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  8 2020-10-22T00:41:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b46f37ba5ec4...dda18e7310a2
  9 2020-10-22T00:41:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa5f466 MarcoFalke: test: Fix rpc_net intermittent issue
 10 2020-10-22T00:41:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dda18e7 fanquake: Merge #20214: test: Fix rpc_net intermittent issue
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 13 2020-10-22T00:41:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20214: test: Fix rpc_net intermittent issue (master...2010-testFixNet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20214
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 26 2020-10-22T02:37:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #20216: wallet: fix buffer over-read in SQLite file magic check (master...20201022-wallet-fix-sqlite-magic-buffer-overread) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20216
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 55 2020-10-22T07:03:45  <kallewoof> Signet miner now running master. Haven't tested it, but I think this means taproot is activated on signet now
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 80 2020-10-22T08:16:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/dda18e7310a2...1cb4e339f978
 81 2020-10-22T08:16:36  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5aadd4b Prayank: Convert amounts from float to decimal
 82 2020-10-22T08:16:37  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1cb4e33 MarcoFalke: Merge #20039: test: Convert amounts from float to decimal
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 85 2020-10-22T08:16:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20039: test: Convert amounts from float to decimal (master...floatdecimal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20039
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102 2020-10-22T09:04:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1cb4e339f978...7012db2a6bcd
103 2020-10-22T09:04:59  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa3af2c MarcoFalke: test: Fix intermittent issue in p2p_feefilter
104 2020-10-22T09:05:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa5a91a MarcoFalke: test: Fix typo (one tx is enough) in p2p_feefilter
105 2020-10-22T09:05:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7012db2 MarcoFalke: Merge #20176: test: Fix intermittent issue in p2p_feefilter
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109 2020-10-22T09:05:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20176: test: Fix intermittent issue in p2p_feefilter (master...2010-testFixIntIssue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20176
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111 2020-10-22T09:05:21  <gwillen>  /win goto sully
112 2020-10-22T09:05:25  <gwillen> whoops, heh
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146 2020-10-22T11:19:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #20217: net: Remove g_relay_txes (master...2020-10-remove-grelaytxes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20217
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156 2020-10-22T12:20:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7012db2a6bcd...88271184e822
157 2020-10-22T12:20:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa299ac MarcoFalke: test: Speed up wallet_resendwallettransactions test with mockscheduler RPC
158 2020-10-22T12:20:27  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8827118 MarcoFalke: Merge #20112: test: Speed up wallet_resendwallettransactions with mocksche...
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161 2020-10-22T12:20:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20112: test: Speed up wallet_resendwallettransactions with mockscheduler RPC (master...2010-testFasterMock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20112
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165 2020-10-22T12:21:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20218: test: Suppress MaybeCompactWalletDB data race (master...2010-testSuppWalletRace) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20218
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173 2020-10-22T12:37:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #20204: Wallet: Generate UUID for SQLite wallets (master...sqlite_wallet_uuid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20204
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242 2020-10-22T16:57:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #20220: rpc, test, doc: explicit feerate follow-ups (master...explicit-feerate-follow-ups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20220
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245 2020-10-22T17:04:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #20221: net: compat.h related cleanup (master...201022-compat) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20221
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253 2020-10-22T17:50:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ellemouton opened pull request #20222: refactor: CTxMempool constructor clean up (master...ctxmempool_refactor) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20222
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263 2020-10-22T18:23:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #20223: Drop the leading 0 from the version number (master...drop-leading-0) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20223
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266 2020-10-22T18:41:21  <dongcarl> Anyone know of a way to get the DEBUG_LOG out from Travis? Or is it unobtainable?
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272 2020-10-22T18:59:23  <wumpus> #startmeeting
273 2020-10-22T18:59:23  <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 22 18:59:23 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
274 2020-10-22T18:59:23  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
275 2020-10-22T18:59:39  <kanzure> hi
276 2020-10-22T18:59:43  <jnewbery> hello
277 2020-10-22T18:59:47  <emzy> hi
278 2020-10-22T18:59:48  <hebasto> hi
279 2020-10-22T18:59:51  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james
280 2020-10-22T18:59:53  <wumpus> amiti fjahr jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2
281 2020-10-22T19:00:01  <sipa> hi
282 2020-10-22T19:00:04  <jonatack> hi
283 2020-10-22T19:00:22  <jonasschnelli> hi
284 2020-10-22T19:00:23  <wumpus> no topics have been proposed yet in http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt
285 2020-10-22T19:00:40  <wumpus> any last-minute ones?
286 2020-10-22T19:01:05  <sipa> yay for all the work that made it into 0.21
287 2020-10-22T19:01:15  <jnewbery> +1
288 2020-10-22T19:01:15  <wumpus> yes!!!
289 2020-10-22T19:01:32  <achow101> hi
290 2020-10-22T19:01:36  <michaelfolkson> 21.0 not 0.21
291 2020-10-22T19:01:44  <achow101> michaelfolkson: not yet
292 2020-10-22T19:01:47  <michaelfolkson> haha
293 2020-10-22T19:02:10  <wumpus> #topic 0.21 milestone
294 2020-10-22T19:02:15  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A0.21.0
295 2020-10-22T19:02:17  <emzy> I have a DNSSEC setup for dnsseed. Not directly bitcoin core related.
296 2020-10-22T19:02:48  <wumpus> I think this is the high priority for review now
297 2020-10-22T19:03:06  <fjahr> hi
298 2020-10-22T19:03:25  <hebasto> is any way to label with 0.21 milestone prs from the https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui ?
299 2020-10-22T19:03:53  <wumpus> the planned date for the branch split-off and rc1 is 2020-11-01
300 2020-10-22T19:04:06  <wumpus> hebasto: there are no milestones there?
301 2020-10-22T19:04:19  <wumpus> we probably need to create them then
302 2020-10-22T19:05:06  <hebasto> wumpus: no milestones at all
303 2020-10-22T19:05:19  <wumpus> emzy: would DNSSEC help there?
304 2020-10-22T19:06:06  <wumpus> I guess it would hide what results are returned from the DNS seed to the public internet
305 2020-10-22T19:06:15  <emzy> wumpus: was for the last-minute topic list.
306 2020-10-22T19:06:35  <jonatack> perhaps #20220 which has fixes for 0.21 and on which the #19543 work is building
307 2020-10-22T19:06:37  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20220 | wallet, rpc, test: explicit feerate follow-ups by jonatack · Pull Request #20220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
308 2020-10-22T19:06:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19543 | Normalize fee units for RPC ("BTC/kB" and "sat/B) · Issue #19543 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
309 2020-10-22T19:06:52  <wumpus> that's ok, you weren't clear about it being a proposed topic
310 2020-10-22T19:07:09  <emzy> wumpus: it is mainly to add DNSSEC to the sipa seeds.
311 2020-10-22T19:08:00  <wumpus> jonatack: ok added
312 2020-10-22T19:08:05  <emzy> wumpus: not hiding insted signing.
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314 2020-10-22T19:08:49  <achow101> maybe #20205 should be added
315 2020-10-22T19:08:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20205 | wallet: Properly support a wallet id by achow101 · Pull Request #20205 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
316 2020-10-22T19:09:03  <wumpus> right, DNSSEC authenticates it doesn't encrypt, my bad
317 2020-10-22T19:09:35  <wumpus> achow101: is that a bugfix?
318 2020-10-22T19:09:49  <achow101> wumpus: luke-jr argues it is.
319 2020-10-22T19:10:23  <achow101> something about sqlite wallets need unique ids too to not cause problems in the future
320 2020-10-22T19:10:24  <wumpus> you might want to mention this in the PR description, it is currently unclear about the why of the change, in any case, added
321 2020-10-22T19:11:07  <wumpus> hebasto: we definitely need to add the milestones there then
322 2020-10-22T19:11:12  <jonasschnelli> hebasto: I just created the milestones
323 2020-10-22T19:11:23  <hebasto> jonasschnelli: thanks!
324 2020-10-22T19:11:32  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: perfect, thanks!
325 2020-10-22T19:12:58  <hebasto> jonasschnelli: possible candidates for 0.21 https://github.com/users/hebasto/projects/5
326 2020-10-22T19:12:59  <wumpus> okay, moving to emzy's topic
327 2020-10-22T19:13:13  <wumpus> #topic DNSSEC setup for dnsseed
328 2020-10-22T19:13:27  <emzy> Ok. All new here for me to attend.. :)
329 2020-10-22T19:13:45  *** owowo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
330 2020-10-22T19:14:08  <emzy> This is the issue https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19714
331 2020-10-22T19:14:35  <wumpus> #19714
332 2020-10-22T19:14:36  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19714 | ops: Enable DNSSEC on all Bitcoin DNS Seed domain names · Issue #19714 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
333 2020-10-22T19:15:16  <emzy> It's about having DNSSEC on all dnsseeds. Sipas implementation has no dnssec so I made a setup to run it behind a Bind9
334 2020-10-22T19:15:31  *** TallTim has quit IRC
335 2020-10-22T19:15:44  <emzy> The howto to set it up is here: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin-seeder/pull/85
336 2020-10-22T19:16:06  <wumpus> neat
337 2020-10-22T19:16:13  <jonasschnelli> nice emzy. Thanks
338 2020-10-22T19:16:18  <jonasschnelli> Will it only work with bind?
339 2020-10-22T19:16:26  <jonasschnelli> Would there be the chance to get it working it djbdns?
340 2020-10-22T19:16:29  <emzy> Someone needs to check it. I hope it is compleate.
341 2020-10-22T19:16:51  <sipa> emzy: i'll read in more detail later, but how big a batch of IPs does it serve at any point in time?
342 2020-10-22T19:16:54  <emzy> jonasschnelli: if djbdns allows dynamic updates. Yes.
343 2020-10-22T19:17:10  <sipa> (as in, how many get extracted from the seeder and pushed into zonefiles)
344 2020-10-22T19:17:23  <emzy> sipa: it clones the responce from your seeder.
345 2020-10-22T19:17:42  <sipa> but a response only has 20 or so IP addresses
346 2020-10-22T19:17:46  <emzy> maybe better say caches it.
347 2020-10-22T19:17:57  <sipa> i hope it's not serving the same 20 for a whole day?
348 2020-10-22T19:18:05  <emzy> no 1h
349 2020-10-22T19:18:43  <sipa> if there was a way to load more of them into the zone file at once, would bind serve random subsets?
350 2020-10-22T19:18:50  <emzy> could be changed. but the ttl on the sipa seeder is also 1h
351 2020-10-22T19:19:03  <sipa> emzy: yes, but per request - every ISP gets different results
352 2020-10-22T19:19:07  <emzy> ah I see.
353 2020-10-22T19:19:49  <michaelfolkson> practicalswift wants to avoid a "bind monoculture". What are the concerns with that?
354 2020-10-22T19:20:08  <emzy> I could also request every minute or so. But every time it needs to be signed. So it can't be every request different.
355 2020-10-22T19:20:11  <luke-jr> wumpus: 20205 is a bugfix because otherwise sqlite wallets lack a unique id which bdb has provided until now
356 2020-10-22T19:21:04  *** TallTim has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
357 2020-10-22T19:21:10  <emzy> michaelfolkson: there is still the dnsseed from bluematt
358 2020-10-22T19:21:11  <sipa> emzy: your doc has a cronjob in cron.daily
359 2020-10-22T19:21:15  <sipa> is that something else?
360 2020-10-22T19:21:19  <wumpus> luke-jr: this unique id is there to detect loading the same wallet twice?
361 2020-10-22T19:21:28  *** Talkless has quit IRC
362 2020-10-22T19:22:06  <sipa> emzy: i think bluematt's dnsseed also uses bind
363 2020-10-22T19:22:08  <emzy> sipa: thats wrong. I will fix that.
364 2020-10-22T19:22:24  <luke-jr> wumpus: to identify the same wallet even if renamed/moved/backedup/etc
365 2020-10-22T19:22:33  <sipa> emzy: if you'd load say 100 IP addresses in the zone file instead, would everyone get those 100 IPs on every request?
366 2020-10-22T19:22:40  <emzy> sipa: wrong in my documentation. My seed has it in crom.hourly
367 2020-10-22T19:22:49  <emzy> sipa: yes
368 2020-10-22T19:22:50  <wumpus> luke-jr: right
369 2020-10-22T19:22:51  <luke-jr> wumpus: we *can* use it for a warning of loading it twice, but thats only one use case
370 2020-10-22T19:23:12  *** theStack has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
371 2020-10-22T19:23:13  <sipa> also 20025 doesn't actually prevent loading twice; it just adds an ID (iirc)
372 2020-10-22T19:23:35  <wumpus> luke-jr: but I thought that was the one that was critical
373 2020-10-22T19:23:46  <luke-jr> wumpus: my prune locks pr is an example of another use case
374 2020-10-22T19:23:57  <sipa> wumpus: it was for BDB, due to environments being unable to load same db twice
375 2020-10-22T19:24:04  <achow101> wumpus: loading duplicate sqlite wallets is not a problem. it's only an issue with bdb due to environment caching stuff
376 2020-10-22T19:24:15  <wumpus> oh
377 2020-10-22T19:24:21  <sipa> wumpus: in sqlite wallets there is no such constraint, but it may be useful at an application level
378 2020-10-22T19:24:36  <michaelfolkson> Ah there have been past vulnerabilities in BIND
379 2020-10-22T19:24:44  <sipa> there is also no use for that currently in the codebase, but adding one is harder if old wallets don't have unique ids
380 2020-10-22T19:24:56  <sipa> i'm not convinced it's very urgent, but it does seem harmless to add one
381 2020-10-22T19:25:07  <luke-jr> achow101: it can still be a problem due tio metadata divergence
382 2020-10-22T19:25:10  <sipa> (correct me if i'm wrong on any of this)
383 2020-10-22T19:25:26  *** shesek has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
384 2020-10-22T19:25:26  *** shesek has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
385 2020-10-22T19:26:10  <sipa> luke-jr: it may be undesirable at an application level (though ryanofsky seems to disagree with that), but that's different from BDB which has an actual problem with it
386 2020-10-22T19:26:26  <wumpus> I think adding it cannot hurt in any case and it might come in useful
387 2020-10-22T19:26:32  <sipa> yeah
388 2020-10-22T19:27:37  <luke-jr> sipa: yes imo we should at least warn but thats another pr
389 2020-10-22T19:28:09  <sipa> luke-jr: seems reasonable to me
390 2020-10-22T19:28:26  <luke-jr> going from error to silently fine is not very good ux imo
391 2020-10-22T19:28:36  *** davterra has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
392 2020-10-22T19:29:07  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
393 2020-10-22T19:29:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sushant-varanasi opened pull request #20224: doc: CI system link added, clarity increased (squashed into a single commit) (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20224
394 2020-10-22T19:29:08  *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
395 2020-10-22T19:29:10  <sipa> well, sqlite wallets are new; anything supported for them is whatever we declare is supported
396 2020-10-22T19:29:31  <luke-jr> well "silently fine *except* you may end up with divergent metadatat" :p
397 2020-10-22T19:29:33  <sipa> release notes can state in which ways they are different from bdb wallets, which may include support for loading multiple copies
398 2020-10-22T19:29:40  <sipa> right
399 2020-10-22T19:29:46  <sipa> i agree with at least warning
400 2020-10-22T19:30:23  <luke-jr> sipa: ideally users dont care about underlying db
401 2020-10-22T19:31:00  <luke-jr> (sorry laggy irc today)
402 2020-10-22T19:31:42  <wumpus> any other topics?
403 2020-10-22T19:31:59  <achow101> changing the version number scheme?
404 2020-10-22T19:32:25  <wumpus> #topic Change version number scheme (achow101)
405 2020-10-22T19:32:44  <achow101> it's about that time of year again to have users complain about our version numbers
406 2020-10-22T19:32:48  <wumpus> I don't really feel strongly about it either way but a ok with it
407 2020-10-22T19:32:51  <michaelfolkson> Good blog post from achow101 on moving to sqlite https://achow101.com/2020/10/0.21-wallets
408 2020-10-22T19:33:01  <achow101> so #20223 drops the leading 0.
409 2020-10-22T19:33:01  <luke-jr> lets keep semver at least…
410 2020-10-22T19:33:02  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20223 | Drop the leading 0 from the version number by achow101 · Pull Request #20223 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
411 2020-10-22T19:33:18  <achow101> and makes our major version number actually the major version
412 2020-10-22T19:33:29  <sipa> concept ack
413 2020-10-22T19:33:47  <sipa> nobody really treats our 0 as a major version
414 2020-10-22T19:33:48  <achow101> and maybe people will stop asking for 1.0
415 2020-10-22T19:34:09  <luke-jr> I'd rather just bump 0 to 1
416 2020-10-22T19:34:31  <achow101> this should also be a purely cosmetic change since CLIENT_VERSION doesn't change
417 2020-10-22T19:34:57  <luke-jr> why not?
418 2020-10-22T19:35:09  <achow101> 1000000 * 0 is still 0
419 2020-10-22T19:35:10  <sipa> luke-jr: i'm afraid that'd be misinterpreted as an actual major step in development
420 2020-10-22T19:35:23  <wumpus> it also wouldn't solve anything
421 2020-10-22T19:35:29  <wumpus> besides 'there is a zero at the beginning'
422 2020-10-22T19:35:45  <sipa> which i don't think this is; it's correcting for the fact that in practice our minor version number has turned into a conceptual major version
423 2020-10-22T19:35:57  <luke-jr> sipa: 1.21?
424 2020-10-22T19:36:08  <wumpus> yes, that is the issue
425 2020-10-22T19:36:15  <sipa> luke-jr: and what would be next one be? 2.0 or 1.22?
426 2020-10-22T19:36:21  <achow101> luke-jr: but that 1 is meaningless like 0 is now
427 2020-10-22T19:36:30  <sipa> (the "next" one as in what would otherwise become 0.22)
428 2020-10-22T19:36:30  <wumpus> having a static 1 at the beginning would be the same as a 0
429 2020-10-22T19:36:33  <wumpus> right
430 2020-10-22T19:36:35  <sipa> wumpus: indeed
431 2020-10-22T19:37:08  <luke-jr> sipa: I don't agree… major versions rarely reach 20+…
432 2020-10-22T19:37:36  <luke-jr> sipa: next could be 1.22 or 2.0 depending non what we think its significance is
433 2020-10-22T19:37:44  <luke-jr> on*
434 2020-10-22T19:37:45  <michaelfolkson> Could cause some limited confusion with references to previous 0. versions
435 2020-10-22T19:37:50  <jonatack> I found the versioning mildly unusual at first, nevertheless am unsure it's worth fixing at this point
436 2020-10-22T19:37:50  <wumpus> that's not how it works with our project
437 2020-10-22T19:37:52  <achow101> luke-jr: and yet here we are with a version number that's ostensibly major at 21
438 2020-10-22T19:38:03  <wumpus> we don't judge significance of versions and have a fixed release schedule
439 2020-10-22T19:38:20  <luke-jr> achow101: but it really isnt
440 2020-10-22T19:38:21  <emzy> I feel having a high number in front of the dot is more marketing related.
441 2020-10-22T19:38:29  <wumpus> if we change the version scheme it should be to better reflect what we're actually doing
442 2020-10-22T19:38:30  <michaelfolkson> Replace questions on when 1.0 with questions on what happened from 0.21 to 22.0
443 2020-10-22T19:38:56  <achow101> luke-jr: we call it a major release..
444 2020-10-22T19:38:56  <wumpus> not what other projects are doing
445 2020-10-22T19:39:07  <luke-jr> bugfixes increment the 3rd int
446 2020-10-22T19:39:18  <achow101> michaelfolkson: but that's way easier to explain
447 2020-10-22T19:39:31  <sipa> luke-jr: if we'd actually also switch to releases that are based on magnitude of changes, but i don't think that's what we're doing
448 2020-10-22T19:39:42  <sipa> our numbers are already just an indication of time
449 2020-10-22T19:39:58  <luke-jr> magnitude would only determine 2.0 vs 1.22
450 2020-10-22T19:40:33  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
451 2020-10-22T19:40:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/88271184e822...9453fbf5a022
452 2020-10-22T19:40:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6ed4bca Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Wrap tooltips in the intro window
453 2020-10-22T19:40:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9453fbf Jonas Schnelli: Merge #20: Wrap tooltips in the intro window
454 2020-10-22T19:40:42  <luke-jr> it's not like versions are the release schedule
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457 2020-10-22T19:41:20  <wumpus> we do not classify versions by magnitude, the whole reason for proposing to remove the 0. would be to get rid of that illusion (for some people) once and for all
458 2020-10-22T19:41:21  <achow101> luke-jr: there are software with high major versions. e.g. pip
459 2020-10-22T19:41:48  <wumpus> firefo
460 2020-10-22T19:41:50  <sipa> https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/
461 2020-10-22T19:41:54  <achow101> chrome
462 2020-10-22T19:41:54  <sipa> Bitcoin Core releases are versioned as follows: 0.MAJOR.MINOR, and release candidates are suffixed with rc1, rc2 etc.
463 2020-10-22T19:41:58  <sipa> We aim to make a major release every 6-7 months.
464 2020-10-22T19:42:02  <luke-jr> wumpus: well thats what versions are for
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466 2020-10-22T19:42:32  <wumpus> luke-jr: not in this project
467 2020-10-22T19:42:53  <luke-jr> sigh
468 2020-10-22T19:43:36  <luke-jr> then everything should be 1.x forever
469 2020-10-22T19:43:47  <achow101> then that's just as meaningless
470 2020-10-22T19:43:49  <sipa> that's no better than 0.x forever
471 2020-10-22T19:44:08  <achow101> and then we'll get questions about for when 2.0
472 2020-10-22T19:44:12  <wumpus> going in circles now
473 2020-10-22T19:44:22  <luke-jr> either we should classify or not… -.-
474 2020-10-22T19:44:55  <wumpus> we don't and we won't, the only proposal is to remove a useless 0. that pretty much everyone already leaves out anyway
475 2020-10-22T19:45:36  <achow101> do we want it for this release or the next?
476 2020-10-22T19:45:42  <luke-jr> it's not useless and people leaving it off should stop so long as it's  there
477 2020-10-22T19:45:45  <wumpus> this is too late for 0.21 imo
478 2020-10-22T19:45:58  <wumpus> I don't see any reason to push this last minute
479 2020-10-22T19:46:04  <achow101> sure
480 2020-10-22T19:46:06  <sipa> luke-jr: they won't stop given that it's meaningless
481 2020-10-22T19:46:32  <sipa> our versioning scheme is literally 0.MAJOR.MINOR; the 0. serves no function
482 2020-10-22T19:46:32  <fjahr> Major versions means breaking API changes. If we say breaking API changes are breaking consensus changes in Bitcoin wouldn't it make sense to keep 0.x until we have to do a hardfork? I know that's not how people think of the versioning but I think that would make sense.
483 2020-10-22T19:47:27  <luke-jr> fjahr: Core and Bitcoin are different things
484 2020-10-22T19:47:35  <wumpus> no, the versioning ahs nothing to do with forks and hardforks
485 2020-10-22T19:47:44  <wumpus> luke-jr: exactly
486 2020-10-22T19:47:45  <sipa> firefox's versioning scheme is not based on which HTML version they support
487 2020-10-22T19:47:47  <fjahr> ok
488 2020-10-22T19:48:05  <michaelfolkson> I thought it was an interesting idea fjahr
489 2020-10-22T19:48:09  <achow101> fjahr: then we'd be on version 5 or something like that with the changes satoshi made early on
490 2020-10-22T19:48:19  <luke-jr> sipa: its really 0.minor.bugfixi
491 2020-10-22T19:48:26  <sipa> luke-jr: it's on our site
492 2020-10-22T19:48:40  <luke-jr> then the site is wrong
493 2020-10-22T19:48:58  <achow101> luke-jr: we refer to every 0.x release as a major release
494 2020-10-22T19:49:27  <luke-jr> so 21.0.bugfix,l 22.0.bugfix?
495 2020-10-22T19:49:59  <luke-jr> looks silly imo but at least it can make some sense2…
496 2020-10-22T19:50:08  <michaelfolkson> Ditching the zero assumes we will *never* have a use for it. Any reason for redundancy here however fanciful?
497 2020-10-22T19:50:23  <emzy> luke-jr: there was a
498 2020-10-22T19:50:35  <luke-jr> emzy: I'm aware
499 2020-10-22T19:50:43  <sipa> michaelfolkson: that's exactly the problem
500 2020-10-22T19:50:58  <sipa> michaelfolkson: nobody has an answer to the question "what would constitute something worthy of a 1.x release"
501 2020-10-22T19:51:01  <luke-jr> ?
502 2020-10-22T19:51:23  <luke-jr> we should really be past 1.0
503 2020-10-22T19:51:59  <sipa> yes, we do a major release every 6-7 months!
504 2020-10-22T19:52:45  <michaelfolkson> If the redundancy is entirely unnecessary for all possible future scenarios I think get rid of it. Just so this discussion doesn't keep coming up (assuming there are no downsides other than a little user confusion)
505 2020-10-22T19:52:52  <luke-jr> if its not major enough to get 1.0, it's not major ;)
506 2020-10-22T19:53:06  <sipa> luke-jr: circular reasoning gets us nowhere
507 2020-10-22T19:53:16  <wumpus> michaelfolkson: I agree
508 2020-10-22T19:53:26  <luke-jr> sipa: circular?
509 2020-10-22T19:53:46  <luke-jr> 1.0 is no more importwant that 22.0
510 2020-10-22T19:53:53  <wumpus> michaelfolkson: that would be the only reason to do it, really, in the end it's just a number and doesn't matter that much, there's no strong reason to change anything
511 2020-10-22T19:54:10  <achow101> luke-jr: 1.0 has a meaning to dumb humans
512 2020-10-22T19:54:16  <luke-jr> if we can't do 1.0 because its not important enough, it shoouldnt be 22.0 either
513 2020-10-22T19:54:37  <achow101> 1.0 is a magic number even if it shouldn't be
514 2020-10-22T19:54:49  <sipa> i think none of this matters
515 2020-10-22T19:54:59  <luke-jr> it won't be 2 years later
516 2020-10-22T19:55:11  <sipa> our release process is around time-based releases, and our version numbers _are_ time-based too
517 2020-10-22T19:56:15  <sipa> however much you'd like that to be different, the number X in 0.X.Y doesn't mean anything else but "the series of stable releases forked off at a point in time depending on X"
518 2020-10-22T19:56:16  <luke-jr> then do a calendar version like Ubuntu? :/
519 2020-10-22T19:56:32  <luke-jr> I prefer semver, but at least we should use some stabdard…
520 2020-10-22T19:56:53  <wumpus> 5 minutes to go
521 2020-10-22T19:56:56  <sipa> it doesn't convey magnitude of changes, and without substantial changes to our release process, they won't be
522 2020-10-22T19:56:58  <achow101> luke-jr: i'd honestly prefer a calendar version, but dropping 0 is the simplest and least confusing change to make
523 2020-10-22T19:57:03  <sipa> luke-jr: firefox? chrome?
524 2020-10-22T19:57:27  <emzy> achow101: +1
525 2020-10-22T19:57:39  <luke-jr> actually this is our one chance to switch to calendar cleanly
526 2020-10-22T19:57:53  <achow101> luke-jr: ikr. I proposed that for 0.20
527 2020-10-22T19:58:15  <luke-jr> sipa: nt for bugfixes
528 2020-10-22T20:01:06  <wumpus> #endmeeting
529 2020-10-22T20:01:06  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Oct 22 20:01:06 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
530 2020-10-22T20:01:06  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-22-18.59.html
531 2020-10-22T20:01:06  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-22-18.59.txt
532 2020-10-22T20:01:06  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-22-18.59.log.html
533 2020-10-22T20:01:17  <jonatack> Wallet meeting tomorrow?
534 2020-10-22T20:01:27  <jonasschnelli> Oh no. I think I messed up my first GUI repository merge. Made it the "wrong way" (so messed up bitcoin/bitcoin).
535 2020-10-22T20:01:46  <jonatack> #walletmeetingtopic standardize feerate unit on sat/vB (or sat/kvB... or sat/sipa...)
536 2020-10-22T20:01:46  <jonasschnelli> Unsure how to proceed now...
537 2020-10-22T20:02:08  <jonasschnelli> I probably messed up the SHA512 tree.
538 2020-10-22T20:02:50  <achow101> jonatack: yes
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540 2020-10-22T20:04:40  <michaelfolkson> Where can you see the topics for these meetings?
541 2020-10-22T20:05:00  <jonatack> achow101: 👌 c u there
542 2020-10-22T20:05:12  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: do you have an idea how to correct my latest merge: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master?
543 2020-10-22T20:05:36  <jonasschnelli> I guess a force push is a no go ... :|
544 2020-10-22T20:05:39  <achow101> michaelfolkson: http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt and http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
545 2020-10-22T20:05:55  <michaelfolkson> Thanks achow101
546 2020-10-22T20:06:25  <achow101> jonasschnelli: it doesn't seem that messed up except the commit message is wrong
547 2020-10-22T20:06:40  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: let me see
548 2020-10-22T20:06:54  <jonasschnelli> achow101: Yes. It's just the commit message
549 2020-10-22T20:07:47  <jonasschnelli> (which includes the Tree-SHA512)
550 2020-10-22T20:09:19  <wumpus> so the only thing wrong is the PR # in the commit message?
551 2020-10-22T20:09:44  <wumpus> the Tree-SHA256, signature looks to be ok
552 2020-10-22T20:10:02  <wumpus> and you did intend to merge this?
553 2020-10-22T20:10:18  <wumpus> if so, I don't think this warrants a force push no
554 2020-10-22T20:10:45  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: yes. It was an intentional merge. I just used the github-merge tool the wrong way
555 2020-10-22T20:11:13  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Oh. Right. The SHA512 should be right as it is the same in the GUI repository
556 2020-10-22T20:11:36  <jonasschnelli> It is then just the title... which I think is bad but probably not worth a force push
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558 2020-10-22T20:13:52  <luke-jr> sipa: Chromium's version is 4 ints, with bugfixes apparently the 4th; Firefox's are 3 ints, with bugfixes apparently the 3rd; both with marketting-specific inflated major versions
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562 2020-10-22T20:15:36  <yanmaani> Does the Bitcoin Core RPC use HTTP 2.0? Is there any way to query it asynchronously?
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564 2020-10-22T20:15:55  <yanmaani> (other than making a new thread for each connection or using a thread pool)
565 2020-10-22T20:15:56  <luke-jr> if we're going to switch to calendar, we should just rename 0.21 to 20.11 for a clean continuity
566 2020-10-22T20:16:10  <luke-jr> yanmaani: that is entirely up to your RPC interface..
567 2020-10-22T20:22:53  <achow101> luke-jr: I think our versioning pretty closely resembles firefox's actually
568 2020-10-22T20:23:00  <achow101> I also don't understand chrome's
569 2020-10-22T20:24:19  <achow101> the inflated versioning is only because they make releases every 2 months
570 2020-10-22T20:25:45  <luke-jr> achow101: IIRC they did a huge skip a few years ago
571 2020-10-22T20:26:56  <luke-jr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_version_history suggests I'm wrong
572 2020-10-22T20:27:25  <achow101> luke-jr: all I remember is that firefox just wasn't relevant for a while
573 2020-10-22T20:27:56  <luke-jr> they had a 33.1, but otherwise it looks like almost all their minor versions are 0
574 2020-10-22T20:28:16  <achow101> 68 has a bunch of minor releases
575 2020-10-22T20:28:45  <achow101> seems like they primarily use minor versions for the esr releases
576 2020-10-22T20:32:50  <luke-jr> I guess that makes sense
577 2020-10-22T20:33:00  <luke-jr> I assume not for just fixes
578 2020-10-22T20:33:38  <luke-jr> major.0.bugfix leaves the door open if anyone wants to do some kind of backports-only interim releases
579 2020-10-22T20:34:24  <achow101> .. all of our minor releases are backports only
580 2020-10-22T20:34:41  <luke-jr> bugfixes only
581 2020-10-22T20:34:45  <luke-jr> which is the 3rd int
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583 2020-10-22T20:35:12  <achow101> firefox esr releases are only bug and security fixes only
584 2020-10-22T20:38:25  <luke-jr> well, that's not a standard use for int 2
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595 2020-10-22T21:10:01  <yanmaani> luke-jr: You could release 0.21 now, keep it through 2021, and then have 0.22 be the 2022 release as well. You don't have to do it retroactively
596 2020-10-22T21:10:25  <yanmaani> Wht do you mean 'my RPC interface'? Caller is whatever, but does the server support HTTP 2.0?
597 2020-10-22T21:11:17  <meshcollider> yanmaani: we release ~twice per year not just once
598 2020-10-22T21:12:22  <yanmaani> meshcollider: well just stop doing that then :)
599 2020-10-22T21:12:37  <yanmaani> have minor versions be 'month of release' after say June 2021
600 2020-10-22T21:14:44  <luke-jr> yanmaani: HTTP 1.0 can be done async just fine
601 2020-10-22T21:14:58  <luke-jr> sync vs async is entirely your JSON-RPC interface/library
602 2020-10-22T21:15:09  <yanmaani> luke-jr: Yes but I'll have to start more connections
603 2020-10-22T21:15:37  <luke-jr> so?
604 2020-10-22T21:15:39  <yanmaani> If I want to make 10 requests that take 100ms of wall-clock time each, then I'll need to open 1 connection with HTTP 2.0 and 10 with HTTP 1.0
605 2020-10-22T21:15:51  <yanmaani> It's more implementation work, and probably slightly more resource intensive
606 2020-10-22T21:17:00  <luke-jr> it's less because you don't need the logic to determine when you need more connections :P
607 2020-10-22T21:17:09  <luke-jr> less impl work*
608 2020-10-22T21:17:28  <yanmaani> And because I need to keep the state of which sockets are blocked.
609 2020-10-22T21:17:41  <luke-jr> or just open a connection per request *shrug*
610 2020-10-22T21:18:13  <yanmaani> yep. How much resources does it take to open say 100 threads?
611 2020-10-22T21:18:24  <luke-jr> well, you can always do it async ;)
612 2020-10-22T21:18:24  <yanmaani> send to threads[rand() % 100], hope for the best
613 2020-10-22T21:18:53  <yanmaani> gotta keep them open too
614 2020-10-22T21:19:01  <yanmaani> like does it just need a few MB of RAM, or something more?
615 2020-10-22T21:19:16  <luke-jr> anyway, Core uses libevent for the HTTP server
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617 2020-10-22T21:19:54  <luke-jr> yanmaani: there is nothing to stop a single thread from managing many connections each with one request
618 2020-10-22T21:19:59  <yanmaani> with evhttp?
619 2020-10-22T21:20:08  <luke-jr> yes
620 2020-10-22T21:20:10  <yanmaani> I mean thread in bitcoind
621 2020-10-22T21:20:15  <luke-jr> ah
622 2020-10-22T21:20:18  <yanmaani> there's a setting "RPC threads", default was 4 on my machine
623 2020-10-22T21:21:03  <luke-jr> well, if you have N requests you want to run simultaneously, you're going to have N threads Core side to do it
624 2020-10-22T21:21:35  <yanmaani> Does it gain you anything to have >N connections then?
625 2020-10-22T21:21:54  <luke-jr> probably not, just a matter of what's easier for you to do
626 2020-10-22T21:22:04  <yanmaani> and what's the performance cost in spinning up a gazillion threads?
627 2020-10-22T21:22:10  <luke-jr> if you don't mind  them running in sequence, you might consider batching
628 2020-10-22T21:22:49  <yanmaani> yeah, I might just do that, have a separate piece of code exposing an async API and then just have a queue + thread pool monstrosity hidden behind there
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652 2020-10-22T23:08:47  <yanmaani> Would a PR to add an option to make Bitcoin Core crash/quit if an incorrect RPC password attempt is made be welcomed?
653 2020-10-22T23:15:18  <luke-jr> yanmaani: I think I would ACK it as an option
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656 2020-10-22T23:17:09  <yanmaani> cool
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659 2020-10-22T23:32:48  <luke-jr> yanmaani: keep in mind it could become a DoS risk
660 2020-10-22T23:35:03  <yanmaani> luke-jr: That's the point, to degrade a security risk to a DoS risk
661 2020-10-22T23:35:33  <yanmaani> "oops I exposed my RPC port, my money is gone" -> "oops I exposed my RPC port, I'll have to restart my node"
662 2020-10-22T23:36:20  <luke-jr> right
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664 2020-10-22T23:48:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #20215: doc: CI system link added, clarity increased (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20215
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