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402019-08-08T02:37:28 <cfields> gitian builders: detached sigs for v0.18.1 are up.
412019-08-08T02:37:36 <fanquake> ð
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432019-08-08T02:39:11 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kallewoof opened pull request #16566: util: refactor upper/lowercase functions (master...2019-08-casefuns-refactor) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16566
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472019-08-08T02:48:02 <fanquake> Pushed up some signed sigs: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/pull/1065
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542019-08-08T03:00:17 <ariard> cfields: hey if you are around and have time, could you have a look on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16503 :) ? People are uncertain on it
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792019-08-08T04:16:40 <fanquake> promag: I've put together a AppleScript that spams wallet loads and unloads in the GUI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16307#issuecomment-519355809
802019-08-08T04:16:48 <fanquake> You might be able to use that to recreate the issue.
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1112019-08-08T06:54:50 <jonasschnelli> promag: Re #16562: do you mean reallocation because of the vector::insert at the beginning? Yeah. I need to look for a better way.
1122019-08-08T06:54:52 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16562 | Refactor message transport packaging by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #16562 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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1142019-08-08T06:55:17 <jonasschnelli> heh
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1262019-08-08T08:38:51 <setpill> what is the recommended way to cleanly shut down bitcoind running in the background?
1272019-08-08T08:39:15 <setpill> seems like sending sigterm does an unclean shutdown
1282019-08-08T08:40:15 <belcher> setpill this is a question more for #bitcoin than here, but try running `bitcoin-cli stop`
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1302019-08-08T08:40:53 <setpill> belcher: it's related to the default systemd service file of bitcoin core not shutting it down cleanly when using `systemctl stop bitcoind.service`
1312019-08-08T08:43:10 <setpill> hm it might also be a timeout issue
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1342019-08-08T08:44:26 <setpill> ie. systemd going for the sigkill before the db has been flushed to disk
1352019-08-08T08:55:58 <jonasschnelli> Unfortunate that our current ChaCha20Poly1305@Bitcoin implementation works on a single buffer.
1362019-08-08T08:56:59 <jonasschnelli> Makes it harder to avoid vector::insert's / possible relocations
1372019-08-08T08:58:30 <jonasschnelli> Ideally the AEAD would work on three buffers, 1| the "header" (3 byte packet length a.k.a. AD + command), 2| the message payload, 3| the 16byte MAC tag
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1412019-08-08T09:07:18 <provoostenator> setpill: that would be useful to know; I imagine that can cause serious problems for low end devices, e.g. some raspebbery pi that needs to reboot after a system update
1422019-08-08T09:08:46 <provoostenator> I use more or less the default systemd example one of my own machines and haven't had issues with unclean shutdowns that I know, but I never stress tested that.
1432019-08-08T09:15:46 <setpill> provoostenator: it depends on how big your dbcache is and how much syncing you have done since the last time bitcoind was started
1442019-08-08T09:16:36 <setpill> Related to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11600
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1462019-08-08T09:17:50 <setpill> I just tried `bitcoin-cli stop` (rather than `systemctl stop bitcoind.service`) and it took almost 9 minutes.
1472019-08-08T09:18:10 <setpill> But that's with a node that had synced non-stop from ~block 500000
1482019-08-08T09:18:17 <setpill> And with a 15GB dbcache
1492019-08-08T09:22:22 <setpill> I think setting `TimeoutStopSec=infinity` in the bitcoind.service file should fix it properly (though you'll want to be cognizant that shutdown of your device might take ages)
1502019-08-08T09:22:39 <setpill> Will make a PR
1512019-08-08T09:23:02 <provoostenator> That seems reasonable at first glance, but I'm no systemd expert. I assume reboot will run out of patience?
1522019-08-08T09:23:35 <setpill> Not sure about that, good question.
1532019-08-08T09:24:09 <provoostenator> Is it possible to "fail" the stop, instead waiting forever?
1542019-08-08T09:24:27 <setpill> Well that's what it does now, I guess.
1552019-08-08T09:24:31 <provoostenator> At least it makes sense to ask for the user to intervene if the node doesn't gracefully stop.
1562019-08-08T09:24:34 <setpill> Simply sigkills.
1572019-08-08T09:24:48 <setpill> It's possible to disable the sigkill at end of timeout.
1582019-08-08T09:25:02 <setpill> But imho that's worse because it doesn't properly restart the service.
1592019-08-08T09:25:16 <provoostenator> No that's not what I mean. I mean "systemctl stop bitcoind" could return an error without doing sigkill, basically "I can't stop this process"
1602019-08-08T09:25:32 <setpill> Ie. `systemctl restart bitcoind.service` is a `stop` followed by a `start`
1612019-08-08T09:25:48 <setpill> If the `stop` timeouts without successfully stopping the service, it will not perform the `start`
1622019-08-08T09:26:39 <setpill> Which might be worse than the restart happening 10 minutes later than you'd expect, but still as soon as possible.
1632019-08-08T09:27:03 <provoostenator> From the docs: "If a service of Type=notify sends "EXTEND_TIMEOUT_USEC=â¦", this may cause the stop time to be extended"
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1652019-08-08T09:28:43 <wumpus> SIGTERM and SIGHUP do a clean shutdown
1662019-08-08T09:28:59 <wumpus> @setpill
1672019-08-08T09:30:08 <setpill> wumpus: thanks for the confirmation :)
1682019-08-08T09:30:11 <wumpus> sorry, SIGTERM and SIGINT
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1702019-08-08T09:31:11 <wumpus> SIGHUP reopens the debug.log https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/init.cpp#L903
1712019-08-08T09:32:00 <setpill> provoostenator: that might *also* be an option yes. I will open an issue about this so these points can be recorded for later reference
1722019-08-08T09:32:42 <provoostenator> If we wanted to switching from type "forking" to type "notify" that involves changes in the code to use sd_notify. Systemd docs seem to prefer that.
1732019-08-08T09:32:45 <setpill> Just feels conceptually "wrong" to let the shutdown timeout when it's still hard at work and has not frozen at all.
1742019-08-08T09:34:08 <setpill> Ah, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13736 related
1752019-08-08T09:35:11 <provoostenator> setpill: that sounds like the right ticket to update
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2072019-08-08T11:48:41 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] setpill opened pull request #16569: Disable systemd stop timeout (master...fix-systemd-shutdown) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16569
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2122019-08-08T12:05:37 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] davereikher opened pull request #16570: Make descriptor tests deterministic (master...make_descriptor_tests_deterministic) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16570
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2282019-08-08T14:00:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #16571: gui: Make Bitcoin Core logo pure black (master...1908-guiIcoPureBlack) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16571
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2322019-08-08T14:03:38 <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic Who wants to volunteer as co-maintainer of the Bitcoin Core flatpak?
2332019-08-08T14:06:58 <luke-jr> I tried to make a flatpak but couldn't get it to work :/
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2452019-08-08T14:58:09 <elichai2> I added the control block to the `SignatureData` struct, and I'm filling it in `ProduceSignature`(right now it's greedy and takes the first script that it can sign for) but for the signing support itself i'll wait for achow101's native descriptors PR :) until then i'll rebase my psbt stuff to use the new descriptor
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2842019-08-08T17:00:55 <dongcarl> Wondering anyone had thoughts on a generic feature-signaling message for non-monotonic features that don't fit in the protocol version model
2852019-08-08T17:01:16 *** luke-jr has quit IRC
2862019-08-08T17:01:21 <dongcarl> Has there been prior art?
2872019-08-08T17:02:12 *** luke-jr has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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2892019-08-08T17:04:18 <sipa> BIP 36 perhaps
2902019-08-08T17:04:20 <sipa> long ago
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2922019-08-08T17:05:43 <dongcarl> Was there any reason why this wasn't adopted? Or just no one implemented?
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3002019-08-08T17:17:18 <achow101> github has their own CI now https://github.com/features/actions?utm_campaign=1565242028&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1565242028
3012019-08-08T17:17:23 <achow101> maybe it will be better than travis?
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3092019-08-08T17:24:43 <dongcarl> #proposedmeetingtopic [maybe short] generic feature-signaling message for non-monotonic features that don't fit in the protocol version model (like BIP 36)
3102019-08-08T17:25:13 *** luke-jr has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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3122019-08-08T17:25:22 <sipa> FWIW, i think the "sendX" type negotiation works pretty well
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3182019-08-08T17:33:51 <dongcarl> sipa: works pretty well = overhead + the extra message types not that big of a deal?
3192019-08-08T17:33:56 *** luke-jr has quit IRC
3202019-08-08T17:34:17 <sipa> they're sent exactly once
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3222019-08-08T17:34:45 *** pinheadmz has quit IRC
3232019-08-08T17:36:43 <dongcarl> true... okay perhaps this isn't that big of a problem.
3242019-08-08T17:37:32 * dongcarl wishes there were a #cancelproposedmeetingtopic
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3462019-08-08T18:51:52 <MarcoFalke> [13:17] <achow101> github has their own CI now https://github.com/features/actions?utm_campaign=1565242028&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1565242028
3472019-08-08T18:51:55 <MarcoFalke> Thanks
3482019-08-08T18:52:00 <MarcoFalke> :eyes:
3492019-08-08T18:54:18 <sipa> i'd be concerned about centralizing more of our workflow around github, if we'd move from travis to the built-in CI...
3502019-08-08T18:54:58 <MarcoFalke> travis only works with GitHub, so I fail to see how it would make anything worse
3512019-08-08T18:55:37 <jonasschnelli> I'm also concerned to add more crucial stuff around github
3522019-08-08T18:55:56 <MarcoFalke> If it is the same thing with the only difference that we don't have to manually re-run every build, I'd consider it a huge win
3532019-08-08T18:56:16 <jonasschnelli> Well,.. don't forget the https://bitcoinbuilds.org/ option. :)
3542019-08-08T18:56:59 <jonasschnelli> But I agree that travis, with github only is not much of a difference
3552019-08-08T18:57:02 <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: It needs some sort of integration with GitHub
3562019-08-08T18:57:13 <jonasschnelli> BTW: semaphore2 has now public PR build support
3572019-08-08T18:57:31 <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: I can integrate it with GitHub's "checks" API.
3582019-08-08T18:57:43 <jonasschnelli> Done in 1-2 days...
3592019-08-08T18:57:59 <jonasschnelli> But I first want to prove that my CI can run for 2-3 month without issues
3602019-08-08T18:58:07 <sipa> i think a self-hosted CI is over time going to be a better solution anyway
3612019-08-08T18:58:09 <jonasschnelli> Then a next integration step could be done
3622019-08-08T18:58:20 *** real_or_random has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3632019-08-08T18:58:20 <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: Also, it needs to be open to the public (forked repos)
3642019-08-08T18:58:30 <MarcoFalke> And offer free minutes for open source
3652019-08-08T18:58:40 <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: it won't
3662019-08-08T18:58:57 <jonasschnelli> The CI will only build PRs and master branch (eventually older branches as well at some point)
3672019-08-08T18:59:00 <achow101> MarcoFalke: so long as a config file that can be used elsewhere is present, I don't see a problem with also using bitcoinbuilds.org
3682019-08-08T18:59:34 <achow101> Why not just have both?
3692019-08-08T18:59:36 <MarcoFalke> How would I run all the ci settings when my workstation is a laptop? Create a pull request against core?
3702019-08-08T19:00:13 <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: the bitcoinbuilds.org CI is our last check. How developers check their work is their thing
3712019-08-08T19:00:21 <jonasschnelli> (prior to PR)
3722019-08-08T19:00:50 <achow101> jonasschnelli: it's nice to be able to run the CI checks on your own branch before a PR
3732019-08-08T19:00:56 <sipa> meeting?
3742019-08-08T19:00:57 <MarcoFalke> It takes a long time to compile and run the tests with all possible sanitizer options and configure options
3752019-08-08T19:01:03 <wumpus> #startmeeting
3762019-08-08T19:01:03 <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 8 19:01:03 2019 UTC. The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
3772019-08-08T19:01:03 <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
3782019-08-08T19:01:07 <moneyball> hi
3792019-08-08T19:01:08 <kanzure> hi
3802019-08-08T19:01:09 <jnewbery> hi
3812019-08-08T19:01:10 <jonasschnelli> hi
3822019-08-08T19:01:10 <MarcoFalke> hi
3832019-08-08T19:01:13 <achow101> hi
3842019-08-08T19:01:13 <ariard> hi
3852019-08-08T19:01:15 <sipa> hi
3862019-08-08T19:01:16 <phantomcircuit> hi
3872019-08-08T19:01:33 <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral
3882019-08-08T19:01:40 <wumpus> hi
3892019-08-08T19:01:42 <fanquake> Hi
3902019-08-08T19:01:46 <real_or_random> hi
3912019-08-08T19:01:58 <meshcollider> hi
3922019-08-08T19:02:04 <MarcoFalke> I'd rather stick with some GitHub specific stuff that works than to ditch GitHub specific stuff and make running the tests harder for developers
3932019-08-08T19:02:13 <wumpus> any last-minute proposed topics?
3942019-08-08T19:02:22 <aj> hey
3952019-08-08T19:02:25 <moneyball> https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
3962019-08-08T19:02:26 <wumpus> there's one by MarcoFalke: Who wants to volunteer as co-maintainer of the Bitcoin Core flatpak
3972019-08-08T19:02:29 <dongcarl> wumpus: could you remove my proposed?
3982019-08-08T19:02:47 <wumpus> dongcarl: moneyball already did
3992019-08-08T19:02:50 <MarcoFalke> We can always keep the bitcoin-builds as a backup fallback ci
4002019-08-08T19:02:53 <phantomcircuit> MarcoFalke, it really depends on how powerful their build servers are, for a relatively small price a very powerful server could be acquired and used for builds
4012019-08-08T19:03:02 <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic GitHub ci
4022019-08-08T19:03:42 <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
4032019-08-08T19:03:44 <MarcoFalke> phantomcircuit: Not every developer has a credit card, even if they can afford the price of the ci
4042019-08-08T19:03:46 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
4052019-08-08T19:03:56 <achow101> I don't see why we can't just use both. would it not be possible to make bitcoinbuilds just read the same config file as github's?
4062019-08-08T19:04:02 <wumpus> 6 blockers, 6 chasing concept ACKs
4072019-08-08T19:04:08 <wumpus> why are we talking about credit cards ?
4082019-08-08T19:04:08 <MarcoFalke> Agree with achow101
4092019-08-08T19:04:08 <jonasschnelli> (lets take the CI discussion to #bitcoin-builds plz)
4102019-08-08T19:04:21 <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Sorry, will shut up now about ci
4112019-08-08T19:04:48 <wumpus> I think the BIP9 bury PR is very near merge-ready
4122019-08-08T19:04:52 <wumpus> #16060
4132019-08-08T19:04:56 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16060 | Bury bip9 deployments by jnewbery · Pull Request #16060 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4142019-08-08T19:05:18 <wumpus> anything to add/remove/replace from the project?
4152019-08-08T19:05:22 <MarcoFalke> It is still in the process of review and some fixups keep getting found
4162019-08-08T19:05:40 <MarcoFalke> (re 16060)
4172019-08-08T19:05:50 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: mostly small nits on nits about RPC behavior, from what I've seen
4182019-08-08T19:05:55 <aj> #8994 can be removed from chasing concept ack?
4192019-08-08T19:05:58 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8994 | Testchains: Introduce custom chain whose constructor... by jtimon · Pull Request #8994 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4202019-08-08T19:06:10 <phantomcircuit> MarcoFalke, no what im saying is that we could collectively buy a server that could do the builds, in general things where you're buying "packaged" cpu time from third parties end up being very expensive
4212019-08-08T19:06:17 <jnewbery> wumpus: there was at least a bug in the test case which I'm fixing now
4222019-08-08T19:06:25 <jnewbery> I would appreciate rereview after I push that fix
4232019-08-08T19:06:47 <wumpus> jnewbery: sure
4242019-08-08T19:07:02 <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: Will take another look in the next couple of days
4252019-08-08T19:07:35 <MarcoFalke> Also, I plan to review sdaftuar's pr (it has been on my list for a while, but I haven't gotten to it yet)
4262019-08-08T19:08:05 <wumpus> thanks
4272019-08-08T19:08:40 <fanquake> wumpus: first topic?
4282019-08-08T19:08:53 <wumpus> we're done with high priority for review?
4292019-08-08T19:09:10 * jonasschnelli waves at #16202 (quick review, on the path to p2p encryption)
4302019-08-08T19:09:12 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16202 | Refactor network message deserialization by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #16202 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4312019-08-08T19:10:02 <wumpus> #topic Who wants to volunteer as co-maintainer of the Bitcoin Core flatpak (MarcoFalke)
4322019-08-08T19:10:14 <achow101> who currently maintains it?
4332019-08-08T19:10:21 <jonasschnelli> can someone explain flatpak?
4342019-08-08T19:10:26 <MarcoFalke> It isn't created yet
4352019-08-08T19:10:36 <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: It is like a snap package
4362019-08-08T19:10:42 <wumpus> it's a distribution agnostic binary package distribution format
4372019-08-08T19:10:44 <MarcoFalke> Different name, though
4382019-08-08T19:10:44 <wumpus> for linux
4392019-08-08T19:11:45 <jonasschnelli> Okay. Sounds acceptable.
4402019-08-08T19:11:47 <wumpus> it's especially good for GUI applications, it has some features like sandboxing and desktop UI integration which simply dropping static binaries has not
4412019-08-08T19:12:21 <MarcoFalke> I will be a repository hosted under the flatpak org, so not in our org. Which is why I am asking for co-maintainers.
4422019-08-08T19:12:24 <wumpus> see #16550
4432019-08-08T19:12:25 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16550 | Distribute via flatpak · Issue #16550 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4442019-08-08T19:12:54 <wumpus> i'd love to help but can't promise to have any time and motivation for any extra work at the moment, sorry
4452019-08-08T19:13:06 <MarcoFalke> Sure. Maybe jonasschnelli?
4462019-08-08T19:13:10 <MarcoFalke> Or fanquake?
4472019-08-08T19:13:20 <sipa> it seems flatpak is also usable independent of a central repo
4482019-08-08T19:13:34 <sipa> while snap really needs canonical's infrastructure?
4492019-08-08T19:13:48 <MarcoFalke> jup, snap needs the Ubuntu infrastructure
4502019-08-08T19:13:55 <fanquake> MarcoFalke: whatâs required to maintain? Just uploading releases and managing issues?
4512019-08-08T19:14:04 <sipa> flatpak has flathub, but it's not required
4522019-08-08T19:14:17 <MarcoFalke> fanquake: Only requirement is that you are a less agressive jaywalker
4532019-08-08T19:14:23 <sipa> (just reading and learning)
4542019-08-08T19:14:28 <fanquake> ð
4552019-08-08T19:14:40 <jonasschnelli> Sorry... already at my timelimit
4562019-08-08T19:14:42 <sipa> MarcoFalke: one must know how to spell aggressive correctly, however
4572019-08-08T19:15:09 <MarcoFalke> right
4582019-08-08T19:15:14 <fanquake> Canât promise anything ðââï¸
4592019-08-08T19:15:19 <MarcoFalke> Is there an autocorrect for IRC?
4602019-08-08T19:16:15 <MarcoFalke> fanquake: Cool, I'll sign you up.
4612019-08-08T19:16:28 <wumpus> hehe,switch to matrix, it has message editing
4622019-08-08T19:17:02 <fanquake> MarcoFalke: heh, I was worried that just by asking a question that would happen
4632019-08-08T19:17:44 <fanquake> wumpus: Next topic then?
4642019-08-08T19:18:05 <wumpus> #topic GitHub ci (MarcoFalke)
4652019-08-08T19:18:22 <MarcoFalke> fanquake: I expect it will look like this: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/packaging/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3AMarcoFalke+is%3Aclosed
4662019-08-08T19:18:31 <MarcoFalke> I.e. bump version every 3 months
4672019-08-08T19:18:39 <MarcoFalke> So nothing too fancy
4682019-08-08T19:18:51 <MarcoFalke> ok, next topic
4692019-08-08T19:18:53 <fanquake> MarcoFalke: ok ð
4702019-08-08T19:19:12 *** fox2p_ has quit IRC
4712019-08-08T19:19:26 <MarcoFalke> I think everyone knows by now that travis isn't the most stable ci solution
4722019-08-08T19:19:33 <wumpus> PSA: first deadline (soft translation string freeze) for 0.19.0 is in less than a month, 2019-09-01
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4742019-08-08T19:20:14 <MarcoFalke> So in exploring alternatives, the GitHub ci might be a good medium-term replacement
4752019-08-08T19:20:14 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: definitely, it's not a good fit for how we're using it at least
4762019-08-08T19:20:41 <moneyball> MarcoFalke: is the GitHub CI public info?
4772019-08-08T19:20:47 <MarcoFalke> Both, travis and the GitHub ci, will be GitHub-centered. That should be fine, imo.
4782019-08-08T19:20:49 <achow101> https://github.com/features/actions
4792019-08-08T19:20:53 <moneyball> ah, i see it is
4802019-08-08T19:20:56 <achow101> they just announced it today, it's in beta
4812019-08-08T19:20:57 <wumpus> I've never heard of github ci
4822019-08-08T19:20:57 <MarcoFalke> moneyball: Yes, according to achow101
4832019-08-08T19:21:12 <moneyball> when Pieter, Cory, Matt, and I visited GitHub, they demo'd this
4842019-08-08T19:21:23 <wumpus> but if it can take over what travis does and does it beter, without too much work from our side, that'd be very useful
4852019-08-08T19:21:48 <moneyball> cfields has strong views on this
4862019-08-08T19:21:50 <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Jup, agree
4872019-08-08T19:22:06 <achow101> moneyball: any opinions about it from the demo you saw?
4882019-08-08T19:22:07 <MarcoFalke> moneyball: cfields: Elaborate, pls
4892019-08-08T19:22:08 <wumpus> cfields can't be here today afaik
4902019-08-08T19:22:19 <jnewbery> moneyball: can you summarise the strong feelings?
4912019-08-08T19:22:23 <fanquake> Also agree.
4922019-08-08T19:22:39 <achow101> strong feelings in a good or bad way?
4932019-08-08T19:22:50 <sipa> bad.
4942019-08-08T19:22:59 <moneyball> Concerns about increasing dependence on GitHub/Microsoft
4952019-08-08T19:23:06 <jonasschnelli> Yes
4962019-08-08T19:23:47 <MarcoFalke> Again, I don't think it gets worse. Also, we can use jonasschnelli's ci as a fallback (running in the background 24/7)
4972019-08-08T19:23:51 <fanquake> jonasschnelli: do you want to update on the state of your CI? As an alternative?
4982019-08-08T19:23:56 <moneyball> Which I agree is a valid point. My response was "What kind of productivity improvement over Travis would we need to see to want to move in that direction?" but I didn't really get a good answer. So, I'd pose that question here.
4992019-08-08T19:23:56 <jonasschnelli> Update on the self hosted custom open source CI (bitcoinbuilds.org): it does now (since a week) successfully builds all PRs, mostly quicker than travis (though less envs). Integration with Github is doable and easy. But first lets see how it runs for at least 2 months.
5002019-08-08T19:24:21 <jonasschnelli> Plan is to use the Github checks API when we think it has been proven to be reliable (2 month)
5012019-08-08T19:24:29 <wumpus> moneyball: "no false positives"
5022019-08-08T19:24:34 <moneyball> Another point made was concern that GitHub 3rd party API might suffer / degrade over time making 3rd party tools like Travis even worse (relative to GitHub CI)
5032019-08-08T19:24:42 <wumpus> (or at least, neglible amount of, the problem with travis is false positives)
5042019-08-08T19:24:53 <sipa> one point is that it seems to provide far more entry points than a normal CI does (it does much more automation of workflows, not just CI), and starting to depend on those seems like it would make it harder to move away (if ever needed)
5052019-08-08T19:25:10 <jonasschnelli> good point
5062019-08-08T19:25:17 <MarcoFalke> Yeah, good point.
5072019-08-08T19:25:26 <wumpus> I wouldn't want to rely on it for automation of workflows
5082019-08-08T19:25:33 <fanquake> Heh. Weâve already got plenty of GH âturned offâ as well.
5092019-08-08T19:25:40 <moneyball> I'm not sure if their announcement today means anyway can experiment with it not, but if not, then we have an invitation to experiment with it, if anyone is interested.
5102019-08-08T19:25:40 <wumpus> just taking over what travis does now
5112019-08-08T19:25:41 <jonasschnelli> They tend to mix auto-fix (code format correction and stuff) with CI which is indeed not only good
5122019-08-08T19:25:46 <sipa> as long as it's a drop-in replacement of one CI for another, i agree there isn't much impact
5132019-08-08T19:25:47 <MarcoFalke> We should only use it for the purpose of ci builds
5142019-08-08T19:25:54 <wumpus> auto-fix ? no way
5152019-08-08T19:26:08 <MarcoFalke> " Youâre in the queue for the betaâweâll let you know as soon as you have access. "
5162019-08-08T19:26:12 <wumpus> that sounds realllllly scary
5172019-08-08T19:26:14 <wumpus> damn
5182019-08-08T19:26:37 <sipa> that's just an example of something you can configure
5192019-08-08T19:26:43 <sipa> not a default thing
5202019-08-08T19:26:47 <MarcoFalke> yes, all of the other stuff is just scary
5212019-08-08T19:26:49 <wumpus> so now you CI doesn't only have false positives, it can introduce bugs and backdoors into your code !
5222019-08-08T19:26:51 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: https://developer.github.com/apps/quickstart-guides/creating-ci-tests-with-the-checks-api/#step-26-automatically-fixing-rubocop-errors
5232019-08-08T19:27:34 <MarcoFalke> Like self-driving cars for software development
5242019-08-08T19:27:41 <wumpus> yea, lt's disable it, as fanquake says we have plenty of gh features disabled, what is one more ⦠though it's something to watch
5252019-08-08T19:27:43 <wumpus> yes, exactly
5262019-08-08T19:28:17 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: we've "tested" other CIs live - no reason not to do it with our own
5272019-08-08T19:29:03 <fanquake> So is the resolution here to just wait until we can look at GH CI properly? Maybe test it in production alongside Travis?
5282019-08-08T19:29:15 <wumpus> that sounds good to me
5292019-08-08T19:29:22 <jonasschnelli> ack
5302019-08-08T19:29:24 <achow101> ack
5312019-08-08T19:29:25 <luke-jr> Does GH CI work with non-GH repos?
5322019-08-08T19:29:30 <MarcoFalke> no
5332019-08-08T19:29:38 <achow101> luke-jr: i highly doubt it
5342019-08-08T19:29:38 <wumpus> luke-jr: only if you mirror them to github, I guess
5352019-08-08T19:29:39 <sipa> luke-jr: embrace, extend, ...
5362019-08-08T19:29:43 <luke-jr> I'm with cfields on that thenâ¦
5372019-08-08T19:29:56 <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Does travis work with non-GH repos?
5382019-08-08T19:30:08 <luke-jr> I mean, if it's the only thing working, fine temporarily I guess, but I'd rather get away from GH dependency, not more entrenched
5392019-08-08T19:30:17 <wumpus> luke-jr: definitely agree on that
5402019-08-08T19:30:18 <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: not sure
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5422019-08-08T19:30:31 <achow101> I really thing we should just do both GH CI and bitcoinbuilds and just have them use the same config file
5432019-08-08T19:30:41 <jonasschnelli> It looks like GitHub is taking over Git the same way gmail took over email... be aware
5442019-08-08T19:30:42 <moneyball> does anyone want to test the GitHub CI now? let me know and I will introduce
5452019-08-08T19:30:44 <luke-jr> achow101: +1
5462019-08-08T19:30:52 <luke-jr> I wonder how long until there's some kind of standard for CIs
5472019-08-08T19:30:56 <jonasschnelli> Nice centralized development functionality comes at a price
5482019-08-08T19:31:01 <achow101> so we aren't entirely dependent on Github, but for individual developers, they can still run CI checks
5492019-08-08T19:31:08 <sipa> achow101: i like that idea; it also forces us to keep the configuration to be compatible with non-GH features
5502019-08-08T19:31:13 <wumpus> luke-jr: seems no, travis cannot use anything else than github, unless you have the enterprise version
5512019-08-08T19:31:17 <luke-jr> moneyball: does it require permission to use?
5522019-08-08T19:31:20 <aj> jonasschnelli: could test in production, but have it report "success" or "neutral" rather than "success" or "failure" maybe?
5532019-08-08T19:31:25 <sipa> luke-jr: during the beta, yes
5542019-08-08T19:31:37 <luke-jr> achow101: "make cichecks" would be nice :D
5552019-08-08T19:31:56 <achow101> luke-jr: can't run on all of the platforms on one machine
5562019-08-08T19:32:06 <luke-jr> achow101: why not? :\
5572019-08-08T19:32:11 <dongcarl> qemu
5582019-08-08T19:32:17 <jonasschnelli> aj: Yes. That would make sense.
5592019-08-08T19:33:16 <dongcarl> so, perhaps _someone_ should try out the GitHub CI, and see if it's better than Travis, as a stop gap
5602019-08-08T19:33:20 <wumpus> dongcarl: from my testing a few years ago, qemu-user works pretty well for the tests, at least if you stick to platforms with the same endianness
5612019-08-08T19:33:41 <luke-jr> it sounds like bitcoinbuilds is further along than GitHub CI?
5622019-08-08T19:33:53 <MarcoFalke> Could someone share a writeup of how to run the functional tests in qemu, pls?
5632019-08-08T19:34:15 <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: write a shell script that runs the bitcoind bin, and export BITCOIND=/path/to/script
5642019-08-08T19:34:26 <achow101> moneyball: you said we have an invitation to experiment with github CI?
5652019-08-08T19:34:51 <moneyball> Yes
5662019-08-08T19:34:52 <achow101> can we skip the queue?
5672019-08-08T19:35:06 <moneyball> Presumably since they offered to let us use it a month ago
5682019-08-08T19:35:30 <dongcarl> Is there a zero-effort Travis yml -> GH CI transition?
5692019-08-08T19:35:37 <sipa> i doubt that
5702019-08-08T19:35:40 <MarcoFalke> dongcarl: no
5712019-08-08T19:35:44 <dongcarl> :-/
5722019-08-08T19:36:03 <dongcarl> Why not stick to Travis till bitcoinbuilds is ready?
5732019-08-08T19:36:16 <MarcoFalke> But the travis.yml mostly specifies the env, so it shouldn't be too hard either
5742019-08-08T19:36:41 <achow101> dongcarl: because travis false positives too much
5752019-08-08T19:36:41 <luke-jr> yeah, I imagine at least some of the scripts should be portable
5762019-08-08T19:36:51 <MarcoFalke> I'd still like to run a ci with free minutes along of bitcoinbuilds
5772019-08-08T19:37:00 <jonasschnelli> Me 2
5782019-08-08T19:37:16 <luke-jr> "free minutes along of bitcoinbuilds"?
5792019-08-08T19:37:20 <achow101> moneyball: can you ask them let some of us into the beta so we can try it out on our own repos first?
5802019-08-08T19:37:22 <MarcoFalke> fee cpu time
5812019-08-08T19:37:24 <jonasschnelli> I think centralized development tools are fine as long as there is an alternative running in parallel
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5832019-08-08T19:37:31 <MarcoFalke> *free
5842019-08-08T19:37:33 <luke-jr> ah
5852019-08-08T19:37:41 <luke-jr> I have lots of free ppc64le CPU time I think
5862019-08-08T19:37:49 <jonasschnelli> The problem is lock-in, suddenly they charge for it or make it incompatible with your needs, ...and you'r screwed
5872019-08-08T19:37:50 <dongcarl> jonasschnelli: Agreed.
5882019-08-08T19:37:58 <moneyball> achow101: yes would you like access?
5892019-08-08T19:38:10 <achow101> sure
5902019-08-08T19:38:10 <phantomcircuit> achow101, travis is mostly hitting fp on resource exhaustion issues
5912019-08-08T19:38:12 <luke-jr> moneyball: they can't just enable the entire repo +forks? :/
5922019-08-08T19:38:25 <moneyball> i don't know
5932019-08-08T19:38:28 <sipa> yeah, let's ask them how this works
5942019-08-08T19:38:36 <moneyball> i will clarify with them
5952019-08-08T19:38:47 <achow101> just enable it for anyone in the bitcoin and bitcoin-core orgs :)
5962019-08-08T19:38:53 <MarcoFalke> Let's not enable the repo for now and keep testing in forks only
5972019-08-08T19:38:58 <jonasschnelli> I'd also hope we consider some ethos and not further extend our reliance on github
5982019-08-08T19:40:16 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I agree, it's just, if we don't rely on anything further then switching from travis to github for CI doesn't make a difference, they're both centralized and githyb only
5992019-08-08T19:40:40 <fanquake> wumpus: any other topics?
6002019-08-08T19:40:49 <wumpus> nope
6012019-08-08T19:41:02 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: There is maybe no technical difference,... but the signal to the community/world is different
6022019-08-08T19:41:41 <MarcoFalke> Ok, that is a point I buy. They might say the GitHub ci is "approved by Bitcoin Core"
6032019-08-08T19:41:52 <wumpus> Could someone share a writeup of how to run the functional tests in qemu <- I'll try if I get around to it, I think the most difficult part is setting up the faux-root filesystem for the target, though on some distros you can install that as package
6042019-08-08T19:42:03 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, that's scary
6052019-08-08T19:42:21 <jonasschnelli> "Bitcoin Core implemente GitHub CI after talks with their CEO,... a week after they acted in massive censorship"
6062019-08-08T19:42:40 <jonasschnelli> (I know I overstretch it)
6072019-08-08T19:43:11 <fanquake> Then weâd all have to jump on Medium and explain our actions in an emoji filled post mortem.
6082019-08-08T19:43:58 <luke-jr> might be a harder story to spin if we have our own CI at the same time
6092019-08-08T19:44:11 <achow101> we could deploy both github CI and bitcoinbuilds simultaneously?
6102019-08-08T19:44:11 <wumpus> haha way to go, fly ahead of the rumors in the meeting ð
6112019-08-08T19:44:24 <luke-jr> "We're migrating to our own CI, but helping GitHub test theirs too"
6122019-08-08T19:44:27 <MarcoFalke> I'll experiment with the ci a bit in the coming days to see if it fits our use case. We can discuss more after everyone had a look
6132019-08-08T19:44:41 <jonasschnelli> thanks MarcoFalke
6142019-08-08T19:44:46 <achow101> +1
6152019-08-08T19:45:25 <wumpus> yes, let's try that, maybe it's worse a match for our CI needs than travis is, then it's not even worth discussing further
6162019-08-08T19:45:46 <wumpus> #endmeeting
6172019-08-08T19:45:46 <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Aug 8 19:45:46 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
6182019-08-08T19:45:46 <lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-08-08-19.01.html
6192019-08-08T19:45:46 <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-08-08-19.01.txt
6202019-08-08T19:45:46 <lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-08-08-19.01.log.html
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6242019-08-08T19:57:22 <jamesob> sorry I missed the meeting - can I get #16443 thrown on the high prio list?
6252019-08-08T19:57:24 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16443 | refactor: have CCoins* data managed under CChainState by jamesob · Pull Request #16443 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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6272019-08-08T19:57:49 <wumpus> jamesob: sure
6282019-08-08T19:57:56 <jamesob> thanks wumpus
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6302019-08-08T19:58:55 <wumpus> HUH did anyone know you can add notes to the project pages?
6312019-08-08T19:59:16 <wumpus> this could be useful to add some information, like who proposed a blocker
6322019-08-08T19:59:37 <wumpus> (if it's not the author)
6332019-08-08T19:59:45 <jamesob> ah that's kind of cool - are the notes themselves separate from the PRs?
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6352019-08-08T20:00:55 <wumpus> yes they're simply cards like the PRs and issues but aren't actually PRs and issues
6362019-08-08T20:01:25 <MarcoFalke> I forgot to raise the topic, but what happened to 0.18.1? can we ship tomorrow?
6372019-08-08T20:01:31 <wumpus> so can be used as sub-headers and such
6382019-08-08T20:02:08 <aj> oh, if you put the issue number in a note it includes the issue summary info too
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6402019-08-08T20:02:43 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: the signatures are uploaded now, I'll upload the binaries shortly
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6422019-08-08T20:03:39 <aj> ... if you have exactly one issue number, anyway
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6932019-08-08T23:37:09 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyRubin opened pull request #16572: Fix Char as Bool in Wallet (master...fix-wallet-charbool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16572
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