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222020-03-26T01:52:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] pierreN opened pull request #18433: serialization: prevent int overflow for big Coin::nHeight (master...fix-coin-serialize) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18433
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462020-03-26T03:52:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #18434: tests: add a test-security target and run it in CI (master...run_security_check_ci) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18434
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1142020-03-26T08:07:50 <aj> fjahr: you writing a test for wtxid relay already?
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1212020-03-26T08:22:53 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2e97d8001705...d8ce27ff9f80
1222020-03-26T08:22:54 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f709ad0 Hennadii Stepanov: build: Fix libevent linking for bench_bitcoin binary
1232020-03-26T08:22:54 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cd04286 Hennadii Stepanov: build: Fix typo in EVENT_CFLAGS variable
1242020-03-26T08:22:55 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d8ce27f fanquake: Merge #18397: build: Fix libevent linking for bench_bitcoin binary
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1272020-03-26T08:23:12 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #18397: build: Fix libevent linking for bench_bitcoin binary (master...20200321-libevent) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18397
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1422020-03-26T09:05:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #18436: [WIP] [do not merge] ci: Fix brew in Travis (master...20200326-travis-brew) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18436
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1442020-03-26T09:16:19 <hebasto> fanquake: it seems #18436 fixes macos native build on travis, but not sure if this is the best approach: it reverts changes of previous bugfix
1452020-03-26T09:16:21 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18436 | ci: Fix brew in Travis by hebasto · Pull Request #18436 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1462020-03-26T09:18:09 <fanquake> hebasto: is whatever the previous bugfix fixed still relevant?
1472020-03-26T09:18:28 <hebasto> not sure
1482020-03-26T09:19:16 <fanquake> Might also be worth looking at using "update: true" and a package list in travis.yml rather than all the custom logic we seem to have to update homebrew.
1492020-03-26T09:19:33 <fanquake> i.e https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/installing-dependencies#installing-packages-on-macos
1502020-03-26T09:20:38 <hebasto> I'll look into it.
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1522020-03-26T09:20:55 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d8ce27ff9f80...e99ca783cd2d
1532020-03-26T09:20:55 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1f97b69 Harris: build: remove double LIBBITCOIN_SERVER from bench-Makefile
1542020-03-26T09:20:56 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e99ca78 fanquake: Merge #18429: build: remove double LIBBITCOIN_SERVER from bench-Makefile
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1572020-03-26T09:21:15 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #18429: build: remove double LIBBITCOIN_SERVER from bench-Makefile (master...bench-makefile) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18429
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1782020-03-26T10:18:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #18437: util: Detect posix_fallocate() instead of assuming (master...posix_fallocate) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18437
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1832020-03-26T10:31:15 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #18438: [WIP] ci: Use Homebrew addon on native macOS (master...20200326-brew-addon) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18438
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1862020-03-26T10:33:23 <fanquake> hebasto: can you close the original PR, or combine the new changes into it
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1892020-03-26T10:40:09 <hebasto> fanquake: sure, just after tests pass, if you don't mind
1902020-03-26T10:40:40 <fanquake> sure
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1962020-03-26T10:53:30 <hebasto> fanquake: brew reports that libtool, boost, qt and python3 are skipping to install as they are up-to-date. Should we still explicitly tell Travis to install them?
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1982020-03-26T10:55:10 <fanquake> I donât think thatâs necessary. If they are up to date, and Travis is checks each run that should be fine.
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2002020-03-26T11:03:07 <hebasto> it seems we need make travis to log versions of the packages that are skipped by homebrew...
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2182020-03-26T11:07:43 <hebasto> fanquake: on macOS python's "zmq" and homebrew's "zmq" do the same things? or python package for tests only?
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2212020-03-26T11:09:02 <fanquake> The python package is just for tests
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2352020-03-26T11:33:59 <hebasto> fanquake: 18438 is ready to review
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2452020-03-26T12:03:13 <fanquake> hebasto: thanks, will take a look
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2552020-03-26T12:37:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #18436: ci: Fix brew in Travis (master...20200326-travis-brew) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18436
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2682020-03-26T13:01:44 <fjahr> aj: yes, but got sidetracked before I could finish it. Let me try to push it today.
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2722020-03-26T13:12:13 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e99ca783cd2d...f3a91ab0edc7
2732020-03-26T13:12:14 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 596c627 Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Fix brew in Travis
2742020-03-26T13:12:15 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 25c8b73 Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Use Homebrew addon on native macOS
2752020-03-26T13:12:15 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f3a91ab MarcoFalke: Merge #18438: ci: Use Homebrew addon on native macOS
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2782020-03-26T13:12:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18438: ci: Use Homebrew addon on native macOS (master...20200326-brew-addon) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18438
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2802020-03-26T13:15:12 <MarcoFalke> So ci should be fixed, but to re-run failed builds a close-reopen is needed :(
2812020-03-26T13:15:41 * fanquake summons drahtbot
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2862020-03-26T14:01:23 <MarcoFalke> provoostenator: ^
2872020-03-26T14:01:34 <MarcoFalke> instagibbs: ^
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2892020-03-26T14:01:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #17509: gui: save and load PSBT (master...2019/11/gui-psbt-save) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17509
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2922020-03-26T14:01:56 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #17509: gui: save and load PSBT (master...2019/11/gui-psbt-save) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17509
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2952020-03-26T14:12:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #15704: Move Win32 defines to configure.ac to ensure they are globally defined (master...win32_defines_globally) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15704
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2982020-03-26T14:12:22 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #15704: Move Win32 defines to configure.ac to ensure they are globally defined (master...win32_defines_globally) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15704
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3182020-03-26T14:40:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #18439: doc: Add release notes for pr18331 (master...20200326-18331-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18439
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3252020-03-26T14:56:05 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #18439: doc: Add release notes for pr18331 (master...20200326-18331-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18439
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3542020-03-26T15:56:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f3a91ab0edc7...23991ee53af2
3552020-03-26T15:56:36 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d831831 Luke Dashjr: lockedpool: When possible, use madvise to avoid including sensitive inform...
3562020-03-26T15:56:37 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 23991ee Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #15600: lockedpool: When possible, use madvise to avoid including se...
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3592020-03-26T15:58:06 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #15600: lockedpool: When possible, use madvise to avoid including sensitive information in core dumps (master...lockedpool_dontdump) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15600
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3612020-03-26T15:58:55 <wumpus> is #16463 a feature?
3622020-03-26T15:58:57 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16463 | [BIP 174] Implement serialization support for GLOBAL_XPUB field. by achow101 · Pull Request #16463 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3642020-03-26T15:59:16 <wumpus> (if so it should probably be moved to 0.21)
3652020-03-26T15:59:57 <wumpus> I'm not sure on a few things that are marked 0.20 tbh https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A0.20.0
3662020-03-26T16:00:32 <wumpus> POWER support at leaast sounds like a feature too, so does trying to keep connections through a restart
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3692020-03-26T16:08:04 <jonatack_> arguably not necessary for 0.20, but #18312 is code removal for a 0.19 deprecation
3702020-03-26T16:08:07 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18312 | wallet: remove deprecated fee bumping by totalFee by jonatack · Pull Request #18312 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3772020-03-26T16:20:06 <achow101> wumpus: 16463 is a feature
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3792020-03-26T16:26:09 <wumpus> achow101: thanks
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3812020-03-26T16:27:02 <wumpus> jonatack_: nice cleanup
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3832020-03-26T16:32:24 <jonatack_> wumpus: thanks
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3862020-03-26T16:36:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/23991ee53af2...94d3063c93b2
3872020-03-26T16:36:04 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 41ff499 Sebastian Falbesoner: script: fix SCRIPT_ERR_SIG_PUSHONLY error string
3882020-03-26T16:36:05 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 94d3063 MarcoFalke: Merge #18412: script: fix SCRIPT_ERR_SIG_PUSHONLY error string
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3912020-03-26T16:36:24 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18412: script: fix SCRIPT_ERR_SIG_PUSHONLY error string (master...20200323-fix-script-err-sig-pushonly-error-message) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18412
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4022020-03-26T17:07:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #18441: ci: Remove misplaced comments from folded block scalar (master...20200326-arm-yml) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18441
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4072020-03-26T17:11:12 <luke-jr> wumpus: POWER support has no effect on non-POWER builds tho?
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4122020-03-26T17:35:17 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/94d3063c93b2...694f4cbd7853
4132020-03-26T17:35:18 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a6d1ab8 Jon Atack: test: update bumpfee testing from totalFee to fee_rate
4142020-03-26T17:35:18 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bd05f96 Jon Atack: test: delete wallet_bumpfee_totalfee_deprecation.py
4152020-03-26T17:35:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e347cfa Jon Atack: rpc: remove deprecated totalFee arg from RPC bumpfee
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4182020-03-26T17:35:37 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #18312: wallet: remove deprecated fee bumping by totalFee (master...rpc-bumpfee-remove-deprecated-totalFee) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18312
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4232020-03-26T17:49:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #18323: cli: cleanup logic for HTTP error codes (master...nifty/http-nit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18323
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4252020-03-26T17:52:18 <wumpus> luke-jr: I guess that *should* be true, though there are some changes in that PR (like build system) that might potentially affect other platforms a bit. No strong opinion on including it or not for 0.20 though, given that it gathers enough ACKs
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4282020-03-26T18:00:11 <luke-jr> ah, right depsâ¦
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4332020-03-26T18:06:30 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/694f4cbd7853...7f9dedb22dcd
4342020-03-26T18:06:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e41e46c Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Remove misplaced comments from folded block scalar
4352020-03-26T18:06:31 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7f9dedb MarcoFalke: Merge #18441: ci: Remove misplaced comments from folded block scalar
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4382020-03-26T18:06:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18441: ci: Remove misplaced comments from folded block scalar (master...20200326-arm-yml) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18441
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4452020-03-26T18:39:44 <jonasschnelli> #proposedmeetingtopic macOS notarization decision
4462020-03-26T18:42:54 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: remember meetings aren't for decisions :p
4472020-03-26T18:43:14 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: decision for a direction? :-)
4482020-03-26T18:44:01 <jonasschnelli> But yeah. Maybe we can call the proposed topic more an update on the consequences of notarization
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4532020-03-26T18:55:00 <instagibbs> #18388 has 6 ACKs
4542020-03-26T18:55:03 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18388 | Make VerifyWitnessProgram use a Span stack by sipa · Pull Request #18388 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4552020-03-26T18:55:24 <wumpus> instagibbs: good to know
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4612020-03-26T18:57:59 <luke-jr> hopefully we can avoid it need to rebase for a week :P
4622020-03-26T18:58:00 <jonasschnelli> instagibbs: thanks. I guess that can be merged after the 0.20 split-off
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4642020-03-26T18:58:28 <instagibbs> oh yeah that
4652020-03-26T18:58:29 <jonasschnelli> Or wait. Is has the 0.20 milestone.
4662020-03-26T18:58:37 <instagibbs> it's not a "Feature"
4672020-03-26T18:58:39 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: why?
4682020-03-26T18:58:41 <instagibbs> I can't recall policy
4692020-03-26T18:58:51 <luke-jr> instagibbs: refactors are even less backportable than features :P
4702020-03-26T18:59:08 <instagibbs> luke-jr, i didn't say to backport?
4712020-03-26T18:59:12 <luke-jr> is there a reason we don't branch at feature freeze?
4722020-03-26T18:59:18 <jonasschnelli> is it a bugfix?
4732020-03-26T18:59:24 <wumpus> I added the 0.20 milestone because it's ready for merge, it can go in for 0.20
4742020-03-26T18:59:25 <instagibbs> just a refactor
4752020-03-26T18:59:31 <luke-jr> instagibbs: after feature freeze, it's a backport to merge it, even if it doesn't require a new branch
4762020-03-26T18:59:39 <wumpus> refactors can go in after the feature freeze
4772020-03-26T18:59:52 <wumpus> only after the branch-off (~next week) it's bugfixes only
4782020-03-26T19:00:08 <wumpus> #startmeeting
4792020-03-26T19:00:08 <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 26 19:00:08 2020 UTC. The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
4802020-03-26T19:00:08 <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4812020-03-26T19:00:10 <jnewbery> hi
4822020-03-26T19:00:17 <emilengler> hi
4832020-03-26T19:00:18 <sipsorcery> hi
4842020-03-26T19:00:19 <promag> hi
4852020-03-26T19:00:20 <achow101> hi
4862020-03-26T19:00:20 <kanzure> hi
4872020-03-26T19:00:23 <hebasto> hi
4882020-03-26T19:00:31 <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr
4892020-03-26T19:00:33 <wumpus> jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55
4902020-03-26T19:00:34 <luke-jr> ih
4912020-03-26T19:00:41 <jonasschnelli> hi
4922020-03-26T19:00:45 <fjahr> hi
4932020-03-26T19:00:50 <luke-jr> wumpus: 3-15 says " (bug fixes only until release)"
4942020-03-26T19:01:05 <amiti> hi
4952020-03-26T19:01:05 <instagibbs> luke-jr, sorry link?
4962020-03-26T19:01:10 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17432
4972020-03-26T19:01:25 <wumpus> I'm okay with merging that one before 0.20.0 anyhow
4982020-03-26T19:01:38 * luke-jr shrugs
4992020-03-26T19:02:06 *** Krellan_ has quit IRC
5002020-03-26T19:02:24 <wumpus> one suggested meeting topic for today: macOS notarization decision (jonasschnelli)
5012020-03-26T19:02:30 <promag> #18160 too? X)
5022020-03-26T19:02:33 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18160 | gui: Avoid Wallet::GetBalance in WalletModel::pollBalanceChanged by promag · Pull Request #18160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5032020-03-26T19:03:01 <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
5042020-03-26T19:03:07 <jonatack> hi
5052020-03-26T19:03:41 <jeremyrubin> hi
5062020-03-26T19:03:59 <wumpus> promag: added 0.20 milestone
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5082020-03-26T19:04:35 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 8 blockers, 2 bugfixes, 6 chasing concept ACK
5092020-03-26T19:05:23 <wumpus> alternatively, everything on the 0.20.0 milestone: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestones/0.20.0 (includes issues and PRs)
5102020-03-26T19:05:57 <fjahr> maybe #18000 for chasing concept ACK? :)
5112020-03-26T19:05:59 <promag> wumpus: ty, if Luke is ok with it ofc
5122020-03-26T19:05:59 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18000 | Index for UTXO Set Statistics by fjahr · Pull Request #18000 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5132020-03-26T19:06:57 <luke-jr> promag: ?
5142020-03-26T19:07:05 <wumpus> fjahr: added
5152020-03-26T19:07:12 <fjahr> wumpus: ty
5162020-03-26T19:08:17 <promag> luke-jr: because of bugfix only policy
5172020-03-26T19:08:46 <wumpus> I think #17428 is too much of a feature to still go in 0.20
5182020-03-26T19:08:49 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17428 | p2p: Try to preserve outbound block-relay-only connections during restart by hebasto · Pull Request #17428 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5192020-03-26T19:09:12 <luke-jr> promag: IMO it matters a lot less before rc1
5202020-03-26T19:09:21 <wumpus> but people may disagree on that
5212020-03-26T19:10:11 <wumpus> anyone with an opinion whether preserve outbound should be in 0.20?
5222020-03-26T19:11:15 <luke-jr> I haven't looked at it since it had that security issue; will look again after meeting
5232020-03-26T19:11:28 <jonasschnelli> feature; missed the deadline. No need to rush it into 0.20?
5242020-03-26T19:11:33 <wumpus> ok if not, I'm moving it to the 0.21
5252020-03-26T19:11:39 <hebasto> agree
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5272020-03-26T19:12:54 <instagibbs> it's already in 0.19 so it's not a regression of any sort at least(IIRC)
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5292020-03-26T19:13:28 <wumpus> right, it would have been nice to have, but agree it's not a good idea to rush it in
5302020-03-26T19:13:48 <wumpus> it could be considered for backporting to 0.20.1 when it lands I guess
5312020-03-26T19:14:46 <wumpus> #topic macOS notarization (jonasschnelli)
5322020-03-26T19:14:54 <jonasschnelli> #18187
5332020-03-26T19:14:57 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18187 | Add macOS notarization (including stapling) by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #18187 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5342020-03-26T19:15:23 <jonasschnelli> The problem is, when we do notarize the macOS versions, it creates a tcp check connection with apples servers
5352020-03-26T19:15:30 <jonasschnelli> Which is kinda a no-go IMO
5362020-03-26T19:15:57 <jonasschnelli> So the question is, do we want to help newby users by not needing to right-click-open the app, but reduce pricavy, ... or focus on higher provacy
5372020-03-26T19:16:25 <jonasschnelli> I personally think preserving privacy has the higher focus right now
5382020-03-26T19:16:40 <jonasschnelli> See this comment: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18187#issuecomment-592453829
5392020-03-26T19:16:42 <wumpus> so it won't do the TCP check for notarization if it's not notarized?
5402020-03-26T19:16:54 <jonasschnelli> Yes. It won't
5412020-03-26T19:17:18 <jonasschnelli> (though you either have to right-click open the app or disable the security feature)
5422020-03-26T19:17:26 <wumpus> I think I'd slightly prefer to err on the side of privacy then
5432020-03-26T19:18:07 <jonasschnelli> I think it make sense to "deposit" the possibility to notarize until apple enforces it or users really demand it
5442020-03-26T19:18:17 <achow101> I thought the notarization could be stapled which would prevent the phone home
5452020-03-26T19:18:18 <luke-jr> I agree with wumpus
5462020-03-26T19:18:29 <jonasschnelli> achow101: it still does
5472020-03-26T19:18:33 <jonasschnelli> I tested it
5482020-03-26T19:18:33 <luke-jr> achow101: apparently it still checks for revocations
5492020-03-26T19:18:39 <achow101> that's a shame
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5522020-03-26T19:19:09 <jonasschnelli> achow101: With stapling, you can use it offline... but if you online, it still checks the validity
5532020-03-26T19:19:24 <luke-jr> which isn't entirely unreasonable, but IMO should go over Tor if forced; but good luck convincing Apple
5542020-03-26T19:19:47 <hebasto> could we maintain both versions?
5552020-03-26T19:20:00 <luke-jr> hmm
5562020-03-26T19:20:03 <cfields> Checking for revocations implies that it could be revoked by someone other than us. IMO that's reason enough.
5572020-03-26T19:20:05 <jonasschnelli> We could... as long as the hashes are different...
5582020-03-26T19:20:13 <jonasschnelli> but probably not worth it and will lead to more confusion
5592020-03-26T19:20:20 <luke-jr> is there a benefit to having the signed-but-not-notarised variant at all?
5602020-03-26T19:20:22 <wumpus> maintaining two versions sounds overkill to me
5612020-03-26T19:20:31 <wumpus> it's not worth it for such a small thing
5622020-03-26T19:20:38 <luke-jr> ie, can we just do unsigned and signed+notarised?
5632020-03-26T19:20:40 <jonasschnelli> the "right-click-open" approach could be better communicated (release notes, or even in the DMG)
5642020-03-26T19:20:43 <luke-jr> wumpus: we already have two versions really
5652020-03-26T19:21:00 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: it was in at least one rel notes, maybe restore that
5662020-03-26T19:21:23 <wumpus> in general having mulitple choices for download confuses users
5672020-03-26T19:21:30 <jonasschnelli> Best would be a note in the dmg.. but yeah. meh.
5682020-03-26T19:21:36 <luke-jr> website could say right click thing too
5692020-03-26T19:21:41 <wumpus> agreed
5702020-03-26T19:21:54 <wumpus> mentioning it makes sense
5712020-03-26T19:21:59 <luke-jr> ooh, how about having hte DMG background image say it?
5722020-03-26T19:22:07 <jonasschnelli> yes. That.
5732020-03-26T19:22:23 <luke-jr> if they right-click open in the DMG, does that fix single-click later after they copy?
5742020-03-26T19:22:33 <jonasschnelli> Copy to /Application, 1. time start with "right click open"... (something like that in the .tiff)
5752020-03-26T19:22:47 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: very unlikely
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5772020-03-26T19:23:08 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: does the signature do anything for us anymore?
5782020-03-26T19:23:25 <cfields> don't you have to have the dmg already open to see the background? Implying that you've already right-clicked?
5792020-03-26T19:23:38 <jonasschnelli> heh.. yeah. and that.
5802020-03-26T19:23:40 <luke-jr> do they rightclick the DMG, or rightclick the app?
5812020-03-26T19:23:59 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: what do you mean with "signature do anything?"?
5822020-03-26T19:24:22 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: the point of the signature was to avoid a right-click, wasn't it?
5832020-03-26T19:24:28 <luke-jr> if we need to right-click anyway, why sign?
5842020-03-26T19:24:40 <cfields> luke-jr: I'm now wondering the same.
5852020-03-26T19:24:40 <luke-jr> (Apple signature, I mean, obviously we still do a real gitian sig)
5862020-03-26T19:25:10 <cfields> Does the right-click trick still work for completely unsigned apps?
5872020-03-26T19:25:15 <jonasschnelli> Well... the apples idea is _not_ that signatures avoid right click. But yeah. With enforce notarization (10.14) we are back at the same problem.
5882020-03-26T19:25:24 <wumpus> I'm not sure, they might start enforcing signing before enforcing notarization
5892020-03-26T19:25:25 <jonasschnelli> cfields: good questions.
5902020-03-26T19:25:59 <cfields> We should assume they'll eventually enforce everything they introduce.
5912020-03-26T19:26:07 <jonasschnelli> All that stuff would be acceptable. If there would not be a mandatory call-apple connection that reveale the application-hash to apple.
5922020-03-26T19:26:17 <luke-jr> cfields: AFAIK they still don't enforce signing strictly
5932020-03-26T19:26:22 <wumpus> why *would* we stop signing? we already hve the flow for that anyhow
5942020-03-26T19:26:42 <luke-jr> wumpus: it's an extra step; and it means we could stay with just 2 variants AND notarise
5952020-03-26T19:26:43 <wumpus> I don't see any pressing reason to change that
5962020-03-26T19:26:48 <jonasschnelli> indeed
5972020-03-26T19:27:12 <jonasschnelli> Lets just see how Apple continues with notarization and have the stuff ready for a sitaution where we need it.
5982020-03-26T19:27:27 <jonasschnelli> Maybe add a right-click info to the dmg/background
5992020-03-26T19:27:34 <luke-jr> also, by stopping signing, maybe it will make it politically harder for Apple to enforce the notary? *shrug*
6002020-03-26T19:27:37 <wumpus> yes, let's be prepared for when it is stricty enforced, that's likely to happen a tsome point
6012020-03-26T19:27:55 <luke-jr> could be argued either way I suppose
6022020-03-26T19:28:18 <luke-jr> but if there's no benefit to the signing, it's trivial to just not do it
6032020-03-26T19:28:53 <wumpus> I'd prefer to not change it last minute for 0.20 at least, could reconsider for 0.21 if it makes sense, but dunno
6042020-03-26T19:29:00 <jonasschnelli> Signing has benefits,... at almost no costs. Lets keep it.
6052020-03-26T19:29:07 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: what benefit?
6062020-03-26T19:29:20 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: agreed
6072020-03-26T19:29:22 <wumpus> any other topics?
6082020-03-26T19:29:38 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: users not verifiny gitian signaturs have a tiny proof of authicity.
6092020-03-26T19:29:52 <jonasschnelli> /topic
6102020-03-26T19:30:15 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: if they don't verify gitian, why would they verify this?
6112020-03-26T19:30:18 <sipa> hi!
6122020-03-26T19:30:31 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: the os does
6132020-03-26T19:30:35 <wumpus> sipa: you're just in time for the end of the meeting it seems :)
6142020-03-26T19:30:38 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: when?
6152020-03-26T19:30:45 <wumpus> (unless someone has a topic)
6162020-03-26T19:31:16 <wumpus> #endmeeting
6172020-03-26T19:31:16 <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Mar 26 19:31:16 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
6182020-03-26T19:31:16 <lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-03-26-19.00.html
6192020-03-26T19:31:16 <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-03-26-19.00.txt
6202020-03-26T19:31:16 <lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-03-26-19.00.log.html
6212020-03-26T19:31:22 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: an attacker would require to purchase a developer programm, identify himself, etc.
6222020-03-26T19:31:31 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: why would he?
6232020-03-26T19:31:33 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: users can right click info and see developer notes
6242020-03-26T19:31:39 <luke-jr> but they don't..
6252020-03-26T19:31:57 <luke-jr> those who might, would also verify the gitian sigs
6262020-03-26T19:32:09 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: even if they don't. With the default settings, they can be sure an attacked would had to identify with apple
6272020-03-26T19:32:26 <jonasschnelli> *attacker
6282020-03-26T19:32:46 <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: right-click opens it with or without a signature, thoug
6292020-03-26T19:34:25 <jonasschnelli> luke-jr: I think so... :/
6302020-03-26T19:34:56 <jonasschnelli> You kida right, if we recommend right-click open, we probably make the signature useless
6312020-03-26T19:35:24 <jonasschnelli> (because they would also do the right-click open of a malicious clone)
6322020-03-26T19:37:20 <cfields> Surely the app could also be revoked asynchronously, independent of launch-time.
6332020-03-26T19:37:44 <cfields> After all, there's no way it refuses to run notorized apps without an internet connection.
6342020-03-26T19:37:53 <luke-jr> cfields: it shows a warning dialog IIRC
6352020-03-26T19:38:06 <luke-jr> cfields: and launch time isn't the concern as much as "this user is using <app>" is
6362020-03-26T19:39:21 <luke-jr> annoyingly, this is entirely unavoidable with iOS/Android, so we may be losing eventually
6372020-03-26T19:39:39 <cfields> luke-jr: right, I was implying that the runtime check isn't actually all that concerning, as we should assume it's happening in the background as well. So just _having_ Bitcoin Core could cause you to leak :\
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6392020-03-26T19:41:15 <luke-jr> cfields: the warning dialog IIRC basically says "it was good on <stapled notarisation date>, but might not be now"
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6452020-03-26T19:49:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #18443: lockedpool: avoid sensitive data in core files (FreeBSD) (master...madvise) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18443
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6552020-03-26T20:32:24 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #18444: Bugfix: RPC: Remove final comma for last entry of fixed-size arrays in RPCResult (master...bugfix_rr_arrfixed_comma) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18444
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6672020-03-26T21:23:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #18445: tests: Add fuzzing harnesses for functions/classes in chain.h and protocol.h (master...fuzzers-misc-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18445
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