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 13 2020-10-23T02:11:57  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9453fbf5a022...9af7c1993b35
 14 2020-10-23T02:11:57  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 56a461f Sebastian Falbesoner: wallet: fix buffer over-read in SQLite file magic check
 15 2020-10-23T02:11:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9af7c19 fanquake: Merge #20216: wallet: fix buffer over-read in SQLite file magic check
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 18 2020-10-23T02:12:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20216: wallet: fix buffer over-read in SQLite file magic check (master...20201022-wallet-fix-sqlite-magic-buffer-overread) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20216
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 38 2020-10-23T04:32:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] S3RK opened pull request #20226: wallet, rpc: add listdescriptors command (master...listdescriptors) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20226
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 48 2020-10-23T07:06:08  <fanquake> Have queried GitHub in regards to CODEOWNERS and it's write permissions requirement. re #20200. https://0bin.net/paste/ZYpiRX9U#s67wu+CndcC5mYMooLlnvzqN5SrKW8119sQOKLa+Ju3
 49 2020-10-23T07:06:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20200 | doc: revert #18949 since CODEOWNERS require write permission by adamjonas · Pull Request #20200 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 77 2020-10-23T09:26:04  <jonasschnelli> achow101: I guess your answer for https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/43 would be welcome.
 78 2020-10-23T09:26:09  <jonasschnelli> (trying to close that PR)
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 81 2020-10-23T09:43:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #20228: [addrman] Make addrman a top-level component (master...2020-10-addrman) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20228
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 85 2020-10-23T09:55:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9af7c1993b35...49984b44cfcd
 86 2020-10-23T09:55:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8071c75 Hennadii Stepanov: qt, refactor: Limit scope of QPainter object
 87 2020-10-23T09:55:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6954156 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Fix visual quality of text in QR image
 88 2020-10-23T09:55:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 49984b4 Jonas Schnelli: Merge bitcoin-core/gui#71: Fix visual quality of text in QR image
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106 2020-10-23T10:37:27  <jonasschnelli> I'm again banned in #bitcoin-dev and #bitcoin and #bitcoin-wizards ... if anyone know how to unban: thanks.
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135 2020-10-23T12:03:22  <jtimon> is activation being discussed somewhere else beyond the thread "Modern Soft Fork Activation"  ?
136 2020-10-23T12:03:35  <jtimon> or is the discussion stuck? I'll re-read, but I remember feeling like my points weren't being addressed
137 2020-10-23T12:04:01  <fanquake> There is ##taproot-activation if you aren't in there already
138 2020-10-23T12:04:20  <jtimon> I asked questions that I'm pretty sure were ignored
139 2020-10-23T12:04:28  <jtimon> fanquake: awesome, thanks
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151 2020-10-23T12:47:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] bitcoin-foundation-admin opened pull request #20229: Adding a new Bitcoin logo, and release it under the public domain license. (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20229
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155 2020-10-23T12:54:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #20229: Adding a new Bitcoin logo, and release it under the public domain license. (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20229
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157 2020-10-23T12:54:42  <jonasschnelli> Lol #20229
158 2020-10-23T12:54:43  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20229 | Adding a new Bitcoin logo, and release it under the public domain license. by bitcoin-foundation-admin · Pull Request #20229 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
159 2020-10-23T12:55:16  <jonasschnelli> On the other hand... they are right about the metadata in my original SVG
160 2020-10-23T12:56:18  <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: not sure if removing the description text helps much... now they certainly claim censorship
161 2020-10-23T12:57:02  <queip> that's the joke there? png version looks normal
162 2020-10-23T12:57:45  <queip> btw lol  at what ever SVG editor: rgb(96.862745%, that's really precise RGB :o
163 2020-10-23T12:58:31  <jonasschnelli> I guess my SVG is bad because I think I used Adobe Illustrator to create it and haven't cleand it.
164 2020-10-23T12:59:21  <jonasschnelli> MarcoFalke: good point about the website... probably good you have removed that text
165 2020-10-23T12:59:53  <jonasschnelli> The SV people recently started foundation activity in Switzerland.... I think its them. The webpage also links to bitcoin.com.
166 2020-10-23T13:01:09  <MarcoFalke> The website asks for donations. Obviously don't send anything to their address
167 2020-10-23T13:01:31  <MarcoFalke> I thought we blocked them already last time they spammed
168 2020-10-23T13:01:38  <MarcoFalke> Maybe it's a new account
169 2020-10-23T13:01:49  <fanquake> there's always a new account
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185 2020-10-23T13:38:36  <queip> MarcoFalke: probably that troll, now asks in #bitcoin with some fake DMCA I  guess
186 2020-10-23T13:40:08  <MarcoFalke> What a time sink. Best to ignore
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188 2020-10-23T13:42:40  * queip thumbsup. recently some fake-DMCA abusers got counter sued and lost money, just to keep in mind
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190 2020-10-23T13:50:49  <kinlo> heh, it has been quite a while since I had someone using all the insults he can think of in my private windows :)
191 2020-10-23T13:52:16  <queip> I am curious now, they commited some bitcoin.svg just to change git glame to them or something, got rejected, and now are DMCA-mad that their pressious bitcoin.svg sits there in PR? or smth? (besides that svg file is 404 anyway already)
192 2020-10-23T13:52:17  <kinlo> do they really open dmca takedowns @ github?
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195 2020-10-23T13:53:40  <queip> kinlo: if yes then great opportunity to ditch github. Or at least prepare to do so in future. if we distribute PRs, Issues, and maybe searching all servers for git remote modules, then we can ignore any such problems. anyway if bitcoin GH is officially mirrored to other gits, wouldn't hurt to promote that knowledge in places
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197 2020-10-23T13:54:56  <kinlo> queip: surely github has experience with children trying to annoy their dmca department
198 2020-10-23T13:55:11  <kinlo> given the talk he gave me in private, I don't think he's very mature
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204 2020-10-23T14:39:33  <jonasschnelli> For the one not following the GUI repository: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/108 (interactive mempool statistics). Ideas, reviews and testing welcome
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216 2020-10-23T15:01:33  <jonasschnelli> ##bitcoin-core-gui
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236 2020-10-23T16:28:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #20230: wallet: Fix bug when just created encrypted wallet cannot get address (master...201023-signal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20230
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314 2020-10-23T18:45:26  <dongcarl> What's the reason that enabling fuzz disables all other targets
315 2020-10-23T18:46:46  <sipa> what else would it do?
316 2020-10-23T18:49:41  <dongcarl> I feel like I'm missing something cuz I expect it to just add targets instead of affecting other targets?
317 2020-10-23T18:52:10  <sipa> dongcarl: ah, it needs a special compile flag (-fsanitize=fuz), which is incompatible with having a main function
318 2020-10-23T18:52:20  *** user___ has left #bitcoin-core-dev
319 2020-10-23T18:52:58  <sipa> it's not --enable-fuzz itself that's incomaptible with it (that's just switching the targets), but because it needs a compiler flag that's mutually exclusive with normal code
320 2020-10-23T18:52:59  <dongcarl> Haha I see!
321 2020-10-23T18:53:32  <sipa> dongcarl: there is an issue somewhere to instead enable building the fuzz test *code* (but without fuzzing) even in normal build mode
322 2020-10-23T18:54:04  <sipa> which would greatly improve my grievances about it, that it's so easy to break compilation of the fuzz tests when you're changing other code, and won't notice because it needs a special build
323 2020-10-23T18:54:37  <sipa> however the fuzz tests started using C++17 a while ago, so we need to wait until the main code is built with that too
324 2020-10-23T18:54:43  <dongcarl> sipa: Totally agree... That's exactly what happened to me...
325 2020-10-23T18:54:46  *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
326 2020-10-23T18:54:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #20231: wallet, rpc: universal feerate (sat/vB) param/option (master...universal-feerate) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20231
327 2020-10-23T18:54:47  *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
328 2020-10-23T18:56:09  <sipa> dongcarl: i have a worktree set up for fuzz builds to test things in
329 2020-10-23T18:56:21  <sipa> so i don't need to re-./configure and find the right flags every time
330 2020-10-23T18:56:45  <dongcarl> Ah right, that's a good workaround for now
331 2020-10-23T19:00:33  <achow101> wallet meeting?
332 2020-10-23T19:00:55  <jonatack> yup
333 2020-10-23T19:01:26  <achow101> #startmeeting
334 2020-10-23T19:01:26  <lightningbot> Meeting started Fri Oct 23 19:01:26 2020 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
335 2020-10-23T19:01:26  <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
336 2020-10-23T19:01:35  <jonatack> hi
337 2020-10-23T19:01:37  <hebasto> hi
338 2020-10-23T19:01:41  <michaelfolkson> hi
339 2020-10-23T19:02:09  <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball ariard digi_james amiti fjahr jeremyrubin emilengler jonatack hebasto
340 2020-10-23T19:02:10  <achow101>  jb55 kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2
341 2020-10-23T19:02:18  <achow101> topics?
342 2020-10-23T19:02:24  <meshcollider> Hi
343 2020-10-23T19:02:33  <achow101> oh you're awake
344 2020-10-23T19:02:52  <jonatack> hey meshcollider
345 2020-10-23T19:02:53  <meshcollider> One topic proposal standardize feerate unit on sat/vB (or sat/kvB... or sat/sipa...) (jonatack)
346 2020-10-23T19:03:02  <sipa> you were trying to cross the border
347 2020-10-23T19:03:12  <meshcollider> Yes :) but glad you're hosting because my internet may be intermittent
348 2020-10-23T19:04:11  <achow101> #topic standardize feerate unit on sat/vB (or sat/kvB... or sat/sipa...) (jonatack)
349 2020-10-23T19:04:32  <jonatack> #11413 was merged in June
350 2020-10-23T19:04:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/11413 | [wallet] [rpc] sendtoaddress/sendmany: Add explicit feerate option by kallewoof · Pull Request #11413 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
351 2020-10-23T19:05:09  <jonatack> and introduced an explicit feerate option, that overloads conf_target and estimate_mode
352 2020-10-23T19:05:20  <jonasschnelli> would this break the RPC API... I mean would we change existing RPC parameters?
353 2020-10-23T19:05:43  <jonatack> which has the disadnvantage of being unsafe and confusing to use
354 2020-10-23T19:05:57  <sipa> jonatack: it uses a different unit than other feerate RPC arguments?
355 2020-10-23T19:06:23  <jonatack> 11413 allows a choice between 2 units:
356 2020-10-23T19:06:31  <jonatack> BTC/kB and sat/B
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358 2020-10-23T19:07:09  <jonatack> I've been using this IRL regularly... apart from bumpfee where it is not working (fix in #20220)
359 2020-10-23T19:07:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20220 | wallet, rpc: explicit feerate follow-ups by jonatack · Pull Request #20220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
360 2020-10-23T19:07:15  <jonatack> but it's scary
361 2020-10-23T19:07:32  <sipa> how do you choose between them?
362 2020-10-23T19:07:34  <jonatack> MarcoFalke created an issue at #19453
363 2020-10-23T19:07:36  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19453 | refactor: reduce DefaultRequestHandler memory allocations by jonatack · Pull Request #19453 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
364 2020-10-23T19:07:42  <jonatack> ugh
365 2020-10-23T19:07:49  <luke-jr> sipa: the unit is specified s a string
366 2020-10-23T19:08:04  <jonatack> #19543
367 2020-10-23T19:08:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19543 | Normalize fee units for RPC ("BTC/kB" and "sat/B) · Issue #19543 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
368 2020-10-23T19:08:15  <jonatack> discussion here ^
369 2020-10-23T19:08:24  <luke-jr> in place of the conservative/etc fee estimate mode
370 2020-10-23T19:08:38  <sipa> ok
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372 2020-10-23T19:08:44  <jonatack> the idea is to not release 0.21 with the overloaded conf_target and estimate_mode params
373 2020-10-23T19:08:59  <jonasschnelli> 20231 would change the feeRate in fundrawtransaction from BTC/kB to sat/B. Isn't that potentially dangerous?
374 2020-10-23T19:09:10  <luke-jr> jonatack: too late
375 2020-10-23T19:09:49  <sipa> we can't change the interpretation of RPC arguments of existing RPCs in released versions
376 2020-10-23T19:09:52  <jonatack> 6 RPCs are affected: sendtoaddress, sendmany, send, bumpfee, fundraw, and walletcreatefundedpsbt
377 2020-10-23T19:10:16  <sipa> not without a command-line argument to opt into other semantics, at least
378 2020-10-23T19:10:22  <jonasschnelli> I guess if we extend/add a feemode parameter in which the default is BTC/kB,.. its probably fine
379 2020-10-23T19:10:31  <jonatack> per discussion, it's better to not avoid releasing as-is and fix it
380 2020-10-23T19:10:32  <luke-jr> relevant #17356
381 2020-10-23T19:10:34  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17356 | RPC: Internal named params by luke-jr · Pull Request #17356 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
382 2020-10-23T19:10:50  <sipa> jonatack: define 'fix it', what needs fixing?
383 2020-10-23T19:10:57  <sipa> (just trying to understand the problem)
384 2020-10-23T19:11:15  <jonatack> see #20220 and #19543
385 2020-10-23T19:11:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20220 | wallet, rpc: explicit feerate follow-ups by jonatack · Pull Request #20220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
386 2020-10-23T19:11:18  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19543 | Normalize fee units for RPC ("BTC/kB" and "sat/B) · Issue #19543 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
387 2020-10-23T19:12:29  <jonatack> there seems to be agreement to have a dedicated fee_rate option that uses a fixed unit of sat/vB
388 2020-10-23T19:12:46  <jonatack> to replace overloading conf_target and estimate_mode
389 2020-10-23T19:12:56  <jonatack> and it's not too hard to do
390 2020-10-23T19:13:12  <jonatack> mostly test-writing to be sure all the plumbing is working
391 2020-10-23T19:13:35  <sipa> so what would the changes be w.r.t 0.20 ?
392 2020-10-23T19:14:09  <meshcollider> Concept ACK on fee_rate
393 2020-10-23T19:14:10  <jonatack> either as-is with 11413 merged and fixups in 20220, e.g. overloading
394 2020-10-23T19:14:27  <luke-jr> I don't understand the proposed solution
395 2020-10-23T19:14:35  <jonatack> or stop overloading them asap before release
396 2020-10-23T19:14:45  <jonatack> before we have to do a deprecation cycle
397 2020-10-23T19:14:50  <jonatack> to change them
398 2020-10-23T19:14:55  <luke-jr> overloading them isn't a problem, so long as it's properly documented?
399 2020-10-23T19:15:05  <jonatack> luke-jr: it's fraught
400 2020-10-23T19:15:06  <sipa> jonatack: sorry for all the questions, i haven't read all these issues... but i'd like to understand what the problem is and what is being changed
401 2020-10-23T19:15:07  <achow101> sipa: I don't think explicit feerate is in 0.20?
402 2020-10-23T19:15:08  <jonasschnelli> oh. Why do we overload "conf_target" with a feerate.. :/
403 2020-10-23T19:15:24  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: it's only for positional
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405 2020-10-23T19:15:32  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: with named args, they have separate names
406 2020-10-23T19:15:36  <sipa> mostly to make sure we're not doing anything that breaks compatibility
407 2020-10-23T19:15:54  <jonatack> achow101: no. it was merged late june
408 2020-10-23T19:15:59  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: for positional, it's pretty reasonable
409 2020-10-23T19:16:20  <sipa> jonatack: would the feerate argument to `settxfee` be affected?
410 2020-10-23T19:16:33  <jonatack> luke-jr: it's mixing types, and look at the fundraw and createpsbt helps...
411 2020-10-23T19:16:51  <luke-jr> jonatack: so the bug is documentation only
412 2020-10-23T19:17:00  <jonatack> sipa: so far settxfee is not changed by 11413
413 2020-10-23T19:17:18  <sipa> or existing RPCs that have feerates in their response?
414 2020-10-23T19:17:37  <jonatack> luke-jr: mixed types, overloading, missing tests, broken bumpfee
415 2020-10-23T19:18:30  <jonatack> luke-jr: i use it for positional, and it's scary. a bit more reassuring with -named
416 2020-10-23T19:18:56  <jonatack> (have used it many times, i still re-check every time)
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418 2020-10-23T19:19:28  <jonatack> sipa: so far i've looked at input params/options, not yet at output
419 2020-10-23T19:20:12  <sipa> if we're introducing a sat/vB option, wouldn't it be better to have it everywhere?
420 2020-10-23T19:20:32  <jonatack> i think so, yes. there seems to be fairly strong agreement to migrate to it.
421 2020-10-23T19:20:33  <sipa> otherwise people could be copying output from estimatesmartfee and have it be interpreted as a different unit
422 2020-10-23T19:20:51  <sipa> "migrate" ?
423 2020-10-23T19:21:01  <sipa> you can't break compatibility
424 2020-10-23T19:21:15  <jonatack> so we have to stay with BTC/kB?
425 2020-10-23T19:21:28  <luke-jr> isn't that the reason we use BTC at all in RPC?
426 2020-10-23T19:21:29  <sipa> for existing RPCs, definitely
427 2020-10-23T19:21:42  <sipa> but you could add extra output arguments, and extra input arguments
428 2020-10-23T19:21:43  <luke-jr> otherwise it'd be better to have satoshis everywhere..
429 2020-10-23T19:21:52  <sipa> feerate, feerate_satvb e.g.
430 2020-10-23T19:22:05  <luke-jr> sipa: that breaks positional
431 2020-10-23T19:22:15  <sipa> how so?
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433 2020-10-23T19:22:26  <luke-jr> sipa: positional doesn't have an arg name
434 2020-10-23T19:22:41  <sipa> it'd be a completely separate argument
435 2020-10-23T19:22:59  <luke-jr> that's terribly ugly
436 2020-10-23T19:23:03  <sipa> yes
437 2020-10-23T19:23:04  <jonatack> luke-jr: so far, in the rpcs where i've added feerate, i placed it just before verbose, which isn't dangerous
438 2020-10-23T19:23:08  *** Zenton has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
439 2020-10-23T19:23:16  <jonatack> or could be after verbose as well, either way
440 2020-10-23T19:23:22  <jonatack> e.g. last
441 2020-10-23T19:23:23  <sipa> jonatack: so verbose moved?
442 2020-10-23T19:23:46  <jonatack> sipa: no, this is what i'm looking at rn
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444 2020-10-23T19:24:24  <jonatack> adding "fee_rate" or "feerate_sat_vb" to sendtoaddress/sendmany/send etc
445 2020-10-23T19:24:33  <luke-jr> btw why use vB at all, if not for API compatibility? ;)
446 2020-10-23T19:24:38  <luke-jr> maybe it should be sat/WU ;)
447 2020-10-23T19:25:06  <sipa> i think sat/vB makes sense, it's the most common unit used in practice for fees
448 2020-10-23T19:25:12  <sipa> at least as an option
449 2020-10-23T19:25:27  <sipa> but compatibility is a problem
450 2020-10-23T19:26:06  <sipa> previous times when new units in RPC was brought up (mostly in the context of using sat instead of BTC for absolute amounts), it was suggested that this'd be done through a completely new version of the RPC API
451 2020-10-23T19:26:26  <sipa> though that of course easily scope-creeps into discussions about what else to change
452 2020-10-23T19:26:37  <jonatack> luke-jr: if it was me doing it greenfield, i might use sat/kvB (and call it sat/sipa for better marketing)
453 2020-10-23T19:26:44  <jonatack> sipa: hm
454 2020-10-23T19:26:49  <sipa> goh please no
455 2020-10-23T19:26:52  <luke-jr> lol
456 2020-10-23T19:27:09  <meshcollider> ugh, rpc versioning
457 2020-10-23T19:27:32  <jonatack> for the 3 send rpcs, there is currently no feerate-like param
458 2020-10-23T19:27:52  <luke-jr> can we split this topic up into two: what is actually _broken_ right now? 2) what is a future backward compat burden?
459 2020-10-23T19:28:16  <jonatack> bumpfee, fundraw and WCFB do have them
460 2020-10-23T19:28:18  <emzy> As long as minimum fee is 1 sat/vB, this unit makes sense.
461 2020-10-23T19:28:40  <luke-jr> emzy: JSON-RPC does not treat integers as special
462 2020-10-23T19:28:52  <sipa> many client libraries do, though
463 2020-10-23T19:29:13  <sipa> but indeed, JSON only has a "number" type with no distinction between integers and floating-point
464 2020-10-23T19:29:20  <jonatack> luke-jr: minimum fixes are in #20220, except maybe additional clarity in the help about the confusing edges, which there currently are
465 2020-10-23T19:29:22  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20220 | wallet, rpc: explicit feerate follow-ups by jonatack · Pull Request #20220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
466 2020-10-23T19:30:20  <jonatack> what MarcoFalke, wumpus, Murch, kallewoof and I have been discussing is not overloading conf_target and estimate_mode before it's too late and released
467 2020-10-23T19:30:26  <luke-jr> sipa: I can't think of a sane way to prepare for broken client libs combined with sub-sat/WU fee rates :p
468 2020-10-23T19:30:44  <michaelfolkson> What is WU?
469 2020-10-23T19:30:59  <meshcollider> Weight unit
470 2020-10-23T19:31:01  <luke-jr> weight units; ie, what consensus is really using
471 2020-10-23T19:31:04  <michaelfolkson> Ah ta
472 2020-10-23T19:31:32  <jonatack> Questions:
473 2020-10-23T19:31:47  <luke-jr> jonatack: what is the difference between `int target = value.get_int();` and `const int target{value.get_int()};` that makes it so essential?
474 2020-10-23T19:32:02  <jonatack> - move forward with fix to not overload those two params?
475 2020-10-23T19:32:19  <luke-jr> I think they should be overloaded
476 2020-10-23T19:32:25  <jonatack> - call it feerate or fee_rate?
477 2020-10-23T19:32:41  <jonatack> luke-jr: it's WIP, no need to discuss style nits yet
478 2020-10-23T19:32:47  <Murch> luke-jr: Do you think floats of sat/vB would be a problem?
479 2020-10-23T19:33:04  <sipa> it is very late to still make changes to RPC arguments at this point
480 2020-10-23T19:33:10  <luke-jr> Murch: JSON-RPC doesn't have floats, everything is precise decimal
481 2020-10-23T19:33:37  <luke-jr> Murch: even if some clients might need to used floats for it, I don't see it likely to be a practical issue
482 2020-10-23T19:33:44  <luke-jr> after all, floats have plenty of precision?
483 2020-10-23T19:33:58  <Murch> So how do people input BTC/kB right now?
484 2020-10-23T19:34:03  <jonatack> ISTM it can be simpler to add a fixed-unit feerate than keep overloading, and simpler code as well
485 2020-10-23T19:34:24  <jonatack> above all, better for users
486 2020-10-23T19:34:33  <luke-jr> jonatack: ?
487 2020-10-23T19:34:56  <jonatack> and i've been dogfooding the current version quite a bit
488 2020-10-23T19:35:19  <luke-jr> callers should be able to specify fee as an estimate mode or absolute feerate.. I see no case where overloading is weird
489 2020-10-23T19:35:47  <sipa> Murch: 0.00123456 if you want 123.456 sat/vB
490 2020-10-23T19:35:54  <jonatack> Has anyone actually used it?
491 2020-10-23T19:36:16  <jonatack> The explicit feerate with the overloaded args.
492 2020-10-23T19:36:43  <Murch> sipa: Is that then not a float?
493 2020-10-23T19:36:55  <sipa> Murch: JSON doesn't have a concept of floats/integers, just "numbers"
494 2020-10-23T19:37:30  <jonatack> It's awfully odd to send txns with a feerate set with conf_target=2 and estimate_mode="sat/vb"
495 2020-10-23T19:37:44  <sipa> jonatack: but can't you use fee_rate=2 as well?
496 2020-10-23T19:37:48  <luke-jr> jonatack: 20220 is long, and starting from the top looks like a bunch of completely unnecessary changes; I'm not opposed to them, but it's not helpful to understand what is in need of fixing
497 2020-10-23T19:37:54  <Murch> I guess I'm missing the distinction, but I understand that it's not a problem to put in something with a value between 0 and 1
498 2020-10-23T19:37:56  <jonatack> the names do not correspond at all to what is being done
499 2020-10-23T19:38:19  <jonatack> luke-jr: 20220 mostly adds missing tests
500 2020-10-23T19:38:36  <sipa> Murch: read the JSON spec, it just has a number type
501 2020-10-23T19:39:00  <sipa> Murch: the problem is with client libraries, which may map the number type to floating point types, which is bad for currency reasons
502 2020-10-23T19:39:05  <luke-jr> Murch: JSON-RPC numbers are decimal strings; floats are fixed-size approximations
503 2020-10-23T19:39:27  <sipa> bitcoin core has no problem with this, it parses the decimals exactly from json, without conversion to a floating point type at any point
504 2020-10-23T19:39:46  <Murch> luke-jr: Thanks, I see.
505 2020-10-23T19:40:18  <sipa> i think it's a good idea to try to avoid numbers with a decimal in our RPC, but that's not worth breaking compatibility over
506 2020-10-23T19:40:20  <jonatack> luke-jr: with an important fix that i noted with a review comment and some help documentation fixes
507 2020-10-23T19:41:00  <jonatack> (some of the helps are currently wrong)
508 2020-10-23T19:41:10  <Murch> My alternative proposal was sat/kvB, which gives us an additional 3 decimal of precision for numbers that are safe integers
509 2020-10-23T19:41:45  <Murch> (which, though would also get parsed as floats in client libraries potentially, I guess)
510 2020-10-23T19:41:47  <emzy> Murch: thats also msat/vB
511 2020-10-23T19:41:56  <Murch> emzy: sure.
512 2020-10-23T19:42:09  <sipa> Murch: the bitcoin core RPC also lets you pass any amount as a string, in case your client library can't produce JSON numbers without going through a floating-point type
513 2020-10-23T19:42:23  <luke-jr> emzy: but msat isn't an existing unit (in Bitcoin/Core at least)
514 2020-10-23T19:42:52  <emzy> luke-jr: but Lighting uses it already.
515 2020-10-23T19:42:59  <sipa> so you can have integer sats internally in the application, and format them as "%i.%06i" % (sats // 1000000, sats % 1000000) for example (python like)
516 2020-10-23T19:43:01  <luke-jr> emzy: unfortunately :p
517 2020-10-23T19:43:57  <sipa> we'll add a command line option to rename msat/vB to sat/kvB for luke-jr
518 2020-10-23T19:44:02  <sipa> ;)
519 2020-10-23T19:45:05  <Murch> mh, my nickname is the only one with a capital letter. Are you all anti-capitalists?
520 2020-10-23T19:45:07  <emzy> I don't like the 1/k I think it is confusing
521 2020-10-23T19:45:12  <luke-jr> lol
522 2020-10-23T19:45:39  <jonatack> I'm not sure what people would like to do here. What we have now does have some issues per #19543 and other issues I found while adding tests, but happy to not work on it further if it's not needed.
523 2020-10-23T19:45:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19543 | Normalize fee units for RPC ("BTC/kB" and "sat/B) · Issue #19543 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
524 2020-10-23T19:46:01  <sipa> jonatack: i'm going to refrain from commenting further until i understand what the problem and proposed solution are
525 2020-10-23T19:47:01  <jonatack> I'm afraid people will definitely complain about the overloaded options having functions that don't have much to do with the param names.
526 2020-10-23T19:47:18  <jonatack> e.g. conf_target for the fee rate
527 2020-10-23T19:47:34  <luke-jr> jonatack: if you're using named params, you *shouldn't* be specifying it as conf_target
528 2020-10-23T19:47:39  <jonatack> and there is also a feeRate or fee_rate arg next to it in some rpcs
529 2020-10-23T19:47:58  <luke-jr> it should be the same position, but named fee_?rate
530 2020-10-23T19:48:11  <jonatack> that in addition does not work if you use estimate_mode
531 2020-10-23T19:48:42  <luke-jr> without #17356, we can't enforce the correct name is used, but that's beside the point
532 2020-10-23T19:48:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17356 | RPC: Internal named params by luke-jr · Pull Request #17356 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
533 2020-10-23T19:49:50  <Murch> presumably `conf_target` and `feerate` would be exclusive or one would supersede if both are provided (exclusive is cleaner, though)
534 2020-10-23T19:50:15  <jonatack> Ok, in issue 19543 I thought there was a pretty clear direction, but it seems not, and I suspect no one has been dogfooding the current new feature.
535 2020-10-23T19:50:19  <luke-jr> Murch: ideally, if both were provided, we'd error
536 2020-10-23T19:50:40  <luke-jr> or rather, if the wrong one were provided
537 2020-10-23T19:50:54  <luke-jr> estimate_mode (perhaps should be renamed fee_mode) specifies which one is correct
538 2020-10-23T19:51:11  <jonatack> luke-jr: we cannot rename estimate_mode
539 2020-10-23T19:51:12  <luke-jr> (and with "fee_mode" there, "fee_rate" seems obvious over "feerate")
540 2020-10-23T19:51:16  <luke-jr> jonatack: why not?
541 2020-10-23T19:51:25  <jonatack> it's used for the fee estimation since some time
542 2020-10-23T19:51:29  <luke-jr> so?
543 2020-10-23T19:51:33  <luke-jr> we support multiple names
544 2020-10-23T19:51:46  <luke-jr> deprecate the old one and keep allowing it
545 2020-10-23T19:51:55  <jonatack> This is a mess.
546 2020-10-23T19:52:24  <jonatack> I thought we had a good solution, but it seems best for me to drop it.
547 2020-10-23T19:52:36  <jonatack> I'm done.
548 2020-10-23T19:52:57  <sipa> :(
549 2020-10-23T19:53:21  <jonatack> luke-jr: I with you had chimed in on the discussion in 19543
550 2020-10-23T19:53:33  <jonatack> we seemed in agreement I thought
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552 2020-10-23T19:54:03  <jonatack> I'll get back to catching up on the reviewing.
553 2020-10-23T19:54:47  <achow101> any other topics for the last 5 minutes?
554 2020-10-23T19:55:38  <michaelfolkson> Is that an effective Approach NACK luke-jr?
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556 2020-10-23T19:56:05  <luke-jr> michaelfolkson: I don't understand his proposed approach still :/
557 2020-10-23T19:56:24  <sipa> i worry that i may have contributed to jonatack's frustration here by commenting without understanding the problem well
558 2020-10-23T19:57:35  <michaelfolkson> Ok well if you both do look over it it would be good to get a formal Approach NACK if you really don't like it.
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560 2020-10-23T19:57:55  <michaelfolkson> I haven't understood it all either
561 2020-10-23T19:58:07  <jonatack> sipa, no worries, I'm not frustrated, it's just clearly too early in that people haven't tripped on the issues yet.
562 2020-10-23T19:59:11  <jonatack> achow101: did you want to do high priority?
563 2020-10-23T19:59:12  <Murch> How come that parameters to RPC are defined separately instead of in a dictionary that applies to all uses of the same parameter?
564 2020-10-23T19:59:33  <Murch> I.e. why is something like feerate not defined once for the whole codebase?
565 2020-10-23T19:59:33  <achow101> jonatack: I think all the high priority is already listed in the milestone
566 2020-10-23T19:59:44  <jonatack> achow101: that's true
567 2020-10-23T19:59:56  <sipa> Murch: what do you mean with "defined once" ?
568 2020-10-23T20:00:04  <sipa> code for parsing it?
569 2020-10-23T20:00:27  <achow101> #endmeeting
570 2020-10-23T20:00:27  <lightningbot> Meeting ended Fri Oct 23 20:00:27 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
571 2020-10-23T20:00:27  <lightningbot> Minutes:        http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-23-19.01.html
572 2020-10-23T20:00:27  <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-23-19.01.txt
573 2020-10-23T20:00:27  <lightningbot> Log:            http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-23-19.01.log.html
574 2020-10-23T20:00:51  <Murch> like a class that provides the parameter parsing, logic, and sanitation that can be used by various rpc to
575 2020-10-23T20:01:47  <sipa> we have that for amounts (AmountFromValue), and historically, feerates were always just amounts (per k(v)B)
576 2020-10-23T20:02:27  <michaelfolkson> I have a question for achow101 if he's sticking around. You said in your blog post it will be possible to migrate legacy wallets to descriptor wallets. How does the descriptor wallet obtain the descriptor from the legacy wallet?
577 2020-10-23T20:02:34  <sipa> jonatack: i think it'd be useful if you added a summary of the actual RPC changes in 20220 ?
578 2020-10-23T20:02:39  <sipa> s/?//
579 2020-10-23T20:02:48  <jtimon> sipa: is there not a CFeeRate class anymore?
580 2020-10-23T20:03:06  <sipa> there is, but it doesn't RPC argument parsing
581 2020-10-23T20:03:21  <sipa> feerates were just constructed from an amount
582 2020-10-23T20:03:22  <jtimon> oh, I see
583 2020-10-23T20:03:25  <achow101> michaelfolkson: going through all the keys in the legacy wallet and creating descriptors for them. it requires considering everything that IsMine matches on
584 2020-10-23T20:03:50  <jtimon> yeah, yeah, from an amount is the one I know, murch wants one to parse from rpc
585 2020-10-23T20:03:55  <jtimon> got it
586 2020-10-23T20:03:56  <achow101> for HD wallets, it's pretty simple with computing the xprv for the hd seed and using a single descriptor. for non-HD but still only key things, it's a descriptor for each key
587 2020-10-23T20:04:06  <achow101> for wallets with watchonly things and multisigs, it gets complicated
588 2020-10-23T20:05:19  <jtimon> so what's the status on using bitcoin core with hardware wallets, multisig and all those cool things? is it still a separated branch?
589 2020-10-23T20:05:28  <jtimon> or it is merged now?
590 2020-10-23T20:05:38  <luke-jr> not even close afaik
591 2020-10-23T20:05:45  <jtimon> :(
592 2020-10-23T20:05:52  <sipa> PSBT works
593 2020-10-23T20:05:54  <jonatack> sipa: do you mean discuss in the 20220 PR description the RPC changes of 11413?
594 2020-10-23T20:06:01  <achow101> jtimon: if you're willing to do some command line stuff, it works
595 2020-10-23T20:06:13  <achow101> *do command line stuff and use hwi separately
596 2020-10-23T20:06:16  <sipa> jonatack: no, what changes in 20220
597 2020-10-23T20:06:26  <jtimon> but I need to get a different branch with scripts and stuff, no?
598 2020-10-23T20:06:35  <achow101> jtimon: no
599 2020-10-23T20:06:44  <michaelfolkson> achow101: It effectively has to ask the legacy wallet what the equivalent descriptor is. I'd have thought in some scenarios this would be hard as the legacy wallet wasn't set up to answer that question.
600 2020-10-23T20:07:02  <jtimon> achow101:  oh, I see, so I guess it's more or less a while back, but now merged, nice
601 2020-10-23T20:07:19  <sipa> jtimon: you need HWI or other software that can talk to the hardware wallet
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603 2020-10-23T20:07:42  <jonatack> sipa, 20220 just adds missing test coverage, fixes a bug to make bumpfee work again, and does doc updates that were left over from 11413 (which was 3 years old when it was merged)
604 2020-10-23T20:07:42  <jtimon> are there any plans to add that stuff to the qt interface?
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606 2020-10-23T20:08:01  <sipa> jonatack: oh ok, that explains why i couldn't find anything
607 2020-10-23T20:08:29  <achow101> michaelfolkson: it's just kind of complex. but the set of scriptPubKeys is finite and not log(n!) so it's doable
608 2020-10-23T20:08:41  <achow101> s/log/O
609 2020-10-23T20:08:54  <michaelfolkson> OK thanks achow101
610 2020-10-23T20:09:26  <achow101> jtimon: yes. https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/4
611 2020-10-23T20:09:31  <sipa> achow101, michaelfolkson: i think it depends on what level of compatibility you're talking about; constructing a set of descriptors that match exactly what a legacy wallet *right now* considers IsMine() is doable i think
612 2020-10-23T20:09:39  <jonatack> yes, 20220 doesn't change the RPCs. I started changing them in 20231 today...simpler UI and code.
613 2020-10-23T20:09:49  <achow101> meshcollider: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/16 can be closed/removed/whatever happens to completed project boards
614 2020-10-23T20:10:04  <jtimon> achow101: oh, wow, and the gui is separated? I missed a lot
615 2020-10-23T20:10:07  <sipa> making it also treat IsMine() any future script the legacy would have considered... is probably impossible if you want to cover al edge cases
616 2020-10-23T20:10:15  <sipa> jtimon: same project, different repo
617 2020-10-23T20:10:23  <sipa> it's still compiled as one thing
618 2020-10-23T20:10:45  <sipa> so it's just the development/review workflow that moved elsewhere
619 2020-10-23T20:10:47  <jtimon> oh, ok, just 2 projects for the PRs and stuff, right?
620 2020-10-23T20:10:53  <achow101> yeah
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622 2020-10-23T20:11:48  <achow101> sipa: as long as we don't change legacy ismine, we don't have to worry about future stuff
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625 2020-10-23T20:12:32  <jtimon> well, still very cool that this is getting into the gui
626 2020-10-23T20:12:36  <sipa> achow101: it's also only crazy edge cases that you can't cover i think
627 2020-10-23T20:13:21  <sipa> achow101: like having a HD chain that has a future key X, where multi(2,X,Y,Z) is a watch-only script, with Y and Z private keys you already have
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629 2020-10-23T20:14:16  <achow101> sipa: well stop using the legacy wallet after it migrates :p
630 2020-10-23T20:14:28  <sipa> achow101: of course
631 2020-10-23T20:14:51  <sipa> just means you can't silently do the conversion
632 2020-10-23T20:16:47  <luke-jr> "Welcome to Bitcoin Core 2022.11. You are using an ancient wallet version, that will not be supported in the next release. Do you want to upgrade now? This will invalidate old backups!"
633 2020-10-23T20:17:11  <achow101> luke-jr: that's probably what will happen anyways
634 2020-10-23T20:18:22  <achow101> actually, the current migration pr doesn't let you use the legacy stuff anyways. it currently makes a new descriptor wallets and essentially imports the descriptors for the legacy wallet
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636 2020-10-23T20:19:11  <sipa> achow101: how big is an sqlite wallet.dat if it has 6000 imported descriptors?
637 2020-10-23T20:20:03  <sipa> oh, or will it convert hdchains correctly and only have 6?
638 2020-10-23T20:20:11  <achow101> it should correctly convert hd chains
639 2020-10-23T20:20:51  <achow101> I haven't tested the migration pr with sqlite yet. I think it might be broken
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641 2020-10-23T20:33:38  <sipa> jonatack: so is there anything you'l were thinking of trying to get in 0.21, besides 20220?
642 2020-10-23T20:34:02  <jonatack> sipa: re-reading, i now see your question "but can't you use fee_rate=2 as well"
643 2020-10-23T20:34:38  <jonatack> and that's part of the oddness, with explicit feerate feature, no
644 2020-10-23T20:35:30  <jonatack> and only for BTC/vB iiuc, feeRate doesn't handle sat/B but conf_target with estimate_mode does handle it
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647 2020-10-23T20:36:13  <sipa> too many ideas floating around
648 2020-10-23T20:36:53  <jonatack> yeah it's fairly unsimple and unintuitive
649 2020-10-23T20:39:01  <jonatack> tagged for 0.21 i also have #20115 and #20120, but no hurry, still a week :)
650 2020-10-23T20:39:04  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20115 | cli: -netinfo quick updates/fixups and release note by jonatack · Pull Request #20115 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
651 2020-10-23T20:39:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20120 | net, rpc, test, bugfix: update GetNetworkName, GetNetworksInfo, regression tests by jonatack · Pull Request #20120 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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695 2020-10-23T21:42:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #20233: addrman: make sanity checks a runtime option (master...2020-10-addrman-sanity) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20233
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720 2020-10-23T23:47:26  <achow101> if a multisig isn't being watched, should it be migrated during descriptor wallet migration?
721 2020-10-23T23:53:31  <sipa> achow101: as in, it's not IsMine() in the legacy wallet?
722 2020-10-23T23:53:41  <achow101> sipa: yes
723 2020-10-23T23:53:52  <sipa> i'd say no
724 2020-10-23T23:54:01  <achow101> but it was added and we can sign for it
725 2020-10-23T23:54:32  <sipa> can you have a concept of an "unwatched" descriptor?
726 2020-10-23T23:54:37  <achow101> nope
727 2020-10-23T23:54:43  <sipa> which helps for signing, but isn't watching anything?
728 2020-10-23T23:55:06  <sipa> it would be strange
729 2020-10-23T23:55:36  <achow101> we can sign if it's part of a psbt
730 2020-10-23T23:55:49  <achow101> but we wouldn't be able to fill that psbt with the script
731 2020-10-23T23:55:55  <sipa> right
732 2020-10-23T23:57:44  <sipa> descriptor wallets really don't have a concept that corresponds to that
733 2020-10-23T23:57:59  <achow101> indeed
734 2020-10-23T23:58:08  <sipa> and i think that's a good thing
735 2020-10-23T23:58:33  <sipa> but it may be useful to have an option at migration time to convert all solvable things in the legacy wallet to watched things in the descriptor one
736 2020-10-23T23:59:20  <sipa> if you really want, you'd be able to convert a legacy wallet into a descriptor wallet for balance watching, and another one with "all cruft i can participate in signing for"