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100 2019-10-21T07:54:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0d7e8d66c45c...0d6b6b7c658b
101 2019-10-21T07:54:13  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e892f96 fanquake: random: remove call to RAND_screen() (Windows only)
102 2019-10-21T07:54:13  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0d6b6b7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17191: random: remove call to RAND_screen() (Windows only)
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105 2019-10-21T07:54:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17191: random: remove call to RAND_screen() (Windows only) (master...remove_openssl_rand_screen) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17191
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128 2019-10-21T10:21:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0d6b6b7c658b...fc1040acc0d7
129 2019-10-21T10:21:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4444704 MarcoFalke: ci: Cleanup macOS runs
130 2019-10-21T10:21:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fadccb2 MarcoFalke: doc: Document that GNU tools are required for linters
131 2019-10-21T10:21:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa677d1 MarcoFalke: ci: Remove redundant check for TRAVIS_OS_NAME
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134 2019-10-21T10:21:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17176: ci: Cleanup macOS runs (master...1910-ciMac) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17176
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137 2019-10-21T10:22:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to 0.19: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3834d3d12196...5b68d1654f07
138 2019-10-21T10:22:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 ba46f39 Wladimir J. van der Laan: init: Change fallback locale to C.UTF-8
139 2019-10-21T10:22:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 dc0fe7a Wladimir J. van der Laan: util: Filter control characters out of log messages
140 2019-10-21T10:22:11  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 6a45766 MarcoFalke: doc: update bips.md with buried BIP9 deployments
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143 2019-10-21T10:22:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17197: [0.19.0] Backports (0.19...0_19_0_rc1_backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17197
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147 2019-10-21T10:30:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fc1040acc0d7...a75cb122ed66
148 2019-10-21T10:30:21  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 57e2ede JeremyCrookshank: Send amount shows minimum amount placeholder
149 2019-10-21T10:30:21  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a75cb12 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17195: gui: send amount placeholder value
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152 2019-10-21T10:30:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17195: gui: send amount placeholder value (master...defaultsendamount) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17195
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155 2019-10-21T10:34:49  <meshcollider> sipa: Is it ok if I open a new version of #13084 which also modifies the test code?
156 2019-10-21T10:34:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13084 | Do not turn OP_1NEGATE in scriptSig into 0x0181 in signing code by sipa · Pull Request #13084 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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160 2019-10-21T10:58:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider opened pull request #17204: Do not turn OP_1NEGATE in scriptSig into 0x0181 in signing code (sipa) (master...201910_1negate_rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17204
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163 2019-10-21T10:59:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider closed pull request #13084: Do not turn OP_1NEGATE in scriptSig into 0x0181 in signing code (master...201804_keepnegone) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13084
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175 2019-10-21T11:23:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sadrasabouri reopened pull request #17202: Travis CI bug in macOS environment #17178 solved (master...issue#17178) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17202
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179 2019-10-21T11:37:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #17196: rpc: clarify total_amount in gettxoutsetinfo doc (master...gettxoutsetinfo-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17196
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185 2019-10-21T11:48:53  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a75cb122ed66...a22b62481aae
186 2019-10-21T11:48:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master facec1c MarcoFalke: wallet: Avoid showing GUI popups on RPC errors
187 2019-10-21T11:48:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a22b624 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17070: wallet: Avoid showing GUI popups on RPC errors
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190 2019-10-21T11:49:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17070: wallet: Avoid showing GUI popups on RPC errors (master...1909-walletGuiPopupRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17070
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195 2019-10-21T11:57:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #17205: ci: Enable address sanitizer (ASan) stack-use-after-return checking (master...asan-detect_stack_use_after_return) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17205
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203 2019-10-21T12:38:38  <promag> wumpus: mind checking #17135 and write your concerns there?
204 2019-10-21T12:38:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17135 | gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous by promag · Pull Request #17135 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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223 2019-10-21T14:13:42  <wumpus> promag: I've already concept ACKed it
224 2019-10-21T14:15:13  <wumpus> I think it's too risky to merge it between RCs, otherwise, I'm ok with it
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268 2019-10-21T16:08:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] adamjonas opened pull request #17206: test: Add testcase to simulate bitcoin schema in leveldb (master...dbwrapper_basic_data) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17206
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273 2019-10-21T16:11:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] RandyMcMillan opened pull request #17207: doc: spelling corrections in code comments (master...spelling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17207
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281 2019-10-21T16:18:02  <luke-jr> achow101: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11082#issuecomment-544570110
282 2019-10-21T16:18:05  <luke-jr> can you elaborate?
283 2019-10-21T16:18:25  <luke-jr> when writing, it literally uses the path saved by when it was read..
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285 2019-10-21T16:21:40  <achow101> luke-jr: I was testing #15454 (which uses 11082) and it wasn't working as I was expecting. I may just be doing something wrong in my implementation
286 2019-10-21T16:21:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15454 | Remove the automatic creation and loading of the default wallet by achow101 · Pull Request #15454 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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288 2019-10-21T16:23:48  <luke-jr> achow101: it may be helpful to clarify that in your comment so people don't assume it's a blocking problem ;)
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290 2019-10-21T16:29:35  <achow101> well it might be, I didn't debug it super far, but IIRC moving the file to the datadir worked
291 2019-10-21T16:30:06  <achow101> i'll debug further today
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309 2019-10-21T17:17:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #17208: Make all tests pass UBSan without using any UBSan suppressions (master...ubsan-warnings) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17208
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347 2019-10-21T18:25:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] RandyMcMillan closed pull request #17207: doc: spelling corrections in code comments (master...spelling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17207
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353 2019-10-21T18:35:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #17209: tests: Remove no longer needed UBSan suppressions (issues fixed). Add documentation. (master...update-ubsan-suppressions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17209
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357 2019-10-21T18:45:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] emilengler opened pull request #17210: qt: Make bech32 opt out (master...2019-10-bech32-opt-out) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17210
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367 2019-10-21T18:57:43  <jeremyrubin> BlueMatt: sdaftuar: I'm looking at descendant tracking recently, morcos suggested I ping you both. Similar to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15681/files, I'd like to make an exception for OP_SECURETHEBAG transactions where the descendant does not get counted if its parent is an OP_SECUREHTEBAG and it goes through ancestors to some confirmed output, which is an OP_SECURETHEBAG. This property would 'prove' that the
368 2019-10-21T18:57:44  <jeremyrubin> data is immutable, and therefore impossible to be replaced without a reorg. The issue otherwise is that an OP_SECURETHEBAG transaction tree with a large number of recipients and a small radix quickly surpasses the descendants limit (large radixes can be OK).  See https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/master...JeremyRubin:stb-with-rpc?expand=1 for more details on the implementation details
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371 2019-10-21T19:00:11  <jeremyrubin> I guess concretely, my question is if you have thoughts on how best to make such modifications
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375 2019-10-21T19:08:25  <sdaftuar> i'm a bit confused -- why are we talking about proving data immutability?  the descendant tracking limit is for limiting cpu overhead when updating package state (eg for transaction selection in CreateNewBlock)
376 2019-10-21T19:09:05  <jeremyrubin> Hm ok -- my understanding was that desc tracking was to limit the amount of churn caused by replacing an ancestor
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378 2019-10-21T19:09:46  <sdaftuar> my recollection of the history there is that we realized we needed some limit (less than 1MB) in order to prevent stuffing the mempool full of stuff that would never get mined
379 2019-10-21T19:09:52  <jeremyrubin> (which is why -- if the ancestor is irreplacable/immutable, then there is 0 churn)
380 2019-10-21T19:10:05  <sdaftuar> eg if you have a high fee child with 1MB of 0-fee ancestors, you have a problem
381 2019-10-21T19:10:21  <sdaftuar> pretty sure this was possible in old versions of bitcoin core
382 2019-10-21T19:10:48  <jeremyrubin> Hm
383 2019-10-21T19:10:56  <jeremyrubin> I was going off of https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010221.html
384 2019-10-21T19:11:35  <jeremyrubin> > the mempool is full a new transaction must be able to pay not only for the
385 2019-10-21T19:11:36  <jeremyrubin> > transaction it would evict, but any dependent transactions that would be
386 2019-10-21T19:11:38  <jeremyrubin> > removed from the mempool as well.  In order to make sure this is always
387 2019-10-21T19:11:39  <jeremyrubin> > feasible, I'm proposing 4 new policy limits
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389 2019-10-21T19:12:24  <sdaftuar> then we later realized when we did mempool eviction that there is a small amount of free-relay possible, up to the size of  single descendant package
390 2019-10-21T19:12:44  <sdaftuar> so making those packages smaller was good for that reason as well, and for updating mempool state after a reorg
391 2019-10-21T19:12:53  <sdaftuar> (the latter being a very minor reason)
392 2019-10-21T19:13:14  <sdaftuar> then when we did ancestor-feerate mining, we observed that small package sizes help a lot with ensuring that code stays fast
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395 2019-10-21T19:13:40  <sdaftuar> because there's potentially a lot of descendant walking in order to update package feerates as transactions are selected
396 2019-10-21T19:13:48  <sdaftuar> there, the number of descendants is the relevant thing
397 2019-10-21T19:14:15  <sdaftuar> anyway these are all just heuristics, and there's room to tweak any given one, but i think it could be problematic to unbound anything
398 2019-10-21T19:14:46  <jeremyrubin> Hm ok -- what about caching for some of this stuff?
399 2019-10-21T19:15:03  <jeremyrubin> E.g., for OP_SECURETHEBAG you can cache the walks (immutably so)
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401 2019-10-21T19:15:26  <sdaftuar> you mean caching mempool package statistics?
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404 2019-10-21T19:16:28  <sdaftuar> i'm not sure what that means/in what context
405 2019-10-21T19:16:30  <jeremyrubin> Maybe let's jump up a level or two for a sec
406 2019-10-21T19:16:44  <jeremyrubin> Are you familiar with OP_SECURETHEBAG
407 2019-10-21T19:16:50  <sdaftuar> COSHV right
408 2019-10-21T19:16:53  <jeremyrubin> yeah
409 2019-10-21T19:16:57  <sdaftuar> yeah let's call it coshv :)
410 2019-10-21T19:17:15  <jeremyrubin> Well it's more than just the outputs that has to be hashed
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412 2019-10-21T19:18:19  <jeremyrubin> but anyways
413 2019-10-21T19:20:31  <sdaftuar> oh the inputs (aside from witnesses) are hashed as well i guess?
414 2019-10-21T19:22:07  <jeremyrubin> no
415 2019-10-21T19:22:22  <jeremyrubin> You hash everything except for the inputs, plus the number of inputs
416 2019-10-21T19:22:31  <jeremyrubin> And the sequences you hash too
417 2019-10-21T19:22:39  <jeremyrubin> but not the COutpoint
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419 2019-10-21T19:23:14  <sdaftuar> ah ok
420 2019-10-21T19:23:17  <jeremyrubin> You don't hash the COutpoints because you don't know it when you're constructing the Bag Hash
421 2019-10-21T19:23:37  <jeremyrubin> You only know it once you make the tree and spend from a specific output
422 2019-10-21T19:23:45  <jeremyrubin> then you can fill in the rest of the txids
423 2019-10-21T19:24:18  <jeremyrubin> If you look at the RPC code this shows how this works
424 2019-10-21T19:24:20  <jeremyrubin> 1 sec...
425 2019-10-21T19:24:32  <jeremyrubin> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/35e9ca1653bba805c48941debc77c256094d880e
426 2019-10-21T19:26:00  <sdaftuar> ok i think i get it
427 2019-10-21T19:26:18  <jeremyrubin> first you loop over the destinations, and you add a table of templates (transactions with no COutpoint, but you know the Bag Hash from the script that will create it) then you iterate over the outputs, filling in the templates
428 2019-10-21T19:26:39  <jeremyrubin> So let's say we have 1000 recipients.
429 2019-10-21T19:27:08  <jeremyrubin> And we use a radix of 200. Then we have one transaction with 5 outputs, and 5 transactions with 200 outputs.
430 2019-10-21T19:27:25  <jeremyrubin> This fits within the decendants tracking default params.
431 2019-10-21T19:27:26  <sdaftuar> ok
432 2019-10-21T19:27:49  <jeremyrubin> Now we use a radix of 4 (which is optimal for specific use cases)
433 2019-10-21T19:28:46  <jeremyrubin> Then we get a much deeper tree
434 2019-10-21T19:28:55  <jeremyrubin> like 5 levels I think
435 2019-10-21T19:28:55  <sdaftuar> yeah that's a lot of transactions!
436 2019-10-21T19:29:21  <sdaftuar> anyway i think if there are reasonable use cases that would benefit from bumping the numbers a bit, we can certainly bump the numbers
437 2019-10-21T19:29:30  <sdaftuar> but i don't think we're likely to increase by a factor of 10 or something
438 2019-10-21T19:29:37  <jeremyrubin> Well so here's the thing that would be worth looking at
439 2019-10-21T19:29:41  <jeremyrubin> specifically in this case
440 2019-10-21T19:29:49  <jeremyrubin> We know those txns can never change if the root is confirmed
441 2019-10-21T19:29:50  * sdaftuar has to run (will catch up later)
442 2019-10-21T19:29:53  <jeremyrubin> kk
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444 2019-10-21T19:30:55  <jeremyrubin> So it's really not that many transactions
445 2019-10-21T19:31:05  <jeremyrubin> So at the base layer you have 250 transactions
446 2019-10-21T19:31:12  <jeremyrubin> A layer up, you have 63
447 2019-10-21T19:31:30  <jeremyrubin> (round to 64)
448 2019-10-21T19:31:36  <jeremyrubin> then 16
449 2019-10-21T19:31:41  <jeremyrubin> then 4
450 2019-10-21T19:31:43  <jeremyrubin> then 1
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452 2019-10-21T19:32:19  <jeremyrubin> so a total of 334 txns
453 2019-10-21T19:33:28  <jeremyrubin> But size wise, the interior nodes are all small so it's only 70808 bytes
454 2019-10-21T19:34:02  <jeremyrubin> (interior and leaf)
455 2019-10-21T19:34:51  <jeremyrubin> So if you compare to the case of a non-OP_SECURETHEBAG txn, which is like 42000 bytes it's not too much extra bytes wise.
456 2019-10-21T19:35:53  <jeremyrubin> Fees only need to be like 40% lower for this to be worth it purely fees wise...
457 2019-10-21T19:35:58  <jeremyrubin> Anyways
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459 2019-10-21T19:36:54  <jeremyrubin> The issue is that as soon as a branch or two expands (or you expand out a couple levels) you saturate your descendant limit
460 2019-10-21T19:37:18  <jeremyrubin> Which sucks because people on different ends of the tree are entirely different
461 2019-10-21T19:37:40  <jeremyrubin> And if you saturate at multiple interior nodes and no leafs, it makes it difficult for you to do CPFP
462 2019-10-21T19:38:23  <jeremyrubin> So the solution that I'd like to explore is some kind of special casing to discount things which are OP_SECURETHEBAG
463 2019-10-21T19:38:26  <harding> Use CSV to enforce an ordering on who can spend when?
464 2019-10-21T19:38:56  <jeremyrubin> harding: that's inefficient
465 2019-10-21T19:39:05  <jeremyrubin> They should be consumable as needed
466 2019-10-21T19:39:14  <jeremyrubin> And we don't know who wants out first
467 2019-10-21T19:39:37  <jeremyrubin> CSV therefore makes us have to do more bandwidth than needed to extract an output
468 2019-10-21T19:40:17  <harding> I was thinking to CSV(1 block) the interior nodes so that nobody could expand more than one level at a time.
469 2019-10-21T19:41:01  <jeremyrubin> hmm. But what if fees are low now, and not in an hour
470 2019-10-21T19:41:20  <jeremyrubin> And that doesn't solve the problem in any case
471 2019-10-21T19:41:25  <jeremyrubin> that's a block level fix
472 2019-10-21T19:41:29  <jeremyrubin> we need a mempool fix
473 2019-10-21T19:41:31  <harding> It doesn't?
474 2019-10-21T19:41:52  <harding> Ok.
475 2019-10-21T19:42:04  <jeremyrubin> AFAIK we'll still lock up the mempool for such txns
476 2019-10-21T19:42:17  <sipa> is that a problem?
477 2019-10-21T19:42:48  <jeremyrubin> sipa: read scrollback
478 2019-10-21T19:42:49  <sipa> all participants know that once the bag output is confirmed, the committed to transactions will follow?
479 2019-10-21T19:42:59  <jeremyrubin> Yes
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481 2019-10-21T19:43:18  <jeremyrubin> But it would be nice if they could all be immediately put into the mempool
482 2019-10-21T19:43:18  <sipa> so is it a problem that not all of them fit in the mempool simultaneously?
483 2019-10-21T19:43:24  <jeremyrubin> Yes
484 2019-10-21T19:43:28  <sipa> ok
485 2019-10-21T19:43:53  <jeremyrubin> It's not a blocker for the technique working at all
486 2019-10-21T19:44:03  <sipa> right, i see
487 2019-10-21T19:44:05  <jeremyrubin> it's just that they should go in the mempool so they can be used
488 2019-10-21T19:44:15  <harding> jeremyrubin: I think using CSV to require all inputs to be confirmed would prevent the transactions from being grouped into packages, so the only problem would be an n-block delay for trees of depth n.
489 2019-10-21T19:45:14  <jeremyrubin> harding: I'm not sure -- does it. (also we don't need a CSV because STB let's you set a sequence)
490 2019-10-21T19:45:28  <jeremyrubin> If a txn isn't in a package do ancestor rules apply?
491 2019-10-21T19:45:39  <jeremyrubin> Are there other ways to break ancestor rules?
492 2019-10-21T19:46:04  <sipa> packages are implicitly defined by ancestors
493 2019-10-21T19:46:05  <sipa> OAOB
494 2019-10-21T19:46:07  <sipa> i believe
495 2019-10-21T19:46:11  <harding> jeremyrubin: no, otherwise most transactions would be in packages extending back thousands of transactions to when their coins were mined.  :-)
496 2019-10-21T19:46:34  <jeremyrubin> But you break the packages at a confirmed ancestor
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498 2019-10-21T19:46:50  <jeremyrubin> Ah I guess I see your point
499 2019-10-21T19:47:02  <jeremyrubin> CSV provably says these can't be mined as a package
500 2019-10-21T19:47:08  <jeremyrubin> so we could modify around that?
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502 2019-10-21T19:47:37  <jeremyrubin> But I think we really want to be able to do them all in a single block, because we don't want to impose the latency at the time you decide to spend
503 2019-10-21T19:47:55  <jeremyrubin> otherwise people will be having to expand more than neccessary to be 'ready'
504 2019-10-21T19:48:05  <sipa> you can't guarantee everything going into one block anyway
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506 2019-10-21T19:48:13  <jeremyrubin> sure
507 2019-10-21T19:48:22  <jeremyrubin> But that's differnet than provably cannot be in one block
508 2019-10-21T19:48:38  <sipa> maybe
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510 2019-10-21T19:48:53  <jeremyrubin> Best-available QoS at given price v.s. at best n-blocks
511 2019-10-21T19:48:54  <sipa> i feels to me like OP_STB is exactly making it less important when things get settled on chain
512 2019-10-21T19:49:14  <jeremyrubin> Well so when you are expanding that's precisely the time where you care
513 2019-10-21T19:49:23  <jeremyrubin> because then you're spending to someone new
514 2019-10-21T19:49:40  <jeremyrubin> and then that spend will be unconfirmed for at least N more blocks than absolutely needed
515 2019-10-21T19:49:40  <sipa> ah, i thought you'd do it in the general vicinity of low-fee times
516 2019-10-21T19:49:57  <jeremyrubin> hopefully, yes
517 2019-10-21T19:50:01  <sipa> of course it'd be nice if you can always guarantee optimal efficiency of getting things into the chain
518 2019-10-21T19:50:06  <jeremyrubin> But you also might just need it at a certain time
519 2019-10-21T19:50:14  <sipa> but it feels like a minor issue to me that it's 1 few blocks extra
520 2019-10-21T19:50:24  <sipa> ok
521 2019-10-21T19:50:42  <harding> How significant is this problem, though?  I mean, can't we just recommend that coshv trees never have more the x leafs?
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524 2019-10-21T19:51:01  <jeremyrubin> x is small
525 2019-10-21T19:51:08  <jeremyrubin> < 25
526 2019-10-21T19:51:25  <harding> That's fair.
527 2019-10-21T19:51:33  <jeremyrubin> And what's annoying is the likely solution people will have is to use a large radix, like 200
528 2019-10-21T19:51:56  <jeremyrubin> Which is compatible with current rules for a larger tree (e.g., 1000)
529 2019-10-21T19:52:06  <jeremyrubin> Which is OK
530 2019-10-21T19:52:21  <jeremyrubin> larger radix uses less overall on-chain extra data (which is prunable tho)
531 2019-10-21T19:52:27  <jeremyrubin> But passes more expense onto a spender
532 2019-10-21T19:52:41  <jeremyrubin> Which means that the fee savings are less effective
533 2019-10-21T19:53:01  <jeremyrubin> 4 is the optimal radix for users -- minimizes the extra data they pay for
534 2019-10-21T19:54:44  <harding> Eh, I guess x is really 1 given that the receiver can just create their own descendent transactions.
535 2019-10-21T19:54:53  <jeremyrubin> correct
536 2019-10-21T19:55:02  <jeremyrubin> which is the same issue that matt points out
537 2019-10-21T19:55:11  <jeremyrubin> that we want to always permit '1 more' descendant
538 2019-10-21T19:55:13  <harding> So this radix stuff doesn't directly apply unless coshv gets some sort of mempool exception, I think.
539 2019-10-21T19:55:28  <jeremyrubin> Which radix stuff?
540 2019-10-21T19:55:33  <jeremyrubin> No the radixes still work
541 2019-10-21T19:55:59  <jeremyrubin> you just need to compute the radix such that the number of transactions and total size is under the descedants limit
542 2019-10-21T19:56:00  <harding> They work, but I don't think having a larger radix provides any additional immunity to transaction pinning.
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544 2019-10-21T19:56:20  <jeremyrubin> Ah
545 2019-10-21T19:56:30  <jeremyrubin> because the spend-from issue?
546 2019-10-21T19:56:36  <harding> Yeah.
547 2019-10-21T19:56:48  <jeremyrubin> I think that might be right.
548 2019-10-21T19:58:16  <jeremyrubin> Well
549 2019-10-21T19:58:18  <jeremyrubin> No
550 2019-10-21T19:58:25  <jeremyrubin> that's not completely true
551 2019-10-21T19:58:29  <jeremyrubin> You can still do it
552 2019-10-21T19:59:42  <jeremyrubin> It just makes it work less well, especially if someone does low fee rate
553 2019-10-21T19:59:51  <jeremyrubin> So you'd want some anyone can spend nodes in the tree
554 2019-10-21T20:00:02  <jeremyrubin> for people to be able to replace by fee with high fee txns
555 2019-10-21T20:00:19  <jeremyrubin> to bump interior nodes through confirmation
556 2019-10-21T20:00:28  <jeremyrubin> which frees up the other half of the tree
557 2019-10-21T20:00:55  <jeremyrubin> So you *can* get it to work with the existing stuff
558 2019-10-21T20:01:20  <jeremyrubin> It's just much more annoying than coding an exception for these immutable type txns.
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568 2019-10-21T20:13:03  <harding> Ancillary, it occurs to me that if you have a large tree of internal nodes and also a few receivers trying to CPFP bump the leaves, they could cause the minimum feerate of the mempool to increase faster than the package feerate of the coshv root node, causing the whole package to be evicted from the mempool.
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572 2019-10-21T20:17:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] RandyMcMillan reopened pull request #17207: doc: spelling corrections in code comments (master...spelling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17207
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574 2019-10-21T20:18:50  <jeremyrubin> Huh. This sounds like a general issue?
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576 2019-10-21T20:19:48  <harding> Yeah, I was just thinking that.  Maybe I just figured out for myself why we have both a desecendant limit *and* an ancestor limit.  :-)
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578 2019-10-21T20:26:02  <harding> Oh, goodness, that's probably what sdaftuar was talking about at the beginning of this thread: <sdaftuar> then we later realized when we did mempool eviction that there is a small amount of free-relay possible, up to the size of  single descendant package
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581 2019-10-21T20:29:52  <harding> jeremyrubin: so reading Suhas's comments earlier in the thread, I think maybe an issue with your proposal is that the package wouldn't be immutable if the receivers could CPFP fee bump their receiving transactions (the leaves).  E.g., for each CPFP transaction, there would be a cascade of changes to the package fee through the tree.  The mempool could refuse to accept mutable children from outside the tree, but then the users
582 2019-10-21T20:29:52  <harding> couldn't fee bump.
583 2019-10-21T20:30:25  <jeremyrubin> hm
584 2019-10-21T20:30:45  <jeremyrubin> This is why i'm saying that there can be some caching going on within the tree
585 2019-10-21T20:30:57  <jeremyrubin> But I see what you mean
586 2019-10-21T20:31:08  <jeremyrubin> That a leaf change guarantees log(N) updates through the tree
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588 2019-10-21T20:31:20  <jeremyrubin> But I don't care to change the ancestor limit
589 2019-10-21T20:31:23  <jeremyrubin> just descendant
590 2019-10-21T20:31:28  <jeremyrubin> Which I think makes it OK
591 2019-10-21T20:31:38  <jeremyrubin> 20 ancestors is PLENTY
592 2019-10-21T20:31:47  <jeremyrubin> 20 descendants is paltry
593 2019-10-21T20:32:03  <jeremyrubin> 20 ancestors can cover like 4**20 which is big enuf
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596 2019-10-21T20:36:18  <harding> jeremyrubin: I dunno, `getrawmempool true` returns various "descendent*" fields to me, so even though I think you're right that only log(n) entries need their "modified" fees updated, it seems that descendant information might need to be updated too?
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598 2019-10-21T20:40:04  <harding> Oh, I guess that's not recursive since it doesn't include the modified rates.  Sorry.
599 2019-10-21T20:40:23  <jeremyrubin> correct
600 2019-10-21T20:40:36  <jeremyrubin> Log N upwards, O(2N) downwards
601 2019-10-21T20:40:58  <jeremyrubin> But then it can be worse if the leaf is doing what you said
602 2019-10-21T20:41:22  <jeremyrubin> which is why it makes sense maybe, for OP_STB, to have a branched descendants limit
603 2019-10-21T20:41:26  <jeremyrubin> descendants depth
604 2019-10-21T20:41:29  <jeremyrubin> rather than raw count
605 2019-10-21T20:41:46  <jeremyrubin> But I guess theres a question of special casing v.s. generally safe technique
606 2019-10-21T20:42:14  <jeremyrubin> Im confident special casing can work but maybe not a general technique to all outputs
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627 2019-10-21T21:29:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #17211: Allow fundrawtransaction and walletcreatefundedpsbt to take external inputs (master...fundtx-external-inputs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17211
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655 2019-10-21T22:16:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #17212: refactor: Remove unused CExt{Pub,}Key (de)serialization methods (master...20191021-refactor-remove_unused_cextkey_and_cextpubkey_serialization) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17212
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665 2019-10-21T22:33:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #17213: gui: Add Windows taskbar progress (master...win_taskbar_progress) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17213
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672 2019-10-21T22:39:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyCrookshank closed pull request #17180: gui: Improved tooltip for send amount field (master...sendamounttooltip) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17180
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683 2019-10-21T22:57:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyCrookshank reopened pull request #17180: gui: Improved tooltip for send amount field (master...sendamounttooltip) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17180
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