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   22018-05-29T00:01:03  <achow101> jhfrontz: I think it's supposed to be modifying the vm /etc/sudoers file as part of the setup. I believe that is part of whatever vmbuilder does. however I think vmbuilder had an update recently which breaks gitian
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  202018-05-29T01:30:29  <achow101> if anyone wants to try gitian building with docker instead of lxc or kvm, I have an experimental branch for that: https://github.com/achow101/gitian-builder/tree/docker
  212018-05-29T01:30:51  <achow101> It seems to work, but I don't know if it produces the same binaries yet
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 6532018-05-29T03:00:10  <achow101> damnit the binaries don't match
 6542018-05-29T03:10:58  <achow101> oh wait, I built the wrong binaries :/
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 6692018-05-29T06:16:24  <jonasschnelli> sipa: one thing that stuck with me over night,.. if the Bech32 BCH can detect 4 chars and correct two (length <=89), wouldn't it be trivial to brute-force the eventually present other 2 errors? Brute-force to fit the error-free checksum.
 6702018-05-29T06:21:43  <sipa> jonasschnelli: i don't understand
 6712018-05-29T06:22:17  <sipa> it's a very fundamental property that you can only correct half
 6722018-05-29T06:22:26  <sipa> of what you can detect
 6732018-05-29T06:23:11  <jonasschnelli> sipa: Okay. But wouldn't you know that there are two other errors (since it can detect 4) and where those errors are (index)?
 6742018-05-29T06:24:20  <jonasschnelli> I guess I get the error correction right...
 6752018-05-29T06:25:10  <jonasschnelli> I where under the assumption that if you have a encoded key with 4 errors, it will point out those 4 errors, ... the BCH  correction can fix two errors, so decode again after correction and figure out where the other two error where made....
 6762018-05-29T06:25:34  <jonasschnelli> (sry, no need for decode again)
 6772018-05-29T06:27:31  <sipa> jonasschnelli: the point is that there may be multiple ways of making 4 changes to your invalid codeword to turn it into a valid one; but at most one will be the correct one
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 6792018-05-29T06:28:47  <sipa> if any two code words are at least different in 5 positions (which is the case for bech32), making up to 4 changes to a valid codeword will never result in another valid.codeword, so you'll never fail to detect
 6802018-05-29T06:29:21  <sipa> however, if 3 errors are made, it may be possible to "correct" it by modifying two other unrelated positions
 6812018-05-29T06:29:32  <sipa> resulting in a valid, but incorrect codeword
 6822018-05-29T06:30:47  <jonasschnelli> I'm trying to understand if there is a more "forensic" approach of reconstructing an 4 chars error BCH codeword.. if you have an address (or another validation-indicator) of you now-invalid key, brute-forcing and comparing against your validation-indicator could be possible?
 6832018-05-29T06:31:27  <jonasschnelli> For keys, error correction could be very cpu-intense IMO
 6842018-05-29T06:31:53  <sipa> yes, you can list decode
 6852018-05-29T06:32:04  <sipa> if you accept there are multiple possible decodi gs
 6862018-05-29T06:32:12  <sipa> and you can tey all of them
 6872018-05-29T06:32:43  <sipa> what we mean with "error correcting" power is how many errors there can be up to the point where you can uniquely identify the error
 6882018-05-29T06:32:54  <jonasschnelli> Worst case stupid-dummy correction would brute forcing all 4 error positions with 32^4
 6892018-05-29T06:32:56  <sipa> you can alwaus go try to make more changes and see if that ends up with valid codes
 6902018-05-29T06:33:00  <sipa> yes
 6912018-05-29T06:33:29  <sipa> adding a few checksum characters is generally easier :)
 6922018-05-29T06:33:38  <jonasschnelli> Yes... I guess so. :)
 6932018-05-29T06:33:53  <sipa> but if there is a lot of money at stake, you should totally do list decoding
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 6952018-05-29T06:34:08  <jonasschnelli> This somehow makes me convinced that the Bech32 properties are not utterly bad, maybe feasible for private key encoding.
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 7052018-05-29T07:21:11  <ken2812221> achow101: I've tested your docker method and got the same binaries. Its setup is easier than Lxc's.
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 7112018-05-29T07:27:24  <sipa> ken2812221, achow101: you reproduced the same 0.16.1rc1 binaries as others using docker?
 7122018-05-29T07:29:35  <wumpus> at least all the signatures in the gitian.sigs repository match at this moment
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 7142018-05-29T07:31:14  <ken2812221> Yes, I built the binaries using both lxc and docker, they are the same.
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 7162018-05-29T07:32:38  <fanquake> ken2812221 Where is the docker method available?
 7172018-05-29T07:33:52  <ken2812221> achow101 mentioned that on top, https://github.com/achow101/gitian-builder/tree/docker
 7182018-05-29T07:34:23  <fanquake> ken2812221 thanks, will take a look
 7192018-05-29T07:34:24  <wumpus> oh I had to patch gverify to use gpg2 instead of gpg to be able to verify ken2812221's signatures at all
 7202018-05-29T07:34:34  <wumpus> gpg:                using ECDSA key 0x4B79F986CBDF8736
 7212018-05-29T07:34:34  <wumpus> gpg: BAD signature from "Chun Kuan Lee(ken2812221) <ken2812221@gmail.com>" [unknown]
 7222018-05-29T07:34:37  <wumpus> ken2812221: BAD SIGNATURE
 7232018-05-29T07:34:42  <wumpus> the other ones check out
 7242018-05-29T07:36:08  <wumpus> (it's a ?bad signature? this doesn't imply that your build differs)
 7252018-05-29T07:37:34  <wumpus> ken2812221: checking the assert manually - looks like your executables do match, but you need to re-sign it
 7262018-05-29T07:38:14  <wumpus> rm bitcoin-win-0.16-build.assert.sig && gpg2 --detach-sign bitcoin-win-0.16-build.assert     or something like that
 7272018-05-29T07:39:32  <wumpus> (but first check if verification fails there too)
 7282018-05-29T07:40:28  <ken2812221> OK, I'll check it
 7292018-05-29T07:41:52  <wumpus> (simply "gpg2 bitcoin-win-0.16-build.assert.gpg" in your 0.16.1rc1 directory should do it)
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 7332018-05-29T07:45:12  <wumpus> (I'm only insisting on the gpg2 thing because of Ubuntu 16.04 - in 18.04, gpg is gpg2 by default,thankfully...)
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 7382018-05-29T07:53:03  <wumpus> ken2812221: thanks, that fixed it
 7392018-05-29T07:54:38  <ken2812221> Sorry, maybe I did something wrong with my hardware key before.
 7402018-05-29T07:56:21  <wumpus> what kind of token do you use that supports ECDSA signing in hardware?
 7412018-05-29T07:57:45  <wumpus> seems even the most recent yubikey still does only RSA
 7422018-05-29T07:58:40  <ken2812221> ledger-nano-s
 7432018-05-29T07:59:29  <wumpus> thanks
 7442018-05-29T07:59:56  <wumpus> I didn't know that could be used with gpg :)
 7452018-05-29T08:05:53  <ken2812221> Yes it can. But the client is a third party software.
 7462018-05-29T08:07:48  <mryandao> would it be realistic to look at an api to integrate hardware wallet usage in Core?
 7472018-05-29T08:08:01  <mryandao> *designing an api
 7482018-05-29T08:09:11  <wumpus> though it's nistp256 not secpp256
 7492018-05-29T08:09:54  <wumpus> ruby is easier than I thought (patches gverify to take an arbitrary verification program) https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/pull/182
 7502018-05-29T08:10:23  <wumpus> mryandao: to make that feasible such an API should be generic, not 'just for Core'
 7512018-05-29T08:10:29  <wumpus> mryandao: jonasschnelli has been looking into this
 7522018-05-29T08:10:46  <jonasschnelli> mryandao: Yes.
 7532018-05-29T08:11:10  <jonasschnelli> BIP174 is a great basepoint...
 7542018-05-29T08:11:20  <jonasschnelli> Though its serialization format is not optimized for HWW/MCUs
 7552018-05-29T08:11:57  <jonasschnelli> For Core&HWW, the question is what standard we would follow... we can't use proprietary vendor specific USB communication
 7562018-05-29T08:12:07  <jonasschnelli> Ideally it would be similar to how SSH/GPG agents work
 7572018-05-29T08:12:15  <wumpus> it's kind of frustrating how this is different enough for standard smartcard crypto APIs that it requires something entirely new
 7582018-05-29T08:12:35  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. Those standard didn't bothered about verification...
 7592018-05-29T08:12:43  <wumpus> yes, definitely, there would need to be an external driver, and this standard should describe how to communicate with that
 7602018-05-29T08:12:44  <jonasschnelli> They are happy if the key is on the card...
 7612018-05-29T08:13:06  <jonasschnelli> Extra driver is something users dislike... thats why I once proposed the URI scheme.
 7622018-05-29T08:13:11  <wumpus> the details, such as how communication with the device happens, is up to the vendor
 7632018-05-29T08:13:21  <wumpus> we're not going to do low-level USB stuff in bitcoin core
 7642018-05-29T08:13:29  <mryandao> isnt there libusb?
 7652018-05-29T08:13:31  <jonasschnelli> Yes!
 7662018-05-29T08:13:37  * jonasschnelli stabs mryandao 
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 7682018-05-29T08:13:50  <wumpus> (nor link against libhid or any other nightmare abominations)
 7692018-05-29T08:13:57  <jonasschnelli> Core has already too much dependencies...
 7702018-05-29T08:14:02  <jonasschnelli> What we want is communicate with a "bridge-application"
 7712018-05-29T08:14:17  <wumpus> "> Extra driver is something users dislike" is there any other realistic option?!
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 7732018-05-29T08:15:01  <jonasschnelli> URI schemes would allow that an application opens "sign://<data>" where to OS would start the application that have registered sign://
 7742018-05-29T08:15:07  <wumpus> smartcards, yubikeys etc also have their own driver, it's not like gpg2 includes low-level support for all of them.
 7752018-05-29T08:15:17  <wumpus> so that's effectively a driver
 7762018-05-29T08:15:31  <wumpus> what you are documenting is the communication protocol with it, which could use an URI, sure...
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 7792018-05-29T08:16:02  <jonasschnelli> It would avoid a daemon and it would be portable (probably)
 7802018-05-29T08:16:21  <wumpus> sure, it could be a process that is launched on demand, it dosn't have to be an always-on daemon
 7812018-05-29T08:16:28  <mryandao> it wouldn't be that painful to install an agent like gpg i'd imagine
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 7832018-05-29T08:16:56  <wumpus> I also dislike things that have to run always, especially if it concerns the wallet, you want to be able to remove the device at any time anyway
 7842018-05-29T08:17:27  <wumpus> on the other hand, to be honest, at this point I'd prefer *any* standard for HW wallets to the jungle there is now, can always optimize the details later
 7852018-05-29T08:17:30  <mryandao> but the agent that's up 24/7 wouldnt be holding the keys no?
 7862018-05-29T08:19:14  <wumpus> it could, but for a HSM it wouldn't hold the keys itself, at most identifiers.
 7872018-05-29T08:20:10  <wumpus> though there could be a agent that uses, say, a CPU secure enclave instead of a real hardware wallet, that's up to the vendor
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 7912018-05-29T08:22:01  <mryandao> sounds like the painpoints alone warrant a workshop on integration of HSMs with Bitcoin
 7922018-05-29T08:22:05  <wumpus> (or if, say, TPM3.0 standard would include cryptocurrency wallet support, could use the motherboard TPM module)
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 7942018-05-29T08:22:57  <wumpus> in any case, the wallet software shouldn't need to care about those details at all
 7952018-05-29T08:23:32  <mryandao> i thought the community as a whole finds TPMs to be distasteful
 7962018-05-29T08:27:05  <wumpus> smartcards, security tokens, etc are essentially pluggable TPMs
 7972018-05-29T08:29:35  <wumpus> and in my opinion there are certainly distasteful uses of them, such as OS vendor lock-in and DRM, but this is getting off topic, I was just illustrating that there is a large range of possibilities.
 7982018-05-29T08:34:02  <wumpus> < mryandao> sounds like the painpoints alone warrant a workshop on integration of HSMs with Bitcoin <- I agree, it's something that could use more concentrated effort
 7992018-05-29T08:35:35  <wumpus> I've always been surprised how little the hardware wallets vendors care about this, they just carve out their little space with their own proprietary protocols and software, instead of starting some bitcoin HSM working group
 8002018-05-29T08:36:13  <wumpus> even if you don't care about "use of Bitcoin Core as wallet" (like Trezor), it seems that other wallets would benefit from the same
 8012018-05-29T08:36:16  <wumpus> anyhow </soapbox>
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 8052018-05-29T08:47:13  * sipa hopes bip174 will help
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 8112018-05-29T09:15:43  * wumpus hopes so too
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 8142018-05-29T09:50:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] harrymckinnon86 opened pull request #13338: Test (master...test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13338
 8152018-05-29T09:50:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] harrymckinnon86 closed pull request #13338: Test (master...test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13338
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 8772018-05-29T12:16:13  <jonasschnelli> roasbeef: have you considered hardware wallet during your aezeed specs? Is scrypt(n=32768, r=8, p=1) something that works on a tiny MCU (like those ones used by Trezor, Ledger, Bitbox)?
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 9072018-05-29T13:07:16  <promag> thoughts on #13160?
 9082018-05-29T13:07:19  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13160 | wallet: Unlock spent outputs by promag · Pull Request #13160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 9102018-05-29T13:12:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a315b79ad2b8...56fe3dc235a0
 9112018-05-29T13:12:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6d714c3 Pieter Wuille: Make coincontrol use IsSolvable to determine solvability
 9122018-05-29T13:12:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4e91820 Pieter Wuille: Make IsMine stop distinguishing solvable/unsolvable
 9132018-05-29T13:12:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b5802a9 Pieter Wuille: Simplify IsMine logic
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 9162018-05-29T13:13:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13142: Separate IsMine from solvability (master...201804_separate_ismine_solvable) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13142
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 9212018-05-29T13:25:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/56fe3dc235a0...3fd0c2336a12
 9222018-05-29T13:25:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 13c3a65 João Barbosa: Qt/Bugfix: fix handling default wallet with no name
 9232018-05-29T13:25:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3fd0c23 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13273: Qt/Bugfix: fix handling default wallet with no name...
 9242018-05-29T13:25:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13273: Qt/Bugfix: fix handling default wallet with no name (master...2018/05/loadwallet_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13273
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 9282018-05-29T13:28:49  <wumpus> promag: lgtm
 9292018-05-29T13:29:48  <wumpus> promag: so I think removing spent UTXOs from the locked set automatically is a better solution than the other PR, also the code change is cleaner, but it seems not many people weigh in
 9302018-05-29T13:29:58  <promag> right
 9312018-05-29T13:30:21  <promag> I also think other should give feedback there
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 9332018-05-29T13:31:16  <wumpus> I disagree with the opinion in the other PR that yours is 'a breaking change', I mean this is the behavior already, the only change is that the UTXOs don't linger around forever
 9342018-05-29T13:32:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3fd0c2336a12...70d354131379
 9352018-05-29T13:32:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fe16dd8 Wladimir J. van der Laan: net: Add option `-enablebip61` to configure sending of BIP61 notifications...
 9362018-05-29T13:32:27  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 87fe292 Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: Mention disabling BIP61 in bips.md
 9372018-05-29T13:32:28  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 70d3541 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13134: net: Add option `-enablebip61` to configure sending of BIP61 notifications...
 9382018-05-29T13:33:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13134: net: Add option `-enablebip61` to configure sending of BIP61 notifications (master...2018_05_optional_bip61) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13134
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 9422018-05-29T13:46:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #13339: wallet: Replace %w by wallet name in -walletnotify script (master...2018-05-walletnotify) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13339
 9432018-05-29T13:47:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13281: test: Move linters to test/lint, add readme (master...Mf1805-qaLint) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13281
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 9462018-05-29T13:51:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #13340: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation (master...move-check-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13340
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 9482018-05-29T13:52:00  <fanquake> wumpus #13340 is a trivial follow up to fix the doc nit
 9492018-05-29T13:52:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13340 | doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation by fanquake · Pull Request #13340 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 9552018-05-29T13:58:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2ac6315f44a8...e08c130c25ed
 9562018-05-29T13:58:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f44a0eb Jeff Frontz: Ensure gitian-build.sh uses bash...
 9572018-05-29T13:58:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e08c130 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13320: Ensure gitian-build.sh uses bash...
 9582018-05-29T13:59:20  <wumpus> fanquake: thanks!
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 9602018-05-29T14:01:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #13320: Ensure gitian-build.sh uses bash (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13320
 9612018-05-29T14:03:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e08c130c25ed...3a8e3f480612
 9622018-05-29T14:03:59  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 93843f6 fanquake: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation
 9632018-05-29T14:04:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3a8e3f4 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13340: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation...
 9642018-05-29T14:04:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13340: doc: remove leftover check-doc documentation (master...move-check-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13340
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10152018-05-29T15:49:56  <jnewbery> wumpus: I'm out for this Thursdays's meeting. Now that 0.16.1rc1 is out and the high priority list is a bit shorter, can we consider adding #13058? It's the next in the dynamic wallet load/unload series.
10162018-05-29T15:49:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13058 | [wallet] `createwallet` RPC - create new wallet at runtime by jnewbery · Pull Request #13058 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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10742018-05-29T17:00:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] krab closed pull request #12783: macOS: Disable AppNap (master...macos-disable-appnap) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12783
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10782018-05-29T17:04:31  <wumpus> jnewbery: sure
10792018-05-29T17:05:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] krab reopened pull request #12783: macOS: Disable AppNap (master...macos-disable-appnap) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12783
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10822018-05-29T17:06:36  <wumpus> added
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10962018-05-29T17:27:18  <promag> wumpus: we could hash(wallet.name) and use that in listwallets, -walletnotify etc..
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11002018-05-29T17:39:29  <promag> looks like mempool_persist.py is flaky
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11162018-05-29T18:02:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3a8e3f480612...f8a29ca823fb
11172018-05-29T18:02:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 59e9688 Chun Kuan Lee: Travis: Build tests on Ubuntu 18.04 with docker
11182018-05-29T18:02:47  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f8a29ca Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #13215: Travis: Build tests on Ubuntu 18.04 with docker...
11192018-05-29T18:03:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #13215: Travis: Build tests on Ubuntu 18.04 with docker (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13215
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11702018-05-29T19:11:00  <roasbeef> jonasschnelli: likely to high of params (actually a real kdf) to be feasible on hardware wallets, idea was to add an additional external version w/ lighter weight params
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11722018-05-29T19:25:08  <jonasschnelli> roasbeef: yeah. real KDF for HWW is hard. Especially memory based like scrypt
11732018-05-29T19:25:36  <jonasschnelli> I just tested PBKDF with 20k rounds on a Bitbox. Takes 30 seconds
11742018-05-29T19:26:04  <jonasschnelli> acceptable IMO for seed and recovery... but not for a device PIN KDF.
11752018-05-29T19:26:36  <sipa> outsourcable hardening would be nice
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11772018-05-29T19:27:12  <jonasschnelli> sipa: yes. but imo that concept needs to be specified and analysed further more
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11792018-05-29T19:28:39  <sipa> absolutely
11802018-05-29T19:28:51  <jonasschnelli> I think it's acceptable to wait 30s on a HWW during encrypted seed backup (seed with optional encryption) as well as during a wallet restore
11812018-05-29T19:29:41  <jonasschnelli> 30s PBKDF results in acceptable 40ms on my Intel corei7
11822018-05-29T19:30:15  <jonasschnelli> optional, the rounds could be flexible and make it into the seed serialization format
11832018-05-29T19:30:45  <jonasschnelli> wait longer == better KDF / brute force / wordlist resistance
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11922018-05-29T20:21:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 closed pull request #13289: [Qt] Re-setup args after translator setup to translate help text (master...qt-help-translations) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13289
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