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 16 2018-10-04T01:38:39  <tradermyx> What is rpcbind=?
 17 2018-10-04T01:38:55  <sipa> the IP address to bind to when listening for incoming RPC connections
 18 2018-10-04T01:39:16  <tradermyx> Then what is rpcconnect?
 19 2018-10-04T01:39:20  <tradermyx> Which I thought was exactly that.
 20 2018-10-04T01:39:41  <sipa> rpcconnect is an RPC client setting, it sets the IP address to connect to
 21 2018-10-04T01:39:50  <sipa> rpcbind is an RPC server setting, it sets the IP address to listen on
 22 2018-10-04T01:40:04  <sipa> rpcconnect only affects bitcoin-cli
 23 2018-10-04T01:40:18  <sipa> rpcbind only affects bitcoind and bitcoin-qt (when running with -daemon)
 24 2018-10-04T01:42:15  <tradermyx> I have rpcconnect, rpcport, rpcuser, rpcpassword set in my bitcoin.conf. Don't really understand why Bitcoin Core needs to be told where to connect... itself?
 25 2018-10-04T01:42:44  <sipa> what are you trying to do?
 26 2018-10-04T01:42:54  <tradermyx> Come to think of it, I don't really understand what bitcoin-cli is either. I use standard cURL requests to talk to with the port specified (it works).
 27 2018-10-04T01:42:57  <sipa> rpcconnect is something you'd use when your bitcoind is running on another system
 28 2018-10-04T01:43:14  <sipa> if you use cURL, rpcconnect has no effect
 29 2018-10-04T01:43:16  <tradermyx> Hmm. I see. So it's already implied to be by default.
 30 2018-10-04T01:43:20  <sipa> right
 31 2018-10-04T01:43:42  <tradermyx> I didn't think Bitcoin Core itself had the ability to connect/do anything with the RPC API on a different machine.
 32 2018-10-04T01:44:12  <sipa> bitcoin-cli is really just a slightly-specialized version of curl
 33 2018-10-04T01:44:26  <sipa> it connects to a server, sends it a command, and shows the result
 34 2018-10-04T01:44:37  <sipa> and you can tell it where to connect
 35 2018-10-04T01:44:44  <sipa> but the default is
 36 2018-10-04T01:45:29  <tradermyx> How come it's not recommended to simply use that binary to talk to the API?
 37 2018-10-04T01:45:57  <sipa> what do you mean?
 38 2018-10-04T01:46:06  <tradermyx> (I just upgraded to 0.17 and https://bitcoincore.org/en/releases/0.17.0/ seems like a lot of work was put into it... Although I won't be using these new "labels" seeing as "accounts" was deprecated. Better handle that myself if at all.)
 39 2018-10-04T01:46:21  <tradermyx> sipa: I mean, why use cURL requests if I can just shell_exec() the bitcoin-cli binary?
 40 2018-10-04T01:46:50  <tradermyx> (I already have the cURL stuff working, so I'm purely asking out of curiosity.)
 41 2018-10-04T01:46:53  <gmaxwell> ... is you web service shell_execing right now?
 42 2018-10-04T01:47:01  <tradermyx> Nope.
 43 2018-10-04T01:47:23  <tradermyx> Just wondering what the point of that feature is. Or why it's not recommended to use.
 44 2018-10-04T01:47:58  <gmaxwell> It's the recommended way to use bitcoin from the commandline.
 45 2018-10-04T01:48:09  <gmaxwell> Which is what it's for.
 46 2018-10-04T01:48:23  <tradermyx> So for testing stuff manually?
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 48 2018-10-04T01:48:42  <gmaxwell> Usually one would not use it for programmatic access as it would be slower then making a connection via more conventional means.
 49 2018-10-04T01:49:01  <gmaxwell> tradermyx: no, not just for testing-- for working with and using the node and wallet.
 50 2018-10-04T01:49:05  <tradermyx> https://bitcoincore.org/en/doc/0.16.3/ <-- Is there not yet a 0.17 documentation uploaded? (Not in the menu and not when trying to modify the URL)
 51 2018-10-04T01:49:10  <tradermyx> Ah.
 52 2018-10-04T01:49:29  <sipa> but bitcoin-cli is a way for humans to talk to bitcoind
 53 2018-10-04T01:49:43  <sipa> you wouldn't want to use it for another program; there are far more efficient and convenient ways
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 55 2018-10-04T02:01:09  <tradermyx> It's extremely hard to even find rpcconnect mentioned anywhere, BTW. That goes in general for documentation on this stuff; it's sprinked onto countless webpages on different domains.
 56 2018-10-04T02:01:34  <tradermyx> Is the 0.17 documentation still being worked on and will become available soon?
 57 2018-10-04T02:02:28  <sipa> butcoin-cli --hrlp
 58 2018-10-04T02:02:48  <sipa> sorry
 59 2018-10-04T02:02:53  <sipa> butcoin-cli --help
 60 2018-10-04T02:03:11  <sipa> the website is just generated from the built-in help text
 61 2018-10-04T02:04:26  <tradermyx> Then it's especially odd that it's not updated on the site, if it's automated. Note: Not "complaining" -- just pointing things out as I find them.
 62 2018-10-04T02:04:42  <tradermyx> This is a fascinating piece of software for sure.
 63 2018-10-04T02:05:09  <tradermyx> I like the idea of theoretically being able to control money in this way. My bank actively prevents even automating logging in to view saldo.
 64 2018-10-04T02:05:18  <sipa> you're very welcome to help out with efforts to automate it :)
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 84 2018-10-04T03:28:20  <tradermyx> sipa: I thought it was already automated?
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 91 2018-10-04T04:05:10  <sipa> tradermyx: apparently not enough :)
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111 2018-10-04T06:05:18  <karelb> tradermyx: I made a PR :D
112 2018-10-04T06:05:38  <karelb> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/618
113 2018-10-04T06:05:59  <karelb> it's automated as in "someone has to run the script and git-commit and make a PR"
114 2018-10-04T06:07:32  <karelb> I have no idea how would to automate this on every release...
115 2018-10-04T06:08:19  <karelb> (the RPC diff is linked in the PR if you are interested)
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117 2018-10-04T06:13:43  <karelb> (oh he quit already)
118 2018-10-04T06:16:56  <karelb> anyway how would one go automate this.... even putting binaries etc online is not automated and I see @harding putting them online manually each release?
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124 2018-10-04T06:22:19  <sipa> karelb: perhaps one step would be adding it to the bitcoin core release process notes
125 2018-10-04T06:23:06  <karelb> sipa: 👍 good idea
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128 2018-10-04T06:54:43  <hebasto> MarcoFalke: what is minimal codespell version to run test/lint/lint-spelling.sh successfully?
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152 2018-10-04T09:13:33  <fanquake> Will there still be a meeting tomorrow morning? I'm hoping I might actually be able to join between flights
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193 2018-10-04T12:59:45  <harding> Each week, I look through the previous week's commits for interesting ones to document for the Optech newsletter.  As part of that weekly routine, I'd be willing to write up any undocumented notable changes for the release notes---hopefully significantly cutting down on the work during the RC cycle---but I'd like suggestions on the best way to do that.  Should I submit a PR each week to update the release notes?  Or save up my
194 2018-10-04T12:59:45  <harding> work for a monthly PR?  Or maybe  maintain the release notes on the devwiki full time?  Or something else?
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196 2018-10-04T13:08:58  <sipa> harding: that sounds awesome
197 2018-10-04T13:09:09  <sipa> though i think weekly is probably too ofte
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201 2018-10-04T13:12:13  <harding> sipa: yeah, that's what I was thinking.  I guess I'll start with monthly and we can tweak it from there.
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241 2018-10-04T17:17:42  <gmaxwell> [OT] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies?srnd=businessweek-v2  pervasive chinese backdoor chips found in supermicro hardware, chinese AWS.
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243 2018-10-04T17:31:11  <wumpus> yes, ouch.
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260 2018-10-04T19:00:07  <promag> wumpus: having a family dinner, can you add #14291 to HP?
261 2018-10-04T19:00:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14291 | wallet: Add ListWalletDir utility function by promag · Pull Request #14291 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
262 2018-10-04T19:00:57  <promag> it's a dependency for #14350 and #13100
263 2018-10-04T19:00:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14350 | Add WalletInfo class by promag · Pull Request #14350 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
264 2018-10-04T19:01:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13100 | gui: Add dynamic wallets support by promag · Pull Request #13100 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
265 2018-10-04T19:02:49  <wumpus> #startmeeting
266 2018-10-04T19:02:49  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Oct  4 19:02:49 2018 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
267 2018-10-04T19:02:49  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
268 2018-10-04T19:02:55  <wumpus> promag: sure
269 2018-10-04T19:02:58  <promag> hi
270 2018-10-04T19:03:00  <promag> thanks!
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272 2018-10-04T19:04:12  <phantomcircuit> hi
273 2018-10-04T19:05:05  <jcorgan> i bet many are sleeping or about to
274 2018-10-04T19:05:07  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr btcdrak sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator
275 2018-10-04T19:05:18  <wumpus> yes—I expect so too
276 2018-10-04T19:05:25  <jonasschnelli> hi
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278 2018-10-04T19:05:43  <wumpus> don't know if we really have things to discuss without the people in Tokyo
279 2018-10-04T19:05:51  *** ken2812221_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
280 2018-10-04T19:05:56  * jonasschnelli is sad to miss SB tokyo
281 2018-10-04T19:06:01  * wumpus too
282 2018-10-04T19:06:17  <jcorgan> #MeToo
283 2018-10-04T19:06:22  <jcorgan> sri
284 2018-10-04T19:06:25  <jonasschnelli> heh
285 2018-10-04T19:06:38  <wumpus> lol
286 2018-10-04T19:07:26  <gmaxwell> hi
287 2018-10-04T19:07:27  <wumpus> anything for high-priority for review? or what can be merged? I haven't been able to focus much this week
288 2018-10-04T19:07:44  <phantomcircuit> #14335 and maybe #14336
289 2018-10-04T19:07:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14335 | net: refactor: cleanup ThreadSocketHandler by pstratem · Pull Request #14335 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
290 2018-10-04T19:07:47  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14336 | net: implement poll by pstratem · Pull Request #14336 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
291 2018-10-04T19:08:19  <phantomcircuit> i still cant exactly ping down why some of the commits in 14336 fail tests but the final one doesn't
292 2018-10-04T19:08:28  <phantomcircuit> and they seem like races more than actual failures
293 2018-10-04T19:08:41  <wumpus> do they fail locally for you too?
294 2018-10-04T19:08:43  <wumpus> or only on travis?
295 2018-10-04T19:09:01  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, only on travis
296 2018-10-04T19:09:12  <wumpus> aww
297 2018-10-04T19:09:25  <wumpus> I can try running them in some weird environments
298 2018-10-04T19:10:29  <phantomcircuit> 14335 however passes everywhere
299 2018-10-04T19:10:34  <gmaxwell> you might try inserting sleeps to see if you can trigger something locally.
300 2018-10-04T19:10:38  <wumpus> so if they are races they only happen part of the time, not always
301 2018-10-04T19:10:45  <phantomcircuit> it's just refactoring no logic changes at all now
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303 2018-10-04T19:11:02  <wumpus> well if it causes test failures there might be logic changes you don't know about
304 2018-10-04T19:11:07  <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i can randomly trigger the rpc_zmq.py test to fail
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306 2018-10-04T19:11:14  <wumpus> I don't think a pure refactoring can result in more races
307 2018-10-04T19:11:17  <phantomcircuit> but it's zmq so i would expect it to be very racey
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309 2018-10-04T19:11:27  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, yeah that pr doesn't have any issues
310 2018-10-04T19:11:34  <wumpus> no, zmq is not inherently racy
311 2018-10-04T19:11:35  <phantomcircuit> it's just the one implementing poll()
312 2018-10-04T19:11:43  <phantomcircuit> (this is why it's two separate pulls)
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314 2018-10-04T19:12:10  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, the test is though, it starts the node and then instantly makes an rpc call for zmq notifications
315 2018-10-04T19:12:14  <wumpus> (maybe our use of it is, I don't now)
316 2018-10-04T19:12:25  <wumpus> ohh
317 2018-10-04T19:12:27  <jcorgan> the test is written in a racy way as described
318 2018-10-04T19:12:27  <phantomcircuit> cant probably make that more robust but im not super familiar with the testing framework
319 2018-10-04T19:13:39  <wumpus> someone needs to take a look at it; we can't merge something that makes any test randomly fail, as it wil keep coming back in later PRs
320 2018-10-04T19:13:51  <wumpus> #action reviews #14336
321 2018-10-04T19:13:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14336 | net: implement poll by pstratem · Pull Request #14336 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
322 2018-10-04T19:14:34  <gmaxwell> We should just fix that test, but is the zmq test the only one that fails?
323 2018-10-04T19:14:46  <gmaxwell> There is something other tests do to wait until the node is ready.
324 2018-10-04T19:15:00  <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, feature notifications fails on windows
325 2018-10-04T19:15:01  <wumpus> yes, fixing the test is acceptable too if it is broken
326 2018-10-04T19:15:17  <phantomcircuit> but im having trouble replicating that for a whole bunch of reasons
327 2018-10-04T19:16:15  <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, they wait on nodes to be synchronized i think, but that doesn't apply to the zmq test
328 2018-10-04T19:16:31  <phantomcircuit> (again im not exactly sure though)
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330 2018-10-04T19:16:58  <jcorgan> which file is the zmq test
331 2018-10-04T19:17:03  <wumpus> if there's multiple nodes connected to each other they need to wait to be synchronized
332 2018-10-04T19:17:21  <phantomcircuit> jcorgan, test/functional/rpc_zmq.py
333 2018-10-04T19:17:26  <wumpus> test/functional/rpc_zmq.py
334 2018-10-04T19:17:28  <wumpus> yes
335 2018-10-04T19:17:34  <phantomcircuit> jynx
336 2018-10-04T19:19:02  <wumpus> okay, any other topics?
337 2018-10-04T19:19:08  <jcorgan> it's the assert on L31 that non-deterministically fails?
338 2018-10-04T19:19:37  <gmaxwell> I could give a little update on our work on set recon relay which has been ongoing.
339 2018-10-04T19:19:56  <wumpus> lol that test doesn't even *test* zmq
340 2018-10-04T19:20:03  <wumpus> I don't understand how it can fail
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342 2018-10-04T19:20:38  <wumpus> it jst tests some administrative rpc functions related to zmq
343 2018-10-04T19:21:02  <wumpus> gmaxwell: might be better to do that when there's more people
344 2018-10-04T19:21:21  <gmaxwell> OK
345 2018-10-04T19:21:24  <wumpus> but, is up to you
346 2018-10-04T19:21:48  <jcorgan> maybe it's interface_zmq.py
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349 2018-10-04T19:22:19  <wumpus> jcorgan: that's the one that really tests the zmq interface, yes
350 2018-10-04T19:22:45  <gmaxwell> wumpus: well, I'd like to-- the people who aren't here will probably hear about it at the events there at. :)
351 2018-10-04T19:22:48  <jcorgan> right, but is that the one randomly failing?
352 2018-10-04T19:23:19  <wumpus> phantomcircuit: I don't understand it, you make P2P changes, and a test completely unrelated to P2P starts failing
353 2018-10-04T19:23:20  <gmaxwell> wumpus: I guess it can fail if the node isn't up by the time it attempts the rpc?
354 2018-10-04T19:23:52  <wumpus> unless your poll somehow interferes with libevent, but I wouldn't understand why
355 2018-10-04T19:23:55  <gmaxwell> like, e.g. poll having a sleep timeout during startup where the select didn't could slow down bringup slightly.
356 2018-10-04T19:24:15  <wumpus> the test framework is smart enough to wait for the RPC interface to actually work, AFAIK
357 2018-10-04T19:24:31  <wumpus> (there's this 'warmup' period that it needs to ignore, for example)
358 2018-10-04T19:24:32  <gmaxwell> if so, then I've got no suggstions. :)
359 2018-10-04T19:24:56  <wumpus> well it mightb be that this test does something ... special
360 2018-10-04T19:25:15  <wumpus> #topic recon relay (gmaxwell)
361 2018-10-04T19:25:42  <gmaxwell> Sipa, gleb, and I have been continuing to work on set recon relay.  Gleb has made a lot of progress with simulations.
362 2018-10-04T19:26:28  <gmaxwell> In his simulated network topology he shows that the best possible (no 'overhead') relay using 8 byte tx identifiers would use about 44x less bandwidth for relay than what the code currently does.
363 2018-10-04T19:27:40  <gmaxwell> (optimal would basically be exach node gets exactly 1 inv per tx and no more) Simulations of our recon work don't quite achieve optimality (since we also want relay to be reasonably fast) but end up only using 2-3x the bandwidth of the theoretically optimal usage, which sounds pretty good compared to 44x. :)
364 2018-10-04T19:28:25  <gmaxwell> Sipa and I (mostly sipa) have been working on optimizing the recon code itself, which is in part important because its performance helps tell us what parameters make sense to propose.
365 2018-10-04T19:28:36  <gmaxwell> E.g. some benchmark results from last night: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/temp/srr2.png
366 2018-10-04T19:28:42  <wumpus> nice !
367 2018-10-04T19:29:33  <gmaxwell> This shows how long it takes to do the computation for reconciling 150 differences (which is a good high watermark from glebs simulations), as a function of how long the short-txids we're using (in bits).
368 2018-10-04T19:30:22  <gmaxwell> The graph shows that some sizes are much faster in the implementation currently, for optimization (and the number theory that enables those optimizations) reasons.
369 2018-10-04T19:30:26  <wumpus> 44x less bandwidth is more than impressive, I didn't know that the invs were such a large part of the traffic
370 2018-10-04T19:31:25  <gmaxwell> Ah! that figure is perfectly efficient invs (one inv per host) vs invs in what we do today.  Invs are a majority of traffic on nodes right now, but those figure ignore all the non-inv traffic.
371 2018-10-04T19:31:25  <wumpus> but that's similar to my surprise how much (at least of outgoing traffic) is 'reject' messages
372 2018-10-04T19:31:50  <gmaxwell> So in terms of actual total traffic impact, maybe halve those numbers for your expectations.
373 2018-10-04T19:32:09  <sipa> ohai
374 2018-10-04T19:32:38  <gmaxwell> Basically gleb's simulator simulates a plausable bitcoin network topology, and then measures how transactions relay around in it with different relaying schemes, so we can try different ideas and measure their impacts.
375 2018-10-04T19:32:55  <gmaxwell> So in any case, lots of progress going on there.
376 2018-10-04T19:32:59  <wumpus> is this simulator available anywhere?
377 2018-10-04T19:33:36  <gmaxwell> Not yet. Sipa and I need to convince gleb that his code is not too awful, I think.
378 2018-10-04T19:34:10  <wumpus> no hurry, though it would be nice to have, if it was available we'd want to link it
379 2018-10-04T19:34:16  <gmaxwell> Absolutely.
380 2018-10-04T19:34:53  <gmaxwell> In any case, right now we're still in a fairly researchy mode, looping over detailed ideas and feeding the results back in to tell us what to try next.
381 2018-10-04T19:35:48  <gmaxwell> Thats all I've got for now, unless sleepwalking sipa has more.
382 2018-10-04T19:36:16  <sipa> not really
383 2018-10-04T19:36:52  <wumpus> you could say so, it's .. 04:36 there?
384 2018-10-04T19:37:26  <wumpus> thanks for the update!
385 2018-10-04T19:38:44  <wumpus> I guess it's time to close the meeting
386 2018-10-04T19:39:04  <wumpus> #endmeeting
387 2018-10-04T19:39:04  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Oct  4 19:39:04 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
388 2018-10-04T19:39:04  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-10-04-19.02.html
389 2018-10-04T19:39:04  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-10-04-19.02.txt
390 2018-10-04T19:39:04  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-10-04-19.02.log.html
391 2018-10-04T19:39:05  <gmaxwell> Sounds good.
392 2018-10-04T19:39:18  <sipa> i wasn't trying to make the meeting even (i completely.forgot about it), but jetlag made me randomly wake up
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394 2018-10-04T19:43:36  <gmaxwell> That ZMQ rpc test looks like it has a pretty poor ratio of speed to utility. It doesn't really even seem to actually test anything other than calling the RPCs doesn't catch fire.
395 2018-10-04T19:44:04  <gmaxwell> Which is not totally useless, but not terribly useful either.
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397 2018-10-04T19:45:46  <jcorgan> are there other tests like that one for other RPC calls?
398 2018-10-04T19:47:37  <jcorgan> i don't see any others that just test that one thing
399 2018-10-04T19:49:20  <gmaxwell> I was going to write that it would probably make sense to merge all 'just run the thing and don't test anything much' tests into a single test, but ZMQ might already just be seperate because the software might not be compiled with ZMQ support.
400 2018-10-04T19:49:59  <jcorgan> well it uses the skip check, those could be rolled in
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402 2018-10-04T19:53:30  <jcorgan> i guess that would apply to the whole module, though, so no
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409 2018-10-04T20:44:55  <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it's separate so it doesn't run when zmq isn't available
410 2018-10-04T20:45:01  <phantomcircuit> and that seems to be a module level thing
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430 2018-10-04T22:54:44  <kanzure> yes we were busy in tokyo
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