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  5 2020-04-02T00:23:31  <instagibbs> achow101, re https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16528#issuecomment-607520569
  6 2020-04-02T00:24:19  <instagibbs> We should think long and hard about use-cases that don't involve importing addresses. I think importing "mixed" descriptors where you own some privkeys but not all seems like something to look at?
  7 2020-04-02T00:26:02  <achow101> instagibbs: sure
  8 2020-04-02T00:26:17  <instagibbs> i dont think the "mutation" is as bad provided the user is asking for those sigs
  9 2020-04-02T00:26:19  <instagibbs> fwiw
 10 2020-04-02T00:26:45  <instagibbs> the ismine cleanup is much more important, making sure you don't think you got paid at an address you gave to someone
 11 2020-04-02T00:27:22  <achow101> i guess we want the wallet to behave in two different ways: 1) deal with scripts and track transactions related to those scripts; and 2) be a signer that has keys and just signs things ignoring the scripts
 12 2020-04-02T00:27:25  <instagibbs> sign loosely(provided user knows what they are signing), accept strictly
 13 2020-04-02T00:29:00  <instagibbs> So I think it's probably ok to eagerly sign whatever you can when asked, and separately support importing descriptors where you don't have all the keys(this should just make signing easier?)
 14 2020-04-02T00:29:40  <achow101> right
 15 2020-04-02T00:30:24  <instagibbs> Hm, something to mull over.
 16 2020-04-02T00:30:59  <achow101> there's also a bunch of places in the tests that use dumpprivkey to just get a private key for imports and stuff
 17 2020-04-02T00:30:59  <instagibbs> Is it too asinine to only allow xpubs, then multiwallet to have the xprv in another wallet?
 18 2020-04-02T00:31:15  <instagibbs> but yeah no export
 19 2020-04-02T00:31:20  <instagibbs> that's the rub eh
 20 2020-04-02T00:31:23  <achow101> but no export means those don't work
 21 2020-04-02T00:31:39  <achow101> i suppose we could add something to the test framework to generate private keys
 22 2020-04-02T00:31:55  <instagibbs> It seems like a very reasonable use-case to support.
 23 2020-04-02T00:32:20  <instagibbs> Core-generated key being in a multisig :)
 24 2020-04-02T00:32:44  <achow101> my original thoughts about the multisig stuff would be you have 2 wallets, one generated normally, and another watch only one for the multisig. so you then use psbt and multiwallet
 25 2020-04-02T00:33:02  <instagibbs> what's the hold-up on export? feature creep?
 26 2020-04-02T00:33:15  <achow101> security questions about unhardened derivation
 27 2020-04-02T00:34:24  <instagibbs> oh im overthinking, use-case is supported, *if* you can get the account-level xpub
 28 2020-04-02T00:34:31  <instagibbs> i can't recall what your PR supports
 29 2020-04-02T00:34:51  <achow101> currently no exports at all whatoever
 30 2020-04-02T00:35:17  <instagibbs> ok so I think public descriptor export is a thing we'd want to support
 31 2020-04-02T00:35:31  <achow101> yeah
 32 2020-04-02T00:35:36  <achow101> that'll be next
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 36 2020-04-02T00:45:34  <sipa> achow101: i don't think being able to sign for non-"ismine" things is a problem
 37 2020-04-02T00:45:40  <sipa> as long as they're not counted
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 84 2020-04-02T05:48:46  <fanquake> wumpus / sipa: can you block Angelika1920
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 88 2020-04-02T05:59:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #18489: Rebrand to Bitcoin Corrr (master...2004-rebrandCorrr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18489
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104 2020-04-02T07:24:59  <wumpus> fanquake: done
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167 2020-04-02T10:44:39  <promag> wumpus: in #18482 kryvel verified that #18487 fixes the deadlock
168 2020-04-02T10:44:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18482 | RPC stuck on walletpassphrase call · Issue #18482 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
169 2020-04-02T10:44:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18487 | rpc: Fix rpcRunLater race in walletpassphrase by promag · Pull Request #18487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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171 2020-04-02T10:48:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/41fa2926d86a...5c1ba3a10a18
172 2020-04-02T10:48:37  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a46484c Ben Woosley: build: Detect gmtime_* definitions via configure
173 2020-04-02T10:48:38  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5c1ba3a Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #18358: util: fix compilation with mingw-w64 7.0.0
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176 2020-04-02T10:48:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #18358: util: fix compilation with mingw-w64 7.0.0 (master...mingw_w64_gmtime_s) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18358
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178 2020-04-02T10:50:20  <promag> still thing #16923 is good for 0.20, hebasto and jonatack__ did a good review/test there
179 2020-04-02T10:50:22  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16923 | wallet: Handle duplicate fileid exception by promag · Pull Request #16923 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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184 2020-04-02T11:17:41  <hebasto> wumpus: fanquake: it seems we need cd1e7bb064315ce909dfa1a0a14a5660d985f266 from 0.19 in the master before branching off to fix #17010, no?
185 2020-04-02T11:17:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17010 | Missing Boost::System on ARM Ubuntu 18.04 · Issue #17010 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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190 2020-04-02T11:23:12  <hebasto> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/cd1e7bb064315ce909dfa1a0a14a5660d985f266
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198 2020-04-02T11:48:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #18501: build: Fix boost detection on Ubuntu ARM 18.04 (master...20200402-boost-arm) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18501
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213 2020-04-02T12:10:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #18500: chainparams: Bump assumed valid hash (master...2004-chainparamsBump) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18500
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216 2020-04-02T12:10:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #18500: chainparams: Bump assumed valid hash (master...2004-chainparamsBump) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18500
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219 2020-04-02T12:16:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] uzyn opened pull request #18502: doc: Update docs for getbalance (default minconf should be 0) (master...doc-getbalance) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18502
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222 2020-04-02T12:17:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #18503: init: Replace URL_WEBSITE with PACKAGE_URL (master...2004-initRebrand) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18503
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229 2020-04-02T12:38:10  <luke-jr> maybe we should just remove getbalance if it isn't going to get fixed :x
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232 2020-04-02T13:03:51  <instagibbs> I thought getbalances was going to replace it anyways
233 2020-04-02T13:03:52  <wumpus> hebasto: if we don't want that in master, then we need to cherry-pick it *after* the branch off right?
234 2020-04-02T13:03:52  <instagibbs> i guess i don't see any deprecation on that tho
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239 2020-04-02T13:06:44  <luke-jr> instagibbs: yeah, that was my understanding as well
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241 2020-04-02T13:09:09  <wumpus> I don't think we should be deprecating wallet RPCs left and right tbh
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243 2020-04-02T13:09:56  <wumpus> every change requires changes to all software using bitcoin core, sure, sometimes it's really unavoidable (APIs that don't make sense anymore given our implementation, or are a lot of bother to maintain), but I don't think `getbalance` is that
244 2020-04-02T13:10:09  <hebasto> wumpus: https://github.com/autoconf-archive/autoconf-archive/pull/198 seems stalled. What plan do you suggest for master?
245 2020-04-02T13:10:13  <luke-jr> wumpus: it's been broken for several releases now tho
246 2020-04-02T13:12:52  <wumpus> if we can't find a way to handle this that is acceptable to autoconf upstream, we should probably drop it completely
247 2020-04-02T13:13:23  <hebasto> ok
248 2020-04-02T13:14:45  <luke-jr> eh, but the current upstream is broken?
249 2020-04-02T13:15:09  <jonatack__> luke-jr: before removing getbalance, i began with removing getunconfirmedbalance with #18451
250 2020-04-02T13:15:10  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18451 | rpc: remove deprecated getunconfirmedbalance by jonatack · Pull Request #18451 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
251 2020-04-02T13:15:33  <luke-jr> there's already autoconf stuff to handle this afaik
252 2020-04-02T13:15:38  <jonatack__> but no hurry and they need to go through a deprecation process
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256 2020-04-02T13:21:20  <wumpus> well on the plus side, at some point we might not need boost anymore and can close the issue :')
257 2020-04-02T13:24:04  <wumpus> in any case I don't have a strong opinion about it, if the build system ppl thing it's ok to merge our own version into master now and risk overwriting it later that's fine with me too
258 2020-04-02T13:25:09  <aj> wumpus: (we need boost for multi_index_container in txmempool; seems hard to do away with)
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261 2020-04-02T13:25:45  <luke-jr> is there a reason we need the boost lib path at all?
262 2020-04-02T13:25:50  <luke-jr> why can't it just use -lboost_*
263 2020-04-02T13:25:52  <luke-jr> ?
264 2020-04-02T13:26:01  <wumpus> aj: sure but I mean if that's the only thing left, we can probably find a replacment
265 2020-04-02T13:26:19  <wumpus> luke-jr: because -lboost_ doesn't work if the right -L is not specified
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267 2020-04-02T13:26:34  <wumpus> boost libraries are not in the linker default library path
268 2020-04-02T13:26:41  <luke-jr> wumpus: unlikely, we're probably going to add boost::process soon?
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270 2020-04-02T13:26:49  <luke-jr> wumpus: yes they are?
271 2020-04-02T13:27:01  <wumpus> in modern libraries this is solved by pkg-config and similar mechanisms but ofc boost needs to be special
272 2020-04-02T13:27:23  <luke-jr> and this m4 stuff only checks the default library paths anyway
273 2020-04-02T13:27:24  <aj> wumpus: sure, as far as i can tell, boost's is actually pretty good though
274 2020-04-02T13:27:48  <wumpus> aj: okay it's fine if people want to stick with boost forever now that's ok with me too
275 2020-04-02T13:27:58  <wumpus> this changes every few months
276 2020-04-02T13:28:26  <aj> wumpus: boost forever would be a great pr idea in about 364 days i guess
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279 2020-04-02T13:29:02  <luke-jr> probably will be some time before all of our boost needs are in C++ std
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281 2020-04-02T13:29:14  <wumpus> aj: I"m just tired of the back and forth, one day there's a flurry of 'move away form boost' PRs the next everyone is defending boost
282 2020-04-02T13:30:09  <aj> wumpus: ah, sorry then. didn't mean to end up on the defending boost side
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284 2020-04-02T13:31:11  <luke-jr> wumpus: it makes sense to migrate stuff from boost to C++ std, but C++ std doesn't do everything yet
285 2020-04-02T13:31:19  <wumpus> aj: no problem, sorry, not feeling well at the moment shoudln't take it out on you
286 2020-04-02T13:31:31  <aj> wumpus: i am feeling well, so it's fine :)
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291 2020-04-02T13:44:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6bdd515ccf1b...b83565625e32
292 2020-04-02T13:44:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 222253e MarcoFalke: chainparams: Bump assumed valid hash
293 2020-04-02T13:44:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b835656 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #18500: chainparams: Bump assumed valid hash
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296 2020-04-02T13:44:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #18500: chainparams: Bump assumed valid hash (master...2004-chainparamsBump) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18500
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302 2020-04-02T14:26:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #18506: net: Hardcoded seeds update for 0.20 (master...2020_04_hardcoded_seeds) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18506
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312 2020-04-02T15:17:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #18507: test: Check that calling walletpasshprase does not freeze the node (master...2004-qaWalletFreeze) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18507
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314 2020-04-02T15:21:03  <luke-jr> bleh, my comma removal screwed up other formatting
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318 2020-04-02T15:30:22  <promag> MarcoFalke: I can pick your commit if you want
319 2020-04-02T15:30:48  <promag> btw, comment added
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321 2020-04-02T15:31:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #18508: RPC: Fix more formatting nits (master...rpcdoc_format_20200402) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18508
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336 2020-04-02T16:52:31  <MarcoFalke> Looks like #18487 , #18487 and #18487 are the last three things to get in before branch-off?
337 2020-04-02T16:52:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18487 | rpc: Fix rpcRunLater race in walletpassphrase by promag · Pull Request #18487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
338 2020-04-02T16:52:34  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18487 | rpc: Fix rpcRunLater race in walletpassphrase by promag · Pull Request #18487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
339 2020-04-02T16:52:35  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18487 | rpc: Fix rpcRunLater race in walletpassphrase by promag · Pull Request #18487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
340 2020-04-02T16:53:06  <MarcoFalke> * #18458 #18506
341 2020-04-02T16:53:07  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18458 | net: Add missing cs_vNodes lock by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #18458 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
342 2020-04-02T16:53:08  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18506 | net: Hardcoded seeds update for 0.20 by laanwj · Pull Request #18506 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
343 2020-04-02T16:54:16  <MarcoFalke> Even if they miss, they can be backported. I think we should open the master branch again for merges for 0.21
344 2020-04-02T16:57:31  <luke-jr> #18192 and #18465 should be fixed before rc1 IMO
345 2020-04-02T16:57:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18192 | Bugfix: Wallet: Safely deal with change in the address book by luke-jr · Pull Request #18192 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
346 2020-04-02T16:57:35  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18465 | bitcoin-tx (and probably others) fails to build without libevent · Issue #18465 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
347 2020-04-02T16:57:37  <promag> well no need to hold them, you can backport a revert \m/
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353 2020-04-02T17:21:10  <MarcoFalke> There will always be bugs and bugfixes, which can be backported after sufficient review. But at some point we need to open master again.
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355 2020-04-02T17:23:00  <achow101> instagibbs: sipa: it turns out that signing with all spkmans still doesn't work for traditional signrawtransaction* workflows. It should work with PSBTs though. Could we just tell everyone who wants to use descriptor wallets to use PSBT and just disable *rawtransaction RPCs for it as well?
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363 2020-04-02T17:34:18  <sipa> achow101: hmm, why not?
364 2020-04-02T17:34:32  <sipa> (i don't actually understand the issue)
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367 2020-04-02T17:40:58  <achow101> We need to know the reddenScript but that would worker not be in the wallet, or be in a different spkman
368 2020-04-02T17:41:19  <achow101> So the spkman currently attending to sign doesn't know the redeemScript
369 2020-04-02T17:41:30  <achow101> *attempting
370 2020-04-02T17:43:43  <sipa> can't you import it?
371 2020-04-02T17:45:13  <sipa> oh, i see
372 2020-04-02T17:45:27  <sipa> because the private key will be in a different spkman than the one that knows the redeemscript?
373 2020-04-02T17:45:41  <achow101> Yes
374 2020-04-02T17:46:43  <achow101> i suppose one method could be to convert everything into PSBTs internally and just pass around PSBTs between the spkmans
375 2020-04-02T17:47:28  <sipa> or make private keys global for the entire wallet
376 2020-04-02T17:48:45  <sipa> but converting everything to PSBTs internally seems like a good idea in any case
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378 2020-04-02T17:50:04  <achow101> since descriptor wallets is currently an optional feature, I would be fine with requiring PSBTs for now
379 2020-04-02T17:50:31  <achow101> then change the wallet to use PSBTs internally everywhere to solve this particular issue
380 2020-04-02T17:50:53  <achow101> I do have a long term goal of making the wallet use PSBTs everywhere anyways
381 2020-04-02T17:53:24  <sipa> agreed
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386 2020-04-02T18:04:36  <promag> hi
387 2020-04-02T18:04:55  *** Dean_Guss has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
388 2020-04-02T18:05:35  <fjahr> I think meeting starts in one hour
389 2020-04-02T18:05:41  *** mol has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
390 2020-04-02T18:05:57  <promag> fjahr: right, summer time
391 2020-04-02T18:06:02  *** filchef has quit IRC
392 2020-04-02T18:06:07  <promag> thanks
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396 2020-04-02T18:13:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b83565625e32...ff53433fe4ed
397 2020-04-02T18:13:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6112a20 Jon Atack: test: replace (send_message + sync_with_ping) with send_and_ping
398 2020-04-02T18:13:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ff53433 MarcoFalke: Merge #18494: test: replace (send_message + sync_with_ping) with send_and_...
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401 2020-04-02T18:14:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18494:  test: replace (send_message + sync_with_ping) with send_and_ping (master...send_and_ping) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18494
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404 2020-04-02T18:25:17  <wumpus> emzy: your list contains no 0.19.x nodes at all, that's weird!
405 2020-04-02T18:26:14  <emzy> strange. But I think I'm on master
406 2020-04-02T18:27:42  <wumpus> but e.g. cat seeds_sipa.txt |grep "Satoshi:0\\.19"|wc  gives 4026 matches, doing the same for your list gives none :/
407 2020-04-02T18:28:16  <wumpus> I'm going to merge alle the lists and deduplicate so for me it's not a big deal, but it might indicate a problem with your crawler
408 2020-04-02T18:28:22  <emzy> I will invastigate later.
409 2020-04-02T18:31:14  <emzy> after update to master I have 0.19 clients
410 2020-04-02T18:31:58  <emzy> so sorry wrong grep. there are still none.
411 2020-04-02T18:34:58  <sipa> i wonder if i turned off tor after realizing it made crawling super slow
412 2020-04-02T18:35:14  <sipa> my % of outgoing connections of my crawler is going up
413 2020-04-02T18:40:00  <emzy> do I have to generate the seeds.txt.gz file?
414 2020-04-02T18:41:47  <emzy> Ok seems to be this: dnsseed.dump  S
415 2020-04-02T18:42:03  <emzy> So it was my fault. I had a old seeds.txt.gz file.
416 2020-04-02T18:42:14  <sipa> yeah, it's a gzip of the dnsseed.dump file
417 2020-04-02T18:47:33  <emzy> like: gzip --best <dnsseed.dump >seeds.txt.gz
418 2020-04-02T18:47:48  <emzy> I put a old file up. :(
419 2020-04-02T18:49:45  <wumpus> emzy: no problem, can you post a new one please?
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421 2020-04-02T18:51:27  <emzy> I also deleted my dnsseed.dump and all other files. So I will have to wait until it is full again. I only have 902 lines in the file.
422 2020-04-02T18:53:05  <sipa> ah, that's unfortunate
423 2020-04-02T18:54:03  <emzy> And no backup for that server :(
424 2020-04-02T18:57:13  *** promag has quit IRC
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427 2020-04-02T19:00:00  <wumpus> hopefully someone has a list with recent onions in them
428 2020-04-02T19:00:51  <emzy> no onions in my file now :(
429 2020-04-02T19:01:12  <wumpus> #startmeeting
430 2020-04-02T19:01:12  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Apr  2 19:01:12 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
431 2020-04-02T19:01:12  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
432 2020-04-02T19:01:16  <jonasschnelli> hi
433 2020-04-02T19:01:21  <sipsorcery> hi
434 2020-04-02T19:01:27  <hebasto> hi
435 2020-04-02T19:01:28  <fjahr> hi
436 2020-04-02T19:01:28  <cfields> hi
437 2020-04-02T19:01:34  <sipa> hi
438 2020-04-02T19:01:44  <amiti> hi
439 2020-04-02T19:01:44  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr
440 2020-04-02T19:01:46  <wumpus> jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55
441 2020-04-02T19:01:57  <jkczyz> hi
442 2020-04-02T19:01:59  <jb55> hi
443 2020-04-02T19:02:07  <achow101> hi
444 2020-04-02T19:02:12  <jonatack_> hi
445 2020-04-02T19:02:24  <nehan_> hi
446 2020-04-02T19:02:43  <wumpus> no proposed topics for this week, it appears
447 2020-04-02T19:02:46  <elichai2> Hi
448 2020-04-02T19:02:48  <wumpus> any last minute ones?
449 2020-04-02T19:03:07  <jeremyrubin> hi
450 2020-04-02T19:03:14  <luke-jr> wumpus: I saw one earlier.. :p
451 2020-04-02T19:03:17  <jeremyrubin> Hope everyone is safe & healthy :)
452 2020-04-02T19:03:19  <luke-jr> 0.20 bugfixes
453 2020-04-02T19:03:22  <luke-jr> or smth like that
454 2020-04-02T19:03:33  <wumpus> FWIW it's time to do the branch-off for 0.20
455 2020-04-02T19:03:38  <wumpus> and release rc1
456 2020-04-02T19:03:59  <wumpus> luke-jr: don't see it in http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt, but that makes sense
457 2020-04-02T19:04:03  <luke-jr> IMO #18192 and #18465 should be fixed before rc1
458 2020-04-02T19:04:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18192 | Bugfix: Wallet: Safely deal with change in the address book by luke-jr · Pull Request #18192 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
459 2020-04-02T19:04:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18465 | bitcoin-tx (and probably others) fails to build without libevent · Issue #18465 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
460 2020-04-02T19:04:22  <luke-jr> could perhaps still branch off anyway, as they're not really ready :/
461 2020-04-02T19:05:06  <luke-jr> 18192 only affects avoid-reuse wallets, but the harm is irrepairable once affected
462 2020-04-02T19:05:13  <wumpus> those are not even tagged for 0.20
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464 2020-04-02T19:05:30  <promag> hi
465 2020-04-02T19:06:05  <wumpus> unless they're realy urgent might include them in a later rc or 0.20.1
466 2020-04-02T19:06:19  <sipa> are they 0.20 regressions?
467 2020-04-02T19:06:51  <dongcarl> hi
468 2020-04-02T19:06:52  <luke-jr> not regressions, no
469 2020-04-02T19:07:22  <luke-jr> I suppose 18465 has an easy workaround
470 2020-04-02T19:07:39  <sipa> when was 18192 introduced?
471 2020-04-02T19:07:49  <sipa> or when was the problem it solves introduced?
472 2020-04-02T19:07:52  <luke-jr> when avoid-reuse wallets were introduced, 0.19.0 IIRC
473 2020-04-02T19:08:44  <sipa> this sounds moderately serious... i suspect we just haven't heard about it much because few people enable that setting, i expect?
474 2020-04-02T19:08:53  <luke-jr> maybe; I don't know how popular it is
475 2020-04-02T19:09:19  <luke-jr> IMO if we don't fix it, we should at least put it in rel notes as a known issue
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477 2020-04-02T19:09:27  <achow101> i doubt people really use multiwallet or create non-default wallets
478 2020-04-02T19:09:41  <luke-jr> achow101: it's not multiwallet-related
479 2020-04-02T19:09:54  <achow101> luke-jr: but you have to be using the multiwallet feature to enable it
480 2020-04-02T19:10:06  <achow101> i.e. create a new wallet
481 2020-04-02T19:10:10  <luke-jr> hmm
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484 2020-04-02T19:12:13  <luke-jr> also from earlier [16:52:31] <MarcoFalke> Looks like #18487 , #18487 and #18487 are the last three things to get in before branch-off?
485 2020-04-02T19:12:14  <achow101> oh wait, we can use the setwalletflag rpc to enable it. but that requires knowing what you're doing. it's not exposed in the gui
486 2020-04-02T19:12:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18487 | rpc: Fix rpcRunLater race in walletpassphrase by promag · Pull Request #18487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
487 2020-04-02T19:12:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18487 | rpc: Fix rpcRunLater race in walletpassphrase by promag · Pull Request #18487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
488 2020-04-02T19:12:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18487 | rpc: Fix rpcRunLater race in walletpassphrase by promag · Pull Request #18487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
489 2020-04-02T19:12:31  <luke-jr> rtt
490 2020-04-02T19:12:33  <luke-jr> err*
491 2020-04-02T19:12:38  <luke-jr> [16:53:06] <MarcoFalke> * #18458 #18506
492 2020-04-02T19:12:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18458 | net: Add missing cs_vNodes lock by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #18458 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
493 2020-04-02T19:12:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18506 | net: Hardcoded seeds update for 0.20 by laanwj · Pull Request #18506 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
494 2020-04-02T19:13:00  <promag> lol
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498 2020-04-02T19:14:26  <wumpus> yes those are tagged https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A0.20.0
499 2020-04-02T19:14:54  <luke-jr> 18192 & 18465 should probably at least get tagged, even if they end up slipping the release
500 2020-04-02T19:15:43  <wumpus> ok
501 2020-04-02T19:15:54  *** mol has quit IRC
502 2020-04-02T19:17:02  <jonatack_> another avoid_reuse related bugfix is #17824 (2 acks)
503 2020-04-02T19:17:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17824 | wallet: Prefer full destination groups in coin selection by fjahr · Pull Request #17824 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
504 2020-04-02T19:17:56  <wumpus> this adds way more things last-minute for 0.20 than I expected
505 2020-04-02T19:18:03  <jonatack_> (not saying it's as urgent)
506 2020-04-02T19:18:18  <sipa> 17824 seems like a bigger change
507 2020-04-02T19:18:26  *** filchef has quit IRC
508 2020-04-02T19:18:26  <wumpus> we could also add a note to the release notes that avoid-reuse is buggy
509 2020-04-02T19:18:46  <wumpus> or disable it
510 2020-04-02T19:18:56  *** filchef has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
511 2020-04-02T19:19:07  <wumpus> oh wait it was introduced in 0.19 not 0.20
512 2020-04-02T19:19:12  <wumpus> so not that
513 2020-04-02T19:22:01  <sipa> maybe let's prioritize review on #18192, and see how far we get?
514 2020-04-02T19:22:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18192 | Bugfix: Wallet: Safely deal with change in the address book by luke-jr · Pull Request #18192 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
515 2020-04-02T19:22:10  <sipa> if not, a release note can always be added
516 2020-04-02T19:23:12  <wumpus> let's set a new deadline for the branch-off then?
517 2020-04-02T19:23:40  <wumpus> we missed yesterday at least :)
518 2020-04-02T19:23:50  <luke-jr> why not just branch off now?
519 2020-04-02T19:24:06  <promag> +1
520 2020-04-02T19:24:13  <wumpus> I want to do rc1 release at the same time
521 2020-04-02T19:24:18  <promag> oh kk
522 2020-04-02T19:24:56  <sipa> seems reasonable to aim to do them simultaneously
523 2020-04-02T19:24:58  <jeremyrubin> #proposedmeetingtopic limited use of boost in consensus for backports
524 2020-04-02T19:25:02  * luke-jr shrugs
525 2020-04-02T19:25:38  <wumpus> I don't see a reason to do a branch-off without immediately doing rc1, that would just result in more backporting work
526 2020-04-02T19:26:03  <wumpus> oh no, no boost topic please
527 2020-04-02T19:26:13  <jeremyrubin> lol :|
528 2020-04-02T19:26:14  <sipa> at least not when we have known issues to solve still
529 2020-04-02T19:26:38  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: we'd need to adapt the build system.. isn't it avoidable?
530 2020-04-02T19:26:46  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: no it isn't
531 2020-04-02T19:27:09  <wumpus> sipa: right
532 2020-04-02T19:27:21  <luke-jr> what kind of bugfix requires boost? :/
533 2020-04-02T19:27:33  <jeremyrubin> anyways we can discuss after the meeting if needed or when it's the topics turn
534 2020-04-02T19:27:44  <jeremyrubin> but I don't think anyone wants to discuss it now
535 2020-04-02T19:27:52  <jeremyrubin> Except maybe you and I
536 2020-04-02T19:28:30  <wumpus> well it's not like we have other topics
537 2020-04-02T19:28:42  <luke-jr> ^
538 2020-04-02T19:28:45  <jeremyrubin> Ah I took your request literally
539 2020-04-02T19:28:46  <wumpus> #topic limited use of boost in consensus for backports
540 2020-04-02T19:29:16  <jeremyrubin> Well; I think on the 0.21 horizon is upgrading to c++17, one feature of which means things like std::option being available
541 2020-04-02T19:29:34  <jeremyrubin> We're currently reviewing code for things like #18401
542 2020-04-02T19:29:37  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18401 | Refactor: Initialize PrecomputedTransactionData in CheckInputScripts by jnewbery · Pull Request #18401 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
543 2020-04-02T19:29:56  <jeremyrubin> Which IMO should be properly written/refactored using option types
544 2020-04-02T19:30:05  <jeremyrubin> See https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17977#discussion_r370948973
545 2020-04-02T19:30:09  <sipa> if it came at no cost, sure
546 2020-04-02T19:30:36  <sipa> but the level of review necessary for those things already far outweighs the (imho) minimal complication of just splitting variables up into a bool + other var
547 2020-04-02T19:30:48  <jeremyrubin> issue exists outside of taproot
548 2020-04-02T19:31:05  <sipa> sure
549 2020-04-02T19:31:16  <sipa> i wasn't speaking about that specifically
550 2020-04-02T19:31:16  <jeremyrubin> at large, not just in this context -- if we need to gate development of features which touch consensus to not use c++17 features in consensus
551 2020-04-02T19:31:27  <jeremyrubin> because it will interfere with backports
552 2020-04-02T19:31:28  <luke-jr> IMO we should just not allow C++17 for consensus code where it would make this problem
553 2020-04-02T19:32:03  *** mdunnio has quit IRC
554 2020-04-02T19:32:05  <jeremyrubin> So there's three "solutions"
555 2020-04-02T19:32:08  <sipa> right, until those are outside of backport window
556 2020-04-02T19:32:15  <jeremyrubin> 1) No c++17 stuff for a while because of backports
557 2020-04-02T19:32:20  *** mdunnio has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
558 2020-04-02T19:32:45  <jeremyrubin> 2) Allow linking in boost c++17 API fill-ins  that we already have until out of support window
559 2020-04-02T19:32:55  <wumpus> I think we should either switch to C++17 for the entire codebase, or not at all
560 2020-04-02T19:33:15  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: we don't have in libconsensus
561 2020-04-02T19:33:38  <sipa> i think that once master is c++17, we can switch backports to c++17 as well, actually
562 2020-04-02T19:33:49  <wumpus> moderating which parts of the codebase C++17 features are allowed and where not makes things very complicated for reviewers and maintainers
563 2020-04-02T19:33:51  <luke-jr> sipa: defeats one big point of backports?
564 2020-04-02T19:33:55  <jeremyrubin> 3) upgrade backports to c++17 :)
565 2020-04-02T19:34:00  <wumpus> so I'd prefer to not use C++17 at all then
566 2020-04-02T19:34:08  <hebasto> Not switching from c++11 for the entire codebase could be a problem for Qt stuff on macOS
567 2020-04-02T19:34:16  <luke-jr> IIRC backports only delays us an extra year, right?
568 2020-04-02T19:34:17  <wumpus> it's not like we really need it
569 2020-04-02T19:34:33  <sipa> wumpus: well that's a deadlock, because there will always be some backport to support
570 2020-04-02T19:34:40  <wumpus> it'[s always 'it would be nice to use this new c++ standard'
571 2020-04-02T19:34:46  <wumpus> which it would be, sure
572 2020-04-02T19:34:50  *** mdunnio has quit IRC
573 2020-04-02T19:34:51  <sipa> so independent of the urgency of c++17 or when it is introduced, it's a good question to address
574 2020-04-02T19:35:41  <sipa> luke-jr: backports exist because introduced features introduce compatibility issues for people who want a safer upgrade path
575 2020-04-02T19:35:42  <jeremyrubin> It's also the right time to start thinking about it IMO -- if 0.21 will be c++17 release
576 2020-04-02T19:36:05  <jeremyrubin> Which I've seen wumpus say is feasible
577 2020-04-02T19:36:09  <wumpus> yes, I just think using C++17 for only parts of the codebase is impractical
578 2020-04-02T19:36:12  <luke-jr> sipa: one of those issues is C++ version compat
579 2020-04-02T19:36:33  <sipa> but if there are a significant amount of people who wouldn't be able to upgrade to a new major version because of c++ language compatibility issues, we simply shouldn't update to c++17 (yet)
580 2020-04-02T19:36:40  <luke-jr> how hard would it be to compile some of the codebase with C++17 enabled, and not others?
581 2020-04-02T19:36:42  <sipa> wumpus: that's fair
582 2020-04-02T19:36:52  <cfields> luke-jr: I really don't like that idea.
583 2020-04-02T19:37:01  <wumpus> luke-jr: I'm sure it's *possible* but I fear all kinds of API conflicts
584 2020-04-02T19:37:03  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: would probably make binaries bigger
585 2020-04-02T19:37:10  <luke-jr> hmm
586 2020-04-02T19:37:11  <cfields> luke-jr: I think the threat of something like an uncaught exception is very real in that scenario.
587 2020-04-02T19:37:13  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: yeah
588 2020-04-02T19:37:19  <luke-jr> cfields: right, I see
589 2020-04-02T19:37:35  <wumpus> cfields: yes, it's probably an unacceptable risk in our case
590 2020-04-02T19:37:53  <jeremyrubin> How was this handled historically?
591 2020-04-02T19:37:57  <wumpus> of course, if it's only for checking
592 2020-04-02T19:38:04  <sipa> so maybe we can settle on: we don't update to c++17 until we're in a position where no new backport releases are expected
593 2020-04-02T19:38:05  <wumpus> you could compile the consensus files with c++11 *as well*
594 2020-04-02T19:38:06  <jeremyrubin> Or was the switch to 11 widely supported enough at the time
595 2020-04-02T19:38:09  <wumpus> and throw away the result
596 2020-04-02T19:38:41  <sipa> if then an emergency happens that causes us to revert on that - so be it
597 2020-04-02T19:38:43  <jeremyrubin> Or we can turn on c++17 for 0.20, but compile both for checking as wumpus suggests
598 2020-04-02T19:38:54  <jeremyrubin> That way we're "priming" our backport window
599 2020-04-02T19:39:17  <wumpus> I'd still prefer not to do this (also because what is 'consensus code' is not very well isolated in our code base)
600 2020-04-02T19:39:21  <jeremyrubin> I don't think c++17 has any *breaking* changes?
601 2020-04-02T19:39:40  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: I'm saying the whole codebase not just consensus
602 2020-04-02T19:40:10  <cfields> jeremyrubin: iirc ^^ is what we did for c++11.
603 2020-04-02T19:40:12  <wumpus> compile the entire codebase with c++17 and c++11? that's a lot of cverhead
604 2020-04-02T19:40:12  <jeremyrubin> We can upgrade to c++17 today but not accept code changes that break c++11 compat.
605 2020-04-02T19:40:36  <sipa> wumpus: we did that for a while with c++11 i think, i actually?
606 2020-04-02T19:40:48  <sipa> though i'm not sure this is the right time; our focus now is 0.20
607 2020-04-02T19:40:51  <jeremyrubin> Releases etc can be c++17, but anyone can build for c++11. We probably need to do this for 1-2 releases
608 2020-04-02T19:40:59  <jeremyrubin> sipa: it is the right time to start worrying about this
609 2020-04-02T19:40:59  <sipa> and i think the discussion of when c++17 is a different one
610 2020-04-02T19:41:03  *** vasild_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
611 2020-04-02T19:41:06  <wumpus> sipa: oh you mean more like a travis run that compiles with c++17 instead of c++11?
612 2020-04-02T19:41:12  <cfields> sipa: yea, that's what we did.
613 2020-04-02T19:41:12  <sipa> wumpus: right
614 2020-04-02T19:41:16  <jeremyrubin> Because if we do it for 0.20 it means 0.21 and 0.22 can use c++17
615 2020-04-02T19:41:25  <cfields> sipa: we had a release that was "technically" c++11, but iirc we didn't force the flag on.
616 2020-04-02T19:41:28  *** vincenzopalazzo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
617 2020-04-02T19:41:32  <cfields> Then we forced it on in master.
618 2020-04-02T19:41:36  <sipa> cfields: right
619 2020-04-02T19:41:52  <wumpus> makes sense to do that again then
620 2020-04-02T19:41:54  <wumpus> for 0.21
621 2020-04-02T19:41:57  <cfields> Don't remember for backports, I guess we were just kinda careful/reasonable about it?
622 2020-04-02T19:42:09  <sipa> i guess if someone does the work for adding a c++17 travis build, and it passes with effectively no code changes... why not
623 2020-04-02T19:42:21  *** luke-jr has quit IRC
624 2020-04-02T19:42:39  <wumpus> I don't expect that to take a lot of changes
625 2020-04-02T19:43:16  <sipa> i think so
626 2020-04-02T19:44:01  <jeremyrubin> sounds like a plan to me?
627 2020-04-02T19:44:11  <cfields> Also, we banned certain features when we started with c++11. thread_local is the obvious one that comes to mind, but IIRC there were others as well.
628 2020-04-02T19:44:23  *** vasild has quit IRC
629 2020-04-02T19:44:24  *** vasild_ is now known as vasild
630 2020-04-02T19:44:34  <dongcarl> if there's consensus, can someone summarize the game plan?
631 2020-04-02T19:45:38  <jeremyrubin> I can try...
632 2020-04-02T19:46:00  <jeremyrubin> 1) Make 0.20 c++17 and c++11 buildable if easily doable
633 2020-04-02T19:46:05  <wumpus> dongcarl: the idea is to add a travis run to compile the current code with c++17, do the minimum changes to be compatible with c++17 as well as c++11, for 0.21
634 2020-04-02T19:46:08  *** ccdle12 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
635 2020-04-02T19:46:13  <sipa> trying a C++17 build now
636 2020-04-02T19:46:24  <sipa> with gcc 9.3
637 2020-04-02T19:46:37  <jeremyrubin> I thought we'd do it for 0.20 if it's a small patchset and we haven't branched it yet?
638 2020-04-02T19:46:37  <wumpus> and delay the real switch to c++17 (like actually using new features) to 0.22
639 2020-04-02T19:46:51  <wumpus> no, we're not going to do anything like that for 0.20
640 2020-04-02T19:46:53  <jeremyrubin> Why not do it in 0.20 if it can be done?
641 2020-04-02T19:47:05  <jeremyrubin> It has basically 0 functional changes?
642 2020-04-02T19:47:08  <wumpus> 0.20.0rc1 should have been tagged yesterday
643 2020-04-02T19:47:30  <wumpus> if anything is going in it's bugfixes
644 2020-04-02T19:47:37  <cfields> fwiw, I'd like to do at least a small audit on the c++17/c++20 errata to see if there are any obvious implementation minefields to look out for.
645 2020-04-02T19:47:41  <jeremyrubin> I mean it sort of doesn't really matter if it's in 0.20 or not as c++17 compat can be backported into a minor anyways...
646 2020-04-02T19:48:29  <dongcarl> Okay, so what will gitian builds use? v0.20: c++11, v0.21: c++11, v0.22: c++17?
647 2020-04-02T19:48:30  <cfields> (c++20 because presumably several c++17 issues were fixed there)
648 2020-04-02T19:48:37  <dongcarl> cfields: Right, good call
649 2020-04-02T19:49:01  <wumpus> dongcarl: gitian builds could use c++17 from 0.21 on
650 2020-04-02T19:49:18  <wumpus> it just still has to be compatible with c++1
651 2020-04-02T19:49:49  <sipa> wumpus: ah, so we can easily back out back to c++11 if issues are discovered?
652 2020-04-02T19:49:51  <wumpus> so that things can be backported
653 2020-04-02T19:49:57  <wumpus> sipa: that too
654 2020-04-02T19:49:59  <sipa> right
655 2020-04-02T19:50:05  <sipa> that seems reasonable
656 2020-04-02T19:50:17  <cfields> Not sure about g++, but clang++ definitely has a switch for enforcing c++11 syntax/features for newer standards.
657 2020-04-02T19:50:31  <cfields> So that'd be easy enough to lint/automate.
658 2020-04-02T19:50:39  <sipa> oh the irony
659 2020-04-02T19:50:46  <jeremyrubin> cfields: we only need one compiler to have that feature fortunately
660 2020-04-02T19:50:55  <sipa> the only compile error i get with c++17 is Span related
661 2020-04-02T19:51:00  <cfields> jeremyrubin: right
662 2020-04-02T19:51:27  <dongcarl> Got it: v0.20: COMPAT with c++11 + c++17 only if easily doable, GITIAN with c++11; v0.21: COMPAT with c++11 + c++17, GITIAN with c++17; v0.22: COMPAT with c++17, GITIAN with c++17. Is this the plan?
663 2020-04-02T19:51:51  <wumpus> sgtm
664 2020-04-02T19:51:53  *** luke-jr has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
665 2020-04-02T19:52:02  <sipa> dongcarl: ack
666 2020-04-02T19:52:09  *** mdunnio has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
667 2020-04-02T19:52:20  <dongcarl> Great. Will post on the c++17 issue
668 2020-04-02T19:52:22  <jeremyrubin> Loks right. And backports from 0.22 only go to 0.21?
669 2020-04-02T19:52:35  <jeremyrubin> Or to 0.20 too if we can get those builds up easily
670 2020-04-02T19:52:57  <jeremyrubin> (depending on the feature using APIs that make backport non-trivial)
671 2020-04-02T19:53:33  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: yes
672 2020-04-02T19:53:40  <cfields> I think as long as we don't race to replace every line of code with a c++17ism we'll be fine, generally.
673 2020-04-02T19:53:53  <wumpus> it's pretty rare in the first place to backport things two releases
674 2020-04-02T19:54:01  <wumpus> cfields: also that
675 2020-04-02T19:54:32  <jeremyrubin> cfields: noooo you can't just refactor the whole.... hahahah find and replace go refactorrrrrrrrrr
676 2020-04-02T19:55:07  <sipa> refactorrr̅
677 2020-04-02T19:55:08  <wumpus> hehe I think we had a rule for that for C++11 as well, don't C++11-ize things for the sake of doing so
678 2020-04-02T19:55:34  <sipa> right
679 2020-04-02T19:57:10  <wumpus> is someone going to post this into the c++17 issue?
680 2020-04-02T19:57:35  <jeremyrubin> dongcarl:
681 2020-04-02T19:57:46  <sipa> FWIW, with #18468 + updating ax_cxx_compile_stdcxx.m4, everything compiles in c++17
682 2020-04-02T19:57:48  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18468 | Span improvements by sipa · Pull Request #18468 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
683 2020-04-02T19:58:05  <dongcarl> Yeah making a little table now, perhaps jeremyrubin can add on about the backporting plan, not sure I understand it fully yet
684 2020-04-02T19:58:30  <dongcarl> (add on in the issue)
685 2020-04-02T19:59:10  <cncr04s> don't make me have to upgrade my distro to support new c++ versions
686 2020-04-02T19:59:27  <sipa> cncr04s: what distro might that be?
687 2020-04-02T19:59:44  <sipa> (we don't generally update c++ versions when it interferes with building on common platforms)
688 2020-04-02T19:59:51  <cncr04s> ubuntu 14.04
689 2020-04-02T20:00:10  <jeremyrubin> I'm not sure upgrading core is your largest concern there
690 2020-04-02T20:00:14  <cfields> cncr04s: also, runtime is not affected. Releases are linked statically against lib(std)c++.
691 2020-04-02T20:00:34  <cfields> So this is 99% a development decision.
692 2020-04-02T20:00:43  <wumpus> #endmeeting
693 2020-04-02T20:00:43  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Apr  2 20:00:43 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
694 2020-04-02T20:00:43  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-04-02-19.01.html
695 2020-04-02T20:00:43  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-04-02-19.01.txt
696 2020-04-02T20:00:43  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-04-02-19.01.log.html
697 2020-04-02T20:00:49  <wumpus> cfields: +1
698 2020-04-02T20:01:06  <jeremyrubin> 14.04 has been EOL for a while so you want to upgrade anyways...
699 2020-04-02T20:01:08  <wumpus> the binaries will still work on 14.04
700 2020-04-02T20:01:12  <cncr04s> I should have said new gcc versions but, I stick with the versions that come from repo
701 2020-04-02T20:01:42  <wumpus> but if you want to do development you'll need a gcc that supports c++17
702 2020-04-02T20:02:19  <cncr04s> 18.04 likley then
703 2020-04-02T20:02:22  <sipa> not that according to the plan, you'd need to do so at the earliest once 0.22 branches off (+- a year from now)
704 2020-04-02T20:02:22  <wumpus> this is not unreasonable in these days, mind that this is a discussion for 0.22 at first which is a year away
705 2020-04-02T20:02:50  <wumpus> 16.04 should have (can't find the issue right now tho)
706 2020-04-02T20:02:52  <cfields> Yea, it's much simpler these days. c++11 took _years_ to gain compiler support.
707 2020-04-02T20:03:03  <luke-jr> [19:38:06] <luke-jr> how about only building libconsensus with C++11?
708 2020-04-02T20:03:04  <luke-jr> [19:38:25] <luke-jr> eg a dedicated Travis job that only builds that
709 2020-04-02T20:03:06  <luke-jr> [19:38:39] <luke-jr> might be good to do anyway to ensure we don't accidentally boost-ify it
710 2020-04-02T20:03:07  <cfields> so it was more understandable as a holdup imo.
711 2020-04-02T20:03:07  <luke-jr> [19:38:46] <luke-jr> (don't install boost either)
712 2020-04-02T20:03:08  <luke-jr> sorry, my internet cut out
713 2020-04-02T20:03:27  <cncr04s> still using 0x only just over a year ago
714 2020-04-02T20:03:37  <cncr04s> personally
715 2020-04-02T20:03:51  <dongcarl> jeremyrubin: Updated issue description here: #16684
716 2020-04-02T20:03:52  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16684 | Discussion: upgrading to C++17 · Issue #16684 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
717 2020-04-02T20:03:52  <sipa> c++14 is a very minor change; c++17 is somewhat bigger, but not nearly as big as c++03->c++11
718 2020-04-02T20:04:07  <dongcarl> jeremyrubin: Perhaps you can write a little about the backporting situation
719 2020-04-02T20:04:12  <cncr04s> mostly due to compilers and distros taking forever to update to them
720 2020-04-02T20:04:15  <cfields> sipa: good point.
721 2020-04-02T20:04:43  <sipa> also, all functional/unit tests run with c++17 (after 18468 )
722 2020-04-02T20:08:39  <dongcarl> cfields: I think libstdc++ errata is the important one, yes?
723 2020-04-02T20:08:54  <cfields> dongcarl: hmm?
724 2020-04-02T20:09:42  <cfields> dongcarl: Sorry, I meant errata from the standard itself. Somewhere there's a collection of "oops, stuff we clearly got wrong in the spec".
725 2020-04-02T20:10:00  <dongcarl> Ah okay I understand now
726 2020-04-02T20:11:07  <cfields> dongcarl: but looking at implementation notes makes sense too.
727 2020-04-02T20:15:57  <sipa> also compiles with clang++ 6.0 under c++17
728 2020-04-02T20:18:29  <elichai2> So the time to start slowly replacing boost with c++17 is after 0.21 is branched off?
729 2020-04-02T20:20:18  <jeremyrubin> elichai2: maybe; it kinda depends. If it takes 6+ months for your contribution to get reviewed and stuff to be merged you can do that... now! But you'd then possibly be merge gated until 0.21 is branched.
730 2020-04-02T20:20:23  <elichai2> (I belive this isn't considered C++17-ize things just for the sake of doing so)
731 2020-04-02T20:20:39  <jeremyrubin> It also depends on if your stuff has obvious backport shims
732 2020-04-02T20:20:53  <jeremyrubin> We're already using option types for instance
733 2020-04-02T20:21:41  <elichai2> Right. option should be easy to replace. I'm more thinking std::fs and the harder parts
734 2020-04-02T20:22:00  <sipa> elichai2: after 0.22 is branched off
735 2020-04-02T20:22:11  <sipa> eh, i guess that's ambiguous
736 2020-04-02T20:22:28  <sipa> as soon as master branch is on the path to become 0.22, a year from now approximately
737 2020-04-02T20:22:33  <jeremyrubin> sipa: there's a difference between the review window and the merge window
738 2020-04-02T20:22:45  <sipa> oh no
739 2020-04-02T20:22:55  <sipa> i'm confusing myself
740 2020-04-02T20:23:00  <elichai2> Sipa, right so when 0.21 is branched off and master is 0.22 ;)
741 2020-04-02T20:23:17  <sipa> so half a year from now, at the very earliest
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743 2020-04-02T20:24:08  <sipa> this is funny in the list of deprecated c++17 features:
744 2020-04-02T20:24:11  <sipa> P0618R0 Deprecate <codecvt> The entire header <codecvt> (which does not contain the class codecvt!) is deprecated, as are the utilities wstring_convert and wbuffer_convert. These features are hard to use correctly, and there are doubts whether they are even specified correctly. Users should use dedicated text-processing libraries instead.
745 2020-04-02T20:26:11  <sipa> "this turns out to be hard; let someone else do it"
746 2020-04-02T20:32:35  <elichai2> Loool
747 2020-04-02T20:33:03  <elichai2> I think the new standards are cool on one hand, but on the other it seems like stl is just getting messier and messier
748 2020-04-02T20:33:42  <jeremyrubin> messy stl > boost tho
749 2020-04-02T20:35:14  <jeremyrubin> ugh github is kinda down
750 2020-04-02T20:35:34  <sipa> elichai2: i think modern stl is pretty nice
751 2020-04-02T20:35:39  <sipa> it's of course growing is features
752 2020-04-02T20:35:52  <sipa> but they do seem to put a lot of work in making sure things work together nicely
753 2020-04-02T20:36:11  <elichai2> jeremyrubin: oh that's a give. Boost is the kind of messy
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755 2020-04-02T20:36:41  <elichai2> sipa: right, Altough I'm not sure how I feel about their ADL overuse
756 2020-04-02T20:36:48  <sipa> boost is really the STL sandbox :p
757 2020-04-02T20:36:51  <sipa> ADL?
758 2020-04-02T20:37:06  <elichai2> Argument dependent lookup
759 2020-04-02T20:38:03  <elichai2> That you can have `void my_func(A& a);` and then you can just call `a.my_func()`
760 2020-04-02T20:39:55  <sipa> elichai2: reading up on it
761 2020-04-02T20:40:04  <jeremyrubin> Oh so you can patch in stuff to a class?
762 2020-04-02T20:40:05  <sipa> it doesn't seem to be what you're saying
763 2020-04-02T20:40:15  <jeremyrubin> Is it a syntax change?
764 2020-04-02T20:40:19  <elichai2> Yeah I might be confusing 2 terms
765 2020-04-02T20:40:30  <elichai2> Hard to see on my phone
766 2020-04-02T20:40:39  <sipa> just that if you havea function A in namespace B, you can call `A(B::something)`, and it will attempt resolving it as "B::A(B::something)"
767 2020-04-02T20:41:06  <sipa> without being in namespace B
768 2020-04-02T20:46:40  <elichai2> what I remembered also doesn't seem to work hmm, maybe I'm confusing a c++2x proposal I've read, let me check
769 2020-04-02T20:46:55  <promag> sorry, so when rc1?
770 2020-04-02T20:47:49  <sipa> elichai2: it's hard to claim there is ADL overuse, when what you imagined ADL was isn't even possible :p
771 2020-04-02T20:48:19  <elichai2> sipa: you're right hehe, I'm now doubting me memory lol
772 2020-04-02T20:48:32  <elichai2> seeing way too many cppcon talks
773 2020-04-02T20:49:11  <sipa> STL does use ADL for some things, for example the idion for calling swap on generic types is {using namespace std; swap(a, b); }
774 2020-04-02T20:49:37  <sipa> which will use std::swap if possible, but also consider the namespaces a and b are to find a definition for a swap
775 2020-04-02T20:50:12  <sipa> otherwise you'd need to inject swap into the std namespace for user-defined types
776 2020-04-02T20:50:47  <sipa> arguably, it's saying that anything, in whatever namespace, with the name swap should have swap-like semantics, which is pretty polluting conceptually
777 2020-04-02T20:52:01  <jonatack_> luke-jr: 18192 lgtm... github killed my review ack
778 2020-04-02T20:53:16  <elichai2> sipa: Ok, at this point I honestly got no idea where that came into my mind. it seems non existent :O
779 2020-04-02T20:53:36  <kanzure> hi/win 237
780 2020-04-02T20:53:38  <elichai2> I should re-watch the C++17 talks
781 2020-04-02T20:53:46  <dongcarl> GitHub is down! *crab dance*
782 2020-04-02T20:53:46  <kanzure> ah crap
783 2020-04-02T20:54:02  <jonatack_> github yay 🏆
784 2020-04-02T20:54:22  <elichai2> dongcarl: that explains why cargo is giving me troubles :/
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787 2020-04-02T20:57:01  <elichai2> Finally finished compiling stage2 clang-10 :D
788 2020-04-02T20:58:09  <sipa> even gcc 9.3 doesn't have std::span :(
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790 2020-04-02T20:58:22  <elichai2> yeah std::span is c++2x
791 2020-04-02T20:58:37  <sipa> gcc 9.3 has some parts of c++2a
792 2020-04-02T20:58:42  <sipa> but not std::span, it seems
793 2020-04-02T20:58:45  <elichai2> right 2a not 2x
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795 2020-04-02T20:59:07  <elichai2> yeah clang guys are really into experimental stuff where gcc seems less so
796 2020-04-02T20:59:13  <sipa> it was c++1x(=11), c++1y(=14), c++1z(=17), c++a2(=20)
797 2020-04-02T20:59:38  <dongcarl> std::span support starts with libstdc++ 10
798 2020-04-02T20:59:54  <sipa> and in clang libc++ 7
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800 2020-04-02T21:01:42  <elichai2> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/header/experimental
801 2020-04-02T21:07:36  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
802 2020-04-02T21:07:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ff53433fe4ed...0d71395848bb
803 2020-04-02T21:07:37  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa6e01f MarcoFalke: doc: block-relay-only is not blocksonly
804 2020-04-02T21:07:38  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0d71395 MarcoFalke: Merge #18464: doc: block-relay-only vs blocksonly
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807 2020-04-02T21:08:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18464: doc: block-relay-only vs blocksonly (master...2003-docBlockRelayOnly) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18464
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823 2020-04-02T22:48:57  <jeremyrubin> [13:50] <sipa> arguably, it's saying that anything, in whatever namespace, with the name swap should have swap-like semantics, which is pretty polluting conceptually
824 2020-04-02T22:49:10  <jeremyrubin> sipa: I think this will be improved with concepts right?
825 2020-04-02T22:51:36  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
826 2020-04-02T22:51:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0d71395848bb...dce6f3b29b41
827 2020-04-02T22:51:36  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f65c9ad Elichai Turkel: Check for overflow when calculating sum of outputs
828 2020-04-02T22:51:37  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dce6f3b MarcoFalke: Merge #18383: refactor: Check for overflow when calculating sum of tx outp...
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831 2020-04-02T22:51:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18383: refactor: Check for overflow when calculating sum of tx outputs (master...2020-03-value-overflow) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18383
832 2020-04-02T22:51:57  *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
833 2020-04-02T22:52:50  <sipa> jeremyrubin: partially maybe
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835 2020-04-02T22:54:08  <sipa> it still means that various stl libraries will try to invoke your user-defined namespace's swap functions if you're not careful
836 2020-04-02T22:54:16  <sipa> *stl functions
837 2020-04-02T22:54:21  <jeremyrubin> True.
838 2020-04-02T22:54:48  <jeremyrubin> Also looking at c++20 swappable it looks wrong for accomplishing this
839 2020-04-02T22:55:28  <jeremyrubin> But in theory you could have a concept which uses std::swap to delegate to the member function swap
840 2020-04-02T22:56:04  <sipa> it seems c++20 actually explicitly allows user-defined std::swap (in the std namespace)
841 2020-04-02T22:56:38  <jeremyrubin> Probably a better way to fix it as most existing code bases will take a long time to get any sort of concepts deeply integrated
842 2020-04-02T22:57:44  <jeremyrubin> TBH one of the c++17 features I'm most excited for is the map/unordered_map node extract API :p
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848 2020-04-02T23:15:44  <fanquake> jonatack: why did you remove parts of the release notes in the wiki? i.e dark mode support on macOS?
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