1 2021-03-12T00:04:26  *** Alex4 <Alex4!~Alex@> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
  2 2021-03-12T00:22:36  * fanquake pre-apologizes for the spam
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  5 2021-03-12T00:36:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21419: build: Improve depends/funcs.mk (master...210311-mk) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21419
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 15 2021-03-12T01:44:49  <luke-jr> fanquake_: is -O0 actually needed for the -fstack-clash-protection check?
 16 2021-03-12T01:48:52  <fanquake> luke-jr iirc yes. why?
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 18 2021-03-12T01:49:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21420: build, qt: No longer need to patch translation.pro (master...210311-mk-qt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21420
 19 2021-03-12T01:49:52  <luke-jr> fanquake: -O0 is incompatible with spectre mitigations, so creates issues when I try to build >_<
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 21 2021-03-12T01:50:06  <luke-jr> (on x86 anyway)
 22 2021-03-12T01:50:40  <sipa> fanquake: i can't find any indication for that
 23 2021-03-12T01:52:02  <fanquake> From what I remember it was required to trigger the failure. I'll re-check. There might also be  an argument to just  skip that check entirely for windows, and drop the -O0
 24 2021-03-12T01:57:17  <luke-jr> fanquake: what if we change it to return (int)(intptr_t)&d;
 25 2021-03-12T01:57:30  <luke-jr> that way optimisations can't just remove `d`
 26 2021-03-12T01:59:09  <fanquake> I just retested and  it certainly only happens with -O0
 27 2021-03-12T01:59:10  <fanquake> https://gist.github.com/fanquake/74ee6c895c090ab8eb4d8a8efe1bf50e
 28 2021-03-12T02:00:10  <fanquake> There are newer comments on https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=90458 arguing that it could just be skipped for Windows, which we could do.
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 30 2021-03-12T02:15:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #21419: build: Improve depends/funcs.mk (master...210311-mk) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21419
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 37 2021-03-12T02:33:53  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #21421: build: don't try and use -fstack-clash-protection on Windows (master...skip_stack_clash_windows) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21421
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 41 2021-03-12T02:59:11  <fanquake> wumpus / sipa: might have to block chewy917
 42 2021-03-12T02:59:53  <sipa> too late, already done
 43 2021-03-12T03:01:02  <luke-jr> XD
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 68 2021-03-12T05:11:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b972913c330a...a13a8cd8e317
 69 2021-03-12T05:11:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ebde946 Amiti Uttarwar: [doc] Improve comment about protected peers
 70 2021-03-12T05:11:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a13a8cd fanquake: Merge #21394: [doc] Improve comment about protected peers
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 73 2021-03-12T05:12:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21394: [doc] Improve comment about protected peers (master...2021-03-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21394
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 92 2021-03-12T07:35:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a13a8cd8e317...e0bc27a14ceb
 93 2021-03-12T07:35:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3ba2840 fanquake: scripted-diff: remove MakeUnique<T>()
 94 2021-03-12T07:35:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1a6323b fanquake: doc: update developer notes for removal of MakeUnique
 95 2021-03-12T07:35:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e0bc27a MarcoFalke: Merge #21404: refactor: Remove MakeUnique<T>()
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 99 2021-03-12T07:36:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21404: refactor: Remove MakeUnique<T>() (master...remove_makeunique) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21404
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127 2021-03-12T10:32:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kiminuo opened pull request #21422: Add feerate histogram to getmempoolinfo (master...feature/2021-03-Feerate-histogram) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21422
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139 2021-03-12T11:23:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21423: build: Cleanups and follow ups after bumping Qt to 5.12.10 (master...210312-qt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21423
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147 2021-03-12T11:46:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #21424: Net processing: Tidy up CNodeState ctor (master...2021-03-cnodestate-ctor-tidy) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21424
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152 2021-03-12T11:55:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21425: refactor: Pass PeerManagerImpl members only once (master...2103-refactorMember) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21425
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182 2021-03-12T13:29:00  <michaelfolkson> Added a StackExchange question on DrahtBot, interesting discussion. Thanks MarcoFalke jeremyrubin etc https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/103501/what-is-drahtbot-on-bitcoin-core-pull-requests/
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185 2021-03-12T13:31:00  <michaelfolkson> Feel free to suggest improvements on the answer here or in the comments on SE
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189 2021-03-12T13:44:19  <michaelfolkson> I don't think there is a solution to this but direction on likely merge order would be helpful for reviewers I think. Can't be automated though. Would need maintainers to say what order PRs are likely to be merged in
190 2021-03-12T13:45:01  <michaelfolkson> Or direction from maintainers on when a PR is close to being merged before it is actually merged
191 2021-03-12T13:45:24  <michaelfolkson> Occasionally happens in the Core dev meeting I've seen
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195 2021-03-12T13:56:03  <Kiminuo> sipsorcery, Hi, should this https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/build_msvc/common.qt.init.vcxproj#L5 line be bumped too now that the bump to Qt 5.12.10 was done?
196 2021-03-12T13:56:27  <Kiminuo> I have noticed that https://github.com/sipsorcery/qt_win_binary/releases/tag/v1.7 contains a build for 5.12.x version. It looks pretty close but it's a bit older.
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199 2021-03-12T14:01:26  <sipsorcery> Kiminuo: the msvc build against Qt5.12.6 did work once IIRC. But last time I looked at it (prob > 6 months ago) the build failed.
200 2021-03-12T14:02:12  <Kiminuo> sipsorcery, I'm building against it now. We will see :)
201 2021-03-12T14:02:51  <sipsorcery> If Bitcoin Core's Qt dep has been officially bumped to 5.12.10 new Qt + msvc binaries will need to be built.
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205 2021-03-12T14:08:19  <Kiminuo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21376
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209 2021-03-12T14:32:36  <sipsorcery> thx, didn't spot that.
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242 2021-03-12T16:57:39  <bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto opened pull request #246: Revert "qt: Use "fusion" style on macOS Big Sur with old Qt" (master...210312-revert) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/246
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267 2021-03-12T19:10:47  <achow101> oh, wallet meeting?
268 2021-03-12T19:10:56  <jonatack> hi
269 2021-03-12T19:10:57  <achow101> #startmeeting
270 2021-03-12T19:10:57  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Mar 12 19:10:57 2021 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
271 2021-03-12T19:10:58  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
272 2021-03-12T19:11:34  <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag
273 2021-03-12T19:11:34  <achow101> provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
274 2021-03-12T19:11:47  <achow101> any topics?
275 2021-03-12T19:12:41  <sipa> oh hi
276 2021-03-12T19:13:13  <achow101> so we have taproot descriptors now, right?
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278 2021-03-12T19:13:30  <sipa> kind of
279 2021-03-12T19:13:47  <sipa> maybe it's worth a discussion what they should look like (including some features the current PR doesn't have)
280 2021-03-12T19:13:53  <achow101> well at least single key things
281 2021-03-12T19:14:04  <sipa> but perhaps that should include sanket1729, andytoshi, and other people working with descriptors
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283 2021-03-12T19:14:22  <achow101> yes, that seems like a discussion that involves other people who are not here
284 2021-03-12T19:14:44  <achow101> perhaps we should talk about the addresstype stuff?
285 2021-03-12T19:14:51  <sipa> ok!
286 2021-03-12T19:15:01  <achow101> #topic addresstypes for taproot (and future)
287 2021-03-12T19:15:02  <core-meetingbot> topic: addresstypes for taproot (and future)
288 2021-03-12T19:15:32  <meshcollider> hi (sorry I'm late)
289 2021-03-12T19:15:49  <achow101> There was a discussion about what we should do for address types for taproot in #20861: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20861#discussion_r592054623
290 2021-03-12T19:15:52  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20861 | BIP 350: Implement Bech32m and use it for v1+ segwit addresses by sipa · Pull Request #20861 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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292 2021-03-12T19:16:05  <achow101> which seems like something we should discuss in this meeting
293 2021-03-12T19:16:12  <sipa> i think the discussion is actually kind of out of scope for 20861 itself
294 2021-03-12T19:16:18  <achow101> agree
295 2021-03-12T19:16:59  <achow101> from that discussion, sipa is in favor of adding bech32m, while I think we should move to naming the types by what they do
296 2021-03-12T19:17:15  <sipa> it's more relevant for #21365, and probably even more when we'd think about supporting it by default
297 2021-03-12T19:17:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21365 | Basic Taproot signing support for descriptor wallets by sipa · Pull Request #21365 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
298 2021-03-12T19:17:53  <achow101> yes
299 2021-03-12T19:18:10  <sipa> achow101: imagine a successor to taproot appears, does it make sense for a wallet user to select on a *per-payment-request* basis between wit v1 and wit v2?
300 2021-03-12T19:18:39  <sipa> i guess it may be a bit of a expert vs beginner usage question
301 2021-03-12T19:18:53  <achow101> sipa: I would expect no
302 2021-03-12T19:19:08  <sipa> because exposing it that way kind of forces people to know and care about the distinction
303 2021-03-12T19:19:29  <sipa> it's of course a far future question, and maybe the debate is just silly to have at this point
304 2021-03-12T19:19:30  <achow101> but I think that it makes sense to expect a user to want to stay with v1 until v2 is more mature
305 2021-03-12T19:20:13  <sipa> absolutely, but i'd expect the wallet to expose a way to select between base58/bech32/bech32m addresses perhaps... and until some time bech32m wallets would just not without manual intervention have any witv2 descriptors
306 2021-03-12T19:21:21  <sipa> same with taproot, you just wouldn't be able to get a taproot descriptor in your wallet without manual intervention until it's well activated, and then it'd get integrated in wallet creation/upgrade UIs
307 2021-03-12T19:21:36  <Murch> mh. so, is this only about what name the v1 output addresses should be filed under in Bitcoin Cor}?
308 2021-03-12T19:22:18  <sipa> the name, but also what things it should distinguish between
309 2021-03-12T19:22:21  <Murch> I'd rather call them P2TR in that case than "bech32m" since the latter is just how the address is formatted
310 2021-03-12T19:22:50  <Murch> Or would you expect that not to be distinct from v2+
311 2021-03-12T19:22:52  <Murch> ?
312 2021-03-12T19:22:53  <sipa> Murch: my point is that on a per address basis, what you care is *what does the sender support*
313 2021-03-12T19:23:04  <achow101> sipa: so then creation would have an option to create only v1 if that is what the user wanted? and then we need some way to add a v2 later that isn't super difficult to use (like importdescriptors kind of is)
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315 2021-03-12T19:23:27  <achow101> but I guess a general upgrade path that adds descriptors for each witness version will be required anyways
316 2021-03-12T19:23:28  <Murch> sipa: Yes, so it's important that you can generate an older type of address
317 2021-03-12T19:23:29  <sipa> and if the sender supports bech32m, it should be up to your wallet (and its configuration) to decide whether to give a witv1 or witv2 address if a bech32m one is requested
318 2021-03-12T19:23:57  <achow101> Murch: bech32m (should) apply to all future witness versions too
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320 2021-03-12T19:24:05  <Murch> achow101: yes
321 2021-03-12T19:24:15  <Murch> sipa: But the receiver picks the address, not the sender
322 2021-03-12T19:24:37  <Murch> so it's not like the sender will say "bech32m please" without the receiver intepreting that
323 2021-03-12T19:24:38  <sipa> Murch: yes, but the receiver shouldn't care about witv1 vs witv2 on a per-receive-address basis
324 2021-03-12T19:25:03  <sipa> if his wallet supports fancy witv2, he'd give a witv2
325 2021-03-12T19:25:07  <sipa> if not, a witv1
326 2021-03-12T19:25:13  <Murch> how do you know that, when we don't know what native segwit v2 will encompass? ;)
327 2021-03-12T19:25:49  <sipa> my point is that non-expert senders and receivers shouldn't need to care about witness versions or taproot or whatever or not
328 2021-03-12T19:25:59  <sipa> they only care about what address format they both understand
329 2021-03-12T19:26:11  <Murch> And I disagree! ;)
330 2021-03-12T19:26:58  <sipa> to be clear: i'm not saying there shouldn't be a way to decide between witv1 and witv2
331 2021-03-12T19:27:07  <Murch> The sender is more concerned about compatibility, but the recipient may be more interested in picking the script among the compatible options
332 2021-03-12T19:27:11  <sipa> but that's part of the wallet definition, not something you want per address basis
333 2021-03-12T19:27:34  <Murch> oh, I guess that might have been a misunderstanding on my end
334 2021-03-12T19:27:48  <sipa> if you have a witv2 wallet, it'll give a witv2 address if you request bech32m
335 2021-03-12T19:27:58  <sipa> if you have a witv1 wallet, it'll give a witv1 address if you request bech32m
336 2021-03-12T19:28:18  <Murch> but given what we saw with bech32 v0 vs v1+, do you actually expect wallets to be compatible with new segwit versions out of the box?
337 2021-03-12T19:28:31  <sipa> i think what we decide here may influence that :)
338 2021-03-12T19:28:46  <achow101> I hope that they will be now since the issue was brought to light
339 2021-03-12T19:29:20  <sipa> if people start thinking about bc1p addresses as "taproot addresses", perhaps that'll not work as well as when people just think about them as bech32m addresses (that can do any future thing)
340 2021-03-12T19:29:32  <Murch> okay, just to clarify, we're talking about the parameter that one would use to pick the address type when generating a new address, right?
341 2021-03-12T19:29:39  <achow101> yes
342 2021-03-12T19:30:02  <sipa> Murch: really the question is: how do we internally classify the descriptors
343 2021-03-12T19:30:15  <Murch> right
344 2021-03-12T19:30:24  <achow101> thinking on this further, I don't really have a strong argument for the per-version address type in a descriptor wallet
345 2021-03-12T19:30:55  <sipa> and if that category is "BECH32M", that'd presumably mean in a witv1/witv2 world, you couldn't have a wallet that has a way to produce both witv1 and witv2 payment addresses
346 2021-03-12T19:30:56  <Murch> So, your proposition is to not distinguish them at the address generation request level so that people may be forced to properly implement bech32m support?
347 2021-03-12T19:30:58  <achow101> however in HWI, it makes sense since we are handling keys there, not descriptors. And the per-version address type makes sense in the keys model (like the legacy wallet and hardware wallets)
348 2021-03-12T19:32:20  <achow101> Murch: not necessarily force but rather that there isn't any reason to choose between v1 or v2 at a per-payment-request level
349 2021-03-12T19:32:21  <sipa> achow101: i guess what i want to avoid is that all wallets by default end up having 14 descriptors loaded just because they need to support p2pkh, and p2wpkh, and p2sh-p2wpkh, and p2tr, and p2witv2, and p2witv3, ...
350 2021-03-12T19:32:35  <Murch> achow101: Yeah, that's a good point. Or when you try to recover an old wallet, you want to be able to specify the version to not necessarily be the latest
351 2021-03-12T19:32:45  <achow101> sipa: 14 descriptors is better than 2000 keys :p
352 2021-03-12T19:33:00  <sipa> achow101: what about 14 descriptors each pre-expanded to 1000 keys?
353 2021-03-12T19:33:17  <achow101> that could be a problem
354 2021-03-12T19:33:44  <jonatack> was afk...so IIUC the getnewaddress "address_type" options would be: "legacy", "p2sh-segwit", "bech32", "bech32m"
355 2021-03-12T19:33:54  <sipa> vaguely relatedly, and maybe less long-term: i think we can merge the legacy and p2sh-segwit output types
356 2021-03-12T19:34:06  <sipa> every sender supports both p2pkh and p2sh
357 2021-03-12T19:34:13  <achow101> sipa: they still make sense for legacy wallets
358 2021-03-12T19:34:21  <achow101> maybe we can merge them when those go away
359 2021-03-12T19:35:07  <sipa> achow101: i guess that would imply for a legacy wallet that its future payment address cannot be p2pkh anymore
360 2021-03-12T19:35:13  <Murch> I still feel like I don't fully understand the problem. We want to make sure that people implement bech32m forward-compatibly, so that they actually can send to all upcoming versions of native segwit outputs, but what is gained by artificially blurring the lines between them rather than having decent wallet logic to do either?
361 2021-03-12T19:35:48  <achow101> sipa: there are some p2pkh holdouts
362 2021-03-12T19:35:54  <Murch> heh.
363 2021-03-12T19:36:04  <sipa> Murch: to me it's the other way around
364 2021-03-12T19:36:05  <Murch> 47% of all outputs are still p2pkh.
365 2021-03-12T19:36:38  <sipa> we've artifically introduced a distinction in the address-request logic that should be wallet logic, between p2sh-segwit and other p2sh
366 2021-03-12T19:36:58  <sipa> and i hope we don't continue that
367 2021-03-12T19:37:04  <Murch> I see
368 2021-03-12T19:37:17  <achow101> sipa: I think that distinction is necessary in a wallet that operates on keys rather than descriptors
369 2021-03-12T19:37:30  <Murch> But I guess my issue is that there are at least two different ways requests for addresses come to pass
370 2021-03-12T19:38:01  <sipa> achow101: i think only for political reasons that we wanted to give people the option of not using segwit without explicitly opting in
371 2021-03-12T19:38:07  <Murch> One: Sender tells receiver what address formats they speak, and receiver picks their preferred address from that set
372 2021-03-12T19:38:20  <sipa> not an indefensible choice, but kind of a pity in retrospect
373 2021-03-12T19:38:26  <Murch> two: Receiver wants to generate one specific type of address
374 2021-03-12T19:39:12  <sipa> why would they want that?
375 2021-03-12T19:39:20  <sipa> (on a per address basis)
376 2021-03-12T19:39:21  <achow101> sipa: I disagree. For segwit and taproot, when HWI gets a key, it doesn't know which addresstype to turn the key into
377 2021-03-12T19:39:47  <sipa> achow101: sure, that needs metadata
378 2021-03-12T19:39:54  <sipa> could be a descriptor itself
379 2021-03-12T19:40:02  <Murch> E.g. to recover a Taproot descriptor after everyone has moved on to a segwit v2 default
380 2021-03-12T19:40:19  <sipa> yes, use the descriptor if you need to be explicit
381 2021-03-12T19:40:34  <Murch> Oh, so there is another way to be specific.
382 2021-03-12T19:40:50  <sipa> i think you're both talking about something that's a very different layer
383 2021-03-12T19:41:01  <Murch> It does feel like that ^^
384 2021-03-12T19:41:04  <sipa> this is purely about the question "what does a wallet configuration look like?"
385 2021-03-12T19:41:27  <sipa> is it a map from {legacy,p2sh-segwit,segwit,taproot,witv2} to descriptors
386 2021-03-12T19:41:40  <sipa> or is it a map from {base58,bech32,bech32m} to descriptors
387 2021-03-12T19:42:03  <Murch> Yeah, but those two feel sort of orthogonal to me.
388 2021-03-12T19:42:08  <sipa> if you want a wallet that generates p2pkh addresses (and have the expertise to understand what that means)... construct a wallet with a p2pkh descriptor
389 2021-03-12T19:42:18  <Murch> okay
390 2021-03-12T19:42:44  <achow101> so if you want a wallet that generates v1 addresses for the bech32m type, make a wallet that only has a v1 descriptor
391 2021-03-12T19:42:50  <sipa> yes
392 2021-03-12T19:43:38  <achow101> ok, that is reasonable to me. ACK on OutputType::BECH32M
393 2021-03-12T19:43:44  <sipa> based on your reactions i feel like i'm turning this into a storm in a cup of water
394 2021-03-12T19:43:51  <Murch> I'm kinda confused, because the receiver doesn't usually control what the sender can send to. So the receiver usually needs to be able to downgrade to enable the sender to pay them.
395 2021-03-12T19:43:52  <sipa> (is that an idion in english?)
396 2021-03-12T19:44:17  <achow101> sipa: I have never heard of that ideom
397 2021-03-12T19:44:18  <sipa> Murch: one wallet can have simultaneously descriptors for base58, bech32, and bech32m
398 2021-03-12T19:44:26  <Murch> right
399 2021-03-12T19:44:27  <jonatack> in a teacup
400 2021-03-12T19:44:28  <meshcollider> sipa: maybe storm in a teacup :)
401 2021-03-12T19:44:58  <achow101> Murch: I think this whole discussion is predicated on wallets properly supporting future witness versions in bech32m
402 2021-03-12T19:44:59  <sipa> and at address generation time you pick from those three (or even just the subset that is available; if you don't have a bech32m descriptor active, you can't generate an address for it)
403 2021-03-12T19:45:30  <Murch> yeah
404 2021-03-12T19:45:43  <sipa> i'd hate to see wallets that are forced to have descriptors of a dozen types just because or API needs a way to generate one for every possible constructions
405 2021-03-12T19:46:01  <Murch> okay, I think I'm starting to get it.
406 2021-03-12T19:46:11  <sipa> achow101: right, agree - and if that fails, we may need to add yet another output type to distinguish
407 2021-03-12T19:46:21  <sipa> but doing so IMO should be predicated on sender's abilities
408 2021-03-12T19:46:22  <achow101> sipa: well for users who use the same wallet and just keep upgrading them, eventually they'll have a descriptor for ever supported witness version :)
409 2021-03-12T19:46:45  <sipa> we shouldn't turn every new descriptor into a new wallet type
410 2021-03-12T19:47:06  <sipa> achow101: perhaps yes, that's fair
411 2021-03-12T19:47:34  <sipa> jonatack, meshcollider: thanks, indeed!
412 2021-03-12T19:47:44  <achow101> ok, any thing else to discuss?
413 2021-03-12T19:47:50  <sipa> (in dutch we have the equivalent but in a glass of water)
414 2021-03-12T19:47:51  <Murch> achow101: In a way, if Bitcoin Core handles it in a way that doesn't let users explicitly choose, it may become a driver for the sending side to interpret not being to send as a bug
415 2021-03-12T19:48:09  <meshcollider> I'm in favour of the base58/bech32/bech32m optioning after this discussion
416 2021-03-12T19:48:22  <achow101> I have one more topic related to descriptors
417 2021-03-12T19:48:26  <Murch> alternatively, people will complain that Bitcoin Core's new wallets are incompatible, and they go back to using v0
418 2021-03-12T19:48:40  <sipa> Murch: that's what descriptors are for
419 2021-03-12T19:48:48  <sipa> they let you exactly configure what you want
420 2021-03-12T19:48:58  <achow101> What do we do about combo() with taproot and future single key things?
421 2021-03-12T19:49:35  <achow101> Murch: I wonder if the current incompatibility is partially due to Core having that same behavior early on
422 2021-03-12T19:49:59  <sipa> Murch: bitcoin core wallet files store the descriptor, and the only supported way to backup, is copying the wallet file (and perhaps in the future, dumping just the descriptors)... in both cases, there shouldn't ever be incompatibilities
423 2021-03-12T19:50:27  <Murch> Not sure whether Bitcoin Core is used in enough transactions to have that sort of influence. Sometimes it feels that Bitcoin Core is more popular among hodlers. ;)
424 2021-03-12T19:50:38  <Murch> Did your survey say something about that?
425 2021-03-12T19:50:46  <sipa> if you try to "recover" a wallet from seed phrases or something like that without any metadata, that's bound to cause problems, but that's exactly a reason not to do that...
426 2021-03-12T19:51:02  <Murch> Right
427 2021-03-12T19:51:12  <achow101> Murch: I haven't looked at the data yet
428 2021-03-12T19:51:48  <sipa> achow101: can you currently import a combo() descriptor?
429 2021-03-12T19:51:51  <Murch> And if a wallet actually supports sending to v1 but doesn't support sending to v2, you could still fall back to v0, if you only have v2 instead of v1 addresses in your wallet config.
430 2021-03-12T19:52:04  <achow101> sipa: combo can be imported as an inactive descriptor
431 2021-03-12T19:52:17  <achow101> (i.e. not used for getnewaddress)
432 2021-03-12T19:52:25  <sipa> right, makes sense
433 2021-03-12T19:52:46  <sipa> i think we should see combo/addr/raw as kind of special top-level things, that aren't quite as supported as the rest
434 2021-03-12T19:52:59  <sipa> and for future stuff only use 1-descriptor-one-sPK
435 2021-03-12T19:53:09  <achow101> sipa: I guess the question is whether combo should make taproot single key spks
436 2021-03-12T19:53:17  <sipa> i say no
437 2021-03-12T19:53:23  <achow101> I'm inclined to say no, but we should document that
438 2021-03-12T19:53:38  <sipa> it wouldn't be hard to add that, but i feel we shouldn't extend combo
439 2021-03-12T19:54:14  <Murch> Okay, OutputType::BECH32M sounds reasonable
440 2021-03-12T19:54:16  <sipa> its original purpose was migrating/mimicking legacy wallets
441 2021-03-12T19:54:17  <achow101> I actually think we shouldn't have had combo, raw, or addr descriptors in the first place
442 2021-03-12T19:54:31  <sipa> achow101: i tend to agree, in retrospect
443 2021-03-12T19:55:13  <sipa> and legacy wallets hopefully never support taproot
444 2021-03-12T19:55:39  <achow101> if taproot requires descriptor wallets, that will surely drive adoption of descriptor wallets :)
445 2021-03-12T19:55:47  <sipa> :))))))))
446 2021-03-12T19:55:58  <achow101> any other topics?
447 2021-03-12T19:56:21  <sipa> dropping support for combo()/raw()/addr() ;)
448 2021-03-12T19:56:25  <Murch> hah
449 2021-03-12T19:56:43  <achow101> It probably wouldn't actually cause that much of a problem
450 2021-03-12T19:56:44  <sipa> i can't imagine many things relying on it
451 2021-03-12T19:57:04  <sipa> it's kind of neat that inferdescriptor always returns _something_, but it's also kind of pointless
452 2021-03-12T19:57:04  <achow101> I might have to update my migratewallet branch but that's it
453 2021-03-12T19:57:13  <Murch> P2PKH is actually down to 45% of the inputs and 43% of the outputs.
454 2021-03-12T19:57:49  <achow101> sipa: yes raw(<spk i just entered>) is not particularly useful
455 2021-03-12T19:58:35  <achow101> #endmeeting
456 2021-03-12T19:58:36  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
457 2021-03-12T19:58:36  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Mar 12 19:58:35 2021 UTC.
458 2021-03-12T19:58:36  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-03-12-19.10.moin.txt
459 2021-03-12T19:58:44  <sipa> ah, addr does have a use: in e.g. scanutxoset you may want to be able to just specify an address to scan for
460 2021-03-12T19:58:52  <sipa> if you know nothing more about it
461 2021-03-12T19:59:12  <achow101> oh yeah
462 2021-03-12T19:59:15  <sipa> that was the very first RPC we had that supported descriptors, and in that context it does make sense i think
463 2021-03-12T19:59:28  <sipa> combo is perhaps also kind of useful there
464 2021-03-12T19:59:54  <achow101> i suppose it doesn't hurt to keep them around
465 2021-03-12T20:01:25  <sipa> we could add an IsFullDescriptor(), which is true for all but addr/combo/raw, and reject those that aren't in descriptor wallets etc
466 2021-03-12T20:01:26  *** jonatack_ <jonatack_!~jon@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
467 2021-03-12T20:01:26  <jonatack_> help scantxoutset : "EXPERIMENTAL warning: this call may be removed or changed in future releases." -> is it still experimental?
468 2021-03-12T20:01:42  <sipa> i think we can drop that
469 2021-03-12T20:04:10  <jonatack_> ok
470 2021-03-12T20:05:21  *** jonatack <jonatack!~jon@> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
471 2021-03-12T20:13:33  <jonatack_> seems at least several years old indeed
472 2021-03-12T20:13:43  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
473 2021-03-12T20:13:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #21426: rpc: remove scantxoutset EXPERIMENTAL warning (master...rm-scantxoutset-warning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21426
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479 2021-03-12T20:56:23  <mfalg26csq> Short of reading the code, is there is tech description of how nodes choose between 2 competing chains? All I've seen is that the "longest" chain wins, but this seems succeptible to an 'alternate timeline' attack if the difficulties of the chain are ignored
480 2021-03-12T20:56:48  <sipa> most work chain wins
481 2021-03-12T20:56:56  <sipa> if there is a tie, the first-received tip wins
482 2021-03-12T20:57:04  <mfalg26csq> Thank you, that's what I was hoping (that sum of difficulty of chains was used)
483 2021-03-12T20:57:22  <sipa> the sum-of-difficulties is generally actually referred to as "work"
484 2021-03-12T20:59:40  <mfalg26csq> Ok, so I just need to mine a block 2 with a perfect 0 hash, got it
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486 2021-03-12T21:05:53  <achow101> what's the signet faucet to use?
487 2021-03-12T21:06:36  <sipa> i've used https://signet.bc-2.jp/ before
488 2021-03-12T21:06:46  <achow101> ok
489 2021-03-12T21:07:13  <achow101> doesn't like taproot addresses :(
490 2021-03-12T21:07:59  <sipa> yeah, no bech32m yet
491 2021-03-12T21:09:27  <achow101> sipa: what happens if I open a wallet with a tr() descriptor (made using #21365) on master?
492 2021-03-12T21:09:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21365 | Basic Taproot signing support for descriptor wallets by sipa · Pull Request #21365 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
493 2021-03-12T21:09:44  <sipa> achow101: it'll fail to start
494 2021-03-12T21:09:50  <sipa> complaining about an invalid descriptor
495 2021-03-12T21:09:59  <achow101> not an assert though, right?
496 2021-03-12T21:10:04  <sipa> i don't think so
497 2021-03-12T21:10:11  <achow101> ok
498 2021-03-12T21:10:23  <achow101> at least we don't need more wallet flags
499 2021-03-12T21:11:17  <sipa> 1/72057594037927936*(3*sqrt(273548757304312537) + 1591853137)^2 - 4775559411/36028797018963968*sqrt(273548757304312537) - 2497967612757776801/36028797018963968
500 2021-03-12T21:11:20  <sipa> eh
501 2021-03-12T21:11:21  <sipa> $ ./src/bitcoin-cli -signet loadwallet taptest
502 2021-03-12T21:11:21  <sipa> error code: -1
503 2021-03-12T21:11:21  <sipa> error message:
504 2021-03-12T21:11:21  <sipa> map::at
505 2021-03-12T21:11:42  <sipa> not very nice...
506 2021-03-12T21:11:43  <achow101> very useful...
507 2021-03-12T21:12:03  <sipa> 2021-03-12T21:10:55.497048Z [taptest] Invalid descriptor: tr(0250929b74c1a04954b78b4b6035e97a5e078a5a0f28ec96d547bfee9ace803ac0,0:pk(tpubD6NzVbkrYhZ4YbFiqpxK
508 2021-03-12T21:12:06  <sipa> 8jXYwcoQvVqqYXHL6Bi5mh4LHH4xTHGcRC5oUxyTy2f2rw4cfwKtAHDMEb6iGGF6npyueD4CqZuDmnQRH1XGUAH)) is not a valid descriptor function: iostream error
509 2021-03-12T21:12:09  <sipa> in debug log
510 2021-03-12T21:12:46  <achow101> well at least it errored at the right spot
511 2021-03-12T21:13:49  <achow101> sipa: InferDescriptor is not inferring taproot descriptors
512 2021-03-12T21:13:59  <sipa> achow101: that's very much expected
513 2021-03-12T21:14:00  <achow101> "desc": "addr(bcrt1prs7pxymu7jhsptzjlwlqnk8jyg5qmq4sdlc3rwcy7pd3ydz92xjqwvarla)#77fphkae",
514 2021-03-12T21:14:02  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/77 | Automate Windows builds · Issue #77 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
515 2021-03-12T21:14:05  <achow101> oh
516 2021-03-12T21:14:14  <sipa> TODO:
517 2021-03-12T21:14:15  <sipa> * Inferring tr() descriptors from outputs (given sufficient information).
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539 2021-03-12T22:41:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dongcarl opened pull request #21427: depends: Fix id_string invocations (master...2021-03-fix-build_id_construction) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21427
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