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 61 2020-12-03T03:50:50  <aj> #proposedmeetingtopic bitcoin-util cli utility for 19937 (see also 14671 and 18573)
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 80 2020-12-03T06:01:59  <bitcoin-git> [gui] Bosch-0 opened pull request #143: Add icon policy documentation (master...icon_policy) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/143
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 83 2020-12-03T06:03:29  <bitcoin-git> [gui] Bosch-0 opened pull request #144: Merge pull request #1 from bitcoin-core/master (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/144
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 86 2020-12-03T06:03:50  <bitcoin-git> [gui] Bosch-0 closed pull request #144: Merge pull request #1 from bitcoin-core/master (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/144
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124 2020-12-03T09:11:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a35b948836db...681ce59d0eac
125 2020-12-03T09:11:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fad7be5 MarcoFalke: test: Fix intermittent p2p_finerprint issue
126 2020-12-03T09:11:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 681ce59 MarcoFalke: Merge #20466: test: Fix intermittent p2p_fingerprint issue
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130 2020-12-03T09:12:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20466: test: Fix intermittent p2p_fingerprint issue (master...2011-testIntFixp2p) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20466
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133 2020-12-03T09:19:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20556: rpc: Properly document return values (submitblock, gettxout, getblocktemplate, scantxoutset) (master...2012-rpcDoc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20556
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136 2020-12-03T09:37:17  <promag> MarcoFalke: is #20017 something to push forward? what is the best time work on it?
137 2020-12-03T09:37:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20017 | rpc: Add RPCContext by promag · Pull Request #20017 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
138 2020-12-03T09:43:27  <MarcoFalke> promag: Heh, depends on other reviewers
139 2020-12-03T09:48:30  <promag> I don't mean to merge. with branch 21 "done" maybe its something to work on early on 22
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145 2020-12-03T10:40:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #20548: RPC: Tolerate unknown parameters, but with clear warning/errors (master...soften_rpcauth) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20548
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154 2020-12-03T11:39:14  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #20557: addrman: Fix new table bucketing during unserialization (master...2020-12-fix-addrman-bucketing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20557
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163 2020-12-03T12:23:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/681ce59d0eac...a3186b6da60e
164 2020-12-03T12:23:47  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c82d15b Hennadii Stepanov: depends: Do not force Precompiled Headers (PCH) for building Qt on Linux
165 2020-12-03T12:23:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a3186b6 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20520: depends: Do not force Precompiled Headers (PCH) for building...
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168 2020-12-03T12:24:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20520: depends: Do not force Precompiled Headers (PCH) for building Qt on Linux (master...201127-pch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20520
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179 2020-12-03T13:03:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20558: test: Add MaybeCompactWalletDB tsan suppression (take 2) (master...2012-testSanTsan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20558
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184 2020-12-03T13:05:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] naumenkogs closed pull request #20539: Avoid rebucketing on restart when it's not necessary (master...2020-12-01-rebucket-asmap-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20539
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196 2020-12-03T13:42:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a3186b6da60e...3fa6a9fc8c90
197 2020-12-03T13:42:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8b99e60 Aaron Clauson: Adjusted msvc compiler and linker settings to remove optimisations that ar...
198 2020-12-03T13:42:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2c69381 Aaron Clauson: Removed redundant git pull from appveyor config.
199 2020-12-03T13:42:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3fa6a9f Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #20506: ci: AppVeyor fixes for Visual Studio 2019 16.8.1 image
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202 2020-12-03T13:42:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20506: ci: AppVeyor fixes for Visual Studio 2019 16.8.1 image (master...msvc-no-optimise) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20506
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208 2020-12-03T13:54:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3fa6a9fc8c90...a0489f3472f3
209 2020-12-03T13:54:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 467c346 Hennadii Stepanov: net: Drop unneeded Windows headers in compat.h
210 2020-12-03T13:54:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f796f00 Hennadii Stepanov: net: Drop unneeded headers when compat.h included
211 2020-12-03T13:54:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cadb77a Hennadii Stepanov: net: Add compat.h header for htonl function
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214 2020-12-03T13:55:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20221: net: compat.h related cleanup (master...201022-compat) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20221
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221 2020-12-03T14:07:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] testingaccount234234 opened pull request #20559: Update README.md (master...fix-readme-term-change) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20559
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224 2020-12-03T14:09:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #20559: Update README.md (master...fix-readme-term-change) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20559
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229 2020-12-03T14:24:34  <vasild> hebasto: I guess s/a0489f3/0e2d9ef/ in your comment https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20182#issuecomment-738023008
230 2020-12-03T14:25:57  <hebasto> vasild: thanks! fixed
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232 2020-12-03T14:28:44  <vasild> yw :)
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247 2020-12-03T15:41:26  <miketwenty1> Question about bitcoin builds and gitian builds, when you build from source you can put in build options/flags to exclude/include certain things like whether or not the wallet, UPnP, zmq.. are these build options baked into gitian builds to enable everything? If I for example wanted to do a gitian build and not build someone or include something do I have this flexibility?
248 2020-12-03T15:42:16  <miketwenty1> not build something* like exclude wallet
249 2020-12-03T15:42:44  <fanquake> yes
250 2020-12-03T15:42:55  <fanquake> just adjust the CONFIGFLAGS in the gitian descriptor
251 2020-12-03T15:42:56  <fanquake> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-linux.yml#L42
252 2020-12-03T15:43:52  <miketwenty1> ok.. but this would now result in different binaries if you start messing with the descriptor files right?
253 2020-12-03T15:44:28  <fanquake> yes
254 2020-12-03T15:51:37  <miketwenty1> in the future / even with guix .. would you imagine gitian sigs for multiple common options for each minor/major release of bitcoin?  like one with everything enabled.. another build is just the node.. another build with zmq and maybe a few other things .. etc..
255 2020-12-03T15:54:02  <fanquake> Yes that's possible, and probably quite likely. I'd imagine there are many people running bitcoin nodes, that have no interest in it supporting UPNP, ZMQ, or even having the wallet compiled into it.
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260 2020-12-03T16:06:51  <luke-jr> jnewbery: are you trolling? "to make life easier for maintainers of downstream projects."
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262 2020-12-03T16:10:55  <luke-jr> I mean, not only is the premise false, but you're saying you want to reject my PRs simply to go out of the way to discriminate against and make things harder for me personally?
263 2020-12-03T16:22:06  <harding> luke-jr: what are you responding to?
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265 2020-12-03T16:23:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20560: fuzz: Link all targets once (master...2012-fuzzLinkOnce) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20560
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267 2020-12-03T16:25:14  <harding> Ah, that was a comment from https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20548
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275 2020-12-03T17:11:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #20550: RPC: Tolerate invalid rpcauth options (master...soften_rpcauth2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20550
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278 2020-12-03T17:13:07  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: please stop abusing github access
279 2020-12-03T17:13:51  <MarcoFalke> the pull has three NACKs, I am personally fine with it, but I don't see how it could be merged
280 2020-12-03T17:14:17  <luke-jr> there isn't a single NACK
281 2020-12-03T17:16:20  <luke-jr> and all three negative-sounding comments, are based on false assumptions
282 2020-12-03T17:16:48  <luke-jr> (contrast to the change this is fixing, where I had in fact posted a reasoned NACK on true premises)
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284 2020-12-03T17:17:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #20550: RPC: Tolerate invalid rpcauth options (master...soften_rpcauth2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20550
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287 2020-12-03T17:22:06  <promag> > On the command line only, not in config files
288 2020-12-03T17:22:20  <promag> why?
289 2020-12-03T17:23:16  <promag> what's the reason for this behavior? I wasn't aware of it
290 2020-12-03T17:23:38  <promag> and are you saying that -rpcauth=foo on the cmdline should fail?
291 2020-12-03T17:23:51  <luke-jr> promag: config files are expected to possibly have unknown options
292 2020-12-03T17:24:18  <luke-jr> -rpcauth=foo on the cmdline failing sounds okay - I can't think of a use case for tolerating that
293 2020-12-03T17:24:32  <promag> this is a known option though
294 2020-12-03T17:24:35  <luke-jr> and it would match the existing behaviour
295 2020-12-03T17:24:54  <promag> it's a known option with an invalid value
296 2020-12-03T17:24:57  <luke-jr> promag: >3 fields is unknown
297 2020-12-03T17:26:19  <promag> no, it's invalid
298 2020-12-03T17:26:40  <luke-jr> …
299 2020-12-03T17:27:32  <promag> for instance, -zmqpubrawtx=foo is invalid, not unknown
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301 2020-12-03T17:29:06  <luke-jr> except rpcauth isn't zmqpubrawtx
302 2020-12-03T17:29:30  <luke-jr> it's a group
303 2020-12-03T17:30:18  <luke-jr> it also has no effect on startup/running
304 2020-12-03T17:32:00  <promag> iirc invalid zmqpubrawtx fails init
305 2020-12-03T17:33:57  <promag> hmm checking
306 2020-12-03T17:34:07  <luke-jr> as it needs to
307 2020-12-03T17:34:14  <luke-jr> ZMQ is something that needs to be understood at startup..
308 2020-12-03T17:34:27  <luke-jr> it actually affects what startup does
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310 2020-12-03T17:37:01  <sipa> why would rpcauth be any different?
311 2020-12-03T17:37:30  <sipa> if software doesn't know what an option means, it should fail
312 2020-12-03T17:37:42  <luke-jr> it can fail at runtime, for that one user
313 2020-12-03T17:37:43  <sipa> this seems especially true for something as security-sensitive as rpcauth
314 2020-12-03T17:38:28  <luke-jr> it can be reasonably assumed that >3 fields would be used for more details in the future
315 2020-12-03T17:39:20  <sipa> what if the option means "only allowed to run certain RPCs"?
316 2020-12-03T17:39:30  <luke-jr> that's why it fails at runtime ;)
317 2020-12-03T17:39:40  <sipa> that seems incredibly annoying
318 2020-12-03T17:39:44  <luke-jr> how?
319 2020-12-03T17:39:58  <sipa> "wth is this not working"
320 2020-12-03T17:40:01  <luke-jr> we don't throw errors if the config file has GUI options, in non-GUI builds..
321 2020-12-03T17:40:13  <luke-jr> sipa: well, that's why my first PR had an explanatory error..
322 2020-12-03T17:40:18  <sipa> because they have a known meaning
323 2020-12-03T17:40:50  <harding> But if the future config says that user foo can only run RPC bar and you use that config with an old node, now user foo can run dumpwallet.  That doesn't sound sane.
324 2020-12-03T17:41:09  <luke-jr> harding: that's not correct; it will refuse to let user foo do anything
325 2020-12-03T17:41:21  <sipa> harding: luke-jr's point is that this should be detected, and then refuse *any* RPCs from that user
326 2020-12-03T17:41:37  <luke-jr> sipa: that's how it always worked, yes
327 2020-12-03T17:41:41  <sipa> which is not crazy, but still far more annoying than just failing
328 2020-12-03T17:42:09  <luke-jr> sipa: #20548 would give the user "Invalid rpcauth configuration line" as an error
329 2020-12-03T17:42:10  <harding> Ok.  Agree that's not insane.
330 2020-12-03T17:42:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20548 | RPC: Tolerate unknown parameters, but with clear warning/errors by luke-jr · Pull Request #20548 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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332 2020-12-03T17:46:16  <luke-jr> sipa: annoying in theory for some corner case that probably has never occurred, perhaps; but the new behaviour is annoying in practice for real users..
333 2020-12-03T17:47:22  <luke-jr> (or if you want to pretend Knots doesn't exist, it's a lot more realistic a hypothesis to talk about users of a future Core version making use of the 4th+ field)
334 2020-12-03T17:47:52  <sipa> luke-jr: i don't think the existence of Knots is relevant in this discussion
335 2020-12-03T17:48:41  <luke-jr> my point is it's a lot more realistic an annoyance to error at startup, than to error at runtime might be in some weird case
336 2020-12-03T17:48:56  <sipa> i'm not confinced about that
337 2020-12-03T17:48:58  <luke-jr> k
338 2020-12-03T17:49:07  <promag> tbh I prefer startup errors
339 2020-12-03T17:49:15  <luke-jr> err, how not? (sorry, misread "convinced" as "confused")
340 2020-12-03T17:49:33  <luke-jr> promag: even when it isn't actually an error?
341 2020-12-03T17:50:15  <luke-jr> users of Core 99.0 intentionally putting these rpcauth lines in their config file, is far more likely than someone putting a truly erroneous line
342 2020-12-03T17:50:31  <sipa> i can see the argument in favor of instituting a policy that future rpcauth flags are reserved for future restrictions of the permission, and thus that it is safe to treat unknown ones as "act as if the auth line didn't exist"
343 2020-12-03T17:50:58  <sipa> but that's orthogonal to the question if we should in general aim to reject unknown options
344 2020-12-03T17:51:17  <luke-jr> and the former would be forced to jump through hoops to workaround the behaviour, where the latter wouldn't really need to do anything different
345 2020-12-03T17:51:35  <luke-jr> (error at startup vs runtime means the latter needs to fix the problem either way)
346 2020-12-03T17:51:53  <sipa> yes, but at startup you immediately know the problem is there and fix it
347 2020-12-03T17:52:14  <sipa> if it happens at runtime it may result in wondering why CoinFancyPoolMixer stopped working
348 2020-12-03T17:52:15  <luke-jr> but with erroring at startup, the former case has no real solution but to maintain two config files and keep renaming them
349 2020-12-03T17:52:25  <luke-jr> all to workaround an erroneous error message..
350 2020-12-03T17:52:57  <sipa> but it's not an erroneous message; if the node can't do what you're asking it to do in the configuration, something is wrong and you need to fix it
351 2020-12-03T17:53:04  <sipa> as it's won't do what you ask it to do
352 2020-12-03T17:53:10  *** luke-jr <luke-jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
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355 2020-12-03T18:03:24  <luke-jr> [17:49:33] <luke-jr> promag: even when it isn't actually an error?
356 2020-12-03T18:03:26  <luke-jr> [17:50:15] <luke-jr> users of Core 99.0 intentionally putting these rpcauth lines in their config file, is far more likely than someone putting a truly erroneous line
357 2020-12-03T18:03:28  <luke-jr> [17:51:17] <luke-jr> and the former would be forced to jump through hoops to workaround the behaviour, where the latter wouldn't really need to do anything different
358 2020-12-03T18:03:29  <luke-jr> [17:51:34] <luke-jr> (error at startup vs runtime means the latter needs to fix the problem either way)
359 2020-12-03T18:03:31  <luke-jr> [17:52:15] <luke-jr> but with erroring at startup, the former case has no real solution but to maintain two config files and keep renaming them
360 2020-12-03T18:04:15  <sipa> if you're going to frequently switch between different versions, it seems entirely reasonable to have 2 config files and use -conf
361 2020-12-03T18:04:36  * luke-jr peers at freenode
362 2020-12-03T18:05:04  <sipa> or, more likely, not rely on any features that are only present in one version
363 2020-12-03T18:08:36  <luke-jr> all the avoid one node restart of some hypothetical guy with a truly erroneous rpcauth line that is unlikely to ever exist…?
364 2020-12-03T18:09:29  <sipa> no
365 2020-12-03T18:09:57  <sipa> to make sure that someone who is relying on a future command line option doesn't need to break his head over why it isn't working
366 2020-12-03T18:10:23  <sipa> i'm talking generically, not specifically about rpcauth
367 2020-12-03T18:11:27  <promag> I'd bet lots of startups were lost to bad -rpcauth :)
368 2020-12-03T18:12:10  <luke-jr> I'm starting to like promag's -strict idea
369 2020-12-03T18:12:35  <sipa> i think that will fail to have the same effect; people just won't turn it on
370 2020-12-03T18:12:42  <luke-jr> sipa: it could possibly be on by default
371 2020-12-03T18:12:49  <sipa> that's fair
372 2020-12-03T18:12:53  <luke-jr> then people who want to switch between versions regularly can just put strict=0 in bitcoin.conf
373 2020-12-03T18:13:06  <promag> yeah, on by default
374 2020-12-03T18:17:16  <promag> like gcc -Werror
375 2020-12-03T18:17:27  <luke-jr> well, -Werror is not on by default :P
376 2020-12-03T18:20:59  *** zndtoshi <zndtoshi!~zndtoshi@79.112.20.148> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
377 2020-12-03T18:21:10  <promag> right, bad example because it is an error in the first place x)
378 2020-12-03T18:22:23  <luke-jr> promag: so do you want to do the PR, or should I? :p
379 2020-12-03T18:22:31  *** owowo <owowo!~ovovo@unaffiliated/ovovo> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
380 2020-12-03T18:23:01  <promag> you mean -strict ?
381 2020-12-03T18:23:04  <luke-jr> yes
382 2020-12-03T18:24:17  <promag> hmmm
383 2020-12-03T18:26:02  <promag> :) I mean, if it gets concept ack why not, it could be discussed in the meeting
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386 2020-12-03T18:39:43  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
387 2020-12-03T18:39:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #20561: p2p: periodically clear m_addr_known, and choose new peers to receive relayed addresses (master...2020-12-moar-addrz) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20561
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390 2020-12-03T18:50:41  <jnewbery> luke-jr: not trolling. If a PR is opened where the goal is primarily to make things easier for downstream projects, then (1) that should be explicitly declared in the PR description (2) it should be judged for inclusion in Bitcoin Core solely on whether it's a benefit to the users of this project.
391 2020-12-03T18:52:35  <wumpus> agreed...
392 2020-12-03T18:58:55  <luke-jr> jnewbery: that wasn't even the case here
393 2020-12-03T18:59:19  <wumpus> what is this altnerative syntax that you introduced in a downstream project anyway?
394 2020-12-03T19:00:12  <jonatack> meeting?
395 2020-12-03T19:00:16  <achow101> meeting?
396 2020-12-03T19:00:24  <sipa>     meeting?
397 2020-12-03T19:00:28  <wumpus> we could, I guess, ignore alternative syntax that we know about and don't support, though it's a bit strange
398 2020-12-03T19:00:35  <wumpus> but it's better than ignoring all errors
399 2020-12-03T19:00:38  <wumpus> #startmeeting
400 2020-12-03T19:00:38  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Dec  3 19:00:38 2020 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
401 2020-12-03T19:00:38  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
402 2020-12-03T19:00:40  <jonasschnelli> hi
403 2020-12-03T19:00:45  <jonatack> hi
404 2020-12-03T19:00:46  <promag> howdy
405 2020-12-03T19:00:51  <hebasto> hi
406 2020-12-03T19:00:57  <jnewbery> hi
407 2020-12-03T19:00:58  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
408 2020-12-03T19:01:00  <wumpus> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
409 2020-12-03T19:01:01  <luke-jr> wumpus: #10615 has supported a 4th field with a wallet name
410 2020-12-03T19:01:04  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10615 | RPC: Allow rpcauth configs to specify a 4th parameter naming a specific wallet by luke-jr · Pull Request #10615 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
411 2020-12-03T19:01:23  <achow101> hi
412 2020-12-03T19:01:30  <wumpus> luke-jr: oh okay, so separate access control per wallet
413 2020-12-03T19:01:32  <amiti> hi
414 2020-12-03T19:01:42  <fjahr> hi
415 2020-12-03T19:01:46  <sipa>  hi
416 2020-12-03T19:02:22  <luke-jr> wumpus: yes; not sure what else it could be used for, but the behaviour of rejecting the line (at runtime) should be generally safe
417 2020-12-03T19:02:23  <aj> hi
418 2020-12-03T19:02:24  <luke-jr> hi
419 2020-12-03T19:02:27  <wumpus> two proposed topics for today: rc3, 0.19 release, 0.20 release (marcofalke), bitcoin-util cli utility for 19937 (aj)
420 2020-12-03T19:03:00  <MarcoFalke> hi
421 2020-12-03T19:03:05  <luke-jr> wumpus: maybe should add -strict if we have time
422 2020-12-03T19:03:07  <jonasschnelli> #19937
423 2020-12-03T19:03:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19937 | signet mining utility by ajtowns · Pull Request #19937 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
424 2020-12-03T19:03:27  *** jesseposner <jesseposner!~jp@2601:643:8980:bfd2:21a3:28f3:d78:7f10> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
425 2020-12-03T19:03:44  <wumpus> any last minute topics anyone wants to discuss?
426 2020-12-03T19:04:10  *** Chris_Stewart_5 <Chris_Stewart_5!~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
427 2020-12-03T19:04:25  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
428 2020-12-03T19:04:25  <core-meetingbot> topic: High priority for review
429 2020-12-03T19:04:46  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  11 blockers, 2 chasing concept ACK
430 2020-12-03T19:05:27  <jonatack> can rm #20483
431 2020-12-03T19:05:30  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20483 | wallet: deprecate feeRate in fundrawtransaction/walletcreatefundedpsbt by jonatack · Pull Request #20483 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
432 2020-12-03T19:06:06  <wumpus> jonatack: done
433 2020-12-03T19:06:09  <MarcoFalke> I'd like to switch mine out for #20362
434 2020-12-03T19:06:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20362 | test: Implicitly sync after generate* to preempt races and intermittent test failures by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #20362 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
435 2020-12-03T19:06:13  <jonatack> (it can't go in until we have estimatefeerate / setfeerate)
436 2020-12-03T19:06:23  *** vasild <vasild!~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
437 2020-12-03T19:06:37  *** Emcy <Emcy!~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
438 2020-12-03T19:07:10  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: done
439 2020-12-03T19:07:14  <wumpus> jonatack: yes, makes sense
440 2020-12-03T19:07:14  <MarcoFalke> thx
441 2020-12-03T19:07:24  <jonatack> (e.g. sat/vB versions of settxfee and estimatesmartfee)
442 2020-12-03T19:08:17  <wumpus> anything else to add/remove? or that's ready to merge?
443 2020-12-03T19:08:40  <wumpus> #19937 is already a topic in itself
444 2020-12-03T19:08:43  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19937 | signet mining utility by ajtowns · Pull Request #19937 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
445 2020-12-03T19:09:04  <hebasto> jnewbery: kindly reminder to rebase #19910
446 2020-12-03T19:09:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19910 | net processing: Move peer_map to PeerManager by jnewbery · Pull Request #19910 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
447 2020-12-03T19:09:18  *** Emcy <Emcy!~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
448 2020-12-03T19:09:31  <jnewbery> hebasto: thanks. Will do!
449 2020-12-03T19:10:35  <wumpus> #topic rc3, 0.19 release, 0.20 release (marcofalke)
450 2020-12-03T19:10:36  <core-meetingbot> topic: rc3, 0.19 release, 0.20 release (marcofalke)
451 2020-12-03T19:10:58  <MarcoFalke> ok, 0.19 first. Are we going to tag a release?
452 2020-12-03T19:11:02  <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/46 is empty
453 2020-12-03T19:11:16  <wumpus> sounds fine to me
454 2020-12-03T19:11:18  <MarcoFalke> if yes, are we going to gitian build?
455 2020-12-03T19:11:23  <luke-jr> might as well do a rc1 at least
456 2020-12-03T19:11:33  <wumpus> I think that's what he means, tag rc1
457 2020-12-03T19:11:36  <luke-jr> whether there will be enough people who test it to warrant a final, dunno
458 2020-12-03T19:12:24  <wumpus> well we can tag it we'll see if people care about building it
459 2020-12-03T19:12:24  <luke-jr> looks like 0.19 is still pretty common use
460 2020-12-03T19:12:35  <MarcoFalke> Ok, so it seems 0.19.2rc1 soon
461 2020-12-03T19:12:37  <luke-jr> ~12% of the network
462 2020-12-03T19:12:40  <MarcoFalke> Then 0.20
463 2020-12-03T19:12:46  <wumpus> not really something I care about but tagging isn't much work
464 2020-12-03T19:12:57  <wumpus> 0.20 on the other hand
465 2020-12-03T19:13:02  <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/49
466 2020-12-03T19:13:26  <MarcoFalke> There is one issue, hasen't gotten more review
467 2020-12-03T19:13:31  <MarcoFalke> What to do about that?
468 2020-12-03T19:13:42  <MarcoFalke> outstanding thing is #19740
469 2020-12-03T19:13:45  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19740 | [0.20] wallet: Simplify and fix CWallet::SignTransaction by achow101 · Pull Request #19740 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
470 2020-12-03T19:13:58  <luke-jr> most 0.19 nodes are 0.19.0.1 still
471 2020-12-03T19:14:00  <hebasto> if 0.21 is around the coner is 0.19.2 really needed?
472 2020-12-03T19:14:24  <MarcoFalke> hebasto: At least the tag, so that people building from source can use it
473 2020-12-03T19:14:25  <luke-jr> hebasto: doesn't hurt
474 2020-12-03T19:14:33  <hebasto> ok
475 2020-12-03T19:14:50  <MarcoFalke> the branch will be deleted eventually, so a tag also helps to archive the latest branch
476 2020-12-03T19:15:08  <wumpus> looks like 19740 has some difficulty getting review, please focus on that, 0.20 is much more relevant
477 2020-12-03T19:15:10  <hebasto> MarcoFalke: I see
478 2020-12-03T19:15:31  <MarcoFalke> does 19740 warrant holding back 0.20.2?
479 2020-12-03T19:15:46  <wumpus> maybe we should add it to high prio
480 2020-12-03T19:15:50  <luke-jr> probably not
481 2020-12-03T19:15:56  <wumpus> achow101: here?
482 2020-12-03T19:16:05  <MarcoFalke> I think we should ping reviewers directly
483 2020-12-03T19:16:09  <luke-jr> IIRC I hit the bug only by some corner case
484 2020-12-03T19:16:12  <achow101> MarcoFalke: IMO yes. it's a pretty significant bug
485 2020-12-03T19:16:33  <MarcoFalke> achow101: Any suggestions who could review it?
486 2020-12-03T19:17:01  <achow101> meshcollider and ryanofsky at least
487 2020-12-03T19:17:02  *** adiabat <adiabat!~adiabat@63.209.32.102> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
488 2020-12-03T19:17:04  <wumpus> it's ony a change in one function, a very important one though
489 2020-12-03T19:17:33  <MarcoFalke> I checked that the function content is copied from master, that is easy to check
490 2020-12-03T19:17:39  <achow101> and anyone who reviewed the changes leading up to descriptor wallets
491 2020-12-03T19:18:30  <MarcoFalke> what is the worst thing that could happen? I guess a tx could come back unsigned?
492 2020-12-03T19:18:52  <achow101> yes
493 2020-12-03T19:20:05  *** vasild <vasild!~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
494 2020-12-03T19:20:11  <wumpus> the functional tests should catch that though
495 2020-12-03T19:20:47  <MarcoFalke> SignTransaction is marked const, so it shouldn't modify the spkm either
496 2020-12-03T19:21:08  <achow101> the bug was that a fully signed tx would come back as supposedly not complete, although nothing would change in that tx
497 2020-12-03T19:21:13  <MarcoFalke> Seems almost safe to merge as-is (famous last words?)
498 2020-12-03T19:21:43  <jonatack> nice simplification, surprising that no tests need to be updated if something was broken
499 2020-12-03T19:21:49  <achow101> given that 0.20 only has the LegacySPKM implemented, I think this could be trivially correct?
500 2020-12-03T19:22:23  <wumpus> jonatack: right seems there's no test for the fixed behavior
501 2020-12-03T19:22:52  <wumpus> in any case if it's 'trivially correct' I'd like to see some ACKs soon :)
502 2020-12-03T19:22:54  <jonatack> a description of what was broken/fixed in the PR or commit would be nice
503 2020-12-03T19:23:11  <achow101>  #17204 apparently tests this kind of accidentally
504 2020-12-03T19:23:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17204 | wallet: Do not turn OP_1NEGATE in scriptSig into 0x0181 in signing code (sipa) by meshcollider · Pull Request #17204 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
505 2020-12-03T19:24:17  <wumpus> would be worth a try then maybe
506 2020-12-03T19:24:46  <MarcoFalke> #action tag 0.19.2rc1 now , tag 0.20.2rc1 after 19740
507 2020-12-03T19:24:46  <core-meetingbot> ACTION: tag 0.19.2rc1 now , tag 0.20.2rc1 after 19740
508 2020-12-03T19:25:09  <MarcoFalke> ok, finally rc3
509 2020-12-03T19:25:15  <MarcoFalke> Anything missing for rc3?
510 2020-12-03T19:25:25  <jnewbery> is there definitely going to be an rc3?
511 2020-12-03T19:25:35  <sipa> short topic: can people read over https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/0.21.0-Release-Notes-Draft? i think a few things are missing
512 2020-12-03T19:25:36  <wumpus> do we have any serious issues reported for rc2 yet?
513 2020-12-03T19:25:58  <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/45
514 2020-12-03T19:26:09  <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: Yes, stuff has been merged, so there must be one
515 2020-12-03T19:26:23  <wumpus> did we merge stuff? oh
516 2020-12-03T19:26:26  <jonatack> achow101: you mean the test I added in 17204? That PR was a bit of a head-scratcher tbh
517 2020-12-03T19:26:48  <sipa> #20511: i think we should drop it for 0.21
518 2020-12-03T19:26:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20511 | anchors.dat doesnt support V2 addresses · Issue #20511 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
519 2020-12-03T19:27:03  <MarcoFalke> merged stuff: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/0.21
520 2020-12-03T19:27:09  <sipa> it's harder to fix than i initially imagined, and anchors.dat didn't exist at all so it's a new feature anyway
521 2020-12-03T19:27:10  <wumpus> did we have any regressions then?
522 2020-12-03T19:27:36  <sdaftuar> what's the status of sendaddrv2/bip155, there was a report that it caused other peers to disconnect us i think?
523 2020-12-03T19:27:44  <luke-jr> couldn't anchors.dat store all V2 then?
524 2020-12-03T19:27:48  <jnewbery> sipa: I removed #20511 from the milestone
525 2020-12-03T19:27:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20511 | anchors.dat doesnt support V2 addresses · Issue #20511 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
526 2020-12-03T19:28:52  <MarcoFalke> sdaftuar: Yes, the protocol version wasn't bumped, and some peers use the protocol version to determine which message types are "expected"
527 2020-12-03T19:28:55  <sipa> sdaftuar: you mean gating it based on protocol version?
528 2020-12-03T19:29:01  <sdaftuar> yes, that
529 2020-12-03T19:29:09  <jnewbery> If we're doing an rc3, then I think we should merge a change to only send sendaddrv2 to peers on v70016+
530 2020-12-03T19:29:16  <wumpus> my initial proposal was to increase the protocol version but this was almost universally hated
531 2020-12-03T19:29:16  <sipa> we did bump the version number anyway, right?
532 2020-12-03T19:29:31  <MarcoFalke> is 70016 the version of wtxidrelay?
533 2020-12-03T19:29:45  <jnewbery> and if we're doing that (which means changing the code and spec), then we should also move it to be done between version and verack like wtxidrelay
534 2020-12-03T19:29:47  <wumpus> everyone wanted some other mechanism
535 2020-12-03T19:29:49  <sipa> wumpus: this isn't about protocol version vs sendaddrv2; it's about using protocol version to know whether "sendaddrv2" is a legal message
536 2020-12-03T19:29:52  <wumpus> so where is it given problems?
537 2020-12-03T19:30:03  <sdaftuar> i think the feedback from maintainers of other software was a preference to bump the version numbers when we roll out new messages like this, since that is easy, i think we should
538 2020-12-03T19:30:09  <wumpus> we don't have *any* mechanism like that
539 2020-12-03T19:30:10  <jnewbery> wumpus: btcd drops the connection if it receives a sendaddrv2
540 2020-12-03T19:30:18  <wumpus> that's their problem
541 2020-12-03T19:30:20  <MarcoFalke> libbitcoin might, too
542 2020-12-03T19:30:27  <sipa> wumpus: i agree it's silly
543 2020-12-03T19:30:39  <wumpus> we've always ignored unknown messages
544 2020-12-03T19:30:51  <wumpus> and that's how it should be
545 2020-12-03T19:31:15  <wumpus> it was always the idea that new messages could be used as an extension mechanism
546 2020-12-03T19:31:21  <hebasto> ^^^ isn't this rule a part of ptotocol?
547 2020-12-03T19:31:27  <sipa> apparently historically new messages have always been accompagnied with a protocol bump; i'm kind of surprised by this, as it forces serialized coordination for adding new messages
548 2020-12-03T19:31:45  <wumpus> sipa: exactly
549 2020-12-03T19:31:50  <sipa> hebasto: "the protocol" will differ depending on who you ask
550 2020-12-03T19:31:54  <wumpus> it shouldn't be like that in a decentralized protocol
551 2020-12-03T19:32:06  <luke-jr> NACK bullying other implementations on the p2p protocol
552 2020-12-03T19:32:14  <wumpus> I'm pretty sure we've added messages before without increasing the version
553 2020-12-03T19:32:17  <luke-jr> though I agree it's a dumb idea to force protocol version increments like this
554 2020-12-03T19:32:26  <wumpus> "bullying" wtf
555 2020-12-03T19:32:29  <wumpus> come on
556 2020-12-03T19:32:44  <MarcoFalke> incrementing the protocol version number doesn't mean p2p dev is centralized
557 2020-12-03T19:32:45  <luke-jr> wumpus: causing them to disconnect when we could easily remain compatible?
558 2020-12-03T19:32:46  <sipa> i don't think this is bullying; it's a disagreement about what the protocol entails
559 2020-12-03T19:33:01  <wumpus> luke-jr: it was their choice to disconnect on a silly reason like that
560 2020-12-03T19:33:08  <sdaftuar> whatever we decide to do, i think the updated bip that describes what we do should be reposted to the mailing list
561 2020-12-03T19:33:09  <aj> btcd would stay connected to 0.20 and earlier nodes so won't drop off from the network entirely, no? is this that big a problem?
562 2020-12-03T19:33:13  <luke-jr> wumpus: this isn't their change
563 2020-12-03T19:33:23  <wumpus> in any case my first proposal for the BIP was to do it with a version bump
564 2020-12-03T19:33:34  <wumpus> but no one wanted it and now suddenly ...
565 2020-12-03T19:33:43  <jonasschnelli> Was/is there a reason to _not_ bump the protocol version for addr2?
566 2020-12-03T19:33:49  <wumpus> just because some other imnplementation does something weird
567 2020-12-03T19:33:54  <jonasschnelli> like it was done for sendheaders BIP 130
568 2020-12-03T19:33:55  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Yes, I think it wasn't clear that btcd and libbitcoin did that
569 2020-12-03T19:33:58  <wumpus> I honestly don't know
570 2020-12-03T19:34:04  <sipa> wumpus: oh, another minor point is that the bip and the implementation currently mismatch
571 2020-12-03T19:34:05  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: I just learned about that last week
572 2020-12-03T19:34:12  <wumpus> I'm not going to reconsider based on that anyway
573 2020-12-03T19:34:13  <sipa> wumpus: about a related thing
574 2020-12-03T19:34:47  <sipa> the bip says send sendaddrv2 after receiving verack, but the implementation sends it after sending verack
575 2020-12-03T19:34:59  <luke-jr> right now, the network is all talking fine; Core intentionally deploying a change that breaks it seems wrong
576 2020-12-03T19:35:01  <Victorsueca> ´causing them to disconnect when we could easily remain compatible?´ < The reverse could also be said, causing us to implement things in a specific way when they could easily ignore the messages?
577 2020-12-03T19:35:26  <wumpus> so they don't plan on implementing addrv2 at all?
578 2020-12-03T19:35:31  <wumpus> let's just drop it
579 2020-12-03T19:35:39  <sipa> wumpus: what?
580 2020-12-03T19:35:54  <sipa> they're just concerned because their _old_ versions can't talk to new core anymore
581 2020-12-03T19:36:05  <wumpus> sipa: Im ean if no one else wants to move forward on that
582 2020-12-03T19:36:23  <jonasschnelli> why not just bump the protocol version?
583 2020-12-03T19:36:26  <wumpus> or maybe don't send addrv2 to ipv4 and ipv6 nodes at all
584 2020-12-03T19:36:54  <wumpus> they don't care about the other networks
585 2020-12-03T19:37:06  <sdaftuar> i'm a bit confused. the only question is whether to send the "sendaddrv2" message on startup?
586 2020-12-03T19:37:09  <luke-jr> they might
587 2020-12-03T19:37:26  <MarcoFalke> I think for rc3 we should aim for a minimal fix (or no fix at all)
588 2020-12-03T19:37:31  <MarcoFalke> I liked jnewbery's suggestion
589 2020-12-03T19:37:45  <MarcoFalke> I suspect that can be implemented with a one-line patch
590 2020-12-03T19:37:46  <jnewbery> It's really just a very small fix, moving a few lines of code
591 2020-12-03T19:37:59  <jnewbery> and updating the BIP to match
592 2020-12-03T19:38:01  <wumpus> but addrv2 isn't bound to any protocol version
593 2020-12-03T19:38:03  <hebasto> but we bumper protocol version due to new wtxidrelay message
594 2020-12-03T19:38:06  <wumpus> it shouldn't be
595 2020-12-03T19:38:27  <hebasto> #18044
596 2020-12-03T19:38:29  <sipa> that part doesn't even need a bip change; we can just as courtesy decide to not send sendaddrv2 below a certain protocol version, because we know locally that things with lower protocol version don't support it anyway
597 2020-12-03T19:38:31  <wumpus> it's silly to do this now in a last minute rc chang
598 2020-12-03T19:38:35  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18044 | Use wtxid for transaction relay by sdaftuar · Pull Request #18044 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
599 2020-12-03T19:38:41  <sipa> wumpus: yeah...
600 2020-12-03T19:38:52  <jnewbery> wumpus: i'm confused. You said earlier you wanted it to be done with a version bump
601 2020-12-03T19:38:59  <wumpus> jnewbery: at the time, yes
602 2020-12-03T19:39:00  <luke-jr> anyone want to throw together a BIP saying the same protocol version bump also implies unknown messages are ignored? ;)
603 2020-12-03T19:39:05  <MarcoFalke> and the workaround can be removed later on
604 2020-12-03T19:39:13  <wumpus> then we spent months discussing it and no one else wanted it
605 2020-12-03T19:39:19  <sipa> luke-jr: good luck opening that can of worms again
606 2020-12-03T19:39:22  <luke-jr> though I suspect libbitcoin will disagree with that BIP
607 2020-12-03T19:39:25  <wumpus> because it was so much easier to do it without a version bump
608 2020-12-03T19:39:35  <jnewbery> wumpus: why is it easier?
609 2020-12-03T19:39:43  <sdaftuar> luke-jr: i proposed something similar recently, and then withdrew it after opposition on the mailing list
610 2020-12-03T19:39:49  <wumpus> because agreeing on a version bump is hard ESPECIALLY BETWEEN IMPLEMENTATIONS
611 2020-12-03T19:39:54  <luke-jr> sigh
612 2020-12-03T19:40:14  <wumpus> just adding an identification message allowed for a mechanism to extend the protocol without a central point of agreement !
613 2020-12-03T19:40:42  <wumpus> this doensn't bind it together with other protocol changes
614 2020-12-03T19:40:57  <sipa> wumpus: well, i fully agree
615 2020-12-03T19:41:02  <wumpus> so implemetnations can implement and relay v2 without implementing other protocol changes
616 2020-12-03T19:41:07  <wumpus> so many people told this to me
617 2020-12-03T19:41:14  <sipa> but isn't it reasonable to try to not break things on the existing network, regardless of who is at fault for it?
618 2020-12-03T19:41:40  <jonasschnelli> I agree. IMO it should be handled on the side of btcd/libbitcoin. Dropping on unknown messages makes backward compatibility just insanely hard.
619 2020-12-03T19:41:51  <wumpus> yes
620 2020-12-03T19:41:57  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: can't change deployed nodes
621 2020-12-03T19:42:04  <jonasschnelli> Sure you can
622 2020-12-03T19:42:06  <luke-jr> …
623 2020-12-03T19:42:10  <jonasschnelli> by upgrading
624 2020-12-03T19:42:10  <sipa> jonasschnelli: ?
625 2020-12-03T19:42:27  <jonasschnelli> I guess a fix send a wrong signal
626 2020-12-03T19:42:29  <aj> or by adding a compatability node in between
627 2020-12-03T19:42:30  <MarcoFalke> Maybe we shouldn't modify the bip, but add a temporary patch to be able to speak to non-upgraded nodes
628 2020-12-03T19:42:38  <sipa> i'm happy to reach out to btcd and tell them this is silly, and we don't think it makes sense to continue this... but in order not to break their existing nodes, we'll not send sendaddrv2 to older versions this one time
629 2020-12-03T19:42:53  <sipa> MarcoFalke: that's my suggestion
630 2020-12-03T19:43:24  <luke-jr> what about libbitcoin which fundamentally disagrees with us?
631 2020-12-03T19:43:36  <jonasschnelli> Probably an adequate trade-off. There is just the risk our codebase will have many workaround in the future to protect falling alternative implementations
632 2020-12-03T19:43:37  <sipa> i can't comprehend their stance
633 2020-12-03T19:43:44  <wumpus> as ssaid we don't need this for ipv4/ipv6 nodes
634 2020-12-03T19:43:46  <luke-jr> sipa: I suspect it's just disagreement for the sake of disagreement :/
635 2020-12-03T19:43:51  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: I think that can be hashed out on the mailing list
636 2020-12-03T19:44:02  <wumpus> maybe I made a mistake to try this at all
637 2020-12-03T19:44:02  <MarcoFalke> no need to block rc3 on resolving that discussion
638 2020-12-03T19:44:04  <sipa> wumpus: we do want torv3 addresses to relay across ipv4/ipv6 nodes
639 2020-12-03T19:44:12  <jonasschnelli> wumpus: no you didn't
640 2020-12-03T19:44:33  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: true
641 2020-12-03T19:44:33  <jonasschnelli> It's clearly a missimplementation
642 2020-12-03T19:44:43  <sipa> wumpus: indeed you don't- i think there are just misunderstandings about what the protocol entails
643 2020-12-03T19:44:53  <sipa> and it's unfortunate that this comes out now
644 2020-12-03T19:45:02  <wumpus> mostly sorry for vasild who did all the actual implementation work
645 2020-12-03T19:45:08  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: it's intentional, so not mis-
646 2020-12-03T19:45:11  <jonatack> is there a post on the btcd/libbitcoin position and plans? seems quite late
647 2020-12-03T19:45:16  <jonasschnelli> are they (btcd) dropping on any unknown message?
648 2020-12-03T19:45:46  <jonasschnelli> or to they just pin valid message to protocol versions?
649 2020-12-03T19:45:47  <wumpus> jonatack: yes, why does this come up last minute? between rcs?
650 2020-12-03T19:45:49  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: I think it was the right choice, and everyone agreed with you. the mismatch on the live network was just not anticipated back then.
651 2020-12-03T19:46:03  <sipa> wumpus: well that's when people test
652 2020-12-03T19:46:15  <sdaftuar> i am not sure an updated version of bip155 was ever sent to the mailing list describing that the version bump was being dropped. so it's hard to blame them, imo, other than for a long-running misunderstanding of how we think unknown messaegs should be treated
653 2020-12-03T19:46:41  <luke-jr> sdaftuar: we also have no authority to impose BIP155 on them anyway
654 2020-12-03T19:46:49  <sdaftuar> luke-jr: agreed
655 2020-12-03T19:46:50  <sipa> sdaftuar: i think the initial discussion was about version bump vs sendaddrv2 as the negotiation mechanism itself
656 2020-12-03T19:46:51  <MarcoFalke> (we still have one more topic, so we should slowly wrap up)
657 2020-12-03T19:46:58  <wumpus> they're free to not implement it, but disconnecting just doens't make sese
658 2020-12-03T19:47:13  <wumpus> there's no question of "authority" here
659 2020-12-03T19:47:19  <wumpus> they're preventing us from implementing new messages
660 2020-12-03T19:47:38  <wumpus> sipa: yes
661 2020-12-03T19:47:42  <luke-jr> well, preventing it from being implemented nicely anyway
662 2020-12-03T19:48:04  <sipa> wumpus: yes, agree, i believe that going forward using new messages is absolutely the right way, not tied to protocol version
663 2020-12-03T19:48:18  <wumpus> it's enforcing authority by denying the upgrade method of introducing new messages
664 2020-12-03T19:48:22  <sdaftuar> sipa: was that discussion on hte mailing list?
665 2020-12-03T19:48:39  <wumpus> because everyone needs to agree on new version numbers then
666 2020-12-03T19:48:51  <wumpus> and what messages come with them
667 2020-12-03T19:48:51  <sipa> wumpus: but it's kind of similar to "don't break userspace" in linux's philosophy... somehow someone ended up relying on something that wasn't guaranteed; we can be courteous and make sure it doesn't cause problems
668 2020-12-03T19:49:02  <wumpus> this is not accetpable for a protocol that is not centrally coordinated
669 2020-12-03T19:49:43  <sipa> https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd/issues/1661
670 2020-12-03T19:49:45  <jonasschnelli> same with the service bits (a bit more flexible)
671 2020-12-03T19:49:48  <wumpus> if there was some organization like IANA it'd be different
672 2020-12-03T19:50:01  <MarcoFalke> there is still the "central" BIP repo
673 2020-12-03T19:50:10  <sipa> looks like they were just completely unaware that ignoring unknown messages was the right thing to do, but are ok with ignoring unknown messages otherwise
674 2020-12-03T19:50:10  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
675 2020-12-03T19:50:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #20562: tests: Test that a fully signed tx given to signrawtx is unchanged (master...test-signraw-fullysigned) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20562
676 2020-12-03T19:50:11  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
677 2020-12-03T19:50:13  <luke-jr> IANA and BIPs aren't that different
678 2020-12-03T19:50:43  <luke-jr> sipa: that's just btcd though; IIRC, libbitcoin disagrees explicitly
679 2020-12-03T19:50:43  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: well, yes, but a lot of things get accepted as BIP, not only if they're really implemented
680 2020-12-03T19:51:01  <jonasschnelli> indeed.
681 2020-12-03T19:51:02  <MarcoFalke> as long as the bip process doesn't allow duplicate assignments, it shouldn't lead to issues
682 2020-12-03T19:51:09  <wumpus> I mean 'accepted as BIP' as in merged to the repository
683 2020-12-03T19:51:10  <jonasschnelli> Overlap of version numbers might happen quicky
684 2020-12-03T19:51:14  <wumpus> it only has to ofllow basic protocol for that
685 2020-12-03T19:51:14  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: well, it does even then
686 2020-12-03T19:51:26  <MarcoFalke> (not advocating for it, just saying it is possible)
687 2020-12-03T19:51:30  <wumpus> it's not a real selection process
688 2020-12-03T19:51:35  <luke-jr> if ver 100 defines X, and ver 101 defines Y, now everyone who wants Y needs X
689 2020-12-03T19:51:36  <wumpus> nor a central coordination
690 2020-12-03T19:51:58  <aj> luke-jr: needs X or needs to successfully ignore X
691 2020-12-03T19:52:00  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: it would be on top of the negotiation message type
692 2020-12-03T19:52:08  <luke-jr> aj: good point
693 2020-12-03T19:52:23  <jonasschnelli> define a protocol version where tolerating unknown message is a must?
694 2020-12-03T19:52:33  <sipa> jonasschnelli: that's what sdaftuar tried
695 2020-12-03T19:52:39  <wumpus> jonasschnelli: heh, use the reasoning against themselves
696 2020-12-03T19:52:40  <jonasschnelli> I see
697 2020-12-03T19:53:07  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: but they will reject the BIP defining it
698 2020-12-03T19:53:24  <wumpus> I'm pretty tired of this
699 2020-12-03T19:53:30  <jonasschnelli> well,.. then it should be their mess to clean up?
700 2020-12-03T19:53:30  <sipa> we don't need their consent to implement anything
701 2020-12-03T19:53:39  <sipa> but we can take discussion points into accoutn
702 2020-12-03T19:53:41  <sdaftuar> jonasschnelli: see thread starting here https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2020-August/018084.html
703 2020-12-03T19:54:02  <wumpus> could freeze the current P2P network and define a new one :)
704 2020-12-03T19:54:08  <sdaftuar> i think we should just decide what we want to do and let everyone know what that is
705 2020-12-03T19:54:12  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: that implies we have authority to impose this on them?
706 2020-12-03T19:54:14  * sipa points at BIP324
707 2020-12-03T19:54:23  <wumpus> with jonasschnelli 's encryption and stuff
708 2020-12-03T19:54:33  <luke-jr> oooh good idea
709 2020-12-03T19:54:34  <jonasschnelli> yes. That will be a nightmare
710 2020-12-03T19:54:38  <aj> luke-jr: can't impose anything on them, they can keep disconnecting if they think that's desirable
711 2020-12-03T19:54:39  <luke-jr> ?
712 2020-12-03T19:54:47  <luke-jr> jonasschnelli: make the ignoring unknown msgs part of it
713 2020-12-03T19:54:56  <wumpus> the old one will still work and it's entirely voluntary to implement it *shrug*
714 2020-12-03T19:55:01  <jonasschnelli> Its not even messages in BIP324,.. its the handshake that is headerless
715 2020-12-03T19:55:16  <aj> wumpus: bender meme, we'll make our own p2p with encryption and blow?
716 2020-12-03T19:55:20  <jonasschnelli> agree with sdaftuar
717 2020-12-03T19:55:39  <wumpus> I really don't want these kind of questions about authority, no one needs authority to do anything, that's not the point
718 2020-12-03T19:55:41  <wumpus> aj: yess
719 2020-12-03T19:55:57  <jonasschnelli> aj: heh. Yes.
720 2020-12-03T19:55:59  <aj> blackjack and encryption apparently
721 2020-12-03T19:56:08  <wumpus> and permissionlessness
722 2020-12-03T19:56:33  <luke-jr> wumpus: when existing nodes on the network stop working because of a change we make, it takes authority to say that the blame is on someone else..
723 2020-12-03T19:56:36  <aj> 4min left if we want to quickly discuss bitcoin-util
724 2020-12-03T19:56:50  <wumpus> #topic bitcoin-util (aj)
725 2020-12-03T19:56:51  <core-meetingbot> topic: bitcoin-util (aj)
726 2020-12-03T19:56:52  <MarcoFalke> #action bender meme, we'll make our own p2p with encryption and blow?
727 2020-12-03T19:56:52  <core-meetingbot> ACTION: bender meme, we'll make our own p2p with encryption and blow?
728 2020-12-03T19:56:52  <wumpus> aj: sorry
729 2020-12-03T19:56:57  <aj> #19937
730 2020-12-03T19:57:00  <jonasschnelli> BIP324 is probably different since we want to get disconnected when the handshake is not supported
731 2020-12-03T19:57:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19937 | signet mining utility by ajtowns · Pull Request #19937 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
732 2020-12-03T19:57:16  <MarcoFalke> aj: I still don't get why it needs a new way of parsing args
733 2020-12-03T19:57:40  <aj> signet mining has high enough difficulty that grinding in python doesn't work. but gridning needs libconsensus code so can't be stuck in bitcoin-cli without bloating it
734 2020-12-03T19:57:53  <MarcoFalke> this is just asking for an unmaintaible mess if new features are added
735 2020-12-03T19:58:13  <aj> bitcoin-util as a generic thing has been proposed in #14671 iirc for doing things like psbt without needing a running node
736 2020-12-03T19:58:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14671 | Utility to replace RPC calls that dont need wallet or chain context · Issue #14671 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
737 2020-12-03T19:58:15  <MarcoFalke> ACK on adding the utility in general
738 2020-12-03T19:58:20  <wumpus> python bindings for libconsensus
739 2020-12-03T19:58:26  <sipa> aj: any reason why it can't be an RPC?
740 2020-12-03T19:58:35  <MarcoFalke> sipa: I asked that too
741 2020-12-03T19:58:45  *** Victorsueca <Victorsueca!~Victorsue@unaffiliated/victorsueca> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
742 2020-12-03T19:58:45  <sipa> (i know it doesn't *need* to be an RPC, but in this specific case, is there a reason why that'd be problematic)
743 2020-12-03T19:59:04  <aj> sipa: 14671 talks about not adding RPCs for utility functions in general, and having a separate command for that
744 2020-12-03T19:59:23  <sipa> ok
745 2020-12-03T19:59:27  <sipa> That's fair
746 2020-12-03T19:59:44  <wumpus> I guess the drawback is adding yet another executable, which links in a lot of stuff, but if we have other plans for bitcoin-util apart from just the signet grinding it may be worth it
747 2020-12-03T19:59:54  <aj> sipa: could be, but would be a bit weird. no specific problem i thnk. making "generate" just work is a pain since signet signing needs a wallet
748 2020-12-03T20:00:01  <MarcoFalke> aj: If someone already has the server running, it might be faster to call the rpc instead of figuring out how to run the util
749 2020-12-03T20:00:19  <aj> wumpus suggested adding it to bitcoin-tx which works fine (it already links libconsensus), but is klunky
750 2020-12-03T20:00:34  <wumpus> it's too bad we already have bitcoin-tx with the same (in)dependency idea
751 2020-12-03T20:00:37  <wumpus> yes
752 2020-12-03T20:00:38  <andytoshi> in elements we had this issue with our signed blocks, we had to back out some of the separation between wallet and node
753 2020-12-03T20:00:44  <andytoshi> which i was not happy about
754 2020-12-03T20:00:49  <aj> might make sense to do it in bitcoin-tx now, and have a new PR later that adds bitcoin-util with multiple functionality bits (and better arg handling like MarcoFalke suggests)
755 2020-12-03T20:00:58  <andytoshi> and i wish we didn't have that RPC. fwiw.
756 2020-12-03T20:01:10  <sipa> andytoshi: that's useful information
757 2020-12-03T20:01:30  <wumpus> aj: I don't particularly need to have that intermediate state FWIW
758 2020-12-03T20:01:37  <wumpus> aj: if there are plans for bitcoin-util it's okay with me
759 2020-12-03T20:01:47  <andytoshi> esp as, in practice, the requirements for a blocksigner are different from the requirements for a generic wallet, so probably signers would want their own sepaarte software anyway. the RPC is mostly just good for testing
760 2020-12-03T20:01:48  <MarcoFalke> the private keys could be passed in to the grind command. *hides
761 2020-12-03T20:01:58  <wumpus> aj: and yes, it needs to use the same argument handling as our other binaries
762 2020-12-03T20:02:04  <sipa> aj: btw, why is the difficulty too high for python? you control the difficulty yourself, no?
763 2020-12-03T20:02:07  <luke-jr> separate repo that runs a temporary bitcoind, runs a RPC, and exits? :P
764 2020-12-03T20:02:15  <sipa> also have you tried pypy?
765 2020-12-03T20:02:25  <sipa> it tends to be several times faster for things like this
766 2020-12-03T20:02:39  <wumpus> we definitely don't want to use differnt argument handling between binaries
767 2020-12-03T20:02:44  <aj> sipa: min difficulty for signet is higher than original because the retarget calculations don't work right for particularly high targets
768 2020-12-03T20:02:52  <sipa> ha
769 2020-12-03T20:03:10  <aj> sipa: pypy is faster, but not crazy faster and it makes it more complicated to run
770 2020-12-03T20:04:01  <sipa> aj: what is the effective min difficulty?
771 2020-12-03T20:04:08  <wumpus> you can load libconsensus using ctypes
772 2020-12-03T20:04:12  <wumpus> *ducks*
773 2020-12-03T20:04:45  <luke-jr> if libconsensus works, the util should be a separate repo ;)
774 2020-12-03T20:05:20  <sipa> libconsensus doesn't do mining; you'd still be calling python->c++ for every individual hash attempt
775 2020-12-03T20:05:21  <wumpus> (ctypes works very well I've used it in the past for python bindings)
776 2020-12-03T20:05:33  <sipa> pretty sure that's going to be slower than the actual time spent hashing
777 2020-12-03T20:05:38  <wumpus> huh yes
778 2020-12-03T20:05:45  <MarcoFalke> *libbitcoinkernel
779 2020-12-03T20:05:48  <luke-jr> doesn't Python have its own hashing stuff?
780 2020-12-03T20:05:57  <aj> doesn't have double sha256
781 2020-12-03T20:06:01  <wumpus> yes, python has its own hashing stuff, but appearntly it's too slow
782 2020-12-03T20:06:17  <luke-jr> maybe just do it in C then?
783 2020-12-03T20:06:25  <luke-jr> libblkmaker has a straightforward example.c
784 2020-12-03T20:06:29  <luke-jr> that could be extended
785 2020-12-03T20:06:40  <wumpus> yes, loading shared libraries from python is straightforward
786 2020-12-03T20:07:32  <wumpus> ok, time to end the meeting I think
787 2020-12-03T20:07:40  <wumpus> #endmeeting
788 2020-12-03T20:07:40  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
789 2020-12-03T20:07:40  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Dec  3 20:07:40 2020 UTC.
790 2020-12-03T20:07:40  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-12-03-19.00.moin.txt
791 2020-12-03T20:07:57  <jonatack> bitcoin-util SGTM
792 2020-12-03T20:08:11  <achow101> re #19740, i've updated the description and added a specific test case
793 2020-12-03T20:08:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19740 | [0.20] wallet: Simplify and fix CWallet::SignTransaction by achow101 · Pull Request #19740 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
794 2020-12-03T20:08:14  <aj> so conclusion is stick with -util and fix up marcofalke's arg handling objections?
795 2020-12-03T20:08:15  <jonatack> sipa: thanks for the link to the btcd issue
796 2020-12-03T20:08:21  <luke-jr> example.c is 135 lines and mines a block from a GBT template
797 2020-12-03T20:08:21  <wumpus> even better, shared libraries have less call overhead than a separate process
798 2020-12-03T20:08:41  <sipa> aj: seems reasonable to me
799 2020-12-03T20:08:51  <aj> luke-jr: there's also the nbits to target and comparison against target stuff that arith_uint256 currently handles
800 2020-12-03T20:09:45  <luke-jr> aj: true
801 2020-12-03T20:09:53  <aj> wumpus: shared libraries seem like it'd be a super pita to make work for people running mac and windows?
802 2020-12-03T20:10:02  <wumpus> aj: why?
803 2020-12-03T20:10:11  <wumpus> aj: windows has dlls and mac simply has so's
804 2020-12-03T20:10:17  <aj> wumpus: everything seems like a pain for mac and windows? i don't know :)
805 2020-12-03T20:10:22  <luke-jr> dunno about mac, but it's even easier on Windows
806 2020-12-03T20:10:34  <luke-jr> Windows will prefer a DLL in your working directory ;)
807 2020-12-03T20:10:40  <wumpus> windows has a better shared library implementatin than POSIX imo *ducks*
808 2020-12-03T20:10:58  <MarcoFalke> #20483 is also tagged for 0.21.0
809 2020-12-03T20:11:00  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20483 | wallet: deprecate feeRate in fundrawtransaction/walletcreatefundedpsbt by jonatack · Pull Request #20483 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
810 2020-12-03T20:11:01  <luke-jr> wumpus: well, Windows has no way out of DLL hell system-wide
811 2020-12-03T20:11:11  <MarcoFalke> is  20483 needed?
812 2020-12-03T20:12:23  <jonatack> MarcoFalke: for 0.21 I agree with your review, it seems too late as the current plan is to not merge it until estimatefeerate/setfeerate in sat/vB
813 2020-12-03T20:12:49  <luke-jr> yeah, too late for 0.21 IMO
814 2020-12-03T20:12:57  <jonatack> based on the discussion in luke-jr's estimatesmartfee PR
815 2020-12-03T20:13:05  <jonatack> yeah
816 2020-12-03T20:13:13  <wumpus> luke-jr: I'm very much exagaratting, what I like about windows is their separation between link libraries (.lib) and the dlls themselves, the versioning stuff is much worse on windows
817 2020-12-03T20:14:25  <wumpus> jonatack: ok let's remove it then
818 2020-12-03T20:14:33  <MarcoFalke> ok, removed milestone on #20483
819 2020-12-03T20:14:35  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20483 | wallet: deprecate feeRate in fundrawtransaction/walletcreatefundedpsbt by jonatack · Pull Request #20483 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
820 2020-12-03T20:15:30  <wumpus> I think we should only tag regression fixes for 0.21 for now
821 2020-12-03T20:16:17  <MarcoFalke> So I guess #19362 will go away too?
822 2020-12-03T20:16:19  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19362 | rpc/blockchain: Reset scantxoutset progress before inferring descriptors by prusnak · Pull Request #19362 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
823 2020-12-03T20:17:48  <wumpus> I guess so, especially as there is still discussion in the PR what way to go
824 2020-12-03T20:18:20  <wumpus> it's fine for backport -- for 0.21.1
825 2020-12-03T20:19:56  <wumpus> I mean, not everything that could be backported to 0.21 needs to go in between rcs
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834 2020-12-03T21:34:11  <vasild> Is there any email post, chat message or anything from btcd or libbitcoin on sendaddrv2? I think is it ok to proceeed with 0.21 as it is now in current master because as mentioned above agreeing on a protocol version is indeed too centralized. What if there are 7 implementations and they never agree?
835 2020-12-03T21:34:55  <luke-jr> vasild: uh, as things are now, we have *disagreement*
836 2020-12-03T21:35:03  <vasild> The first response by somebody to https://github.com/btcsuite/btcd/issues/1661 is 19 days (!?) after the bug was opened
837 2020-12-03T21:35:43  <luke-jr> breaking the network and blaming others is even more centralised
838 2020-12-03T21:35:48  <luke-jr> vasild: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2020-August/018088.html
839 2020-12-03T21:36:23  <vasild> luke-jr: thanks, I will read and followup tomorrow
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841 2020-12-03T21:41:27  <wumpus> yes, breaking the network would be a bad thing
842 2020-12-03T21:43:11  <wumpus> i don't think torv3 support is more important than breaking the network, if push comes to shove they win
843 2020-12-03T21:46:31  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
844 2020-12-03T21:46:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #20563: build: Check that Homebrew's berkeley-db4 package is actually installed (master...201203-bdb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20563
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846 2020-12-03T21:47:02  <wumpus> do they have a proposal to support torv3? or is that just not important
847 2020-12-03T21:47:13  <luke-jr> wumpus: I think they just want the protocol number bumped
848 2020-12-03T21:47:45  <wumpus> I could see how it would be beneficial to some parties to break tor hidden service support
849 2020-12-03T21:48:10  <sipa> wumpus: the discussion there isn't about addrv2 at all, but in general (and started by the wtxid discussion)
850 2020-12-03T21:48:13  <wumpus> it wouldn't be so much of a hurry if v2 support wasn't deprecated
851 2020-12-03T21:49:36  <sipa> and in any case it's a minor thing - it's not like the entire network is suddenly going to run 0.21
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853 2020-12-03T21:49:53  <wumpus> sipa: so essentailly this means that clients before that version (and implement *all* its features) could never support torv3 relaying
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855 2020-12-03T21:50:42  <sipa> wumpus: well the last few years at least all new features have used a combination of protocol version bump that triggers a "sendFEATURE" message
856 2020-12-03T21:50:44  <wumpus> which means they can't support tor hidden services at all anymore in short time
857 2020-12-03T21:50:46  <wumpus> period
858 2020-12-03T21:50:47  <luke-jr> wumpus: from my understanding, libbitcoin's vision is that every new feature bumps the version number *and* negotiates availability
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860 2020-12-03T21:51:17  <sipa> wumpus: so really all that a version bump does is "sendaddrv2 and addrv2 now exist" - if they're not negotiated they'll still not be used
861 2020-12-03T21:51:24  <wumpus> it was already short while and I'm very disappointed people try to sabotage this
862 2020-12-03T21:51:29  <luke-jr> so you could support the latest version number by simply ignoring the negotiation of everything
863 2020-12-03T21:51:39  <sipa> wumpus: there are two separate discussions here
864 2020-12-03T21:51:45  <wumpus> just send version number 9999999
865 2020-12-03T21:51:48  <sipa> wumpus: the libbitcoin one, which was related to wtxid relay
866 2020-12-03T21:51:49  <luke-jr> XD
867 2020-12-03T21:52:01  <wumpus> deprecate protocol version numbers
868 2020-12-03T21:52:07  <sipa> and now the btcd disconnecting when sendaddrv2 is sent
869 2020-12-03T21:52:09  <sipa> wumpus: yes, agree
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871 2020-12-03T21:52:35  <sipa> i don't think it's constructive to call this sabotage
872 2020-12-03T21:52:56  <wumpus> well no one else came up with a solution to this even with so little time left
873 2020-12-03T21:53:19  <sipa> what do you mean? there is a solution, it works, it's tested, and it'll be in the next release
874 2020-12-03T21:53:26  <luke-jr> ?
875 2020-12-03T21:53:49  <wumpus> sipa: if it's up to me, yes
876 2020-12-03T21:54:07  <sipa> oh i assumed "solution to this" was about addrv2 itself; not about protocol negotiation
877 2020-12-03T21:55:29  <sipa> my suggestion is to just only send sendaddrv2 to clients with protocol version>=70016, as i believe that'll just work with no practical downsides
878 2020-12-03T21:55:58  <sipa> and tell btcd people that it's in their own interest to not keep expecting such bumps going forward, as a single version number for negotiation things just doesn't work
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880 2020-12-03T21:56:16  <sipa> i don't know what to do about libbitcoin - it seems we just fundamentally disagree about what the protocol is there
881 2020-12-03T21:57:17  <luke-jr> as long as we ensure they can't continue their silliness into BIP324, at least it has an end date?
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883 2020-12-03T21:58:39  <luke-jr> (we can just add new features only within the context of BIP324)
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889 2020-12-03T22:26:12  <wumpus> luke-jr: I just had the idea we could recycle the alert message, it allows arbirary content, right, and as long as the signature doesn't check out old clients won't interpret it as an actual alert
890 2020-12-03T22:27:58  <sipa> haha
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893 2020-12-03T22:56:52  <luke-jr> wumpus: O.o
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895 2020-12-03T22:57:07  <luke-jr> eh, IMO not worth it
896 2020-12-03T22:57:23  <luke-jr> easier to just gratuitously bump the protocol version number for everything
897 2020-12-03T22:57:30  <luke-jr> until we switch to BIP324
898 2020-12-03T22:59:31  <wumpus> I'm not seriously considering it, but if people want silly I can do silly very well :)
899 2020-12-03T23:00:57  <luke-jr> :p
900 2020-12-03T23:00:59  <wumpus> it's always possible to find a away to shuttle data over some protocol
901 2020-12-03T23:01:13  <wumpus> and impossible to block all such vectors
902 2020-12-03T23:03:05  <wumpus> one thing I had never imagined was having to do this for the bitcoin P2P protocol, I mean usually it's about trying to smuggle bitcoin P2P data like blocks and transactions over some other layer
903 2020-12-03T23:04:05  <wumpus> but in any case, no, they can't block permissionless extensibility
904 2020-12-03T23:04:23  <wumpus> there are sneaky ways to negotiate :p
905 2020-12-03T23:06:05  <wumpus> maybe one day we have the entire protocol running over the alert message
906 2020-12-03T23:06:13  <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20564
907 2020-12-03T23:06:35  <jonatack> curious, the PR didn't appear here
908 2020-12-03T23:06:50  <wumpus> weird is the bot broken
909 2020-12-03T23:06:51  <sipa> indeed
910 2020-12-03T23:10:02  <wumpus> Connecting to chat.freenode.net:6697 with nick bitcoin-git and channels: #bitcoin-commits,#bitcoin-core-dev: There was a problem sending messages to IRC: timed out
911 2020-12-03T23:10:56  <wumpus> eh hopefully it's a temporary problem
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913 2020-12-03T23:12:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #20476: contrib: Add test for ELF symbol-check (master...2020_11_test_symbol_check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20476
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915 2020-12-03T23:13:01  <wumpus> seems so
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917 2020-12-03T23:13:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj reopened pull request #20476: contrib: Add test for ELF symbol-check (master...2020_11_test_symbol_check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20476
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