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 51 2018-09-20T05:29:57  <kanzure> will be missing upcoming thursday meeting due to travel
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 65 2018-09-20T06:56:29  <wumpus> rc4 binaries up https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.17.0/test.rc4/
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106 2018-09-20T10:47:08  <Arvidt> Is it on purpose, that the SHA256SUMs file in https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.17.0/test.rc4/ is now named SHA256SUMS instead of SHA256SUMS.asc like it used to be named in the past? Because I have a download script and that looks for the file SHA256SUMS.asc to verfiy the download and the script does fail now because of missing signature file.
107 2018-09-20T10:47:23  <wumpus> without libc you cannot expect any binaries for linux to work, I doubt something like flatpak or appimage would help
108 2018-09-20T10:47:47  <wumpus> Arvidt: uhm, no, that's not on purpose, looks like I didn't upload the signed asc
109 2018-09-20T10:47:58  <wumpus> Arvidt: thanks for the reminder
110 2018-09-20T10:52:12  <Arvidt> wumpus: OK maybe there is missing a release algorithm documentation to be able to cleanly reproduce/make a release, to prevent something is forgotten/mistaken like in this case?
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112 2018-09-20T10:54:45  <wumpus> Arvidt: should be fixed now
113 2018-09-20T10:58:57  <Arvidt> In the file there are signatures for bitcoin-0.10.4rc1 !
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115 2018-09-20T11:04:53  <wumpus> right. now it has the correct ones.
116 2018-09-20T11:10:45  <provoostenator> cfields: will sign as soon as I remember what the "please run gbuild --upgrade" error was about again...
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118 2018-09-20T11:18:58  <Arvidt> wumpus: Issue is fixed now, download could be verified as usual.
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124 2018-09-20T11:50:15  <fanquake> If anyone is interested, I've posted a simple guide to using gitian-builder directly on macOS: https://github.com/fanquake/core-review/tree/master/gitian-building
125 2018-09-20T11:50:24  <fanquake> (follow up from a few days ago)
126 2018-09-20T11:50:55  <fanquake> I've been using this method for all the recent builds.
127 2018-09-20T11:52:09  <provoostenator> Nice, I'll try that after the Mojave update...
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130 2018-09-20T11:54:34  <yep555> will there be an rc5?
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132 2018-09-20T12:00:29  <fanquake> yep555 Should be, as there are still a few issues outstanding for 0.17.0 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/33
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161 2018-09-20T14:19:24  <ott0disk> Hello is there a way to use the 'generate' RPC deterministically (during a functional test of course)?
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164 2018-09-20T14:27:18  <michagogo> provoostenator: I just always use —upgrade
165 2018-09-20T14:27:46  <michagogo> And I have a script I run every so often to upgrade the base image
166 2018-09-20T14:28:17  <provoostenator> I remember that not working a while ago, but will try again next time. This time I just nuked the images and ran it again.
167 2018-09-20T14:28:34  <provoostenator> It would be nice if it just did that automatically.
168 2018-09-20T14:28:37  <michagogo> Heh, I guess that works too…
169 2018-09-20T14:29:40  <michagogo> Yeah, I guess maybe they think you might want to have a consistent environment and not upgrade any of the base packages unless you say so
170 2018-09-20T14:30:03  <michagogo> Or maybe they assume you don’t want to spend the time to upgrade each time
171 2018-09-20T14:30:30  <michagogo> Or something
172 2018-09-20T14:30:44  <michagogo> 🤷
173 2018-09-20T14:31:38  <michagogo> At this point I have the whole thing automated
174 2018-09-20T14:34:34  <michagogo> I just kick off one script with the version and the targets (usually all) and it does it all, including creating the PR
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176 2018-09-20T14:35:12  <provoostenator> 0.14.3 release notes (etc) ready for review in #14279
177 2018-09-20T14:35:14  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14279 | 0.14.3 release notes, manpage and version bump by Sjors · Pull Request #14279 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
178 2018-09-20T14:42:43  <promag> jnewbery: do you think BitcoinTestFramework should be used/extended to support bitcoin-wallet-tool tests?
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195 2018-09-20T15:52:15  <jnewbery> promag: I'd say it's probably better to keep them separate if possible. Take a look at the bitcoin-tx tests in test/util. Tests for bitcoin-wallet-tool should probably go in there.
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205 2018-09-20T16:39:02  <wumpus> I agree
206 2018-09-20T16:39:30  <wumpus> although, in this case you might need bitcoind to create/populate the wallet in the first place
207 2018-09-20T16:40:13  <wumpus> so it integrates somewhat more closely with the existing tests that bitcoin-tx which is an independend utility
208 2018-09-20T16:40:49  <wumpus> and as soon as you need bitcoind and RPC, integrating it into the test framework makes much more sense
209 2018-09-20T16:40:57  <wumpus> otherwise you'll end up duplicating functionality
210 2018-09-20T16:41:16  <wumpus> promag isn't even here is he
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216 2018-09-20T16:46:14  <promag> wumpus: jnewbery: sorry, catching up
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218 2018-09-20T16:47:03  <promag> to test against running nodes I'm extending BitcoinTestFramework
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222 2018-09-20T17:12:03  <promag> bbl
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224 2018-09-20T17:16:15  <wumpus>  * [new tag]                                                                           v0.14.3 -> v0.14.3
225 2018-09-20T17:16:33  <midnightmagic> \o/
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231 2018-09-20T17:48:32  <jnewbery> wumpus: promag: yes, that makes sense. If you need a bitcoind to create the wallet, then it makes sense to incorporate the tests into the functional test framework
232 2018-09-20T17:49:36  <jnewbery> (although I am a little concerned about the tendency for the functional test framework to keep on expanding forever)
233 2018-09-20T17:55:26  <wumpus> I'm more concerned with adding more utilities to bitcoin core than the test framework expanding to test them
234 2018-09-20T17:55:44  <wumpus> at least the tests should skip if built without the utility, I suppose
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236 2018-09-20T18:10:54  <MarcoFalke> We can always try to refactor it later if it becomes an issue. Refactoring solves all issues I heard.
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241 2018-09-20T18:32:19  <wumpus> heh
242 2018-09-20T18:32:27  *** rex4539 has quit IRC
243 2018-09-20T18:33:44  <wumpus> that explains the large amount of refactoring...
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248 2018-09-20T18:57:40  <MarcoFalke> meeting in 3?
249 2018-09-20T18:58:44  <luke-jr> no, 2
250 2018-09-20T18:59:03  <sipa> no, 1
251 2018-09-20T18:59:31  <luke-jr> I see you were just waiting for the minute to change for posting that!
252 2018-09-20T18:59:48  <sipa> actually, no, i just switched to this terminal when the clock was already ":59"
253 2018-09-20T18:59:49  <luke-jr> :p
254 2018-09-20T19:00:28  <MarcoFalke> 0
255 2018-09-20T19:00:35  * luke-jr pokes wumpus
256 2018-09-20T19:00:36  <sdaftuar> hi
257 2018-09-20T19:00:39  <jonasschnelli> hi
258 2018-09-20T19:00:40  <luke-jr> don't make us off-by-one!
259 2018-09-20T19:00:49  <MarcoFalke> off-by-negative-one
260 2018-09-20T19:00:57  <luke-jr> :x
261 2018-09-20T19:01:04  <MarcoFalke> topic proposals:
262 2018-09-20T19:01:06  <MarcoFalke> short topic: Delete 0.10.* executables from bitcoincore.org
263 2018-09-20T19:01:12  <MarcoFalke> short topic: Add GitHub pull request template
264 2018-09-20T19:01:40  <sipa> wumpus: ^
265 2018-09-20T19:01:43  <MarcoFalke> But I think first topic is 0.17.0?
266 2018-09-20T19:01:58  <achow101> hi
267 2018-09-20T19:02:24  <wumpus> #startmeeting
268 2018-09-20T19:02:24  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 20 19:02:24 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
269 2018-09-20T19:02:24  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
270 2018-09-20T19:02:24  <MarcoFalke> I think anyone can be the host that knows the commands for the meeting bot?
271 2018-09-20T19:02:29  <MarcoFalke> ah
272 2018-09-20T19:02:46  <wumpus> #topic 0.17.0
273 2018-09-20T19:02:50  <meshcollider> Hi
274 2018-09-20T19:03:29  <MarcoFalke> I think two of the issues in the milestone are just release-notes related
275 2018-09-20T19:03:39  <wumpus> anything specific you want to discuss about it?
276 2018-09-20T19:03:57  <wumpus> correct, the only real still-open issue is achow101 's PR
277 2018-09-20T19:04:01  <gmaxwell> I think we should probably just get 0.17 out soon, and even slip the PSBT fix to 0.17.1 to be done soon after.
278 2018-09-20T19:04:09  <wumpus> yes,agree
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280 2018-09-20T19:04:44  <gmaxwell> it's unfortunately that PSBT is hobbled in 0.17, but considering bugfix upgrades we'll be better off not delaying due to a new feature that is kinda expiremental in any case... and probably has other bugs.
281 2018-09-20T19:04:49  <promag> hi
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283 2018-09-20T19:05:49  <sipa> i'm not sure it's a very common workflow that triggers (importing a p2sh-segwit address without known pubkey, and then trying to sign on an offline system)
284 2018-09-20T19:05:59  <sipa> it just happened to be the first thing i tried
285 2018-09-20T19:06:14  <gmaxwell> I think it's like _the_ obvious workflow... if you happen to be using embedded segwit. :P
286 2018-09-20T19:06:36  <wumpus> so, all in all it depends on why people want to upgrade to 0.17.0
287 2018-09-20T19:06:40  <gmaxwell> Can we provide workaround instructions that have people import the redeemscript?
288 2018-09-20T19:06:40  <luke-jr> we just released 0.16.3; is there a reason to rush 0.17 now?
289 2018-09-20T19:06:49  <wumpus> if a properly working PSBT is very important, we should delay the release for it
290 2018-09-20T19:06:52  <luke-jr> people who really want it can always use a rc
291 2018-09-20T19:06:55  <sipa> gmaxwell: or another roundtrip; i'll write up a workaround
292 2018-09-20T19:07:00  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: It's 0.1 higher.
293 2018-09-20T19:07:09  <wumpus> if PSBT is seen as an curious experimental feature, then not so much
294 2018-09-20T19:07:16  <gmaxwell> Since PSBT is new I don't think it's important if it works at all.
295 2018-09-20T19:07:18  <wumpus> I don't have a clear perspective on that
296 2018-09-20T19:07:19  <sipa> gmaxwell: it's 0.7 higher :)
297 2018-09-20T19:07:24  <sdaftuar> gmaxwell: i agree with that
298 2018-09-20T19:08:08  <morcos> i also would rather document the shortcomings of PSBT and proceed with the release.
299 2018-09-20T19:08:09  <achow101> I think it is fine to release as is and do the fix for .1 later
300 2018-09-20T19:08:15  <wumpus> don't really want complaints like 'so you released 0.17.0 but it's useless as the PSBT we've been waiting for is useless'
301 2018-09-20T19:08:17  <gmaxwell> I think cosmically PSBT is important, but it's fine if we get it after another month delay or what not.. and it's not broken completely, there is a workaround, and that issue only applies to p2sh-segwit.
302 2018-09-20T19:08:36  <achow101> this is fairly edge case imo
303 2018-09-20T19:08:44  <MarcoFalke> so action: Merge release notes?
304 2018-09-20T19:08:54  *** clarkmoody has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
305 2018-09-20T19:09:06  <wumpus> but that's not the gut feeling I have about it, and I'm okay with tagging 0.17.0 final next week when no new problems come up
306 2018-09-20T19:09:22  <gmaxwell> It's also not the only shortcoming of PSBT as is... e.g. the txou-scan + spend workflow is kind of a mess for non-segwit outputs as I was lamenting in here a few weeks ago. (not as easily fixed)
307 2018-09-20T19:09:36  <promag> make it experimental like scantxoutset?
308 2018-09-20T19:09:45  <wumpus> right, PSBT is bound to have more problems that will come up when other users start using it
309 2018-09-20T19:09:52  <gmaxwell> I don't think it needs to be marked more expiremental.
310 2018-09-20T19:09:54  <wumpus> there will likely need to be a 0.17.1 for other reasons
311 2018-09-20T19:10:01  <sipa> i don't think we should be waving 'experimental' as a label as a way to avoid responsibility in creating decent interfaces
312 2018-09-20T19:10:11  <wumpus> we could disable it completely.
313 2018-09-20T19:10:13  <sipa> it's there to indicate that changes are possible in the future
314 2018-09-20T19:10:13  <gmaxwell> scantxoutset is marked expiremental in particular because the interface isn't stable.
315 2018-09-20T19:10:32  <wumpus> just disable the methods, make PSBT entirely miss 0.17.0
316 2018-09-20T19:10:35  <promag> rpc cycle experimental -> stable -> deprecated :P
317 2018-09-20T19:10:56  <sipa> i think it's fine to release 0.17.0 as-is now
318 2018-09-20T19:11:00  <wumpus> but only if you think releasing as-is is "avoiding responsibility"
319 2018-09-20T19:11:08  <gmaxwell> wumpus: I don't see how doing that, in this case, would make anyone better off. I would agree if it was like "PSBT could surprise crash, or eat your coins" or whatnot.
320 2018-09-20T19:11:26  <wumpus> gmaxwell: it was because of sipa's working
321 2018-09-20T19:11:28  <wumpus> wording*
322 2018-09-20T19:11:32  <luke-jr> [19:10:32] <wumpus> just disable the methods, make PSBT entirely miss 0.17.0 <-- IMO better to just delay 0.17 a bit
323 2018-09-20T19:11:37  <gmaxwell> But in this case, it's just "this very specific sequence of actions in this specific use case just doesn't work"
324 2018-09-20T19:11:46  <sipa> wumpus: no, i'm just a bit annoyed with the "we could always mark things experimental!" response to things that don't work - not specific to this issue
325 2018-09-20T19:11:47  <achow101> I think 0.17 is fine to release as is
326 2018-09-20T19:11:50  <sipa> this is minor enough
327 2018-09-20T19:12:03  <wumpus> sipa: well it's quite common for software to have 'known issues' with releases
328 2018-09-20T19:12:07  <morcos> we have a precedent of release notes with a Known Bugs section
329 2018-09-20T19:12:11  <promag> luke-jr: remove features in RC?
330 2018-09-20T19:12:13  <sipa> wumpus: right, that's far more honest :)
331 2018-09-20T19:12:13  <morcos> damn i type too slow
332 2018-09-20T19:12:19  <gmaxwell> yea, for this it's fine.
333 2018-09-20T19:12:19  <wumpus> at some point ,a release needs to be cut, in spite of everything
334 2018-09-20T19:12:33  *** earlz has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
335 2018-09-20T19:12:41  <luke-jr> promag: not necessarily in general, but in this specific case
336 2018-09-20T19:12:55  <gmaxwell> Sometimes a known issue is severe enough you need to disable the functionality, but not here. And expiremental isn't the right concept: it's not that PSBT is going to change its interface in an incompatible way, it just has some bugs.
337 2018-09-20T19:12:57  <luke-jr> promag: no reason to rush 0.17, and fixing it shouldn't delay long
338 2018-09-20T19:13:01  <wumpus> but I agree removing features should be left for when something is dangerously broken
339 2018-09-20T19:13:35  <wumpus> but the fact that this discussion keeps coming back indicates to me that most people just want 0.17.0 out, for other reasons than PSBT
340 2018-09-20T19:13:38  <promag> we want people to try it+, but in a responsible way, so experimental sounds fine to me
341 2018-09-20T19:13:47  <gmaxwell> For use we're using expiremental to get functionality out when the remaining issue is some debate (or incompleteness) in the interface, and where we figure people are better off having it, even if the interface isn't stable yet.
342 2018-09-20T19:14:20  <sipa> psbt is not experimental; its workflows or interfaces aren't changing, nor is there a security issue
343 2018-09-20T19:14:22  <gmaxwell> because we found that we were delaying good features because "interfaces-are-forever".
344 2018-09-20T19:14:36  <wumpus> right
345 2018-09-20T19:14:40  <sipa> there's just a bug that prevents it from working in an edge case that can be worked around, which will be fixed soon
346 2018-09-20T19:15:06  <gmaxwell> and 0.17 has a lot of fantastic improvements that people should get their hands on.
347 2018-09-20T19:15:08  <earlz> What's the best way to privately report a security problem in bitcoin core?
348 2018-09-20T19:15:10  <promag> sipa: experimental can also mean incomplete, or not entirely tested or finished?
349 2018-09-20T19:15:28  <sipa> earlz: security@bitcoincore.org
350 2018-09-20T19:15:29  <wumpus> earlz: gpg-signed mail to maintainers
351 2018-09-20T19:15:40  <luke-jr> gpg encrypted, not signed.
352 2018-09-20T19:15:44  <sipa> i care more about gpg-encrypted than signed :)
353 2018-09-20T19:15:46  <earlz> Thanks
354 2018-09-20T19:15:48  <wumpus> eh yes, sorry , encrypted
355 2018-09-20T19:16:05  <gmaxwell> earlz: https://bitcoincore.org/en/contact/  has the info.
356 2018-09-20T19:16:43  * luke-jr wonders if earlz's question should be considered in the context of the meeting topic
357 2018-09-20T19:17:04  <gmaxwell> please don't discuss security issues on irc.
358 2018-09-20T19:17:04  <wumpus> #topic Delete 0.10.* executables from bitcoincore.org
359 2018-09-20T19:17:13  <MarcoFalke> Similar to how the branches were deleted from the GitHub git mirror (https://bitcoincore.org/en/meetings/2018/05/03/#delete-08-09-and-010-git-branches), we should delete executables that are long EOL.
360 2018-09-20T19:17:17  <luke-jr> rather move than delete
361 2018-09-20T19:17:18  <MarcoFalke> bitcoincore.org is mostly concerned about distributing working, tested and non-vulnerable software versions of Bitcoin Core. The site should not serve as an archive of binary blobs. Note that releases before 0.10.0 are already not offered as download on https://bitcoincore.org/bin/.
362 2018-09-20T19:17:40  <wumpus> yes, would rather move to an "old_dont_use" directory
363 2018-09-20T19:17:40  <gmaxwell> wumpus: it's really useful to have old executable archived somewhere. It's often hard to _build_ old versions because of @#$@ dependency changes.
364 2018-09-20T19:17:57  <wumpus> gmaxwell: I agree
365 2018-09-20T19:18:03  <wumpus> deleting isn't necssary, I think
366 2018-09-20T19:18:11  <jonasschnelli> Agree
367 2018-09-20T19:18:32  <MarcoFalke> Then, we should also put up the 0.8 and earlier versions?
368 2018-09-20T19:18:46  <wumpus> we do!
369 2018-09-20T19:18:52  <MarcoFalke> Oh I din't know
370 2018-09-20T19:19:01  <luke-jr> https://bitcoincore.org/bin/insecure/ has back to 0.8.6
371 2018-09-20T19:19:19  <luke-jr> …and copies of 0.10 it seems
372 2018-09-20T19:19:26  <gmaxwell> probably anything that doesn't enforce all current consensus rules should be in a old_dont_use directory.
373 2018-09-20T19:19:47  <sipa> so 0.13.1 ?
374 2018-09-20T19:19:53  <wumpus> when bitcoincore.org started hosting executables I think I copied everything from bitcoin.org
375 2018-09-20T19:20:28  <gmaxwell> sipa: has it been that long, ... I guess so.
376 2018-09-20T19:20:41  <wumpus> ok with me
377 2018-09-20T19:20:41  <sipa> nearly 2 years.
378 2018-09-20T19:21:16  <MarcoFalke> Hmm https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.10.4/ seems empty
379 2018-09-20T19:21:35  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, that version was never released
380 2018-09-20T19:21:39  <MarcoFalke> But yeah, moving is fine if developers still use the binaries
381 2018-09-20T19:21:52  <MarcoFalke> Oh I remember we had this chat
382 2018-09-20T19:21:58  <luke-jr> FWIW, I do have various old versions archived on https://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoind/
383 2018-09-20T19:22:19  <wumpus> there was an rc for 0.10.4 at some point AFAIK that's why the directory exists
384 2018-09-20T19:22:28  <MarcoFalke> Ah
385 2018-09-20T19:22:32  <gmaxwell> in any case action is to move but don't delete old versions? and at least anything that isn't current with the current consensus rules?
386 2018-09-20T19:22:40  <sdaftuar> 0.13 is past end-of-life, so i think it should be considered "old_dont_use" as well
387 2018-09-20T19:22:55  <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes I think so
388 2018-09-20T19:23:28  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: rcs for old releases used to be deleted because of disk space constraints on bitcoin.org, don't know if bitcoincore.org has the same problem
389 2018-09-20T19:24:13  <gmaxwell> sdaftuar: also old don't use due to not having the crash fix.
390 2018-09-20T19:25:13  <wumpus> isn't 0.14 the first release with the crash bug?
391 2018-09-20T19:25:29  <sdaftuar> wumpus: yes
392 2018-09-20T19:25:59  <wumpus> #topic Add GitHub pull request template (MarcoFalke)
393 2018-09-20T19:26:12  <MarcoFalke> There are sometimes pull requests that do simple stylistic refactoring without obvious advantages to either users or developers. The GitHub pull request template would remind contributors that they need to provide clear rationale for these refactoring changes
394 2018-09-20T19:26:26  <wumpus> yes please
395 2018-09-20T19:26:32  <jnewbery> ACK
396 2018-09-20T19:26:34  <sdaftuar> +1
397 2018-09-20T19:26:37  <jamesob> +1. thoughts on test coverage requirements?
398 2018-09-20T19:26:44  <cfields> and a benchmark if it's intended to be an optimization
399 2018-09-20T19:26:47  <MarcoFalke> I'd just wanted to ask people to look at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14217
400 2018-09-20T19:26:50  <MarcoFalke> and leave feedback
401 2018-09-20T19:27:01  <sdaftuar> jamesob: i think it's always good to encourage PR openers and reviewers to ensure there's test coverage!
402 2018-09-20T19:27:06  <gmaxwell> 12:26:44 < cfields> and a benchmark if it's intended to be an optimization
403 2018-09-20T19:27:08  <MarcoFalke> jamesob: In the future, a bot could automatically close refactoring pull requests without rationale or missing test coverage.
404 2018-09-20T19:27:11  <wumpus> cfields: right
405 2018-09-20T19:27:20  <gmaxwell> I also worry about things that are intended to be 'cleanup' that make things slower.
406 2018-09-20T19:27:34  <wumpus> #action review https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14217
407 2018-09-20T19:27:54  <MarcoFalke> At least we have some monitoring to detect obvious slowdowns after merge
408 2018-09-20T19:28:02  <gmaxwell> See for example arvid's removal of INLINE that sipa commented on-- which actually seems to be okay, but its the sort of thing that could result in massive performance regressions.
409 2018-09-20T19:28:05  <MarcoFalke> Though, would be good to get the signal before merge
410 2018-09-20T19:28:19  <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes...
411 2018-09-20T19:28:27  <gmaxwell> MarcoFalke: yes, but it looks like it wasn't running very frequently which also makes it hard to tell which commit(s) did it.
412 2018-09-20T19:28:43  <gmaxwell> so perhaps my concern is best fixed by just improving the monitoring.
413 2018-09-20T19:28:48  <MarcoFalke> It runs about once a day, but we had some downtime last month
414 2018-09-20T19:28:54  <wumpus> that's another cleanup I really don't care for, for what it's worth
415 2018-09-20T19:29:02  <jamesob> gmaxwell: bitcoinperf shouldn't be down that long again
416 2018-09-20T19:29:05  <gmaxwell> OKAY
417 2018-09-20T19:29:22  <gmaxwell> Would it be possible to get it to run on each PR merge even if it falls behind?
418 2018-09-20T19:29:43  <MarcoFalke> The basic stuff for sure
419 2018-09-20T19:29:43  <jamesob> that's a lotta compute, but it's something I'm thinking about - and will have time to work on after the next month or so
420 2018-09-20T19:29:50  <MarcoFalke> IBD is the hardest
421 2018-09-20T19:30:11  <wumpus> could at least check whether cpp/h files were changed !
422 2018-09-20T19:30:33  <gmaxwell> I think it's silly for us to be bound on compute.
423 2018-09-20T19:30:36  <wumpus> it seems completely unnecessary to run it after a documentation change
424 2018-09-20T19:30:39  *** hebasto has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
425 2018-09-20T19:30:40  <sdaftuar> gmaxwell: agreed
426 2018-09-20T19:30:58  <gmaxwell> indeed, skipping pointless changes is good... but ultimately if we need a rack of computers to keep up with it, we should be able to get that.
427 2018-09-20T19:31:15  <wumpus> no one is stopping anyone from doing that, no :)
428 2018-09-20T19:31:55  <sipa> consistent performance numbers do need identical hardware etc
429 2018-09-20T19:31:58  <wumpus> could even run it on PRs
430 2018-09-20T19:32:00  <sipa> if you want to parallellize
431 2018-09-20T19:32:09  <wumpus> yes
432 2018-09-20T19:32:21  <gmaxwell> In absence of someone doing it we probably shouldn't just keep a commit flux that we can't adequately test though, and checking for perf regressions is part of it.
433 2018-09-20T19:32:24  <wumpus> it's kind of more expensive than what travis does, VMs would be useless for this
434 2018-09-20T19:32:35  <gmaxwell> indeed.
435 2018-09-20T19:33:42  <wumpus> in any case, I'm all for discouraging useless refactoring changes
436 2018-09-20T19:33:52  <wumpus> it sometimes feels like I'm the only person pushing back against them
437 2018-09-20T19:34:08  <jonasschnelli> no.. i'm with you
438 2018-09-20T19:35:49  <wumpus> any other topics?
439 2018-09-20T19:37:11  <wumpus> if not, I'm going to close the meeting and go to bed, need to get up very early tomorrow for my flight
440 2018-09-20T19:37:12  <cfields> I'm back full-time, still catching up. Please ping me if you have anything that was waiting for me or that I should get to quickly.
441 2018-09-20T19:37:19  <sipa> wumpus: safe travels
442 2018-09-20T19:37:29  <wumpus> cfields: welcome back !
443 2018-09-20T19:37:41  <jonasschnelli> cfields: great to hear!
444 2018-09-20T19:37:47  <wumpus> sipa: thank you
445 2018-09-20T19:38:00  <promag> cheers
446 2018-09-20T19:38:12  <MarcoFalke> safe travels!
447 2018-09-20T19:38:15  <luke-jr> cfields: I think I have at least one PR wumpus wanted you to look at, but no rush
448 2018-09-20T19:39:05  <MarcoFalke> proposed action: end meeting
449 2018-09-20T19:39:24  <promag> regarding practicalswift (are you here?), I think he should build something like bitcoinacks.com
450 2018-09-20T19:39:24  <sipa> ack
451 2018-09-20T19:39:35  <wumpus> #endmeeting
452 2018-09-20T19:39:35  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Sep 20 19:39:35 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
453 2018-09-20T19:39:35  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-09-20-19.02.html
454 2018-09-20T19:39:35  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-09-20-19.02.txt
455 2018-09-20T19:39:35  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-09-20-19.02.log.html
456 2018-09-20T19:39:37  <promag> but for his tools
457 2018-09-20T19:40:09  <cfields> luke-jr: roger
458 2018-09-20T19:41:07  <promag> jnewbery: should I open a PR to discuss the wallet tool test?
459 2018-09-20T19:41:50  *** treebeardd has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
460 2018-09-20T19:42:39  <provoostenator> Argh, timezones, sorry I missed the party/meeting.
461 2018-09-20T19:43:27  <jnewbery> promag: I think you could just oen a PR for a test for bitcoin-wallet-tool, including the commit from 13926. I expect any test would be merged as part of the original PR, but discussion of the tests can be in your new PR.
462 2018-09-20T19:44:26  *** paracyst has quit IRC
463 2018-09-20T19:44:35  <promag> yap
464 2018-09-20T19:44:54  *** paracyst has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
465 2018-09-20T19:45:02  <luke-jr> (I wish I could suggest new tools just get a new repo of their own, but I think in this case it's not practical :x )
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468 2018-09-20T19:50:24  <wumpus> indeed, that's not practical in this case, the whole point in this case is to share the low-level code with the wallet
469 2018-09-20T19:51:43  <wumpus> and it makes sense to ship it, every database worth its salt also comes with at least one recovery tool
470 2018-09-20T19:52:03  *** michaelsdunn1 has quit IRC
471 2018-09-20T19:53:30  <provoostenator> Fwiw compiling back to 0.5 isn't that hard, last time I tried: https://gist.github.com/Sjors/70f14baf1f834f3547bf35553faff610
472 2018-09-20T19:55:02  <luke-jr> I wonder if the gitian sigs still match
473 2018-09-20T19:56:14  <jcorgan> provoostenator: if you set the timezone for the meeting to Reykjavik it will always be correct. I think that's the only country that uses GMT all year.
474 2018-09-20T19:56:59  <sipa> (nit: Reykjavik is not a country)
475 2018-09-20T19:57:03  <jcorgan> sure, sure
476 2018-09-20T19:58:06  <provoostenator> jcorgan: my calender worked fine, I just ignored it
477 2018-09-20T19:58:11  <luke-jr> some calendar won't let you just set UTC?
478 2018-09-20T19:58:13  <jcorgan> heh
479 2018-09-20T19:58:19  <jcorgan> i don't think google does
480 2018-09-20T19:58:21  <sipa> luke-jr: google calendar
481 2018-09-20T20:00:17  <provoostenator> Can we get signed binaries for 0.15.2?
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487 2018-09-20T20:22:57  <clarkmoody> exit
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489 2018-09-20T20:23:11  <treyzania> nice
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492 2018-09-20T20:46:09  <michagogo> Um, I'm looking at a `git diff v0.14.2..v0.14.3`
493 2018-09-20T20:46:27  <michagogo> This version seems to introduce a whole bunch of typos o_O
494 2018-09-20T20:48:51  <michagogo> Oh, looks like it's actually all in one file: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/r7TtkcBE/
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