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 14 2020-01-02T00:50:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fjahr opened pull request #17843: wallet: Reset reused transactions cache (master...getbalances) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17843
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145 2020-01-02T11:03:26  <wumpus> heh thanks CubicEarth
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148 2020-01-02T11:06:31  <wumpus> happy 2020 everyone
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151 2020-01-02T11:12:15  <fanquake> wumpus 🎉
152 2020-01-02T11:12:28  <wumpus> lets do my first 'git pull' of the repository this decade
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154 2020-01-02T11:15:07  <fanquake> Watch out for all the copyright headers 🙄
155 2020-01-02T11:16:46  <wumpus> that  causes make / ccache to forget everything resulting in a clean build for the new year!
156 2020-01-02T11:20:24  <fanquake> heh. Looking forward to another decade of bitcoind!
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158 2020-01-02T11:21:33  <wumpus> yes!
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160 2020-01-02T11:22:20  <wumpus> what would be cool to merge as first PR?
161 2020-01-02T11:23:41  <wumpus> #10785 would be nice
162 2020-01-02T11:23:45  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10785 | Serialization improvements by sipa · Pull Request #10785 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
163 2020-01-02T11:24:24  <fanquake> Right now I can probably only tell you what would not be cool to merge
164 2020-01-02T11:24:39  <wumpus> very futuristic to have improved serialization for the new decade
165 2020-01-02T11:24:47  <wumpus> hehe yes
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167 2020-01-02T11:26:35  <sipa> agree! ;)
168 2020-01-02T11:27:45  <fanquake> I'll be very biased, an suggest that #17787 is just a tiny bit "cool"
169 2020-01-02T11:27:47  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17787 | scripts: add MACHO PIE check to security-check.py by fanquake · Pull Request #17787 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
170 2020-01-02T11:28:23  <sipa> MACHO does sound very cool
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173 2020-01-02T11:30:01  <fanquake> Got some pie as well. Sounds like a good deal all round
174 2020-01-02T11:31:17  <wumpus> MACHO PIE
175 2020-01-02T11:32:14  <wumpus> it's good branding for security features
176 2020-01-02T11:35:10  <fanquake> macOS has all the cool flags heh
177 2020-01-02T11:35:12  <fanquake> NOUNDEFS DYLDLINK TWOLEVEL WEAK_DEFINES BINDS_TO_WEAK PIE
178 2020-01-02T11:35:41  <wumpus> switching to macos this year because of the cool flags
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180 2020-01-02T11:36:54  <wumpus> fanquake: any idea about the travis error in that PR? "import configparser" fails in the python tests, seems unrelated
181 2020-01-02T11:37:03  <wumpus> but it is on macos
182 2020-01-02T11:37:10  <fanquake> Just watch out, you might run out of harddrive space if you do that #17827
183 2020-01-02T11:37:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17827 | Blocks directory on macOS uses more disk space than expected · Issue #17827 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
184 2020-01-02T11:37:56  <fanquake> wumpus From what I could see, brew tries to upgrade Python, but fails during the linking step, so I assumed it was related to that. I can have a proper look into it tonight given it's affecting everything.
185 2020-01-02T11:41:34  <wumpus> oh I seee now it fails everywhere
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190 2020-01-02T11:49:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/35fff5be60e8...0655c7a94cc9
191 2020-01-02T11:49:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4ca92dc fanquake: scripts: add MACHO PIE check to security-check.py
192 2020-01-02T11:49:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7c9e821 fanquake: scripts: add MACHO NOUNDEFS check to security-check.py
193 2020-01-02T11:49:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0655c7a Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17787: scripts: add MACHO PIE check to security-check.py
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196 2020-01-02T11:50:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17787: scripts: add MACHO PIE check to security-check.py (master...add_macOS_to_security_check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17787
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206 2020-01-02T12:20:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] emilengler closed pull request #17842: util: Check for curl in Posix PATH (master...2020-01-check-curl-path) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17842
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222 2020-01-02T12:56:20  <elichai2> how do people feel about some re-organizing includes such that we "include only what we use"? (hopefully it will make compilation faster and make it more obvious what parts are still highly connected)
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229 2020-01-02T13:00:10  <fanquake> Related #15442
230 2020-01-02T13:00:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15442 | Running iwyu on Bitcoin Core · Issue #15442 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
231 2020-01-02T13:01:18  <elichai2> ha thanks :) well IWYU itself has a problem with boost. boost isn't built with the IWYU idea in mind
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240 2020-01-02T13:18:25  <elichai2> I assume we still want the `fs.h` separation even though it can increase compile time? (a lot of units only need the path.hpp and not the whole fs)
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273 2020-01-02T15:06:02  <Chris_Stewart_5> Is there a document anywhere on bitcoin core's key handling and storage procedures? Or is this a "read the code" situation?
274 2020-01-02T15:06:59  <sipa> i don't think it's documented anywhere
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277 2020-01-02T15:11:59  <MarcoFalke> Is there a meeting today?
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294 2020-01-02T16:10:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0655c7a94cc9...3f8dbcd65547
295 2020-01-02T16:10:59  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6f6465c John Newbery: scripted-diff: [validation] Rename CheckInputs to CheckInputScripts
296 2020-01-02T16:11:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3bd8db8 John Newbery: [validation] fix comments in CheckInputScripts()
297 2020-01-02T16:11:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3f8dbcd MarcoFalke: Merge #16658: validation: Rename CheckInputs to CheckInputScripts
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300 2020-01-02T16:11:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #16658: validation: Rename CheckInputs to CheckInputScripts (master...2019-08-rename-CheckInputs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16658
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303 2020-01-02T16:12:24  <wumpus> elichai2: yes, please keep fs.h
304 2020-01-02T16:13:13  <wumpus> after filesystem lands in c++ itself and we can use that, we can discuss splitting it up (depending on how the standard library does it), but before that this is supposed to abstract out that particular boost usage
305 2020-01-02T16:14:02  <elichai2> makes sense
306 2020-01-02T16:15:31  <wumpus> (also, having the fs functions in one header is useful for sandboxing platforms that don't have direct file access)
307 2020-01-02T16:15:47  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: I'm okay with doing a meeting today
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309 2020-01-02T16:16:45  <elichai2> MarcoFalke: how do you feel about the `for XXXX` comments IWYU leaves?
310 2020-01-02T16:17:17  <MarcoFalke> elichai2: spammy unless a header is used for 3 things or less
311 2020-01-02T16:17:39  <elichai2> and easily gets out of date
312 2020-01-02T16:17:58  <MarcoFalke> Jup
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315 2020-01-02T16:18:21  <MarcoFalke> I guess most useful would be documentation on how to run it on a single file (e.g. a freshly created file)
316 2020-01-02T16:19:30  <elichai2> that's the easiest actually. but still requires fixing the problems it makes
317 2020-01-02T16:19:57  <elichai2> I want to make a PR showing how the changes look, altough this is something that isn't reviewable easily
318 2020-01-02T16:21:44  <elichai2> where should I document how to use this?
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322 2020-01-02T16:42:57  <MarcoFalke> Maybe in my issue or in our developer docs
323 2020-01-02T16:46:51  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic Vanilla debian Bitcoin Core package, #17343
324 2020-01-02T16:46:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17343 | Meta: Packaging Bitcoin Core as vanilla system package · Issue #17343 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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334 2020-01-02T17:05:33  <sipsorcery> wumpus: In case you didn't already spot it the GitHub Action job is being triggered on every repo action (issue comments etc).
335 2020-01-02T17:06:19  <elichai2> since when github actions working in core? :O
336 2020-01-02T17:06:26  *** sturles has quit IRC
337 2020-01-02T17:07:59  <sipsorcery> elichai2: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17803
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340 2020-01-02T17:11:24  <sipsorcery> not sure why issue comments are triggering the job... the "on: push:" should restrict triggering to commits
341 2020-01-02T17:11:30  <sipsorcery> will try and replicate
342 2020-01-02T17:13:30  <promag> #16963 review/merge ?
343 2020-01-02T17:13:32  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16963 | wallet: Fix unique_ptr usage in boost::signals2 by promag · Pull Request #16963 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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347 2020-01-02T17:39:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #17849: ci: Fix brew python link (master...20200102-travis-brew-python) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17849
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366 2020-01-02T18:22:55  <hebasto> it seems travis is happy with #17849
367 2020-01-02T18:22:56  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17849 | ci: Fix brew python link by hebasto · Pull Request #17849 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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370 2020-01-02T18:28:58  <wumpus> sipsorcery: should I disable it again?
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373 2020-01-02T18:50:14  <sipsorcery> wumpus: yes, it's going to fail on every run at the moment, reason at end of #17803.
374 2020-01-02T18:50:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17803 | ci: Migration from AppVeyor to GitHub Actions · Issue #17803 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
375 2020-01-02T18:51:31  *** aqquadro has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
376 2020-01-02T18:51:45  <jonatack> sipsorcery: wumpus: yes, every review comment seems to be firing off a GH Actions email with a title like "[bitcoin/bitcoin] Run failed:"
377 2020-01-02T18:53:19  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
378 2020-01-02T18:53:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3f8dbcd65547...52900a764c42
379 2020-01-02T18:53:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 87744b1 Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Fix brew python link
380 2020-01-02T18:53:21  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 52900a7 MarcoFalke: Merge #17849: ci: Fix brew python link
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383 2020-01-02T18:53:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17849: ci: Fix brew python link (master...20200102-travis-brew-python) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17849
384 2020-01-02T18:53:50  *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
385 2020-01-02T18:55:42  <sipa> wumpus: what's the status on #17398 ?
386 2020-01-02T18:55:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17398 | build: Update leveldb to 1.22+ by laanwj · Pull Request #17398 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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389 2020-01-02T18:57:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #17669: tests: have coins simulation test also use CCoinsViewDB (master...2019-12-coins-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17669
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391 2020-01-02T18:58:10  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
392 2020-01-02T18:58:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #17669: tests: have coins simulation test also use CCoinsViewDB (master...2019-12-coins-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17669
393 2020-01-02T18:58:12  *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
394 2020-01-02T18:59:51  <wumpus> actions have been disabled again for now
395 2020-01-02T19:00:26  <wumpus> sipa: I think it's ready just needs review/testing
396 2020-01-02T19:00:39  <wumpus> #startmeeting
397 2020-01-02T19:00:39  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Jan  2 19:00:39 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
398 2020-01-02T19:00:39  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
399 2020-01-02T19:00:51  *** gnusha has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
400 2020-01-02T19:01:01  <hebasto> hi
401 2020-01-02T19:01:04  <sipsorcery> hi
402 2020-01-02T19:01:08  <jonatack> hi
403 2020-01-02T19:01:15  <achow101> HI
404 2020-01-02T19:01:24  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr
405 2020-01-02T19:01:26  <wumpus> jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack
406 2020-01-02T19:01:33  <amiti> hi
407 2020-01-02T19:01:36  <MarcoFalke> hi
408 2020-01-02T19:01:39  <kanzure> hi
409 2020-01-02T19:01:41  <moneyball> happy new year everyone
410 2020-01-02T19:02:09  *** promag has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
411 2020-01-02T19:02:16  <promag> hi
412 2020-01-02T19:02:20  <MarcoFalke> travis macOS is fixed thanks to hebasto. I just reset all travis runs. Let me know if I missed one
413 2020-01-02T19:02:22  <wumpus> yes, happy new year everyone
414 2020-01-02T19:02:38  <wumpus> thanks hebasto
415 2020-01-02T19:02:49  <hebasto> nm
416 2020-01-02T19:03:35  <sipa> hi
417 2020-01-02T19:03:38  <wumpus> one proposed topic this week by MarcoFalke : Vanilla debian Bitcoin Core package, #17343
418 2020-01-02T19:03:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17343 | Meta: Packaging Bitcoin Core as vanilla system package · Issue #17343 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
419 2020-01-02T19:03:59  <wumpus> anything else to discuss?
420 2020-01-02T19:04:15  <luke-jr> HNY
421 2020-01-02T19:04:47  <wumpus> #topic High priroity for review
422 2020-01-02T19:04:48  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
423 2020-01-02T19:04:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #17669: tests: have coins simulation test also use CCoinsViewDB (master...2019-12-coins-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17669
424 2020-01-02T19:04:49  *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
425 2020-01-02T19:04:49  <sipa> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. HNY may refer to: Happy New Year (2014 film) Hengyang Nanyue Airport, IATA code HNY.
426 2020-01-02T19:05:04  <gleb> Hi
427 2020-01-02T19:05:08  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
428 2020-01-02T19:05:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #17669: tests: have coins simulation test also use CCoinsViewDB (master...2019-12-coins-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17669
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430 2020-01-02T19:05:13  <wumpus> 10 blockers (!), 7 chasing concept ACK https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
431 2020-01-02T19:05:15  <luke-jr> sipa: it has to be a film? O.o
432 2020-01-02T19:05:20  <wumpus> better get to reviewing :)
433 2020-01-02T19:05:56  <sipa> new year's resolution: review more PRs (and also, 1080p)
434 2020-01-02T19:06:36  <wumpus> would be nice to get #10785 in soon, it's about time, it's from 2017
435 2020-01-02T19:06:39  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10785 | Serialization improvements by sipa · Pull Request #10785 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
436 2020-01-02T19:06:58  <wumpus> I definitely wouldn't have the patience to keep rebasing a PR for that long
437 2020-01-02T19:07:00  <MarcoFalke> sipa, review in 1080 pixel instead of  360 pixel?
438 2020-01-02T19:07:11  <sipa> wumpus: making a minimal initial PR with just 2 commits
439 2020-01-02T19:07:31  <jonatack> i think kallewoof wanted to move #16411 from chasing concept acks over to high-priority
440 2020-01-02T19:07:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16411 | BIP-325: Signet support by kallewoof · Pull Request #16411 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
441 2020-01-02T19:07:36  <wumpus> sipa: oh, it grew over time
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443 2020-01-02T19:07:48  <wumpus> jonatack: ok
444 2020-01-02T19:08:08  <sipa> wumpus: not really, and the recent protobuf purging simplified it a bit, actually
445 2020-01-02T19:08:19  <sipa> but still, it seems there is little appetite to review the whole thing at once
446 2020-01-02T19:08:55  <sipa> in any case, concept ack on moving #16411 from chasing concept ack to blocker
447 2020-01-02T19:08:58  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16411 | BIP-325: Signet support by kallewoof · Pull Request #16411 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
448 2020-01-02T19:09:02  <wumpus> well tons of people reviewed it
449 2020-01-02T19:09:23  <wumpus> looking at number of comments at least
450 2020-01-02T19:09:42  <sipa> many ryanofsky reviews mostly, iirc :)
451 2020-01-02T19:10:03  <wumpus> ah couldn't really see due to github comment hiding gymnastics
452 2020-01-02T19:10:34  <luke-jr> XD
453 2020-01-02T19:10:57  <wumpus> #topic Vanilla debian Bitcoin Core package (MarcoFalke)
454 2020-01-02T19:10:58  <sipa> must be heavy on their poor Ruby infrastructure
455 2020-01-02T19:12:08  <sipa> MarcoFalke: ^
456 2020-01-02T19:12:08  <MarcoFalke> So packaging is still an unsolved problem for Linux distros. We stopped maintaining the Ubuntu PPA due to numerous problems and provided flatpak and snapcraft packages.
457 2020-01-02T19:12:27  <wumpus> oh, the ppa is no longer maintained?
458 2020-01-02T19:12:28  <MarcoFalke> Though, that uncovered other issues
459 2020-01-02T19:12:28  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: Matt stopped maintaining the PPA. I didn't.
460 2020-01-02T19:12:39  <luke-jr> wumpus: the bitcoin/bitcoin one Matt used to have is unmaintained now
461 2020-01-02T19:13:00  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: There are still issues with the ppa, even if maintained.
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463 2020-01-02T19:13:26  <wumpus> yes, if it was just a matter of maintenance we could try to find someone else to do it
464 2020-01-02T19:13:26  <achow101> what are the issues?
465 2020-01-02T19:13:36  <luke-jr> IMO flatpak/snapcraft aren't comparable, but go on
466 2020-01-02T19:13:49  <luke-jr> (FWIW, my PPA is at https://launchpad.net/~luke-jr/+archive/ubuntu/bitcoincore )
467 2020-01-02T19:14:38  <wumpus> yes, what are ths issues?
468 2020-01-02T19:14:39  <MarcoFalke> achow101: On the top of my head: * not reproducible builds, no way to verify what happened on the build servers. * People installing the ubuntu ppa on non-ubuntu distros (https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian )
469 2020-01-02T19:14:42  <wumpus> except non-determinism
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471 2020-01-02T19:14:53  <wumpus> yes I mean non-reproducible
472 2020-01-02T19:15:05  <jamesob> hi
473 2020-01-02T19:15:07  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
474 2020-01-02T19:15:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #17850: Serialization improvements (minimal initial commits) (master...202001_noncastserial) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17850
475 2020-01-02T19:15:09  <luke-jr> ok, so no real issues? :P
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478 2020-01-02T19:15:22  <luke-jr> (non-determinism isn't an issue IMO since it's built by the distro co)
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480 2020-01-02T19:15:27  <wumpus> is there a ppa-like system for debian?
481 2020-01-02T19:15:39  <luke-jr> wumpus: you can manually add repos, but nothing as easy as PPA AFAIK :/
482 2020-01-02T19:15:49  <MarcoFalke> * The ppa is also updated only after the OS has been released, so upgrading the Ubuntu might lead to issues
483 2020-01-02T19:15:51  <luke-jr> QuickBuild.io provides PPAs for Debian, but in my experience they don't work :/
484 2020-01-02T19:16:05  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I don'
485 2020-01-02T19:16:09  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I don't understand what you mean there
486 2020-01-02T19:16:16  <MarcoFalke> * The ppa only supports one version of Bitcoin Core, so  (not) updating Bitcoin Core might lead to issues
487 2020-01-02T19:16:51  <wumpus> I'm interested in that problem, yes, auto-update kind of sucks for bitcoin
488 2020-01-02T19:17:11  <wumpus> it should be a user decision to upgrade
489 2020-01-02T19:17:11  <luke-jr> auto-update is the entire point of PPAs, though
490 2020-01-02T19:17:13  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: The ppa was only compiled for (let's say Ubuntu 18.04 after it has been released. I.e. Apr 18) So it is harder to install it for the Ubuntu Beta?
491 2020-01-02T19:17:22  <wumpus> could we do better?
492 2020-01-02T19:17:34  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: not if we update the PPA timely
493 2020-01-02T19:17:39  <wumpus> (apart from having a new package for every new release0
494 2020-01-02T19:17:40  <jamesob> Wouldn't it be better just to provide a shell script that people can curl that builds from source than trying to cater to bad distro build infra?
495 2020-01-02T19:18:00  <luke-jr> jamesob: eww, no
496 2020-01-02T19:18:15  <achow101> MarcoFalke: is your suggestion that we also build debs and upload them to bitcoincore.org?
497 2020-01-02T19:18:16  <wumpus> I mean ,we already have binary builds for linux
498 2020-01-02T19:18:22  <wumpus> they should work on most distros
499 2020-01-02T19:18:28  <wumpus> definitely debian and fedora
500 2020-01-02T19:18:35  <luke-jr> I've been keeping an archive of PPA-generated .debs locally FWIW
501 2020-01-02T19:18:52  <jamesob> Yeah, so what's wrong with saying "ppa build infra isn't up to our standards, so go to these other places"
502 2020-01-02T19:18:54  <luke-jr> wumpus: they only work on Ubuntu in my experience; at least not on Gentoo
503 2020-01-02T19:18:56  <wumpus> the only exception really is non-glibc
504 2020-01-02T19:19:01  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Are you volunteering to update the PPA timely for the full matrix of distros/version of Bitcoin Core?
505 2020-01-02T19:19:08  <luke-jr> jamesob: I see no problem w/ the build infra
506 2020-01-02T19:19:28  <jamesob> didn't someone say the buids aren't reproducible?
507 2020-01-02T19:19:31  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I can only update the PPA for Launchpad-supported distros, but yes, I have been and intend to continue updating it
508 2020-01-02T19:19:37  <luke-jr> jamesob: neither is the rest of the OS
509 2020-01-02T19:19:57  <luke-jr> jamesob: PPAs are Canonical built for Canonical distros
510 2020-01-02T19:20:17  <wumpus> so anyway: what is the proposal here?
511 2020-01-02T19:20:28  <MarcoFalke> And also, PPAs are not friendly for new users (novice linux users). E.g. I avoid them because it is easy to break the whole system with them.
512 2020-01-02T19:20:39  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: My proposal is to have vanilla packages
513 2020-01-02T19:20:46  <wumpus> how would you do that?
514 2020-01-02T19:20:47  <MarcoFalke> in the vanilla package manager of the distro
515 2020-01-02T19:21:00  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: we explicitly advise distros NOT to do that..
516 2020-01-02T19:21:04  <wumpus> that's up to the distros, right?
517 2020-01-02T19:21:09  <luke-jr> also, that has the same problems as the PPA?
518 2020-01-02T19:21:12  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Why?
519 2020-01-02T19:21:38  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: 1) their LevelDB packages don't meet consensus-safety standards, and they will not use embedded copies
520 2020-01-02T19:22:01  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: 2) they won't deploy even minor fixes to stable versions
521 2020-01-02T19:22:04  <fanquake> Hi
522 2020-01-02T19:22:25  * luke-jr looks up our advisement to see if there's anything else
523 2020-01-02T19:22:49  <MarcoFalke> 1) We release versions of Bitcoin Core with different versions of leveldb. So the versioning shouldnt' be an issue. If the packaging is an issue, it can be changed, maybe
524 2020-01-02T19:23:18  <wumpus> bleh, not using the embedded leveldb would really be inadvisable
525 2020-01-02T19:23:27  <luke-jr> for reference, here was our 2013 advisement: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/20130723-linux-distribution-packaging-and-bitcoin.md.asc
526 2020-01-02T19:23:53  <MarcoFalke> 2) Releasing new versions can be done with "backports", like it is done with clang-8 on Bionic Ubuntu and security fixes are alwasy deployed
527 2020-01-02T19:24:07  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: backports are no less trouble than PPAs
528 2020-01-02T19:24:18  <luke-jr> PPAs are better because users already have them
529 2020-01-02T19:24:25  <luke-jr> (for the initial install)
530 2020-01-02T19:24:49  <luke-jr> also, the existence of bad PPAs doesn't mean *our* PPAs need to be bad; and not using a PPA ourselves doesn't make the bad ones go away
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532 2020-01-02T19:25:34  <MarcoFalke> PPAs are bad pratice in general
533 2020-01-02T19:25:55  <luke-jr> they aren't
534 2020-01-02T19:26:32  <wumpus> I don't think PPAs are bad practice in general, not on ubuntu at least, installing them to other distros like debian is obviously bad
535 2020-01-02T19:26:43  <MarcoFalke> And the bitcoin Core PPA is being used against best practices, so providing one is like encouraging those bad practices
536 2020-01-02T19:27:15  <sipa> MarcoFalke: what do you mean by that (just curious, i know very little about them)
537 2020-01-02T19:27:16  <luke-jr> yes, PPAs target a specific distro/release and shouldn't be used on others
538 2020-01-02T19:27:16  <wumpus> in any case, I think we need to be really careful to reconsider the advisement
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540 2020-01-02T19:28:06  <wumpus> we don't want zillions of nodes running years-old software by accident, not because they want to but just because there's no upgrade path
541 2020-01-02T19:28:20  <MarcoFalke> sipa: PPAs are usually compiled for a specific OS version and might break things if installed on a different OS version. E.g. install an Bionic ppa on Ubuntu 19.10 or even Debian
542 2020-01-02T19:28:22  <sipa> agreed
543 2020-01-02T19:28:25  <luke-jr> distro packages are likely to end up with *new* users installing obsolete versions
544 2020-01-02T19:29:16  <sipa> luke-jr: perhaps - but is that really the alternative? given things like snap/flatpak?
545 2020-01-02T19:29:21  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: at least the ppa-add script avoids that, it will only add the ppa for the release that a user has
546 2020-01-02T19:29:42  <MarcoFalke> Ok, so if the preference is to stick with PPAs, we should maintain them
547 2020-01-02T19:29:47  <luke-jr> sipa: that's the topic ;)
548 2020-01-02T19:30:14  <sipa> luke-jr: i think a reasonable conclusion could be that for our use case both distro packages and PPAs are bad
549 2020-01-02T19:30:24  <luke-jr> sipa: PPAs aren't bad though.. :/
550 2020-01-02T19:30:37  <luke-jr> yes, they're targetted, but that's kinda the point
551 2020-01-02T19:30:38  <sipa> luke-jr: i said for our use case
552 2020-01-02T19:30:40  <wumpus> I'm not convinced PPAs are really bad
553 2020-01-02T19:30:52  <sipa> if they result in people running old unupgradable versions
554 2020-01-02T19:31:00  <luke-jr> sipa: they don't
555 2020-01-02T19:31:03  <wumpus> though I prefer people to use the deterministic binaries from bitcoincore.org
556 2020-01-02T19:31:07  <luke-jr> PPAs can be updated for every release
557 2020-01-02T19:31:20  <wumpus> but distro packages wouldn't improve that
558 2020-01-02T19:31:27  <luke-jr> every Core release*
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560 2020-01-02T19:31:49  <MarcoFalke> Well, some people use curl $latest_release, so they end up with no upgrade path through $package_manager update
561 2020-01-02T19:31:57  <luke-jr> sipa: for example, my PPA currently has 0.19.0.1 for every supported Ubuntu version; when 0.19.1 is out, it will get that for all versions too
562 2020-01-02T19:31:58  <wumpus> no, PPAs (at least used to) be updated with every release of core
563 2020-01-02T19:32:10  <sipa> ok
564 2020-01-02T19:32:19  <MarcoFalke> So I don't really like the bitcoincore.org/bin/* either
565 2020-01-02T19:32:32  <wumpus> the bitcoin/bitcoin ones are unmaintained at the moment but that's not a fault in PPA
566 2020-01-02T19:32:52  <wumpus> well, nothing is ideal
567 2020-01-02T19:32:56  <luke-jr> I suppose I could update bitcoin/bitcoin if Matt wants to give me access - I just figured it made more sense to retire it
568 2020-01-02T19:33:03  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: True :)
569 2020-01-02T19:33:17  <luke-jr> perhaps it should be updated with a .txt package saying to switch to another source
570 2020-01-02T19:33:32  <wumpus> packaging bitcoin is a difficult issue
571 2020-01-02T19:33:41  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: It should be maintained in https://github.com/bitcoin-core/packaging
572 2020-01-02T19:33:58  <luke-jr> (although it might be rude to effectively delete from users' PCs on an update)
573 2020-01-02T19:34:06  <MarcoFalke> There is a debian subfolder, but no one has touched it in years: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/packaging/tree/master/debian
574 2020-01-02T19:34:06  <achow101> I'm pretty sure lots of instructions point to the bitcoin/bitcoin ppa
575 2020-01-02T19:34:07  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: that's the source code, not the PPA
576 2020-01-02T19:34:18  <achow101> and it would screw with people's existing installs from it
577 2020-01-02T19:34:20  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I *think* I'm using it as-is still\
578 2020-01-02T19:34:38  <wumpus> I think it would be better if someone took over maintenance of the current one instead of retire it
579 2020-01-02T19:34:50  <luke-jr> maybe deleting the bitcoin/bitcoin PPA will work best - it won't uninstall anything, and will give the user an error when they update repos
580 2020-01-02T19:35:09  <MarcoFalke> At least two people should have access (bus factor) or at least a way to reset the credentials
581 2020-01-02T19:35:11  <wumpus> that's also not very friendly
582 2020-01-02T19:35:23  <wumpus> yes
583 2020-01-02T19:35:27  <MarcoFalke> And we should have documentation how to maintain it
584 2020-01-02T19:35:36  <luke-jr> well, Matt isn't here, so we need to defer that discussion I think
585 2020-01-02T19:35:56  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I have a gitian yml that updates it for me; I suppose I should add that to the packaging repo
586 2020-01-02T19:36:05  <luke-jr> (it doesn't generate any files, just uploads)
587 2020-01-02T19:36:41  <wumpus> yes, would be good to have the instructions public
588 2020-01-02T19:37:48  <wumpus> any other topics?
589 2020-01-02T19:38:37  <wumpus> #endmeeting
590 2020-01-02T19:38:37  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Jan  2 19:38:37 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
591 2020-01-02T19:38:37  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-01-02-19.00.html
592 2020-01-02T19:38:37  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-01-02-19.00.txt
593 2020-01-02T19:38:37  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-01-02-19.00.log.html
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611 2020-01-02T20:39:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/52900a764c42...190a4051fde7
612 2020-01-02T20:39:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4d88c3d Wladimir J. van der Laan: net: Log to net category for exceptions in ProcessMessages
613 2020-01-02T20:39:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4bdd68f Wladimir J. van der Laan: Add missing typeinfo includes
614 2020-01-02T20:39:36  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 190a405 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17762: net: Log to net category for exceptions in ProcessMessages
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617 2020-01-02T20:39:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17762: net: Log to net category for exceptions in ProcessMessages (master...2019_12_network_exceptions) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17762
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625 2020-01-02T21:01:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #17851: tests: Add std::to_string to list of locale dependent functions (master...locale-dependence-of-to_string) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17851
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656 2020-01-02T22:52:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/190a4051fde7...17e14ac92fce
657 2020-01-02T22:52:55  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6666ef1 MarcoFalke: test: Properly document blockinfo size in miner_tests
658 2020-01-02T22:52:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faa92a2 MarcoFalke: rpc: Remove mempool global from miner
659 2020-01-02T22:52:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 17e14ac MarcoFalke: Merge #17781: rpc: Remove mempool global from miner
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662 2020-01-02T22:53:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17781: rpc: Remove mempool global from miner (master...1912-mempoolMiner) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17781
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