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  4 2018-08-21T00:13:29  <fanquake> cfields I think once #14005 is merged we could just skip to an rc2? Might also be able to get #13968 in before that.
  5 2018-08-21T00:13:31  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14005 | [0.17] depends: fix qt determinism by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #14005 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
  6 2018-08-21T00:13:32  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13968 | [wallet] couple of walletcreatefundedpsbt fixes by instagibbs · Pull Request #13968 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 22 2018-08-21T03:45:36  <Jmabsd> Where is Bitcoin Core's serialization and deserialization code for values in various structures such as transactions, block headers, and protocol data?  This code shows the endianness used
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 24 2018-08-21T03:46:31  <luke-jr> serialization.h and the various class headers
 25 2018-08-21T03:48:11  <Jmabsd> luke-jr: great - in what cases (except for TCP/IP ip:s and ports) is small endian *not* useD?
 26 2018-08-21T03:49:02  <sipa> everything in bitcoin uses little endian
 27 2018-08-21T03:49:04  <sipa> *but*
 28 2018-08-21T03:49:27  <sipa> the output of hash functions is seen as byte arrays, which are just serialized byte-per-byte
 29 2018-08-21T03:49:59  <sipa> (SHA256 internally uses big endian, but that's black box - it's a function that takes as input a byte array and produces another byte array from bitcoin's pov)
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 32 2018-08-21T03:54:48  <Jmabsd> sipa, the SHA256 specific about Bitcoin is why you need to byte-reverse most(all?) SHA256 libraries' results within Bitcoin merkle tree merkle node calculations, right?
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 34 2018-08-21T03:55:19  <sipa> Jmabsd: no
 35 2018-08-21T03:55:20  <gmaxwell> what? no.
 36 2018-08-21T03:55:47  <sipa> Jmabsd: for human consumption the bytes are sometimes printed in reverse order
 37 2018-08-21T03:55:59  <sipa> but inside the protocol and data structures, there is never any swapping
 38 2018-08-21T03:57:29  <Jmabsd> endianness is so comical, smartphones (ARM) are big endian, derp. :))
 39 2018-08-21T03:57:54  <gmaxwell> I don't believe any smartphone is BE.
 40 2018-08-21T03:58:08  <gmaxwell> (ARM can run in BE mode or LE mode, but the smartphones all use them in LE mode)
 41 2018-08-21T03:58:21  <gmaxwell> (as does virtually all modern stuff)
 42 2018-08-21T03:58:50  <sipa> iOS and Android are LE
 43 2018-08-21T03:59:39  <Jmabsd> wait, where are Bitcoin Core's logics to actually enforce little-endian serialization   - say I run Bitcoin Core on an ARM.. is this the line that will cause the big endian (native to my computer) to little endian (serialization form) conversoin: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/serialize.h#L89 ?
 44 2018-08-21T04:00:13  <sipa> yes
 45 2018-08-21T04:00:19  <sipa> htole means "host to little endian"
 46 2018-08-21T04:00:40  <sipa> on LE systems that function is a dummy; on BE systems it does a byteswap
 47 2018-08-21T04:01:02  <Jmabsd> right so, posix stipulates these, https://linux.die.net/man/3/htole32 , right.
 48 2018-08-21T04:01:04  <Jmabsd> cool!
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 50 2018-08-21T04:04:54  <luke-jr> Jmabsd: actually, htole32 isn't POSIX
 51 2018-08-21T04:05:27  <Jmabsd> luke-jr: oh you are right, but instead, .." functions are **expected** to conform to a future version of IEEE Std 1003.1 (“POSIX.1”). The other functions are extensions that should not be used when portability is required. "
 52 2018-08-21T04:07:46  <Jmabsd> (this may be more of a #bitcoin question), what is an authoritative reference on that the DER signature's max size is 72 bytes?     i see some discussion like this https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/12554/why-the-signature-is-always-65-13232-bytes-long  but it's not super clea.r
 53 2018-08-21T04:08:17  <Jmabsd> sipa writes in this thread that "This results in 71 bytes signatures (on average)" - but what's the max
 54 2018-08-21T04:08:21  <Jmabsd> and why
 55 2018-08-21T04:09:13  <sipa> Jmabsd: the R and S value are 256-bit values, which are at most 33 bytes when encoded in DER
 56 2018-08-21T04:09:24  <sipa> then there is 6 bytes of DER headers
 57 2018-08-21T04:09:36  <sipa> and bitcoin adds a 1 byte sighash to the end
 58 2018-08-21T04:09:51  <sipa> so together 33+33+6+1 = 73 max
 59 2018-08-21T04:10:31  <sipa> however, since the introduction of the low-s rule (which is just policy, not a consensus rule), S values are at most 255 bits, which encodes to at most 32 bytes, reducing the maximum to 72
 60 2018-08-21T04:11:53  <Jmabsd> aha, so when low-s is not applied, 33B R + 33B S + 6B headers + 1B sighash = 73 bytes
 61 2018-08-21T04:12:03  <sipa> right
 62 2018-08-21T04:12:15  <Jmabsd> and with low-s, S (and not R) is 255 instead of 256 bits, meaning 33B R + 32B S + 6B headers + 1B sighash = 72B.
 63 2018-08-21T04:13:00  <Jmabsd> very well noted thanks!    if you like you can add what you just wrote to me here to that stackexchange thread, as final clarification. thanks for clarifying.
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 65 2018-08-21T04:24:27  <Jmabsd> sipa: wait, the way this max of 72/73B applies to P2PKH and P2PK sigscripts is... P2PK is only <signature>, since this is <= 75 only one byte for PUSHDATA is needed, and then follows up to **73** bytes of signature data, meaning P2PK may take **74** bytes at most?  and, P2PKH is <signature> <pubkey>, pubkey is normally 33B or for legacy uncompressed 65B, both push-datas are single-byte due to <=75B, and the signature may be **73B**
 66 2018-08-21T04:24:27  <Jmabsd> so 1 + 73 + 1 + 33/65 = 108 or 140B sigscript max for P2PKH?
 67 2018-08-21T04:25:18  <Jmabsd> libbitcoin though says "static BC_CONSTEXPR size_t max_der_signature_size = 72;", hm
 68 2018-08-21T04:25:46  <Jmabsd> ..which is excluding sighash byte, meaning 73B max here too?
 69 2018-08-21T04:25:57  <sipa> low s is not a consensus rule
 70 2018-08-21T04:28:37  <Jmabsd> sipa: are the calculations I made about max size sigscript for P2PKH and P2PK (108/140B and 74B) correct?
 71 2018-08-21T04:29:38  <sipa> i believe they're right
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 74 2018-08-21T04:39:56  <arubi> just like low is isn't consensus rule, neither is a clean scriptsig for p2pk\p2pkh :)
 75 2018-08-21T04:42:16  <arubi> er, low *s*
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 83 2018-08-21T05:56:05  <Jmabsd> arubi: wait, what do you mean?
 84 2018-08-21T06:14:58  <arubi> Jmabsd, I mean yes, you can calculate the maximum size of a signature and a pubkey, and also yes, normally it's only the signature in scriptsig for p2pk and pubkey+signature for p2pkh, but there is no rule that says that other things can't added in a p2pk or p2pkh spend scriptsig
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 86 2018-08-21T06:16:46  <luke-jr> wumpus: doc/man/Makefile -AWK = gawk+AWK = mawk
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 88 2018-08-21T06:17:11  <arubi> so saying that 108\140 bytes is the maximum size of such a scriptsig is not /wrong/, but it's not consensus accurate.  the only reason I brought it up is because it's the same thing with low s
 89 2018-08-21T06:18:17  <wumpus> cfields: agree, no need to sign rc1
 90 2018-08-21T06:18:40  <wumpus> cfields: we can skip over it and do rc2, there's another fix that needs to be merged to IIRC
 91 2018-08-21T06:18:44  <luke-jr> so I guess I need to uninstall gawk somehow
 92 2018-08-21T06:18:56  <wumpus> luke-jr: I'm not sure I understand
 93 2018-08-21T06:19:41  <wumpus> so the difference between awk and gawk causes non-determinism?
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 95 2018-08-21T06:20:51  <luke-jr> wumpus: gawk and mawk, but yes
 96 2018-08-21T06:21:10  <luke-jr> if gawk is found, configure prefers it, and it ends up in doc/man/Makefile
 97 2018-08-21T06:21:38  <luke-jr> so I guess the only way to fix it is to either guarantee all base VMs have no gawk, or to always install gawk so they do
 98 2018-08-21T06:22:07  <wumpus> what bothers me is that the different tool causes a different output
 99 2018-08-21T06:22:21  <wumpus> the build system is supposed to choose between *equivalent* tools
100 2018-08-21T06:22:46  <wumpus> if it makes a difference which one is chosen I think it should reject either one, or we should change the usage so that the output matches
101 2018-08-21T06:22:49  <luke-jr> wumpus: I'm sure the tools produce equivalent output
102 2018-08-21T06:22:59  <luke-jr> the difference is the command line in the Makefile
103 2018-08-21T06:23:00  <wumpus> then why is this a non-determinism issue?
104 2018-08-21T06:23:10  <wumpus> how does that affect the executable?
105 2018-08-21T06:23:11  <luke-jr> I'm not sure why the Makefile is included in the output
106 2018-08-21T06:23:27  <wumpus> oh, me neither, are you sure that file needs to be deterministic at all?
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108 2018-08-21T06:23:51  <wumpus> if it includes a makefile it seems it's an intermediate product for something
109 2018-08-21T06:23:55  <luke-jr> I guess that's the real bug
110 2018-08-21T06:23:59  <wumpus> yes
111 2018-08-21T06:24:08  <luke-jr> the nsis script seems to just include doc/*
112 2018-08-21T06:24:59  <wumpus> I think 'make install' is supposed to install the man pages, but not a makefile?!?
113 2018-08-21T06:25:40  <luke-jr> it uses @abs_top_srcdir@/doc\*.*
114 2018-08-21T06:25:52  <luke-jr> so make install isn't involved
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116 2018-08-21T06:27:19  <wumpus> right--anyhow, let's try to fix this for rc2 as well
117 2018-08-21T06:27:23  <wumpus> thanks for narrowing this down
118 2018-08-21T06:28:03  <luke-jr> I suppose the dumbest way would be to delete Makefile* there first, or even all of the man directory (Windows can't view them anyeway?)
119 2018-08-21T06:28:18  <luke-jr> I'm not sure what a *good* solution would look like
120 2018-08-21T06:28:57  <luke-jr> fwiw, removing gawk implies: The following packages will be REMOVED:  byobu gawk ubuntu-server
121 2018-08-21T06:29:20  <luke-jr> so apparently y'all have base VMs without ubuntu-server O.o
122 2018-08-21T06:30:51  <Jmabsd> what may arubi have meant by "just like low is isn't consensus rule, neither is a clean scriptsig for p2pk\p2pkh :)"?
123 2018-08-21T06:35:34  <wumpus> luke-jr: I think you'd want to delete everything that isn't a man page, isn't there a VARIABLE that has the man page names?
124 2018-08-21T06:35:49  <wumpus> luke-jr: and,say, copy those instead of everything
125 2018-08-21T06:36:47  <Jmabsd> (ah he responded on #bitcoin, great.)
126 2018-08-21T06:38:23  <luke-jr> wumpus: uh? Windows users want everything except the manpages I would think
127 2018-08-21T06:40:59  <wumpus> src/doc only has manpages
128 2018-08-21T06:41:18  <wumpus> so if you don't want the manpages then yes you can skip the entire directory
129 2018-08-21T06:42:08  <luke-jr> it's just doc/ not src/doc/
130 2018-08-21T06:42:24  <luke-jr> src/doc/ doesn't exist <.<
131 2018-08-21T06:42:32  <luke-jr> doc/ has the various README files etc
132 2018-08-21T06:44:02  <wumpus> ok
133 2018-08-21T06:44:31  <wumpus> yes, this is a drawback of not explicitly listing files but using wildcards, cfields has been discouraging those for about forever :)
134 2018-08-21T06:45:49  <luke-jr> don't see a nice way to delete stuff :x
135 2018-08-21T06:46:40  <luke-jr> maybe /x Makefile* for now
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137 2018-08-21T06:46:51  <luke-jr> http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Reference/File
138 2018-08-21T06:47:18  <luke-jr> I guess /x man might work too
139 2018-08-21T06:47:26  <luke-jr> if we definitely don't want the manpages install
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142 2018-08-21T06:52:14  <wumpus> I'd prefer to exclude copying the makefile instead of deleting it
143 2018-08-21T06:52:28  <wumpus> yes
144 2018-08-21T06:52:48  <wumpus> excluding it from the archive would work too I suppose
145 2018-08-21T06:53:21  <luke-jr> wumpus: want to make a branch we both build and compare? ;)
146 2018-08-21T06:55:46  <luke-jr> I pushed fix_nsis_makefile to my github
147 2018-08-21T06:55:52  <luke-jr> pushing*
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157 2018-08-21T07:51:27  <wumpus> sure, I can build that
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168 2018-08-21T08:18:29  <wumpus> promag: whoops, sorry about making #13529 need rebase again, we really need to get that in--asap
169 2018-08-21T08:18:32  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13529 | Use new Qt5 connect syntax by promag · Pull Request #13529 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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175 2018-08-21T08:47:26  <promag> wumpus: rebased #13529
176 2018-08-21T08:47:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13529 | Use new Qt5 connect syntax by promag · Pull Request #13529 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
177 2018-08-21T08:53:21  <promag> wumpus: I also think #13501 should go as soon as possible
178 2018-08-21T08:53:22  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13501 | Correctly terminate HTTP server by promag · Pull Request #13501 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
179 2018-08-21T09:05:00  <stevenroose> What is the guideline for using the UniValue [] operator or find_value?
180 2018-08-21T09:07:20  <wumpus> stevenroose: [] is for indexing arrays, find_value for finding a value associated to a key in an object, IIRC
181 2018-08-21T09:07:56  <wumpus> I don't think it's posbbile to use them interchangably
182 2018-08-21T09:18:28  <stevenroose> wumpus: I found these lines almost underneath each other
183 2018-08-21T09:18:30  <stevenroose> UniValue error = find_value(reply, "error");
184 2018-08-21T09:18:40  <stevenroose> UniValue result = reply["result"];
185 2018-08-21T09:18:49  <stevenroose> Reply object is the same, it's an RPC response.
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187 2018-08-21T09:19:33  <stevenroose> Looking at the implementation of both, they both seem to do the same in a different way :/
188 2018-08-21T09:20:31  <stevenroose> wumpus: https://gist.github.com/stevenroose/b5a9a79e84bb949b08112d560ccec9e0
189 2018-08-21T09:22:25  <stevenroose> Something else: the RPC error code RPC_IN_WARMUP, once one call does not respond with that code, can one assume all other calls to also not give it? I.e. do different RPC calls have different warmup times?
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191 2018-08-21T09:23:56  <stevenroose> Hmm, looking at the few times that variable is used, it seems to be a global one-time thing
192 2018-08-21T09:27:48  <wumpus> I'd personally prefer find_value to override operator magic, but that's just my opinion, if they do effectively the same then I wouldn't know
193 2018-08-21T09:28:37  <wumpus> stevenroose: yes, warmup is a global process
194 2018-08-21T09:30:04  <wumpus> it was introduced to give feedback about the initialization process in bitcoind to RPC clients, a long time ago the RPC server was spun up as last thing after initialization but this meant that the process launching bitcoind had no idea of the status
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197 2018-08-21T09:54:40  <wumpus> so yes, it is valid to poll with a NOP RPC call such as 'echo' until it is out of warmup status, and assume everything after that will work
198 2018-08-21T10:23:34  <wumpus> luke-jr: build output for your branch https://0bin.net/paste/JTH+pG9fCKr2zDdL#eiSYVxfEOv7lgguDxAI4AcgqOjNG4REi5m4NqlbgWQz
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208 2018-08-21T12:13:53  <someone235> someone knows what this script tries to test? ["1", "0x01 0x01 EQUAL", "P2SH,STRICTENC", "OK", "The following is useful for checking implementations of BN_bn2mpi"],
209 2018-08-21T12:13:58  <someone235> from here https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/data/script_tests.json#L354
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214 2018-08-21T13:09:02  <wumpus> well at least not BN_nb2mpi, that's an openSSL function and hasn't been used from consensus code for ages
215 2018-08-21T13:09:44  <wumpus> still, apparently the goal is to check number conversion
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217 2018-08-21T13:23:36  <someone235> wumpus, what do you mean?
218 2018-08-21T13:24:13  <someone235> wumpus, you mean it checks if the string parser works correctly?
219 2018-08-21T13:26:55  <wumpus> no, I don't actually know, BN_bn2mpi/BN_mpi2bn was used for compact number representation (as in the PoW target), it's not used anywhere in the scripting language
220 2018-08-21T13:27:05  <wumpus> and as far as I know, never was
221 2018-08-21T13:27:48  <wumpus> but you can be certain it's not about a "string parser", nothing in bitcoin script uses strings
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223 2018-08-21T13:45:00  <someone235> wumpus, the parser of script_tests.json uses strings
224 2018-08-21T13:45:27  <someone235> wumpus, it knows to convert "1" -> OP_1 etc
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229 2018-08-21T14:16:36  <wumpus> ohh like that, no, there's separate unit tests for that, the script tests are for testing the script system
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248 2018-08-21T17:33:32  <gmaxwell> kallewoof: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/0.17.0-Release-notes#partial-spend-avoidance  does this sound okay?
249 2018-08-21T17:33:53  <gmaxwell> The earlier text made it sound like there was no change at all if the argument wasn't set.
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252 2018-08-21T17:45:13  <kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/london-bitcoin-devs/jnewbery-bitcoin-core-v0.17/
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254 2018-08-21T18:08:03  <luke-jr> wumpus: that's Linux builds.. this is a Windows issue :p
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277 2018-08-21T19:28:25  <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell: I don't feel comfortable with replacing the shake256/fips202 part with sha256 in the nist submitted newhope code (https://github.com/newhopecrypto/newhope/tree/master/ref)
278 2018-08-21T19:29:33  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: OKAY, don't!
279 2018-08-21T19:29:45  <gmaxwell> one of the hash uses in newhope is protocol normative.
280 2018-08-21T19:30:05  <gmaxwell> (it sends a random seed, and the other side needs to generate the same random stream from it)
281 2018-08-21T19:31:48  <jonasschnelli> Yeah. I think we should keep the fips202/shake256 part
282 2018-08-21T19:33:11  <jonasschnelli> I guess we better use the implementation as it is and feed the NEWHOPE_KEY into out HKDF function together with the ECDH secret.
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284 2018-08-21T19:33:20  <jonasschnelli> HKDF( NEWHOPE_KEY || ECDH_KEY)
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287 2018-08-21T19:34:43  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: IIRC we need to at a minimum change the implementation to not read /dev/urandom itself.
288 2018-08-21T19:35:01  <gmaxwell> though we don't have to do that now, just for testing/review.
289 2018-08-21T19:35:26  <jonasschnelli> Yes. RIght.
290 2018-08-21T19:35:40  <jonasschnelli> The encryption / protocol V2 implementation is ready (only secp256k1 ecdh), added tests and did exhausting field testing... its ~2014 lines of code already,...
291 2018-08-21T19:35:55  <jonasschnelli> I'm not sure if we should load the newhope on top or add it later but within the same release
292 2018-08-21T19:37:06  <jonasschnelli> Strategy A would be to publish/alter the BIP with NewHope and implement it within two steps... but I know it's also meh-ish
293 2018-08-21T19:38:11  <jonasschnelli> Strategy B would open a +~2600 line pull request with 4 new crypto modules (ECDH, ChaCha, Poly1305, NewHope)
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295 2018-08-21T19:38:40  <gmaxwell> I _expect_ that if no extra deployment logic is needed, adding new hope is litterally a few additional lines, plus dropping in the newhope reference code.  So then at least we could compare there.
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307 2018-08-21T19:39:39  <jonasschnelli> Yes. The handshake part is already implemented with maximum flexibility...
308 2018-08-21T19:39:50  <jonasschnelli> And the impact on the non-newhope module is minimal
309 2018-08-21T19:41:03  <gmaxwell> in any case, my thinking was just that deploying newhope in the inital is simpler than any after the fact addition, but we can see what other people think when the look at the impementation.
310 2018-08-21T19:43:23  <jonasschnelli> Yes. Agree.
311 2018-08-21T19:44:23  <gmaxwell> implementation*
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355 2018-08-21T21:02:35  <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14018
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358 2018-08-21T21:21:20  <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: if you send me the patch w/ newhope, I can spin it up here and we can addnode each other interop test with PPC too. :)
359 2018-08-21T21:22:48  <gmaxwell> I wonder how much bandwidth overhead there would be in making dandelion largely traffic analysis immune
360 2018-08-21T21:27:45  <gmaxwell> A way to do that would be to intoduce a new message type "txtrickle" that has a fixed payload size such as 64 bytes. And we'd send these messages to four outbound peers, two of which are our dandelion outedges, at some constant rate R.   If we have stem tx to send, they queue up and ride in these messages. Otherwise, the messages are just filled with zeros.
361 2018-08-21T21:28:22  <gmaxwell> Rate R starts at some initial value and adjusts every 24 hours or something to keep tranmission delay low.
362 2018-08-21T21:28:42  <gmaxwell> Some information would get leaked by R changing, but not a ton.
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364 2018-08-21T21:33:25  <gmaxwell> R should end up being some factor of txn_rate / listeners * dandelion_path length... which would be a really low number.
365 2018-08-21T21:34:34  <gmaxwell> So I think that the actual bandwidth overhead might be really low.
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370 2018-08-21T21:46:44  <gmaxwell> So, for example... at 4m weight max, assuming constant hashrate, maximum bandwidth of the blockchain is 53kbit/sec. with 10,000 listeners and a stem length of 10, we'd expect each listner to see at most ~53 bits/sec of stem forwarding.
371 2018-08-21T21:49:35  <gmaxwell> So the actual rate we need would be really decided by how much latency we were willing to tolerate adding.
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