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  4 2020-11-17T00:01:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #20407: rpc: Support -rpcauthfile argument (master...2020-11-rpcauthfile) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20407
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  9 2020-11-17T00:29:27  <luke-jr> I don't understand why we lost the high_minversion wallet test
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 11 2020-11-17T00:36:39  <achow101> luke-jr: when was it removed?
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 13 2020-11-17T00:43:23  <luke-jr> achow101: when -upgradewallet CLI was dropped IIRC
 14 2020-11-17T00:43:35  <achow101> yeah, I see. in #15761
 15 2020-11-17T00:43:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15761 | Replace -upgradewallet startup option with upgradewallet RPC by achow101 · Pull Request #15761 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 16 2020-11-17T00:50:13  <achow101> luke-jr: It might have been removed by mistake when -upgradewallet was removed
 17 2020-11-17T00:50:57  <achow101> The test doesn't really need upgradewallet at all, but the fact that it did likely confused me when removing it
 18 2020-11-17T00:53:04  <achow101> feature_backwards_compatibility kind of does the test, but only really on releases and actual incompatibilities. I guess it would be good to re-add it.
 19 2020-11-17T00:53:28  <achow101> it can even be done without including a wallet.dat file by using createfromdump (after that's merged)
 20 2020-11-17T00:53:40  <luke-jr> that one was forwards compat
 21 2020-11-17T00:54:06  <luke-jr> with some hypothetical future wallet version
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103 2020-11-17T05:57:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c48e788246fc...7c0d412a74ba
104 2020-11-17T05:57:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d355a30 lontivero: Break circuit earlier
105 2020-11-17T05:57:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7c0d412 fanquake: Merge #20405: p2p: avoid calculating onion address checksum when version i...
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109 2020-11-17T05:57:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20405: p2p: avoid calculating onion address checksum when version is not 3  (master...tinyrefactoring) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20405
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112 2020-11-17T05:58:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7c0d412a74ba...3457054c61d5
113 2020-11-17T05:58:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b6121ed Tyler Chambers: swapped "is" for "==" in literal comparison
114 2020-11-17T05:58:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3457054 fanquake: Merge #20346: script: modify security-check.py to use "==" instead of "is"...
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118 2020-11-17T05:58:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20346: script: modify security-check.py to use "==" instead of "is" for literal comparison (master...literal-comparison-update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20346
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167 2020-11-17T11:45:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3457054c61d5...c463f70fb05e
168 2020-11-17T11:45:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9636962 Sishir Giri: [upgradewallet] removed unused warning param
169 2020-11-17T11:45:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c463f70 MarcoFalke: Merge #20139: Wallet: do not return warnings from UpgradeWallet()
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172 2020-11-17T11:45:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20139: Wallet: do not return warnings from UpgradeWallet() (master...upgradewallet_rpc_cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20139
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179 2020-11-17T12:05:22  <bitcoin-git> [gui] MarcoFalke merged pull request #96: Slight improve create wallet dialog (master...2020/09/create_wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/96
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182 2020-11-17T12:05:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c463f70fb05e...e7986c51bc7a
183 2020-11-17T12:05:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5bff825 Sjors Provoost: [gui] create wallet: smarter checkbox toggling
184 2020-11-17T12:05:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c99d6f6 Sjors Provoost: gui: create wallet: name placeholder
185 2020-11-17T12:05:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ac64cec Sjors Provoost: gui: create wallet: add advanced section
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197 2020-11-17T12:52:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 14 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7986c51bc7a...80e32e120ee4
198 2020-11-17T12:52:22  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3f72791 Jon Atack: wallet: fix bug in RPC send options
199 2020-11-17T12:52:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6112cf2 Jon Atack: wallet: add CFeeRate ctor doxygen documentation
200 2020-11-17T12:52:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e21212f Jon Atack: wallet: remove unneeded WALLET_BTC_KB_TO_SAT_B constant
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203 2020-11-17T12:52:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20305: wallet: introduce fee_rate sat/vB param/option (master...fee_rate_sat_vb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20305
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205 2020-11-17T12:53:05  <MarcoFalke> looks like we can ship?
206 2020-11-17T12:53:14  <MarcoFalke> Is there anything left other than #20401?
207 2020-11-17T12:53:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20401 | qt: Pre-splitoff translations update by laanwj · Pull Request #20401 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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211 2020-11-17T12:58:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/80e32e120ee4...831675c8dccf
212 2020-11-17T12:58:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bb6441b Wladimir J. van der Laan: qt: Pre-splitoff translations update
213 2020-11-17T12:58:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 831675c fanquake: Merge #20401: qt: Pre-splitoff translations update
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215 2020-11-17T12:58:11  <jonatack> MarcoFalke: (thanks!) maybe #20403 after bugfix update this afternoon
216 2020-11-17T12:58:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20403 | wallet: upgradewallet fixes, improvements, test coverage by jonatack · Pull Request #20403 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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219 2020-11-17T12:58:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20401: qt: Pre-splitoff translations update (master...2020_11_translations_update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20401
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221 2020-11-17T12:59:03  <MarcoFalke> jonatack: I don't think this should hold back an rc1
222 2020-11-17T12:59:11  <MarcoFalke> It can be included in rc2 if it is ready by then
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224 2020-11-17T12:59:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #20408: CConnman: move initialization into Init() (master...202011-connman-fuzz) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20408
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226 2020-11-17T13:00:28  <jonatack> MarcoFalke: sgtm
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258 2020-11-17T14:50:24  <jnewbery> hi folks. We'll get started on the p2p meeting in 10 minutes
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262 2020-11-17T14:58:09  <fanquake> 🕰️
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267 2020-11-17T15:00:13  <jnewbery> #startmeeting
268 2020-11-17T15:00:13  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 17 15:00:13 2020 UTC.  The chair is jnewbery. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
269 2020-11-17T15:00:13  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
270 2020-11-17T15:00:17  <amiti> hi
271 2020-11-17T15:00:21  <jnewbery> #bitcoin-core-dev P2P Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james
272 2020-11-17T15:00:22  <ariard> hello
273 2020-11-17T15:00:27  <jnewbery> amiti fjahr jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2
274 2020-11-17T15:00:34  <jnewbery> fanquake: your clock is 2 minutes fast
275 2020-11-17T15:00:34  <sdaftuar> heya
276 2020-11-17T15:00:36  <troygiorshev> hi!
277 2020-11-17T15:00:55  <jnewbery> Hi folks. Welcome to the first p2p meeting of 22.0!
278 2020-11-17T15:01:00  <ajonas> hi
279 2020-11-17T15:01:11  <sdaftuar> we branched off already?
280 2020-11-17T15:01:13  <jnewbery> The last 0.21 milestone PRs were merged today, so I guess the branch off is imminent.
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282 2020-11-17T15:01:40  <jnewbery> We have one proposed topic for today's meeting: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/P2P-IRC-meetings#17-nov-2020.
283 2020-11-17T15:01:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17 | listaccounts method · Issue #17 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
284 2020-11-17T15:01:59  <ariard> yep
285 2020-11-17T15:02:06  <jnewbery> Before we get to that, I think it'd be useful for us to all share what our goals/priorities are for the 22.0 release cycle.
286 2020-11-17T15:02:12  <jonatack> hi
287 2020-11-17T15:02:28  <jnewbery> does anyone want to go first?
288 2020-11-17T15:02:28  <fanquake> hi
289 2020-11-17T15:02:34  <kanzure> hi
290 2020-11-17T15:03:28  <sdaftuar> i'd say that i think it'd be great to prioritize erlay now
291 2020-11-17T15:03:28  <ariard> Im waiting for https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19160 landing before to go forward with altnet
292 2020-11-17T15:03:47  <ariard> agree with erlay
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294 2020-11-17T15:04:29  <jonatack> BIP 342 implementation. Erlay. (And non-p2p-specific: multiprocess, coinstats, consensus code separation, assumeUTXO...)
295 2020-11-17T15:05:01  <jnewbery> For me, I'd like to make some substantial progress in clarifying the net/net_processing and net_processing/validation interfaces. Those two projects are tracked in #19398 and #20158.
296 2020-11-17T15:05:04  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19398 | Move remaining application layer data to net processing · Issue #19398 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
297 2020-11-17T15:05:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20158 | tree-wide: De-globalize ChainstateManager by dongcarl · Pull Request #20158 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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299 2020-11-17T15:05:19  <sdaftuar> i plan to work on block-relay-only peering too, though i'm stuck on some annoying addr-relay things that might hold me up
300 2020-11-17T15:05:37  <troygiorshev> With the feature freeze now thawed, I wanted to remind everyone about Per-Peer Message logging #19509.  It got a lot of attention a while ago and I think it's a feature a lot of people would appreciate.  Just needs a bit more review!
301 2020-11-17T15:05:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19509 | Per-Peer Message Capture by troygiorshev · Pull Request #19509 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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303 2020-11-17T15:05:51  <troygiorshev> I'm also paying attention to BIP324 #18242
304 2020-11-17T15:05:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18242 | Add BIP324 encrypted p2p transport de-/serializer (only used in tests) by jonasschnelli · Pull Request #18242 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
305 2020-11-17T15:06:08  <jonatack> jnewbery: sdaftuar: good stuff. i plan to resume review of those.
306 2020-11-17T15:06:31  <jnewbery> thanks jonatack!
307 2020-11-17T15:06:42  <jonatack> troygiorshev: thank you, i meant BIP324 :)
308 2020-11-17T15:06:43  <ariard> I'm planning to work on a better version of #18797 and so understand better tx-standarndes before going back to package relay
309 2020-11-17T15:06:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18797 | Export standard Script flags in bitcoinconsensus by ariard · Pull Request #18797 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
310 2020-11-17T15:07:34  <amiti> in terms of my work: hoping to make progress on 19315 (adding full-relay and block-relay-only to tests), and I'm working on reviving rebroadcast
311 2020-11-17T15:07:34  <nehan> hi
312 2020-11-17T15:09:00  <jonatack> amiti: will review
313 2020-11-17T15:09:02  <jnewbery> ok, anyone want to add any topics before we get onto "Reducing CVE-2020-26895 class of bugs and Tx-standardness" (ariard)
314 2020-11-17T15:09:14  <gleb> Hi
315 2020-11-17T15:09:16  <aj> touch base on wtxid backport?
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317 2020-11-17T15:09:56  <jnewbery> hi aj. Yes, let's do that one first
318 2020-11-17T15:10:09  <jnewbery> #topic touch base on wtic backport (aj)
319 2020-11-17T15:10:09  <core-meetingbot> topic: touch base on wtic backport (aj)
320 2020-11-17T15:10:41  <jnewbery> *wtxid
321 2020-11-17T15:10:43  <sdaftuar> i'm not sure we should have backported wtxid-relay to the 0.20 branch
322 2020-11-17T15:11:09  <aj> #20317 and #20399
323 2020-11-17T15:11:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20317 | Backport wtxid orphan fetch to v0.20 by jnewbery · Pull Request #20317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
324 2020-11-17T15:11:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20399 | Revert "Merge #19606: Backport wtxid relay to v0.20" by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #20399 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
325 2020-11-17T15:11:17  *** da39a3ee5e6b4b0d <da39a3ee5e6b4b0d!~da39a3ee5@cm-171-98-79-192.revip7.asianet.co.th> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
326 2020-11-17T15:12:08  <aj> afaik, #19620 which is in 0.19 and 0.20 already does everything we really need wtxid to do backport-wise for taproot
327 2020-11-17T15:12:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19620 | Add txids with non-standard inputs to reject filter by sdaftuar · Pull Request #19620 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
328 2020-11-17T15:12:59  <aj> so 20399 is there to revert wtxid relay from 0.20; or 20317 is there to fix up the orphan handling regression if there's a reason to keep it
329 2020-11-17T15:13:02  <sdaftuar> (i missed that github discussion, catching up now)
330 2020-11-17T15:13:11  <jnewbery> I don't have a strong opinion, but I
331 2020-11-17T15:13:51  <jnewbery> 'm curious what has changed since this was discussed in a previous meeting, when people agreed that it should be backported
332 2020-11-17T15:14:30  <aj> 19620 imo
333 2020-11-17T15:15:41  <anekdotin> great job guys
334 2020-11-17T15:15:47  <sdaftuar> (ok caught up)
335 2020-11-17T15:16:16  <sdaftuar> i think that knowing that there was a crashing bug in that line of work sort of heightens the sense that backporting a feature is not really a great idea?
336 2020-11-17T15:16:53  <sdaftuar> i don't think backporting it was a requirement in the first place, but i saw the reasoning that it was a nice-to-have.  but given that it indeed turned out to be risky, i'd say let's drop it, as there's no compelling reason for backport after #19620 either
337 2020-11-17T15:16:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19620 | Add txids with non-standard inputs to reject filter by sdaftuar · Pull Request #19620 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
338 2020-11-17T15:17:17  <sdaftuar> so falling back on our principle of only backporting bugfixes seems like the prudent thing
339 2020-11-17T15:20:08  <jonatack> A propos, sharing a message from moneyball who mentioned tripling down on testing (bug discovery+fixes) between now and the 0.21 release with all of the new features.
340 2020-11-17T15:20:14  *** TallTim <TallTim!~TallTim@184-83-248-206-dynamic.midco.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
341 2020-11-17T15:20:36  <jnewbery> sdaftuar: do you think it should be reverted?
342 2020-11-17T15:20:39  <sdaftuar> yeah
343 2020-11-17T15:21:15  <jnewbery> because we're not confident in the code?
344 2020-11-17T15:21:19  <sdaftuar> if 0.21 has some other crashign bug related to wtxid-relay, it'd be great to be able to go back to 0.20.2 or whatever and have it not crash!
345 2020-11-17T15:21:32  *** blardo <blardo!~blardo@178.239.168.171> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
346 2020-11-17T15:22:19  <aj> jnewbery: so i think your review beg on oct-20th should've resulted in some sort of a "do we really still need this?" response, rather than silence both here and on the PR -- i think that was the only time it was mentioned in these meetings since 19620
347 2020-11-17T15:23:18  <jnewbery> aj: yeah, people agreed in the original meeting that it should have been backported, and then I've raised reviewing the PR in several meetings since then
348 2020-11-17T15:23:52  <jnewbery> I don't think the presence of a bug that was caught in review and fixed in the follow up changes the facts, but I can understand that it makes people nervous
349 2020-11-17T15:24:35  <jnewbery> so if people want it out, then it should be reverted
350 2020-11-17T15:25:20  <jnewbery> #action revert #20317
351 2020-11-17T15:25:21  <core-meetingbot> ACTION: revert #20317
352 2020-11-17T15:25:23  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20317 | Backport wtxid orphan fetch to v0.20 by jnewbery · Pull Request #20317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
353 2020-11-17T15:25:23  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20317 | Backport wtxid orphan fetch to v0.20 by jnewbery · Pull Request #20317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
354 2020-11-17T15:26:01  <jnewbery> #topic Reducing CVE-2020-26895 class of bugs and Tx-standardness (ariard)
355 2020-11-17T15:26:01  <core-meetingbot> topic: Reducing CVE-2020-26895 class of bugs and Tx-standardness (ariard)
356 2020-11-17T15:26:07  <ariard> hello
357 2020-11-17T15:26:47  <ariard> first and foremost, I apologize for the previous rounds of discussion on this issue, it was a bit noisy to talk grasp problem right this without this vuln being public
358 2020-11-17T15:27:00  *** mol <mol!~mol@unaffiliated/molly> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
359 2020-11-17T15:28:00  <ariard> for the context, lnd didn't check that counterparty commitment signatures were in the curve order /2
360 2020-11-17T15:28:42  <ariard> which means a malicous counterparty was able to feed them with non-relayable witness and thus complete break its security
361 2020-11-17T15:29:03  *** da39a3ee5e6b4b0d <da39a3ee5e6b4b0d!~da39a3ee5@cm-171-98-79-192.revip7.asianet.co.th> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
362 2020-11-17T15:29:14  <ariard> because those time-sensitive transactions won't propagate before timelock expiration
363 2020-11-17T15:29:29  <ariard> of the HTLCs
364 2020-11-17T15:30:21  <ariard> I think the lesson it's not the first time that a LN implementation had issues with tx-standard, CL had some 2y ago IIRC about minimal relay fee
365 2020-11-17T15:31:14  <ariard> so it sounds we have this class of vulns concerning any time-sensitive protocols, and how to mitigate it correctly is a bit unclear
366 2020-11-17T15:31:30  <luke-jr> be strict on transaction form..
367 2020-11-17T15:31:31  <sdaftuar> testmempoolaccept?
368 2020-11-17T15:31:34  <aj> testmempoolaccept RPC isn't useful because you don't want to finish signing the tx, i guess?
369 2020-11-17T15:31:50  <luke-jr> you can never rely on node/relay policies
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371 2020-11-17T15:32:00  <luke-jr> just have to do what you can to reasonably pass them
372 2020-11-17T15:32:19  <luke-jr> testmempoolaccept only tells you about your own policy
373 2020-11-17T15:32:24  <ariard> aj: my concern with testmempoolaccept its checks are blurred with the fees ones
374 2020-11-17T15:32:43  <ariard> but your transaction is okay because you plan to broadcast only in the future
375 2020-11-17T15:33:01  <sdaftuar> luke-jr: i agree, but perhaps a belt and suspenders approach where you enforce a strict transaction form and also double-check against testmempoolaccept might be helpful
376 2020-11-17T15:33:17  <luke-jr> it might detect bugs I suppose
377 2020-11-17T15:33:25  <ariard> also you have a really code architecture thing, LN mobiles won't have a mempool but they need to do the check
378 2020-11-17T15:33:25  <sdaftuar> or unexpected changes
379 2020-11-17T15:34:01  <sdaftuar> ariard: i think you'll need to specify the problem a bit better if you are assuming not having access to a full node
380 2020-11-17T15:34:04  <luke-jr> ariard: it can't be secure without your own full node anyway
381 2020-11-17T15:34:06  <sdaftuar> for instance, do you have access to all the inputs?
382 2020-11-17T15:34:20  *** mol_ <mol_!~mol@unaffiliated/molly> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
383 2020-11-17T15:34:33  <ariard> luke-jr: you might receive the headers from a trusted connection to your full node on your LN node
384 2020-11-17T15:34:53  <luke-jr> so you mean you don't have RPC access?
385 2020-11-17T15:35:02  <ariard> sdaftuar: I think we should assume no, it's concering any kind of LN clients
386 2020-11-17T15:35:06  <luke-jr> too bad we removed the reject message..
387 2020-11-17T15:35:16  <sdaftuar> ariard: if no, then isn't this problem hopeless?
388 2020-11-17T15:35:38  <ariard> sdaftuar: you have access to the funding utxo of your channel
389 2020-11-17T15:35:49  <ariard> always, that's a protocol assumption
390 2020-11-17T15:36:04  <sdaftuar> ariard: but if i include an input you don't know about, then you must reject the transaction, because you have no way of knowing if it's valid, let alone standard?
391 2020-11-17T15:36:11  <ariard> what you want to verify is the chain of transaction built from this utxo (commitment+HTLC txn) are tx-relay "valid"
392 2020-11-17T15:36:46  <ariard> sdaftuar: for commitment transaction the utxo is 2-of-2
393 2020-11-17T15:36:50  <luke-jr> ariard: not possible to do reliably..
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396 2020-11-17T15:38:02  <ariard> luke-jr: at least you should be able to be sure your transaction is accepted by your full-node
397 2020-11-17T15:38:04  <luke-jr> nodes will relay what they want; there are no consensus rules forcing relay
398 2020-11-17T15:38:26  <luke-jr> ariard: sure
399 2020-11-17T15:38:27  <ariard> luke-jr: I finally agree with you on this, it's more a LN-client to its full-node relation we should care about?
400 2020-11-17T15:39:13  <luke-jr> ariard: so this part of problem is because you don't necessarily have RPC access, and we no longer support the reject msg?
401 2020-11-17T15:40:01  <ariard> luke-jr: I think it's more subtle, you have those LN transactions, that both you and your counterparty must agree on, but ultimately their validity is decided by your full-node
402 2020-11-17T15:40:09  <aj> ariard: what good is a commitment tx with a low fee rate that won't be acceptable possibly for months? don't you want to know that your node will (currently) reject that?
403 2020-11-17T15:40:37  <luke-jr> hmm, I suppose the TXOs spent in it migth also not be something you want broadcast yet
404 2020-11-17T15:40:47  <ariard> aj: in the future we might have fixed-fee commitment transactions and their feerate adjusted by a CPFP+package relay
405 2020-11-17T15:40:58  <ariard> but I may jump one step in the reasoning here, hard to see
406 2020-11-17T15:41:15  *** AaronvanW <AaronvanW!~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
407 2020-11-17T15:41:30  <aj> ariard: right, but at that point you'd expect testmempoolaccept to support packages
408 2020-11-17T15:41:45  <sdaftuar> aj: bold :)
409 2020-11-17T15:42:18  <aj> sdaftuar: (easier to implement package testmempoolaccept than package relay anyway?)
410 2020-11-17T15:42:32  <ariard> luke-jr: what's concerning is right now we are leaking those policy check directly in the LN spec, but we may should do the reverse and let those tx-relay be ultimaltey defined by LN clients
411 2020-11-17T15:42:39  <sdaftuar> aj: fewer DoS vectors to worry about for sure!
412 2020-11-17T15:42:53  <glozow> aj: hey guess what
413 2020-11-17T15:43:03  <aj> glozow: you already did it??
414 2020-11-17T15:43:23  <ariard> aj: yes if this the case, it's more a cod architecture reason, to have a strict transaction form lib
415 2020-11-17T15:43:48  <glozow> a little bit, i have a math test this week though, and then i'll send you my draft of package testmempoolaccept
416 2020-11-17T15:43:52  <luke-jr> ariard: the spec just needs to be narrow enough that there's a good hope any tx will be accpeted
417 2020-11-17T15:44:42  <ariard> aj: we shouldn't require LN clients to have access to all the utxo set, you just care about your channel utxo only, testmempoolaccept assume you have access to the full set rn?
418 2020-11-17T15:44:43  <luke-jr> double-checking against your own node makes sense, but ultimately shouldn't be your security check
419 2020-11-17T15:45:13  <luke-jr> ariard: to open a channel, you need access to the entire UTXO set to be sure the inputs are valid..
420 2020-11-17T15:45:49  <sdaftuar> ariard: oh, yes you're right that testmempoolaccept requires all inputs to be available in mempool or utxo set, so if you're testing validity further down a chain that won't work right now
421 2020-11-17T15:45:58  <aj> ariard: i think if you pull some checks out of "here's my full node" into "here's my light library" you'll run the same risk of missing some checks that are actually needed; but ymmv of course
422 2020-11-17T15:46:00  <ariard> luke-jr: I see your point, but you might not have access to the UTXO set for the rest of the discussion
423 2020-11-17T15:46:08  <ariard> *protocol execution, sorry
424 2020-11-17T15:46:54  *** mol_ <mol_!~mol@unaffiliated/molly> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
425 2020-11-17T15:47:05  <ariard> aj: yes that's exactly my worry, mempool checks are a bit blurred, and some we are interested with are also inside the script interpreter
426 2020-11-17T15:47:14  <aj> ariard: maybe a psbt validator could make more sense, alternatively? partial so you don't need all the inputs or even all the signatures, but still get useful results like "fees look low!" "this is a dust output!" "this signature is wrong!"
427 2020-11-17T15:48:06  <aj> ariard: psbts are (probably) common enough that it would justify thorough useful (re)implementation of standardness and consensus and sanity checks
428 2020-11-17T15:48:12  <ariard> luke-jr: without entering in a light-client debtate, for LN if you assume people are using light-clients, it's not reason for them not being at least secure on tx-relay checks
429 2020-11-17T15:48:18  <ariard> lke layering security reasoning
430 2020-11-17T15:48:47  *** mol <mol!~mol@unaffiliated/molly> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
431 2020-11-17T15:49:19  <jnewbery> ariard: testmempoolaccept does require the full UTXO set, but you could imagine a version where you provide the inputs, like signrawtransaction
432 2020-11-17T15:49:21  <sdaftuar> philosophically though there is no such thing as "bitcoin's tx relay rules". i think that's luke's fundamental point (which I agree with)
433 2020-11-17T15:49:22  <ariard> aj: only validating the inputs and not the other transaction check like version, number of max outputs
434 2020-11-17T15:49:25  <ariard> ?
435 2020-11-17T15:49:42  <aj> ariard: validating all the other stuff seems relevant for psbts in general, i think?
436 2020-11-17T15:49:53  <luke-jr> ariard: your non-debatable premise is false
437 2020-11-17T15:50:10  <ariard> sdaftuar: I finally agree with it, what I'm trying to understand is the margin we might have to make thing better
438 2020-11-17T15:50:53  <sdaftuar> i think the best we can do is what luke suggested already: narrow what you accept to a small enough subset that you think will likely to always be relayable now and in the future, and hope for the best.
439 2020-11-17T15:51:28  <sdaftuar> testing validity against a bunch of full-node implementations is a nice backup to make sure your code isn't broken or things haven't changed out from under you
440 2020-11-17T15:53:02  <aj> sdaftuar: not very robust against hostile peers who have access to your code base to find checks you forgot to implement, though; hard to fuzz test for valid-but-non-standard sigs and the like even, afaik
441 2020-11-17T15:53:09  <ariard> I see the point, which means anytime someone is implementing or desinging a L2 protocol you have to open your full-node code and understand those blurred checks
442 2020-11-17T15:53:42  <jnewbery> ariard: do you have what you need from this discussion? Anything else you need or could use help with?
443 2020-11-17T15:53:52  <ariard> aj: we should assume your counterparty shouldn't be able to observe your full-node implementation or policy, but can we really do this?
444 2020-11-17T15:54:44  <ariard> jnewbery: if I'm reworking on a #18797 as a wrapper on top of testmempoolaccept like libconsensus is anyone have strong NACK?
445 2020-11-17T15:54:47  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18797 | Export standard Script flags in bitcoinconsensus by ariard · Pull Request #18797 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
446 2020-11-17T15:55:20  <ariard> for code architecture reason, not making an assumption your LN client has access to a RPC interace
447 2020-11-17T15:56:12  <jnewbery> I don't understand what you mean as a 'wrapper on top of testmempoolaccept'
448 2020-11-17T15:56:59  <ariard> jnewbery: on top of ATMP, but it sounds we need to be able to pass a partial utxo set first to it
449 2020-11-17T15:57:07  <jnewbery> but in any case, we should wrap this up. It's almost endmeeting time.
450 2020-11-17T15:57:22  <jnewbery> Any last minute topics before we close?
451 2020-11-17T15:57:27  <gleb> Just wanted to let you guys know that #18261 is ready for review (despite Travis being a bit unhappy, fixing that)
452 2020-11-17T15:57:27  <sdaftuar> if you mean add package support to testmempoolaccept, i think that would be reasonable
453 2020-11-17T15:57:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18261 | Erlay: bandwidth-efficient transaction relay protocol by naumenkogs · Pull Request #18261 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
454 2020-11-17T15:57:36  <sdaftuar> gleb: nice!
455 2020-11-17T15:57:40  <ariard> yeah people want to run those LN clients on hardware, and you might not want to run a full-node with full resource on this
456 2020-11-17T15:57:47  <ariard> jnewbery: sure, thanks anyone for the discussion
457 2020-11-17T15:57:54  <jnewbery> sdaftuar: glozow has a draft implementation of that
458 2020-11-17T15:57:59  <aj> gleb: haha, was just checking logs to see if it'd be rude to ask about that
459 2020-11-17T15:58:16  <jnewbery> thanks gleb!
460 2020-11-17T15:58:17  <ariard> jnewbery: is it coalesing the feerate check ?
461 2020-11-17T15:58:34  <jnewbery> ariard: yes, returns feerate for each individual tx and the package
462 2020-11-17T15:59:06  <jnewbery> ok, that's time. Thanks all!
463 2020-11-17T15:59:08  <jnewbery> #endmeeting
464 2020-11-17T15:59:08  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
465 2020-11-17T15:59:09  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 15:59:08 2020 UTC.
466 2020-11-17T15:59:09  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-11-17-15.00.moin.txt
467 2020-11-17T15:59:14  <ariard> jnewbery: checking if the feerate of the whole package is okay while one of the transaction might be under the mempool min fee
468 2020-11-17T16:02:28  <jnewbery> ariard: I believe it would reject the package if any of the txs are below the min feerate (which makes sense while we don't have package relay). That could be changed later
469 2020-11-17T16:03:22  <sipa> hi
470 2020-11-17T16:03:29  <sipa> i guess i'm a bit late
471 2020-11-17T16:03:30  <sdaftuar> sipa: off by one hour?
472 2020-11-17T16:03:37  <luke-jr> XD
473 2020-11-17T16:03:42  <sipa> actually i just forgot
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475 2020-11-17T16:04:27  <pinheadmz> what time is the p2p meeting in UTC? the event just floated around my calendar due to daylight savings
476 2020-11-17T16:05:10  <ariard> jnewbery: right, let do step by step, it's not bad to un-blurred those checks
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478 2020-11-17T16:06:52  <ariard> aj: I need to think about your psbt validator suggestion, because the caller being able to select the verification scope, it let you validate counterparty signature without actually to produce yours
479 2020-11-17T16:07:33  <ariard> and that's a good thing, for LN, in the happy case you don't have to generate your LN commitment signature
480 2020-11-17T16:10:44  <aj> ariard: might be something that's useful elsewhere (hardware wallets, multisig setups in general), which might help it stay maintained
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485 2020-11-17T16:35:11  <jnewbery> pinheadmz: it's 15:00 UTC on alternate Tuesdays: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/P2P-IRC-meetings
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492 2020-11-17T17:36:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery closed pull request #20317: Backport wtxid orphan fetch to v0.20 (0.20...2020-07-v20-wtxid-orphan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20317
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507 2020-11-17T18:30:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20410: wallet: Do not treat default constructed types as None-type (master...2011-rpcWalletNoneType) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20410
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509 2020-11-17T18:37:31  <achow101> so branching soon?
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512 2020-11-17T18:40:35  <MarcoFalke> https://i.redd.it/az0w7m53abb21.png
513 2020-11-17T18:41:35  <MarcoFalke> ping wumpus :)
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517 2020-11-17T18:51:00  <miketwenty1> Q: is there an equivalent gitian.sigs for guix build process?
518 2020-11-17T18:52:03  <sipa> i assumed we'd just run the guix build inside gitian, but haven't followed in detail
519 2020-11-17T18:56:10  <luke-jr> same here
520 2020-11-17T18:56:19  <luke-jr> especially since Guix still requires trusted third-party blobs
521 2020-11-17T18:56:33  <miketwenty1> sipa, right now in bitcoin-core repo we have the gitian sigs for non guix process .. but would we have a sigs folder for guix build process or am i thinking about this incorrectly?
522 2020-11-17T18:57:02  <achow101> I would expect that we would keep the same assert files and have them in the same repo
523 2020-11-17T18:57:05  <luke-jr> miketwenty1: at some point, I expect the gitian descriptors will be rewritten to use Guix instead of Ubuntu, and the depends/ build system will go away
524 2020-11-17T18:57:12  <achow101> it would just be a slightly misnamed repo
525 2020-11-17T18:57:19  <luke-jr> misnamed?
526 2020-11-17T18:57:51  <miketwenty1> i see.. seems like the idea here is gitian build process improves with guix instead of replaces it?
527 2020-11-17T18:57:54  <achow101> gitian.sigs wouldn't be strictly tied to gitian because in theory you could produce them without gitian
528 2020-11-17T18:58:15  <luke-jr> achow101: in theory you already could :P
529 2020-11-17T18:58:25  <achow101> I would expect the gitian descriptors to do the guix build because that makes the transition easier
530 2020-11-17T18:58:31  <sipa> once we have guix-based deterministic builds, much of what gitian provides would be technically overkill
531 2020-11-17T18:58:36  <luke-jr> miketwenty1: gitian is providing less of the deterministic stuff with guix
532 2020-11-17T18:58:54  <sipa> but given that it already exists, and has infrastructure around it, it's probably easier to keep it (and just use guix inside gitian)
533 2020-11-17T18:59:40  <achow101> luke-jr: iirc guix can be fully bootstrapped with only trusting a single small blob that is kind of verifiable. but it also takes forever to build everything
534 2020-11-17T19:07:16  <wumpus> achow101: MarcoFalke: will do the split-off tomorrow morning (europe time)
535 2020-11-17T19:07:37  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Thanks
536 2020-11-17T19:07:44  <achow101> ack
537 2020-11-17T19:08:05  <luke-jr> achow101: "a single small blob" is still a blob
538 2020-11-17T19:08:21  <luke-jr> and it's not very verifiable
539 2020-11-17T19:08:34  <achow101> luke-jr: it can be disassembled and verified
540 2020-11-17T19:09:08  <luke-jr> achow101: it's still too big for that
541 2020-11-17T19:09:18  <MarcoFalke> I am not sure if it is easier to set up gitian than guix these days
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543 2020-11-17T19:10:36  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I have failed to setup Guix to date
544 2020-11-17T19:10:41  <luke-jr> after spending hours on it
545 2020-11-17T19:11:39  <MarcoFalke> It will still be easier to set up a debian vm and run the one-line install command for you than to setup gitian on a debian vm
546 2020-11-17T19:12:18  <achow101> I have it setup but I don't remember how I did it
547 2020-11-17T19:12:22  <luke-jr> "one-line install command" does not get you a trustless setup
548 2020-11-17T19:12:45  <luke-jr> achow101: mind you, I refuse to run third-party binaries, and am using ppc64le
549 2020-11-17T19:13:15  <MarcoFalke> Ok, then wait for debian to ship guix in the package manager, this will be as trustless as the current gitian build
550 2020-11-17T19:13:19  <luke-jr> I suppose it's not entirely fair since I don't have gitian working on ppc64le, and Ubuntu is a huge blob :P
551 2020-11-17T19:13:43  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I don't use Debian.
552 2020-11-17T19:14:11  <MarcoFalke> Our gitian descriptors use debian/ubuntu
553 2020-11-17T19:14:18  <luke-jr> inside the VM, yes
554 2020-11-17T19:14:58  <MarcoFalke> So if you don't trust them, I doubt you can trust the overall build setup
555 2020-11-17T19:15:38  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: again, Guix is an improvement over Ubuntu, I fully agree with that
556 2020-11-17T19:15:53  <luke-jr> but it isn't an alternative for gitian entirely at this point
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558 2020-11-17T19:16:36  <luke-jr> gitian can be setup without trusted binaries (outside the VM)
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