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52021-03-12T00:36:24 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21419: build: Improve depends/funcs.mk (master...210311-mk) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21419
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152021-03-12T01:44:49 <luke-jr> fanquake_: is -O0 actually needed for the -fstack-clash-protection check?
162021-03-12T01:48:52 <fanquake> luke-jr iirc yes. why?
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182021-03-12T01:49:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21420: build, qt: No longer need to patch translation.pro (master...210311-mk-qt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21420
192021-03-12T01:49:52 <luke-jr> fanquake: -O0 is incompatible with spectre mitigations, so creates issues when I try to build >_<
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212021-03-12T01:50:06 <luke-jr> (on x86 anyway)
222021-03-12T01:50:40 <sipa> fanquake: i can't find any indication for that
232021-03-12T01:52:02 <fanquake> From what I remember it was required to trigger the failure. I'll re-check. There might also be an argument to just skip that check entirely for windows, and drop the -O0
242021-03-12T01:57:17 <luke-jr> fanquake: what if we change it to return (int)(intptr_t)&d;
252021-03-12T01:57:30 <luke-jr> that way optimisations can't just remove `d`
262021-03-12T01:59:09 <fanquake> I just retested and it certainly only happens with -O0
272021-03-12T01:59:10 <fanquake> https://gist.github.com/fanquake/74ee6c895c090ab8eb4d8a8efe1bf50e
282021-03-12T02:00:10 <fanquake> There are newer comments on https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=90458 arguing that it could just be skipped for Windows, which we could do.
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302021-03-12T02:15:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #21419: build: Improve depends/funcs.mk (master...210311-mk) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21419
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372021-03-12T02:33:53 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #21421: build: don't try and use -fstack-clash-protection on Windows (master...skip_stack_clash_windows) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21421
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412021-03-12T02:59:11 <fanquake> wumpus / sipa: might have to block chewy917
422021-03-12T02:59:53 <sipa> too late, already done
432021-03-12T03:01:02 <luke-jr> XD
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682021-03-12T05:11:45 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b972913c330a...a13a8cd8e317
692021-03-12T05:11:45 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ebde946 Amiti Uttarwar: [doc] Improve comment about protected peers
702021-03-12T05:11:45 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a13a8cd fanquake: Merge #21394: [doc] Improve comment about protected peers
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732021-03-12T05:12:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21394: [doc] Improve comment about protected peers (master...2021-03-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21394
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922021-03-12T07:35:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a13a8cd8e317...e0bc27a14ceb
932021-03-12T07:35:43 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3ba2840 fanquake: scripted-diff: remove MakeUnique<T>()
942021-03-12T07:35:45 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1a6323b fanquake: doc: update developer notes for removal of MakeUnique
952021-03-12T07:35:45 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e0bc27a MarcoFalke: Merge #21404: refactor: Remove MakeUnique<T>()
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992021-03-12T07:36:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21404: refactor: Remove MakeUnique<T>() (master...remove_makeunique) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21404
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1272021-03-12T10:32:16 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kiminuo opened pull request #21422: Add feerate histogram to getmempoolinfo (master...feature/2021-03-Feerate-histogram) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21422
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1392021-03-12T11:23:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21423: build: Cleanups and follow ups after bumping Qt to 5.12.10 (master...210312-qt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21423
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1472021-03-12T11:46:13 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #21424: Net processing: Tidy up CNodeState ctor (master...2021-03-cnodestate-ctor-tidy) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21424
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1522021-03-12T11:55:03 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21425: refactor: Pass PeerManagerImpl members only once (master...2103-refactorMember) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21425
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1822021-03-12T13:29:00 <michaelfolkson> Added a StackExchange question on DrahtBot, interesting discussion. Thanks MarcoFalke jeremyrubin etc https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/103501/what-is-drahtbot-on-bitcoin-core-pull-requests/
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1852021-03-12T13:31:00 <michaelfolkson> Feel free to suggest improvements on the answer here or in the comments on SE
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1892021-03-12T13:44:19 <michaelfolkson> I don't think there is a solution to this but direction on likely merge order would be helpful for reviewers I think. Can't be automated though. Would need maintainers to say what order PRs are likely to be merged in
1902021-03-12T13:45:01 <michaelfolkson> Or direction from maintainers on when a PR is close to being merged before it is actually merged
1912021-03-12T13:45:24 <michaelfolkson> Occasionally happens in the Core dev meeting I've seen
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1952021-03-12T13:56:03 <Kiminuo> sipsorcery, Hi, should this https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/build_msvc/common.qt.init.vcxproj#L5 line be bumped too now that the bump to Qt 5.12.10 was done?
1962021-03-12T13:56:27 <Kiminuo> I have noticed that https://github.com/sipsorcery/qt_win_binary/releases/tag/v1.7 contains a build for 5.12.x version. It looks pretty close but it's a bit older.
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1992021-03-12T14:01:26 <sipsorcery> Kiminuo: the msvc build against Qt5.12.6 did work once IIRC. But last time I looked at it (prob > 6 months ago) the build failed.
2002021-03-12T14:02:12 <Kiminuo> sipsorcery, I'm building against it now. We will see :)
2012021-03-12T14:02:51 <sipsorcery> If Bitcoin Core's Qt dep has been officially bumped to 5.12.10 new Qt + msvc binaries will need to be built.
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2052021-03-12T14:08:19 <Kiminuo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21376
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2092021-03-12T14:32:36 <sipsorcery> thx, didn't spot that.
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2422021-03-12T16:57:39 <bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto opened pull request #246: Revert "qt: Use "fusion" style on macOS Big Sur with old Qt" (master...210312-revert) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/246
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2672021-03-12T19:10:47 <achow101> oh, wallet meeting?
2682021-03-12T19:10:56 <jonatack> hi
2692021-03-12T19:10:57 <achow101> #startmeeting
2702021-03-12T19:10:57 <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Mar 12 19:10:57 2021 UTC. The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
2712021-03-12T19:10:58 <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
2722021-03-12T19:11:34 <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag
2732021-03-12T19:11:34 <achow101> provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
2742021-03-12T19:11:47 <achow101> any topics?
2752021-03-12T19:12:41 <sipa> oh hi
2762021-03-12T19:13:13 <achow101> so we have taproot descriptors now, right?
2772021-03-12T19:13:28 *** az0re <az0re!~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
2782021-03-12T19:13:30 <sipa> kind of
2792021-03-12T19:13:47 <sipa> maybe it's worth a discussion what they should look like (including some features the current PR doesn't have)
2802021-03-12T19:13:53 <achow101> well at least single key things
2812021-03-12T19:14:04 <sipa> but perhaps that should include sanket1729, andytoshi, and other people working with descriptors
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2832021-03-12T19:14:22 <achow101> yes, that seems like a discussion that involves other people who are not here
2842021-03-12T19:14:44 <achow101> perhaps we should talk about the addresstype stuff?
2852021-03-12T19:14:51 <sipa> ok!
2862021-03-12T19:15:01 <achow101> #topic addresstypes for taproot (and future)
2872021-03-12T19:15:02 <core-meetingbot> topic: addresstypes for taproot (and future)
2882021-03-12T19:15:32 <meshcollider> hi (sorry I'm late)
2892021-03-12T19:15:49 <achow101> There was a discussion about what we should do for address types for taproot in #20861: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20861#discussion_r592054623
2902021-03-12T19:15:52 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20861 | BIP 350: Implement Bech32m and use it for v1+ segwit addresses by sipa · Pull Request #20861 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2922021-03-12T19:16:05 <achow101> which seems like something we should discuss in this meeting
2932021-03-12T19:16:12 <sipa> i think the discussion is actually kind of out of scope for 20861 itself
2942021-03-12T19:16:18 <achow101> agree
2952021-03-12T19:16:59 <achow101> from that discussion, sipa is in favor of adding bech32m, while I think we should move to naming the types by what they do
2962021-03-12T19:17:15 <sipa> it's more relevant for #21365, and probably even more when we'd think about supporting it by default
2972021-03-12T19:17:17 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21365 | Basic Taproot signing support for descriptor wallets by sipa · Pull Request #21365 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2982021-03-12T19:17:53 <achow101> yes
2992021-03-12T19:18:10 <sipa> achow101: imagine a successor to taproot appears, does it make sense for a wallet user to select on a *per-payment-request* basis between wit v1 and wit v2?
3002021-03-12T19:18:39 <sipa> i guess it may be a bit of a expert vs beginner usage question
3012021-03-12T19:18:53 <achow101> sipa: I would expect no
3022021-03-12T19:19:08 <sipa> because exposing it that way kind of forces people to know and care about the distinction
3032021-03-12T19:19:29 <sipa> it's of course a far future question, and maybe the debate is just silly to have at this point
3042021-03-12T19:19:30 <achow101> but I think that it makes sense to expect a user to want to stay with v1 until v2 is more mature
3052021-03-12T19:20:13 <sipa> absolutely, but i'd expect the wallet to expose a way to select between base58/bech32/bech32m addresses perhaps... and until some time bech32m wallets would just not without manual intervention have any witv2 descriptors
3062021-03-12T19:21:21 <sipa> same with taproot, you just wouldn't be able to get a taproot descriptor in your wallet without manual intervention until it's well activated, and then it'd get integrated in wallet creation/upgrade UIs
3072021-03-12T19:21:36 <Murch> mh. so, is this only about what name the v1 output addresses should be filed under in Bitcoin Cor}?
3082021-03-12T19:22:18 <sipa> the name, but also what things it should distinguish between
3092021-03-12T19:22:21 <Murch> I'd rather call them P2TR in that case than "bech32m" since the latter is just how the address is formatted
3102021-03-12T19:22:50 <Murch> Or would you expect that not to be distinct from v2+
3112021-03-12T19:22:52 <Murch> ?
3122021-03-12T19:22:53 <sipa> Murch: my point is that on a per address basis, what you care is *what does the sender support*
3132021-03-12T19:23:04 <achow101> sipa: so then creation would have an option to create only v1 if that is what the user wanted? and then we need some way to add a v2 later that isn't super difficult to use (like importdescriptors kind of is)
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3152021-03-12T19:23:27 <achow101> but I guess a general upgrade path that adds descriptors for each witness version will be required anyways
3162021-03-12T19:23:28 <Murch> sipa: Yes, so it's important that you can generate an older type of address
3172021-03-12T19:23:29 <sipa> and if the sender supports bech32m, it should be up to your wallet (and its configuration) to decide whether to give a witv1 or witv2 address if a bech32m one is requested
3182021-03-12T19:23:57 <achow101> Murch: bech32m (should) apply to all future witness versions too
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3202021-03-12T19:24:05 <Murch> achow101: yes
3212021-03-12T19:24:15 <Murch> sipa: But the receiver picks the address, not the sender
3222021-03-12T19:24:37 <Murch> so it's not like the sender will say "bech32m please" without the receiver intepreting that
3232021-03-12T19:24:38 <sipa> Murch: yes, but the receiver shouldn't care about witv1 vs witv2 on a per-receive-address basis
3242021-03-12T19:25:03 <sipa> if his wallet supports fancy witv2, he'd give a witv2
3252021-03-12T19:25:07 <sipa> if not, a witv1
3262021-03-12T19:25:13 <Murch> how do you know that, when we don't know what native segwit v2 will encompass? ;)
3272021-03-12T19:25:49 <sipa> my point is that non-expert senders and receivers shouldn't need to care about witness versions or taproot or whatever or not
3282021-03-12T19:25:59 <sipa> they only care about what address format they both understand
3292021-03-12T19:26:11 <Murch> And I disagree! ;)
3302021-03-12T19:26:58 <sipa> to be clear: i'm not saying there shouldn't be a way to decide between witv1 and witv2
3312021-03-12T19:27:07 <Murch> The sender is more concerned about compatibility, but the recipient may be more interested in picking the script among the compatible options
3322021-03-12T19:27:11 <sipa> but that's part of the wallet definition, not something you want per address basis
3332021-03-12T19:27:34 <Murch> oh, I guess that might have been a misunderstanding on my end
3342021-03-12T19:27:48 <sipa> if you have a witv2 wallet, it'll give a witv2 address if you request bech32m
3352021-03-12T19:27:58 <sipa> if you have a witv1 wallet, it'll give a witv1 address if you request bech32m
3362021-03-12T19:28:18 <Murch> but given what we saw with bech32 v0 vs v1+, do you actually expect wallets to be compatible with new segwit versions out of the box?
3372021-03-12T19:28:31 <sipa> i think what we decide here may influence that :)
3382021-03-12T19:28:46 <achow101> I hope that they will be now since the issue was brought to light
3392021-03-12T19:29:20 <sipa> if people start thinking about bc1p addresses as "taproot addresses", perhaps that'll not work as well as when people just think about them as bech32m addresses (that can do any future thing)
3402021-03-12T19:29:32 <Murch> okay, just to clarify, we're talking about the parameter that one would use to pick the address type when generating a new address, right?
3412021-03-12T19:29:39 <achow101> yes
3422021-03-12T19:30:02 <sipa> Murch: really the question is: how do we internally classify the descriptors
3432021-03-12T19:30:15 <Murch> right
3442021-03-12T19:30:24 <achow101> thinking on this further, I don't really have a strong argument for the per-version address type in a descriptor wallet
3452021-03-12T19:30:55 <sipa> and if that category is "BECH32M", that'd presumably mean in a witv1/witv2 world, you couldn't have a wallet that has a way to produce both witv1 and witv2 payment addresses
3462021-03-12T19:30:56 <Murch> So, your proposition is to not distinguish them at the address generation request level so that people may be forced to properly implement bech32m support?
3472021-03-12T19:30:58 <achow101> however in HWI, it makes sense since we are handling keys there, not descriptors. And the per-version address type makes sense in the keys model (like the legacy wallet and hardware wallets)
3482021-03-12T19:32:20 <achow101> Murch: not necessarily force but rather that there isn't any reason to choose between v1 or v2 at a per-payment-request level
3492021-03-12T19:32:21 <sipa> achow101: i guess what i want to avoid is that all wallets by default end up having 14 descriptors loaded just because they need to support p2pkh, and p2wpkh, and p2sh-p2wpkh, and p2tr, and p2witv2, and p2witv3, ...
3502021-03-12T19:32:35 <Murch> achow101: Yeah, that's a good point. Or when you try to recover an old wallet, you want to be able to specify the version to not necessarily be the latest
3512021-03-12T19:32:45 <achow101> sipa: 14 descriptors is better than 2000 keys :p
3522021-03-12T19:33:00 <sipa> achow101: what about 14 descriptors each pre-expanded to 1000 keys?
3532021-03-12T19:33:17 <achow101> that could be a problem
3542021-03-12T19:33:44 <jonatack> was afk...so IIUC the getnewaddress "address_type" options would be: "legacy", "p2sh-segwit", "bech32", "bech32m"
3552021-03-12T19:33:54 <sipa> vaguely relatedly, and maybe less long-term: i think we can merge the legacy and p2sh-segwit output types
3562021-03-12T19:34:06 <sipa> every sender supports both p2pkh and p2sh
3572021-03-12T19:34:13 <achow101> sipa: they still make sense for legacy wallets
3582021-03-12T19:34:21 <achow101> maybe we can merge them when those go away
3592021-03-12T19:35:07 <sipa> achow101: i guess that would imply for a legacy wallet that its future payment address cannot be p2pkh anymore
3602021-03-12T19:35:13 <Murch> I still feel like I don't fully understand the problem. We want to make sure that people implement bech32m forward-compatibly, so that they actually can send to all upcoming versions of native segwit outputs, but what is gained by artificially blurring the lines between them rather than having decent wallet logic to do either?
3612021-03-12T19:35:48 <achow101> sipa: there are some p2pkh holdouts
3622021-03-12T19:35:54 <Murch> heh.
3632021-03-12T19:36:04 <sipa> Murch: to me it's the other way around
3642021-03-12T19:36:05 <Murch> 47% of all outputs are still p2pkh.
3652021-03-12T19:36:38 <sipa> we've artifically introduced a distinction in the address-request logic that should be wallet logic, between p2sh-segwit and other p2sh
3662021-03-12T19:36:58 <sipa> and i hope we don't continue that
3672021-03-12T19:37:04 <Murch> I see
3682021-03-12T19:37:17 <achow101> sipa: I think that distinction is necessary in a wallet that operates on keys rather than descriptors
3692021-03-12T19:37:30 <Murch> But I guess my issue is that there are at least two different ways requests for addresses come to pass
3702021-03-12T19:38:01 <sipa> achow101: i think only for political reasons that we wanted to give people the option of not using segwit without explicitly opting in
3712021-03-12T19:38:07 <Murch> One: Sender tells receiver what address formats they speak, and receiver picks their preferred address from that set
3722021-03-12T19:38:20 <sipa> not an indefensible choice, but kind of a pity in retrospect
3732021-03-12T19:38:26 <Murch> two: Receiver wants to generate one specific type of address
3742021-03-12T19:39:12 <sipa> why would they want that?
3752021-03-12T19:39:20 <sipa> (on a per address basis)
3762021-03-12T19:39:21 <achow101> sipa: I disagree. For segwit and taproot, when HWI gets a key, it doesn't know which addresstype to turn the key into
3772021-03-12T19:39:47 <sipa> achow101: sure, that needs metadata
3782021-03-12T19:39:54 <sipa> could be a descriptor itself
3792021-03-12T19:40:02 <Murch> E.g. to recover a Taproot descriptor after everyone has moved on to a segwit v2 default
3802021-03-12T19:40:19 <sipa> yes, use the descriptor if you need to be explicit
3812021-03-12T19:40:34 <Murch> Oh, so there is another way to be specific.
3822021-03-12T19:40:50 <sipa> i think you're both talking about something that's a very different layer
3832021-03-12T19:41:01 <Murch> It does feel like that ^^
3842021-03-12T19:41:04 <sipa> this is purely about the question "what does a wallet configuration look like?"
3852021-03-12T19:41:27 <sipa> is it a map from {legacy,p2sh-segwit,segwit,taproot,witv2} to descriptors
3862021-03-12T19:41:40 <sipa> or is it a map from {base58,bech32,bech32m} to descriptors
3872021-03-12T19:42:03 <Murch> Yeah, but those two feel sort of orthogonal to me.
3882021-03-12T19:42:08 <sipa> if you want a wallet that generates p2pkh addresses (and have the expertise to understand what that means)... construct a wallet with a p2pkh descriptor
3892021-03-12T19:42:18 <Murch> okay
3902021-03-12T19:42:44 <achow101> so if you want a wallet that generates v1 addresses for the bech32m type, make a wallet that only has a v1 descriptor
3912021-03-12T19:42:50 <sipa> yes
3922021-03-12T19:43:38 <achow101> ok, that is reasonable to me. ACK on OutputType::BECH32M
3932021-03-12T19:43:44 <sipa> based on your reactions i feel like i'm turning this into a storm in a cup of water
3942021-03-12T19:43:51 <Murch> I'm kinda confused, because the receiver doesn't usually control what the sender can send to. So the receiver usually needs to be able to downgrade to enable the sender to pay them.
3952021-03-12T19:43:52 <sipa> (is that an idion in english?)
3962021-03-12T19:44:17 <achow101> sipa: I have never heard of that ideom
3972021-03-12T19:44:18 <sipa> Murch: one wallet can have simultaneously descriptors for base58, bech32, and bech32m
3982021-03-12T19:44:26 <Murch> right
3992021-03-12T19:44:27 <jonatack> in a teacup
4002021-03-12T19:44:28 <meshcollider> sipa: maybe storm in a teacup :)
4012021-03-12T19:44:58 <achow101> Murch: I think this whole discussion is predicated on wallets properly supporting future witness versions in bech32m
4022021-03-12T19:44:59 <sipa> and at address generation time you pick from those three (or even just the subset that is available; if you don't have a bech32m descriptor active, you can't generate an address for it)
4032021-03-12T19:45:30 <Murch> yeah
4042021-03-12T19:45:43 <sipa> i'd hate to see wallets that are forced to have descriptors of a dozen types just because or API needs a way to generate one for every possible constructions
4052021-03-12T19:46:01 <Murch> okay, I think I'm starting to get it.
4062021-03-12T19:46:11 <sipa> achow101: right, agree - and if that fails, we may need to add yet another output type to distinguish
4072021-03-12T19:46:21 <sipa> but doing so IMO should be predicated on sender's abilities
4082021-03-12T19:46:22 <achow101> sipa: well for users who use the same wallet and just keep upgrading them, eventually they'll have a descriptor for ever supported witness version :)
4092021-03-12T19:46:45 <sipa> we shouldn't turn every new descriptor into a new wallet type
4102021-03-12T19:47:06 <sipa> achow101: perhaps yes, that's fair
4112021-03-12T19:47:34 <sipa> jonatack, meshcollider: thanks, indeed!
4122021-03-12T19:47:44 <achow101> ok, any thing else to discuss?
4132021-03-12T19:47:50 <sipa> (in dutch we have the equivalent but in a glass of water)
4142021-03-12T19:47:51 <Murch> achow101: In a way, if Bitcoin Core handles it in a way that doesn't let users explicitly choose, it may become a driver for the sending side to interpret not being to send as a bug
4152021-03-12T19:48:09 <meshcollider> I'm in favour of the base58/bech32/bech32m optioning after this discussion
4162021-03-12T19:48:22 <achow101> I have one more topic related to descriptors
4172021-03-12T19:48:26 <Murch> alternatively, people will complain that Bitcoin Core's new wallets are incompatible, and they go back to using v0
4182021-03-12T19:48:40 <sipa> Murch: that's what descriptors are for
4192021-03-12T19:48:48 <sipa> they let you exactly configure what you want
4202021-03-12T19:48:58 <achow101> What do we do about combo() with taproot and future single key things?
4212021-03-12T19:49:35 <achow101> Murch: I wonder if the current incompatibility is partially due to Core having that same behavior early on
4222021-03-12T19:49:59 <sipa> Murch: bitcoin core wallet files store the descriptor, and the only supported way to backup, is copying the wallet file (and perhaps in the future, dumping just the descriptors)... in both cases, there shouldn't ever be incompatibilities
4232021-03-12T19:50:27 <Murch> Not sure whether Bitcoin Core is used in enough transactions to have that sort of influence. Sometimes it feels that Bitcoin Core is more popular among hodlers. ;)
4242021-03-12T19:50:38 <Murch> Did your survey say something about that?
4252021-03-12T19:50:46 <sipa> if you try to "recover" a wallet from seed phrases or something like that without any metadata, that's bound to cause problems, but that's exactly a reason not to do that...
4262021-03-12T19:51:02 <Murch> Right
4272021-03-12T19:51:12 <achow101> Murch: I haven't looked at the data yet
4282021-03-12T19:51:48 <sipa> achow101: can you currently import a combo() descriptor?
4292021-03-12T19:51:51 <Murch> And if a wallet actually supports sending to v1 but doesn't support sending to v2, you could still fall back to v0, if you only have v2 instead of v1 addresses in your wallet config.
4302021-03-12T19:52:04 <achow101> sipa: combo can be imported as an inactive descriptor
4312021-03-12T19:52:17 <achow101> (i.e. not used for getnewaddress)
4322021-03-12T19:52:25 <sipa> right, makes sense
4332021-03-12T19:52:46 <sipa> i think we should see combo/addr/raw as kind of special top-level things, that aren't quite as supported as the rest
4342021-03-12T19:52:59 <sipa> and for future stuff only use 1-descriptor-one-sPK
4352021-03-12T19:53:09 <achow101> sipa: I guess the question is whether combo should make taproot single key spks
4362021-03-12T19:53:17 <sipa> i say no
4372021-03-12T19:53:23 <achow101> I'm inclined to say no, but we should document that
4382021-03-12T19:53:38 <sipa> it wouldn't be hard to add that, but i feel we shouldn't extend combo
4392021-03-12T19:54:14 <Murch> Okay, OutputType::BECH32M sounds reasonable
4402021-03-12T19:54:16 <sipa> its original purpose was migrating/mimicking legacy wallets
4412021-03-12T19:54:17 <achow101> I actually think we shouldn't have had combo, raw, or addr descriptors in the first place
4422021-03-12T19:54:31 <sipa> achow101: i tend to agree, in retrospect
4432021-03-12T19:55:13 <sipa> and legacy wallets hopefully never support taproot
4442021-03-12T19:55:39 <achow101> if taproot requires descriptor wallets, that will surely drive adoption of descriptor wallets :)
4452021-03-12T19:55:47 <sipa> :))))))))
4462021-03-12T19:55:58 <achow101> any other topics?
4472021-03-12T19:56:21 <sipa> dropping support for combo()/raw()/addr() ;)
4482021-03-12T19:56:25 <Murch> hah
4492021-03-12T19:56:43 <achow101> It probably wouldn't actually cause that much of a problem
4502021-03-12T19:56:44 <sipa> i can't imagine many things relying on it
4512021-03-12T19:57:04 <sipa> it's kind of neat that inferdescriptor always returns _something_, but it's also kind of pointless
4522021-03-12T19:57:04 <achow101> I might have to update my migratewallet branch but that's it
4532021-03-12T19:57:13 <Murch> P2PKH is actually down to 45% of the inputs and 43% of the outputs.
4542021-03-12T19:57:49 <achow101> sipa: yes raw(<spk i just entered>) is not particularly useful
4552021-03-12T19:58:35 <achow101> #endmeeting
4562021-03-12T19:58:36 <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
4572021-03-12T19:58:36 <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Mar 12 19:58:35 2021 UTC.
4582021-03-12T19:58:36 <core-meetingbot> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-03-12-19.10.moin.txt
4592021-03-12T19:58:44 <sipa> ah, addr does have a use: in e.g. scanutxoset you may want to be able to just specify an address to scan for
4602021-03-12T19:58:52 <sipa> if you know nothing more about it
4612021-03-12T19:59:12 <achow101> oh yeah
4622021-03-12T19:59:15 <sipa> that was the very first RPC we had that supported descriptors, and in that context it does make sense i think
4632021-03-12T19:59:28 <sipa> combo is perhaps also kind of useful there
4642021-03-12T19:59:54 <achow101> i suppose it doesn't hurt to keep them around
4652021-03-12T20:01:25 <sipa> we could add an IsFullDescriptor(), which is true for all but addr/combo/raw, and reject those that aren't in descriptor wallets etc
4662021-03-12T20:01:26 *** jonatack_ <jonatack_!~jon@37.170.97.88> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4672021-03-12T20:01:26 <jonatack_> help scantxoutset : "EXPERIMENTAL warning: this call may be removed or changed in future releases." -> is it still experimental?
4682021-03-12T20:01:42 <sipa> i think we can drop that
4692021-03-12T20:04:10 <jonatack_> ok
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4712021-03-12T20:13:33 <jonatack_> seems at least several years old indeed
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4732021-03-12T20:13:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #21426: rpc: remove scantxoutset EXPERIMENTAL warning (master...rm-scantxoutset-warning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21426
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4792021-03-12T20:56:23 <mfalg26csq> Short of reading the code, is there is tech description of how nodes choose between 2 competing chains? All I've seen is that the "longest" chain wins, but this seems succeptible to an 'alternate timeline' attack if the difficulties of the chain are ignored
4802021-03-12T20:56:48 <sipa> most work chain wins
4812021-03-12T20:56:56 <sipa> if there is a tie, the first-received tip wins
4822021-03-12T20:57:04 <mfalg26csq> Thank you, that's what I was hoping (that sum of difficulty of chains was used)
4832021-03-12T20:57:22 <sipa> the sum-of-difficulties is generally actually referred to as "work"
4842021-03-12T20:59:40 <mfalg26csq> Ok, so I just need to mine a block 2 with a perfect 0 hash, got it
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4862021-03-12T21:05:53 <achow101> what's the signet faucet to use?
4872021-03-12T21:06:36 <sipa> i've used https://signet.bc-2.jp/ before
4882021-03-12T21:06:46 <achow101> ok
4892021-03-12T21:07:13 <achow101> doesn't like taproot addresses :(
4902021-03-12T21:07:59 <sipa> yeah, no bech32m yet
4912021-03-12T21:09:27 <achow101> sipa: what happens if I open a wallet with a tr() descriptor (made using #21365) on master?
4922021-03-12T21:09:29 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21365 | Basic Taproot signing support for descriptor wallets by sipa · Pull Request #21365 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4932021-03-12T21:09:44 <sipa> achow101: it'll fail to start
4942021-03-12T21:09:50 <sipa> complaining about an invalid descriptor
4952021-03-12T21:09:59 <achow101> not an assert though, right?
4962021-03-12T21:10:04 <sipa> i don't think so
4972021-03-12T21:10:11 <achow101> ok
4982021-03-12T21:10:23 <achow101> at least we don't need more wallet flags
4992021-03-12T21:11:17 <sipa> 1/72057594037927936*(3*sqrt(273548757304312537) + 1591853137)^2 - 4775559411/36028797018963968*sqrt(273548757304312537) - 2497967612757776801/36028797018963968
5002021-03-12T21:11:20 <sipa> eh
5012021-03-12T21:11:21 <sipa> $ ./src/bitcoin-cli -signet loadwallet taptest
5022021-03-12T21:11:21 <sipa> error code: -1
5032021-03-12T21:11:21 <sipa> error message:
5042021-03-12T21:11:21 <sipa> map::at
5052021-03-12T21:11:42 <sipa> not very nice...
5062021-03-12T21:11:43 <achow101> very useful...
5072021-03-12T21:12:03 <sipa> 2021-03-12T21:10:55.497048Z [taptest] Invalid descriptor: tr(0250929b74c1a04954b78b4b6035e97a5e078a5a0f28ec96d547bfee9ace803ac0,0:pk(tpubD6NzVbkrYhZ4YbFiqpxK
5082021-03-12T21:12:06 <sipa> 8jXYwcoQvVqqYXHL6Bi5mh4LHH4xTHGcRC5oUxyTy2f2rw4cfwKtAHDMEb6iGGF6npyueD4CqZuDmnQRH1XGUAH)) is not a valid descriptor function: iostream error
5092021-03-12T21:12:09 <sipa> in debug log
5102021-03-12T21:12:46 <achow101> well at least it errored at the right spot
5112021-03-12T21:13:49 <achow101> sipa: InferDescriptor is not inferring taproot descriptors
5122021-03-12T21:13:59 <sipa> achow101: that's very much expected
5132021-03-12T21:14:00 <achow101> "desc": "addr(bcrt1prs7pxymu7jhsptzjlwlqnk8jyg5qmq4sdlc3rwcy7pd3ydz92xjqwvarla)#77fphkae",
5142021-03-12T21:14:02 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/77 | Automate Windows builds · Issue #77 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5152021-03-12T21:14:05 <achow101> oh
5162021-03-12T21:14:14 <sipa> TODO:
5172021-03-12T21:14:15 <sipa> * Inferring tr() descriptors from outputs (given sufficient information).
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5392021-03-12T22:41:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dongcarl opened pull request #21427: depends: Fix id_string invocations (master...2021-03-fix-build_id_construction) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21427
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