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 22 2019-07-18T02:05:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/459baa1756b7...0515406acb5d
 23 2019-07-18T02:05:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6a7a70b Jon Atack: test: enable passing wildcards with path to test runner
 24 2019-07-18T02:05:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e142ee0 Jon Atack: doc: describe how to pass wildcard names to test runner
 25 2019-07-18T02:05:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0515406 fanquake: Merge #16374: test: Enable passing wildcard test names to test runner from...
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 28 2019-07-18T02:06:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16374: test: Enable passing wildcard test names to test runner from root (master...enable-passing-wildcard-files-to-test-runner-from-root) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16374
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 43 2019-07-18T03:06:28  <fanquake> promag: can you check my understanding in 16405
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 55 2019-07-18T05:02:54  <kallewoof> luke-jr: are you around to give feedback/potential number assignment to/of https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/803 ?
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 57 2019-07-18T05:12:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof opened pull request #16411: Signet support (master...signet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16411
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132 2019-07-18T11:18:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] tecnovert opened pull request #16412: net: Make poll in InterruptibleRecv only filter for POLLIN events. (master...bitcoin-poll) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16412
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143 2019-07-18T11:58:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0515406acb5d...65d12110d43a
144 2019-07-18T11:58:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a981e74 João Barbosa: fix: tor: Call event_base_loopbreak from the event's callback
145 2019-07-18T11:58:47  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 65d1211 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #16405: fix: tor: Call event_base_loopbreak from the event's callbac...
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148 2019-07-18T11:59:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #16405: fix: tor: Call event_base_loopbreak from the event's callback (master...2019-07-fix-break-before-dispatch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16405
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160 2019-07-18T12:23:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] THETCR opened pull request #16413: depends: Bump QT to LTS release 5.9.8 (master...qt-lts) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16413
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164 2019-07-18T12:28:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/65d12110d43a...e5abb59a9a66
165 2019-07-18T12:28:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ae311bc Hennadii Stepanov: Fix autostart filenames on Linux
166 2019-07-18T12:28:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e5abb59 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #16379: Fix autostart filenames on Linux for testnet/regtest
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169 2019-07-18T12:29:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #16379: Fix autostart filenames on Linux for testnet/regtest (master...20190712-fix-autostart) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16379
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175 2019-07-18T13:04:27  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic  Remove mempool expiry, treat txs as replaceable instead #16409
176 2019-07-18T13:04:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16409 | Remove mempool expiry, treat txs as replaceable instead by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #16409 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
177 2019-07-18T13:04:37  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic 0.18.1
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179 2019-07-18T13:06:33  <fanquake> Don't think I'll be at the meeting, but ACK kicking off 0.18.1
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181 2019-07-18T13:06:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to 0.18: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/410774ab89fd...3f76160087c0
182 2019-07-18T13:06:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.18 b2711b9 João Barbosa: fix: tor: Call event_base_loopbreak from the event's callback
183 2019-07-18T13:06:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.18 3f76160 fanquake: Merge #16406: 0.18: fix: tor: Call event_base_loopbreak from the event's c...
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186 2019-07-18T13:07:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16406: 0.18: fix: tor: Call event_base_loopbreak from the event's callback (0.18...2019-07-backport-16405) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16406
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194 2019-07-18T13:52:00  <promag> regarding 0.18.1, just to be clear, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13339#issuecomment-504653790 is a no go?
195 2019-07-18T13:53:21  <promag> we already have "experimental" features and IMHO the lack of this feature invalidates some multi wallet usages
196 2019-07-18T13:54:11  <sdaftuar> #proposedmeetingtopic -blocksonly not being a hidden option in 0.18.1
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201 2019-07-18T14:05:32  <wumpus> please, let's try to cut 0.18.1 at some point
202 2019-07-18T14:05:35  <wumpus> and not keep adding things t oit
203 2019-07-18T14:06:08  <promag> just asking, again :P
204 2019-07-18T14:07:28  <promag> what about #16322
205 2019-07-18T14:07:30  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16322 | wallet: Fix -maxtxfee check by moving it to CWallet::CreateTransaction by promag · Pull Request #16322 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
206 2019-07-18T14:08:20  <promag> is has "Needs backport"
207 2019-07-18T14:09:00  <promag> it's not a clean backport
208 2019-07-18T14:09:10  <promag> (by far)
209 2019-07-18T14:09:25  <wumpus> ok, maybe it can wait until 0.18.2 then
210 2019-07-18T14:09:45  <promag> +1
211 2019-07-18T14:09:49  <MarcoFalke> Wat?
212 2019-07-18T14:10:04  <promag> I mean I agree
213 2019-07-18T14:10:08  <MarcoFalke> I don't
214 2019-07-18T14:10:19  <promag> ok then :D
215 2019-07-18T14:10:31  <MarcoFalke> Users are throwing away coins due to a bug in our software
216 2019-07-18T14:10:32  <wumpus> ok, 0.18.1 plans for today are off...
217 2019-07-18T14:10:49  <wumpus> *resets tree*
218 2019-07-18T14:11:01  <MarcoFalke> sorry :(
219 2019-07-18T14:11:39  <promag> backporting that requires some refactors
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221 2019-07-18T14:11:53  <MarcoFalke> promag: Would the backport be clean if you also cherry picked the change where the txerros are moved to the new file?
222 2019-07-18T14:11:53  <promag> or rewrite the fix in 0.17 without those refactors
223 2019-07-18T14:12:06  <wumpus> it's a compromise with how bad the current bugs are that require the 0.18.1 release in the first place, if you think this bug is *much worse* than what the fixed already in it fix, well then it makes sense to wait
224 2019-07-18T14:12:07  <promag> i mean 0.18
225 2019-07-18T14:12:25  <wumpus> if not, it just exposes users to other bugs for longer
226 2019-07-18T14:12:50  <promag> MarcoFalke: I'll have to check that
227 2019-07-18T14:13:12  <MarcoFalke> The maxtxfee is not a regression. I has existed for all time, I think. I am glad that promag finally fixed it
228 2019-07-18T14:14:08  <wumpus> I'm also glad that he fixed it, don't get me wrong
229 2019-07-18T14:14:14  <promag> it depends on #15778 and #15638
230 2019-07-18T14:14:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15778 | [wallet] Move maxtxfee from node to wallet by jnewbery · Pull Request #15778 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
231 2019-07-18T14:14:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15638 | Move-only: Pull wallet code out of libbitcoin_server by ryanofsky · Pull Request #15638 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
232 2019-07-18T14:14:21  <wumpus> *hasty last minute difficult backport* just sounds risky to me
233 2019-07-18T14:14:25  <promag> amd #16257
234 2019-07-18T14:14:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16257 | [wallet] abort when attempting to fund a transaction above -maxtxfee by Sjors · Pull Request #16257 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
235 2019-07-18T14:15:41  <wumpus> if it was a clean merge there would be no argument I think
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237 2019-07-18T14:16:49  <promag> this sounds too much to backport. actually I've tried but at some point I gave up because of the required changes
238 2019-07-18T14:17:40  <promag> but the real fix Marco mentions is to check maxtxfee in CreateTransaction, this could be implemented I guess
239 2019-07-18T14:18:04  <wumpus> a subset of the fix that solves the worst issue would do
240 2019-07-18T14:18:08  <wumpus> especially if easy to review
241 2019-07-18T14:18:52  <promag> this -> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16322/files#diff-b2bb174788c7409b671c46ccc86034bdR3125
242 2019-07-18T14:19:05  <promag> and the tests
243 2019-07-18T14:20:32  <wumpus> the tests don't have the sameconcerns, backport as much refactors as you need there
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246 2019-07-18T14:35:18  <wumpus> looks like #16412 needs to hold up 0.18.1 too
247 2019-07-18T14:35:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16412 | net: Make poll in InterruptibleRecv only filter for POLLIN events. by tecnovert · Pull Request #16412 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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265 2019-07-18T15:23:44  <wumpus> sdaftuar: ok, I see #15990 has been backported to 0.18.1, the intent of your meeting topic is whether it should be hidden again?
266 2019-07-18T15:23:47  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15990 | Add tests and documentation for blocksonly by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #15990 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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276 2019-07-18T15:45:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #16414: 0.18: wallet: Fix -maxtxfee check by moving it to CWallet::CreateTransaction (0.18...2019-07-backport-16322) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16414
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284 2019-07-18T15:58:48  <promag> MarcoFalke: wumpus: wip backport ^
285 2019-07-18T15:59:09  <promag> let me know if I should squash
286 2019-07-18T16:04:11  <kallewoof> I would like to request that #16411 is added to Chasing Concept ACK (will probably crash before meeting starts).
287 2019-07-18T16:04:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16411 | Signet support by kallewoof · Pull Request #16411 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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300 2019-07-18T16:39:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #16415: Get rid of PendingWalletTx class (master...pr/nopend) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16415
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321 2019-07-18T17:38:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #16416: Negated -datadir option implies default datadir (master...20190718-nodatadir) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16416
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341 2019-07-18T18:33:50  <sdaftuar> wumpus: my topic suggestion is more to discuss the implications of there being more -blocksonly listening nodes out there
342 2019-07-18T18:37:14  <wumpus> okay,makes sense
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346 2019-07-18T18:44:02  <warren> sdaftuar: is their motivation bandwidth reduction?
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350 2019-07-18T18:49:27  <dongcarl> wumpus: reading the addrv2 BIP now... why VARINT for time and service bits, why not just u64s?
351 2019-07-18T18:49:52  <sdaftuar> warren: presumably?
352 2019-07-18T18:50:52  <wumpus> dongcarl: to save space in the common case
353 2019-07-18T18:50:54  <gleb> There are also attack vectors implied by transaction relay topology leaks, but I don't know for now how practical those are.
354 2019-07-18T18:50:56  <wumpus> (bandwidth)
355 2019-07-18T18:51:11  <sipa> who is they?
356 2019-07-18T18:51:30  <gleb> -blocksonly listening nodes I think?
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358 2019-07-18T18:52:01  <sipa> i mean in warren's question, "they" seems to refer to persons
359 2019-07-18T18:52:05  <wumpus> dongcarl: these are structures which are potentially repeated many times in a packet, so every byte saved is good
360 2019-07-18T18:52:27  <wumpus> dongcarl: why the preference for u64s?
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362 2019-07-18T18:53:15  <dongcarl> Eh, just thought it's simpler
363 2019-07-18T18:53:21  <wumpus> one thing that addrv2 does, too, is represent ipv4 addresses as four bytes
364 2019-07-18T18:54:02  <dongcarl> wumpus: Oh, that's good
365 2019-07-18T18:54:08  <sipa> a varint for a 33-bit value is also 8 bytes
366 2019-07-18T18:54:15  <sipa> *9 bytes
367 2019-07-18T18:54:32  <wumpus> so if you, at the same time, blow up time to 8 bytes...
368 2019-07-18T18:54:39  <sipa> assuming it is refering to the usual protocol compactsize encoding, not our internal varint encoding
369 2019-07-18T18:54:56  <wumpus> sipa: yes, one suggestion was to quantize time, this would avoid some topology leak attacks as well as save space
370 2019-07-18T18:55:30  <sipa> i don't see the topology argument; it's just the data inside the addresses, not their encoding that matters?
371 2019-07-18T18:55:54  <wumpus> precise last-seen times allowed for that
372 2019-07-18T18:56:30  <wumpus> AFAIK there was already a mitigation against that, though
373 2019-07-18T18:57:23  <dongcarl> Right, there seems to be quite a few possibilities for the "time" field discussed in the BIP
374 2019-07-18T18:57:30  <wumpus> "(gmaxwell) If you care about space time field could be reduced to 16 bits easily. Turn it into a "time ago seen" quantized to 1 hour precision. (IIRC we quantize times to 2hrs regardless)."
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376 2019-07-18T18:57:37  <dongcarl> 1. UNIX epoch 2. last seen 3. whether to quantize
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378 2019-07-18T18:57:53  <wumpus> oh, right
379 2019-07-18T18:58:18  <wumpus> I kind of forgot that he made the "time ago" suggestion, it seems weird for gossiping
380 2019-07-18T18:59:07  <dongcarl> I feel like epoch quantized to 1 hr precision sounds good...
381 2019-07-18T18:59:09  <wumpus> dongcarl: in the BIP itself it simply encodes absolute time, those considerations are separate
382 2019-07-18T18:59:23  <dongcarl> not sure what is meant by (we quantize time to 2hr regardless)
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384 2019-07-18T19:00:00  <wumpus> apparently we already do that in the net code
385 2019-07-18T19:00:05  <wumpus> to mitigate the topology leak attack
386 2019-07-18T19:00:08  <wumpus> but I don't know where tbh
387 2019-07-18T19:00:21  <meshcollider> meeting?
388 2019-07-18T19:00:22  <dongcarl> sounds like I need to do more documentin'
389 2019-07-18T19:00:27  <dongcarl> hi
390 2019-07-18T19:00:28  <wumpus> #startmeeting
391 2019-07-18T19:00:28  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 18 19:00:28 2019 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
392 2019-07-18T19:00:28  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
393 2019-07-18T19:00:31  <jnewbery> hi
394 2019-07-18T19:00:40  <kanzure> hi
395 2019-07-18T19:00:42  <jonasschnelli> hi
396 2019-07-18T19:00:43  <kallewoof> hello
397 2019-07-18T19:00:52  <hebasto> hi
398 2019-07-18T19:00:57  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral
399 2019-07-18T19:01:05  <achow101> hi
400 2019-07-18T19:01:07  <sipa> hi
401 2019-07-18T19:01:07  <meshcollider> hi
402 2019-07-18T19:01:10  * dongcarl would like to talk about addrv2 some more after the meeting if people have time
403 2019-07-18T19:01:29  <luke-jr> hi
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405 2019-07-18T19:01:31  <jamesob> hi
406 2019-07-18T19:02:19  <moneyball> hi
407 2019-07-18T19:02:32  <wumpus> three topics proposed in https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a this time:  Remove mempool expiry, treat txs as replaceable instead , 0.18.1 and "-blocksonly not being a hidden option in 0.18.1"
408 2019-07-18T19:02:35  <moneyball> https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
409 2019-07-18T19:02:49  <cfields> hi
410 2019-07-18T19:04:06  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
411 2019-07-18T19:04:24  <warren> hi
412 2019-07-18T19:04:31  <wumpus> current: 4 blockers, 5 things chasing concept ACK
413 2019-07-18T19:04:36  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
414 2019-07-18T19:04:36  <gleb> hi
415 2019-07-18T19:04:54  <jamesob> was hoping to get #16355 added
416 2019-07-18T19:04:56  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16355 | refactor: move CCoinsViewErrorCatcher out of init.cpp by jamesob · Pull Request #16355 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
417 2019-07-18T19:04:56  <wumpus> anything to add, anything ready for merge?
418 2019-07-18T19:05:16  <jonasschnelli> May I add #16202 to the list?
419 2019-07-18T19:05:18  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16202 | Refactor network message deserialization by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #16202 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
420 2019-07-18T19:05:28  <kallewoof> wumpus: I would like #16411 in Chasing Concept ACK, if possible
421 2019-07-18T19:05:31  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16411 | Signet support by kallewoof · Pull Request #16411 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
422 2019-07-18T19:05:52  <wumpus> jamesob jonasschnelli kallewoof sure
423 2019-07-18T19:06:01  <jamesob> thanks!
424 2019-07-18T19:07:39  <wumpus> ok added
425 2019-07-18T19:07:55  <wumpus> there are *many* things chasing concept ACK, are there any making progress (maybe enough to remove them?)
426 2019-07-18T19:09:56  <luke-jr> I almost wonder if concept-acks should be done separately from PRs, with more user input
427 2019-07-18T19:09:56  <wumpus> #topic Remove mempool expiry, treat txs as replaceable instead (MarcoFalke)
428 2019-07-18T19:10:27  <MarcoFalke> Pull request is here #16409
429 2019-07-18T19:10:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16409 | Remove mempool expiry, treat txs as replaceable instead by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #16409 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
430 2019-07-18T19:10:35  <MarcoFalke> And already received some feedback
431 2019-07-18T19:10:42  <luke-jr> Sounds like it should be two PRs…
432 2019-07-18T19:10:55  <wumpus> luke-jr: not sure separating them out is a key to get more interest imo
433 2019-07-18T19:11:15  <luke-jr> expiry helps remove unconfirming txs from RAM etc
434 2019-07-18T19:11:19  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Yeah, if removing expiry is so controversial, then yes
435 2019-07-18T19:11:37  <wumpus> anything that touches policy is probably somewhat controversial
436 2019-07-18T19:11:52  <sipa> another approach is to make the marginal-cost-for-replacement go to 0 after some time
437 2019-07-18T19:11:57  <sdaftuar> I think expiry performs an important job, albeit not perfectly, which is handling diverse node policies in a semi-reasonable way
438 2019-07-18T19:12:08  <luke-jr> but what if the sender doesn't replace?
439 2019-07-18T19:12:11  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: YOu can not expect to use that ram anyway, since you set the max usage to well the max usage
440 2019-07-18T19:12:11  <sipa> yeah, i'd need to think more about the impact there
441 2019-07-18T19:12:38  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: it might not always be maxxed out
442 2019-07-18T19:12:47  <jnewbery> sipa: that doesn't solve the case of txs being pinned
443 2019-07-18T19:12:56  <sipa> jnewbery: ah yes
444 2019-07-18T19:14:01  <MarcoFalke> sipa: I don't see this as an issue in the network as of today (it is mostly theoretical)
445 2019-07-18T19:14:23  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: it's an issue because people are designing around it
446 2019-07-18T19:14:28  <sdaftuar> the issue of diverse node policies is an issue
447 2019-07-18T19:14:32  <midnightmagic> I was going to say, expiry is super useful..
448 2019-07-18T19:14:43  <sdaftuar> if we deploy this now, then in the future when we make a policy change, we'll have a problem to think about
449 2019-07-18T19:14:51  <sdaftuar> which we won't have a good way to solve
450 2019-07-18T19:15:42  <MarcoFalke> sdaftuar: Agree that it might be premature to remove expiry right now, but in the long term it could at least be limited to high-fee txs
451 2019-07-18T19:15:48  <wumpus> what is the primary motivation to remove expiry?
452 2019-07-18T19:16:16  <sipa> sdaftuar: when a policy change happens, there is always a shutdown+restart involved, no?
453 2019-07-18T19:16:25  <sipa> sdaftuar: so there is a load from mempool.dat in between?
454 2019-07-18T19:16:29  <sdaftuar> the issue is around what happens to old nodes
455 2019-07-18T19:16:34  <MarcoFalke> If miners are running the default settings, they might throw away income. If they are not, then nodes have a false sense of what can be replaced
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457 2019-07-18T19:16:46  <sdaftuar> which will not have the new rule, but will also not exprie things that are not getting mined
458 2019-07-18T19:16:52  <luke-jr> not just old nodes. even updated nodes don't have a common policy
459 2019-07-18T19:17:00  <sdaftuar> luke-jr: i agree with that too
460 2019-07-18T19:17:15  <MarcoFalke> So the rbf pinning issue jnewbery mentions is not solved if miners are keeping the tx and you can replace it in your own mempool
461 2019-07-18T19:17:32  <wumpus> so dropping expiry would mean that some transactions could get stuck in the mempool literally forever
462 2019-07-18T19:17:38  <sdaftuar> wumpus: exactly
463 2019-07-18T19:17:57  <sipa> i feel 2 weeks is sufficiently long that it isn't actually affecting anything that will likely confirm
464 2019-07-18T19:18:01  <sipa> do we have numbers otherwise?
465 2019-07-18T19:18:11  <wumpus> even an expiry of, say, 2 month would be better than none at all in that regard
466 2019-07-18T19:18:16  <sipa> like at what rate do transactions get expired from common mempools?
467 2019-07-18T19:18:23  <sipa> and do any of them still confirm after?
468 2019-07-18T19:18:57  <sipa> or maybe even better, how often do transaction expire from the mempool, and then re-enter it?
469 2019-07-18T19:18:58  <wumpus> would be useful to have that information
470 2019-07-18T19:19:10  <kallewoof> sipa: I can get those numbers
471 2019-07-18T19:19:22  <sipa> that'd be great to have in this discussion
472 2019-07-18T19:19:25  <luke-jr> What problem is this trying to solve?
473 2019-07-18T19:19:27  <kallewoof> sipa: They're not very large, from what I have seen
474 2019-07-18T19:20:06  <MarcoFalke> kallewoof: The number of expiries or the number that are mined after expiry?
475 2019-07-18T19:20:11  <sdaftuar> i think this needs to be thought about from the perspective of older software as well
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477 2019-07-18T19:20:30  <sdaftuar> if you only analyze this from the perspective of the latest version of Bitcoin Core, for instance, you only get a one-sided view
478 2019-07-18T19:20:31  <kallewoof> MarcoFalke: I can fine tune it with some tweakery. Will not be done today, but can do tomorrow
479 2019-07-18T19:20:34  <sipa> but it doesn't have to be large; say if 5 transactions expire per day, but 4.5 of those then re-enter the mempool again, that's evidence that due to rebroadcasting the expiration is effectively ineffective
480 2019-07-18T19:20:43  * sipa likes "effectively ineffective"
481 2019-07-18T19:21:02  <wumpus> hehe
482 2019-07-18T19:21:23  <kallewoof> MarcoFalke: To clarify, I can fine tune it to count txs that do get mined after being purged from mempool at least once.
483 2019-07-18T19:22:12  <sdaftuar> can you also do that from the perspective of an 0.15 node?
484 2019-07-18T19:22:25  <kallewoof> sdaftuar: no
485 2019-07-18T19:22:42  <Raystonn> It ineffectively affects the mempool, which results in not much net effect.
486 2019-07-18T19:22:44  <kallewoof> sdaftuar: well, actually yes, but not without your help.
487 2019-07-18T19:23:01  <sdaftuar> kallewoof: my data is probably insufficient too, unfortunately
488 2019-07-18T19:23:24  <sdaftuar> i am not really sure i guess
489 2019-07-18T19:23:26  <kallewoof> sdaftuar: i thought it recorded everything
490 2019-07-18T19:24:01  <kallewoof> sdaftuar: besides, having the simulation mode alone means all you have to do is fake the time and throw the txs at the right moment and the node should do the expiration on its own
491 2019-07-18T19:24:58  <sdaftuar> i don't know offhand how representative its outbound peers are
492 2019-07-18T19:25:25  <sdaftuar> as an example, i was surprised today to discover that my 0.12 node accepted and then expired some transactions on a particular day in May
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494 2019-07-18T19:25:48  <sdaftuar> it looks like on May 5, it received some very low-fee transactions, which were accepted to the mempool as "priority" transactions
495 2019-07-18T19:26:01  <sdaftuar> i was somewhat shocked that its peers (it only has the 8 outbound) would relay such things to it
496 2019-07-18T19:26:09  <sdaftuar> but i guess it has some peer diversity
497 2019-07-18T19:27:01  <MarcoFalke> sdaftuar: Those are probably valid txs, so I wouldn't call that "shocking"
498 2019-07-18T19:27:40  <sdaftuar> MarcoFalke: i was shocked that the policy diversity on the network was so strong that 8 random peers would include some that aren't enforcing the minrelayfee we have had in place since 0.15
499 2019-07-18T19:27:45  <luke-jr> mempool still had a priority exception in 0.15? O.o
500 2019-07-18T19:27:55  <MarcoFalke> Ok, fine.
501 2019-07-18T19:27:57  <sdaftuar> i think 0.15 was when we first got rid of it
502 2019-07-18T19:28:02  <kallewoof> I looked at our email convo and it looks like I am waiting for you to give me a snapshot. :)
503 2019-07-18T19:28:16  <sdaftuar> kallewoof: oops, thanks for the reminder :)
504 2019-07-18T19:28:18  <MarcoFalke> I think this is too controversial right now, so I will let it sit for a while
505 2019-07-18T19:28:25  <MarcoFalke> and revisit later
506 2019-07-18T19:28:31  <MarcoFalke> Can we chat about 0.18.1?
507 2019-07-18T19:28:43  <jnewbery> MarcoFalke: after some digging, it turns out those transactions were actually from 2017. Someone had dug them up and rebroadcast them
508 2019-07-18T19:29:00  <MarcoFalke> sdaftuar and me had a topic on 0.18.1
509 2019-07-18T19:29:20  <wumpus> #topic 0.18.1
510 2019-07-18T19:29:22  <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: Which reads to me like a reason to remove expiry, but anyway
511 2019-07-18T19:29:23  <Raystonn> A hodler found and opened his wallet again.
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513 2019-07-18T19:30:04  <sdaftuar> i wanted to discuss the impact of the -blocksonly change
514 2019-07-18T19:30:08  <MarcoFalke> (Think how shocking it would be if you see a tx confirm 2 years after you "cancelled" it)
515 2019-07-18T19:30:15  <wumpus> apparently, the maxtxfee fix is harder to backport than expected
516 2019-07-18T19:30:40  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: I will take a look as well, but if it is really too hard I am fine with 0.18.2
517 2019-07-18T19:30:55  <Raystonn> The only way to guarantee a transaction will not confirm once it has broadcast is to spend the relevant UTXOs in another.
518 2019-07-18T19:30:59  <wumpus> oh, looks like promag  did already open a backport PR: #16414
519 2019-07-18T19:31:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16414 | 0.18: wallet: Fix -maxtxfee check by moving it to CWallet::CreateTransaction by promag · Pull Request #16414 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
520 2019-07-18T19:31:05  <wumpus> hadn't seen this
521 2019-07-18T19:31:06  *** scoop has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
522 2019-07-18T19:31:14  <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/41
523 2019-07-18T19:31:17  <wumpus> in any case as this is a non-clean backport it does need review and testing
524 2019-07-18T19:31:34  <wumpus> more than had it been a clean backport, at least…
525 2019-07-18T19:31:39  <MarcoFalke> Three people wrote tests for it
526 2019-07-18T19:32:05  <MarcoFalke> So #16412 will get in as well?
527 2019-07-18T19:32:07  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16412 | net: Make poll in InterruptibleRecv only filter for POLLIN events. by tecnovert · Pull Request #16412 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
528 2019-07-18T19:32:31  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: it should, it's a small and obvious change, that fixes a real problem, and is easy to backport
529 2019-07-18T19:32:47  <MarcoFalke> #15911 doesn't make progess, so it'll have to wait
530 2019-07-18T19:32:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15911 | Use wallet RBF default for walletcreatefundedpsbt by Sjors · Pull Request #15911 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
531 2019-07-18T19:33:06  <wumpus> yes
532 2019-07-18T19:33:25  <wumpus> it's not ready for master yet, let alone backporting, so let's move it to 0.18.2
533 2019-07-18T19:34:29  <wumpus> done
534 2019-07-18T19:35:08  <wumpus> what about #15706?
535 2019-07-18T19:35:10  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15706 | build: Check QT library version by lucayepa · Pull Request #15706 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
536 2019-07-18T19:35:28  <fanquake> I think that wait
537 2019-07-18T19:35:32  <wumpus> it's been waiting for author for a while
538 2019-07-18T19:35:33  <MarcoFalke> agree
539 2019-07-18T19:35:37  <wumpus> even though my comment is trivial
540 2019-07-18T19:35:46  <fanquake> *can
541 2019-07-18T19:35:53  <wumpus> ok, moving
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543 2019-07-18T19:36:20  <wumpus> ok let's go to sdaftuar's topic
544 2019-07-18T19:36:35  <promag> hi
545 2019-07-18T19:36:44  <wumpus> -blocksonly is now a non-hidden option in 0.18.1
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547 2019-07-18T19:36:56  <sdaftuar> so historically, i believe we have not made the -blocksonly option more widely known because we don't have good protections in place for a network where many listening nodes are not relaying transactions, i think
548 2019-07-18T19:37:15  <sdaftuar> now that we're doing it, i think we should make sure there are not unintended side effects
549 2019-07-18T19:37:24  <MarcoFalke> sdaftuar: It is mentioned on bitcoin.org
550 2019-07-18T19:37:36  <MarcoFalke> And has been for years
551 2019-07-18T19:37:46  <sdaftuar> for instance, if we see a rise in -blocksonly listening nodes, then right now we have no protections in place for ensuring connectivity to transaction-relaying peers
552 2019-07-18T19:37:54  <jonasschnelli> fee-estimations are not possible with -blocksonly? right?
553 2019-07-18T19:38:10  <sdaftuar> MarcoFalke: i was not aware!  anyway, perhaps that doesn't matter much, i think we should still be concerned about making our software more robust
554 2019-07-18T19:38:21  <MarcoFalke> agree
555 2019-07-18T19:38:22  <jnewbery> jonasschnelli: correct, but I don't see how that's relevant
556 2019-07-18T19:38:24  <kallewoof> jonasschnelli: fee estimations use blocks only, so it should be possible
557 2019-07-18T19:38:27  <wumpus> I don't personally think unhiding the option in help is going to make that much of a difference, it's been well-known
558 2019-07-18T19:38:33  <warren> maybe an informational tx relaying service bit?
559 2019-07-18T19:38:48  <jnewbery> kallewoof: fee estimation requires a mempool
560 2019-07-18T19:38:50  <sdaftuar> wumpus: fair point, perhaps our choice here is not relevant
561 2019-07-18T19:38:54  <luke-jr> do they dset NODE_NETWORK?
562 2019-07-18T19:38:59  <warren> or informational not-tx-relaying service bit?
563 2019-07-18T19:39:03  <sdaftuar> luke-jr: yes
564 2019-07-18T19:39:18  <kallewoof> jnewbery: weird. i thought it only used blocks. maybe it changed since last i looked at it.
565 2019-07-18T19:39:41  <sdaftuar> i think we could make our p2p code smarter to ensure we have "enough" tx-relaying outbounds, but this work needs to be done, and i think we should prioritize it
566 2019-07-18T19:39:57  <luke-jr> warren: I don't think we gain anything by making it a negative bit
567 2019-07-18T19:40:35  <MarcoFalke> sdaftuar: Could you create a brainstorming issue for that?
568 2019-07-18T19:40:59  <sdaftuar> also, old software has no protections, i don't know what to do about that. presumably we're still a while away from there being a large fraction of listening nodes being blocksonly, so we have some time
569 2019-07-18T19:41:09  <sdaftuar> MarcoFalke: sure
570 2019-07-18T19:41:20  <wumpus> is blocksonly really that popular?
571 2019-07-18T19:41:26  <jonasschnelli> jnewbery: I think its relevant because it reduces the usability of blocksonly&wallet significant. I's already an expert features and thouse who are know the blocksonly feature.
572 2019-07-18T19:41:28  <sdaftuar> wumpus: i forgot to mention why i brought this up
573 2019-07-18T19:41:42  <gleb> I'll try to simulate how "half of nodes turning blocksonly" or something like that might affect tx relay latency or compact blocks relay latency, let me know if you have other metrics in mind
574 2019-07-18T19:41:43  <sdaftuar> i encountered a random blocksonly listening node when testing something recently, and i was surprised
575 2019-07-18T19:42:11  <wumpus> sdaftuar: that's very anocdotal but yeah :)
576 2019-07-18T19:42:13  <MarcoFalke> Could a short-term fix be to disconnect a random outbound if all outbounds are blocksonly?
577 2019-07-18T19:42:15  <sdaftuar> wumpus: so i don't know how common it is now, but when i realized we were unhiding the option and recommending it in our docs, i figured its popularity could rise
578 2019-07-18T19:42:25  <jnewbery> kallewoof: https://bitcointechtalk.com/an-introduction-to-bitcoin-core-fee-estimation-27920880ad0 :)
579 2019-07-18T19:42:34  <warren> I had been running a blocksonly node for years
580 2019-07-18T19:42:34  <wumpus> if you find one by accident then it's probably more common
581 2019-07-18T19:43:02  <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: wouldn't that require a new service flag (or a split of NODE_NETWORK / RELAY)?
582 2019-07-18T19:43:08  <jonasschnelli> (to work reliable)
583 2019-07-18T19:43:30  <warren> not "reliable" but at least you could be told all your peers aren't relaying
584 2019-07-18T19:43:32  <sdaftuar> jonasschnelli: right now, nodes running with -blocksonly achieve that by setting the fRelayTxes=false in the VERSION message
585 2019-07-18T19:43:35  <sdaftuar> so we can detect it on connection
586 2019-07-18T19:44:08  <wumpus> right, you can detect it for connected nodes through the version message
587 2019-07-18T19:44:36  <jonasschnelli> I see. So we could just disconnect fRelayTxes=false up to a certain threshold
588 2019-07-18T19:45:21  <wumpus> for outbound only I hope
589 2019-07-18T19:45:53  <sdaftuar> i wonder if the dnsseeds people run are tuned to look for this?
590 2019-07-18T19:45:58  * sdaftuar stares at all of you
591 2019-07-18T19:46:10  * jonasschnelli checking....
592 2019-07-18T19:46:17  <sipa> i doubt it
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594 2019-07-18T19:46:54  <jonasschnelli> it's not checking the fRelayTxes
595 2019-07-18T19:47:27  <sdaftuar> matt seems skeptical this is a good idea, anyway i just wanted bring up the topic so others can think about it
596 2019-07-18T19:47:35  <wumpus> I'm not sure it should filter out all nodes that are blocksonly
597 2019-07-18T19:47:51  <cfields> sdaftuar: why would it? Seeds are primarily hit during IBD.
598 2019-07-18T19:48:23  <sdaftuar> cfields: i think in practice we hit the seeds a lot now, actually, but i think that's also a bug
599 2019-07-18T19:48:33  <wumpus> the main task of the P2P network is relaying blocks, after all, sure there need to be nodes that relay transactions, but I think it's a bad idea to just ignore nodes that don't
600 2019-07-18T19:48:45  <wumpus> cfields: right
601 2019-07-18T19:49:00  <sdaftuar> wumpus: yeah i think we can tolerate some level of blocksonly peers, but not all of our outbounds
602 2019-07-18T19:49:01  <wumpus> for IBD it definitely doesn't matter
603 2019-07-18T19:49:04  <sdaftuar> i'm not sure where to draw the line
604 2019-07-18T19:49:06  <wumpus> sdaftuar: agreed
605 2019-07-18T19:49:27  <wumpus> (it ignores transactions during IBD, after all)
606 2019-07-18T19:50:05  <cfields> sdaftuar: agree that it's something that should be handled, though.
607 2019-07-18T19:50:12  <MarcoFalke> Heh, so it would be helpful to connect to blocksonly in IBD
608 2019-07-18T19:50:12  <cfields> s/handled/tolerated/
609 2019-07-18T19:50:58  <kallewoof> 50/50 for tx relaying nodes, anything-goes for blocksonly nodes?
610 2019-07-18T19:51:18  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: well, except some people use blocksonly as a kind of "super low bandwidth mode" :P
611 2019-07-18T19:51:38  <wumpus> well if you enable pruning too...
612 2019-07-18T19:51:45  <warren> perhaps many using blocksonly would be happy with erlay
613 2019-07-18T19:51:57  <MarcoFalke> I hope they don't accept incoming then
614 2019-07-18T19:52:32  <warren> hope isn't a defense
615 2019-07-18T19:52:49  <MarcoFalke> At least o
616 2019-07-18T19:53:31  <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/reduce-traffic.md
617 2019-07-18T19:53:47  <MarcoFalke> Listen is mentioned as second step, blocksonly as 4th
618 2019-07-18T19:54:20  * MarcoFalke getting tea ...
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620 2019-07-18T19:54:47  <warren> I dunno about other people but I had blocksonly=1 on one node listening even before it was in a stable release.
621 2019-07-18T19:55:11  <gleb> warren: You should tell sdaftuar your ip, perhaps you were the node he connected to :)
622 2019-07-18T19:55:30  <warren> I'd be surprised if I was the only
623 2019-07-18T19:56:13  * sdaftuar is done with this topic if we want to move on
624 2019-07-18T19:56:52  <MarcoFalke> #action create brainstorming issue to not forget about it
625 2019-07-18T19:56:52  <tryphe> looking for a relabel, and some brainstorming around file handle counts, if possible: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16003 :)
626 2019-07-18T19:57:36  <fanquake> Don’t think there are any more proposed topics.
627 2019-07-18T19:57:45  <fanquake> End meeting?
628 2019-07-18T19:58:00  <MarcoFalke> tryphe: What label do you want?
629 2019-07-18T19:58:02  <wumpus> #endmeeting
630 2019-07-18T19:58:02  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Jul 18 19:58:02 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
631 2019-07-18T19:58:02  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-18-19.00.html
632 2019-07-18T19:58:02  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-18-19.00.txt
633 2019-07-18T19:58:02  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-18-19.00.log.html
634 2019-07-18T19:59:01  <sdaftuar> btw if anyone is interested, i think i've made a lot of progress on refactoring our code to support package relay.  Review welcome! #16400 / #16401
635 2019-07-18T19:59:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16400 | [refactor] Rewrite AcceptToMemoryPoolWorker() using smaller parts by sdaftuar · Pull Request #16400 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
636 2019-07-18T19:59:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16401 | Package relay by sdaftuar · Pull Request #16401 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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638 2019-07-18T19:59:33  <tryphe> MarcoFalke, hmm, not sure. probably bug/refactoring/resource usage/brainstorming
639 2019-07-18T20:00:25  <kallewoof> luke-jr: if you need anything from me on https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/803 let me know. I believe I answered your statement in https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/803#discussion_r304880606
640 2019-07-18T20:01:03  <aj> MarcoFalke: ping re: #16328 btw?
641 2019-07-18T20:01:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16328 | rpc: Tidy up reporting of buried and ongoing softforks by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #16328 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
642 2019-07-18T20:01:09  <tryphe> MarcoFalke, ty :)
643 2019-07-18T20:01:46  <MarcoFalke> aj: I lost interest in that at least temporarily
644 2019-07-18T20:02:12  <achow101> is there a wallet meeting tomorrow?
645 2019-07-18T20:02:57  *** luc__ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
646 2019-07-18T20:06:58  <aj> MarcoFalke: aww. i hope it rekindles soon then :)
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653 2019-07-18T20:32:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli opened pull request #16420: QA: Fix race condition in wallet_encryption test (master...2019/07/wallet_enc_test_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16420
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658 2019-07-18T20:33:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #16415: Get rid of PendingWalletTx class (master...pr/nopend) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16415
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661 2019-07-18T20:34:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #16415: Get rid of PendingWalletTx class (master...pr/nopend) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16415
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674 2019-07-18T21:19:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheBlueMatt opened pull request #16421: Conservatively accept RBF bumps bumping one tx at the package limits (master...2019-07-lightning-policy-bump) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16421
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677 2019-07-18T21:20:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheBlueMatt closed pull request #16323:  Call ProcessNewBlock() asynchronously (master...2019-07-background-pnb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16323
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680 2019-07-18T21:20:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheBlueMatt closed pull request #16324: Get cs_main out of the critical path in ProcessMessages (master...2019-07-peerstate-initial-moves) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16324
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