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 78 2018-03-22T03:52:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke closed pull request #12649: Add documentation about generating flame graphs. (master...flamegraphs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12649
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 92 2018-03-22T05:09:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Empact closed pull request #12745: Expose node relay fee settings in help, independent of -help-debug (master...expose-relay-fee-settings-help) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12745
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172 2018-03-22T08:10:07  <koichirose> hello! what could be the reason for 0.16 to always return legacy addresses, even with 'getnewaddress “” p2sh-segwit’?
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178 2018-03-22T09:00:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e0f7515f5500...ad823178e85a
179 2018-03-22T09:00:39  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bcab47b Kevin Pan: use base58 map instead of strchr()
180 2018-03-22T09:00:40  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ad82317 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12704: base58: use map instead of strchr() when decode...
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182 2018-03-22T09:01:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12704: base58: use map instead of strchr() when decode (master...b58_bitmap) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12704
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191 2018-03-22T09:32:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ad823178e85a...185d48473e43
192 2018-03-22T09:32:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0ec08a6 John Newbery: [Tests] Move assert_start_raises_init_error method to TestNode
193 2018-03-22T09:32:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5812273 John Newbery: [Tests] Require exact match in assert_start_raises_init_eror()
194 2018-03-22T09:32:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fae1374 MarcoFalke: qa: Allow for partial_match when checking init error...
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196 2018-03-22T09:33:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12718: [Tests] Require exact match in assert_start_raises_init_eror (jnewbery) (master...Mf1803-qaRegexInitError) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12718
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205 2018-03-22T10:12:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/185d48473e43...6d36f599f88e
206 2018-03-22T10:12:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c8330d4 MarcoFalke: qa: Use node.datadir instead of tmpdir in test framework
207 2018-03-22T10:12:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6d36f59 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12076: qa: Use node.datadir instead of tmpdir in test framework...
208 2018-03-22T10:12:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12076: qa: Use node.datadir instead of tmpdir in test framework (master...Mf1801-qaUseUtilDatadir) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12076
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210 2018-03-22T10:26:38  <wumpus> jnewbery: done
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226 2018-03-22T11:35:06  <timothy> is it normal that verificationprogress in getblockchaininfo are never 1?
227 2018-03-22T11:35:13  <timothy> when blockchain in synched too
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263 2018-03-22T13:29:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6d36f599f88e...a6926b065d65
264 2018-03-22T13:29:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1e0ee90 Martin Ankerl: Use best-fit strategy in Arena, now O(log(n)) instead O(n)...
265 2018-03-22T13:29:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5fbf7c4 Martin Ankerl: fix nits: variable naming, typos
266 2018-03-22T13:29:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a6926b0 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12048: Use best-fit strategy in Arena, now O(log(n)) instead O(n)...
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269 2018-03-22T13:29:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12048: Use best-fit strategy in Arena, now O(log(n)) instead O(n) (master...faster_arena) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12048
270 2018-03-22T13:32:09  <eklitzke> timothy: it's normal, it uses a heuristic to guess what the current tip is as a floating point height
271 2018-03-22T13:33:05  <timothy> eklitzke: so it's better to use something like bitcoin-cli getblockchaininfo | jq ".blocks == .headers" ?
272 2018-03-22T13:33:25  <timothy> to know when it's synched
273 2018-03-22T13:33:39  <eklitzke> i just check if progress is > 0.9999 but that seems reasonable to me too
274 2018-03-22T13:36:48  <echeveria> probably no reason to not expose isInitalBlockDownload there.
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277 2018-03-22T13:53:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #12755: [tests] Better stderr testing (master...better_stderr_testing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12755
278 2018-03-22T13:54:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery closed pull request #12379: [WIP] Better stderr testing in functional tests (master...test_full_stderr2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12379
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286 2018-03-22T14:15:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a6926b065d65...c290508a5ebf
287 2018-03-22T14:15:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8674e74 murrayn: Provide relevant error message if datadir is not writable.
288 2018-03-22T14:15:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c290508 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12630: Provide useful error message if datadir is not writable....
289 2018-03-22T14:15:43  *** aruns has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
290 2018-03-22T14:16:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12630: Provide useful error message if datadir is not writable. (master...datadir_writable) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12630
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296 2018-03-22T14:32:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #12756: [config] Remove blockmaxsize option (master...remove_blockmaxsize) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12756
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299 2018-03-22T14:53:12  <instagibbs> wumpus, #12742 looks ready
300 2018-03-22T14:53:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12742 | Make FastRandomContext support standard C++11 RNG interface by sipa · Pull Request #12742 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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313 2018-03-22T15:30:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #12757: Clarify include guard naming convention (master...include-guard) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12757
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329 2018-03-22T16:23:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c290508a5ebf...f686002a8eba
330 2018-03-22T16:23:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1ec1602 Pieter Wuille: Make FastRandomContext support standard C++11 RNG interface...
331 2018-03-22T16:23:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f686002 MarcoFalke: Merge #12742: Make FastRandomContext support standard C++11 RNG interface...
332 2018-03-22T16:24:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #12742: Make FastRandomContext support standard C++11 RNG interface (master...201803_stdrandom) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12742
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348 2018-03-22T18:11:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] eklitzke opened pull request #12759: [Docs] Improve formatting of developer notes (master...developer-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12759
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353 2018-03-22T18:24:17  <Randolf> I was looking at the FAQ at the Bitcoin.org web site, and I didn't find any mention of Segregated Witness nor the Lightning Network.  I'm wondering if an entry should be added?  https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#transactions
354 2018-03-22T18:25:27  <Randolf> The reason I ask about this is that I've seen questions in the #bitcoin channel and in other forums about this, and it seems that there is confusion regarding it.
355 2018-03-22T18:26:20  *** timothy has quit IRC
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357 2018-03-22T18:29:49  <sipa> Randolf: i'm sure they value contributions
358 2018-03-22T18:30:20  *** provoostenator has quit IRC
359 2018-03-22T18:31:02  <Randolf> sipa:  Is bitcoin.org's content not part of overall project?
360 2018-03-22T18:31:06  <BlueMatt> I believe bitcoin.org has gone mostly unmaintained for the past few months, so segwit stuff never landed before folks stopped working
361 2018-03-22T18:31:53  <Randolf> A few months is not a big deal to me.  I'd be happy to write something up for the FAQ.
362 2018-03-22T18:32:09  <sipa> Randolf: no, it's a site privately run website
363 2018-03-22T18:32:12  <Randolf> I just need to know a bit more about the Lightning Network support before I do that.
364 2018-03-22T18:32:13  *** Emcy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
365 2018-03-22T18:32:37  <sipa> Randolf: the project's website is bitcoincore.org
366 2018-03-22T18:32:42  <Randolf> sipa:  I know that Bitcoin.com is privately owned and operated by a BCash fanatic.  I was always under the impression that Bitcoin.org was the good one.
367 2018-03-22T18:33:01  <Randolf> Yeah, I know that BitcoinCore.org is part of the development side of things.
368 2018-03-22T18:33:26  <BlueMatt> no, bitcoin.org is *also* a privately-run website
369 2018-03-22T18:33:54  <BlueMatt> I mean it doesnt deliberately try to confuse people as to the bcash-v-bitcoin thing, so its better in that regard, sure
370 2018-03-22T18:33:59  <BlueMatt> but similar setup
371 2018-03-22T18:34:17  <BlueMatt> bitcoincore.org is the *only* site that is in any way associated with the bitcoin core project
372 2018-03-22T18:35:04  <Randolf> According to WHOIS, bitcoin.org is legally owned by "WhoisGuard, Inc."
373 2018-03-22T18:35:59  <wumpus> last I heard cobra was busy with a redesign of bitcoin.org, but yea maintenance for the site is not very active in general. That shouldn't dissuade you from contributing, though.
374 2018-03-22T18:36:06  *** hudaman has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
375 2018-03-22T18:36:36  <Randolf> wumpus:  I don't typically judge web sites by their update frequency.
376 2018-03-22T18:37:16  <Randolf> While it makes sense for some web sites (e.g., news), for most just having high quality content is sufficient.
377 2018-03-22T18:38:24  *** provoostenator has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
378 2018-03-22T18:39:43  <wumpus> doesn't seem there is a PR open yet adding informatino about segwit or lightning: https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/pulls
379 2018-03-22T18:42:38  *** rls has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
380 2018-03-22T18:46:27  <Randolf> wumpus:  Thanks for that link.  I'll try to get involved in that project.
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386 2018-03-22T18:55:31  <wumpus> thanks
387 2018-03-22T18:59:16  *** Victorsueca has quit IRC
388 2018-03-22T18:59:35  <dongcarl> Does anyone understand dwheeler's DDC method? Could be good for further ensuring binary security when integrated with Gitian.
389 2018-03-22T18:59:44  *** Victorsueca has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
390 2018-03-22T19:00:27  <wumpus> I don't know about it - but probably better to ask that after the meeting
391 2018-03-22T19:00:45  <sipa> meeting!
392 2018-03-22T19:00:45  <wumpus> #startmeeting
393 2018-03-22T19:00:45  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 22 19:00:45 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
394 2018-03-22T19:00:45  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
395 2018-03-22T19:01:06  <provoostenator> Hi
396 2018-03-22T19:01:13  <morcos> kind of here
397 2018-03-22T19:01:14  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
398 2018-03-22T19:01:20  <kanzure> hi.
399 2018-03-22T19:01:22  <cfields> hi
400 2018-03-22T19:01:24  <achow101> oh right, it's thursday
401 2018-03-22T19:01:33  <wumpus> yep
402 2018-03-22T19:01:37  <instagibbs> hi
403 2018-03-22T19:01:45  *** d_t has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
404 2018-03-22T19:01:52  <wumpus> any topic suggestions?
405 2018-03-22T19:02:18  <BlueMatt> <topic suggestion>
406 2018-03-22T19:02:22  <wumpus> #topic high priority for review
407 2018-03-22T19:02:24  <ryanofsky> #11536
408 2018-03-22T19:02:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11536 | Rename account to label where appropriate by ryanofsky · Pull Request #11536 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
409 2018-03-22T19:02:33  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
410 2018-03-22T19:02:40  <meshcollider> Hi
411 2018-03-22T19:03:12  <Randolf> Hello.
412 2018-03-22T19:03:18  <wumpus> ryanofsky: anothing specific you want to discuss regarding that pr?
413 2018-03-22T19:03:46  <ryanofsky> just curious about status, if it is ready to be merged or if it needs more review
414 2018-03-22T19:03:51  <wumpus> anything that needs to be added/removed from high priority for review?
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416 2018-03-22T19:04:20  <wumpus> ryanofsky: makes sense
417 2018-03-22T19:04:33  <sipa> i'll have a look in a minute
418 2018-03-22T19:04:42  <Randolf> PR #12759 looks like it would be an easy one to merge quickly.
419 2018-03-22T19:04:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12759 | [Docs] Improve formatting of developer notes by eklitzke · Pull Request #12759 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
420 2018-03-22T19:04:52  <wumpus> Randolf: that's not the topic though
421 2018-03-22T19:04:56  <Randolf> Oh, sorry.
422 2018-03-22T19:05:20  <wumpus> formatting of developer notes is not 'high priority for review' in any definition
423 2018-03-22T19:05:22  <Randolf> I though you were asking if there was anything to add/remove for review.
424 2018-03-22T19:05:28  <Randolf> I see.  Yes.
425 2018-03-22T19:05:48  <wumpus> high priority for review description is: These either block other important work in progress, or are necessary for backport to a minor release.
426 2018-03-22T19:06:18  <Randolf> Thank you.
427 2018-03-22T19:06:29  <wumpus> if something can be merged it's better to let me know outside the meeting
428 2018-03-22T19:06:39  <wumpus> anyhow, it seems people are happy with the current set, next topic
429 2018-03-22T19:06:42  <provoostenator> Topic suggestion: Gitter (we talked about this recently as a way to lower barrier for new contributors, compared to IRC)
430 2018-03-22T19:06:49  <jimpo> I've already got one in high pri for review list, but #11857 is more of a blocker for my work
431 2018-03-22T19:06:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11857 | Build tx index in parallel with validation by jimpo · Pull Request #11857 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
432 2018-03-22T19:07:04  <sipa> jimpo: agree that seems a better candidate for now
433 2018-03-22T19:07:08  <wumpus> jimpo: swap it out?
434 2018-03-22T19:07:13  <jimpo> Yep
435 2018-03-22T19:07:35  <sipa> can i have #12714 on the list?
436 2018-03-22T19:07:37  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12714 | Introduce interface for signing providers by sipa · Pull Request #12714 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
437 2018-03-22T19:07:45  <wumpus> jimpo: done
438 2018-03-22T19:08:03  <wumpus> sipa: done
439 2018-03-22T19:08:28  <wumpus> #topic Rename account to label where appropriate (ryanofsky)
440 2018-03-22T19:08:51  <provoostenator> That PR seems more or less ready to go, right?
441 2018-03-22T19:08:52  <wumpus> <ryanofsky> just curious about status, if it is ready to be merged or if it needs more review
442 2018-03-22T19:09:06  <meshcollider> It has 3 tested acks and a utACK already, looks very close if not ready
443 2018-03-22T19:09:08  <wumpus> ok!
444 2018-03-22T19:09:14  <achow101> I thought that was supposed to go after #7729?
445 2018-03-22T19:09:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7729 | rpc: introduce label API for wallet by laanwj · Pull Request #7729 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
446 2018-03-22T19:09:18  <ryanofsky> yeah, i think it's ready
447 2018-03-22T19:09:20  <achow101> or did I get the order backwards
448 2018-03-22T19:09:31  <meshcollider> Yeah other way around achow101
449 2018-03-22T19:09:33  <wumpus> if it's ready it should go in
450 2018-03-22T19:09:39  <sipa> achow101: 12714 is just a first step taken out of 7729
451 2018-03-22T19:09:46  <achow101> oh, ok
452 2018-03-22T19:09:46  <sipa> topic suggestion: what's up with #12694 and next steps?
453 2018-03-22T19:09:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12694 | Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs by achow101 · Pull Request #12694 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
454 2018-03-22T19:09:57  <meshcollider> Topic suggestion: EOL date for 0.13 ( https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/528 )
455 2018-03-22T19:10:29  <wumpus> #topic gitter (provoostenator)
456 2018-03-22T19:10:44  <BlueMatt> it'd have to be mirrored to irc
457 2018-03-22T19:10:56  <sipa> gitter has an IRC interface
458 2018-03-22T19:10:57  <BlueMatt> bidirectionally, that is
459 2018-03-22T19:11:09  <sipa> as in, you can connect to it as an IRC server
460 2018-03-22T19:11:10  <BlueMatt> sipa: that requires we all move our bouncers, I think thats more than its worth
461 2018-03-22T19:11:11  <wumpus> I've never used gitter, but I'm not going to join any more chat services
462 2018-03-22T19:11:27  <sipa> well what's the context?
463 2018-03-22T19:11:32  <luke-jr> what is it?
464 2018-03-22T19:11:34  <sipa> i don't think we're planning to move this channel...
465 2018-03-22T19:11:37  <BlueMatt> its my impression it can be bidirectionally mirrored to irc, which would be fine, but I'm not sure how much its worth
466 2018-03-22T19:11:42  <Randolf> I've tried other chat services, and they're just not as good as IRC.
467 2018-03-22T19:11:52  <BlueMatt> sipa: its some newfangled slack-like bullshit that is "for open source projects"
468 2018-03-22T19:11:54  <wumpus> mirroring sounds fine to me, if ti doesn't increase the noise level too much
469 2018-03-22T19:12:11  <sipa> BlueMatt: i know; i've used it for another project before and it works pretty well
470 2018-03-22T19:12:18  <achow101> Isn't the idea to make it easier for people to start contributing?
471 2018-03-22T19:12:20  <sipa> but i'm wondering why it's being brought up here?
472 2018-03-22T19:12:21  <wumpus> IIRC monero-dev has a mirroring-bot as well and it works there
473 2018-03-22T19:12:27  <luke-jr> IRC is easy
474 2018-03-22T19:12:34  <sipa> provoostenator: ?
475 2018-03-22T19:12:35  <achow101> I don't think it's hard to setup a mirroring bot at all
476 2018-03-22T19:12:39  *** testweb-morcos has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
477 2018-03-22T19:12:49  <provoostenator> IRC is a pain to setup because of the need for a bouncer
478 2018-03-22T19:12:56  <testweb-morcos> so easy, can't we just tell people how to do this
479 2018-03-22T19:13:19  <sipa> https://github.com/finnp/gitter-irc-bot
480 2018-03-22T19:13:20  <wumpus> so - anyhow, if you want to try setting up a mirroring bot, seems people are ok with it
481 2018-03-22T19:13:21  <achow101> provoostenator: IMO, no. we have a public log of this channel, so if someone isn't online, they can read that
482 2018-03-22T19:13:22  <luke-jr> provoostenator: if someone wants a bouncer (it's not needed), point them at Quassel
483 2018-03-22T19:13:22  <provoostenator> So it probably keeps at least some new devs from reaching out.
484 2018-03-22T19:13:26  *** moneyball has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
485 2018-03-22T19:13:34  <wumpus> luke-jr: +1 for quassel
486 2018-03-22T19:14:04  <achow101> also, there's already a "bitcoin core community" slack that we can use instead of setting up some new service
487 2018-03-22T19:14:05  <Randolf> There are many different IRC clients available (including some web-based clients).  The problem with a lot of these proprietary messengers is that the options for client software is limited.
488 2018-03-22T19:14:09  <wumpus> though if someone can't get IRC to work, I'm not sure how much of a dev they really are
489 2018-03-22T19:14:11  <morcos> webchat.freenode.net is trivial for non-tech people, we should just have simple instructions for using that in some obviouse locations
490 2018-03-22T19:14:23  <luke-jr> achow101: I hope that gets shut down in a month
491 2018-03-22T19:14:45  *** dafunkiz_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
492 2018-03-22T19:15:05  <jimpo> +1 webchat.freenode.net
493 2018-03-22T19:15:11  *** testweb-morcos has quit IRC
494 2018-03-22T19:15:17  <luke-jr> morcos: +1
495 2018-03-22T19:15:22  <dongcarl> Does webchat.freenode.net work for unregistered?
496 2018-03-22T19:15:29  <luke-jr> dongcarl: yes
497 2018-03-22T19:15:29  <Randolf> dongcarl:  Yes.
498 2018-03-22T19:15:30  <provoostenator> I'm fine with better instructions for IRC too, especially if a Gitter bridge is too painful to setup. Agree that monitoring multiple chat things is not a good idea.
499 2018-03-22T19:15:53  <luke-jr> achow101: (Slack is removing IRC support)
500 2018-03-22T19:16:01  <achow101> luke-jr: they are??!!
501 2018-03-22T19:16:06  <achow101> well that sucks
502 2018-03-22T19:16:08  <luke-jr> yep
503 2018-03-22T19:16:10  <cfields> yep
504 2018-03-22T19:16:12  <provoostenator> Not a fan of Slack and it's closed nature.
505 2018-03-22T19:16:14  <sipa> slack had IRC support?
506 2018-03-22T19:16:21  * Randolf laughs
507 2018-03-22T19:16:23  <dongcarl> and removing XMPP
508 2018-03-22T19:16:25  <MarcoFalke> instructions are basically google for "webchat irc"
509 2018-03-22T19:16:32  <BlueMatt> slack is garbage
510 2018-03-22T19:16:33  <luke-jr> sipa: yes, until next month, you can login to slacks with an IRC client
511 2018-03-22T19:16:37  <wumpus> slack is terrible, how can a chat client use so much resources
512 2018-03-22T19:16:39  *** drexl has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
513 2018-03-22T19:16:39  <cfields> sipa: yea, they had a bridge you could enable. Only reason I idle on a few slack channels.
514 2018-03-22T19:16:58  <sipa> but the fact that that bitcoin core slack exists, and has people discussing things there who are not here, is probably a sign that there exists an actual barrier
515 2018-03-22T19:16:59  <achow101> we can add a link in the readme that points to webchat.freenode
516 2018-03-22T19:16:59  <Randolf> wumpus:  Discord uses a lot of resources too.  I tried it for a while but stopped.
517 2018-03-22T19:17:04  <luke-jr> that's why I was on the Core slack at all
518 2018-03-22T19:17:14  <provoostenator> wumpus: that's just Electron JS stuff taking up lots of memory.
519 2018-03-22T19:17:20  <wumpus> achow101: FWIW the reason we haven't done that is to avoid people going here for suport questions
520 2018-03-22T19:17:21  <luke-jr> sipa: I think the barrier is mobile software
521 2018-03-22T19:17:28  <sipa> luke-jr: perhaps
522 2018-03-22T19:17:39  <dongcarl> slack-to-IRC mirror?
523 2018-03-22T19:17:51  *** anome has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
524 2018-03-22T19:17:56  <sipa> i've heard several smart people complain about IRC being hard to use, though
525 2018-03-22T19:17:57  <wumpus> a bit of a a barrier isn't a bad thing, this channel is really only for development, not 'core discussion'
526 2018-03-22T19:17:59  *** JackH has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
527 2018-03-22T19:18:00  <achow101> maybe we should start pointing people to https://bitcoincore.org/en/contribute/
528 2018-03-22T19:18:02  <jimpo> wumpus: In the contributing guide though?
529 2018-03-22T19:18:05  <achow101> it has all the links and instructions
530 2018-03-22T19:18:11  <luke-jr> sipa: ask for details? ☺
531 2018-03-22T19:18:19  <jimpo> Putting instructions for webchat.freenode and the IRC logs?
532 2018-03-22T19:18:28  <jimpo> Link to the logs is almost more valuable
533 2018-03-22T19:18:31  <BlueMatt> sipa: we need to kill the fucking slack
534 2018-03-22T19:18:35  <Randolf> sipa:  Many smart people have trouble using computers in general.  Oh well.
535 2018-03-22T19:18:40  <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, i agree
536 2018-03-22T19:18:44  <BlueMatt> or at least rename it Bitcoin Community, not Bitcoin Core....
537 2018-03-22T19:18:59  <sipa> BlueMatt: but the fact that it exists is probably a sign that things can be improved
538 2018-03-22T19:19:11  <wumpus> ok, time for next topic I think
539 2018-03-22T19:19:14  <sipa> :)
540 2018-03-22T19:19:39  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: are you here today?
541 2018-03-22T19:19:40  <wumpus> #topic what's up with #12694 and next steps? (sipa)
542 2018-03-22T19:19:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12694 | Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs by achow101 · Pull Request #12694 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
543 2018-03-22T19:19:54  <sipa> achow101: what is the issue right now?
544 2018-03-22T19:19:57  <achow101> 12694 is a bug fix because I forgot a line of code
545 2018-03-22T19:20:03  <achow101> it got lost in a rebase somewhere
546 2018-03-22T19:20:07  *** rls has quit IRC
547 2018-03-22T19:20:09  <sipa> then we should just merge it
548 2018-03-22T19:20:11  <achow101> next steps are #12605
549 2018-03-22T19:20:11  <sipa> how bad is it?
550 2018-03-22T19:20:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12605 | High level road map for coin selection changes · Issue #12605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
551 2018-03-22T19:20:35  *** jojeyh has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
552 2018-03-22T19:20:38  <achow101> it gets messed up when people use preset inputs, but not too bad I think
553 2018-03-22T19:20:49  <sipa> can you define "messed up" ?
554 2018-03-22T19:20:53  <achow101> I think BnB will be missed when that happens, but there's no guarantee
555 2018-03-22T19:21:05  *** rls has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
556 2018-03-22T19:21:05  <sipa> i see
557 2018-03-22T19:21:30  <achow101> the preset inputs use actual value, but BnB uses effective value. So using both simultaneously can result in some strange behavior, particularly with fees
558 2018-03-22T19:21:43  <sipa> what do you think about fixing BnB to work correctly with preset inputs (before also swapping out the fallback selection?)
559 2018-03-22T19:21:55  *** anome has quit IRC
560 2018-03-22T19:21:59  <wumpus> yes seems #12694 is ready for merge
561 2018-03-22T19:22:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12694 | Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs by achow101 · Pull Request #12694 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
562 2018-03-22T19:22:07  <sipa> as i expect that swapping out the fallback selections may take some time
563 2018-03-22T19:22:09  <achow101> it requires switching everything over to use effective value
564 2018-03-22T19:22:18  <sipa> hmm
565 2018-03-22T19:22:33  <sipa> which is something you'd do anyway for the new fallback strategy anyway?
566 2018-03-22T19:22:36  <achow101> yes
567 2018-03-22T19:22:38  <sipa> gotcha
568 2018-03-22T19:23:05  <achow101> I started working on using random selection as a fallback here: https://github.com/achow101/bitcoin/tree/srd-fallback
569 2018-03-22T19:24:01  <sipa> ok
570 2018-03-22T19:24:06  <wumpus> nice
571 2018-03-22T19:24:08  <sipa> thanks, that clarified things
572 2018-03-22T19:24:45  <wumpus> ok, any other topics?
573 2018-03-22T19:24:51  <morcos> one sec
574 2018-03-22T19:25:06  <meshcollider> EOL date for 0.13 ( https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/528 )
575 2018-03-22T19:25:06  <morcos> We have to as a project get on the same page for at least near term priorities on coin selection
576 2018-03-22T19:25:35  <morcos> how do we weight privacy vs fee cost vs utxo set effects in aggregate
577 2018-03-22T19:26:01  <luke-jr> users should get a choice per-tx ideally
578 2018-03-22T19:26:02  <sipa> how do you even measure privacy?
579 2018-03-22T19:26:05  <wumpus> #topic coin selection priorities
580 2018-03-22T19:26:17  <morcos> previously we had said we can't worsen the overall utxo set effects, but this is a tough bar to meet given how "dumb" existing coin selection is
581 2018-03-22T19:26:19  <sipa> without metric, there isn't even something to optimize for, even if we knew what we wanted
582 2018-03-22T19:26:58  <wumpus> if possible we'd not want to reduce privacy at all
583 2018-03-22T19:27:05  <luke-jr> sipa: ideally coinjoin everything with other users sending bitcoins at the same time. :p
584 2018-03-22T19:27:11  <it-3276294625> I can write an bitcoin bruteforce generator
585 2018-03-22T19:27:27  <morcos> well the question is, is it ok to make the coin selction consoldiate inputs less by default?  in exchange for perhaps increasing privacy and saving on fees?
586 2018-03-22T19:27:38  <wumpus> luke-jr: he's talking about short-term
587 2018-03-22T19:28:10  <morcos> my view, is that we shouldn't expect any wallet to do anything that is better for the local user, so if there is an aggregate net negative effect on the utxo
588 2018-03-22T19:28:22  <luke-jr> morcos: depends on where you're sending them
589 2018-03-22T19:28:27  <morcos> then that needs to be addressed with consensus costing changes in the long run (such as segwit)
590 2018-03-22T19:28:43  <morcos> and we should give up trying to be overally globally nice at the expense of our own users in core
591 2018-03-22T19:28:57  <morcos> for instance we currently spend non-economic inputs
592 2018-03-22T19:29:02  <meshcollider> morcos: by consolidate less, you mean the total number would remain roughly the same? Or actively worsen
593 2018-03-22T19:29:08  <luke-jr> consensus changes aren't that simple nor obvious
594 2018-03-22T19:29:54  <morcos> meshcollider: i don't know... i don't trust the simulations that much, but it would be obvious from the algorithm that the utxo set growth by core wallets would be increased somewhat
595 2018-03-22T19:29:59  <luke-jr> demurrage would probably make sense, but that would be so controversial it would never happen
596 2018-03-22T19:30:19  <morcos> luke-jr: agreed, and we don't know now what the long term bottlenecks really are, so we couldn't even design the right answer , let alone implement it
597 2018-03-22T19:30:34  *** HFRadical has quit IRC
598 2018-03-22T19:30:34  <it-3276294625> How bitcoin keygen is build , between what parameters
599 2018-03-22T19:30:47  <sipa> it-3276294625: not now; we're in a meeting
600 2018-03-22T19:30:55  <it-3276294625> Ok
601 2018-03-22T19:31:29  <wumpus> bitcoinwarezkeygencracker
602 2018-03-22T19:31:34  *** HFRadical has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
603 2018-03-22T19:31:44  * Randolf laughs
604 2018-03-22T19:31:50  * luke-jr would not be surprised if that was a thing.
605 2018-03-22T19:31:54  <wumpus> #topic EOL date for 0.13 (meshcollider)
606 2018-03-22T19:31:55  <morcos> if murchandamus were here, i think he'd say that of course nothing is going to be as good for the utxo set as the existing core algo.   my argument is therefore we should allow ourself to make it worse, since thats not what anyone would design from scratch
607 2018-03-22T19:32:26  <it-3276294625> wumpus: steel not answering to my question :)) what are the parameters that the code is generated
608 2018-03-22T19:32:34  <wumpus> it-3276294625: go away
609 2018-03-22T19:32:49  <meshcollider> morcos: yeah I think most users are more concerned with the fees, they can consolidate inputs themselves when fees are low
610 2018-03-22T19:32:53  <wumpus> morcos: sorry! thought the topic was over
611 2018-03-22T19:33:00  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sipa
612 2018-03-22T19:33:01  <morcos> no problem
613 2018-03-22T19:33:28  <meshcollider> But consolidation worsens the coin selection performance does it?
614 2018-03-22T19:33:29  <morcos> meshcollider: yeah and i'm in favor building iin functionality to do that in core too...  we should try to make it easy to be a good utxo citizen
615 2018-03-22T19:33:32  <jcorgan> a rigorous definition of "loss of privacy" would go a long way toward being able to measure it
616 2018-03-22T19:33:40  <morcos> meshcollider: what do you mean by performance?
617 2018-03-22T19:33:50  <achow101> morcos: less utxo's make BnB less effective
618 2018-03-22T19:34:14  *** moneyball has quit IRC
619 2018-03-22T19:34:18  <meshcollider> How well it can select inputs, a larger variety of inputs improves the selection doesn't it?
620 2018-03-22T19:34:20  <morcos> achow101: well, we disagree on how much difference BnB makes.  i think exact matches are rare enough that trying to improve their frequency is a neglible effect
621 2018-03-22T19:34:32  *** sipa sets mode: -o sipa
622 2018-03-22T19:34:45  <sipa> morcos: in high-fee times i think they matter a lot, no?
623 2018-03-22T19:34:52  <morcos> exact matches?
624 2018-03-22T19:35:40  <sipa> within a window of the cost of creating change, yes
625 2018-03-22T19:36:09  <morcos> i think they are still rare, but unforutnately neither of us have any data, b/c we dont know what core txs are from big wallets and what are from small
626 2018-03-22T19:36:18  <sipa> fair
627 2018-03-22T19:36:47  <morcos> but sure, i mean all you are arguing is maybe loosening consolidation isn't making things as bad as i'm saying
628 2018-03-22T19:36:50  <morcos> great
629 2018-03-22T19:37:32  <morcos> it sounds like we're mostly in agreement we can move in this direction, just not #reckless ly
630 2018-03-22T19:37:43  <luke-jr> maybe we could have an opt-in statistics report at some point? just with the "exact match found? y/n" and vague wallet classifications?
631 2018-03-22T19:37:58  <Randolf> luke-jr:  That's an interesting idea.
632 2018-03-22T19:38:11  <meshcollider> "Bitcoin core would like to collect and share anonymous usage data with the developers"
633 2018-03-22T19:38:14  <morcos> luke-jr: i certainly think that would be useful, but who would trust that
634 2018-03-22T19:38:14  <luke-jr> delayed randomly to prevent fingerprinting
635 2018-03-22T19:38:14  <meshcollider> Heh
636 2018-03-22T19:38:33  <luke-jr> morcos: design it so the data can be public without revealing anything dangerous
637 2018-03-22T19:38:35  <morcos> and next thing you know we're being subpoenaed for it
638 2018-03-22T19:38:40  <morcos> perhaps
639 2018-03-22T19:38:44  <Randolf> morcos:  I think a lot of users probably would use that feature.  I would because I'd see it as a way to support the future development of Bitcoin.
640 2018-03-22T19:38:58  <achow101> luke-jr: make it so public that everything is publicly logged
641 2018-03-22T19:39:13  <meshcollider> It'd be cool if it just wrote to a data file in the directory so they could just upload that file if they want to help
642 2018-03-22T19:39:14  <morcos> yeah taht would be the only way
643 2018-03-22T19:39:14  <luke-jr> achow101: yeah, we could literally have a site with all data received
644 2018-03-22T19:39:39  <sipa> i'd be against that
645 2018-03-22T19:40:00  <luke-jr> which part?
646 2018-03-22T19:40:12  <sipa> having a single site that collecta data
647 2018-03-22T19:40:15  <wumpus> would definitely be against automatic uploading
648 2018-03-22T19:40:21  <Randolf> meshcollider:  I don't like that -- people should be asked first.  The problem is that spyware could copy such a file.
649 2018-03-22T19:40:23  <cfields> if nothing else, seems the data would be skewed against the privacy metric anyway?
650 2018-03-22T19:40:38  <sipa> cfields: right
651 2018-03-22T19:40:54  <jcorgan> some ideas are just better left unexplored
652 2018-03-22T19:41:36  <meshcollider> Ok are we moving to next topic now?
653 2018-03-22T19:42:02  *** jtimon has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
654 2018-03-22T19:42:04  <Randolf> sipa:  Decentralized would certainly be better.
655 2018-03-22T19:42:14  <meshcollider> Just a quick one, to discuss the EOL date for 0.13 since the lifecycle page on bitcoincore.org needs an update
656 2018-03-22T19:42:25  <meshcollider> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/528
657 2018-03-22T19:42:28  <morcos> ready to move on
658 2018-03-22T19:42:39  <Randolf> meshcollider:  I think the date suggested there is reasonable.
659 2018-03-22T19:42:41  <luke-jr> I still use 0.13 for my cold wallet, but I'm not willing to commit to maintaining it
660 2018-03-22T19:43:20  <MarcoFalke> It is already unmaintained
661 2018-03-22T19:43:52  <wumpus> meshcollider: looks good to me
662 2018-03-22T19:44:16  <meshcollider> Sweet, jnewbery just wanted to have it discussed here
663 2018-03-22T19:44:19  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: then it shouldbe a past date
664 2018-03-22T19:44:31  <meshcollider> luke-jr: there are 2 dates
665 2018-03-22T19:44:35  <MarcoFalke> ^
666 2018-03-22T19:44:45  <meshcollider> One is end of maintenance, the other is full EOL
667 2018-03-22T19:44:46  <luke-jr> I know
668 2018-03-22T19:45:16  <meshcollider> Ok that's that then. Any other topics?
669 2018-03-22T19:45:32  <wumpus> right, maintenance means that there could be general bugfix releases on that branch, EOL means even cricitcal security patches won't be backported to that
670 2018-03-22T19:46:06  <luke-jr> which is what I was referring to anyway
671 2018-03-22T19:46:15  <achow101> i think luke-jr is saying that 0.13 is already past EOL
672 2018-03-22T19:46:24  <jnewbery> date seems fine to me. Is there any convention we use to set the EOL date?
673 2018-03-22T19:46:38  <Randolf> achow101:  Then perhaps the EOL date should be changed to today?
674 2018-03-22T19:46:54  <wumpus> +/- a year after end maintenance
675 2018-03-22T19:47:16  <meshcollider> Note that 0.12 EOL was only 3 weeks ago
676 2018-03-22T19:47:25  <luke-jr> achow101: well, that depends on the rest of you all; if someone will backport critical fixes..
677 2018-03-22T19:47:55  <luke-jr> I just meant that I'm not willing to commit to doing it longer ☺
678 2018-03-22T19:48:24  *** grafcaps has quit IRC
679 2018-03-22T19:49:08  <wumpus> me neither
680 2018-03-22T19:49:13  <wumpus> any other topics?
681 2018-03-22T19:49:58  <achow101> luke-jr: I doubt there will be anything that requires another 0.13 release in the next 4 months anyways
682 2018-03-22T19:50:57  <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blame/f686002a8eba820a40ac2f34a6e8f57b2b5cc54c/doc/release-process.md#L297 could be modified to include "Update https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/blob/master/_includes/posts/_maintenance-table.md"
683 2018-03-22T19:51:23  <achow101> while we're talking about this, maybe we should also set 0.14's EOL date
684 2018-03-22T19:52:17  <meshcollider> Feb 1 2019?
685 2018-03-22T19:52:49  <jnewbery> meshcollider: +1
686 2018-03-22T19:52:54  <Randolf> achow101:  This starts to venture into another question:  How many previous versions should be supported/non-EOL?
687 2018-03-22T19:53:02  <Randolf> Should there be a maximum number?
688 2018-03-22T19:53:44  <jcorgan> said number would be dynamic an depend entirely on the willingness of volunteers to do it
689 2018-03-22T19:53:47  <achow101> Randolf: IIRC we always did current, previous as maintenance, and one before that critical updates only
690 2018-03-22T19:54:00  <luke-jr> Randolf: all depends on what developers are willing to maintain
691 2018-03-22T19:54:20  <luke-jr> several years ago, I maintained some versions for years
692 2018-03-22T19:55:01  <wumpus> also depends on the scope of the problem, if it's a simple backport, it's easy to roll another 0.13 version anyway, if it takes a full-on refactor first, no one will likely bother
693 2018-03-22T19:55:03  <jcorgan> if there were an user/organization that was dependent upon security and/or bug fixes in an older, unmaintained version, they could certainly pay industry rates to a competent person to do so
694 2018-03-22T19:55:09  *** Emcy has quit IRC
695 2018-03-22T19:55:13  <luke-jr> jcorgan: +1
696 2018-03-22T19:55:30  <Randolf> luke-jr++
697 2018-03-22T19:56:12  <sipa> (luke) - (jr++) ?
698 2018-03-22T19:56:14  <Randolf> wumpus:  I can see that if it's a major job, the recommendation will be to upgrade to a newer version anyway.
699 2018-03-22T19:56:26  <wumpus> Randolf: yes
700 2018-03-22T19:56:26  <luke-jr> sipa: lol
701 2018-03-22T19:56:45  *** booyah_ is now known as booyah
702 2018-03-22T19:57:01  <jcorgan> the issue would come up with someone who maintains and uses a modified branch
703 2018-03-22T19:57:26  *** Emcy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
704 2018-03-22T19:57:31  <jcorgan> it might be easier to pay someone to backport something than to try to roll their changes forward
705 2018-03-22T19:57:48  <luke-jr> depends on what it is
706 2018-03-22T19:57:58  <jcorgan> sure
707 2018-03-22T19:58:12  <Randolf> sipa:  I'm used to the karma bot in the #perl channel.  :)
708 2018-03-22T19:58:22  <achow101> on a semi-related note, should we remove the branches for EOL versions
709 2018-03-22T19:58:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jimpo opened pull request #12760: Docs: Improve documentation on standard communication channels. (master...communication-channels) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12760
710 2018-03-22T19:58:42  <wumpus> achow101: probably
711 2018-03-22T19:59:34  *** dafunkiz_ has quit IRC
712 2018-03-22T19:59:43  <wumpus> has been a while since I last cleaned up branches
713 2018-03-22T20:00:01  <sipa> PLOINK
714 2018-03-22T20:00:09  <wumpus> #endmeeting
715 2018-03-22T20:00:09  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Mar 22 20:00:09 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
716 2018-03-22T20:00:09  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-22-19.00.html
717 2018-03-22T20:00:09  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-22-19.00.txt
718 2018-03-22T20:00:09  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-03-22-19.00.log.html
719 2018-03-22T20:00:15  <luke-jr> sipa lays down the time limit
720 2018-03-22T20:00:50  <luke-jr> heading home, this worked out well; bbl
721 2018-03-22T20:00:55  <Randolf> Take care luke-jr.
722 2018-03-22T20:01:14  <Randolf> Good day to everyone.  That seemed to be a very productive meeting.
723 2018-03-22T20:01:16  *** AaronvanW has quit IRC
724 2018-03-22T20:01:25  <wumpus> later
725 2018-03-22T20:01:50  <achow101> wumpus: merge #12694
726 2018-03-22T20:01:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12694 | Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs by achow101 · Pull Request #12694 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
727 2018-03-22T20:01:53  <achow101> ?
728 2018-03-22T20:02:00  *** dafunkiz_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
729 2018-03-22T20:02:55  <wumpus> yes
730 2018-03-22T20:05:05  *** tryphe_ has quit IRC
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735 2018-03-22T20:12:02  *** larafale has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
736 2018-03-22T20:13:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f686002a8eba...9552dfb1f632
737 2018-03-22T20:13:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6ef9982 Andrew Chow: Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs...
738 2018-03-22T20:13:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 081bf54 Andrew Chow: Test that BnB is not used when there are preset inputs
739 2018-03-22T20:13:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9552dfb Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #12694: Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs...
740 2018-03-22T20:14:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #12694: Actually disable BnB when there are preset inputs (master...fix-preset-coins-bnb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12694
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755 2018-03-22T20:28:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9552dfb1f632...cead84b72d27
756 2018-03-22T20:28:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 045eeb8 Russell Yanofsky: Rename account to label where appropriate...
757 2018-03-22T20:28:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d2527bd Russell Yanofsky: Rename wallet_accounts.py test...
758 2018-03-22T20:28:36  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cead84b Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #11536: Rename account to label where appropriate...
759 2018-03-22T20:28:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #11536: Rename account to label where appropriate (master...pr/acct) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11536
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782 2018-03-22T21:14:33  <justin__> any reason not to further lower relay fee even 1 sat/byte seems expensive nowadays or am I just cheap? :P
783 2018-03-22T21:21:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #12757: Clarify include guard naming convention (master...include-guard) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12757
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788 2018-03-22T21:47:37  <luke-jr> justin__: any lower probably won't get relayed, but off-topic here.
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