017-12-21T08:15:13  <jonasschnelli> ryanofsky: Can you explain the benefits of 9306?
 934 2017-12-21T08:17:18  <ryanofsky> 9306 just lets you scan pcoinsTip instead of pcoinsdbview. pcoinsTip has current utxo data, pcoinsdbview has older utxo data from the time of the last flush
 935 2017-12-21T08:18:34  <jonasschnelli> If you FlushStateToDisk(); and then loop with the curser will give you the same results?
 936 2017-12-21T08:19:23  <ryanofsky> yeah, that should basically be the same
 937 2017-12-21T08:19:56  <jonasschnelli> Are there any performance implications/benefits?
 938 2017-12-21T08:20:07  <ryanofsky> meshcollider, for command line option registration, can't you require the type of the option when registering it? this would let you enforce the type during parsing
 939 2017-12-21T08:20:09  <jonasschnelli> Scanning the whole set takes a couplf of mins here
 940 2017-12-21T08:20:28  <jonasschnelli> *couple
 941 2017-12-21T08:20:48  <ryanofsky> jonasschnelli, i don't know the performance tradeoffs. if calling FlushStateToDisk() is an option though, I would go with that because it seems simpler
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 943 2017-12-21T08:22:40  <jonasschnelli> ryanofsky: I'll open a PR soon (next week maybe) and happy if you have a look for possible optimisations...
 944 2017-12-21T08:22:42  <jonasschnelli> thanks
 945 2017-12-21T08:23:12  <ryanofsky> sounds good
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 947 2017-12-21T08:28:22  <sipa> flushing just to perform a wallet operation sounds like sething we should avoid
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 949 2017-12-21T08:30:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/604e08c83cf5...7a11ba7e01f3
 950 2017-12-21T08:30:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b798f9b Wladimir J. van der Laan: contrib: New clang patch for install_db4...
 951 2017-12-21T08:30:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c0298b0 Wladimir J. van der Laan: contrib: Make X=Y arguments work in install_db4...
 952 2017-12-21T08:30:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d95c83d Wladimir J. van der Laan: contrib: FreeBSD compatibility in install_db4.sh...
 953 2017-12-21T08:31:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11945: Improve BSD compatibility of contrib/install_db4.sh (master...2017_12_contrib_bsd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11945
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 972 2017-12-21T09:49:07  <meshcollider> ryanofsky yeah that's what I thought, but I can't think of how to pass a type as a parameter in the registration
 973 2017-12-21T09:50:05  <meshcollider> Without using a variant or univalue or whatever
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 975 2017-12-21T09:51:38  <ryanofsky> is registration just declaring a global variable? if so the type should just be part of the variable type, maybe a template argument
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 992 2017-12-21T10:24:17  <meshcollider> But you have to pass a pointer to the global variable to the arg manager right, so I'm just confused as to the best way of accepting a pointer to a variable of unknown type
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1034 2017-12-21T11:44:29  <ryanofsky> meshcollider, probably through subclassing. you could have list<unique_ptr<Option>>, with IntOption, BoolOption, StringOption subclasses, for example
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1042 2017-12-21T12:03:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 8 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7a11ba7e01f3...711d16ca4a91
1043 2017-12-21T12:03:53  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cdc260a MeshCollider: Add GetCScripts to CBasicKeyStore
1044 2017-12-21T12:03:53  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b702ae8 MeshCollider: Add CScripts to dumpwallet RPC
1045 2017-12-21T12:03:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ef0c730 MeshCollider: Add scripts to importwallet RPC
1046 2017-12-21T12:04:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11667: Add scripts to dumpwallet RPC (master...201710_dumpwallet_scripts) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11667
1047 2017-12-21T12:05:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #11970: Add test coverage for bitcoin-cli multiwallet calls (master...pr/mcli) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11970
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1050 2017-12-21T12:14:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10051: adhere to `-whitelist` for outbound connection (master...whitelist-outbound) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10051
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1060 2017-12-21T12:49:55  <DSidH> When creating a transaction by hand, how do I decide the scriptPubKey contents? Do I just look at the first byte of the pubKeyHash and decide that its either P2PKH or P2SH ?
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1068 2017-12-21T13:12:31  <DSidH> nvm: got the answer. (yes)
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1083 2017-12-21T13:47:21  <Varunram> If I may ask, what's the reason in some of the license banners being old? (e.g. bitcoinconsensus.h has a 2009-2016 banner)
1084 2017-12-21T13:49:02  <wumpus> Varunram: usually we do one "update copyright years" PR at the end of the yera
1085 2017-12-21T13:49:08  <wumpus> if the file is touched that year
1086 2017-12-21T13:49:27  <Varunram> was just curious, thanks!
1087 2017-12-21T13:51:34  <wumpus> it's certainly allowed to update the copyright year of a file together with your change, but almost no one bothers to do that, and it might even result in merge conflicts/rebases as it's a single hotspot per file. There's just no urgency in updating them.
1088 2017-12-21T13:54:05  <Varunram> yep, got the "don't update copyright until the file is changed" part, but just wanted to know the rationale behind it :)
1089 2017-12-21T14:01:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Varunram opened pull request #11971: [docs]: include README with binary releases (master...bindoc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11971
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1143 2017-12-21T16:36:07  <ilanosortap> Hey guys, i would like to contribute to this project. I understand that the first step should be to build it on my system, how can i do so?
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1146 2017-12-21T16:37:38  <ilanosortap> Also, since i am beginner how can i choose bugs to work on
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1149 2017-12-21T16:40:05  <mikestovlensky> Anyone here?
1150 2017-12-21T16:40:12  <mikestovlensky> I've got a quick question
1151 2017-12-21T16:43:09  <ryanofsky> ilanosortap, list of good first issues is https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?q=label%3A%22good+first+issue%22, build instructions https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/README.md
1152 2017-12-21T16:44:47  <mikestovlensky> Hi Ryan
1153 2017-12-21T16:45:09  <mikestovlensky> Have you had any contact with the people at Coinbase about when they plan to support Segwit?
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1155 2017-12-21T16:49:13  <BlueMatt> mikestovlensky: dont think this is the place, #bitcoin
1156 2017-12-21T16:49:23  <ryanofsky> sorry, i don't know anything and i don't think coinbase developers are active here
1157 2017-12-21T16:49:28  <BlueMatt> also, answer is probably no
1158 2017-12-21T16:50:40  <mikestovlensky> I asked Coinbase, they just ignore me
1159 2017-12-21T16:50:48  <mikestovlensky> Just checking in case they have a line in with you folks
1160 2017-12-21T16:51:25  <wumpus> no, not at all
1161 2017-12-21T16:51:40  <mikestovlensky> thanks folks. Keep coding ahead. We'll win this battle. Roger Ver and his cronies got nothing on the hard work you lot are doing
1162 2017-12-21T16:52:11  <mikestovlensky> The community believes in you guys. Your vision is the way forward. I'll leave you lot to plug back in. Merry Xmas in advance
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1164 2017-12-21T16:52:21  <wumpus> thank you, same to you
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1169 2017-12-21T17:01:42  <ilanosortap> Thanks a lot @ryanofsky
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1175 2017-12-21T17:16:00  <goatpig> Is there a version of SPV that keeps track a record of the last 1000 blocks or so?
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1177 2017-12-21T17:18:07  <wumpus> no, there is no SPV mode in bitcoin core at all at the moment
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1180 2017-12-21T17:18:44  <goatpig> oh, what about pruned mode?
1181 2017-12-21T17:19:00  <wumpus> there's https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9483 which could use review and testing
1182 2017-12-21T17:19:07  <wumpus> yes, there is a pruned mode
1183 2017-12-21T17:19:42  <goatpig> thanks
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1201 2017-12-21T18:13:12  <luke-jr> goatpig: pruned mode isn't SPV
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1203 2017-12-21T18:14:32  <goatpig> i know, im just looking into alternate node modes and thinking forward
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1209 2017-12-21T18:29:16  <jonasschnelli> goatpig: what are you building?
1210 2017-12-21T18:29:37  <jonasschnelli> IMO the most straight forward way if you want to run multiple wallets away from a Core node would be an RPC proxy.
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1212 2017-12-21T18:30:39  <eck> can i get any book recommendations for practical/applied cryptography for an engineer who has an undergraduate or so level of background in mathematics
1213 2017-12-21T18:30:40  <jonasschnelli> The (new) wallet app could hold keys, and therefore do the signing. That app would create new wallets via RPC (proxy) (which would create a watch-only-wallet on your node).
1214 2017-12-21T18:30:59  <jonasschnelli> Which would also work with pruned peers.
1215 2017-12-21T18:31:21  <jonasschnelli> So a single pruned peer node could server (maybe) hundreds of wallets.. no index required
1216 2017-12-21T18:31:31  *** intcat has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1217 2017-12-21T18:31:38  <jonasschnelli> Backup recovery is only possible via UTXO-set sweep
1218 2017-12-21T18:32:49  <goatpig> not building anything yet
1219 2017-12-21T18:32:52  <goatpig> working on my supernode
1220 2017-12-21T18:33:11  <goatpig> thinking of a hybrid mode where clients bootstrap on a public supernode then run off of a lite bitcoin node
1221 2017-12-21T18:33:31  *** laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1222 2017-12-21T18:36:35  <jonasschnelli> goatpig: what is a supernode?
1223 2017-12-21T18:36:47  <jonasschnelli> what is a lite bitcoin node?
1224 2017-12-21T18:37:00  <goatpig> db that tracks all blockchain history undiscrimnately
1225 2017-12-21T18:37:20  <goatpig> can handle any arbitrary history request quickly
1226 2017-12-21T18:37:36  <arubi> I can just feed it any blockchain and it would index it?
1227 2017-12-21T18:37:38  <luke-jr> archive node?
1228 2017-12-21T18:37:47  <goatpig> basically yes
1229 2017-12-21T18:37:47  <jonasschnelli> goatpig: fully indexed? Like an electrum server?
1230 2017-12-21T18:37:48  <luke-jr> oh
1231 2017-12-21T18:37:53  <goatpig> yes
1232 2017-12-21T18:38:05  <arubi> well, sounds like free for all dos
1233 2017-12-21T18:38:07  <jonasschnelli> Okay. Yes. Pretty inefficient if you just want to run a handful of wallets
1234 2017-12-21T18:38:07  <luke-jr> goatpig: so that assumes the blockchains in question are minimally compatible with Bitcoin in some way?
1235 2017-12-21T18:38:13  <jonasschnelli> But ideally for a large backend
1236 2017-12-21T18:38:17  *** webuser8434 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1237 2017-12-21T18:38:33  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: IMO it should be a goal that Core does something similar long-term
1238 2017-12-21T18:38:33  <goatpig> luke-jr: this is targetted at Bitcoin, i dont do alts
1239 2017-12-21T18:38:46  <arubi> oh ^
1240 2017-12-21T18:38:54  <webuser8434> Hey I just wanted to say that I think maybe at some point in the future you guys might want to consider dissolution of the "Core" brand thing. As much I support everything you do and how you do it the whole "Core" idea is Bad and you'll never stop paying price for it and by extension the entire Bitcoin community. It's divisive in its nature and it gives opponents a tangible target. Unless of course it goes away. It was
1241 2017-12-21T18:38:56  <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: Yeah.. I started to change my mind about indexing... it may should be in Core
1242 2017-12-21T18:38:57  <webuser8434> The only label there is is Bitcoin. Maybe use a section of bitcoin.org to communicate development .. whatever, details are not import. Core needs to die for Bitcoin to live!
1243 2017-12-21T18:39:01  <luke-jr> goatpig: that contradicts the "undiscrimnately" part.. invalid blocks aren't Bitcoin
1244 2017-12-21T18:39:03  <goatpig> arubi: any public facing service has to, but this can also be used internally by businesses
1245 2017-12-21T18:39:05  <webuser8434> Ah, and please please release this bloody Segwit yesterday.
1246 2017-12-21T18:39:11  <webuser8434> Good holidays chaps!
1247 2017-12-21T18:39:19  *** webuser8434 has quit IRC
1248 2017-12-21T18:39:19  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: for example, by tracking BCH's chain, we can use "total known hashrate" as a security metric
1249 2017-12-21T18:39:44  <wumpus> eck: 'cryptography' is kind of general
1250 2017-12-21T18:39:45  <arubi> goatpig, I'll have to see what you mean by "any blockchain"
1251 2017-12-21T18:40:12  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: this is useful because if we know hashrate is mining BCH, we know it isn't being used to make an attack reorg chain
1252 2017-12-21T18:40:21  <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: hmm... thats interesting... though "known" hashrate is probably not enough for a security metric... there could be hashrate sitting around in non BCH/BTC chains
1253 2017-12-21T18:40:25  <goatpig> arubi: im not saying that, this is based on Bitcoin, i dont care about other networks/chains
1254 2017-12-21T18:40:36  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: yes, but it's an improvement
1255 2017-12-21T18:40:37  *** Soligor has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1256 2017-12-21T18:41:04  <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: if you attack BTC, then you would just have to "hide" the hashrate until it drops out of BTC hash security algo, then attack with that hidden hashrate
1257 2017-12-21T18:41:26  <eck> wumpus: well eventually i'd like to understand things like pederson commitments, ring signatures etc. at a deeper level, my current understanding is superficial. doesn't necessarily have to be a book that covers those things specifically, but i'd like to build a more solid theory foundation.
1258 2017-12-21T18:41:37  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: it's harder to hide 50%
1259 2017-12-21T18:41:40  <arubi> goatpig, alright, but I don't think I understand the usefulness if it's targeted at bitcoin specifically
1260 2017-12-21T18:41:55  <goatpig> my users run against fullnodes
1261 2017-12-21T18:41:57  <goatpig> this lets you do
1262 2017-12-21T18:42:09  <goatpig> 1 fullnode -> 1 db -> any amount of clients
1263 2017-12-21T18:42:09  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: but for example, if 50% of miners switch to BCH, we wouldn't want to false flag this as a security problem in Bitcoin
1264 2017-12-21T18:42:18  <jonasschnelli> goatpig: I'm currently in favor of a direct backend. Means, you pass in new just created pubkeys in oder to track them (like a wallet), means you don't need block history, means you can run on pruned peers
1265 2017-12-21T18:42:38  *** sis has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1266 2017-12-21T18:42:39  <provoostenator> In theory you could feed the client any sha256 hash from any source and it couuld figure out how much went into it. So you can feed it headers from anything that's completely different from Bitcoin, as long as it has a trustworthy timestamp, and it only cares aobut estimating total work in the world.
1267 2017-12-21T18:42:43  <arubi> goatpig, so the clients aren't fully validating?
1268 2017-12-21T18:42:51  <jonasschnelli> goatpig: if you don't care about the backup recovery, you can run endless wallets on a 4GB pruned peer
1269 2017-12-21T18:43:17  <provoostenator> (known work, and the trustworthy timestamp bit doesn't seem trivial)
1270 2017-12-21T18:43:22  <wumpus> eck: in that case it might be useful to focus on the math underpinning it, group theory etc first
1271 2017-12-21T18:43:40  <goatpig> arubi: maybe some context is lost, the supernode is for armory, i was asking about litghter nodes for users to interface with while they bootstrap off a remote supernode
1272 2017-12-21T18:43:51  *** intcat has quit IRC
1273 2017-12-21T18:44:13  <goatpig> arubi: the armory stack is full node, db, client. im looking into possible ways around that
1274 2017-12-21T18:44:43  <arubi> ah, you're right.  yea I understand now.  I missed context
1275 2017-12-21T18:44:57  <wumpus> eck: one of my fav books in that regard is Victor Shoup's A Computational Introduction to Number Theory and Algebra, it's free for download too at http://shoup.net/ntb/
1276 2017-12-21T18:44:59  *** intcat has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1277 2017-12-21T18:45:08  <eck> great, thank you for the recommendation!
1278 2017-12-21T18:45:14  *** Gloata has quit IRC
1279 2017-12-21T18:45:15  <goatpig> jonasschnelli: as long as i can deliver a good service with armory, Core wouldn't need to work towards that
1280 2017-12-21T18:45:19  <wumpus> eck: besides I really enjoyed "applied cryptoanalsys
1281 2017-12-21T18:45:30  <wumpus> eck: but that's as off topic to cryptocurrencies as it's possible :)
1282 2017-12-21T18:45:44  <eck> i might enjoy it anyway, i'll take a look
1283 2017-12-21T18:46:00  <jonasschnelli> "applied cryptoanalysys"... is that the new word for hacking?
1284 2017-12-21T18:46:03  <jonasschnelli> :-)
1285 2017-12-21T18:46:20  *** nelruk has quit IRC
1286 2017-12-21T18:46:59  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it's about breaking rsa in some edge cases, timing attacks, and breaking various historical ciphers, so yea sort of
1287 2017-12-21T18:47:31  <wumpus> but not the expoitation kind
1288 2017-12-21T18:50:06  <provoostenator> I doubt this is reproducable, but I just managed to crash QT while it was doing a reindex (in order to get -txindex=1 to work). At the next launch it decided to just redownload the whole blockchain...
1289 2017-12-21T18:50:35  <wumpus> eck: http://cryptopals.com/ has some fairly interesting challenges re: applied cryptography things
1290 2017-12-21T18:50:54  <wumpus> provoostenator: uh oh
1291 2017-12-21T18:51:28  <wumpus> provoostenator: are you able to get a traceback?
1292 2017-12-21T18:51:33  <provoostenator> I'm not entirely sure how I managed to crash it. I was running the eclair lightning test suite, so it's possible that that interfered.
1293 2017-12-21T18:51:58  <provoostenator> wumpus: where would I find that?
1294 2017-12-21T18:52:32  <wumpus> well if you ran it in gdb it would be easy, otherwise, did it dump a core file?
1295 2017-12-21T18:53:19  <wumpus> linux also prints the crash eip to dmesg in case of a segmentation fault but I've found that fairly useless usually with ASLR
1296 2017-12-21T18:53:23  *** sis has quit IRC
1297 2017-12-21T18:55:12  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: I guess you ran in the OOM issue? It's still in master AFAIK
1298 2017-12-21T18:55:17  <provoostenator> OSX applications sometimes create crash reports. Maybe that's something we can / need to enable? At least in debug mode.
1299 2017-12-21T18:55:30  <jonasschnelli> The crash report should be stored somewhere
1300 2017-12-21T18:55:37  <provoostenator> I'm on sipa's SegWit branch and I set a pretty high dbcache
1301 2017-12-21T18:56:02  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1302 2017-12-21T18:56:17  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: reindexes on current master causes OOM (on my 32GB machine it did): You need https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11824
1303 2017-12-21T18:56:25  <jonasschnelli> 11824 should probably by hi-prio
1304 2017-12-21T18:56:58  <jonasschnelli> I did a reindex 4-5 days ago and had the OOM crash on debian with 32GB ram
1305 2017-12-21T18:57:07  <provoostenator> Why would an OOM cause a new IDB?
1306 2017-12-21T18:57:10  <provoostenator> IBD
1307 2017-12-21T18:57:10  <provoostenator> IBD
1308 2017-12-21T18:57:34  <promag> does it cause ibd?
1309 2017-12-21T18:57:39  *** jtimon has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1310 2017-12-21T18:57:52  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: I think you may end up with a corrupted db.. even if you souldn't (in theory)
1311 2017-12-21T18:58:03  <provoostenator> Oh I was monitoring memory usage, and that was about 30 GB during the reindex (I have 16 GB physical)
1312 2017-12-21T18:58:21  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: yes. Its fixed in 11824
1313 2017-12-21T18:58:35  <jonasschnelli> reindex in master is currently not usable
1314 2017-12-21T18:58:37  <provoostenator> promag: I don't know if it caused IBD, but it certain started an IBD after this happened
1315 2017-12-21T18:58:39  <wumpus> apparently the validation queue fills memory
1316 2017-12-21T18:58:48  *** LIndvidu_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1317 2017-12-21T18:59:57  <provoostenator> So only a re-index should cause this crash, right? Not the new IBD? I might just let this IBD finish and then do another re-index to see if it crashes, before cherry-picking that fix.
1318 2017-12-21T19:00:03  <promag> guess I'll check 11824 too
1319 2017-12-21T19:00:46  <gmaxwell> it would effect IBD too
1320 2017-12-21T19:00:47  *** Ylbam has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1321 2017-12-21T19:01:05  <luke-jr> depending on bandwidth?
1322 2017-12-21T19:01:09  <jonasschnelli> I haven't looked at the code of 11824 to be honest...
1323 2017-12-21T19:01:11  <cfields> meeting?
1324 2017-12-21T19:01:13  <wumpus> #startmeeting
1325 2017-12-21T19:01:13  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 21 19:01:13 2017 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
1326 2017-12-21T19:01:13  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
1327 2017-12-21T19:01:18  <provoostenator> gmaxwell: ok, that's "great"; saves me time to reproduce. So far it's only using 1.1 GB of RAM in ~2013...
1328 2017-12-21T19:01:19  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag
1329 2017-12-21T19:01:28  <jonasschnelli> hi
1330 2017-12-21T19:01:38  <Chris_Stewart_5> hello
1331 2017-12-21T19:01:40  <provoostenator> hi
1332 2017-12-21T19:01:41  * BlueMatt is betting on low attendance
1333 2017-12-21T19:01:42  <promag> hi o/
1334 2017-12-21T19:01:55  <kanzure> hi.
1335 2017-12-21T19:01:58  <luke-jr> why?
1336 2017-12-21T19:02:08  <gmaxwell> people travling for holidays
1337 2017-12-21T19:02:14  <luke-jr> oh
1338 2017-12-21T19:02:22  <sipa> oh, look, a meeting
1339 2017-12-21T19:02:23  <provoostenator> Without taking their laptop? Lame.
1340 2017-12-21T19:02:26  <promag> or buying gifts
1341 2017-12-21T19:02:34  <wumpus> seems there are enough people to warrant a meeting
1342 2017-12-21T19:02:41  <cfields> hi
1343 2017-12-21T19:02:50  *** LIndividu has quit IRC
1344 2017-12-21T19:03:12  <wumpus> but yes holidays is a good topic, I won't be there for next week and the week after that meeting
1345 2017-12-21T19:03:42  <promag> on my side just want to let know that I've made some progress on the activity feature, hope to submit PR next week
1346 2017-12-21T19:04:39  <jonasschnelli> topics?
1347 2017-12-21T19:04:43  <jtimon> hi
1348 2017-12-21T19:04:50  <wumpus> segwit wallet merge? please? :)
1349 2017-12-21T19:04:57  * sipa is in favor
1350 2017-12-21T19:04:57  <jonasschnelli> Yes. Please
1351 2017-12-21T19:05:00  <gmaxwell> plz
1352 2017-12-21T19:05:03  <jonasschnelli> xmas present
1353 2017-12-21T19:05:09  <sipa> but also please review first
1354 2017-12-21T19:05:10  <wumpus> #topic segwit wallet
1355 2017-12-21T19:05:18  <wumpus> what is left to do?
1356 2017-12-21T19:05:34  <BlueMatt> I think it needs more review still? I havent checked since my last round but there were a number of papercuts that needed fixing
1357 2017-12-21T19:05:34  <sipa> ryanofsky made a nice list of todos in a comment (all for other PRs ino)
1358 2017-12-21T19:05:46  <wumpus> yes, I mean for this PR
1359 2017-12-21T19:05:52  <sipa> BlueMatt: i've responded, please review
1360 2017-12-21T19:05:59  *** bitinvestor has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1361 2017-12-21T19:06:00  <BlueMatt> yes, will try to get back to it this week
1362 2017-12-21T19:06:06  <wumpus> there's plenty of things that can be done after merging it
1363 2017-12-21T19:06:12  <sipa> cool
1364 2017-12-21T19:06:21  <gmaxwell> sipa: did you look into that multisig still using p2sh thing we discussed?
1365 2017-12-21T19:06:32  <sipa> gmaxwell: yes, fixed, and added tests
1366 2017-12-21T19:06:42  <BlueMatt> oh, yes, it def needed more tests
1367 2017-12-21T19:06:51  <aj> ryanofsky's todo's: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11403#pullrequestreview-83563917
1368 2017-12-21T19:06:58  <sipa> BlueMatt: also addressed, i think
1369 2017-12-21T19:07:02  <BlueMatt> kool
1370 2017-12-21T19:07:06  <wumpus> #link ryanofsky's todo's: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11403#pullrequestreview-83563917
1371 2017-12-21T19:07:55  <sipa> ah yes, there are no address_type parsing tests yet
1372 2017-12-21T19:07:59  <sipa> i'll add those
1373 2017-12-21T19:08:16  <wumpus> great
1374 2017-12-21T19:09:07  <wumpus> any other topics?
1375 2017-12-21T19:09:18  <jonasschnelli> gitian build are broken
1376 2017-12-21T19:09:18  <jonasschnelli> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11935
1377 2017-12-21T19:09:23  <jonasschnelli> *builds
1378 2017-12-21T19:09:34  <BlueMatt> review 0.16 stuff!
1379 2017-12-21T19:09:35  <jonasschnelli> (I think its not a local issue)
1380 2017-12-21T19:09:39  <BlueMatt> (not just segwit wallet)
1381 2017-12-21T19:09:42  <wumpus> oh no not again
1382 2017-12-21T19:09:52  <cfields> mm, will have a look
1383 2017-12-21T19:09:54  <jonasschnelli> I think its one for cfields
1384 2017-12-21T19:09:58  <cfields> jonasschnelli: thanks for reporting
1385 2017-12-21T19:10:18  <cfields> jonasschnelli: oh, i see
1386 2017-12-21T19:10:29  <cfields> it's missing -static-libstdc++ for some reason
1387 2017-12-21T19:10:30  <Chris_Stewart_5> is there still a memory leak on master?
1388 2017-12-21T19:10:37  <wumpus> oh the symbols check fails
1389 2017-12-21T19:10:49  <jonasschnelli> Chris_Stewart_5: yes see 11824
1390 2017-12-21T19:10:50  <gmaxwell> Chris_Stewart_5: it's not a memory leak, but yes its still there.
1391 2017-12-21T19:10:53  <sipa> Chris_Stewart_5: not a leak, but memory is growing unboundedly
1392 2017-12-21T19:10:59  <wumpus> yes, it shouldn't dynamically import libstdc++
1393 2017-12-21T19:11:01  <cfields> yea, the stdlib is just linked shared. Will get to the bottom of it.
1394 2017-12-21T19:11:21  <wumpus> cfields: thanks
1395 2017-12-21T19:11:22  <cfields> nice to see that got caught!
1396 2017-12-21T19:12:34  <jonasschnelli> it's broken since dec. 1st if that helps track down the relevant commit
1397 2017-12-21T19:13:38  <wumpus> two PRs were merged that day, #11804 and #11337
1398 2017-12-21T19:13:39  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11804 | [docs] Fixed outdated link with archive.is by TimothyShimmin · Pull Request #11804 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1399 2017-12-21T19:13:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11337 | Fix code constness in CBlockIndex::GetAncestor() overloads by danra · Pull Request #11337 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1400 2017-12-21T19:14:14  <cfields> thanks
1401 2017-12-21T19:14:35  <jonasschnelli> Build 2017-12-01 00:00:10 UTC failed... but build 2017-11-30 00:00:10 UTC succeeded
1402 2017-12-21T19:14:43  *** intcat has quit IRC
1403 2017-12-21T19:14:49  <wumpus> ok many more things were merged the day before that
1404 2017-12-21T19:15:36  <sipa> dec 1st in what tz?
1405 2017-12-21T19:15:45  <jonasschnelli> 2017-12-01 00:00:10 UTC
1406 2017-12-21T19:16:05  <jonasschnelli> Commit must be between 2017-11-30 00:00:10 UTC and 2017-12-01 00:00:10 UTC
1407 2017-12-21T19:16:19  <jonasschnelli> But maybe other topics first?
1408 2017-12-21T19:16:54  *** intcat has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1409 2017-12-21T19:16:55  <jonasschnelli> anything to change at / mention from the HP list https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8?
1410 2017-12-21T19:17:15  <wumpus> there's 10 things on there already, I don't think it will help to add more
1411 2017-12-21T19:17:15  <jtimon> BlueMatt: what is "0.16 stuff"?
1412 2017-12-21T19:17:31  <BlueMatt> jtimon: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/30
1413 2017-12-21T19:17:36  <wumpus> only so much that can be 'high priority' at once
1414 2017-12-21T19:17:45  *** c40d9b0743a91f40 has quit IRC
1415 2017-12-21T19:17:55  <wumpus> and what we really want is segwit wallet anyway
1416 2017-12-21T19:18:06  <sipa> prioritize ALL THE THINGS!
1417 2017-12-21T19:18:13  <wumpus> hehe
1418 2017-12-21T19:18:27  <jtimon> does everything in there need to be merged before forking 0.16 ?
1419 2017-12-21T19:18:36  <wumpus> jtimon: no
1420 2017-12-21T19:18:46  <wumpus> just segwit wallet + the bugfixes
1421 2017-12-21T19:18:56  <wumpus> all features are optional
1422 2017-12-21T19:19:14  <wumpus> I think we get this question every week
1423 2017-12-21T19:19:32  <jonasschnelli> Maybe a short discussion about fallbackfee / RBF defaults?
1424 2017-12-21T19:19:42  <wumpus> #topic fallbackfee / RBF defaults
1425 2017-12-21T19:19:44  <jtimon> I guess the 0.16 tag confuses me
1426 2017-12-21T19:20:10  <jonasschnelli> There is a PR to split walletrbf between RPC and GUI #11605 (I don't think we should do that)
1427 2017-12-21T19:20:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11605 | [Wallet] Enable RBF by default in QT by Sjors · Pull Request #11605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1428 2017-12-21T19:20:19  <wumpus> RBF should probably become default, I don't think there's any way around that
1429 2017-12-21T19:20:23  <jonasschnelli> Also,.. there are two PRs do disable the fallback fee (one on mainnet, one entierly)
1430 2017-12-21T19:20:23  <gmaxwell> RBF should probably be default now, electrum does it, without any great consequence.
1431 2017-12-21T19:20:34  <instagibbs> wumpus, ACK
1432 2017-12-21T19:20:41  <jonasschnelli> Okay. I agree. So lets enable it by default.
1433 2017-12-21T19:20:51  <promag> +1
1434 2017-12-21T19:20:52  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: if fallback fee is disabled what happens if it would otherwise use it?
1435 2017-12-21T19:21:04  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: can you transform your PR toward that: 11605?
1436 2017-12-21T19:21:05  <wumpus> not sure what the rationale is to enable it only by default for qt?
1437 2017-12-21T19:21:10  <provoostenator> Well, I'm not so sure if that's a good idea for the RPC, which is used by different applicaitons than e.g. electrum.
1438 2017-12-21T19:21:14  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: reject
1439 2017-12-21T19:21:26  <jonasschnelli> Disabled fallback fee = JSON throw or QT reject
1440 2017-12-21T19:21:34  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: I mean, does the user get prompted to enter a fee?
1441 2017-12-21T19:21:39  <jonasschnelli> No
1442 2017-12-21T19:21:45  <wumpus> but let's merge enabling it for the gui first at least that's a step forward
1443 2017-12-21T19:21:45  <jonasschnelli> No manual fee entering is provoked
1444 2017-12-21T19:21:48  <provoostenator> Electrum is used afaik person to person, not for broadcasting lots of stuff through an automated process.
1445 2017-12-21T19:21:48  <gmaxwell> so the software just becomes unusable?
1446 2017-12-21T19:21:51  <luke-jr> ^
1447 2017-12-21T19:21:53  *** pierre_rochard has quit IRC
1448 2017-12-21T19:21:57  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: but it's possible to select a custom fee right?
1449 2017-12-21T19:22:03  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: the GUI has a checkbox for that
1450 2017-12-21T19:22:05  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. Always...
1451 2017-12-21T19:22:10  <luke-jr> hmm
1452 2017-12-21T19:22:12  <wumpus> so no, the software doesn't become unusable
1453 2017-12-21T19:22:15  <gmaxwell> What about in the rpc/cli?
1454 2017-12-21T19:22:17  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: but if you don't and fee estimations are not ready,.. rject!
1455 2017-12-21T19:22:32  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: reject if you haven't set fallbackfee or paytxfee and feeest is not ready
1456 2017-12-21T19:22:40  <jonasschnelli> fallback fees are the worst!
1457 2017-12-21T19:22:43  <jonasschnelli> (UX)
1458 2017-12-21T19:23:00  <gmaxwell> Is there are rpc way to see a fallback fee?
1459 2017-12-21T19:23:01  <jonasschnelli> Especially if its default enabled and the user don't get informed it was used!
1460 2017-12-21T19:23:06  <sipa> feeest!
1461 2017-12-21T19:23:16  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: I don't think so
1462 2017-12-21T19:23:21  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: in the gui does the failure message tell you that you can set a fee?
1463 2017-12-21T19:23:25  <provoostenator> See this comment and the IRC discussion it points back to: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11605#issuecomment-352056518 (also cc bluematt)
1464 2017-12-21T19:23:26  <jonasschnelli> If we disable it by default, you wonldn't
1465 2017-12-21T19:23:40  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: no.. but I guess I should add that
1466 2017-12-21T19:23:58  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: it says you should wait for the feeest to be ready (a couple of blocks)
1467 2017-12-21T19:24:37  <gmaxwell> We should probably do this but we need to make the matching fixes so that the software isn't unusuable for the first day of running it or whatever. e.g. by telling you that you can manually set a fee and providing facilities to do that.
1468 2017-12-21T19:24:49  <gmaxwell> probably need to add a trivial rpc to set the fallback fee.
1469 2017-12-21T19:24:51  <jtimon> ack on RBF by default. I would also remove -mempoolreplacement and always do replacements but that's likely to be more controversial
1470 2017-12-21T19:25:06  <instagibbs> jtimon, luke-jr says miners actually use this option
1471 2017-12-21T19:25:10  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: I agree.
1472 2017-12-21T19:25:10  <wumpus> it's still settable on the command line at least
1473 2017-12-21T19:25:30  <gmaxwell> since paytxfee doesn't really do the right thing there.
1474 2017-12-21T19:25:32  <sipa> it's probably best to look at the actual UI, which i haven't :)
1475 2017-12-21T19:25:33  <jonasschnelli> We could even fetch estimations from bitcoincore.org (*hide* *duck* *runaway")
1476 2017-12-21T19:25:33  <wumpus> not sure it'd make sense as a RPC, as there's already paytxfee
1477 2017-12-21T19:25:42  <zelest> sorry for asking, but can anyone just grab whatever bug in the repo and fix it.. and submit a pull request? :o
1478 2017-12-21T19:25:47  <instagibbs> jonasschnelli, or from one of my two suspended twitter bots :P
1479 2017-12-21T19:25:54  <jtimon> instagibbs: yeah, I remember that, just repeating my opinion about it
1480 2017-12-21T19:25:55  <jonasschnelli> heh
1481 2017-12-21T19:26:02  <gmaxwell> wumpus: IIRC paytxfee overrides the estimator, rather than being overridden by the estimator.
1482 2017-12-21T19:26:11  <sipa> indeed
1483 2017-12-21T19:26:13  <wumpus> zelest: no, you need triple-signed off documents from the central committee first
1484 2017-12-21T19:26:15  *** meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1485 2017-12-21T19:26:20  <wumpus> zelest: (yes, everyone can just do that :-)
1486 2017-12-21T19:26:27  <gmaxwell> wumpus: so if you achieve your fallback by setting paytxfee then you'll end up underpaying even when your estimator knows better.
1487 2017-12-21T19:26:29  <zelest> Ah ;-)
1488 2017-12-21T19:26:31  <jonasschnelli> The sendto commands have really no clever way to set the txfee
1489 2017-12-21T19:26:51  <zelest> Mayhaps this is what I should spend/waste my free time on...
1490 2017-12-21T19:26:53  <gmaxwell> in any case, I can write the rpc to set the fallback fee, it would be trivial.
1491 2017-12-21T19:27:02  <jtimon> what is the fallback fee?
1492 2017-12-21T19:27:07  <meshcollider> hi, sorry I'm late
1493 2017-12-21T19:27:13  <gmaxwell> and then the errors when you hit that case should just tell you to set the fee.
1494 2017-12-21T19:27:14  <wumpus> gmaxwell: I think it'd be slightly confusing to add yet another fee setting RPC, but okay
1495 2017-12-21T19:27:14  <jonasschnelli> jtimon: its the feerate used when no estimations are available
1496 2017-12-21T19:27:22  <wumpus> another global used in fee determination
1497 2017-12-21T19:27:24  <jtimon> jonasschnelli: thanks
1498 2017-12-21T19:27:29  <wumpus> zelest: that'd be awesome
1499 2017-12-21T19:27:58  <jonasschnelli> I agree with gmaxwell that we need a good UX for the first "day" when fee estimations are not available
1500 2017-12-21T19:28:03  <gmaxwell> wumpus: Agreed, but I don't see around it, telling lots of people to use paytxfee is probably a bad situation.
1501 2017-12-21T19:28:10  <promag> so if fee estimation is not available, rpc funding should fail?
1502 2017-12-21T19:28:22  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: not just first day, every day, because of resource usage lots of people don't leave their nodes running.
1503 2017-12-21T19:28:23  <jonasschnelli> promag: Yes
1504 2017-12-21T19:28:24  <wumpus> gmaxwell: agree...
1505 2017-12-21T19:28:32  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: indeed.
1506 2017-12-21T19:28:47  <gmaxwell> promag: unless you've set a fallback feerate.
1507 2017-12-21T19:28:48  <wumpus> gmaxwell: would almost wish that there'd be something like 'paytxfeepriority' but not that that would be any easier to understand :-)
1508 2017-12-21T19:28:52  <promag> jonasschnelli: and in the UI too? or prompt for custom?
1509 2017-12-21T19:28:53  <jtimon> gmaxwell: yeah, or people just shut down their computers when they go to sleep
1510 2017-12-21T19:28:56  <jonasschnelli> So either the user enters the current feerates into RPC/GUI or we load it from somewhere
1511 2017-12-21T19:29:03  <wumpus> gmaxwell: (e.g. whether it'd override the fee estimator or not)
1512 2017-12-21T19:29:04  <promag> gmaxwell: but we want to remove that?
1513 2017-12-21T19:29:20  <gmaxwell> promag: no we want to eliminate there being a default one.
1514 2017-12-21T19:29:48  <gmaxwell> The estimator is always going to take time to start working.  And it's not reasonable to force people to not transact until they have estimates.
1515 2017-12-21T19:30:03  <gmaxwell> But a static compiled in fallback is dumb.
1516 2017-12-21T19:30:05  <wumpus> promag: the problem is that fees are too variable now to hardcode any sensible default in the software
1517 2017-12-21T19:30:06  <promag> gmaxwell: ok, but once defined it can be outdated very fast
1518 2017-12-21T19:30:22  <luke-jr> ideally we could pre-sign multiple fee rates and send the higher ones once we have an estimate
1519 2017-12-21T19:30:43  <promag> luke-jr: only with rbf signaled
1520 2017-12-21T19:30:54  <gmaxwell> RBFing has complications, unfortunately.
1521 2017-12-21T19:30:54  <promag> ?
1522 2017-12-21T19:31:04  <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: long term.... yes. Maybe. But complicated to implement
1523 2017-12-21T19:31:05  <luke-jr> well, require RBF when there's no estimates?
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1525 2017-12-21T19:31:14  <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: I had this in a PR
1526 2017-12-21T19:31:17  <gmaxwell> You can't just assume that RBF will work unfortunately.
1527 2017-12-21T19:31:25  <gmaxwell> Because of the pinning problem.
1528 2017-12-21T19:31:26  <jonasschnelli> But then morocs asked for just disabling fallback.. which makes sense
1529 2017-12-21T19:31:31  <wumpus> RBF is orthogonal imo
1530 2017-12-21T19:31:33  <luke-jr> even without RBF, it would probably work if the problem is fee rate too low
1531 2017-12-21T19:31:43  <instagibbs> gmaxwell, "pinning" meaning someone spending on top?
1532 2017-12-21T19:31:47  <instagibbs> I like the name if so
1533 2017-12-21T19:31:48  <luke-jr> if nobody has the conflicting tx in their mempool, it's not even considered a replacement
1534 2017-12-21T19:31:51  <wumpus> yes, we also want RBF by default, but that doesn't change the fallback fee situation
1535 2017-12-21T19:31:52  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: with a large txn, yes.
1536 2017-12-21T19:32:10  <wumpus> certainly not for RPC
1537 2017-12-21T19:32:32  * luke-jr wonders how pinning affects mempool eviction of low feerate
1538 2017-12-21T19:32:38  <jonasschnelli> I think the fallback fee problem is solveble in the GUI,... but not sure about RPC layer,... we would have to add feerate parameters to the send commands
1539 2017-12-21T19:32:41  <gmaxwell> in any case, ACK removing fallback fee but we must be mindful that for a lot of users the no-estimate case will be very frequent so the workflow has to be good: which means clear messages and a straight forward way to set a fee.
1540 2017-12-21T19:33:03  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: RPC I think is fine, setfallbackfee ...  and the error returned on send tells you that you have to use that.
1541 2017-12-21T19:33:15  <wumpus> yeah...
1542 2017-12-21T19:33:22  <jonasschnelli> I think gmaxwell idea with the setfallbackfee RPC makes most sense..
1543 2017-12-21T19:33:26  <jtimon> yeah I think RBF is orthogonal too. let's just make it default independently of the estimation issue
1544 2017-12-21T19:33:35  <wumpus> jtimon: agree
1545 2017-12-21T19:33:37  <gmaxwell> then for cli users the workflow is basically like the GUI one, and for businesses they might pull the fallback off another node, or an estimation site.
1546 2017-12-21T19:33:48  <wumpus> right
1547 2017-12-21T19:33:50  <gmaxwell> (automatically)
1548 2017-12-21T19:33:59  <jtimon> don't we have an estimator purely based on past blocks with no knowledge of the mempool?
1549 2017-12-21T19:34:27  <instagibbs> jtimon, that's the only way we do it
1550 2017-12-21T19:34:54  <jtimon> mhm, then why do you need to be up for some time to have estimates?
1551 2017-12-21T19:34:55  <gmaxwell> instagibbs: not quite we watch the dwell time of transactions that confirm.
1552 2017-12-21T19:34:59  <gmaxwell> it needs both
1553 2017-12-21T19:35:01  <promag> how about something to help/speedup fee estimation?
1554 2017-12-21T19:35:23  <instagibbs> mistook the question
1555 2017-12-21T19:35:25  <wumpus> using only blocks would be easy to manipulate
1556 2017-12-21T19:35:26  <promag> like feeding fee estimation with something.. don't know the internals
1557 2017-12-21T19:35:31  <gmaxwell> using blocks exclusively is exploitable, unfortunately. Though there are limited ways which it could help.
1558 2017-12-21T19:35:56  <gmaxwell> e.g. you could look at the minimum fee confirmed over many blocks, but sadly it would be misleadingly low because of OOB payments and such.
1559 2017-12-21T19:36:03  <jtimon> perhaps we could have a non-mempool estimator that is used by default until there's data for the mempool based one
1560 2017-12-21T19:36:20  <wumpus> adding a new estimator is not going to go for 0.16 at least
1561 2017-12-21T19:36:33  <wumpus> in the future, who knows
1562 2017-12-21T19:36:43  <gmaxwell> also it's not likely to be invented by folks who don't know the current one and history. :)
1563 2017-12-21T19:36:54  <jtimon> say, something stupid like max (the minimum feerate in each block for the last 144 blocks)
1564 2017-12-21T19:37:38  <gmaxwell> jtimon: yes, maybe... under the bet that there is at least one block with no OOB fees. You'd have to exclude blocks that weren't full.
1565 2017-12-21T19:37:55  <sipa> or bounding estimates by the feerate at 1 MB vbyte from the top of the mempool
1566 2017-12-21T19:38:01  <aj> jtimon: aggregate all the fee rates over a bunch of blocks and choose a fee that's higher than ~10% or 20% of them
1567 2017-12-21T19:38:09  <gmaxwell> sipa: without mempool sync that isn't fast.
1568 2017-12-21T19:38:16  <jtimon> gmaxwell: right, 100 empty blocks would screw you
1569 2017-12-21T19:38:18  <sipa> ah yes
1570 2017-12-21T19:38:23  <gmaxwell> but indeed, once we have some kind of mempool sync we could do things like that.
1571 2017-12-21T19:38:49  <wumpus> 100 empty blocks would screw everyone
1572 2017-12-21T19:39:24  <jtimon> is there a way to persist the mempool while running instead of only when shutting down?
1573 2017-12-21T19:39:24  *** Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1574 2017-12-21T19:39:38  <instagibbs> jtimon, i think there is an rpc for that
1575 2017-12-21T19:39:49  <gmaxwell> jtimon: just go back one day of blocks, counting only blocks at least 0.95*MAX_WEIGHT in size, and check the maximum of their minimum feerates. Would be interesting to see what that yields right now. It _might_ be useful.
1576 2017-12-21T19:40:05  <wumpus> savemempool RPC
1577 2017-12-21T19:40:22  <instagibbs> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11099
1578 2017-12-21T19:40:44  <jtimon> gmaxwell: yeah, that sounds less stupid than what I proposed, and still isn't hard
1579 2017-12-21T19:40:49  *** MarcoFalke has quit IRC
1580 2017-12-21T19:41:11  *** bitinvestor has quit IRC
1581 2017-12-21T19:41:19  <gmaxwell> or instead of their minimum feerate, their Nth percentile feerate.
1582 2017-12-21T19:41:26  <jtimon> I mean, still probably not for 0.16, but not hard to code I think
1583 2017-12-21T19:41:31  <gmaxwell> right
1584 2017-12-21T19:41:48  <wumpus> any other topics?
1585 2017-12-21T19:42:07  <gmaxwell> e.g. what feerate is less than 95% of the txn in the block... gives it room to ignore 5% priority txn.
1586 2017-12-21T19:42:18  <jtimon> wumpus: instagibbs thank you! and sorry, the question is kind of unrelated anyway
1587 2017-12-21T19:42:20  <wumpus> yes that'd make sense
1588 2017-12-21T19:42:20  <provoostenator> I'm still reluctant about enabling RBF for RPC. Without having a long disucssion here, is there a list of known large services that use Bitcoin Core RPC to broadcast transactions? I'd like to know their take on this.
1589 2017-12-21T19:42:40  <gmaxwell> provoostenator: an RPC using service can at least read the release note and simply turn it off again.
1590 2017-12-21T19:42:44  <aj> i did sextile graphs of fee rates aggregated over 24 hours the other day, http://azure.erisian.com.au/~aj/tmp/graphs/fpvb-trends.png and http://azure.erisian.com.au/~aj/tmp/graphs/segwit-comparison.png i think they track pretty well
1591 2017-12-21T19:42:50  <wumpus> promag: let's first enable it for the gui, at least that's uncontroversial
1592 2017-12-21T19:42:54  <wumpus> provoostenator*
1593 2017-12-21T19:43:29  *** MarcoFalke has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1594 2017-12-21T19:44:23  <instagibbs> 15 minutes left
1595 2017-12-21T19:44:25  <provoostenator> It's equally trivial for an RPC user to just set walletrbf=1 if they want to use this. The only problem seems to be code complexity.
1596 2017-12-21T19:44:30  <wumpus> I think having a too long defaults discussion is not productive, if anyone is opposed to enabling it for RPC with good reason then we shouldn't do that
1597 2017-12-21T19:44:51  <gmaxwell> rpc can wait, we can release note a reminder that you can turn it on for cli/rpc use.
1598 2017-12-21T19:44:54  <promag> wumpus: ok
1599 2017-12-21T19:45:09  <wumpus> people using RPC will usually have a better idea of available options anyhow
1600 2017-12-21T19:45:12  <provoostenator> gmaxwell: I already put that in the release note in my PR
1601 2017-12-21T19:45:20  <instagibbs> perhaps with a warning that future versions may change this
1602 2017-12-21T19:45:21  <provoostenator> (sort of)
1603 2017-12-21T19:45:21  *** valentinewallace has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1604 2017-12-21T19:45:34  <jonasschnelli> I don't think splitting walletrbf between GUI and RPC makes sense in the long run
1605 2017-12-21T19:45:40  <wumpus> yes, defaults are subject to change
1606 2017-12-21T19:45:44  <gmaxwell> sipa: so what do you think long term trying to use that block percentile as a maximum fee for a fast estimate, and then use a synced mempool to potentially reduce the number. I think that escapes the primary manipulation concerns we have.
1607 2017-12-21T19:45:45  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: on the long run it makes no sense
1608 2017-12-21T19:45:50  <provoostenator> I think it does make sense to treat GUI and RPC different
1609 2017-12-21T19:45:53  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it'd be a temporary artifact
1610 2017-12-21T19:45:56  <provoostenator> Very different use cases.
1611 2017-12-21T19:45:59  <gmaxwell> just get rid of the setting for the GUI.
1612 2017-12-21T19:46:15  <provoostenator> It's just a code maintenance thing why we shouldn't make them too different.
1613 2017-12-21T19:46:28  <sipa> gmaxwell: if you're worried about OOB paymemts, shouldn't you also be concerned about OOB refunds?
1614 2017-12-21T19:46:39  <jonasschnelli> What speak again just enabling -walletrbf GUI/RPC by default?
1615 2017-12-21T19:46:42  <jonasschnelli> *against
1616 2017-12-21T19:46:44  <wumpus> gmaxwell: I think that's a good point too - why would the GUI need a setting for the default?
1617 2017-12-21T19:46:47  <jtimon> i think rbf active is the most sensible default for both rpc and gui
1618 2017-12-21T19:46:49  <gmaxwell> sipa: OOB refunds don't currently appear to be a real thing.
1619 2017-12-21T19:46:49  <wumpus> it has a checkbox if you really want to disable it
1620 2017-12-21T19:46:56  <provoostenator> gmaxwell: yes, I can kill the setting for the GUI, especially because I renamed the RPC setting to -rpcwalletrbf
1621 2017-12-21T19:47:00  <gmaxwell> wumpus: yep thats just what I was typing, that it has a checkbox.
1622 2017-12-21T19:47:00  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: people are lazy to read checkboxes? :)
1623 2017-12-21T19:47:25  <gmaxwell> then they'll certantly not read a setting. :)
1624 2017-12-21T19:47:26  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: well the default is sensible, lazy people won't want to override it!
1625 2017-12-21T19:47:32  <wumpus> gmaxwell: indeed
1626 2017-12-21T19:47:43  <sipa> gmaxwell: for now.
1627 2017-12-21T19:47:57  <wumpus> +1 on not having the GUI default setting
1628 2017-12-21T19:48:01  <jonasschnelli> Set walletrbf=1 by default,.. switch the checkbox in the GUI  (to disable RBF instead of enable)
1629 2017-12-21T19:49:24  <jtimon> why not leave the checkbox as meaning enabled but simply have it checked by default?
1630 2017-12-21T19:49:30  <provoostenator> Rather than renaming -walletrbf to -rpcwalletrbf, I can also make it clear that -walletrbf won't impact the GUI.
1631 2017-12-21T19:49:43  <wumpus> provoostenator: yes, I'd prefer that
1632 2017-12-21T19:49:47  <gmaxwell> +1
1633 2017-12-21T19:49:54  <wumpus> provoostenator: I'd really prefer not to have a rename/deprecate cycle there
1634 2017-12-21T19:50:00  <wumpus> provoostenator: (as I've expressed before)
1635 2017-12-21T19:50:03  <gmaxwell> better to not break things for people who are already walletrbf=1 if we can avoid it.
1636 2017-12-21T19:50:10  <wumpus> yeah...
1637 2017-12-21T19:50:10  * jonasschnelli unsure
1638 2017-12-21T19:50:26  <wumpus> just document the option instead of renaming it
1639 2017-12-21T19:50:27  <jonasschnelli> Wait...yes. This makes sense
1640 2017-12-21T19:50:28  <provoostenator> Yeah, the deprecation stuff was a bit overkill.
1641 2017-12-21T19:50:48  <gmaxwell> just adjust the description, make the gui not read that setting for the checkbox default.
1642 2017-12-21T19:50:49  <wumpus> ok, cool!
1643 2017-12-21T19:50:55  <wumpus> seems we agree
1644 2017-12-21T19:50:58  <jonasschnelli> ack
1645 2017-12-21T19:51:05  <meshcollider> yep sounds good
1646 2017-12-21T19:51:07  <gmaxwell> if users complain that they can't set a different default we'll deal with that then, but I don't expect it.
1647 2017-12-21T19:51:15  <luke-jr> why not just let -walletrbf continue to work, but have the new defaults only affect when it's unset?
1648 2017-12-21T19:51:24  <wumpus> luke-jr: it will continue to work
1649 2017-12-21T19:51:30  <wumpus> for the RPC
1650 2017-12-21T19:51:34  <luke-jr> wumpus: I mean for both
1651 2017-12-21T19:51:37  <wumpus> any other topics?
1652 2017-12-21T19:51:48  <wumpus> luke-jr: using the same setting with different default in different places was *ugly*
1653 2017-12-21T19:52:01  <provoostenator> ^
1654 2017-12-21T19:52:13  <provoostenator> That was actually what I did in the first version, but it's confusing.
1655 2017-12-21T19:52:24  <gmaxwell> the 'implementation defined behavior when not set' should be used very sparingly.
1656 2017-12-21T19:52:28  <provoostenator> Making it clear that -walletrbf has no bearing on the GUI (including it's default) seems better.
1657 2017-12-21T19:52:31  <luke-jr> IMO the ugliness only comes from having two defaults, not from having a common setting
1658 2017-12-21T19:52:42  <wumpus> yes, that used to be the case, but it's no way to handle options imo, and won't be ocmpatible when we introduce an actual options registration/parsing system
1659 2017-12-21T19:52:47  <provoostenator> I'll push that after the meeting.
1660 2017-12-21T19:52:57  <jonasschnelli> Thanks provoostenator!
1661 2017-12-21T19:52:58  <gmaxwell> In general we should probably not have config file setting for GUI checkboxes that stare the user in the face.
1662 2017-12-21T19:53:06  <provoostenator> Remind me not to make changes to defaults too often :-)
1663 2017-12-21T19:53:09  <gmaxwell> if the GUI wants a persistant default it should be changable from the GUI.
1664 2017-12-21T19:53:14  <meshcollider> Which I am trying to work on at the moment :)
1665 2017-12-21T19:53:17  <luke-jr> gmaxwell: via rwconf ;)
1666 2017-12-21T19:53:18  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: hah... these are the worst. :)
1667 2017-12-21T19:53:20  <gmaxwell> But hopefully we won't need a changable persistant default for this.
1668 2017-12-21T19:53:50  <wumpus> right
1669 2017-12-21T19:53:53  <jtimon> the rbf checkbox doesn't appear with every tx?
1670 2017-12-21T19:54:03  <provoostenator> luke-jr: rwconf?
1671 2017-12-21T19:54:17  <wumpus> jtimon: isn't it always there?
1672 2017-12-21T19:54:20  <meshcollider> jtimon: what?
1673 2017-12-21T19:54:21  <gmaxwell> provoostenator: code to allow the conf file to be rewritten by setting changes at runtime.
1674 2017-12-21T19:54:23  <luke-jr> provoostenator: lets the GUI change config file settings
1675 2017-12-21T19:54:32  <wumpus> please, no scope creep
1676 2017-12-21T19:54:38  <gmaxwell> that was just a tangent.
1677 2017-12-21T19:54:44  <gmaxwell> not scope creep. :)
1678 2017-12-21T19:54:55  <provoostenator> Ah, so we don't have this "here's a setting, but if you use -blah it's overridden, unless you also have bitcoin.conf, unless you have another one" stuff?
1679 2017-12-21T19:55:17  <gmaxwell> I was just expressing the principle that controlling GUI defaults via non-gui accessable settings is just not very good.
1680 2017-12-21T19:55:24  <jtimon> sorry, I should look at the gui. my assumption was that for every tx a checkbox would say "allow rbf" and that is unchecked by default and we're moving to checked by default
1681 2017-12-21T19:55:31  <wumpus> it would add another bitcoin.conf, bitcoin_rw.conf, which can be written by the software itself
1682 2017-12-21T19:55:45  <provoostenator> gmaxwell: indeed, also not very easy to launch QT with flags on OSX.
1683 2017-12-21T19:55:53  <gmaxwell> I know, we could save the users settings ON THE BLOCKCHAIN
1684 2017-12-21T19:56:03  <meshcollider> jtimon: yep that's basically what this is doing
1685 2017-12-21T19:56:08  <wumpus> hehehe, settings delta chain
1686 2017-12-21T19:56:10  <sipa> gmaxwell: woah!
1687 2017-12-21T19:56:44  <meshcollider> lol
1688 2017-12-21T19:56:50  * cfields founds chainsettingsalytics
1689 2017-12-21T19:56:51  <wumpus> gmaxwell: I"m surprised that no *coin project commits git diffs to the blockchain yet
1690 2017-12-21T19:56:56  <jtimon> meshcollider: then I don't understand the -walletrbf discussion, but it's fine
1691 2017-12-21T19:57:02  <gmaxwell> plus the related costs will make them never get changed, and since they're never changed we could remove the implementation of the choices... less UI to maintain!
1692 2017-12-21T19:57:12  <provoostenator> Some people use opentimestamps for that
1693 2017-12-21T19:57:24  <provoostenator> The git integration thing.
1694 2017-12-21T19:57:32  <achow101> wumpus: there's definitely a Core commit diff somewhere on the blockchain
1695 2017-12-21T19:57:33  <meshcollider> jtimon: the walletrbf discussion is about whether that parameter should affect the GUI default or only the RPC I believe
1696 2017-12-21T19:57:34  <wumpus> or even better, just commit javascript code for the GUI to the block chain
1697 2017-12-21T19:57:42  <wumpus> :')
1698 2017-12-21T19:57:47  <achow101> I found it once, but don't know where it is
1699 2017-12-21T19:58:05  <wumpus> achow101: oh! which one?
1700 2017-12-21T19:58:19  <wumpus> it'd certainly create incentive to make patches small
1701 2017-12-21T19:58:23  <achow101> wumpus: I don't quite remember
1702 2017-12-21T19:58:56  <jtimon> meshcollider: right, we're moving to not affecting it seems, which is what makes most sense to me, just what I described with no relation to -walletrbf. so it's fine.
1703 2017-12-21T19:58:57  <meshcollider> wumpus: heh why just the GUI, entire new versions of core could be downloaded directly from the blockchain too!
1704 2017-12-21T19:59:08  <wumpus> no one would submit a diff-all-over-the-place PR if it costs >300 sat/byte
1705 2017-12-21T19:59:24  *** btcdrak has quit IRC
1706 2017-12-21T19:59:28  <wumpus> meshcollider: yes of course, updates to the consensus algo too :')
1707 2017-12-21T19:59:29  <sipa> wumpus: do you get a refund for deleted lines?
1708 2017-12-21T19:59:34  <wumpus> sipa: yes!
1709 2017-12-21T19:59:35  <provoostenator> Unless they want to show off their wealth as an offering...
1710 2017-12-21T19:59:37  <meshcollider> jtimon: yep exactly
1711 2017-12-21T19:59:38  <jtimon> meshcollider: that would be great to make sure everyone upgrades before a hf :p
1712 2017-12-21T19:59:44  <sipa> wumpus: brb, deleting all the tests
1713 2017-12-21T19:59:54  <wumpus> sipa: but only if accepted :-)
1714 2017-12-21T19:59:57  <luke-jr> wumpus: you're going to give my children nightmares
1715 2017-12-21T19:59:58  <sipa> oh.
1716 2017-12-21T20:00:05  <sipa> DONG
1717 2017-12-21T20:00:08  <wumpus> #endmeeting
1718 2017-12-21T20:00:08  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Dec 21 20:00:08 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
1719 2017-12-21T20:00:08  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-21-19.01.html
1720 2017-12-21T20:00:08  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-21-19.01.txt
1721 2017-12-21T20:00:08  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2017/bitcoin-core-dev.2017-12-21-19.01.log.html
1722 2017-12-21T20:00:10  <wumpus> luke-jr: uh oh
1723 2017-12-21T20:00:17  <jonasschnelli> cfields: chainsettingsalytics?
1724 2017-12-21T20:00:17  <achow101> I forgot there was a meeting today..
1725 2017-12-21T20:00:40  <meshcollider> achow101: at least you made it for the end ;)
1726 2017-12-21T20:00:52  <cfields> jonasschnelli: for tracking and selling on-chain user settings, of course
1727 2017-12-21T20:01:05  <jtimon> -forceautoupgradeonversionsolderthanthisoption
1728 2017-12-21T20:01:06  <cfields> jonasschnelli: you happen to have git revisions for good/broken gitian builds?
1729 2017-12-21T20:01:10  <sipa> achow101: you should make the blockchain remind you
1730 2017-12-21T20:01:17  <achow101> sipa: lol
1731 2017-12-21T20:01:21  <jonasschnelli> cfields: let me check
1732 2017-12-21T20:01:33  <cfields> thanks
1733 2017-12-21T20:01:47  <jonasschnelli> Good: 38d31f95
1734 2017-12-21T20:01:53  <jtimon> sipa: can you even program a smart contract alarm without turing completeness? :p
1735 2017-12-21T20:01:53  <jonasschnelli> Broken: 13e31dd6
1736 2017-12-21T20:01:56  <jonasschnelli> Happy bisect
1737 2017-12-21T20:02:05  *** jb55 has quit IRC
1738 2017-12-21T20:02:18  <achow101> in other unrelated news, I finally got around to simulating the branch and bound coin selection stuff
1739 2017-12-21T20:02:19  <cfields> perfect! thanks :)
1740 2017-12-21T20:04:32  <jtimon> alright, I'm going to go try that savemempool rpc...
1741 2017-12-21T20:07:48  <jonasschnelli> jtimon: why?
1742 2017-12-21T20:07:55  *** jb55 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1743 2017-12-21T20:08:00  <gmaxwell> achow101: and?
1744 2017-12-21T20:08:06  <wumpus> FYI you can only save to the default file, it doesn't take a filename argument
1745 2017-12-21T20:08:10  <achow101> gmaxwell: it's taking a long time
1746 2017-12-21T20:08:19  *** spence has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1747 2017-12-21T20:08:43  <achow101> I'm looking at some results right now and I'll add a comment to the PR with them
1748 2017-12-21T20:11:24  <achow101> gmaxwell: AFAICT, it performs on par with the current coin selection behavior but I think that might be because BnB was only used <3% of the time with the dataset and parameters I just tried
1749 2017-12-21T20:13:06  <spence> Is there a roadmap for integrating segwit better into Core?  Gui, etc...
1750 2017-12-21T20:13:30  <gmaxwell> it'll be in the next release.
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1753 2017-12-21T20:16:33  <wumpus> #11403
1754 2017-12-21T20:16:43  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11403 | SegWit wallet support by sipa · Pull Request #11403 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1755 2017-12-21T20:17:58  *** SopaXorzTaker has quit IRC
1756 2017-12-21T20:20:43  <contrapumpkin> is there a way I can feed bitcoin core an HD wallet xpub key and get it to monitor the balance without holding the private keys?
1757 2017-12-21T20:20:51  <contrapumpkin> oh sorry, wrong channel
1758 2017-12-21T20:21:05  <provoostenator> On a meta note. Looks like I can keep helping out for a while without running out food :-)  https://blog.blockchain.com/2017/12/21/first-open-source-developer/
1759 2017-12-21T20:21:55  <achow101> provoostenator: congrats!
1760 2017-12-21T20:23:28  <jtimon> jonasschnelli: I'm working on an explorer, and every time I deploy ir restarts the daemon's container, but it doesn't wait for the mempool dump, so I lose the whole mempool every time. I'll fix it with process that  periodically calls savemempool
1761 2017-12-21T20:23:43  <jonasschnelli> ah
1762 2017-12-21T20:24:47  <sipa> provoostenator: congratulations
1763 2017-12-21T20:24:50  <sipa> very happy to see that
1764 2017-12-21T20:25:22  <jonasschnelli> provoostenator: Oh. Nice! Well done.
1765 2017-12-21T20:25:45  <wumpus> provoostenator: great!
1766 2017-12-21T20:26:20  <jimpo> Just out of curiousity, why is much of the secp256k1 code in _impl.h header files instead of .c files?
1767 2017-12-21T20:27:06  <wumpus> jimpo: optimization, scope for inlining, as well as making it easy to add secp256k1 to a project by just adding one .c file
1768 2017-12-21T20:27:35  *** intcat has quit IRC
1769 2017-12-21T20:28:15  <jtimon> provoostenator: cool, great news
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1773 2017-12-21T20:32:47  <meshcollider> 🎉
1774 2017-12-21T20:32:50  <cfields> provoostenator: congrats!
1775 2017-12-21T20:33:46  <zelest> how much of self-torture will I have to live through to get bitcoin running on OpenBSD? :)
1776 2017-12-21T20:33:49  <provoostenator> Thanks! Also, updated #11605 (but do check carefully, it's a bit late here...)
1777 2017-12-21T20:33:52  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11605 | [Wallet] Enable RBF by default in QT by Sjors · Pull Request #11605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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1780 2017-12-21T20:39:16  <cfields> zelest: there are freshly updated docs for that
1781 2017-12-21T20:39:48  <cfields> wumpus self-tortured himself so you wouldn't have to
1782 2017-12-21T20:41:01  <wumpus> cfields: well we didn't update the docs yet for openbsd 6.2, just the bdb building tool
1783 2017-12-21T20:41:14  <wumpus> although the current instructions should work
1784 2017-12-21T20:41:23  <cfields> oh, i thought that was all that was needed
1785 2017-12-21T20:41:57  <wumpus> the docs could be really simplified because openbsd 6.2 includes clang, it currently tells to install either clang or a newer gcc
1786 2017-12-21T20:42:18  <wumpus> openbsd 6.2's built-in compiler can build bitcoin core :)
1787 2017-12-21T20:42:24  <cfields> ah right
1788 2017-12-21T20:42:28  <cfields> nice
1789 2017-12-21T20:43:08  <cfields> wonder what obsd would've done without clang.
1790 2017-12-21T20:44:20  <wumpus> dunno either, could hardly have sticked with gcc 4.2 forever
1791 2017-12-21T20:46:40  *** whphhg has quit IRC
1792 2017-12-21T20:46:41  <wumpus> zelest: so basically: append CC=cc CXX=c++ to the contrib/install_db4.sh and configure commands
1793 2017-12-21T20:47:11  <wumpus> so that it will use clang and not the gcc 4.2, which for some reason is still installed
1794 2017-12-21T20:47:30  *** jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk
1795 2017-12-21T20:48:14  <wumpus> (or maybe that's because my openbsd box was upgraded from $OLD_VERSION)
1796 2017-12-21T20:48:44  <cfields> it switched your default cc/c++ after an upgrade?
1797 2017-12-21T20:49:37  <wumpus> it didn't use to have cc/c++, just gcc/g++
1798 2017-12-21T20:49:51  <cfields> ah
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1800 2017-12-21T20:50:29  <wumpus> and by default, most build systems will pick gcc over cc
1801 2017-12-21T20:50:30  <cfields> yikes, though. buildsystems do all kinds of combinations of checks for cc/gcc
1802 2017-12-21T20:50:40  <cfields> stupid cmake, for example, uses cc/c++
1803 2017-12-21T20:51:24  <wumpus> I should try installing an openbsd 6.2 from scratch and see if it has only clang, that'd make more sense
1804 2017-12-21T20:52:00  <wumpus> g++ and c++ have an incompatible abi so ou're right that it cause all kind of pain
1805 2017-12-21T20:52:01  <cfields> or gcc -> cc
1806 2017-12-21T20:52:07  <cfields> that's what macos does
1807 2017-12-21T20:52:36  <wumpus> yes the same command line interface anyway
1808 2017-12-21T20:53:40  <cfields> 10% unrelated: gcc is able to build in a chroot with only binutils/gmake/previous gcc/libc/kernel headers.
1809 2017-12-21T20:54:08  <cfields> cmake, however, is the first to require a whole mess of libs :(
1810 2017-12-21T20:54:17  *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC
1811 2017-12-21T20:54:19  <wumpus> what do we need cmake for?
1812 2017-12-21T20:54:25  <wumpus> it's mostly used for graphical stuff right?
1813 2017-12-21T20:54:26  <cfields> clang
1814 2017-12-21T20:54:30  <wumpus> oh
1815 2017-12-21T20:54:45  <cfields> so no avoiding it as part of the early build process, i'm afraid
1816 2017-12-21T20:55:46  <wumpus> clang is cmake only now?
1817 2017-12-21T20:55:58  <wumpus> Ithought it had an autoconf based build as well
1818 2017-12-21T20:56:06  <cfields> not sure if it is for 5.0, but if not, the autotools is heavily deprecated
1819 2017-12-21T20:56:16  <wumpus> ah yes you're right
1820 2017-12-21T20:56:39  <wumpus> I see I also switched my clang configuration script to cmake at some point, apparently without remembering
1821 2017-12-21T20:56:52  <cfields> heh
1822 2017-12-21T20:57:04  <cfields> well it's probably not all that different if you're using all system paths
1823 2017-12-21T20:58:11  <wumpus> cmake -DLLVM_TOOL_COMPILER_RT_BUILD:BOOL=ON -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=ON -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt/clang${VER} -DLLVM_BINUTILS_INCDIR=/usr/include -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=RelWithDebInfo ../llvm
1824 2017-12-21T20:58:18  <wumpus> well it's not as bad as some cross-compiles...
1825 2017-12-21T21:02:03  <zelest> wumpus, Ah, awesome! thanks :)
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1838 2017-12-21T21:49:35  <zelest> wumpus, boo! the compile blew up P
1839 2017-12-21T21:49:36  <zelest> :P
1840 2017-12-21T21:50:30  <wumpus> with what?
1841 2017-12-21T21:50:36  <zelest> https://pastebin.com/0WLsNR7j
1842 2017-12-21T21:51:18  <wumpus> zelest: what version are you building?
1843 2017-12-21T21:51:49  <wumpus> and you did do contrib/install_db4.sh CC=cc CXX=c++ ?
1844 2017-12-21T21:52:17  <wumpus> this happens when dbc++ was built with a different compiler than bitcoind
1845 2017-12-21T21:53:38  <zelest> wumpus, 0.15.1 and yeah.. and no, I used CC=egcc CXX=eg++ CPP=ecpp :o
1846 2017-12-21T21:53:58  <sipa> what version of gcc is that?
1847 2017-12-21T21:54:10  <zelest> 4.2.1
1848 2017-12-21T21:54:32  <zelest> i did however run ./configure with CC=cc and CXX=c++
1849 2017-12-21T21:54:41  <sipa> that won't work
1850 2017-12-21T21:54:44  <sipa> you need gcc 4.7
1851 2017-12-21T21:55:12  * zelest tries what wumpus suggested and runs llvm for both dbc++ and bitcoind
1852 2017-12-21T21:56:02  <wumpus> zelest: 0.15.1 doesn't have the necessary patch, unfortunately that install_db4.sh  ignores arguments
1853 2017-12-21T21:56:10  <zelest> oh
1854 2017-12-21T21:56:39  <wumpus> this was fixed on master yesterday with #11945
1855 2017-12-21T21:56:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11945 | Improve BSD compatibility of contrib/install_db4.sh by laanwj · Pull Request #11945 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1856 2017-12-21T21:56:49  <wumpus> you could probably just copy the file from there
1857 2017-12-21T21:57:01  <zelest> wumpus, can I compile master? (i saw build:failed on there, hence me picking 0.15.1)
1858 2017-12-21T21:57:06  <wumpus> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/laanwj/bitcoin/2712742ef2947feef4a142f7d1360d1e821597dc/contrib/install_db4.sh
1859 2017-12-21T21:57:08  <zelest> ah
1860 2017-12-21T21:57:18  <wumpus> sure, you can build master
1861 2017-12-21T21:57:46  <zelest> oh yeah, the link in build-openbsd.md is wrong btw
1862 2017-12-21T21:57:49  <zelest> it 404s
1863 2017-12-21T21:57:52  <wumpus> but thanks for reminding me it needs a backport label
1864 2017-12-21T21:58:15  <wumpus> which link?
1865 2017-12-21T21:59:50  <wumpus> anyhow that's likely fixed on master too
1866 2017-12-21T21:59:51  <zelest> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-openbsd.md the "the installation script included in contrib/" under Building Berkley DB
1867 2017-12-21T22:00:17  <zelest> BerkeleyDB*
1868 2017-12-21T22:03:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laudaa opened pull request #11976: [Doc] Fix link to installation script (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11976
1869 2017-12-21T22:03:48  <Lauda> Sorry, we missed that one
1870 2017-12-21T22:03:57  <wumpus> apparently Lauda in #11960 fixed that in all files except build-openbsd.md in
1871 2017-12-21T22:03:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11960 | [Doc] Fix link to installation script by laudaa · Pull Request #11960 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1872 2017-12-21T22:06:02  <zelest> no love for OpenBSD :(
1873 2017-12-21T22:09:19  <Emcy> !topic
1874 2017-12-21T22:09:19  <gribble> Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | This is the channel for developing Bitcoin Core. Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev, http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/
1875 2017-12-21T22:09:34  <Emcy> when are the meetings? weekly?
1876 2017-12-21T22:09:50  <Lauda> Yes
1877 2017-12-21T22:09:59  <wumpus> 19:00-20:00 UTC Thursdays, you just missed one
1878 2017-12-21T22:10:24  <Emcy> ok
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1884 2017-12-21T22:27:14  <zelest> wumpus, yeah, failed even with those CC flags
1885 2017-12-21T22:27:19  <zelest> oh well
1886 2017-12-21T22:29:25  <Emcy> 0.16 i branching soon. nice.
1887 2017-12-21T22:29:33  <wumpus> zelest: so you used the new version of install_db4.sh?
1888 2017-12-21T22:29:37  <zelest> yeah
1889 2017-12-21T22:29:42  <Emcy> and segwit gui is getting merged
1890 2017-12-21T22:29:54  <wumpus> zelest: ok, no clue in that case, it worked for me
1891 2017-12-21T22:30:14  <zelest> wumpus, i'm using -current though, might affecting it.. *shrugs*
1892 2017-12-21T22:30:32  <zelest> also had it running back in 6.1
1893 2017-12-21T22:31:08  <zelest> wumpus, thanks for all the help though :)
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1895 2017-12-21T22:32:27  <wumpus> zelest: I don't think that should matter - what matters is that both dbc++ and bitcoind are compiled with the same c and c++ compiler
1896 2017-12-21T22:32:42  <wumpus> zelest: if not, you get linker errors, due to ABI mismatch
1897 2017-12-21T22:33:21  *** Joshua has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1898 2017-12-21T22:33:44  *** Joshua is now known as Guest99499
1899 2017-12-21T22:34:41  <zelest> hmms..
1900 2017-12-21T22:34:48  <Guest99499> How can 4 btc come out of my wallet and I did not send anything
1901 2017-12-21T22:35:45  <Guest99499>  It was  several different transactions with the same address going out is it rerouting
1902 2017-12-21T22:35:59  <zelest> wumpus, i will give it another go tomorrow and start out with a fresh copy of both source trees.. need to hit the shower before i hit the sack. :)
1903 2017-12-21T22:36:08  <Guest99499> Will it come back to my Wallet
1904 2017-12-21T22:36:32  <sipa> Guest99499: #bitcoin
1905 2017-12-21T22:36:34  <wumpus> zelest: yes it might be that something left behind from earlier builds; also it's a good idea to pipe the build output to a file to see if the right compiler gets used
1906 2017-12-21T22:36:41  <sipa> Guest99499: or https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com
1907 2017-12-21T22:36:58  <zelest> wumpus, ah, true
1908 2017-12-21T22:37:33  <Guest99499> So there's nothing to worry about it will come back to my wallet
1909 2017-12-21T22:37:45  <sipa> Guest99499: not here.
1910 2017-12-21T22:39:42  <Guest99499> How can I get my missing btc back in my wallet  Who authorized to take it out
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1912 2017-12-21T22:41:38  <Guest99499> Has anybody else had the same problem
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1914 2017-12-21T22:44:16  <wumpus> Guest99499: #bitcoin please
1915 2017-12-21T22:44:22  <sipa> Guest99499: last warning, not here. this channel is for development, not support
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1917 2017-12-21T22:59:52  *** talha_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1918 2017-12-21T22:59:59  <talha_> hi
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1921 2017-12-21T23:04:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theuni opened pull request #11981: Fix gitian build after libzmq bump (master...fix-gitian-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11981
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1927 2017-12-21T23:13:54  <talha_> any fork expert here?
1928 2017-12-21T23:14:39  <wumpus> that's off topic here
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1936 2017-12-21T23:34:30  <talha_> whats the topic here?
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1938 2017-12-21T23:36:47  <zelest> wumpus, heh, who needs sleep.. :D removed both trees and started over. seems to be compiling now.. \o/
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1940 2017-12-21T23:45:03  <meshcollider> talha_: topic here is development of bitcoin core, not any other software or forks
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