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 72 2020-07-17T05:53:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c57dc566b060...19aaf7945e89
 73 2020-07-17T05:53:47  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cb31ee0 gzhao408: [test] feefilter during and after IBD
 74 2020-07-17T05:53:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 19aaf79 MarcoFalke: Merge #19423: test: add functional test for txrelay during and after IBD
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 77 2020-07-17T05:54:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19423: test: add functional test for txrelay during and after IBD (master...ibd-txrelay-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19423
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 84 2020-07-17T06:25:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/19aaf7945e89...c04485850e72
 85 2020-07-17T06:25:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6457361 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Fix QFileDialog for static builds
 86 2020-07-17T06:25:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c044858 fanquake: Merge #19536: qt, build: Fix QFileDialog for static builds
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 89 2020-07-17T06:26:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #19536: qt, build: Fix QFileDialog for static builds (master...200716-fqd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19536
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128 2020-07-17T09:50:54  <jonatack> wumpus: thanks! (for 18044)
129 2020-07-17T09:51:22  <jonatack> wumpus: your stats script that goes through getpeerinfo and categorizes them by in/out × ipv4/ipv6/tor would be handy for me right now
130 2020-07-17T09:51:45  <jonatack> wumpus: any chance you could link me to it?
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132 2020-07-17T09:53:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #19542: Revert "refactor: replace CConnman pointers by references in net_processing.cpp" (master...2020_07_revert_19174) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19542
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139 2020-07-17T10:02:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #19465: Use LevelDB paranoid_checks option unconditionally (master...200708-ldb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19465
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159 2020-07-17T11:57:37  <wumpus> jonatack: sure, let me see
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161 2020-07-17T12:02:06  <wumpus> jonatack: https://gist.github.com/laanwj/5d77c8d0ed4b3ca3ed009727fe6c2f67
162 2020-07-17T12:06:18  <wumpus> (it makes some assumptions that cannot be stated in general, like "every connection that comes from comes from tor")
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164 2020-07-17T12:09:14  <wumpus> also tor should be 'onion' in the new command line option wording
165 2020-07-17T12:09:23  <jonatack> wumpus: thanks! yes, i've been wondering what is the best criteria for tor, was thinking "addrlocal contains .onion"
166 2020-07-17T12:10:39  <wumpus> that's an interesting criterion; on one hand i think that works? on the other, it relies fully on what the peer sends for your local address, not the actual network circumstances
167 2020-07-17T12:14:18  <jonatack> I'm looking at how to make CConnman::AttemptToEvictConnection() Tor-aware
168 2020-07-17T12:15:06  <jonatack> so how to know which inbounds are onion conns
169 2020-07-17T12:15:08  <wumpus> the only real solution to this would be #8973
170 2020-07-17T12:15:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8973 | Incoming tor connections should use alternative port · Issue #8973 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
171 2020-07-17T12:15:31  <wumpus> incoming tor connections to use an alternative, local-only port or even better, a UNIX socket to connect
172 2020-07-17T12:16:47  <wumpus> jonatack: but until that i guess some kind of 'connects to AND has .onion in addrlocal' heuristic works fine
173 2020-07-17T12:17:14  <wumpus> i do think that for eviction, only using 'what addrlocal it sends' is too easy to manipulate
174 2020-07-17T12:17:16  <jonatack> super helpful -- i'll see what i can do with that
175 2020-07-17T12:18:46  <jonatack> would a mix of 'connects to AND has .onion in addrlocal' be manipulable?
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177 2020-07-17T12:21:12  <jonatack> idea being to specifically protect some onions so they aren't penalised for higher minping / lower uptime vis-a-vis clearnet peers
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179 2020-07-17T12:24:30  <jnewbery> wumpus: can you wait for cfields to review before merging 19542 please?
180 2020-07-17T12:26:39  <cfields> I was just commenting there... will review in detail today. I suspect I was wrong with the concept nack anyway...
181 2020-07-17T12:26:56  <cfields> it's not a big deal, though.
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183 2020-07-17T12:28:02  <jnewbery> cfields: thanks!
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185 2020-07-17T12:30:17  <cfields> np, these things happen :)
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187 2020-07-17T12:33:06  <wumpus> yes, though, "this causes a few PRs to need to be rebased" was another reason to be cautious about merging it in the first place
188 2020-07-17T12:34:32  <wumpus> I think we should avoid doing these kind of mass data type changes unless there is a really good rationale and people agree about doing it
189 2020-07-17T12:34:50  <wumpus> "increases code quality" is kind of subjective
190 2020-07-17T12:38:21  <wumpus> if it's uncontroversial and doesn't impact other people's work, okay, but not sure about this
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193 2020-07-17T12:48:19  <jnewbery> wumpus: yes, agree. When I wrote my ACK I originally had a comment about not merging immediately because of conflicts, but I deleted that because I didn't want to tell the maintainers how to do their job
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202 2020-07-17T13:02:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 commit to 0.20: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f61398a978ba...8b4093749312
203 2020-07-17T13:02:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 8b40937 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Fix QFileDialog for static builds
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224 2020-07-17T13:39:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to 0.20: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8b4093749312...cac7a9809a3d
225 2020-07-17T13:39:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 cd34ff5 Wladimir J. van der Laan: build: Bump version to 0.20.1rc1
226 2020-07-17T13:39:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 5e21c55 Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: Regenerate man pages for 0.20.1rc1
227 2020-07-17T13:39:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 cac7a98 Wladimir J. van der Laan: qt: Translation update for 0.20.1rc1
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231 2020-07-17T13:42:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed tag v0.20.1rc1: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.20.1rc1
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233 2020-07-17T13:42:42  <wumpus> ^^
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235 2020-07-17T13:46:23  <hebasto> \o/
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237 2020-07-17T13:49:52  <instagibbs> huzzah
238 2020-07-17T13:49:56  <jonatack> time to git yer gitian on
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251 2020-07-17T14:46:05  <MarcoFalke> when merging I do check all conflicts for reviews, and in this case, all of the conflicts had either, no review, didn't compile, or didn't pass the test suite. So in all cases a rebase or force push wouldn't have been harmful or was needed anyway.
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258 2020-07-17T15:05:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c04485850e72...fd59670642f5
259 2020-07-17T15:05:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9a2f126 Hennadii Stepanov: ci: Add tsan suppression for race in DatabaseBatch
260 2020-07-17T15:05:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0cdf2a7 Russell Yanofsky: ci: add tsan debug symbols option
261 2020-07-17T15:05:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fd59670 MarcoFalke: Merge #19538: ci: Add tsan suppression for race in DatabaseBatch
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264 2020-07-17T15:05:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19538: ci: Add tsan suppression for race in DatabaseBatch (master...200716-tsan-db) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19538
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312 2020-07-17T16:43:31  <achow101> hebasto: I'm seeing a mismatch on your osx build
313 2020-07-17T16:44:08  <achow101> - 6e0b29839f86c60bdb4e557ef85339075738d61c6feda333a9c23056f8c4bc32  bitcoin-0.20.1rc1-osx-unsigned.tar.gz
314 2020-07-17T16:44:08  <achow101> + 5c1f306192674c607bf44dad4a864e99fcfbef262934d19f93ea5af710595096  bitcoin-0.20.1rc1-osx-unsigned.tar.gz
315 2020-07-17T16:46:02  <hebasto> due to the OS upgrade the LXC was also upgraded from 3.0.3 to 4.0.2 -- probably this is an issue. Investigating...
316 2020-07-17T16:47:50  <achow101> can you upload the tarfile somewhere?
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320 2020-07-17T16:54:16  <hebasto> achow101: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FUav60VVO1mBjvyCteRO1IFfcYUTyAbP/view?usp=sharing
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323 2020-07-17T16:56:41  <hebasto> achow101: the second run produced the same hashes for macOS files
324 2020-07-17T16:58:23  <achow101> the tarfile is actually the one that gets used in signing. it can be found in gitian-builder/inputs
325 2020-07-17T16:58:33  <achow101> it's not actually one of the output files
326 2020-07-17T16:58:56  <hebasto> oops, reupload now
327 2020-07-17T17:00:46  <hebasto> achow101: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19E2gTo4EJFdnG8iaMzcPmULDJbGd_t5_/view?usp=sharing
328 2020-07-17T17:00:51  <hebasto> this one?
329 2020-07-17T17:01:26  <achow101> yes
330 2020-07-17T17:03:47  <hebasto> achow101: SDK also are different
331 2020-07-17T17:05:29  <hebasto> mine is https://bitcoincore.org/depends-sources/sdks/MacOSX10.14.sdk.tar.gz
332 2020-07-17T17:05:51  <achow101> I think it's expected that the sdk is different due to its construction
333 2020-07-17T17:06:12  <achow101> the difference here is in the genisoimage file in the tarball
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335 2020-07-17T17:06:41  <achow101> iirc that's something from the depends build
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343 2020-07-17T17:13:40  <achow101> maybe clean the cache and rebuild?
344 2020-07-17T17:13:43  <hebasto> achow101 did you re-build depends or used cached ones?
345 2020-07-17T17:14:14  <hebasto> oh, the same idea :)
346 2020-07-17T17:14:39  <achow101> i'm doing a rebuild with a clean cache
347 2020-07-17T17:14:40  <hebasto> I built from scratch
348 2020-07-17T17:16:56  <MarcoFalke> Current asserts are: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/blob/master/0.20.1rc1-osx-unsigned/hebasto/bitcoin-core-osx-0.20-build.assert and https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/blob/master/0.20.1rc1-osx-unsigned/emzy/bitcoin-core-osx-0.20-build.assert  and  https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/blob/master/0.20.1rc1-osx-unsigned/achow101/bitcoin-core-osx-0.20-build.assert
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350 2020-07-17T17:19:31  <MarcoFalke> yeah, looks like the caches are different
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352 2020-07-17T17:20:17  <MarcoFalke> oh that makes sense
353 2020-07-17T17:20:23  <MarcoFalke> the qt cache is obviously invalid
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356 2020-07-17T17:21:57  <MarcoFalke> oh wait, no. depends should detect when a package description changes
357 2020-07-17T17:22:39  <midnight> dangit. we're using he new Mac SDK tarball now- but it won't let an end-user download the necessary files without setting up 2FA; except part of 2FA is a trusted phone number which I haven't been convinced yet is safe from simjacking. I'm not entirely sure that requiring a user to enable simjacking on their account is tenable for gitian builders concerned about their account security.
358 2020-07-17T17:24:12  <MarcoFalke> no idea what's going on. Needs more diffoscope I guess
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360 2020-07-17T17:25:48  <provoostenator> midnight: that's annoying. I don't understand why Apple insists on putting these files behind a registration wall.
361 2020-07-17T17:25:50  <achow101> diffoscope of genisoimage https://0bin.net/paste/lt+TgdvNOBuzc2if#kHgLgivqTORFiOANKNMYWwOK0IHFkPSqIP-O1WVQFAc
362 2020-07-17T17:26:05  <achow101> everything else in the tarball matches
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364 2020-07-17T17:27:32  <midnight> :-(
365 2020-07-17T17:28:13  <hebasto> achow101: what does mean that diff?
366 2020-07-17T17:28:39  <achow101> it's the diff between the two genisoimage binaries
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368 2020-07-17T17:29:15  <hebasto> I mean what is the root of that diff?
369 2020-07-17T17:29:31  <achow101> it looks like the difference between the readelf outputs, so probably symbol differences?
370 2020-07-17T17:29:57  <achow101> i'm not sure
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372 2020-07-17T17:33:13  <achow101> ok.. I got the same result after cleaning the cache
373 2020-07-17T17:33:17  <achow101> *same result as hebasto
374 2020-07-17T17:34:20  <hebasto> hmm, why cache re-build was not triggered?
375 2020-07-17T17:34:39  <achow101> sometimes it happens
376 2020-07-17T17:35:07  <achow101> it may also be that one of the build tools changed and not the dependency itself
377 2020-07-17T17:35:17  <achow101> and so the output changed as well
378 2020-07-17T17:35:21  <midnight> Looks like the only real answer is to buy (as anonymously as possible) an SMS-aware new number and then..  **never tell anybody what it is**.. so appleid's 2fa potentially vuln to simjacking (still) via recovery sms. hrm.
379 2020-07-17T17:37:15  <achow101> I think emzy will need to rebuild then as he had the same result I did
380 2020-07-17T17:37:56  <achow101> midnight: I think there's a prebuilt sdk somewhere if you don't want to construct it yourself
381 2020-07-17T17:38:34  <hebasto> midnight:  https://bitcoincore.org/depends-sources/sdks/MacOSX10.14.sdk.tar.gz
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384 2020-07-17T17:49:05  <midnight> I saw that. I'm waffling between setting up a pin-protected additional anti-porting number and using the one you guys are using. I'd prefer to maintain independent binary builds as much as possible, jut one of those habits I have like bothering people for additional publishing evidence re: their gitian key. :)
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388 2020-07-17T17:50:25  <midnight> (also exercises the SDK construction instructions while I'm at it)
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397 2020-07-17T18:28:44  <emzy> achow101: how did you fixed it?
398 2020-07-17T18:29:05  <achow101> emzy: deleted gitian-builder/cache and rebuilt
399 2020-07-17T18:30:35  <emzy> achow101: ok. I will do that.
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407 2020-07-17T19:00:08  <provoostenator> wallet meeting?
408 2020-07-17T19:00:14  <meshcollider> #startmeeting
409 2020-07-17T19:00:14  <lightningbot> Meeting started Fri Jul 17 19:00:14 2020 UTC.  The chair is meshcollider. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
410 2020-07-17T19:00:14  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
411 2020-07-17T19:00:17  <achow101> hi
412 2020-07-17T19:00:18  <meshcollider> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball ariard digi_james amiti fjahr
413 2020-07-17T19:00:18  <meshcollider> jeremyrubin emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55
414 2020-07-17T19:00:18  <provoostenator> hi
415 2020-07-17T19:00:49  <emzy> hi
416 2020-07-17T19:00:56  <meshcollider> Any topic suggestions?
417 2020-07-17T19:01:19  <meshcollider> I don't remember anything being suggested during the weeks
418 2020-07-17T19:02:39  <achow101> 2020-06-19.log:16:10 < bsm117532> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic descriptor specification for watch-only wallets, and repeated payments without address use via BIP32 paths
419 2020-07-17T19:03:02  <meshcollider> Is bsm117532 around?
420 2020-07-17T19:04:04  <meshcollider> I guess not
421 2020-07-17T19:04:36  <achow101> hmm, that was from a while ago
422 2020-07-17T19:04:44  <achow101> did we skip a meeting?
423 2020-07-17T19:05:12  <meshcollider> No, but we may have missed the topic?
424 2020-07-17T19:05:35  <achow101> probably
425 2020-07-17T19:05:37  <meshcollider> achow101: do you want to talk a bit about current status of SQLite replacement
426 2020-07-17T19:05:43  <achow101> ok
427 2020-07-17T19:06:15  <meshcollider> And provoostenator maybe want to talk about your current goals? Maybe current state of hardware wallet stuff?
428 2020-07-17T19:06:30  <provoostenator> Sure, but not much changed.
429 2020-07-17T19:06:33  <achow101> #19334 is nominally the last step before the sqlite PR (#19077) is ready
430 2020-07-17T19:06:36  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19334 | wallet: Introduce WalletDatabase abstract class by achow101 · Pull Request #19334 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
431 2020-07-17T19:06:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19077 | wallet: Add sqlite as an alternative wallet database and use it for new descriptor wallets by achow101 · Pull Request #19077 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
432 2020-07-17T19:06:53  <provoostenator> I'd like some feedback on #16378 now that most of its prerequisites are merged.
433 2020-07-17T19:06:55  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16378 | The ultimate send RPC by Sjors · Pull Request #16378 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
434 2020-07-17T19:06:55  <achow101> but I'd like to do #19335 and #19102 first
435 2020-07-17T19:06:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19335 | wallet: Cleanup and separate BerkeleyDatabase and BerkeleyBatch by achow101 · Pull Request #19335 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
436 2020-07-17T19:06:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19102 | wallet: Introduce and use DummyDatabase instead of dummy BerkeleyDatabase by achow101 · Pull Request #19102 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
437 2020-07-17T19:07:07  <achow101> both of those need 19334
438 2020-07-17T19:07:39  <provoostenator> Still waiting for more blessings (and re-reviews) of #15382
439 2020-07-17T19:07:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15382 | util: add RunCommandParseJSON by Sjors · Pull Request #15382 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
440 2020-07-17T19:08:32  <meshcollider> Ah yes!
441 2020-07-17T19:08:43  <meshcollider> I almost forgot about that one
442 2020-07-17T19:08:51  <provoostenator> I see it needs _another_ rebase...
443 2020-07-17T19:09:55  <meshcollider> Do either of the new projects need updating with new PRs btw?
444 2020-07-17T19:10:10  <provoostenator> Oh and I need to work something out with AppVeyor :-)
445 2020-07-17T19:10:30  <phantomcircuit> i dont really see the purpose of sqlite as a backend unless the database interface is changed to actively query the database when you need things
446 2020-07-17T19:10:43  <phantomcircuit> for sure sqlite is better than bdb, but are we really going to drop bdb support?
447 2020-07-17T19:10:57  <provoostenator> meshcollider: the merged stuff can go: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/15
448 2020-07-17T19:11:03  <achow101> meshcollider: 19334 and 19335 need to be added
449 2020-07-17T19:11:03  <jonatack> hi
450 2020-07-17T19:11:27  <achow101> phantomcircuit: the goal is to actively query the database at some point
451 2020-07-17T19:11:28  <provoostenator> phantomcircuit: there's some earlier (IRC) discussion about this, which should probably be linked from that PR
452 2020-07-17T19:11:37  <achow101> and maybe use the relational stuff too
453 2020-07-17T19:12:06  <achow101> I would like to drop bdb eventually
454 2020-07-17T19:12:14  <phantomcircuit> achow101, sure, but that's going to require significant changes to the way the wallet works, also im not sure how useful that's really going to be, even for huge wallets
455 2020-07-17T19:12:35  <sipa> i don't think the actual db stuff is useful
456 2020-07-17T19:12:36  <sipa> for us
457 2020-07-17T19:12:52  <achow101> phantomcircuit: my next major project is going to be significant changes to how transactions and stored and loaded (i.e. not loading every single tx into memory)
458 2020-07-17T19:12:56  <sipa> but i think sqlite is just the most well-tested storage layer thete is
459 2020-07-17T19:13:29  <sipa> exactly designed for the sort of app-level compatibility requirements we have
460 2020-07-17T19:13:47  <phantomcircuit> achow101, you need to have all of the script pubkeys to quickly scan a block, is it really going to reduce memory usage that much to avoid loading the entire transaction?
461 2020-07-17T19:14:01  <achow101> phantomcircuit: transactions are big, keys are small
462 2020-07-17T19:14:23  <phantomcircuit> sipa, sure and i agree that sqlite is *better* than bdb, but we're gonna end up supporting both forever and that seems kind of sad to me
463 2020-07-17T19:14:34  <achow101> rescans are usually a one time thing, not something people do routinely
464 2020-07-17T19:14:48  <sipa> phantomcircuit: i'd day that in maybe 2-3 years the bdb support can move to some comversion tool
465 2020-07-17T19:15:19  <phantomcircuit> achow101, you need the script pubkeys to scan a block as they come in
466 2020-07-17T19:15:36  <meshcollider> Yeah we talked about that before, eventually it should be okay
467 2020-07-17T19:15:44  <phantomcircuit> if you're reloading those from the database every time you see a new block, you're gonna have a bad time (tm)
468 2020-07-17T19:16:27  <achow101> phantomcircuit: sure. for now, everything is still being loaded into memory. I would like to move the less used stuff like old txs, address book data, etc. to be loaded as needed
469 2020-07-17T19:16:59  <meshcollider> This also reminds me of #16910
470 2020-07-17T19:17:00  <achow101> you don't need to load that tx where every output has already been spent. we don't need those unless someone is digging through their history, in which case we can fetch it. and that doesn't really need to be performant
471 2020-07-17T19:17:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16910 | wallet: reduce loading time by using unordered maps by achow101 · Pull Request #16910 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
472 2020-07-17T19:17:12  <meshcollider> We should try and get that in
473 2020-07-17T19:17:14  <phantomcircuit> sure, but it seems like that work, which is certainly more annoying to do, should be done before adding another database format
474 2020-07-17T19:17:33  <sipa> phantomcircuit: seems orthogonal to me
475 2020-07-17T19:17:54  <achow101> I don't see how they're related
476 2020-07-17T19:18:15  <achow101> now seems to be a good-ish time to introduce sqlite wallets for descriptor wallets only because that's a new thing for storage
477 2020-07-17T19:18:16  <meshcollider> Plus the database work has already been done so it's kinda too late to say that ;)
478 2020-07-17T19:19:41  <phantomcircuit> what's the point of another database unless you can leverage that it's a relational database?
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480 2020-07-17T19:20:12  <achow101> well the point is to get away from bdb
481 2020-07-17T19:20:17  <achow101> at least initially
482 2020-07-17T19:20:28  <sipa> phantomcircuit: no crazy flushing all the time to harness bdb in not needing active maintenance
483 2020-07-17T19:20:35  <sipa> phantomcircuit: not needing db environments
484 2020-07-17T19:20:48  <sipa> not needing a whole directory per wallet
485 2020-07-17T19:21:00  <sipa> not relying on 10 year old software
486 2020-07-17T19:23:02  <achow101> meshcollider: I think 18971 can be moved to "Design" in the sqlite project
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490 2020-07-17T19:23:55  <meshcollider> achow101: done
491 2020-07-17T19:24:20  <meshcollider> sipa: is there any wallet relevant discussion re taproot at this stage?
492 2020-07-17T19:24:41  <meshcollider> I've vaguely seen a lot more activity around it on twitter
493 2020-07-17T19:25:05  <achow101> can we support taproot for descriptor wallets only?
494 2020-07-17T19:25:12  <sipa> achow101: yes please
495 2020-07-17T19:25:28  <sipa> meshcollider: not at this stage, i think
496 2020-07-17T19:25:32  <provoostenator> Whaha, did anyone seriously think of adding taproot to legacy wallets?
497 2020-07-17T19:25:32  <achow101> it would just mean the only waallet changes are descriptor changes
498 2020-07-17T19:25:33  <achow101> I think
499 2020-07-17T19:26:02  <provoostenator> We're still cleaning up the complexity from adding SegWit to that...
500 2020-07-17T19:26:07  <sipa> things like musig signing integration may be a bit more involved, as it requires stateful signers
501 2020-07-17T19:26:20  <sipa> but even that doesn't need to be supported in a very initial versiin
502 2020-07-17T19:26:20  <provoostenator> Musig would be real cool
503 2020-07-17T19:26:31  <sipa> it'll be a lot easier with musig2 ;)
504 2020-07-17T19:27:32  <meshcollider> What's musig2?
505 2020-07-17T19:29:07  <sipa> an improved version that is as of yet unpublished, but only needs 2 rounds, and supports transparent nesting (so if you have musig-in-musig you don't need to reveal to your cosigners that you in fact consist of multiple signers yourself)
506 2020-07-17T19:30:36  <meshcollider> Ooh that sounds very nice
507 2020-07-17T19:31:45  <meshcollider> With the same security assumptions as musig?
508 2020-07-17T19:31:55  <sipa> mostly
509 2020-07-17T19:33:07  <meshcollider> Cool, I like forward to seeing it
510 2020-07-17T19:33:09  <sipa> we should have more to show soon (real_or_random and nickler really)
511 2020-07-17T19:33:23  <meshcollider> Any other topics?
512 2020-07-17T19:34:18  <meshcollider> #endmeeting
513 2020-07-17T19:34:18  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Fri Jul 17 19:34:18 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
514 2020-07-17T19:34:18  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-07-17-19.00.html
515 2020-07-17T19:34:18  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-07-17-19.00.txt
516 2020-07-17T19:34:18  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-07-17-19.00.log.html
517 2020-07-17T19:36:30  <provoostenator> sipa: infinite nesting?
518 2020-07-17T19:37:42  <sipa> provoostenator: yes
519 2020-07-17T19:38:31  <provoostenator> Threshold too?
520 2020-07-17T19:39:58  <sipa> it probably helps as a basis for threshold schemes too, but i don't think there is much actual work on that
521 2020-07-17T19:48:08  <phantomcircuit> sipa, yes i can see why sqlite is better than bdb, but without completely dropping support i dont see how you get any of the advantages
522 2020-07-17T19:48:51  <sipa> phantomcircuit: i think all of those advantages matter to everyone who uses it
523 2020-07-17T19:49:18  <sipa> the only thing that we don't get is dropping the complexity and dependency on bdb, which unfortunately needs to wait
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525 2020-07-17T19:56:59  <achow101> phantomcircuit: at the very least, all of the bdb nonsense is shoved into its own self contained corner
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531 2020-07-17T20:11:11  <bsm117532> Sorry, missed that ping re: wallet descriptors.
532 2020-07-17T20:11:46  <bsm117532> Is anyone else interested in this idea? (Basically, making usable xpubs for watch-only wallets)
533 2020-07-17T20:12:10  <sipa> that's the point of descriptors
534 2020-07-17T20:12:40  <bsm117532> I know. I'm basically talking about slightly formalizing a descriptor specification and recommending its usage in this way.
535 2020-07-17T20:12:54  <bsm117532> Has anyone besides bitcoind implemented descriptors?
536 2020-07-17T20:14:15  <sipa> i'm hesitant about formalizing descriptors, as i expect there is still a lot of unexplored terrain there
537 2020-07-17T20:14:45  <sipa> and aiming for compatibility at this point may set unreasonable expectations and/or complicate improvements
538 2020-07-17T20:15:09  <sipa> especially with miniscript extending the language significantly
539 2020-07-17T20:15:11  <bsm117532> Well then let's explore it. ;-)
540 2020-07-17T20:15:23  <bsm117532> What would you want to see @sipa?
541 2020-07-17T20:15:28  <sipa> ?
542 2020-07-17T20:16:04  <sipa> i just mean we'll likely encounter more use cases and think "oh i wish this could have made it into the descriptors spec"
543 2020-07-17T20:16:17  <sipa> so i'd rather have it develop organically for a while
544 2020-07-17T20:16:56  <achow101> we might need some kind of versioning then
545 2020-07-17T20:17:39  <achow101> but even just adding new expressions just means that older software throws an error saying it doesn't recognize the descriptor
546 2020-07-17T20:17:54  <sipa> my thinking is that a first step of standardization is having some repository of its supported keywords, but have all of them optional
547 2020-07-17T20:17:55  <bsm117532> Well I guess then I'm dumping "watch only wallet descriptors" as a use case, at a minimum, and I'd like to see it developed toward a spec and BIP for wallet interoperability.
548 2020-07-17T20:18:20  <sipa> so that different software can choose to implement a subset
549 2020-07-17T20:18:42  <sipa> and a descriptor will either do the right thing, or fail to parse
550 2020-07-17T20:19:08  <sipa> bsm117532: yes, but which descriptors?
551 2020-07-17T20:19:21  <sipa> do you mean wsh-multisig only?
552 2020-07-17T20:19:39  <bsm117532> The basics encompassing x/y/z pubs, and multisig would be a great start.
553 2020-07-17T20:19:39  <sipa> or also 2fa timelocked htlc-based fancy wallets?
554 2020-07-17T20:20:03  <sipa> bsm117532: if you use the term ypub/zpub you've missed the point
555 2020-07-17T20:20:09  <bsm117532> how so?
556 2020-07-17T20:20:30  <sipa> xpubs encode public keys, not what scripts to build with them
557 2020-07-17T20:20:44  <sipa> ypub/zpub are imho a silly attempt at doing so, in a completely non-existible way
558 2020-07-17T20:20:55  <sipa> descriptors replace that
559 2020-07-17T20:21:00  <bsm117532> Of course, so restrict to the most basic of wallets: P2(W)PKH and multisig.
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561 2020-07-17T20:21:28  <sipa> pretty sure that all works fine in anything that supports descriptors
562 2020-07-17T20:21:29  <bsm117532> Another major problem is keypaths which are highly non-standard (but descriptors take care of).
563 2020-07-17T20:21:44  <bsm117532> Point is, almost nothing supports descriptors at present. ;-)
564 2020-07-17T20:21:51  <sipa> yes
565 2020-07-17T20:21:56  <sipa> that's ok
566 2020-07-17T20:22:38  <bsm117532> Would you be opposed to a restricted descriptor specification encompassing P2(W)PKH, multisig P2(W)SH, and corresponding keypaths, solely for watch-only wallets? Scripts can be added later.
567 2020-07-17T20:23:12  <sipa> that's literally exactly what is supported now
568 2020-07-17T20:23:28  <bsm117532> I know, but the point is to make a BIP and get other wallets to support it too. ;-)
569 2020-07-17T20:23:42  <sipa> nack
570 2020-07-17T20:23:45  <bsm117532> why?
571 2020-07-17T20:24:06  <sipa> i really fear that will make it impossible to make it do actually cool things later
572 2020-07-17T20:24:31  <sipa> without everyone going "oh, but can't use that because wallet service X only supports multi/sg/wsh descriptors"
573 2020-07-17T20:25:05  <bsm117532> We're going to be stuck with those kinds of wallets for a long time to come, probably forever though.
574 2020-07-17T20:25:25  <bsm117532> Arbitrary scripts are an interesting goal, but I think not practical for widespread support.
575 2020-07-17T20:25:50  <bsm117532> sipa: what more do you want to add or envision arising for descriptors?
576 2020-07-17T20:26:34  <sipa> i'm hopeful that if descriptors are a bit more mature, and there are libraries in multiple languages with reasonable implementations, then pushing for standardization will result in far more actually usable features
577 2020-07-17T20:26:47  <sipa> bsm117532: at the very least, miniscript
578 2020-07-17T20:27:58  <sipa> or a good formalism for dealing with extensions beyond that
579 2020-07-17T20:29:55  <bsm117532> I would like the ability to easily export watch-only wallets, even independent of descriptors and miniscript. Forward-translating any spec for that into a more advanced descriptor or miniscript will always be straightforward.
580 2020-07-17T20:30:52  <sipa> ok?
581 2020-07-17T20:31:09  <sipa> so you're essentially saying you don't need a standard :)
582 2020-07-17T20:31:40  <bsm117532> Standards are about interoperability...so yes, we need a standard.
583 2020-07-17T20:31:53  <bsm117532> Even if it's overly simple compared to what's possible.
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594 2020-07-17T21:25:15  <achow101> wumpus also has the same osx mismatch
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599 2020-07-17T21:52:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fjahr opened pull request #19544: refactor: Add GetBool to rpc/util (master...rpc_bool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19544
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