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  3 2020-07-29T00:00:27  <sdaftuar> well, i dunno, the wtxidrelay code was originally written before the 0.20 branchoff, so backporting shouldn't be terrible, but it's a much bigger change than i think necessary, so just wanted to mention other alternatives
  4 2020-07-29T00:01:41  <sipa> it's probably independently useful to make AreInputsStandard reject WITNESS_UNKNOWN- it's not a semantics change as such spends are rejected by the script verifier anyway, but it'd make that happen before script execution is triggered
  5 2020-07-29T00:03:23  <aj> jnewbery has a draft backport of wtxid relay already fwiw
  6 2020-07-29T00:04:12  <sdaftuar> yeah i agree with that. if we did make that change, that would help with the transaction-change case that came up in wtxid-relay review, i think ariard flagged it. ie a taproot transaction has a child transaction, that causes pre-taproot nodes to redownlaod the parent (as a txid) repeatedly, only to reject
  7 2020-07-29T00:04:20  <sdaftuar> transaction-chain*
  8 2020-07-29T00:05:30  <sipa> ah, good point
  9 2020-07-29T00:05:32  <sipa> i missed that
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 16 2020-07-29T00:08:02  <sdaftuar> if we are serious about backporting, we should get your follow on pr merged too, as i guess we'd wnat to backport that as well?
 17 2020-07-29T00:08:26  <sdaftuar> i have a PR that conflicts with yours and would make the backport worse if it were merged first
 18 2020-07-29T00:10:16  <aj> oh, jnewbery pr'd already #19606
 19 2020-07-29T00:10:18  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19606 | Backport wtxid relay to v0.20 by jnewbery · Pull Request #19606 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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101 2020-07-29T03:04:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #19617: doc: Clang 8 or later is required with FORCE_USE_SYSTEM_CLANG (master...note_that_clang_8_is_required_with_force_system_clang) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19617
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109 2020-07-29T03:40:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheBlueMatt closed pull request #15481: Restrict timestamp when mining a diff-adjustment block to prev-600 (master...2019-02-600s-gbt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15481
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125 2020-07-29T04:29:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #19518: Simplify IsFinalTx logic. (master...IsFinalTx) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19518
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128 2020-07-29T05:19:29  <achow101> did gmax's github get hacked?
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130 2020-07-29T05:22:21  <jeremyrubin> no I think he's just goofin' while doing mutation testing
131 2020-07-29T05:23:42  <achow101> half of it seemed incomprehensible
132 2020-07-29T05:31:55  <aj> maybe gmax's brain got snowcrashed
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135 2020-07-29T05:51:31  <sipa> achow101: pretty sure it's him :)
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137 2020-07-29T05:54:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a41ae6805338...2f71a1ea3566
138 2020-07-29T05:54:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b223111 James O'Beirne: txdb: add CCoinsViewDB::ChangeCacheSize
139 2020-07-29T05:54:27  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f36aaa6 James O'Beirne: Add CChainState::ResizeCoinsCaches
140 2020-07-29T05:54:28  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8ac3ef4 James O'Beirne: add ChainstateManager::MaybeRebalanceCaches()
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143 2020-07-29T05:55:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18637: coins: allow cache resize after init (master...2020-04-au.cache-resize) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18637
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146 2020-07-29T06:08:33  <jonatack> #19590 haz acks by jonasschnelli, vasild and theStack if anyone iz inna mergin mood
147 2020-07-29T06:08:34  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19590 | p2p, refactor: add `CInv` transaction message helpers; use in net processing by jonatack · Pull Request #19590 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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153 2020-07-29T06:51:58  <Kiminuo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17977#issuecomment-665415974 - playful mood?
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210 2020-07-29T11:13:21  <instagibbs> achow101, 1337 h4x3d maeb3
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217 2020-07-29T11:32:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2f71a1ea3566...a76ccb01b964
218 2020-07-29T11:32:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 100c64a Vasil Dimov: net: document `enum Network`
219 2020-07-29T11:32:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bcfebb6 Vasil Dimov: net: save the network type explicitly in CNetAddr
220 2020-07-29T11:32:13  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a76ccb0 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19534: net: save the network type explicitly in CNetAddr
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223 2020-07-29T11:32:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19534: net: save the network type explicitly in CNetAddr (master...explicit_network_type_in_CNetAddr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19534
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245 2020-07-29T13:21:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #19619: Remove wallet.dat path handling from wallet.cpp, rpcwallet.cpp (master...pr/path) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19619
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249 2020-07-29T13:24:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] instagibbs closed pull request #19520: refactor: Rename signal TransactionRemovedFromMempool to better describe behavior (master...not_block) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19520
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278 2020-07-29T14:53:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a76ccb01b964...400f45ec9bab
279 2020-07-29T14:53:37  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2e9e637 fanquake: build: add -Wl,-z,separate-code to hardening flags
280 2020-07-29T14:53:38  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 65d0f1a Wladimir J. van der Laan: devtools: Add security check for separate_code
281 2020-07-29T14:53:39  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 400f45e Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #19525: build: add -Wl,-z,separate-code to hardening flags
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284 2020-07-29T14:54:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19525: build: add -Wl,-z,separate-code to hardening flags (master...z_separate_code) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19525
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312 2020-07-29T15:38:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #19620: Add txids with non-standard inputs to reject filter (master...2020-07-reject-unknown-wit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19620
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320 2020-07-29T16:04:29  <phantomcircuit> achow101, he's been very amused by https://github.com/openai/gpt-3 recently
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332 2020-07-29T16:24:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/400f45ec9bab...8db23349fe9b
333 2020-07-29T16:24:47  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 65fb880 Andrew Chow: Combine BerkeleyEnvironment::Verify into BerkeleyDatabase::Verify
334 2020-07-29T16:24:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4fe4b3b Andrew Chow: walletdb: track database file use as m_refcount within BerkeleyDatabase
335 2020-07-29T16:24:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d86efab Andrew Chow: walletdb: Move Db->open to BerkeleyDatabase::Open
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339 2020-07-29T16:25:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #19335: wallet: Cleanup and separate BerkeleyDatabase and BerkeleyBatch (master...bdb-cleanup-refactors) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19335
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347 2020-07-29T17:05:02  <wumpus> taproot implementation review meeting in #bitcoin-core-pr-review now
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352 2020-07-29T17:23:32  <CubicEarth> wumpus: channel seems empty
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354 2020-07-29T17:24:14  <sipa> it's #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews
355 2020-07-29T17:24:17  <sipa> with an s
356 2020-07-29T17:24:21  <wumpus> oh sorry
357 2020-07-29T17:24:42  <sipa> see https://bitcoincore.reviews/
358 2020-07-29T17:25:29  <CubicEarth> thanks :)
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361 2020-07-29T17:40:57  <jnewbery> sorry for the stupidly verbose channel name!
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386 2020-07-29T19:55:53  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ariard opened pull request #19621: [RFC] Package-relay : sender-initiated (master...2020-07-sender-package-relay-poc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19621
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403 2020-07-29T21:02:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #19622: build: Drop ancient hack in gitian-linux descriptor (master...200729-multilib) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19622
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419 2020-07-29T22:35:10  <jeremyrubin> sipa: do we have a p2p version such that we can inform peers we only want to receive txs without any v1 inputs?
420 2020-07-29T22:37:10  <sipa> jeremyrubin: in general there is no way to negotiate relay policy with peers
421 2020-07-29T22:37:19  <sipa> and we in general have no knowledge about it
422 2020-07-29T22:37:48  <sipa> the only exceptions are (1) segwit, which introduced a p2p change along with a consensus change and (2) bip133 feefilter
423 2020-07-29T22:38:17  <sipa> as far as i know
424 2020-07-29T22:38:48  <jeremyrubin> Why not do this? Would save a lot of bandwidth right?
425 2020-07-29T22:39:26  <sipa> well conceptually it's pretty strange, as the protocol cannot provide any guarantees about relay
426 2020-07-29T22:39:33  <sipa> nodes are free to choose whatever rules
427 2020-07-29T22:40:35  <jeremyrubin> Is it though? feefilter is similar right?
428 2020-07-29T22:40:55  <sipa> so i'd feel uncomfortable with trying to do this explicitly... but for common cases it may make sense (not as a way to try to predict the full policy, but a "heads up: i'm not interesting in transactions with property X"
429 2020-07-29T22:42:14  <jeremyrubin> yeah i think we could make/backport an inputfilter message
430 2020-07-29T22:42:52  <jeremyrubin> and you can add a couple useful ones, e.g. witness version, tapleaf version. Anything that is O(1) to answer about a txn you have
431 2020-07-29T22:42:57  <sipa> i'm not sure it's needed post wtxidrelay
432 2020-07-29T22:43:20  <jeremyrubin> Well with wtxid relay you still get hit with 1 initial tx broadcast of something you don't want
433 2020-07-29T22:43:25  <sipa> sure
434 2020-07-29T22:43:37  <sipa> but that's rate limited by the total confirmation rate of the network
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436 2020-07-29T22:44:12  <sipa> the upper bound isn't changed by receiving and rejecting things that the network will eventually confirm, as long as it doesn't scale with the number of peers
437 2020-07-29T22:45:00  <sipa> (and bandwidth per connection can already be trivially DoS'ed; the solution to that is measuring it, and slowing down processing if exceeded)
438 2020-07-29T22:46:31  <jeremyrubin> :shrugs:
439 2020-07-29T22:47:30  <sipa> my point is: this won't change per-connection bandwidth in attack scenarios
440 2020-07-29T22:47:44  <sipa> the goal should be avoided network-wide bandwidth waste by honest nodes
441 2020-07-29T22:47:53  <jeremyrubin> I think it does actually
442 2020-07-29T22:48:03  <jeremyrubin> Because it gives you a better justification to ban a node
443 2020-07-29T22:48:22  <jeremyrubin> sending you lots of e.g. v3 stuff you can't handle and silently reject
444 2020-07-29T22:48:30  <sipa> there will always things you can't negotiate, e.g. sending transactions with unknown parents
445 2020-07-29T22:50:00  <sipa> and sure, you could set some rate limit on those... but even then, would it be ok if suddenly the entire network would start being bombared with orphans at whatever that limit it?
446 2020-07-29T22:50:58  <sipa> my view is that we shouldn't bother with setting explicit limits on "how" misbehaving a peer is allowed to be; instead we should track how many resources we're spending on behalf of some peer, and if our aggregate resource usage is too high, throttle the worst ones
447 2020-07-29T22:51:33  <sipa> but - that's about attack cases - we should absolutely make p2p affordances to avoid wasting work just through honest nodes behaving correctly
448 2020-07-29T22:51:47  <jeremyrubin> but specifically if we're looking at what we can backport easily to old node versions, allowing a witnessversion filter message would be relatively small to implement the logic to disconnect peers who don't respect it for backport
449 2020-07-29T22:52:05  <jeremyrubin> and only new nodes need to implement the logic around not forwarding it
450 2020-07-29T22:52:15  <sipa> and i believe - but am willing to be convinced otherwise - that wtxidrelay actually already fixes the asymptotic behavior there
451 2020-07-29T22:52:23  <sipa> we can go further to improve the constant factors a bit
452 2020-07-29T22:52:33  <sipa> but i'm not sure that's worth the effort
453 2020-07-29T22:52:38  <sipa> and if so, to what extent
454 2020-07-29T22:53:19  <jeremyrubin> I think it depends on the model
455 2020-07-29T22:53:36  <jeremyrubin> I think it's still possible to get all your peers to relay something to you per-input spent
456 2020-07-29T22:53:54  <jeremyrubin> and a rule banning v1 would make this impossible
457 2020-07-29T22:54:28  <sipa> if they're honest peers, they'll never send you more on average than what can be confirmed by the network (modulo some RBF/expiration epsilon, which have economic incentives against)
458 2020-07-29T22:55:15  <sipa> so sure, maybe 95% of what peers send you you cannot accept if you're too far behind, but the total won't be much different from what you'd be processing in case nobody was using future feature and all those transactions were acceptable to you
459 2020-07-29T22:55:35  <jeremyrubin> So let's say I gossip to the network simultaneously N different txns spending an input X, and assume they spread uniformly. Every peer will attempt to relay a different txn to you right?
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461 2020-07-29T22:56:56  <jeremyrubin> I guess this is true even without v1/v0?
462 2020-07-29T22:57:26  <sipa> yeah - and arguably that's an attack already
463 2020-07-29T22:57:32  <jeremyrubin> Ah
464 2020-07-29T22:57:41  <jeremyrubin> but it's not an attack *by your peers*
465 2020-07-29T22:57:48  <jeremyrubin> it's by a third party somewhere
466 2020-07-29T22:57:50  <sipa> yeah, that's fair
467 2020-07-29T22:58:30  <sipa> but as soon as you're a few steps removed from the attacker, the only nodes who'll end up processing more than 1 version are those on borders of "equal propagation speed" partitions
468 2020-07-29T22:58:49  <sipa> (well, plus 1 version that ends up in a block)
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470 2020-07-29T22:59:38  <jeremyrubin> I guess the general fix for this would be some sort of input tracking relay system
471 2020-07-29T22:59:58  <jeremyrubin> where you know which inputs your peer's mempool is spending, and what feerate they're getting
472 2020-07-29T23:00:12  <jeremyrubin> And decide to relay or not based on that basis
473 2020-07-29T23:00:27  <jeremyrubin> Some bigger notion of understanding conflicts I guess.
474 2020-07-29T23:01:46  <jeremyrubin> Then if you ever see something you don't like for a given input, you can tell your peers you don't want it. Seems complex tho
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