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 11 2021-02-08T00:54:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6c6140846f37...1815847103c2
 12 2021-02-08T00:54:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4ed064d lisa neigut: docs: correctly identify script type
 13 2021-02-08T00:54:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1815847 fanquake: Merge #21105: docs: correctly identify script type
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 16 2021-02-08T00:55:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21105: docs: correctly identify script type (master...nifty/spelling-nit) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21105
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 32 2021-02-08T02:25:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1815847103c2...cf26ca3911f3
 33 2021-02-08T02:25:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5e0cd25 Bruno Garcia: fix the unreachable code at feature_taproot
 34 2021-02-08T02:25:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cf26ca3 fanquake: Merge #21081: test: fix the unreachable code at feature_taproot
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 37 2021-02-08T02:25:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21081: test: fix the unreachable code at feature_taproot (master...taproot-test-return) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21081
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 39 2021-02-08T02:26:36  <fanquake> sipa: did you want to go ahead and regenerate that test data ?
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 45 2021-02-08T02:50:08  <sipa> fanquake: at some point if nobody beats me to it :)
 46 2021-02-08T02:50:12  <sipa> remind me in a week or so
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 63 2021-02-08T05:33:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #21107: test: remove type: comments in favour of actual annotations (master...just_use_typing_directly) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21107
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 67 2021-02-08T05:46:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cf26ca3911f3...8636288db130
 68 2021-02-08T05:46:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e9189a7 fanquake: build: more robustly check for fcf-protection support
 69 2021-02-08T05:46:02  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8636288 fanquake: Merge #20720: build: more robustly check for fcf-protection support
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 72 2021-02-08T05:46:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20720: build: more robustly check for fcf-protection support (master...more_robust_fcf_protection) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20720
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 83 2021-02-08T08:18:13  <shesek> what would you estimate to be a 'reasonable' upper bound for the time it should take bitcoind to shutdown cleanly?
 84 2021-02-08T08:18:19  <shesek> say, with a large dbcache and lots of flushing to do; or on something without much memory/ram like a raspberry
 85 2021-02-08T08:19:34  <sipa> i wouldn't be surprised if can find pathological situations (huge dbcache, slow spinning disk connected over USB2) where it takes an hour
 86 2021-02-08T08:21:18  <sipa> that's a very rough guess though, haven't really soon anything like that; several minutes i've seen
 87 2021-02-08T08:21:57  <shesek> I've personally seen 15-20 minutes, when I shutdown right after finishing IBD
 88 2021-02-08T08:22:52  <shesek> I'm configuring an init system to forcibly kill bitcoind if exiting takes too long, was thinking to give it like 30 minutes but an hour works too
 89 2021-02-08T08:23:36  <sipa> probably better to actually try rather than rely on my vague guess :)
 90 2021-02-08T08:24:19  <shesek> its a (yet another) easy node setup thing, I can't tell what specs users are going to run this on so kinda hard to have a good estimate for this
 91 2021-02-08T08:25:07  <shesek> its also a really edge-casey thing, I might never run into a long shutdown when I try
 92 2021-02-08T08:25:13  <sipa> "look man, i'm really offended that you discriminate against full nodes running on fridges"
 93 2021-02-08T08:27:13  <shesek> :)
 94 2021-02-08T08:27:15  * fanquake can't wait for bitcoind on a toaster
 95 2021-02-08T08:27:23  <shesek> what about startup? how long would you give `bitcoin-cli -rpcwait` to try before realizing its not going to happen?
 96 2021-02-08T08:28:03  <shesek> would be useful if bitcoin-cli had a timeout argument btw. I'm using the `timeout` program as a workaround
 97 2021-02-08T08:28:07  <sipa> if on the same kind of system, you crash during a very slow flush right after IBD, i think it may take even longer
 98 2021-02-08T08:28:51  <sipa> -rpcclienttimeout ?
 99 2021-02-08T08:29:17  <shesek> oh, I didn't realize this worked with -rpcwait
100 2021-02-08T08:29:48  <shesek> isn't this the timeout for HTTP requests, while -rpcwait will be waiting without doing an http request while bitcoind is warming up?
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102 2021-02-08T08:30:01  <sipa> i don't know
103 2021-02-08T08:30:50  <shesek> what does rpcwait do exactly? waits for the cookie file to appear?
104 2021-02-08T08:33:22  <fanquake> it tries to construct a request, and if an exception is thrown, it waits
105 2021-02-08T08:49:27  <shesek> what is the worse that can happen if I use someone else's datadir (a la prunednode.today)?
106 2021-02-08T08:49:30  <shesek> obviously I can be led to follow an invalid chain and accept non-existing coins. but will bitcoind be internally consistent? could I inspect its state via the RPC and have any assurances of what I see? say, if I check that the hash of the tip and the utxo set matches a trusted source, should this give me confidence that the datadir is valid?
107 2021-02-08T08:49:33  <shesek> I guess there's also some potential for things like buffer overflows that might escalate into code execution, but probably not very likely?
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109 2021-02-08T08:51:38  <sipa> shesek: if the data is entirely untrusted, i wouldn't vouch for lack of buffer overflows etc
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111 2021-02-08T08:54:37  <shesek> and other than things like buffer overflow?
112 2021-02-08T08:55:38  <shesek> to what extend do the sanity checks that bitcoind performs on startup give me assurance against inconsistent state?
113 2021-02-08T08:58:04  <sipa> you really shouldn't work with untrusted local storage
114 2021-02-08T08:59:47  <shesek> well, I don't use these things myself, but some people do. btcpay has a fastsync-by-copying-the-datadir option, and prunednode.today is also gaining popularity, I think typically alongside specter
115 2021-02-08T08:59:59  <shesek> I'm trying to better understand the risk model this has
116 2021-02-08T09:00:45  <sipa> :(
117 2021-02-08T09:00:54  <sipa> tell them to not do that :(
118 2021-02-08T09:01:58  <sipa> i mean... if you're getting the software bundled from a particular source, then it doesn't matter that the rest of the data also comes from that source of course
119 2021-02-08T09:02:29  <shesek> not quite the same though, software is auditable by humans, a binary blob isn't
120 2021-02-08T09:02:58  <sipa> but it'd be a lot nicer if people would help out with getting assumeutxo to move forward instead of workarounds that introduce central points of trust
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123 2021-02-08T09:08:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8636288db130...e51f6c4dee3d
124 2021-02-08T09:08:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 32cbb06 Dan Benjamin: build: build fuzz tests by default.
125 2021-02-08T09:08:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e51f6c4 MarcoFalke: Merge #20936: build: build fuzz tests by default
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128 2021-02-08T09:09:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20936: build: build fuzz tests by default (master...build-fuzz-tests-by-default) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20936
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130 2021-02-08T09:13:22  <shesek> I agree, but these are not necessarily the same people... the btcpay devs are doing what they can within constraints to make full nodes more accessible
131 2021-02-08T09:13:28  <shesek> its a tricky thing though. introducing more accessible middlegrounds - be it SPV validation, assumevalid, assumeutxo, client-side block filtering, datadir snapshot fastsync, whatever - can win you some people that would otherwise use worse entirely centralized solutions, but on the flip side can also encourage people who would otherwise have a fully-verified full node to be lazy and go for the easier middleground
132 2021-02-08T09:13:39  <shesek> its really hard to say if introducing a middleground option is going to do more good or more harm
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135 2021-02-08T09:32:29  <wumpus> luke-jr: anything wrong with https://github.com/bitcoinknots/gitian.sigs/pull/15 ?
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137 2021-02-08T09:40:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e51f6c4dee3d...c969ab43c388
138 2021-02-08T09:40:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0d39b58 Bruno Garcia: test: fix timeout decrease in feature_assumevalid
139 2021-02-08T09:40:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c969ab4 MarcoFalke: Merge #21084: test: fix timeout decrease in feature_assumevalid
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142 2021-02-08T09:40:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21084: test: fix timeout decrease in feature_assumevalid (master...fix-timeout-assumevalid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21084
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146 2021-02-08T09:43:57  <shesek> I'm contemplating whether I should support datadir-snapshot-based fastsync in my easy node setup thing (a bundle of bitcoind, bwt electrum server and a few other programs). I'm fairly certain that it would get more people to use it, people that would otherwise be using public electrum servers. a node initiated from someone else's datadir would be a step up for them, as unideal as it is >.<
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148 2021-02-08T09:46:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c969ab43c388...ca85449f22cb
149 2021-02-08T09:46:02  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5baff2b fanquake: build: use focal in gitian descriptors
150 2021-02-08T09:46:03  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2ecaf21 fanquake: gitian: remove execstack workaround for ricv64 & powerpc64le
151 2021-02-08T09:46:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ca85449 MarcoFalke: Merge #21036: gitian: Bump descriptors to Focal for 22.0
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154 2021-02-08T09:46:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21036: gitian: Bump descriptors to Focal for 22.0 (master...gitian_bump_22_0) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21036
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157 2021-02-08T09:46:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #21110: util: remove Boost posix_time usage from GetTime* (master...no_boost_gettime) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21110
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159 2021-02-08T09:47:06  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: #21036 wasn't deterministic yet
160 2021-02-08T09:47:08  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21036 | gitian: Bump descriptors to Focal for 22.0 by fanquake · Pull Request #21036 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
161 2021-02-08T09:48:02  <wumpus> not sure if that needs to be a requirement for merge but i guess it's important to doing releases
162 2021-02-08T09:48:22  <fanquake> wumpus: I'll be following up
163 2021-02-08T09:48:54  <wumpus> shesek: technically, copying someone elses's data directory is much more efficient, the whole, social, difficulty is chosing the 'someone else' is this case
164 2021-02-08T09:51:29  <wumpus> shesek: these kind of proposals are as old as bitcoin itself but i don't think anyone ever solved the 'who to trust' issue, how can you have infrastructure that gives you a reasonable confidence in that a certain validation is correct, like you can probably just copy a friend's node and trust them but yo udefinitely don't want to YOLO it off the internet
165 2021-02-08T09:53:05  <wumpus> in any case jamesob 's "assumevalid" work provides the technical infrastructure to handle this case better
166 2021-02-08T09:55:03  <wumpus> fanquake: thanks, does it still make sense for me to upload the differing binaries?
167 2021-02-08T09:55:43  <fanquake> wumpus: sure, if it's not too hard. I'll do some comparisons
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170 2021-02-08T09:58:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ca85449f22cb...b401b093556f
171 2021-02-08T09:58:18  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9913419 fanquake: test: remove type: comments in favour of actual annotations
172 2021-02-08T09:58:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b401b09 MarcoFalke: Merge #21107: test: remove type: comments in favour of actual annotations
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175 2021-02-08T09:58:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21107: test: remove type: comments in favour of actual annotations (master...just_use_typing_directly) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21107
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182 2021-02-08T10:21:49  <wumpus> fanquake: it's trivial (just need to re-do some runs because the result has been overwritten, well anyway a good test for local determinsism) but was distracted by FOSDEM this weekend
183 2021-02-08T10:22:46  <sipa> how was it?
184 2021-02-08T10:22:49  <sipa> (fosdem)
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189 2021-02-08T10:29:18  <wumpus> interesting! highlights for me were RISC-V/secure architectures (CheriBSD was interesting, a POSIX veriant using pointer capabilities for memory safety throughout), overlay networks and P2P (point of note for me was "yggdrasil" which is inspired by CJDNS but does some things differently), open source CAD tools, and update about openwifi (open software/hardware wifi)
190 2021-02-08T10:32:37  <wumpus> also something about standards, proposed architectures for libre Trusted Execution Environments / key storage modules, anyhow i live-tooted a few things on my mastodon https://x0f.org/@orionwl might be a few interesting links
191 2021-02-08T10:35:47  <sipa> wumpus: did you ever attend fosdem in person?
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193 2021-02-08T10:36:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] parazyd opened pull request #21111: Improve OpenRC initscript (master...openrc-init-improve) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21111
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195 2021-02-08T10:37:20  <wumpus> sipa: no haven't
196 2021-02-08T10:37:51  <wumpus> plenty of times i intended to go but didn't or couldn't for reasons i guess it's off the table now
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199 2021-02-08T10:39:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #21112: ci: use Focal for macOS and Win cross builds (master...actually_use_focal_in_cirrus_ci) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21112
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201 2021-02-08T10:42:07  <sipa> wumpus: i did, but it's been a long time
202 2021-02-08T10:42:31  <sipa> 2005 mayve
203 2021-02-08T10:43:29  <sipa> it's kind of underwhelming, but exactly what you expect from a free (as in beer) event organized by foss people :)
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206 2021-02-08T10:49:39  <emzy> Will there be recordigs from FOSDEM? I missed most of Sunday.
207 2021-02-08T10:53:03  <wumpus> sipa: heh, that's also the idea i get from it, but i kind of like the ad-hoc ness, really aimed at fostering discussion and cooperation instead of 'here, this is my work, bye' that was mostly my impression from academic conferences
208 2021-02-08T10:53:52  <wumpus> emzy: yes the videos will be posted soon(TM)
209 2021-02-08T10:54:14  <wumpus> emzy: will be https://video.fosdem.org/2021/
210 2021-02-08T10:54:49  <emzy> wumpus: cool, tnx.
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241 2021-02-08T12:08:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] domob1812 opened pull request #21114: Deduplicate some block-to-JSON code (master...getblock-dedup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21114
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264 2021-02-08T13:12:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21115: test: Fix Windows cross build (master...210208-win) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21115
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314 2021-02-08T13:41:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21116: build: Disable --disable-fuzz-binary for gitian builds (master...210208-fuzz) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21116
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332 2021-02-08T13:56:16  *** da39a3ee5e6b4b0d <da39a3ee5e6b4b0d!~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:8dc5:2885:a349:760f:ef8c> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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334 2021-02-08T14:09:53  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: #21036 was deterministic
335 2021-02-08T14:09:55  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21036 | gitian: Bump descriptors to Focal for 22.0 by fanquake · Pull Request #21036 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
336 2021-02-08T14:10:05  <MarcoFalke> I checked that your hashes matched the ones of drahtbot
337 2021-02-08T14:10:20  <MarcoFalke> and fanquake's matched the  ones of hebasto
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346 2021-02-08T14:38:57  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21117: test: remove assert_blockchain_height (master...2102-testNoTimeout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21117
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367 2021-02-08T15:47:53  <luke-jr> wumpus: for some reason GitHub didn't tell me about it, merged thanks
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369 2021-02-08T15:54:47  <MarcoFalke> Oh, it is the GitHub 500 time again
370 2021-02-08T15:56:43  *** da39a3ee5e6b4b0d <da39a3ee5e6b4b0d!~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:8dc5:2885:a349:760f:ef8c> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
371 2021-02-08T15:58:25  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: strange! I thought I saw mismatches (as noted in my post), but must have looked wrong then
372 2021-02-08T15:59:52  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Oh, maybe you are right. I didn't check *all* hashes, only a few
373 2021-02-08T16:02:19  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Is this an issue with the bump or a pre-exisiting one?
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377 2021-02-08T16:12:52  <wumpus> MarcoFalke: I have never noticed it before
378 2021-02-08T16:14:15  <wumpus> lol i was about to upload my results somewhere but have just wiped my gitian VM again because it seemed unnecessary now that they were deterministic
379 2021-02-08T16:21:10  <wumpus> *starts another build*
380 2021-02-08T16:21:31  <wumpus> no cache either this time
381 2021-02-08T16:28:23  <MarcoFalke> It seems intermittently non-deterministic. I wonder if it is also non-deterministic on the same machine
382 2021-02-08T16:33:22  <wumpus> the strangest thing for me was that some of the files matched but others didn't (even for the same OS), my impression was that especially tars were affected not zips, but that might be a by-effect
383 2021-02-08T16:43:37  <dongcarl> Haven't been following, but is there a non-determinism problem?
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386 2021-02-08T16:47:46  <MarcoFalke> dongcarl: Yeah, at least starting with #21036
387 2021-02-08T16:47:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21036 | gitian: Bump descriptors to Focal for 22.0 by fanquake · Pull Request #21036 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
388 2021-02-08T16:48:05  <MarcoFalke> (currently unclear if this happened earlier)
389 2021-02-08T16:48:16  <MarcoFalke> diffoscope might tell
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429 2021-02-08T18:53:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] amitiuttarwar opened pull request #21121: [test] Small unit test improvements, including helper to make mempool transaction (master...2021-01-unit-test-valid-tx) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21121
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436 2021-02-08T19:38:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b401b093556f...b09ad737eef6
437 2021-02-08T19:38:31  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa36206 MarcoFalke: rpc: Return total fee in mempool
438 2021-02-08T19:38:32  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b09ad73 MarcoFalke: Merge #20944: rpc: Return total fee in getmempoolinfo
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444 2021-02-08T20:41:33  <sipa> j
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472 2021-02-08T22:04:22  <wumpus> looks like i can at least fully reproduce the hashes here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21036#issuecomment-774522683  so it seems deterministic locally
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477 2021-02-08T22:13:02  <wumpus> uploaded the four mismatching files here: https://download.visucore.com/tmp/mismatch-3ec37a517285.tar.gz  (@fanquake)
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