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 63 2020-11-23T06:41:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #20440: build: fix determinism issue when building qt with Clang 8 (master...no_echo_fix_clang_qt_determinism) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20440
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 66 2020-11-23T06:43:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #20436: depends: Add a nasty qt hack to work around clang non-determinism (0.21...fix-clang-qt-determinism) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20436
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 77 2020-11-23T07:39:56  <wumpus>  luke-jr: it's often like that, the "nothing in computers is really new since the 60's" effect :)
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 79 2020-11-23T07:46:21  <wumpus> I do remember old discussions about compiler determinism (I think 90's?), it was something that mostly came up for niche safety critical systems, there were some really strong voices in gcc compiler devs that didn't regard it as necessary, because there was the perception it was at odds with some heuristic/randomized optimization algorithms
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 85 2020-11-23T08:30:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20456: test: Fix intermittent issue in mempool_compatibility (master...2011-testFixMempool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20456
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 97 2020-11-23T09:27:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e9a1c9fbdea9...1b75f2542d15
 98 2020-11-23T09:27:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fabecce MarcoFalke: net: Treat raw message bytes as uint8_t
 99 2020-11-23T09:27:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1b75f25 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20432: net: Treat raw message bytes as uint8_t
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102 2020-11-23T09:27:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20432: net: Treat raw message bytes as uint8_t (master...2011-netBytesUint8) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20432
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105 2020-11-23T09:30:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1b75f2542d15...86bf3ae3b57e
106 2020-11-23T09:30:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b33af48 Andrew Chow: Include wallet/bdb.h where it is actually being used
107 2020-11-23T09:30:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a58b719 Andrew Chow: Do not compile BDB things when USE_BDB is defined
108 2020-11-23T09:30:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6ebc41b Andrew Chow: Enforce salvage is only for BDB wallets
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111 2020-11-23T09:31:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20202: wallet: Make BDB support optional (master...opt-sqlite-bdb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20202
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118 2020-11-23T09:42:22  <promag> time to ditch -rpcuser -rpcpassword from daemon?
119 2020-11-23T09:42:54  <wumpus> not sure, really, I think a lot of people are still using them (including me), and it's documented all over the place
120 2020-11-23T09:43:07  <promag> I know
121 2020-11-23T09:43:17  <wumpus> it has always been a difficult thing to deprecate
122 2020-11-23T09:43:58  <wumpus> it's a simple way to specify the user and password *shrug*, does it really complicate the code that much
123 2020-11-23T09:44:14  <promag> no no, I'm just asking X)
124 2020-11-23T09:44:49  <wumpus> sure but I mean an argument like 'it complicates the authentication code a lot' would be in favor of removing them
125 2020-11-23T09:45:05  <promag> it doesn't
126 2020-11-23T09:45:27  <promag> on bitcoin-cliu
127 2020-11-23T09:45:31  <promag> err
128 2020-11-23T09:46:02  <promag> on bitcoin-cli we are sending cookie as authorization: basic ... header
129 2020-11-23T09:46:27  <promag> I think this should be authorization: bearer
130 2020-11-23T09:46:38  <wumpus> lots of other software does that too by now
131 2020-11-23T09:46:48  <wumpus> I don't really see a reason to change it
132 2020-11-23T09:46:53  <promag> do you think it's a reasonable change to do in -cli?
133 2020-11-23T09:47:34  <wumpus> nah, to me it feels like a sudden change out of the blue
134 2020-11-23T09:47:39  <promag> we could start by fixing our clients (cli and test framework)
135 2020-11-23T09:47:41  <wumpus> don't we have any bugs to fix
136 2020-11-23T09:47:59  <promag> ok
137 2020-11-23T09:48:17  <promag> also invalid -rpcauth are just silently ignored, Russel suggested to log and fail init
138 2020-11-23T09:48:21  <promag> makes sense to you?
139 2020-11-23T09:48:23  <wumpus> agree on that
140 2020-11-23T09:48:37  <wumpus> silently ignoring errors is the biggest sin
141 2020-11-23T09:49:02  <promag> ok, also agree
142 2020-11-23T09:49:28  <wumpus> we've come a really long way in that regard!
143 2020-11-23T09:51:08  <wumpus> still remember opening #1044 in frustration :)
144 2020-11-23T09:51:10  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1044 | Problems with command-line options silently ignored · Issue #1044 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
145 2020-11-23T09:52:28  <promag> heh opened from 2012 to 2018
146 2020-11-23T09:52:33  <wumpus> yess
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148 2020-11-23T09:57:56  <wumpus> not for lack of proposals though, it was just difficult code to change
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150 2020-11-23T09:59:01  <wumpus> the code is a lot more organized now
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152 2020-11-23T09:59:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #20457: util: Make Parse{Int,UInt}{32,64} use locale independent std::from_chars(…) (C++17) instead of locale dependent strto{l,ll,ul,ull} (master...locale-independent-parseint) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20457
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160 2020-11-23T10:33:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #20458: test: add is_bdb_compiled helper (master...2020/11/use_bdb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20458
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169 2020-11-23T10:43:00  <Kiminuo> Hi, can I run locally this test https://cirrus-ci.com/task/6292799064637440?command=ci#L3354 to repeat it exactly? Meaning, to run it in Docker to reproduce the issue.
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171 2020-11-23T10:47:44  <wumpus> don't know about docker, but you can run the test suite locally with test/functional/test_runner.py
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173 2020-11-23T10:49:40  <Kiminuo> true, but the issue is that I don't see that specific error
174 2020-11-23T10:49:58  <Kiminuo> there is some difference between my environment and of that test
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176 2020-11-23T10:50:15  <wumpus> it should be possible to run the ci/* stuff in docker I just don't know exactly how
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178 2020-11-23T10:50:46  <Kiminuo> yeah. I was looking for some instructions but I was not successful.
179 2020-11-23T10:50:49  <wumpus> looks like there's something in the readme https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/ci
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181 2020-11-23T10:51:09  <Kiminuo> ha
182 2020-11-23T10:51:12  <Kiminuo> good, thanks
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184 2020-11-23T10:51:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20459: rpc: Fail to return undocumented return values (master...2011-rpcDoc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20459
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202 2020-11-23T11:28:22  <vasild> MarcoFalke: I think s/std::fs/std::filesystem/ is warranted in #20460
203 2020-11-23T11:28:23  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20460 | C++17 std::fs · Issue #20460 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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215 2020-11-23T12:07:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #20461: qa: Validate -rpcauth arguments (master...2020-11-validate-rpcauth) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20461
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220 2020-11-23T12:37:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/86bf3ae3b57e...b0c9024a7cf6
221 2020-11-23T12:37:18  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 68c2ef1 Andrew Chow: Fix version string in Windows and Mac installers
222 2020-11-23T12:37:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b0c9024 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20449: build: Fix Windows installer build
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225 2020-11-23T12:37:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20449: build: Fix Windows installer build (master...fix-gitian-installers) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20449
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228 2020-11-23T12:51:24  <fanquake> Is it really a surprise when Qt's build system does neither what you've told it to do, or what it's told you it's going todo
229 2020-11-23T12:51:57  <fanquake> Apparently this was more obvious if you'd read the release notes from 3 versions prior
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231 2020-11-23T12:58:42  <wumpus> qt's build system is so special
232 2020-11-23T12:59:11  <wumpus> wish they would just switch to one of the standard ones
233 2020-11-23T13:00:09  <fanquake> You tell it to build in c++1z mode (our qt is a little old heh), it tells you it's going to build in c++1z mode, it instead just builds in c++11 mode
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235 2020-11-23T13:01:53  <wumpus> 'z' is the verilog symbol for high impedance so it's read as a '1' of course
236 2020-11-23T13:02:44  <fanquake> ah yes of course
237 2020-11-23T13:04:29  <wumpus> well it's good to realize this while in the rc phase i guess
238 2020-11-23T13:05:57  <fanquake> This should only be an issue for master. I'm going to flick all the c++17 switches in depends
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240 2020-11-23T13:08:04  <wumpus> right, 0.21 is still entirely built in c++11 mode
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246 2020-11-23T13:25:38  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b0c9024a7cf6...555b5d1bf940
247 2020-11-23T13:25:38  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a52ecc9 fanquake: build: set minimum supported macOS to 10.14
248 2020-11-23T13:25:39  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 555b5d1 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20419: build: set minimum supported macOS to 10.14
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251 2020-11-23T13:25:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20419: build: set minimum supported macOS to 10.14 (master...macos_minimum_10_14) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20419
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254 2020-11-23T13:38:35  <wumpus> fanquake: I don't entirely understand the outstanding issue in #20422, does it block merge?
255 2020-11-23T13:38:37  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20422 | build: mac deployment unification by fanquake · Pull Request #20422 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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258 2020-11-23T13:50:43  <fanquake> wumpus: probably. The issue is that with those changes, if you're on macOS and run make deploy (with the latest mac_alias installed), it will fail, due to what I think is a bug in mac_alias. The cross-compile is unaffected, because we are pinned to the previous version of mac_alias in depends. As a workaround, mac users could also install the previous version.
259 2020-11-23T13:51:02  <fanquake> This hasn't been an issue for mac users until now, because the Python currently used by the native mac build would construct and run an "Applescript", which would modify the dmg during creation (also the source of the annoying "popup" behaviour).
260 2020-11-23T13:51:31  <fanquake> I just haven't been motivated to figure out what the issue is with mac_alias is yet
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262 2020-11-23T13:55:26  <wumpus> thanks for explaining, it's more clear to me now
263 2020-11-23T13:56:24  <wumpus> maybe the new version of mac_alias is broken or at the least incompatible with what we do
264 2020-11-23T13:58:55  <fanquake> The  previous version came  out ~2.5 years ago,  so it's quite possible something has broken/changed in a backwards incompatible way.
265 2020-11-23T13:59:23  <fanquake> The new version also adds support for new versions of records as well
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268 2020-11-23T14:07:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #20462: RPC/Wallet: unloadwallet: Clarify docs/error when both the RPC request and wallet_name parameter specify a wallet (master...unloadwallet_namematch_pt1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20462
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271 2020-11-23T14:10:07  <wumpus> "NameError: name 'kind' is not defined" is a really strange error on assignment to kind
272 2020-11-23T14:13:03  <wumpus> wait... https://github.com/al45tair/mac_alias/blob/master/mac_alias/alias.py#L282 doesn' look like valid python at all
273 2020-11-23T14:13:25  <wumpus> you can't just end a line with assignment targets in ,
274 2020-11-23T14:14:02  <wumpus> would have worked with (kind, volname, ...) with paranthesis around it
275 2020-11-23T14:15:40  <luke-jr> what is cr ACK O.o
276 2020-11-23T14:16:26  <wumpus> fanquake: so clearly an upstream issue!
277 2020-11-23T14:16:36  <wumpus> luke-jr: huh?
278 2020-11-23T14:18:29  <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20462#issuecomment-732187813
279 2020-11-23T14:20:01  <wumpus> I guess cr=code review
280 2020-11-23T14:21:06  <luke-jr> aha, makes sense
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296 2020-11-23T14:53:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to 0.20: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a2fa11f9de78...75bf23d8613a
297 2020-11-23T14:53:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 fa074d2 MarcoFalke: Revert "Merge #19606: Backport wtxid relay to v0.20"
298 2020-11-23T14:53:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 75bf23d MarcoFalke: Merge #20399: Revert "Merge #19606: Backport wtxid relay to v0.20"
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301 2020-11-23T14:54:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20399: Revert "Merge #19606: Backport wtxid relay to v0.20" (0.20...2011-prepare020release) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20399
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304 2020-11-23T14:55:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/555b5d1bf940...2ee954daaee5
305 2020-11-23T14:55:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b87caf1 Sjors Provoost: test: add is_bdb_compiled helper
306 2020-11-23T14:55:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2ee954d MarcoFalke: Merge #20458: test: add is_bdb_compiled helper
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309 2020-11-23T14:55:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20458: test: add is_bdb_compiled helper (master...2020/11/use_bdb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20458
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330 2020-11-23T17:30:09  <achow101> Should I reopen #20447 for the 0.21 branch?
331 2020-11-23T17:30:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20447 | depends: Patch qt_intersect_spans to avoid non-deterministic behavior in LLVM 8 by achow101 · Pull Request #20447 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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339 2020-11-23T17:48:08  <MarcoFalke> Is everyone on the clang-9 train? If not, it could make sense for master as well
340 2020-11-23T17:50:12  <hebasto> achow101: I vote for that
341 2020-11-23T17:50:39  <achow101> i think it's reasonable to merge into master and then revert when clang 9 is merged
342 2020-11-23T17:51:01  <hebasto> sounds good
343 2020-11-23T17:51:21  <achow101> i think there's some hesitation about clang 9 because apple has only blessed clang 8 for the sdk we use
344 2020-11-23T17:52:16  <hebasto> I read about that many times in our community, but every time without justification
345 2020-11-23T17:53:11  <achow101> the concern is that clang 9 could have introduced something which apple doesn't like
346 2020-11-23T17:53:40  <achow101> I don't have an opinion on this since I work with neither clang nor macOS
347 2020-11-23T17:53:49  <hebasto> yes, I understand the concern. but is it in real life?
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349 2020-11-23T17:54:23  <achow101> afaik there aren't any problems, just vague "maybe there's an edge case"
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351 2020-11-23T17:59:45  <hebasto> achow101: I'vr updated my https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20447#pullrequestreview-536690642
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353 2020-11-23T18:06:58  <vasild_> Ditch old compilers!
354 2020-11-23T18:07:19  *** vasild_ is now known as vasild
355 2020-11-23T18:07:27  <hebasto> new owns have memcmp bug
356 2020-11-23T18:10:33  <MarcoFalke> that's gcc, not clang
357 2020-11-23T18:12:35  <wumpus> definitely for master I'd say just upgrade the compiler
358 2020-11-23T18:12:45  <wumpus> for 0.21 I'd be okay with that as well
359 2020-11-23T18:13:16  <promag> ryanofsky: I think we are discussing in the wrong place, sorry provoostenator
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361 2020-11-23T18:15:48  <promag> ryanofsky: with you approach the async function would block right? for instance with Qt::BlockingQueuedConnection. Is this fine?
362 2020-11-23T18:16:02  <wumpus> but for 0.21 I'm also fine with patching the build system or qt spans function, I very much don't like that as a long term solution
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368 2020-11-23T18:33:34  <miketwen_> hey .. still trying to figure out what I need to do to get my PR merged for gitian.sigs. Also, fanquake: the newest merged commit in gitian sigs with oliver gugger is breaking the verify script. https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/issues/1316
369 2020-11-23T18:34:19  *** miketwen_ is now known as miketwenty1
370 2020-11-23T18:35:46  <miketwenty1> in reference to my gitian PR. https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/pull/1307. Would someone tell me what this needs to be merged in.
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375 2020-11-23T19:08:44  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
376 2020-11-23T19:08:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20464: refactor: Treat CDataStream bytes as uint8_t (master...2011-dataStream) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20464
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389 2020-11-23T19:52:04  <wumpus> you shouldn't have to do anything to get your PR for gitian.sigs merged, it's just that rc1 was kind of abandoned so no one is probably in a hurry
390 2020-11-23T19:52:27  <wumpus> I'll merge it
391 2020-11-23T19:52:50  <wumpus> oh already is okay
392 2020-11-23T19:52:56  <miketwenty1> yeah.. Marco got me
393 2020-11-23T19:53:09  <miketwenty1> thanks though.. will keep my eye out on rc2 or 21.1
394 2020-11-23T19:53:15  <wumpus> great :)
395 2020-11-23T20:01:41  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
396 2020-11-23T20:01:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20466: test: Fix intermittent p2p_finerprint issue (master...2011-testIntFixp2p) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20466
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399 2020-11-23T20:02:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipsorcery closed pull request #20392: WIP: Switch appveyor build from Release to Debug (master...msvc-appveyor-debug-build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20392
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402 2020-11-23T20:04:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2ee954daaee5...cb89e1884585
403 2020-11-23T20:04:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa1f949 MarcoFalke: ci: Run nowallet ci config on cirrus
404 2020-11-23T20:04:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa73674 MarcoFalke: ci: Run i686 centos ci config on cirrus
405 2020-11-23T20:04:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa7a438 MarcoFalke: ci: Fix doc typos in .cirrus.yml
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408 2020-11-23T20:04:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19179: ci: Run ci configs on cirrus (master...2006-ciCirrus) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19179
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411 2020-11-23T20:18:25  <luke-jr> wumpus: might make sense to get Win/Linux rc1 out there for testing at least?
412 2020-11-23T20:21:32  <wumpus> I'm not sure what's the wait for rc2 now
413 2020-11-23T20:22:23  <wumpus> but if it takes much longer to decide which of the competing determinism fixes to do for mac I'd agree, this doesn't affect any other OSes
414 2020-11-23T20:22:40  <wumpus> it doesn't even really affect testing for macos
415 2020-11-23T20:23:55  <wumpus> in any case people that can build from source can test rc1 fine
416 2020-11-23T20:24:24  <luke-jr> but they could have tested master too :P\
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421 2020-11-23T20:54:04  <wumpus> sure, almost no difference at the moment
422 2020-11-23T21:06:56  *** helo <helo!~helo@unaffiliated/helo> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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426 2020-11-23T21:30:22  <achow101> would it be reasonable to change CFeeRate::GetFee to always round up?
427 2020-11-23T21:32:37  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
428 2020-11-23T21:32:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dongcarl closed pull request #20019: depends: Properly pass $PATH to configure and pin (master...2020-09-resolve-PATH-prepending-madness) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20019
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431 2020-11-23T21:42:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] tylerchambers opened pull request #20468: build: don't allow manpages to be generated for binaries built from a dirty branch (master...fix-20412) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20468
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437 2020-11-23T22:05:01  <aj> wumpus: re bitcoin-util; would be happy to add "grind" to bitcoin-tx and have a new PR that introduces a bitcoin-util that at least does a few things
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447 2020-11-23T23:19:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dergoegge opened pull request #20469: build: Avoid secp256k1.h include from system (master...fixincludeorder) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20469
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451 2020-11-23T23:27:01  <wumpus> aj: I just don't see the principal distinction between bitcoin-util and bitcoin-tx
452 2020-11-23T23:27:35  <sipa> bitcoin-tx only operates on transactions, and allows multiple operations on it
453 2020-11-23T23:27:50  <wumpus> if we would have known in advance that people would want to add utility functions that don't necessarily have to do with transactions, the better name would have been bitcoin-util, but that ship has sailed
454 2020-11-23T23:27:50  <sipa> not sure how you'd integrate non-tx-mutating operations into it
455 2020-11-23T23:29:07  <sipa> i guess you can integrate all bitcoin-tx's operations into a -util, by only allowing one operation per invocation
456 2020-11-23T23:29:35  <wumpus> having only one 'general utilities' binaries would be nice at least
457 2020-11-23T23:29:39  <wumpus> binary*
458 2020-11-23T23:29:50  <luke-jr> library*
459 2020-11-23T23:30:02  <wumpus> I don't particularly want the same as for the fuzzers
460 2020-11-23T23:30:35  <wumpus> it'd be a library if that wasn't so difficult to do in a useful cross-platform usable way
461 2020-11-23T23:32:22  <wumpus> a library has to handle all kinds of things like multi-threaded clients, different dynamic linking concepts, ABIs, bindings to different languages etc etc
462 2020-11-23T23:32:46  <wumpus> try calling from bash into a library
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464 2020-11-23T23:33:47  <wumpus> computing is such a mess and we're not going to solve that in this project !!!
465 2020-11-23T23:34:49  <fanquake> we've just decided to solve money instead; because that's much less of a mess!
466 2020-11-23T23:35:07  <sipa> haha
467 2020-11-23T23:35:08  <wumpus> ... well one giant mess at a time is fair isn't it
468 2020-11-23T23:35:53  <midnight> make friends with bunnie and offer accommodation for coreside precursor support if necessary :-D
469 2020-11-23T23:35:58  * midnight ducks
470 2020-11-23T23:36:04  <wumpus> let's pretend these things are sepaate and can be solved  one at a time, just for old times sake
471 2020-11-23T23:37:16  <luke-jr> fanquake: lol
472 2020-11-23T23:37:50  <wumpus> if not it's such a total screaming madness it's not even addressable
473 2020-11-23T23:37:54  <wumpus> midnight: heh
474 2020-11-23T23:40:38  <luke-jr> I mean, we already need to address threading for our own use…
475 2020-11-23T23:41:07  <luke-jr> bindings don't have to be our problem either, and ABIs are fairly straightforward
476 2020-11-23T23:41:27  <luke-jr> (perhaps not for the user side, but for the library developer)
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478 2020-11-23T23:43:11  <wumpus> well it's easier to offer it as an utility, it doesn't rule out making it a library later
479 2020-11-23T23:43:24  <wumpus> there are more design decisions involved inthat.
480 2020-11-23T23:44:57  <wumpus> blame POSIX or the UNIX model or whatever you want *shrug* but as it stands, a process it the most straightforward interface
481 2020-11-23T23:46:31  <luke-jr> it would be nice if C grew the annotations needed to automate bindings
482 2020-11-23T23:47:04  <wumpus> yes
483 2020-11-23T23:47:13  <luke-jr> would also make for better compile-time warnings I bet
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485 2020-11-23T23:51:14  <aj> wumpus: i guess i think everything you currently use bitcoin-tx for should switch to psbt's; and it'd be easier to do that via a new command
486 2020-11-23T23:53:00  <wumpus> it would also have been less of a problem to have different binaries (if you want a binary per entry point) if dynamic libraries were more standardized across platforms, right now we use, by necessity, a semi-static linking approach, so every binary ends up duplicating everything it links
487 2020-11-23T23:54:20  <wumpus> because evertyhing is broken it ends up at a (pre-)80's common denominator
488 2020-11-23T23:55:26  <wumpus> aj: you mean the current bitcoin-tx would be deprecated in the long run?
489 2020-11-23T23:55:31  <aj> wumpus: yeah
490 2020-11-23T23:55:46  <aj> wumpus: leave it as-is for compatability for a while of course
491 2020-11-23T23:57:18  <sipa> aj: having a psbt standalone utility would be awesome
492 2020-11-23T23:57:38  <sipa> (i don't have an opinion on inside bitcoin-util or elsewhere)
493 2020-11-23T23:57:53  <wumpus> that makes sense, though I don't see how it relates to the signet grinding functionality
494 2020-11-23T23:58:18  <aj> sipa: #14671 proposes that
495 2020-11-23T23:58:19  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14671 | Utility to replace RPC calls that dont need wallet or chain context · Issue #14671 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
496 2020-11-23T23:58:28  <wumpus> it seems kind of detached from everything so you could just as well add it to anything
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498 2020-11-23T23:59:05  <sipa> aj: that seems to lack the most useful one :p
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500 2020-11-23T23:59:25  <sipa> something that you give one or more PSBTs, and one or more descriptors, and it updates/processes/signs everything it knows how to
501 2020-11-23T23:59:42  <aj> sipa: that needs wallet info?