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1002019-10-21T07:54:12 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0d7e8d66c45c...0d6b6b7c658b
1012019-10-21T07:54:13 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e892f96 fanquake: random: remove call to RAND_screen() (Windows only)
1022019-10-21T07:54:13 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0d6b6b7 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17191: random: remove call to RAND_screen() (Windows only)
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1052019-10-21T07:54:32 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17191: random: remove call to RAND_screen() (Windows only) (master...remove_openssl_rand_screen) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17191
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1282019-10-21T10:21:28 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0d6b6b7c658b...fc1040acc0d7
1292019-10-21T10:21:29 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4444704 MarcoFalke: ci: Cleanup macOS runs
1302019-10-21T10:21:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fadccb2 MarcoFalke: doc: Document that GNU tools are required for linters
1312019-10-21T10:21:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa677d1 MarcoFalke: ci: Remove redundant check for TRAVIS_OS_NAME
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1342019-10-21T10:21:47 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17176: ci: Cleanup macOS runs (master...1910-ciMac) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17176
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1372019-10-21T10:22:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to 0.19: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3834d3d12196...5b68d1654f07
1382019-10-21T10:22:09 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 ba46f39 Wladimir J. van der Laan: init: Change fallback locale to C.UTF-8
1392019-10-21T10:22:10 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 dc0fe7a Wladimir J. van der Laan: util: Filter control characters out of log messages
1402019-10-21T10:22:11 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 6a45766 MarcoFalke: doc: update bips.md with buried BIP9 deployments
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1432019-10-21T10:22:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17197: [0.19.0] Backports (0.19...0_19_0_rc1_backports) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17197
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1472019-10-21T10:30:20 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fc1040acc0d7...a75cb122ed66
1482019-10-21T10:30:21 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 57e2ede JeremyCrookshank: Send amount shows minimum amount placeholder
1492019-10-21T10:30:21 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a75cb12 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17195: gui: send amount placeholder value
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1522019-10-21T10:30:41 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17195: gui: send amount placeholder value (master...defaultsendamount) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17195
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1552019-10-21T10:34:49 <meshcollider> sipa: Is it ok if I open a new version of #13084 which also modifies the test code?
1562019-10-21T10:34:51 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13084 | Do not turn OP_1NEGATE in scriptSig into 0x0181 in signing code by sipa · Pull Request #13084 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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1602019-10-21T10:58:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider opened pull request #17204: Do not turn OP_1NEGATE in scriptSig into 0x0181 in signing code (sipa) (master...201910_1negate_rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17204
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1632019-10-21T10:59:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider closed pull request #13084: Do not turn OP_1NEGATE in scriptSig into 0x0181 in signing code (master...201804_keepnegone) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13084
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1752019-10-21T11:23:40 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sadrasabouri reopened pull request #17202: Travis CI bug in macOS environment #17178 solved (master...issue#17178) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17202
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1792019-10-21T11:37:32 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #17196: rpc: clarify total_amount in gettxoutsetinfo doc (master...gettxoutsetinfo-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17196
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1852019-10-21T11:48:53 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a75cb122ed66...a22b62481aae
1862019-10-21T11:48:54 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master facec1c MarcoFalke: wallet: Avoid showing GUI popups on RPC errors
1872019-10-21T11:48:54 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a22b624 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17070: wallet: Avoid showing GUI popups on RPC errors
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1902019-10-21T11:49:13 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17070: wallet: Avoid showing GUI popups on RPC errors (master...1909-walletGuiPopupRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17070
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1952019-10-21T11:57:59 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #17205: ci: Enable address sanitizer (ASan) stack-use-after-return checking (master...asan-detect_stack_use_after_return) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17205
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2032019-10-21T12:38:38 <promag> wumpus: mind checking #17135 and write your concerns there?
2042019-10-21T12:38:40 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17135 | gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous by promag · Pull Request #17135 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2232019-10-21T14:13:42 <wumpus> promag: I've already concept ACKed it
2242019-10-21T14:15:13 <wumpus> I think it's too risky to merge it between RCs, otherwise, I'm ok with it
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2682019-10-21T16:08:22 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] adamjonas opened pull request #17206: test: Add testcase to simulate bitcoin schema in leveldb (master...dbwrapper_basic_data) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17206
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2732019-10-21T16:11:10 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] RandyMcMillan opened pull request #17207: doc: spelling corrections in code comments (master...spelling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17207
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2812019-10-21T16:18:02 <luke-jr> achow101: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/11082#issuecomment-544570110
2822019-10-21T16:18:05 <luke-jr> can you elaborate?
2832019-10-21T16:18:25 <luke-jr> when writing, it literally uses the path saved by when it was read..
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2852019-10-21T16:21:40 <achow101> luke-jr: I was testing #15454 (which uses 11082) and it wasn't working as I was expecting. I may just be doing something wrong in my implementation
2862019-10-21T16:21:42 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15454 | Remove the automatic creation and loading of the default wallet by achow101 · Pull Request #15454 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2882019-10-21T16:23:48 <luke-jr> achow101: it may be helpful to clarify that in your comment so people don't assume it's a blocking problem ;)
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2902019-10-21T16:29:35 <achow101> well it might be, I didn't debug it super far, but IIRC moving the file to the datadir worked
2912019-10-21T16:30:06 <achow101> i'll debug further today
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3092019-10-21T17:17:25 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #17208: Make all tests pass UBSan without using any UBSan suppressions (master...ubsan-warnings) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17208
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3472019-10-21T18:25:12 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] RandyMcMillan closed pull request #17207: doc: spelling corrections in code comments (master...spelling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17207
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3532019-10-21T18:35:16 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #17209: tests: Remove no longer needed UBSan suppressions (issues fixed). Add documentation. (master...update-ubsan-suppressions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17209
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3572019-10-21T18:45:17 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] emilengler opened pull request #17210: qt: Make bech32 opt out (master...2019-10-bech32-opt-out) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17210
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3672019-10-21T18:57:43 <jeremyrubin> BlueMatt: sdaftuar: I'm looking at descendant tracking recently, morcos suggested I ping you both. Similar to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15681/files, I'd like to make an exception for OP_SECURETHEBAG transactions where the descendant does not get counted if its parent is an OP_SECUREHTEBAG and it goes through ancestors to some confirmed output, which is an OP_SECURETHEBAG. This property would 'prove' that the
3682019-10-21T18:57:44 <jeremyrubin> data is immutable, and therefore impossible to be replaced without a reorg. The issue otherwise is that an OP_SECURETHEBAG transaction tree with a large number of recipients and a small radix quickly surpasses the descendants limit (large radixes can be OK). See https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/master...JeremyRubin:stb-with-rpc?expand=1 for more details on the implementation details
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3712019-10-21T19:00:11 <jeremyrubin> I guess concretely, my question is if you have thoughts on how best to make such modifications
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3752019-10-21T19:08:25 <sdaftuar> i'm a bit confused -- why are we talking about proving data immutability? the descendant tracking limit is for limiting cpu overhead when updating package state (eg for transaction selection in CreateNewBlock)
3762019-10-21T19:09:05 <jeremyrubin> Hm ok -- my understanding was that desc tracking was to limit the amount of churn caused by replacing an ancestor
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3782019-10-21T19:09:46 <sdaftuar> my recollection of the history there is that we realized we needed some limit (less than 1MB) in order to prevent stuffing the mempool full of stuff that would never get mined
3792019-10-21T19:09:52 <jeremyrubin> (which is why -- if the ancestor is irreplacable/immutable, then there is 0 churn)
3802019-10-21T19:10:05 <sdaftuar> eg if you have a high fee child with 1MB of 0-fee ancestors, you have a problem
3812019-10-21T19:10:21 <sdaftuar> pretty sure this was possible in old versions of bitcoin core
3822019-10-21T19:10:48 <jeremyrubin> Hm
3832019-10-21T19:10:56 <jeremyrubin> I was going off of https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010221.html
3842019-10-21T19:11:35 <jeremyrubin> > the mempool is full a new transaction must be able to pay not only for the
3852019-10-21T19:11:36 <jeremyrubin> > transaction it would evict, but any dependent transactions that would be
3862019-10-21T19:11:38 <jeremyrubin> > removed from the mempool as well. In order to make sure this is always
3872019-10-21T19:11:39 <jeremyrubin> > feasible, I'm proposing 4 new policy limits
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3892019-10-21T19:12:24 <sdaftuar> then we later realized when we did mempool eviction that there is a small amount of free-relay possible, up to the size of single descendant package
3902019-10-21T19:12:44 <sdaftuar> so making those packages smaller was good for that reason as well, and for updating mempool state after a reorg
3912019-10-21T19:12:53 <sdaftuar> (the latter being a very minor reason)
3922019-10-21T19:13:14 <sdaftuar> then when we did ancestor-feerate mining, we observed that small package sizes help a lot with ensuring that code stays fast
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3952019-10-21T19:13:40 <sdaftuar> because there's potentially a lot of descendant walking in order to update package feerates as transactions are selected
3962019-10-21T19:13:48 <sdaftuar> there, the number of descendants is the relevant thing
3972019-10-21T19:14:15 <sdaftuar> anyway these are all just heuristics, and there's room to tweak any given one, but i think it could be problematic to unbound anything
3982019-10-21T19:14:46 <jeremyrubin> Hm ok -- what about caching for some of this stuff?
3992019-10-21T19:15:03 <jeremyrubin> E.g., for OP_SECURETHEBAG you can cache the walks (immutably so)
4002019-10-21T19:15:14 *** kotisky has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4012019-10-21T19:15:26 <sdaftuar> you mean caching mempool package statistics?
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4042019-10-21T19:16:28 <sdaftuar> i'm not sure what that means/in what context
4052019-10-21T19:16:30 <jeremyrubin> Maybe let's jump up a level or two for a sec
4062019-10-21T19:16:44 <jeremyrubin> Are you familiar with OP_SECURETHEBAG
4072019-10-21T19:16:50 <sdaftuar> COSHV right
4082019-10-21T19:16:53 <jeremyrubin> yeah
4092019-10-21T19:16:57 <sdaftuar> yeah let's call it coshv :)
4102019-10-21T19:17:15 <jeremyrubin> Well it's more than just the outputs that has to be hashed
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4122019-10-21T19:18:19 <jeremyrubin> but anyways
4132019-10-21T19:20:31 <sdaftuar> oh the inputs (aside from witnesses) are hashed as well i guess?
4142019-10-21T19:22:07 <jeremyrubin> no
4152019-10-21T19:22:22 <jeremyrubin> You hash everything except for the inputs, plus the number of inputs
4162019-10-21T19:22:31 <jeremyrubin> And the sequences you hash too
4172019-10-21T19:22:39 <jeremyrubin> but not the COutpoint
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4192019-10-21T19:23:14 <sdaftuar> ah ok
4202019-10-21T19:23:17 <jeremyrubin> You don't hash the COutpoints because you don't know it when you're constructing the Bag Hash
4212019-10-21T19:23:37 <jeremyrubin> You only know it once you make the tree and spend from a specific output
4222019-10-21T19:23:45 <jeremyrubin> then you can fill in the rest of the txids
4232019-10-21T19:24:18 <jeremyrubin> If you look at the RPC code this shows how this works
4242019-10-21T19:24:20 <jeremyrubin> 1 sec...
4252019-10-21T19:24:32 <jeremyrubin> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/35e9ca1653bba805c48941debc77c256094d880e
4262019-10-21T19:26:00 <sdaftuar> ok i think i get it
4272019-10-21T19:26:18 <jeremyrubin> first you loop over the destinations, and you add a table of templates (transactions with no COutpoint, but you know the Bag Hash from the script that will create it) then you iterate over the outputs, filling in the templates
4282019-10-21T19:26:39 <jeremyrubin> So let's say we have 1000 recipients.
4292019-10-21T19:27:08 <jeremyrubin> And we use a radix of 200. Then we have one transaction with 5 outputs, and 5 transactions with 200 outputs.
4302019-10-21T19:27:25 <jeremyrubin> This fits within the decendants tracking default params.
4312019-10-21T19:27:26 <sdaftuar> ok
4322019-10-21T19:27:49 <jeremyrubin> Now we use a radix of 4 (which is optimal for specific use cases)
4332019-10-21T19:28:46 <jeremyrubin> Then we get a much deeper tree
4342019-10-21T19:28:55 <jeremyrubin> like 5 levels I think
4352019-10-21T19:28:55 <sdaftuar> yeah that's a lot of transactions!
4362019-10-21T19:29:21 <sdaftuar> anyway i think if there are reasonable use cases that would benefit from bumping the numbers a bit, we can certainly bump the numbers
4372019-10-21T19:29:30 <sdaftuar> but i don't think we're likely to increase by a factor of 10 or something
4382019-10-21T19:29:37 <jeremyrubin> Well so here's the thing that would be worth looking at
4392019-10-21T19:29:41 <jeremyrubin> specifically in this case
4402019-10-21T19:29:49 <jeremyrubin> We know those txns can never change if the root is confirmed
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4422019-10-21T19:29:53 <jeremyrubin> kk
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4442019-10-21T19:30:55 <jeremyrubin> So it's really not that many transactions
4452019-10-21T19:31:05 <jeremyrubin> So at the base layer you have 250 transactions
4462019-10-21T19:31:12 <jeremyrubin> A layer up, you have 63
4472019-10-21T19:31:30 <jeremyrubin> (round to 64)
4482019-10-21T19:31:36 <jeremyrubin> then 16
4492019-10-21T19:31:41 <jeremyrubin> then 4
4502019-10-21T19:31:43 <jeremyrubin> then 1
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4522019-10-21T19:32:19 <jeremyrubin> so a total of 334 txns
4532019-10-21T19:33:28 <jeremyrubin> But size wise, the interior nodes are all small so it's only 70808 bytes
4542019-10-21T19:34:02 <jeremyrubin> (interior and leaf)
4552019-10-21T19:34:51 <jeremyrubin> So if you compare to the case of a non-OP_SECURETHEBAG txn, which is like 42000 bytes it's not too much extra bytes wise.
4562019-10-21T19:35:53 <jeremyrubin> Fees only need to be like 40% lower for this to be worth it purely fees wise...
4572019-10-21T19:35:58 <jeremyrubin> Anyways
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4592019-10-21T19:36:54 <jeremyrubin> The issue is that as soon as a branch or two expands (or you expand out a couple levels) you saturate your descendant limit
4602019-10-21T19:37:18 <jeremyrubin> Which sucks because people on different ends of the tree are entirely different
4612019-10-21T19:37:40 <jeremyrubin> And if you saturate at multiple interior nodes and no leafs, it makes it difficult for you to do CPFP
4622019-10-21T19:38:23 <jeremyrubin> So the solution that I'd like to explore is some kind of special casing to discount things which are OP_SECURETHEBAG
4632019-10-21T19:38:26 <harding> Use CSV to enforce an ordering on who can spend when?
4642019-10-21T19:38:56 <jeremyrubin> harding: that's inefficient
4652019-10-21T19:39:05 <jeremyrubin> They should be consumable as needed
4662019-10-21T19:39:14 <jeremyrubin> And we don't know who wants out first
4672019-10-21T19:39:37 <jeremyrubin> CSV therefore makes us have to do more bandwidth than needed to extract an output
4682019-10-21T19:40:17 <harding> I was thinking to CSV(1 block) the interior nodes so that nobody could expand more than one level at a time.
4692019-10-21T19:41:01 <jeremyrubin> hmm. But what if fees are low now, and not in an hour
4702019-10-21T19:41:20 <jeremyrubin> And that doesn't solve the problem in any case
4712019-10-21T19:41:25 <jeremyrubin> that's a block level fix
4722019-10-21T19:41:29 <jeremyrubin> we need a mempool fix
4732019-10-21T19:41:31 <harding> It doesn't?
4742019-10-21T19:41:52 <harding> Ok.
4752019-10-21T19:42:04 <jeremyrubin> AFAIK we'll still lock up the mempool for such txns
4762019-10-21T19:42:17 <sipa> is that a problem?
4772019-10-21T19:42:48 <jeremyrubin> sipa: read scrollback
4782019-10-21T19:42:49 <sipa> all participants know that once the bag output is confirmed, the committed to transactions will follow?
4792019-10-21T19:42:59 <jeremyrubin> Yes
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4812019-10-21T19:43:18 <jeremyrubin> But it would be nice if they could all be immediately put into the mempool
4822019-10-21T19:43:18 <sipa> so is it a problem that not all of them fit in the mempool simultaneously?
4832019-10-21T19:43:24 <jeremyrubin> Yes
4842019-10-21T19:43:28 <sipa> ok
4852019-10-21T19:43:53 <jeremyrubin> It's not a blocker for the technique working at all
4862019-10-21T19:44:03 <sipa> right, i see
4872019-10-21T19:44:05 <jeremyrubin> it's just that they should go in the mempool so they can be used
4882019-10-21T19:44:15 <harding> jeremyrubin: I think using CSV to require all inputs to be confirmed would prevent the transactions from being grouped into packages, so the only problem would be an n-block delay for trees of depth n.
4892019-10-21T19:45:14 <jeremyrubin> harding: I'm not sure -- does it. (also we don't need a CSV because STB let's you set a sequence)
4902019-10-21T19:45:28 <jeremyrubin> If a txn isn't in a package do ancestor rules apply?
4912019-10-21T19:45:39 <jeremyrubin> Are there other ways to break ancestor rules?
4922019-10-21T19:46:04 <sipa> packages are implicitly defined by ancestors
4932019-10-21T19:46:05 <sipa> OAOB
4942019-10-21T19:46:07 <sipa> i believe
4952019-10-21T19:46:11 <harding> jeremyrubin: no, otherwise most transactions would be in packages extending back thousands of transactions to when their coins were mined. :-)
4962019-10-21T19:46:34 <jeremyrubin> But you break the packages at a confirmed ancestor
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4982019-10-21T19:46:50 <jeremyrubin> Ah I guess I see your point
4992019-10-21T19:47:02 <jeremyrubin> CSV provably says these can't be mined as a package
5002019-10-21T19:47:08 <jeremyrubin> so we could modify around that?
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5022019-10-21T19:47:37 <jeremyrubin> But I think we really want to be able to do them all in a single block, because we don't want to impose the latency at the time you decide to spend
5032019-10-21T19:47:55 <jeremyrubin> otherwise people will be having to expand more than neccessary to be 'ready'
5042019-10-21T19:48:05 <sipa> you can't guarantee everything going into one block anyway
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5062019-10-21T19:48:13 <jeremyrubin> sure
5072019-10-21T19:48:22 <jeremyrubin> But that's differnet than provably cannot be in one block
5082019-10-21T19:48:38 <sipa> maybe
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5102019-10-21T19:48:53 <jeremyrubin> Best-available QoS at given price v.s. at best n-blocks
5112019-10-21T19:48:54 <sipa> i feels to me like OP_STB is exactly making it less important when things get settled on chain
5122019-10-21T19:49:14 <jeremyrubin> Well so when you are expanding that's precisely the time where you care
5132019-10-21T19:49:23 <jeremyrubin> because then you're spending to someone new
5142019-10-21T19:49:40 <jeremyrubin> and then that spend will be unconfirmed for at least N more blocks than absolutely needed
5152019-10-21T19:49:40 <sipa> ah, i thought you'd do it in the general vicinity of low-fee times
5162019-10-21T19:49:57 <jeremyrubin> hopefully, yes
5172019-10-21T19:50:01 <sipa> of course it'd be nice if you can always guarantee optimal efficiency of getting things into the chain
5182019-10-21T19:50:06 <jeremyrubin> But you also might just need it at a certain time
5192019-10-21T19:50:14 <sipa> but it feels like a minor issue to me that it's 1 few blocks extra
5202019-10-21T19:50:24 <sipa> ok
5212019-10-21T19:50:42 <harding> How significant is this problem, though? I mean, can't we just recommend that coshv trees never have more the x leafs?
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5242019-10-21T19:51:01 <jeremyrubin> x is small
5252019-10-21T19:51:08 <jeremyrubin> < 25
5262019-10-21T19:51:25 <harding> That's fair.
5272019-10-21T19:51:33 <jeremyrubin> And what's annoying is the likely solution people will have is to use a large radix, like 200
5282019-10-21T19:51:56 <jeremyrubin> Which is compatible with current rules for a larger tree (e.g., 1000)
5292019-10-21T19:52:06 <jeremyrubin> Which is OK
5302019-10-21T19:52:21 <jeremyrubin> larger radix uses less overall on-chain extra data (which is prunable tho)
5312019-10-21T19:52:27 <jeremyrubin> But passes more expense onto a spender
5322019-10-21T19:52:41 <jeremyrubin> Which means that the fee savings are less effective
5332019-10-21T19:53:01 <jeremyrubin> 4 is the optimal radix for users -- minimizes the extra data they pay for
5342019-10-21T19:54:44 <harding> Eh, I guess x is really 1 given that the receiver can just create their own descendent transactions.
5352019-10-21T19:54:53 <jeremyrubin> correct
5362019-10-21T19:55:02 <jeremyrubin> which is the same issue that matt points out
5372019-10-21T19:55:11 <jeremyrubin> that we want to always permit '1 more' descendant
5382019-10-21T19:55:13 <harding> So this radix stuff doesn't directly apply unless coshv gets some sort of mempool exception, I think.
5392019-10-21T19:55:28 <jeremyrubin> Which radix stuff?
5402019-10-21T19:55:33 <jeremyrubin> No the radixes still work
5412019-10-21T19:55:59 <jeremyrubin> you just need to compute the radix such that the number of transactions and total size is under the descedants limit
5422019-10-21T19:56:00 <harding> They work, but I don't think having a larger radix provides any additional immunity to transaction pinning.
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5442019-10-21T19:56:20 <jeremyrubin> Ah
5452019-10-21T19:56:30 <jeremyrubin> because the spend-from issue?
5462019-10-21T19:56:36 <harding> Yeah.
5472019-10-21T19:56:48 <jeremyrubin> I think that might be right.
5482019-10-21T19:58:16 <jeremyrubin> Well
5492019-10-21T19:58:18 <jeremyrubin> No
5502019-10-21T19:58:25 <jeremyrubin> that's not completely true
5512019-10-21T19:58:29 <jeremyrubin> You can still do it
5522019-10-21T19:59:42 <jeremyrubin> It just makes it work less well, especially if someone does low fee rate
5532019-10-21T19:59:51 <jeremyrubin> So you'd want some anyone can spend nodes in the tree
5542019-10-21T20:00:02 <jeremyrubin> for people to be able to replace by fee with high fee txns
5552019-10-21T20:00:19 <jeremyrubin> to bump interior nodes through confirmation
5562019-10-21T20:00:28 <jeremyrubin> which frees up the other half of the tree
5572019-10-21T20:00:55 <jeremyrubin> So you *can* get it to work with the existing stuff
5582019-10-21T20:01:20 <jeremyrubin> It's just much more annoying than coding an exception for these immutable type txns.
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5682019-10-21T20:13:03 <harding> Ancillary, it occurs to me that if you have a large tree of internal nodes and also a few receivers trying to CPFP bump the leaves, they could cause the minimum feerate of the mempool to increase faster than the package feerate of the coshv root node, causing the whole package to be evicted from the mempool.
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5722019-10-21T20:17:58 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] RandyMcMillan reopened pull request #17207: doc: spelling corrections in code comments (master...spelling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17207
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5742019-10-21T20:18:50 <jeremyrubin> Huh. This sounds like a general issue?
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5762019-10-21T20:19:48 <harding> Yeah, I was just thinking that. Maybe I just figured out for myself why we have both a desecendant limit *and* an ancestor limit. :-)
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5782019-10-21T20:26:02 <harding> Oh, goodness, that's probably what sdaftuar was talking about at the beginning of this thread: <sdaftuar> then we later realized when we did mempool eviction that there is a small amount of free-relay possible, up to the size of single descendant package
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5812019-10-21T20:29:52 <harding> jeremyrubin: so reading Suhas's comments earlier in the thread, I think maybe an issue with your proposal is that the package wouldn't be immutable if the receivers could CPFP fee bump their receiving transactions (the leaves). E.g., for each CPFP transaction, there would be a cascade of changes to the package fee through the tree. The mempool could refuse to accept mutable children from outside the tree, but then the users
5822019-10-21T20:29:52 <harding> couldn't fee bump.
5832019-10-21T20:30:25 <jeremyrubin> hm
5842019-10-21T20:30:45 <jeremyrubin> This is why i'm saying that there can be some caching going on within the tree
5852019-10-21T20:30:57 <jeremyrubin> But I see what you mean
5862019-10-21T20:31:08 <jeremyrubin> That a leaf change guarantees log(N) updates through the tree
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5882019-10-21T20:31:20 <jeremyrubin> But I don't care to change the ancestor limit
5892019-10-21T20:31:23 <jeremyrubin> just descendant
5902019-10-21T20:31:28 <jeremyrubin> Which I think makes it OK
5912019-10-21T20:31:38 <jeremyrubin> 20 ancestors is PLENTY
5922019-10-21T20:31:47 <jeremyrubin> 20 descendants is paltry
5932019-10-21T20:32:03 <jeremyrubin> 20 ancestors can cover like 4**20 which is big enuf
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5962019-10-21T20:36:18 <harding> jeremyrubin: I dunno, `getrawmempool true` returns various "descendent*" fields to me, so even though I think you're right that only log(n) entries need their "modified" fees updated, it seems that descendant information might need to be updated too?
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5982019-10-21T20:40:04 <harding> Oh, I guess that's not recursive since it doesn't include the modified rates. Sorry.
5992019-10-21T20:40:23 <jeremyrubin> correct
6002019-10-21T20:40:36 <jeremyrubin> Log N upwards, O(2N) downwards
6012019-10-21T20:40:58 <jeremyrubin> But then it can be worse if the leaf is doing what you said
6022019-10-21T20:41:22 <jeremyrubin> which is why it makes sense maybe, for OP_STB, to have a branched descendants limit
6032019-10-21T20:41:26 <jeremyrubin> descendants depth
6042019-10-21T20:41:29 <jeremyrubin> rather than raw count
6052019-10-21T20:41:46 <jeremyrubin> But I guess theres a question of special casing v.s. generally safe technique
6062019-10-21T20:42:14 <jeremyrubin> Im confident special casing can work but maybe not a general technique to all outputs
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6272019-10-21T21:29:20 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #17211: Allow fundrawtransaction and walletcreatefundedpsbt to take external inputs (master...fundtx-external-inputs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17211
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6552019-10-21T22:16:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #17212: refactor: Remove unused CExt{Pub,}Key (de)serialization methods (master...20191021-refactor-remove_unused_cextkey_and_cextpubkey_serialization) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17212
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6652019-10-21T22:33:11 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #17213: gui: Add Windows taskbar progress (master...win_taskbar_progress) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17213
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6722019-10-21T22:39:15 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyCrookshank closed pull request #17180: gui: Improved tooltip for send amount field (master...sendamounttooltip) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17180
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6832019-10-21T22:57:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyCrookshank reopened pull request #17180: gui: Improved tooltip for send amount field (master...sendamounttooltip) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17180
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